Tip-In: "Hobbled" - Spurs Defeat Raptors 113 - 106
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Feb 16, 2012 8:01 AM EST
in Tip-In (Post Game Reports)
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Tony Parker let loose on the Raptors as they failed to materialize a win in their back-to-back home games. The Raptors kept it close for the most part, but to Kinnon Yee, the most disturbing part is the fading identity that seemed to be established earlier in the year.
And down goes Linas Kleiza.
As my second favourite reason to watch the Raptors this year goes down with a "sore left knee", the Raptors could have used him to at least have been a steady hand at both ends of the floor.
As a result, it's become just that much harder for me to watch these games.
The thing I've kept telling myself to keep myself in check is that this year is a rebuilding year. "Keep thinking about that draft pick." "Keep thinking about Jonas's development abroad." "Keep thinking about building an identity this year."
Yup, the Raptors were down in the first quarter thanks to some poor work on both ends of the floor.
Yes, they managed to make a game of it eventually as they clawed their way back.
Ultimately, the game ended in a loss as the Raptors failed to execute down the stretch.
This one had the Raptors' claw prints all over it. I mean sure, we can talk about the nice plays the Raptors had such as the reverse alley oops that were going around in the second half of the game. And heck, there's a pretty good Jose Calderon highlight package in there for the third straight night. And while DeMar DeRozan may have had another (inconsistently) strong game, the Spurs had too many additional weapons for the Raptors to win. Toss in a huge Tony Parker night, and well... That's all she wrote.
But here's a disturbing fact. This marks the seventh time in the last month that the Raptors have allowed an opponent to score over 100 points. Contrast this to the first month of play where they allowed only the Orlando Magic to score over 100 points and I have questions.
Where's that commitment to defense gone?
Because if "the future" was going to be a focus this year, then establishing an "identity" going into next year was supposed to be a priority.
To me, having an idea of the system and style we're going to play for the duration of Dwane Casey's tenure is extremely important moving forward. It's going to dictate the type of players we're going to draft, the players we go after in free agency and the ones we are going to deem as trading commodities as we get closer and closer to the end of the year. It also ensures that next year's crop of players know that we have an established system that they're going to have to adapt to instead of adapting a system to certain players needs.
However, as the season progresses and if we continue to see this system and ideology deteriorate, where does that leave us next year?
Another half season wasted trying to put the foot down on who the Toronto Raptors are? No thanks.
Simply put, the players have to demand more from themselves. Getting into a shootout against the rest of the NBA just isn't going to cut it, especially when you don't have an efficient scoring lineup. It doesn't matter that DeRozan scored 29 points if he can't guard his man. That might have been a good moral victory for previous Raptor teams but it certainly isn't one this year.
At least for me it isn't.
I'm demanding that this team hold itself accountable towards the longer term goals that they've established. It matters more to me that the Raptors play a certain style and lose than play a game without direction and win. In the short term, it might feel better to get that win, but in the long run, it does nothing to help with the process of establishing an identity.
Frankly, it wastes this season that we're asking the Raptors' fanbase to suffer through.
The goal has to be towards a stronger future for this franchise. Otherwise the Raptors will simply continue to be a middle-of-the-road team with no clear vision and only a handful of wins.
And that's just simply unacceptable.
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“But here’s a disturbing fact. This marks the seventh time in the last month that the Raptors have allowed an opponent to score over 100 points. Contrast this to the first month of play where they allowed only the Orlando Magic to score over 100 points and I have questions”
don’t allow pace to confuse with defense. Raptors pace has gone up slightly over the last few weeks, but their defense rating has also improved slightly (up to 18th in the league from 19th). They have also faced a rather difficult schedule of teams from early in the season.
Not complimenting the defense last night.. but that Raps have had to pick up the pace of their games as their half court offense is completely terrible. Yet their defese has (in general) still been solid.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Feb 16, 2012 8:23 AM EST reply actions
I understand about pace
But between the first and second months of the NBA, the Raptors just have not looked as interested in playing D. Half court offense isn’t good, but the Raptors really struggle finishing on the break. So offense aside, the Raptors have not been able to stop teams as readily as before. Some of it has to be Bargnani’s ability to switch on pick and rolls. But at the same time, this team needs to continue developing on the defensive end.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Feb 16, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
"the Raptors have not been able to stop teams as readily as before. Some of it has to be Bargnani’s ability to switch on pick and rolls."
Umm, NSFS just stated that their defensive rating has actually improved “(up to 18th in the league from 19th)”…
and thats the thing
the defense has gotten better (although maybe a more fair statement would be stayed roughly the same) just at a faster pace… which has lead to a better offensive game.
Yes the Raps are still losing, but they are losing 100 – 95 rather than 85-65.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Feb 16, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
And how is that better
when in wins and losses, it comes up as a wash?
I don’t consider a change from 19th to 18th in defensive rating as a significant change.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Feb 17, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
"And that's just simply unacceptable."
well…get over it.
I will tell you something that might hurt…but you are in a universe of choas and the way you have learned to deal with it is to creat fantasy and image.
In this particular fantasy…you think you have a team with staff and players who give a hoot about you or what you think.
Get over it. Write your blog, get people emotional input…everybody “feel” involved.
Right!
Casey is part of the PC sports environment where everybodu involved says what they must say to entertain and not get fired.
I will say it…
Casey cannot head coach!
Casey is good at teaching players defensive philosophies and strategies.
He SUCKS as a offensive minded coach and REALLY sucks as a live action, adaptive coach. His entire staff does…UNLESS they are seeing things and telling him.
So they are affraid to say or he isn’t listening…both way strike me as a hellava team to watch.
I have turned down the sound so I am not subjected to thet idiot skinny, whinning high pitched say nothing idiot.
What an ass.
Two close games..both lost by a coach not knowing his team, not knowing matchups.
Its no wonder the stadium was empty last night…
Ridiculous
This is a near playoff team with Bargnani healthy, which would qualify Casey for coach of the year consideration. Kleiza had emerged as a solid contributor playing within the system devised by Casey. Coaching is not perfect, it never is, but coaching is not this team’s problem – depth of talent is. If Ed Davis comes out of this year showing himself to be as solid as some thought he would be, you have a promising four big rotation, with Kleiza and J Johnson off the bench as complementary pieces. The summer focus would be the wing spots and upgrading the PG rotation. This is achievable through the draft and free agency. Coaching is not the problem.
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
by HQ Interloper on Feb 16, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
I ee it very differently.
and I suppose that is why it is fun to discuss sports.
However…I saw a complete break down on coaching in the final minutes of the Laker game.
You see it as a player problem.
I see it as a coach not knowing what his players can do.
I saw a 7 foot center on the bench NEVER called on again in when his floor players were allowing a guy with 5 damned fouls to take to them.
You see it as a failed missed Jose opportunity…
I see it as earlier missed rebounds that allowed them to even get this far.
BUT we can agree to disagree, right?
" saw a 7 foot center on the bench NEVER called on again in when his floor players were allowing a guy with 5 damned fouls to take to them."
so is this what its really about? Gray not playing enough?
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Feb 16, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
I did
just wanted to hear it first
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Feb 16, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Pot calling the kettle black..
In this particular fantasy…you think you have a team with staff and players who give a hoot about you or what you think.
Get over it. Write your blog, get people emotional input…everybody "feel" involved.
Right!
Wouldn’t you be writing an emotional input, that the team and staff will ignore?
Small ball
Ppellico, Casey went small, it’s a valid strategy, and I thought it gave them a chance. I don’t think grey is sitting there, going ‘put me in coach,’ when that’s what was having a little bit of success. That said, I didn’t like the way tiago splitter was owning Davis. He’s no anchor in the middle.
Man...I really don't understand this group
Yes…he does go small at times and rightfully so.
However…to say he went small for entire second half periods regardless of what the opposition had on the floor is foolish.
So sorry…. I feel as a basketball fan the game starts in the middle.
It ten moves to tge guard positions.
I believe in the inside game as being THE way to win long term in the NBA.
So I am a Gray fan.
I believe him to be THE Raps only real center today.
Read again…today.
With THIS teams line up.
Perhaps one day they will get a legit starting center and Gray will become the solid 15 to 2o minute backup.
However…we have what we have now.
But THIS group feels I cannot address the reality as I see it without some sort of denial of my own reality and understanding of the game.
That since it never happens as I would like…so then I am not allowed to express my dismay and ask why not…until it is done.
Wow…what fun.
I become called a “fanboy”, of which I still have no idea of what this means.
I will finish by saying to all here who refuse to accept my opinion without a degrading name calling…
YOUR plan, Casey’s plan has failed.
In fact the Lakers game and the Texas game ended as failure to whatever Casey and, I guess, your plan is.
Please try to be more than just mean and name calling.
I can have my own opinion as to how this game should be played. It is a failure now.
I Can't Comment On How Gray Played In New Orleans
However, as a Raptor he has sucked.
There is a reason that he doesn’t play much and I put my money on Casey being correct and you wrong about Casey.
ok...i will name call
you’re an idiot.
Of course you cannot comment on him at NO.
I , however, can. and his days at Litt and Chicago as a Bull.
And for you to say he has sucked as Rap is a stupid, idiotic statement.
It’s clear that you have followed Aaron Gray’s career closely and have also followed him from blog to blog, maybe you can shed some light on why you are so fond of him? It might help us understand and maybe agree with you in these debates.
by Al Bundy is my hero on Feb 16, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
My Guess Is That ppelico
is a fan of Bellinelli and became enamored with Gray when he played for NO.
Gray has sucked as a Raptors player.
No need to get personal. Personal attacks show the inability to logically defend one’s position. It is used extensively by people who lose an argument and have no facts to back up their position. You see this all the time.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. ’you’re nothing but a fanboy’ is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.
These are the kinds of things you have to deal with on the Internet. People just giving opinions and picking apart other people’s opinions. And people aren’t going to explain every little thing. Like I’m not saying I know what casey was thinking and I’ve done an intense analysis, just that they went small and cut the lead to 3 and that was effective, so why throw grey back out there. I like grey, but he’s a matchup guy, a role player and his role is to defend other players similar size and speed to him. If they are not on the court, he doesn’t play. Again, just my opinion.
no problem
going small IMO for the entire half even though they had again gone big and had began to cut you down inside was a terrible move.
You had Chandler with 5 fouls and now getting everything he wanted inside.
In my opinion…this was poor thinking.
Now for thoise who did not know Gray in NO…the playoffs against the Lakers show what he could do against the likes of the Laker bigs.
He was heroic.
If Casey didn’t know this…he was not aware of the matchup history and didn’t prepare properly.
The end results are clearly showing, here.
We are shackled by losses…not wins.
So to argue in favor of his moves is, well…not good.
But everybody keeps blameing it on the talent. It ain’t all the talents problem.
I stopped reading
Im giving up reading anything this guy ever posts mainly because he just said we played the lakers and texas???
"I saw a 7 foot center on the bench NEVER called on again in when his floor players were allowing a guy with 5 damned fouls to take to them."
What on earth are you talking about?!? Alabi was no where near the bench. He’s been forced to toil away in the d-league for almost the entire season. While his talents waste away playing against inferior opponents, the Raptors continue to lose. Their desire to tank this season is blatantly displayed everytime they role out a “big man” rotation of Amir, Davis, Kleiza and Gray. All are"little men" when compared to the far superior Solo. If the Raptors are going to continue wasting So-Al’s time, the least they can do is trade him to a contender who could use one of the best big men in the game! Leaving him to rot in the d-league is quite frankly below a gifted player such as Solo.
Casey
its hard to take anything other than positives from what Casey has done this year. Sure you can question some small things (leaving Jose on Lin, Magloire on the floor at FT time etc) they really don’t come close to comparing with the overall change of this team.
We have to remember he wants to run a certain style without the peronnel (talent) to do so.
That said, I don’t think we can also say that Casey is for sure the coach of the future either. As you said this teams offense has been bad and in part thats been due to him being slow to adapt to the necessary faster paced game. Right now the entire system has been based on Bargnani… but ofcourse Bargnani can’t be on the floor all the time and injuries do happen… so the team needs to adapt. He has also coached (more) experienced teams in the NBA.
So I do question can Casey adapt his coaching to a team that will be inexperienced and may not have a 3pt shooting PF? I think the last few games have, generally, shown some positive signs that he can, however I don’t think we can completely answer that question yet either. Atleast not until this team has more than mediocre talent and one dimensional players.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Feb 16, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe
The slow pace is a consequence of wanting to get the system principles entrenched before speeding things up to what he wants to be the natural pace of the team. Casey is aware of the team’s prior reputation, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he were comfortable to let things slide on the offensive end out of the assumption that the offense would be there when necessary. One of the reason the team;s offense has looked so poor outside of Bargnani is DeMar’s regression and Amir Johnson’s inconsistency/problems and Bayless being injured. Outside of Forbes (who has disappointed), none of the offseason acquisitions were offensive players. Next year will tell us how Casey maps to the long term of the team, but his contract is not so long that changes can’t be made.
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
by HQ Interloper on Feb 16, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
give demar some credit...
While I have been disappointed with him for the most part, I felt the last 7 games he has made an effort to attack the hoop more and be involved. He is avgeraging 5.8fta per game the last 7 games. Even the game where he only had 8 points he was making plays and finished with 7assists, something that he has not done before.
While there is still much to be desired he has looked better recently.
yes cause Vegas projected this team to have beaten the likes of the Lakers and Spurs.
I’m sure if we had Red Auerbach this team would be undefeated.
Considering most projections (prior to seeing Casey coach) had the Raps at about the 20 win mark:
http://www.apbrmetrics.com/2011/12/24/2011-2012-nba-season-projections/
http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog/2011/12/23/predicting-the-2011-2012-raptors-season/
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds
They are a little above pace considering strength of schedule and injury factor. But please, lets not let facts get in the way cause if anyone else coached this team it’d have at least 1 more win?
What's with all the crazys coming out lately?!?!
First Buddahfan, now ppellico going all crazy pants recently….
I haven’t been around much the last two seasons, but I sure missed the days when MAS11 was as crazy as it got. ;)
what's with the crazy remark.
Look…OK.
You are the idiot
.I see why the game was lost.
You blame it on talent.
I blame it on coaching.
But I am the crazy one.
You hit on others for being nasty, but then think you can get away with this .
This is just as small as anything Buddahfan say.
And just as sophmoric..
Yoy got anything more to work with?
Sorry, you are right. I take back the “crazy” remark. My bad. However, I will say you are just simply wrong. Casey has this group rag-tag group of marginal NBA players, NBA neophytes and previously underperforming players playing a decent system and have been competitive more nights than not. When you start making remarks suggesting a team with no marquee players lost to a team with one of the best records in the West because of COACHING and not talent, I have to question either your motivation, your understanding of the game of basketball or your ability to think rationally. I jumped to your ability to think rationally too quickly and I’m sorry.
actually, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being labeled “crazy”, at least when it comes to being innovative/outside the box thinker (and not the mental health component), however when you do think outside the norm (hence “crazy”) you better be prepared to defend your thoughts with a logical well thought out substantiation.
I think Buddah’s crazy, but hey at least he tries to back things up… And even once in a while he goes with the normative.
Anyways, this isn’t intended to insult anyone, just saying how debates go, especially on the internet.
What Is A "Marginal NBA Player"?
All of the following Raptors players will become 10 – 15 year rotation or better players in the NBA.
Bargnani
Calderon
DeRozan
Barbosa
Amir Johnson
Ed Davis
Bayless
Linas Kleiza provided his knee holds up.
All of those guys will wind up playing 10 – 15 years in the NBA as rotation players or better. I see nothing “Marginal NBA Player” about that.
Completely disagree.....
Casey has made great adjustments and gotten his team to play significantly better in the second half of games. Here are the half time +/- for the Raptors since January first and if you notice a trend, they play better in the second half after Casey makes half time adjustments.
Portland -15/5
Clippers -12/0
Suns -4/7
Jazz 0/0
Nuggets -22/7
Nets +5/16
Atl -19/-4
Bos -22/-14
Wash 10/6
Mia -5/-1
Wash -12/9
Bucks -7/1
Bos 7/5
Lakers -8/6
NY +11/-14
Spurs -10/3
While the raptors have had many late game collapses, the fact that they haev even been in alot games late is impressive because of their lack of talent. If it wasn’t for a few missed chances and blown leads this team could be close to .500 with their best player being injured the majority of the year.
Calderon...
While we have all asummed Calderon is on his way out.
I don’t know if we can find a better point guard to replace him. Right now he is playing outstanding basketball and is the reason we have been so competitive the last few games.
Right now I feel like he is playing like a top 10 point guard in the NBA.
In no order…
Rose, Deron, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Nash, Rondo, Lowry, Lawson, Parker.
Right now does Calderon look out of place in that group. Right now he is averaging 11ppg/8.8apg/3.4rpg while shooting 47% from the floor and only 2 turnovers per game. Which is the lowest turnovers amongst anyone in the top 15 for assists per game.
Are we really going to find a better floor general for next season? Unless we are getting a pretty big package I would much prefer to keep Jose. He has shown great ability to run the Pick n Roll this season, which will be extremely valuable when Jonas comes over because he will be a huge threat rolling to the hoop. Add in a few shooters and it will create more space on the floor (especially with Bargnani), and if Jose continues to look to score a little more it will drastically improve our offence. Add in a wing player and suddenly that is a pretty solid team. On top of that his defence is drastically improved this year and he is doing a much better job control penetration from the top of the key, and controlling driving lines to the basket.
Are we really able to find a better player in the draft, who will be able to run a team, and with young players we will need a veteran to run the team. Drafting a real back up pg is a necessity but I would prefer the Raptors kept Jose to run the show for a few more years.
I agree with you on Jose
and i have always thought he’s gone underrated by fans in Toronto (generally speaking ofcourse). While I don’t really think his D has improved, and its still pretty bad, good D from a PG in the NBA today is a rarity. PGs beat PGs over and over again.
That said, BC has given all indications that Jose is on his way out. Twice, within the last week or two, he mentioned the need for the PG of the future, hinted at using the amnesty clause on Jose (paraphrasing : “we have 10 mil in cap space, 20 if we want to go a certain route” which can only lead one to believe thats Jose) Already tried to trade him once, talked about trading him during his talk with Devlin/Jack. Alot of talk about drafting a PG last year.
I would personally only like to see Jose traded if he:
1) wants to be traded
2) nets an excellent return.
but I fully expect BC to trade Jose as his MO is to get rid of talented players and go with one dimensional guys instead.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Feb 16, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
lol...
I think he wants a ‘dynamic’ point guard. Someone he is able to be a one man fast break or really handle the ball.
Unfortunately those are hard to come by, so why trade Jose when it looks like we may have some talent around him next year.
The Calderon problem
Has never been a talent issue, but a question of how likely is he to maintain his high level play throughout the course of the season carrying heavy minutes. I’ve mentioned previously that if you could have a reliable back up to Calderon who would allow him to top out at 30 minutes per game while offering a complementary change of pace, Toronto would be very pleased with its point guard rotation. The drop off from Calderon to his backup has been significant though and thus pushed his minutes up to the point where the returns seem to diminish as the season goes on
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
by HQ Interloper on Feb 16, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
It is true though...
I could not stand Jose and was ecstatic with the Tyson Chandler trade, but this year he has been great.
What I said about his defence was relative to his defence before. Before his defence was useless, and while he never will be an elite defender at least he is making an effort.
Everyone criticizes D’antoni for not preaching defence, I am starting to think Triano was worse. I mean Andrea and Jose have improved drastically defensively this season under Casey. While some of it is the system, alot of it has been their own individual effort because no matter what system you put in, if the players don’t work their butts off, the system won’t work.
Jose Ain't Going Anywhere Except Maybe To Another Medal This Summer In London
He ain’t going to playoffs
He ain’t going to be traded
What he is right now is physically worn out.
His minutes per game are at 33.8 which is just below his career high in 2008-09 of 34.3, The difference is that the schedule is more compressed and he is now north of 30 years old
2012-13 starting lineup
PF – Bargnani
C – Valanciunas – I expect he will go on the DeRozan rookie plan
SF – ?
SG – DeRozan
PG – Calderon
You can book it
That is the only scenario the Raptors control
and according to how you replace the “?” that could be a playoff team. Actually given how the East is now, that is Definitely a playoffs team an not a bottom feeder playoff team.
(under the assumption you retain LB)
However if Andrea stays (And I cannot see any reason why not) one between Amir and ED is redundant. Too bad we did not try to do Amir-Gallo Swap, Gallo went on having a great season and he is now a fringe ASG palyer who will get 12M next year…
We can't be sure of that just yet
Gallo has shown himself to be good this year, but is he still seen as THAT good when paying him 12 M for stellar play in a lockout shortened season? I think some executives will be so disappointed in re-upping players at the numbers they did when all is said and done.
I guess the question going forward, is, if this is the aforementioned pieces – Bargs, JV, Jose, and DeMar – comprise the starting team going forward, what should be the strength of the SF such that he could propel this team to playoff contention? Is it consistent scoring like a Harrison Barnes or the varied skill of Baby G-sus (MKG)? If given the opportunity, do you choose a supposed franchise big like Davis and let the platoon of Kleiza and JJ handle small forward, with the salary cap money filling out the bench?
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
by HQ Interloper on Feb 16, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
my point was
forget the 12M would you not donthat trade now?
Ed Has More Upside
Amir is a head case
However it is not very likely that Davis will stay with the Raptors any longer than he has to. He wants to start and will not settle for playing behind Jonas and Andrea for the next five years plus.
On the other hand Amir would settle for coming off of the bench and loves Toronto.
Tough choice on which to move but I agree that next season one will become redundant.
To my eyes, Jose is playing the best ball of his career this year. Not looking at numbers but just my sense of him is his off-guard game is way better. They started that with him last year and his shooting dropped off, but it’s back. Not to mention he’s added some creativity to drives, not just doing first to the rim, fall down move, but a few time jinking down the middle and finishing.
Agreed, he is getting overused but still want carter to step up now so Jose can play mor sg when the matchup allows.
Jonas
Per 36 in Euroleague play….
15.7ppg
12.4rpg
2.6bpg
63 fg%
74 ft%
Unfortunately his fouls are still a little high 4.96 per 36 minutes, but the other numbers are fantastic. Especially hte last few games where he has posted
8/13/1blk
17/10/3blk
12/9/2ast/3blks
8/7/1ast/1blk
While he still has alot of room to grow, I am starting to think he is going to fit into that starting center spot quite nicely beside Andrea. When he was drafted they had him listed at 240lbs, if he can add 20lbs from when he was drafted to the start of next season his impact could be immediate. My favourite comparison for him is Pau Gasol and he would have 10lbs on Gasol.
6’11, 260lbs. Athletic and able to run the floor with a huge wing span and great hands. Plus I get the feeling he will be like Rubio and play better with more talent around him. With better shooters and NBA rules it wil make his roll to the basket (with his size, athleticism and hands) a serious problem for other teams.
When Did Jonas Get to 260 Pounds?
More like 240 at this point
Lets break down his stats on minutes and fouls based on this season’s data including last summer’s EuroBasket 2011 tournament.
1. Lithuanian league which is probably equivalent to Division II hoops
MPG – 23
FPG – 2.6
FP 36 MIn – 4.1
2. VTB United League which is a bit better than the Lithuanian league
MPG – 22
FPG – 2.6
FP 36 Min – 4.3
3. EuroCup which is the second best league in Europe
MPG – 22
FPG – 3.1
FP 36 Min – 5.1
4. EuroLeague which is the top league in Europe probably equivalent to Division I Final 16
Only 3 games this season so far
MPG – 18
FPG – 1.7
FP 36 Min – 3.4
5. EuroBasket 2011 which of course included a number of NBA Centers like Noah, Mozgov etc
Games – 10
MPG – 15.7
FPG 2.5
FP 36 Min – 5.7
So right now his fouls per 36 minutes across the four leagues and EuroBasket 2011 range from 3.4 to 5.7 depending on the competition.
When he plays against Centers his own weight or close to it he has no problem with fouls. When he plays against older, heavier, stronger and more experienced Centers he has a foul problem.
So like I have been saying for over six months Jonas needs to physically grow up and get more experience. Fouls will then not be a problem for him
So You Agree With Me and Not What Shalax23 Wrote
6’11, 260lbs. Athletic and able to run the floor….
We both agree that he weighs around 240 maybe a bit more but not 260 like Shalax23 wrote.
When he was drafted they had him listed at 240lbs, if he can add 20lbs from when he was drafted
The whole 6’11, 260 statement was based on the scenario that he gains 20 lbs. You’re both right, just some miscommunication.
He Never Said If He Can Gain 20 Pounds
He stated 260 as a fact today. No miscommunication.
He was very clear in what he wrote; i.e. Jonas weighs 260.
“When he was drafted they had him listed at 240lbs, if he can add 20lbs from when he was drafted to the start of next season his impact could be immediate. My favourite comparison for him is Pau Gasol and he would have 10lbs on Gasol.
6’11, 260lbs. Athletic and able to run the floor with a huge wing span and great hands"
he clearly DID say “if he can add 20lbs”. Your reading comprehension has much to be desired.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Feb 16, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry Buddah
He definitely stated that JV weighed 240lbs when drafted and that he hoped he could put on an extra 20lbs.
Yea, totally ignore the context of the mark where EVERY tense is future tense NOT present tense...
Like I said Buddha has been a trolling loser looking for a fight lately and it’s getting real old real fast…
"the Truth"
When he plays against Centers his own weight or close to it he has no problem with fouls. When he plays against older, heavier, stronger and more experienced Centers he has a foul problem.
That’s why you keep grey and magloire to take some of the load against bigger players. I can live with that rotation, even wonder if jv would start in his first year. Those other two fall off sharply after about 12 mins anyway.
They Can Do Better Than Gray or Magloire
Magloire is already showing his age and he is pretty old so its like Rasho, downhill from here and fast.
Gray has sucked.
The Raptors need some talent to back up Jonas who will probably play 25 MPG at the most next season. Gray nor Magloire are those guys. Even Amir would be better as a backup for Jonas than Magloire or Gray.
Duh
Of course they can do better … But until better players are here I think Magray can tag team the 25 backup minutes and would be happy to do it, which is key.
Magloire has sucked (what’s his per) but grey has delivered. His role is to defend and rebound certain matchups in limited minutes and he does that and he doesn’t even think about shooting outside of 3 feet, which is awesome. I wish we’d had him last year.
Gray
He is averaging 2.8 PPG and 6 RPG
His offensive rating is a miserable 85. His rebounding has been pretty good
His Roland Rating is the worst on the team, a horrific minus 13.6. Carter who is one above Gray on the sucks chart has a Roland rating of minus 7.3
His on court/off court rating is the second worst on the team at a horrible minus 9.7. Only Ed has been worse with a minus 16.0
Gray has sucked.
Raptors fans have this thing about falling in love with players who can do nothing other than rebound. SMH
They're called role players, gray's role is defence and rebounding, that's it.
He’ll be wide open at the foul line and not take the shot. He obviously does not have the green light to shoot outside of 3 feet.
If you admit his rebounding is pretty good, why do you say he sucks?
Bargnani's Absensce
has significantly lowered the post count at RaptorsHQ.
ppelico
too bad he’s not an NBA GM. We could package Gray and Bargnani for Lamarcus Aldridge and Batum and get a deal done quick.
I love what Casey has done so far. Listen to Popovich talk about the Raps after the game. Watch the games. If you know this team, you know what changes have begun to take place. With no preseason and 30 something games in 60 days….Casey is my coach of the year. It’s a process and fanboy’s want bandwagon’s to jump onto now. As a fan, I appreciate the process and I feel we are back on track. The players are the same. The building and GM are the same. It’s the coach that’s different and he is the reason for the change.
And to bash not only Casey but also his staff, who deserve to share in the credit for the change in the team, shows me that you don’t care about the team or the process needed to achieve success. You just care about one bench player who has never been anything of note in the league. I am tempted to go off on Aaron Gray but it’s not his fault. He seems like a team guy who just wants to be in a situation where he can play more; fair enough.
But anyone who comes on this site and criticizes Casey and his staff while trumpeting the accomplishments of Aaron Gray is not an accomplished thinker.
Good luck to Aaron Gray. If you can’t earn many minutes playing for this year’s Raptors, you better up your game if you want to stay in the league.
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