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Ping Pong Program

So, does the Ping Pong Program make an instant fix? No, but can you win a championship without a high draft pick? Yes, but you need to luck out with a sleeper/highschooler turned superstar ala Dirk who got drafted at 9th and Kobe at 13th but never won a championship without a high pick by his side (Gasol @ 3 and Shaq at 1).

Aside from them and the 03/04 Pistons who always manage to ruin every theory I've ever had, even though they didn't have a "superstar", they did have a non home grown high pick in Billups (3rd), and a mid of Rip at 7th in his year, no others have won a championship without having a very high draft pick as their focal point (5th or better)

The recent Celts had Garnett and Allen who were both 5s, and Pierce was an asterisk 10th as that was the deepest draft in the NBA history.

Spurs had Duncan, and probably the most number of low round picks integral to their team for a championship team. And in their first run they had the Admiral who was also a #1 pick.

Heat had Wade (5th) and Shaq (1st)

Bulls had Jordan (3rd) and Pippen (5th)

Rockets had Hakeem (1st overall), Kenny Smith (6th)

The 80s Piston had Isiah (2nd)

Showtime Lakers had Kareem (1st) and Magic (1st)

80s Celtics had Bird (6th), McHale (3rd), Parish (8th).

And well that's 30 years of basketball.

Is the Ping Pong program a guarantee? Definitely not, but without getting a couple of high picks, you can forget a shot at a Championship. And most of the high picks were also home grown.

Moving towards success also means it doesn't happen over night. Let's take a look at recent picks:

09 Clippers 19-63 post Blake Griffin 32-50 (when he returned)

07 Bulls 33-49 post Rose 41-41 then 41-41

06 Sonics 31-51 post Durant 20-62, then post Westerbrook 23-59, then Harden 50-32

04 Bucks 30-52 post Bogut 41-41, 42-40, 28-54

03 Magic 21-61 post Howard 36-46 then 36-46, 52-30

02 Cavs 17-65 post Lebron 35-47 then 42-40

None of these teams are Championship teams, and the Magics and Cavs have/had already peaked in their cycle, but a future championship going to the Clips, Bulls or Thunder not only wouldn't surprise me, it's almost expected.

So would I love for the Raps to win this year? Sure, but without some key game changing High Picked players on the roster, I'd rather see more Ping Pongs than not. A team with AB, JV, this years pick and maybe another high pick the year after? Well.. now maybe we'd be in the mix. Unfortunately there are no guarantees and hopefully we won't have peaked by then.

Poll
Are you in Ping Pong Nation?
Yes
22 votes
No
3 votes

25 votes | Poll has closed

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Well...

Not to nitpick, but Celtics kinda bought their way to the championship. Garnett from the Wolves and Allen from the Sonics. Their draft picks were bench players. Not saying it is a bad thing, but there are other ways to do it. Knicks are currently buying their way to a championship by acquiring Melo, Amare, Lin and other players. While their draft picks are good, they aren’t game changing.

Since Raptors aren’t a high market team (like Celtics and Knicks), the best way to acquire players of talent is through the draft. So, yes, I believe in the lottery in the case of the Raptors.

by keepit4real on Feb 20, 2012 6:33 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed.. Since the Raps are very unlikely to ever “sign” a top former top draft who is an impact player, the only way to do it is via the draft. And the only way to draft a high pick is unfortunately via the Ping Pong program.

Agreed.. Since the Raps are very unlikely to ever “sign” a top former top draft who is an impact player, the only way to do it is via the draft. And the only way to draft a high pick is unfortunately via the Ping Pong program.The other unfortunate part is the window for the basketball cycles are also very short, for markets like Toronto. And before anyone gets up in a tizzle about it being in Canada etc., this holds true for many “small” or I’d say alternate markets. Orlando’s window is about to close, Cleveland closed, can argue Hornets never even opened, Portland’s window is starting to close, and we’ll see how long the Thunder’s stay open.

by Ustation on Feb 21, 2012 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

First, let’s not forget that Boston had been in a rebuild for a couple of years and were able to transition high draft picks (Al Jefferson and the 5th pick of that year that ended up being a promising Jeff Green) into Garnett and Allen.

Second, totally agree with the point that in order for a franchise like Toronto to get top tier talent it is going to HAVE to be through the draft. LeBron or Durant are not signing here in any offseason. Also, with the way the CBA is structured now, the Raps will have the advantage to hang on to their “franchise Player” of the future if he is acquired through the draft. The only other option to acquire top talent other than free agency or the draft is through trades and you need assets in order to trade. How do the Raps get these assets to trade? Through the draft.

by MAS11 on Feb 22, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Anyone Who Was A Pistons Fan Back in 2003-04

knows that Billups played at a superstar level that season.

Just because the wingnuts in the sports media have never considered him a superstar does not mean that he wasn’t.

He has been the stating PG on more Conference Finalists than any PG in NBA history with the possible exception of Magic. Not one of those teams with the exception of Denver had another superstar on it. By the way Denver even with Melo never got to the Conference Finals without Billups.

Right now the Clippers are definitely feeling the loss of Billups as they continue to lose close games without him. He isn’t called “Mr. Big Shot” for nothing

by Buddahfan on Feb 21, 2012 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

I read an article (sorry for lack of link, it was a week ago or so) that said the loss of Billups was a blessing for the Clippers...

In the sense that the coach didn’t have the balls to sit Billups in appropriate situations based soley on Billups’ reputation rather than actual production.

Apparently the numbers indicate that Mr. Big Shot actually is very poor at hitting “the big shot” statistically but he refuses to defer to better options most of the time…

The injury gives the coach an excuse to get the backups much needed development minutes and get the ball into a better shooter’s hands in crunch time…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Feb 21, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The Article Is Wrong

The proof is in the winning and losing

The Clippers were 15 – 7 with Billups and 4 – 4 since he went down to injury.

Their four losses have been by 7, 4, 3, and 7 points.

They win at least two of those if he is playing.

by Buddahfan on Feb 21, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Corr

He missed two games early in the season which I had forgot about.

So the Clippers are 14 – 6 with Billups and 5 – 5 without him.

The other loss without him was by 13 to the Bulls.

With Billups in the lineup the Clippers had beaten

Portland
Houston
Miami
Lakers
Dallas
Denver
OKC
Utah at Utah
Orlando

Without him in the lineup the Clippers have lost to

Cavs
Warriors

by Buddahfan on Feb 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it was only pertaining to the "game winning shot" situations, not about the overall picture...

It was a specific grab of information used by the author to dis-prove the “Mr. Big Shot” moniker…

So games he played in where his team has won by more than one or two points weren’t taken into consideration…

I agree the team is better with him available, I think the author did too… He just meant that there are better options for taking a crucial last shot and that the coach didn’t have the guts to tell Chauncey that…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Feb 21, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Billups was very good.. but Superstar?

Well according to his PER 36 that year:

17.2 points, 5.8 Assists, 1.73p @ 38%, overall FG% of 39%, 6FTA @@80% would hardly scream Superstar.

let’s compare to Tony Parker’s 06/07 Year PER 36
20.6 ppg, 6.1 A, 0.2 3pg @ 39%, 52FG%, 5 FTA @ 78%

D. Wade’s Heat 05/06 year though not a true PG PER36
25.4, 6.3A, 0.2 3p@ 17%, 50 FG%, 10 FTA @ 78%

This was Jason Terry’s numbers last year whom I don’t consider a superstar:
18.2, 4.7A, 1.8 3p @ 38%, 45%, 3.0FTA @ 45%

by Ustation on Feb 21, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That 39% really stuck out like a sore thumb.

by Ustation on Feb 21, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

You said he played at a “superstar” level that season. I don’t know how many superstars wasn’t in the top 5 of any positive league categories, didn’t make the all star game, didn’t make any of the 3 All NBA team, but was the bottom 1/3 of Shooting percentages.

Your bar for superstar must be pretty low. Hey but at least we know your point of reference.

Run the iso play for the final shot, don’t look for the pass off but make the shot = star.. then ok.

by Ustation on Feb 26, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

then Demare Derozan this year’s PER 36 @ 16.4 ppg @ 41% FG must be a superstar too. Wow we have a few superstars, including JC and Bayless.

by Ustation on Feb 26, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

This year is about

Cheering for the Raptors to win every game as you watch it, but seeing the silver lining after each loss in the shape of ping pong balls.

by siggian on Feb 21, 2012 10:41 PM EST reply actions  

re: Draft Strategy

In terms of the draft, I’m hoping more along the lines that we get the right breaks (either players declaring or players dropping) that we draft a player who’s further on the development curve then DeRozan was when he came in. There are players that come into the league with a well rounded skillset, ie Lebron or James Harden (same year and freshman status as DeRozan). At the very least, they are able to point at a few skills that they can hang their hat on.

What I will say is that if your going to bet on an athlete, better to do it at the start of the rebuild then towards the end. That way, even with the longer development time, he still (hopefully) reaches his peak alongside those that came after him.

by Yardly on Feb 22, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I think for me the disappointment from some of our draft picks (and other team's picks I thought were bonehead moves)

Is that too often guys are drafted based on “athleticism” hoping that they can be taught the “mechanics” of playing the game and turn out to be a good player…

For me though, I would much rather have a guy who is less physically gifted and has more natural talent…

If a guy needs to be taught the mechanics of basketball, he will be a mechanical player…

Steve Nash isn’t physically gifted, he has a natural talent and his game is able to just flow without the delays of thinking of the process of playing basketball… He just plays…

Chris Paul isn’t an elite physical specimen, but he’s one of (if not the one) best point guards in the league…

His game just flows…

Sure there are your Kobe Bryant’s and Lebron James’ who have BOTH the natural ability and the athleticism, but these guys are top 50 All Time Hall of Fame type guys…

I love that DeMar is “athletic” and “quick” and a “high-flyer” but if he can’t dribble and chew gum isn’t the rest meaningless?

The one thing that DeMar seems to be a pure natural at is throwing his arms down at his sides and slumping in a pout when the refs miss a call… The rest of his game he has to think about too much…

I would much rather have a basketball player who has the basics nailed and one “pure” aspect to his game (even if he is physically limited) than someone who has the right body but needs to learn how to play the game…

By the time the mind catches up to the body, the physical attributes are likely declining anyways…

In short, I hope they draft for skill more than potential in the future…

If the guys has both, great! Let’s ride him into the Hall of Fame…

But if it’s one or the other, I’m sick of have physically gifted athletes who need to be taught to be ballers…

I would rather have a baller right out the gate…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Feb 22, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

re: balancing proven performence and skills with the Ridiculous Upside

Drafting unproven potential over boring track record is also likely position specific as well. I don’t think anyone would draft a PG high who was all tools and no tool box. A large part of the position is about setting the table for everyone else, and being the proverbial extension of the coach on the floor. Would also think that things like intangibles factor in more heavily with a PG then with other positions. ie Did Rajon Rondos rep as disruptive presence in Kentucky contribute to his fall in the draft (to the low 20s) when he did have some solid physical tools for the position?

When we drafted DeRozan, would guess that Gerald Henderson and Terrance Williams, due to being athletic upperclassman, were closer to that balance between proven skill and athleticism. Does BC hope for a do over? Henderson was athletic yet slightly undersized, and also didn’t have a great dribble at the time. Williams had some character red flags, which manifested themselves into playing his way to the D-League and getting shipped off to Houston. BC (given his previous drafting record for lottery picks) doesn’t seem to be the type that would trade a lower ceiling for a higher floor when it comes to prospect projections. He’s all in, and is picky on character (drafting good players and good people comment re Jonas V) and health (a vibe I get from past public comments and the teams draft decisions in general, Jermain O’Neal excepted :-D

Demar was a gamble, with the physical tools you can’t teach and the hope that we could speed up the development he didn’t stick around college to get. I hope they’ve set parameters for what they need to see to offer him an extension, and at what number. Being speculative on a player on the hope they get it “someday” is a recipe for a salary cap albatross. I am also VERY wary of how low his stats other then points are (steals, blocks, rebounds, assists). Wing players that can’t handle the ball reliably (see Johnson, James) usually make up for it by making a significant contribution in the aforementioned “hustle stats”. The fact DeRozan can’t apply his athletic gifts to this area is very troubling. The team brain trust has to look themselves in the mirror and ask whether DeRozan is capable of keeping up the defensive responsibilities required of him on a Casey led team. Especially with Casey looking to introduce even more complexity starting next season, with TWO rookies to add to the fold.

by Yardly on Feb 25, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

This Year's Draft Is Looking A Lot Weaker Than Most Thought It Would

Once you get beyond the first five or six the drop off appears to be pretty significant. Only time will tell.

Will the lottery picks in this year’s draft have a collectively better NBA career than last year’s lottery picks? Again, only time will tell.

by Buddahfan on Feb 24, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

re: Anthony Davis

Marcus Camby had a similar kind of buzz around him when he came into the league. Player that was a guard who’s height shot up in high school, potential hybrid of guard coordination with bigman size, quickness, shotblocker, etc. Things didn’t turn out quite as well for him in the first few years of his career.

I would guess that when one shots up in size that much, some aspects of their prior guard development are lost forever. The players that “play like guards” on the court have usually grown at a slower pace, and thus aren’t trying to suddenly transfer all their old skills to this new, ungainly body.

Were I a GM, I would be asking my consultants and doctors exactly how much growing does A.Davis have left, and how likely is he to fill out his frame. Marcus Camby is funny in that he was able to use the nickname “Mr.Glass” with two different meanings, depending on which part of his career you were referring to.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cambyma01.html

by Yardly on Feb 22, 2012 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

Billups "Mr. Big Shot"

That moniker has always been with him since he won a Finals MVP with the Pistons. And he forces too many game winning shots that are not quality looks. It is one of his only flaws and it is interesting that you point it out in your post.

Steve Fisher takes game winning shots that are wide open because Kobe. Billups used to take game winning shots and make them, when he was younger and on a well rounded team, but lately he is forcing them. He needs to adjust to his new role on this team and wait patiently for CP to get him the ball if he’s open. He can no longer think he is the primary scorer in late game situations.

by defensive rap on Feb 22, 2012 2:23 PM EST reply actions  

Zach Rosen

sleeper pick or he goes undrafted and the Raptors show interest to bring him to camp. The kid can play and his bball IQ is fantastic. He plays on a horrible team in the same division as Jeremy Lin did and his stats are better than Lin’s. Better this year in his senior year and better for a four year average as well. Just a bit better btw.

The Raps scouts should give him a serious look for a late second round pick.

by defensive rap on Feb 22, 2012 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

Are The Raptors Intentionally Keeping Bargnani Out Of The Lineup

in order to get more ping-pong balls?

If they do it correctly, the NBA will never be able to penalize the Raptors for it. What if the Raptors team doctor is a member of the ping-pong people? Then he can tell BC and Casey that Bargnani isn’t ready to play. Bargnani doesn’t mind, he is still collecting his check after playing hard for 13 games.

Of course if BC asks for second opinion this other doctor would also have to be a ping-pong person and then the Raptors are clear of any NBA penalty. I doubt the NBA would have their own doctor bother to exam Bagnani.

The Ping-Pong People conspiracy?

You betcha’

by Buddahfan on Feb 24, 2012 3:29 PM EST reply actions  

Concerns about having brought him back too soon the first time is likely factoring heavily in this. Perhaps a parallel to Bosh and his plantar fascitis issues? While no expert in those types of injuries, perhaps they share the quality of being ones that can become chronic if they aren’t given the time to fully heal?

by Yardly on Feb 25, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

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