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Tip-In: "Bad Meets Worse" - Raptors Beat Wizards in Battle of Draft Lottery Contenders


The Raps got the win, but as the HQ notes, it's hard to get too excited about beating the Wizards...

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Fact: The Toronto Raptors are not a good basketball team.

Fact: The Washington Wizards are even worse.

It's these two facts that I think Raptors' fans need to keep in mind when pouring over last night's 106 to 89 win over said Washington Wizards club.

Because although the Dinos turned on the O taps last night to account for over 100 points, not to mention free pizza for fans in attendance in Toronto, I'm not sure there's a lot to get too excited about in this win.

Simply put, a bad team beat a team that was even worse, and while there were some nice individual performances, which we'll get to in a second, the clock resets itself Sunday, when the Raps turn around and face in essence the reciprocal of the Wizards, the Miami Heat.

To me this was one of those games that was going to be a W on the schedule.

Not that it was impossible for Washington to beat Toronto, in fact that already happened earlier this season. But moreso that over a large sample of games, the Toronto Raptors were going to beat the Washington Wizards, more often than not.

The Raps are simply a better team than the Wizards, although the word "better" is obviously used loosely here, considering that as noted to start this post, we're talking about two teams that should hardly be classified as "good" basketball teams.

But in last night's contest, Toronto did enough "good" things, to win the game, quite easily too I might add, by the time this one was all done.

Good things like attack a weak Wizards' interior. Toronto put up 68 points in the paint, and Washington's only answer was to come back down the floor and launch jump shots, which they hit to the tune of 38 per cent.

Good things like out-work Washington on the glass, out-rebounding the Wizards 61 to 37, including 23 to 11 in the offensive rebounding department. Again, Washington had no answer here.

And more good things like get to the free throw line 28 times.

Now the team is still struggling to make said free-throws, they hit on only 19 of those 28 attempts, but the club was averaging under 21 attempts a game coming into this one so 28 is a nice step in the right direction.

And a necessary direction I'll add.

One of the "bad things" on this night was a propensity to settle for jump shots at times, something that happened at the start of the third quarter, allowing the Wizards to get right back in the game.

But to their credit, Toronto switched things up, got back to what had been working, and never looked back en route to the win.

Dwane Casey deserves a healthy dosage of kudos here because not only did he remove DeMar DeRozan in effort to go back inside, thereby using a line-up of Linas Kleiza, Ed Davis and Amir Johnson, but he also did this to negate the plan of attack Washington had been using so successfully during that time period; post-up and attack DeMar DeRozan off the bounce.

(Sidebar - Not going to pour over DeMar's struggles once more here, but suffice to say that it's never good when the opposing team is game-planning to attack your supposed best player on D.)

In any event, back inside the Raps went, and in particular, the hustle and energy of Davis and Amir Johnson were too much for the Wizards to handle, and back to the win column Toronto went.

Fact: The Toronto Raptors are not a good basketball team.

Fact: The Washington Wizards are even worse.

But let's take it back to these two statements once more.

While it was great to see Toronto's adjustments pay off, and great to see certain players like Amir Johnson (18 points, 13 rebounds) get back on track individually, it's admittedly hard for me to recap this game and not think that had this been pretty much any other team, the end result would likely have been much different. Washington gave Toronto its best punch early in the third quarter, and when that didn't work, they folded.

Suddenly the Wiz were left with players like Nick Young firing up shots without even a glance at teammates, Jordan Crawford doing the same, and John Wall speeding towards his next turnover.

There's some talent on this Washington team, but wow do they have a ways to go. At various points last night I felt like I was watching a game at the local Y and I had a tough time believing some of the sequences that were meant to pass for offensive and defensive executions.

And again the Raptors were by no means innocent here.

There were about four straight possessions last night where after missing an inappropriate jump shot, the Raptors would rebound the ball, run the ball back down the court, and take very similar type of shots.

And back and forth we went, two lottery bound teams, fighting for an edge on the NBA relevancy scale.

The Raps won on this occasion, but games like Wednesday night's against Boston and this Sunday's against Miami I'd argue are a lot more important in terms of gauging this team's growth and development.

Last night's game was a bit like an old WWF Saturday match.

Sure the "One Man Gang" won his match.

But he was fighting Raymond Rougeau.

477682-raymond_rougeau_medium

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Franchise- you’re comparing the Wizards to one half of the greatest tag teams of all time? Really? Ray Rougeau and his porn stach, along with the Mountie, were just such fine technical wrestlers ;-) There is NO way that fatso the One Man Gang could ever beat him and neither could Akeem, the African Dream.

Great post BTW. I agree both teams suck. I was curious to know if you think Amir’s benching sent him a message, which is why he played more aggressive last night? Or do you think he was lucky to be going up against a team with a weak front court. Devlin’s “Amir is back” screams were a bit over zealous #justsayin’

by Turksucks on Feb 4, 2012 11:08 AM EST reply actions  

The Raptors Are Not Really That Bad When Healthy

Even with no Bayless and Kleiza for only a couple of conditioning games the Raptors are 6 – 7 when Bargnani plays.

Is a healthy Raptors squad where all their key rotation guys play a .500 team? We don’t know but they did win on the road in Phoenix and Utah playing with a complete roster.

To say that the Raptors suck is IMO totally inaccurate.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Safe to start?

Ya I’m interested in people’s thoughts on Amir as well as I picked up off waivers in my fantasy league late last night.

Do folks think last night’s performance was simply Amir profiting from a terrible Wiz team or has Amir broken out of his funk and put his “personal problems” and injuries behind him? Debating whether or not to start him Sunday against the Heat…

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 1:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Amir Has Been Outplayed By McGee For Most Of Their Respective Careers

when Amir has played the Wiz.

Your guess is as good as anyone’s as to which Amir will show up against the Heat or anyone for that matter.

High risk high reward fantasy player.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks Buddah

Would you start him?

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 1:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Rather Than Gray?

I would pefer to see Amir play consistently off the bench before retuning him to the starting lineup. Casey will give Amir 25 – 30 mpg off of the bench if Amir is playing well. So he will get his minutes if he plays well.

At least with Gray we know what to expect i.e. mediocrity game in and game out. Gray is consistently mediocre so Casey can plan ahead for each game knowing what to expect from Gray. At this point I say continue to start Gray even against Joel Anthony who is not that big or strong.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

No as per above, for my fantasy team

Who cares about the Raptors, I’m talking about my fantasy team here! LOL : )

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

If you don’t have to bench anyone to do so sure. Truth is though if you are relying on Amir your team needs serious help.

by McGateway on Feb 4, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

But obviously Amir is a fringe player on my team. Hence the question of if I should play him at all……

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 3:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

don't play him tmrw night

But I love Amir.

The heat’s interior defence is daunting for Amir to crack and Udanis Haslem is no slouch and I expect those two to match up and each play well but neither to be statistically impressive.

by defensive rap on Feb 5, 2012 4:14 AM EST up reply actions  

YEAH THAT was a good post

Raptor fans complain abt this team but what if we were Wizard fans? What I’ve seen from the Raptors so far is they are easily better than the lowest ranked teams, so/so against the middle of the pack teams and not at all capable of beating the better teams.

Where they are in this rebuild is becoming clearer week by week. They are basically one good role player and one superstar away from regular playoff appearances.

by Member29 on Feb 4, 2012 11:45 AM EST reply actions  

That would be easy

The Cavaliers are just one Lebron away from winning the east. I guess you can be a bit more specific. When you have JV in next year you:
improve by leaps and bounds your starting 5
get basically a rid of Jamaal Magloire (hope the spelling is right)
loose Aaron Grey
gain depth on the bench by having Amir been the first big off the bench

if you score on an HB or MKG (more the former than the latter) your passing lanes become already wide open and also our fellow DD can find out life can be good as a third option.

then you are one Elite PG away for seriously trying to go to the second round and likely improving every year.

by renato on Feb 4, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s two big “ifs” in your equation there.

1) JV: I’m very hopeful he will become a solid NBA player and borderline All-star and the early returns on his play internationally seem to suggest this is possible if not probable. However, he is still very young and has yet to play a game against NBA players. So to count on anything from him in the next 2 – 3 years is risky.

2) That Bargnani will maintain his level of play pre-injury for the rest of his career. I hope for Raptors fans sake that he does. I’m not sold yet, but can understand that others are.

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

true

I kept my expectation low however and just thought JV as a screen/pick and roll player better than AJ which is not too much to ask

by renato on Feb 4, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, but until lately, Amir was a pretty solid screen and roll player. Especially when paired with Jose.

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 1:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

P.S. its lose not loose. Loose means the opposite of tight. Lose means the being a Raptor Fan

by McGateway on Feb 4, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

It Will Be Interesting To See If Jonas Starts Next Season For The Raptors

He is now starting for Rytas but it is highly unlikely that he will start for Team Lithuania this summer both in the Olympic qualifying round in VZ and the Olympics if Team Lithuania gets in.

My guess is that Jonas will come off the bench at least initially for the Raptors. He is still too light in the pants to start against bigger NBA centers. Amir is heavier and stronger than Jonas at this point. Not saying that Amir should start next season or even this season unless he can start to show consistency.

The point is that Amir is heavier and stronger than Jonas and Amir still can not physically handle most starting Centers in the league. So I find it a little hard to imagine that Jonas could at this point or even next season.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I am choked that the one game I miss this season is a big Raptors win...

Not to mention some key evaluation data missed out on…

So choked…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Feb 4, 2012 2:11 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

um...no way

sorry.
I know how much you love Amir.
And I know he seems to have done well in the past, but I was not around to watch.
But I do know this…he ain’t no center.
He is another Okafor…great body and very likely a good PF…but in the real NBA, and especially in playoff baskeyball…he will get killed.
Both of these players and their builds are simply not big enough to be centers.
And I simply need to ask forgveness when requesting answers to why he was not here for 2 weeks and what happened to the ingury and personal problems in one night.
I must apply a little reality here.

If this team of fans feels safe adding him back as the starting center, then ya all are much more forgiving than I.

sorry…

by ppellico on Feb 4, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

escuse me?

what in hell are you talking about?
Can I ask wht makes you say such a thing?

by ppellico on Feb 4, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I Don' Consider Him A NBA Center

I think that is pretty clear.

He is a big body who takes up space with IMO mediocre NBA level talents. I would never start him on a NBA team by choice. He is a desperation starter when you don’t have any NBA level Big men on your team who weigh 270 pounds or more except for him.

We all have our opinions and that is mine.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

well then...lets get rolling

everybody here is a stast bball person, right?
I am not.
However…you tell me that IF you are going to contunually call Gray mediocre, then I insist upon the facts.
Give me the games played stats….and then compare to Amir.
I have always said Gray is NOT a starter, unless emergency calls for it.
However…Amir is never a center…bench or not.
He can do well at times because of being athletic…but in no way would anybody draft him for the center position.

Gray is a center.
Perhaps not a star center…but he has done great work for NO and now this team.
In fact, he has performed as required each time out….well, almost except for fouls.
But the foul situation is not always a stat you can hang around his neck.
He is put in to stop bleeding and hold the middle.
If your teammates are not helping…not waiting on you picks to set…you get punished.
But any real ball watcher knows who caused the foul.

Now all…is anybody here telling me Gray is not a real center over Amir?
The compare the stats this year between both…then tell, if you are right…I will admit such.
Until then, yes….it is all blind faith love.

If this is the common thought here…then I give up discussing the position with ya all.

by ppellico on Feb 4, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

If His Work At NO Was So Great

They would have kept him.

It’s not like he is making very much money.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

see...this is where having information makes fan talk less fun

Buddahfan…it was Gray that opted out, not that NO did not want him back.
Look, while you were up here getting your spirits crushed…I was doing likewise with NOH.
Gray was in fact a team and fan favorite.
Once he returned from his broken leg and got into game playing shape…he was a very good player.

Again…I want Amir to do well.
I even want him as out starting center…IF he can play against bigger centers.

Right now he shows me he cannot.
And he owes me. He owes me, a fan, an expalination as to where he went for these past weeks.
I simply will not buy the pouting and ingury reasons and that they were so fixed in one night against the Wizards.

I aint that stupid or forgiving.

by ppellico on Feb 5, 2012 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

i suck at spelling...but I aint stupid

hope you all can at least give me that…..:{

and again I ask anybody here…
Are you suggesting Amir is more a center than Gray?
Because I need to know what type of thinking I am dealing with here.

IMO…Amir will never be considered a center by any team in the NBA.

by ppellico on Feb 5, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!

Buddahfan and Amir Johnson vs. ppellico and Aaron Gray!

The battle of the SUPERFANS! This could be epic!

Gentlemen return to your corners and come out fighting!

Got my popcorn… and GO!

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

EPIC

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Feb 4, 2012 2:34 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

It's 'BREAKING BAD' - Raptors edition....

Up in the skyscrape, me and my apes, bake cakes.

by Jenge on Feb 4, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahaha!

Buddah is Gus, ppelico is “Heizenberg”. Or the other way around? ; )

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 3:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I Would Much Rather Have

DJ starting at Center for the Raptors than Amir or Dorian Gray. LOL. At least DJ is a legit NBA Center with talent.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

i give up

no more such nonesense about this…

by ppellico on Feb 4, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

No, no, no!

Please keep this going! Buddah said some crazy stuff ’bout yo moma! LOL

Just kidding guys. So this one ends in a draw. I’m SURE there will be a rematch. I’m going to set up a Gray Vs. Amir heavy Weight fan post and charge for Pay Per View!

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Scouting Saturday

Gonna be watching a lot of college ball all day today. Every player in the top 15 of the mocks is getting a look today.

Right now about to watch Jonas V in action tho.

by Member29 on Feb 4, 2012 11:59 AM EST reply actions  

btw

hoopsworld in their mock draft have the raptors getting Lamb with the 10th pick

by renato on Feb 4, 2012 12:40 PM EST reply actions  

Lamb Would Be An Interesting Pick

I am pretty sure BC will draft the best player available when the Raptors draft regardless of position. Will that be Lamb? It could be.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Raptors need a top pick or they’re going to be stuck on a treadmill of mediocrity. The Charlotte’s and Washington’s of the world will grab top-flight talent while the Raptors continue to draft the likes of DeRozan and Davis. Regardless of what you think of either of those two, they aren’t game changers (which is what you get when drafting 9th or 10th).

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Feb 4, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

indeed

Althought I cannot bring myself to think the Raptors will pick 10th

by renato on Feb 4, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

and even less

projecting lamb as a 10th pick

by renato on Feb 4, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Its Usually Better To Have A Higher Draft Pick

I don’t see the Raptors on any treadmill to mediocrity. Their key players except for Jose and Barbosa are way to young to say that.

The Raptors have shown when healthy playing all their rotation players that they can win on the road against WC teams.

I would say at this point that when healthy the Raptors are close to a .500 team which is a lot better than last season. They are still young enough to improve even without factoring Jonas in. Raptors fans shouldn’t expect Jonas to come to Toronto next season and lead them to the Finals in 2012-13. LOL IMO it will take a couple of seasons before he can make a consistently major positive impact.

Fans, especially younger ones tend to be too impatient as do most who have and now trade rather invest in the stock market. They want that quit profit. Believe me I learned the hard way that the way to make money investing is to invest and not trade.

I have held my major investment for close to five years through ups and downs and continue to hold it longer. Lo and behold, last year they paid their first dividend in over 10 years last year and it was a pretty damn good one to boot. On top of that they are planning to pay a much larger one this year. I used that dividend to invest in a Cloud company and will use this year’s dividend to add to that position in the Cloud company. This could turn out to be a “10 bagger” in investment parlance, for me, if I hold it for three to five years which I plan to. The Cloud is where its all heading computer wise.

Patience is the key. Of course eventually even the most patient person decides enough is enough and it is time to move on.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you crazy? 6-7 against mediocre teams does not make for a playoff team. Remember, some of those games were against the Cleveland Cavaliers, Phoenix Suns and a Utah team that were missing their best player. Not to make light of the Raptors victory against Utah but come on. They also lost to this same Washington team earlier this season (who were winless at the time). People need to actually look at who the Raptors have beaten instead of just looking at win loss. Yes there are some positive signs but to suggest this team is borderline playoff material with Barney in the lineup is just ludicrous.

by McGateway on Feb 4, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Good Playoff Team?

What are you talking about?

The standard for measuring the progress of this roster/team is against the one that won 22 games last season not a good playoff team. SMH

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

When you suggest this team is a .500ish team you are suggesting they are playoff capable as in the East, the 7th and 8th seeds traditionally are sub .500 teams. I know you live in the West and may not have understood what you were saying so I let it go at that.

by McGateway on Feb 5, 2012 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I Wasn't Even Thinking About The Playoffs

when I mentioned the Raptors being a .500 team.

Thanks for mentioning them.

Two things are facts

1. The Raptors are 6 – 7 with Bargnani and many of those games without Bayless and Kleiza

2. The Raptors with Bargnani, Bayless and Kleiza playing won in Phoenix and Utah in consecutive games.

You can take it from there and become a pretzel maker with it if you like. LOL

by Buddahfan on Feb 5, 2012 3:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Buddah, not sure why you keep resting on those two wins. Pheonix is 9 and 14 and 5 and 6 at home, so not a great triumph there and the Utah win came in OT with Al Jefferson not even playing…

by MAS11 on Feb 5, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Too many ifs......

on this team to project anything into next year. I think that’s the toughest part about being a raps fan this year.
Even with Bargs you can’t be certain that this is truly an indication of the type of player he’ll be going forward.
After that you’ve got a bunch of variables in derozan, davis, bayless, JV, JJ, etc.
Personally, I just want to see at least one of these so called core pieces take a Bargnani-esque leap over the next 40 games and see this team get some legit wins over a few contending teams, like Franchise said.

by Respondeat Superior on Feb 4, 2012 1:01 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

Jonas looked good today

He put on some weight for sure. Moves well and plays hard. He needs a lot of work overall but still u can see that potential everyone is talking abt. If he develops as expected he could be a good starter in the NBA for years.

by Member29 on Feb 4, 2012 1:39 PM EST reply actions  

Watched The First Quarter and Turned If Off After That

The team that they beat sucks. Yes there are bad basketball teams in Russia. LOL

I don’t think “he needs a lot of work overall” He does need to refine his skills.

What he needs most to do is get heavier and stronger which he will. He also needs more experience along with refining his skill set. But his skill level is already NBA starting level and he is at a lot more advanced level on offense than D12 and Bynum were at a comparable age.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Watching Ohio State vs Wisconsin

Sullinger reminds me of Zack Randolf without the headcase issues. That’s a huge compliment in my mind. Imagine a Sullinger Vallanciunis front court?! That’s like having a Randolf (minus nucllehead issues) and Noah (with more offensive potential if he pans out). That’s monstrous!

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 2:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

That implies a shuffling of the deck chairs or trades of our current glut of PFs. Sullinger, Ed, Amir and Bargnani. I could see it if we drafted Sullinger then traded our newly valuable Bargnani for an elite wingman. That could work

by Barflies on Feb 4, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Oops,

that was a reply to Buddahfan’s comment: “I Don’t Think Sullinger Is Near As Big As Z-Bo”

by MAS11 on Feb 4, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Sullinger Does Not 280 Pounds

He lost a ton of weight.

(Jared) Sullinger dropped 20 pounds to get down to 265 and lowered his body-fat percentage from 16.7 to 12.1.

Randolph is listed at 260 but my guess is that he is a bit heavier than that or at least he used to be. LOL

Okay, I will grant you that maybe they are close to same weight.

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Barnes looked good again today

All of Kentucky looking good so far. Would like us to find a way to pick up Teague. Je’s gonna be a starting calibre PG for sure. I suspect his draft stock will rise in March.

by Member29 on Feb 4, 2012 6:49 PM EST reply actions  

Rytas Romped 101 - 62

Jonas had 21 points and 9 rebounds

by Buddahfan on Feb 4, 2012 9:05 PM EST reply actions  

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