RHQ Monday Poll - How Do You Feel About the Raptors' Rebuilding Efforts?
by Adam Francis on Feb 20, 2012 8:01 AM EST
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Yesterday, HQ correspondent Scott Campsall wrote at length about the rebuild the Charlotte Bobcats are in the midst of. In many ways, it's not much different than the process the Toronto Raptors are using, as both teams are looking to stockpile draft talent in hopes of creating a young and talented core to build around.
However which team would you put further ahead on the "rebuilding ladder?"
The Bobcats with potential key cogs like Kemba Walker and Bismack Biyombo?
Or the Raptors, with longer term, but potentially more impressive future studs like Jonas Valanciunas?
The answer might have been obvious to many even a few weeks ago but of late? Toronto has lost nine of their last 11 games, the ninth coming at the hands of the aforementioned 'Cats, who have but four wins on the season themselves. The loss means the Raps have ended significant losing streaks now to the likes of New Jersey, Charlotte and Washington, three teams with a combined record of 20 and 75.
However record doesn't necessarily reflect how solid a rebuilding plan a team may have so here's today's poll question. How do you feel about Toronto's plan so far?
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How do you feel about Toronto’s plan so far?
How do you feel about the Raptors’ “rebuild” so far?
Two questions with two answers for me. I like the plan and believe in the plan. Build through the draft to add to the young nucleus that is in place, save cap space to use when the time is right. As far has the execution of the plan, it is dissapointing to see the lack of development from players such as DeRozan, Davis and even Amir Johnson. Three young players that were expected to be a big part of the rebuild that have yet to improve their play and may in fact have regressed this season.
by Al Bundy is my hero on Feb 20, 2012 9:17 AM EST reply actions
I voted for not impressed though I wasn’t really expecting much this year. I have been really disappointed by some of the so called “pieces” this team has and I am very worried that this rebuild technically hasn’t started yet. I think we may need to move our only truly tradeable piece (Barney) while he has value and literally start from scratch. Terrible. Just Terrible.
I voted 'ok'
but much like Al and McG, it probably doesn’t really fit what I believe. My biggest problem isn’t with the rebuild or losing, but rather with having lost all faith in the guy who is doing the rebuilding.
1) BC’s greatest strength is supposed to be in his ability to draft…. yet we have a #1 who took 6 years to become a net positive on the floor, a #9 who has become the newest liability on the floor, and a ‘steal’ at #13 who is more or less invisible. Jonas may be a saving grace, but he hasn’t yet even stepped foot in the NBA.
2) his FA signings, major trades and general team building/planning has, atleast in Toronto, been a flop. This is his 2nd rebuild, and its coming about 2-3 years later than it should have.
3) he is building around Bargnani, who to his (Barg’s) credit is having without question his best season ever. Yet if Bosh wasn’t good enough to build around (BC’s own words) how in the world is Bargnani? You never would have heard this from me pre-Dec 2011 but Bargnani is a serious asset… but I don’t think BC views him as anything less than the foundation to what he’s doing.
4) The team is filled with one dimensional, tweener-esk, out of position players. And the one guy who fills his role well, Jose, is #1 on the trading block or possible amnesty candidate. Don’t get me wrong I’m not against Jose being traded, specifically if he can net a nice return, but I also picture him as an ideal back up or low minute starter going forward.
5) made a nice hiring in Casey, but I am bit concerned that he may turn out to be the next Larry Brown. Top notch coach, but more suited for an experienced team than a rebuilding team (not trying to knock Casey here because I give him a lot of credit for what he’s done in terms of the team’s approach to games, and its obvious he doesn’t have much talent to work with)
Now ofcourse the trade deadline hasn’t hit, there is a draft where the Raps should be high in the lottery, and a FA period coming up… so alot can change. But in my ideal world Demar, Barbossa, Bargnani, Bayless, and Amir or Ed are all on the trading block to net more picks. We go into next year with young guys getting alot of minutes, with some quality experienced players (that means not Butler, Carter or Magloire) filling in with odd minutes here and there. Toronto uses its cap space to take a bad contract and more picks with it. Colangelo doesn’t ‘do little’ this year and then go all in this offseason expecting everything to turn out because ‘on paper’ he has built his greatest team ever.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Feb 20, 2012 9:54 AM EST reply actions
I agree with your view of BC’s track record and future with this team. His inability to hit a homerun is killing this franchise. The key difference between quality GM and average or below average GM is their ability to find quality in the draft in harder positions which is an area that BC has failed miserably. Even if you want to give BC a mulligan on Barney because of the poor quality of the draft class, you still have to ask how he drafted such a long shot player in Derozan when there were so many quality players (granted mostly PGs but that was still a position of need) left. Alabi is another example. I am not ready to throw Alabi out like some are but he isn’t even getting minutes when only Gray and Magloire are the only other true centers on the team. That may be a coaching issue but we have seen BC fire coaches for not playing his players before. He needs to move Barbosa for just about anything at this stage and free up minutes for younger players (Forbes for example) and if he blows that opportunity I will just give up on this team until the GM is replaced.
re: Barbosa
As long as Bayless and DeRozan are getting their minutes, I don’t see any other younger players who are logjammed in the swing rotatation. Yes, my tune will change if a swing is drafted in the upcoming draft, but in the hear and now, showcase Barbosa and if we can’t exact value for him, keep him. I don’t see viable inhouse options that can take his minutes. Someway, somehow, another SG would need to be added to the roster to pick up the slack and act as injury insurance. As a team we are skewed heavily towards the front court in terms of players that actually have game.
re: Roster Turnover
I think that Rasual Butler, unless he’s doing some great mentoring behind the scenes, should be turned over in a larger deal once we’re confident that Kleiza isn’t having any lingering issues after knee surgery. With Linas on board, there’s some NBA experience at the SF spot. Even if a trade doesn’t come about, bring up someone from the NBDL with promise, and let them pick up Caseys system in practise. Like the balance of young players vs old on the roster, but there is no sense in wasting a roster spot when we’re trying to build potential depth at all positions.
Great points
Hence why it was truly a missed opportunity this summer when BC could have hired someone to compliment his “strengths” (whatever they may be…..) or bolster the front office. Instead, he went with the typical BC yes man in Stephanski (a career yes man behind Rod Thorn), a guy who according to all reports is borderline useless.
J.Valančiūnas: Mace will seek revenge against the Russians'
February 2012. 19 June. 21:13
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John Valanciunas and other Vilnius Lithuanian Rytas players minds – having to face Lokomotiv-Kuban ’players, which can not only help to secure a place in the next phase, but also the position of the first group.
J.Valančiūno waiting for a big challenge – Krasnodar team is the front line players like Jeremiah Massey, Ali Traore and Primož Brežecas.
- How are going to match? – Journalists asked J.Valančiūno.
- Yesterday we played with Juventus, so even a large pre-game with the Russians neskyrėme. More can be worked to better prepare. Need revanšuotis.
- What I would not like to repeat in Vilnius, this time to succeed in overcoming Lokomotiv-Kuban ’team?
- Away is always difficult to play. Opponents helps both fans and their own wall. I think that now is what will help us to have revenge.
- What to expect in the fight against a powerful enemy front line?
- They are physically strong, tall players. It is difficult, but as shown by the struggle in Krasnodar, you can deal with them.
- Arrived in Vilnius to a Raptors Maurizio Gherardini executives, NBA TV. How do you feel?
- I feel fine, thank you (smile).
- Also come and "Raptors coach of physical preparation. What had to talk to him?
- For the first time I met him yesterday, and today I will have a conversation after a workout. It will help me better prepare physically.
Kemba Walker Is A Slightly Better Version of Will Bynum
Biyombo will be pretty good but not as good ad Ed Davis
Not Much Difference
Walker should get better but right now his stats for this season are not really better than Bynum’s.
Lets compare Bynum’s career stats per 36 minutes with Walker’s this season
Bynum
Age 29
FGA 12.8
FG% .444
FTA 4.2
FT% .794
3FGA 1.3
3FG% .255 – Last two seasons including this one .320 and .375
Points 15.1
Assists 6.1
Turnovers 2.8
Steals 1.4
Walker
Age 21
FGA 15.3
FG% .370 – At UConn his career FG% was .428
FTA 4.4
FT% .800
3FGA 4.4
3FG% .342
Points 16.3
Assists 4.7
Turnovers 2.2
Steals 1.3
Offensive Rating
Bynum 103
Walker 96
Defensive Rating
Bynum 112
Walker 110
This is going to upset some people here because it is unrealistic, and it could be seen as hating on the young guys, but here goes…
DeRozan, Amir, Ed Davis, and Bayless for Al Horford and Jeff Teague…
I do not dislike any of the guys that I am suggesting trading. I know that they could all turn into very solid players. However, if the Hawks were willing to deal Horford in order to be deeper and healthier this season, I would be all for this deal.
I know I will hear about already having Bargnani and Val, but I would love to have both of them with Horford. Get all 3 guys about 30 minutes a night at the 4/5 spots, and maybe even have all 3 out there together for a few minutes and go with a huge zone…
Not having Horford healthy enough to play right now could be a blessing in disguise. Hello ping pong balls…
I think Jeff Teague seems much more durable than Bayless, and I like him a little more.
Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#
by JumpShootersRUS on Feb 20, 2012 11:42 AM EST reply actions
I like that trade which is why it would never happen. The Hawks spent 2 billion years looking for a PG so I doubt they would trade Teague away now.
I am so desperate to get rid of Barbosa, I came up with this trade http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6uw5oyq , plus a pick of some sort (even a conditional 2nd rounder would do). Barbosa makes me want to vomit every time he steps on the floor. His minutes would be more useful if someone else were playing them.
Barbosa is clearly gone one way or another after this season. I don’t like the idea of this trade because you take on 1 more year of a redundant player in Luke Walton just to get rid of Barbosa. I would prefer to see him walk out right or even traded for a 2nd round pick than take on more filler at close to $6 million.
by Al Bundy is my hero on Feb 20, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
lakers have 9million trade exception
wouldn’t need to take anything back
Indeed – Barbosa fits nicely into their TPE. Jose on the other hand just barely doesn’t fit into it, so a trade involving him would require some salary coming back. But Barbosa to the Lakers for a pick is pretty much the ideal trade.
by dhackett1565 on Feb 21, 2012 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
What if Bayless and Teague were left out of it.
What about Barbosa, Ed Davis, and Amir for Horford?
Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#
by JumpShootersRUS on Feb 20, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Both of those trades are YES hands down for the Raps. The Hawks laugh you off the line for both, as well.
by dhackett1565 on Feb 20, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
was thinking
the exact same thing
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Feb 20, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
never ever happening
do i really need to go into this one?
Depends
Hawks would do this trade if
1. They thought that either Joe Johnson or DeMar could play the #3 or
2. They could trade Joe Johnson or
3. They could amnesty Joe Johnson. They will owe him $88 million over the next four seasons after this one.
Right now the Hawks have Marvin Williams starting at SF. Replacing him with DeRozan either at SF or Joe Johnson at SF and playing DeMar at SG would be an upgrade.
They have Ivan Johnson backing up Joe Smith. Either Ed or Amir would be an upgrade.
If the Hawks thought Bayless would be an upgrade over Teague at PG then they do this trade because they would believe that they ugrade at two starting positions and one bench position and not have any downgrades. In addition they have an extra young asset either Amir or Ed that they could trade later in the season.
Sorry I Fogot About Horford - LOL
Most likely the Hawks don’t do this trade LOL
Another thing to consider: what if the Raps luck out and grab the number one pick. Then you’re talking about Anthony Davis in the mix up front as well.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Feb 20, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Just imagine....
If the T-wolves pick is a lottery and it nets the league owned hornets the #1 over all pick.
Could you imagine the conspiracy theorist?
I like that trade (for the Raptors, not so much the Hawks). The only issue I have is how do we squeeze Barney, Jonas and Horford into the same front court? It would be a good problem to have though.
we trade bargnani...
because we would have to assume the rest of the legue has gone crazy and we propose bargnani and calderon for lebron.
Jeremy Lamb Had 32 Tonight vs Villanova
I really like his game. I don’t think he is a top five pick but he should go in the lottery or just outside of it. Draft Express currently has him at #12. Where he goes will depend on what he and UConn do the rest of the season.
He is 6’5" and very athletic so he can definitely play the #2.
I would love to see the Raptors draft him. I wouldn’t mind trading Ed for the rights to Lamb.
I Doubt That The Raptors Could Get The Rights To Lamb For The Other Johnson
that is why I suggested Davis.
The Raptors will have an extra asset up front next season and if they can get Lamb they can let Barbosa go and have Lamb replace Barbosa in the rotation. Lamb would also push DeRozan which would be a good thing.
If They Can Draft MKG
and get the rights to Lamb they will have two very good young players who could fill two needs that the Raptors will otherwise have on the wing.
Questions
The injuries have made it especially difficult to assess what the team really has in terms of pieces going forward. This upcoming summer and this draft in particular is a pivotal crossroads moment for the team. If I were the GM, the questions I would be asking at the moment are as follows:
1. Has the structure of the season (lack of training camp) negatively skewed the performances of Davis and DeRozan such that they both deserve another season of evaluation before giving up on them as core pieces of this team’s rebuild?
2. How necessary is it to allow Bargnani an extended run of minutes to confirm that his early season performance is what can be expected of him going forward at the risk of winning more games and jeopardizing our draft odds of acquiring a franchise level talent
3. Even if we were to accept current members of the team as part of a future core, what skills are this team lacking that will negatively impact its ability to attain future success and which of the potential draft prospects already possesses this skill as part of his offensive/defensive repertoire
4. What can be done in free agency that will best serve this team in the short and long term?
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
re: #3
Advocating drafting for need? The assumption that current members of the team are part of a future core is a HUGE one, which conflicts with #1. I believe that “core piece” status is something thats earned with ones performance on the court. And part of that is consistency. Until the aforementioned DeRozan and Davis bring that to their game, they are very susceptible to being “drafted over” in the coming years. It’s just the way things are on a rebuilding team. Sometimes right players are drafted first, sometimes they come along later.
Sports Illustrated Mid Season grades
C Toronto Raptors (9-23) The record is unsightly, and the Raptors allowed Charlotte its first win in 17 games last week. But there are genuine reasons for optimism, beginning with the transformation of Andrea Bargnani into a capable defender under the tutelage of new coach Dwane Casey. Bargnani has battled a chronic calf injury that has caused him to miss nearly 20 games, which, combined with a wretched year from DeMar DeRozan after his breakout season in 2010-11, has short-circuited Toronto’s offense to the point where even the defensive improvements aren’t enough to generate victories. Some “lost” seasons are more valuable than others, though. The culture has changed under Casey so that Toronto should maintain its hard-nosed style even when a hopefully healthy Bargnani is joined next year by another long, thin European forward-center in Jonas Valanciunas, last year’s top pick
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