RaptorsHQ Rapid Recap - Toronto Raptors 97 - Minnesota Timberwolves 87
by Adam Francis on Jan 9, 2012 10:00 PM EST
in Raptors Rapid Recap - 2010/11
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-It wasn't pretty at times, but the Toronto Raptors outscored the Minnesota Timberwolves when it counted late in the fourth quarter en route to a 97 to 87 win. The win stopped a two-game slide for the Dinos, and kicked off their back-to-back-to back with a W.
-This win was brought to you by the letter A...as in Amir and Andrea. Amir Johnson put on a hustle clinic despite having flu-like symptoms this morning. He held Kevin Love to 3 of 16 from the field, all the while posting 19 points and 11 rebounds, 8 of which were on the offensive glass. Andrea was no slouch on the boards either, missing a double double by a single rebound, and doing the bulk of the team's scoring with 31 points. Stir in some Leandro Barbosa for O (13 points), some James Johnson on D (5 rebounds and 4 blocks) and the usual dose of Jose Calderon (14 points, 6 assists, 1 turnover) and you've got a pretty good recipe for a win.
-Minnesota though did their best to help the Raps out, making some puzzling offensive decisions and turning it over 15 times. As well, they were held to only 34 per cent shooting from the field and scored only one field goal from about the seven-minute mark until the final minute of the game. Jose Juan Barea had 16 to lead the Wolves, but he wasn't on the court in the game's final minutes.
-With the win, the Raps have a good chance to get two-straight W's as Toronto now heads on the road to take on the slightly discombobulated Washington Wizards. The Wiz haven't won a game yet this season, but considering Raptors' coach Dwane Casey played Bargnani, Calderon, DeRozan and Amir Johnson an average of 39 minutes tonight, this next one could prove to be extremely challenging for the Dinos.
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Injury Updates
Raptors C Aaron Gray underwent a procedure Monday to control repeated occurrences of a rapid heart rate. He’s expected to return in two weeks.
Toronto G Jerryd Bayless (left ankle) missed his sixth straight game. …
Toronto’s Linas Kleiza (right knee surgery) has traveled to Colorado to visit the doctors who operated on him last February. Kleiza could return to the lineup Friday against Indiana.
…
Love
Both of Love’s Made Threes came with Ed supposedly trying to guard him
Love had a 20 – 12 streak before tonight. No longer
Bargnani Minutes
I have no problem with his minutes since it resulted in win. Play him fewer minutes tonight and lose and then maybe lose tomorrow and/or Wed anyway. This way the Raptors put another win in the bank. The young guys need the experience of winning as much as possible.
I have no problem with Andrea’s minutes tonight.
One thing for sure
The coaches are not thinking about tanking any games this season.
Not too sure how to judge this game. Minny has got talent.
Love Is The Best PF In The League According to Barkley
I personally think Blake is better than him. LOL
Either way Love is a star.
I like Love a lot. He had a rough game as every player does once in awhile (credit to Amir).
I think it is stupid that Andrea got over 40 minutes in the first game of a back-to-back-to-back. I know you are not playing strong teams but they could have rested him the last 2 minutes probably. Good game by Andrea. Happy with his rebound numbers the last few games. Lets hope he keeps that up.
And playing in the midst of a back-to-back-to-back about to play the Bulls…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 9, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
No problems with the minutes since it's a win ...
But now play him less the next to games and maybe lose tonight and/or tomorrow?
That makes no sense? Yes this win ended a bad 2 game losing streak, but a loss is a loss. And how do you gain experience winning, if you lose tonight and or tomorrow night?
Kind of funny how....
Amir’s play isn’t mentioned. You guys rip how this team has no scoring outside Andrea and then Amir goes and drops 19 and its not even worth mentioning?
-Bargs
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 10, 2012 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
45 minutes for Bargnani
Casey wanted this one … Maybe Casey can make an athlete out of him … Or wear him out …
by axl t on Jan 9, 2012 10:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Get Well Soon Aaron Gray
Formerly known as timboslice85
by Rebrand_the_Raps on Jan 9, 2012 10:14 PM EST reply actions
Procedure sounds pretty certain, 95-96% success rate.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 9, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
His Health Is Of Course The Most Important
I hope he is healthy and the procedure works for him.
I think he can help the Raptors. He has more to offer in his game at this time in his career than Jamaal does at this time in his career.
you should have been there
last night.
We were having a great time and you came up.
I spoke of Amir offensive rebounds being good enough to get his poster over my bed…then YOU came up and all fun broke out.
Understand you are as much a fan of his as I am of our seemingly bad lucked Aaron Gray!
I also believe Grays health utmost important…I was just getting frustrated by the lack of official team med updates.
Plus, unlike everybody here…I promise Gray will actually end up your first center off the bench and getting 15 to 20 minutes per game.
I know, I know…sit down already ppellico!!!
But he is a misunderstood and talented big about to come into his best…IF HE comes back without complications.
Every medical procedure has complications and this one bothers me with its possible post- op clotting….
We had a ton of fun last night and were joined by a loveable weirdo from Buffalo.
hold on here
you brought up and discussed Buddahfan at the game with your buddies?
Does that officially make Budda (at the very least) a c-list celebrity? Waiting for the day when Budda’s selling autographs for 5 bucks a pop!
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 10, 2012 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
No, No... during the game thread ppellico made a comment about putting an Amir poster above his bed after that performance...
I told him to go to Buddha’s for a sleepover…
"the Truth"
and you got THE remark of the night!
and I didn’t get it until everybody explained Buddafan’s idolizing.
Ed Davis
I have no idea what is going on with him. The minus 22 is only one symptom of his bad play.
In watching the game. I did not watch the second half though I may watch the entire game on replay tomorrow depending on the election news coming out of New Hampshire.
Anyway, from what I saw of his play in tonight’s game he was no different tonight than he has been for most of the rest of the season only tonight was worse.
His body language looked awful. He looked like he was just going through the motions and could care less of about playing hard and trying to win.
I have no idea what is going on with him right now, but it is not good. That is for sure.
I don't think he wants to be here.
If that’s true, how about – if we end up with a pick outside of the top 8 – we package him with our pick for a pick between 3-6?
Formerly known as timboslice85
by Rebrand_the_Raps on Jan 9, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Then we don’t have to tank to get a good pick in a GREAT draft :)
Formerly known as timboslice85
by Rebrand_the_Raps on Jan 9, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Getting Fewer Than the 8th Most Ping Pong Balls Would Surprise Me
The best situation would be to finish the season, get the 14th fewest ping pong balls and then win the lottery. LOL
That Is Possible
I have sensed that from almost right after he was drafted.
I hope I am wrong.
I’ve talked to Ed a ton of times and have NEVER gotten the sense that he wasn’t happy in Toronto.
Now, that being said, if he doesn’t get more PT this year, that might change as the season goes on. I’m not really worried though because as the season goes on, guys are going to need more rest and he’ll get his shot.
Now…what he does with it is another story.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 9, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Glad To Read That I Might Be Wrong On This
I think Bayless returning will help his game.
For the Timberwolves this season
fifteen turnovers is an absolute triumph. The Raps outshot and out-rebounded the Wolves, and those are the Wolves’ two strengths. The Raps showed more energy and hustled more. That’s the game.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
Should have noted that it wasn’t necessarily the turnovers in total per se, but when they occurred. Mistakes at key points in the fourth quarter I felt cost that Wolves.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 9, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Bargnani Interviewed On NBA.TV
Got to love his response to the question.
Question: Is this the best that you have played since you have been in Toronto
Answer: We are playing hard on defense
Note; Raptors held the T-Wolves to .338 from the field.
Awesome ha ha. Classic Bargs.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 9, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Casey Said In Tonights Post Game Presser
That he is telling all his coaching friends around the league that Andrea is an all-star or at least playing like one. I can’t remember which.
not classic Bargs really
well, not answering the question is classic but the content of his response is completely new.
We and defence were two new words he learned over the summer.
I love the new and improved Andrea.
Andrea is playing like an all star, very early in this shortened season. And he is doing it by improving on both sides of the ball, not just worrying about scoring. He’s even passing better.
Well done Andrea. Keep it up. Does he have a new girlfriend? What’s going on? I hope it continues.
Jose and Amir play very well and play well together. If Ed and Bayless can get it together is what I think we need to discover before the end of the season so we can plan what to do moving forward.
by defensive rap on Jan 10, 2012 4:10 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure where
this ’Bargnani’s playing good defense’ idea has come about. Is he better than the last 5 years? Definetely. But he is still standing flat footed, turning his back on the ball, and taking his eye off his man.
That said his offensive aggression has been excellent. Finally, finally! taking it to the net regularily. We can see how much more efficient he is by going to the net instead of taking those long jumpers. Day and night difference on offense.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 10, 2012 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
when you assume...
he said better, where did he mention good defence? (for the record in Canada defence is spelt with a C)
He is not being a liability, he has gone from being one of the worst defenders in the NBA to an average defender with his effort. Is that an improvement?
is taht an improvement
ofcourse. I said so myself.
So are you now admitting that not only was Bargnani a liability but also one of the worst defenders in the NBA? Funny… how long were we told that wasn’t true……..
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 10, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
He was a very poor defender (not worst in the NBA) I never argued that.
I argued that he wasn’t the worst player in the NBA according to ‘advanced’ statistics’.
Please don’t put words in my mouth. You do that enough to yourself
“He is not being a liability, he has gone from being one of the worst defenders in the NBA to an average defender with his effort.”
so you didn’t just type that?
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 10, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I just admitted he was a poor defender twice, extremely bad? I don’t understand what you are trying to argue.
I argued before that he was not the worst player in the NBA. As many people loved to point out through advanced statistics. If there is a point you are trying to make please get to it.
umm you said (again) and I quote
“he has gone from being one of the worst defenders in the NBA to an average defender "
thats not statement is not ‘poor’. That is one of the worst. I realize that it contradicts the Bargnani boys historical statements… but the world won’t end.
Point? No point really. Just a good laugh about all the times some of us pointed out the obvious and we got called biased, wrong, douchebags whatever… when, after he actually does try, one can see the ‘haters’ weren’t actually wrong or biased about his historical production. Just realistic.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 10, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
At the game
was at the game. the raps foul more than any team in recent raps history. they are tops in the league in PF’s per game and shows they are at least trying to protect the rim under Casey.
-Maxmillien Rosenberg
Follow @maxmillien
Casey's a solid coach.
A lot of us Wolves fans are bitter about his firing. Like the Toronto announcers said tonight—the Wolves haven’t been .500 in a season since Casey was the coach. Sucks.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 9, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Watching can be a bit Kevin O’Neillish at times, but it’s effective. You don’t see NEARLY the amount of open lay-ups against the Raps this year.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 9, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
From The Same Article As Above - The Injury Update Is A Little Different Than The One On Yahoo
INFIRMARY UPDATE
Finally some clarity on centre Aaron Gray’s condition: The big man underwent an ablation procedure on Monday to fix his recurring episodes of a rapid heart rate. The team expects him to be ready to play within two weeks. Maple Leafs goaltender Jonas Gustavsson had to have three heart ablation procedures to get his condition in check
Point guard Jerryd Bayless was a no-go again and Casey said he is only now again able to put full weight on his injured ankle. Bayless is doubtful until Friday or Saturday’s games
Forward Linas Kleiza was in Colorado awaiting final approval from his doctors on a return to action following last winter’s surgery. Kleiza could play as soon as Wednesday against Sacramento.
Yep – noted that early in the liveblog tonight – looks like we were right Buddah.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 9, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
It Appears That Amir's Allergies Were Also Bothering Him Before The Game
Maybe he took some medication for the flu and allergies which gave him more energy. Not saying he did anything illegal but sometimes even legal medication can give you an extra boost at least in the short term.
I remember when I got out of the hospital after my gall bladder removal operation. I felt like a million bucks and unfortunately overdid it the next day because I felt so good. Two days later I got sick as a dog, was totally exhausted and was laid up for about a week.
Back in the day, Magic guard Darrell Armstrong claimed that he used to drink 8 cups of coffee at half-time. Sorry, I don’t have a link.
Pre Starbucks, eh
On his salary he probably couldn’t have afforded it anyway. LOL
I did not respect many of you before the game.
Now we are like brothers.
See you in the postseason.
by LanceArmstrong_LIVESTRONG on Jan 10, 2012 2:48 AM EST reply actions
Is Andrea playing like an all-star so far?
Yes. I am shocked to answer yes, but he has played very well and improved considerably on both sides of the ball.
Who here would have suggested before the season began that Andrea would be the best story of the year for the Raps and would be playing like an all-star?
Jose is playing great.
Amir, I don’t think I would trade him for anyone on Detroit and he’s still very young. Maybe Greg Monroe. I think they were crazy to let him go so young for so little.
Ed is a bit lost and he needs to get it together. I hope he gets the chance because I think he will be great.
Go Raps.
What is interesting is
the fact he is productive also when he his shots are not falling which has been the case for the last two games. If you look at his shooting % they have been underwhelming. THis year he is heling his cause by shooting inside and shooting FT which means that an average shooting performance would have made him scoring 40 on a night like this.
Honorable mention are also the fauls against he collects, not all captured by the FT number he shoots (good for making him top 15 in the league if I remember correctly). So his current play seems sustainable and as it is now, he seems to be the starting PF for this team for as long as he wants the job
Much improved
This is the kind of play that Colangelo has been selling to fans for years now. The problem was that until this season it was a lot of talk and not much to back it up. This year Bargnani is finally starting to play the way we have been told that he can. I too hope that he can keep it up.
As far as all-star status and all that, it really depends on too many outside factors(publicity, how other guys are playing, etc…) to be worth worrying about. Bottom line, Bargnani is finally starting to fulfill his potential. In my opinion, he still has plenty of polishing to do on the defensive side, but at least he is finally trying hard.
Going only by advanced statistics, I would consider Bargnani a candidate for Most Improved Player if he is able to sustain his current play through the rest of the season.
Galinneri
I have never liked his game but he has been playing great lately. It will be interesting to see JJ play him and see how they match up.
Trade Leandro B .
LB along with Ed Davis I must say has had a very lack luster body language. LB in particular I think hasn’t bought into Caseys coaching tactics and with all due respect I think its maybe because Casey hasn’t focused as much on offense. With that being said the Raptors offense to me looks better than last year. More organization and dicipline. Amir and Andrea are attempting to hit the boards more too. Kleiza would be a huge edition. Hugeee. We have no scoring at the 3 position. I will package LB and Davis for Cousins. Kleiza could pick up where LB will leave off on the offense..
by RedyJohn on Jan 10, 2012 6:14 AM EST via mobile reply actions
nice dream...
Cousins isn’t going anywhere. They fired their coach for him and have openly said they are not trading him. Plus doesn’t add up in cape space and they will get better offers.
Trade Barbosa
The Raptors have too much building still ahead of them to make it worthwhile keeping him around. Letting him play out the year in TO and then open up cap space is a perfectly fine option, but if they can get a useful asset in a trade then even better.
STILL say
this season is STILL just getting started.
The Raptors will not be understood until their bench is back.
These back to back to back games will only make players see more time and get better in live game action,
Not a big fan of non practice and live game experience only…especially not getting to run through practices before big games…but hell…everybody has this problem.
Can coach use a megaphone courtside?
Or would that be illegal?
A small toy one??
He is sooooo raspy already, I wonder how his players can hear him at all during the live action!
And also say Wolves going to be there this post season
I LIKE their plan…great guards and big men inside.
They seem to have both coming along and soon they will gel.
Barea and Rubio are both fantastic players that didn’t see much time last night. Barea really did not.
These along with their giants inside will eventually…THIS year…come together with the coach and prove me right.
Apology to Buddah
Before the season started I was anti-Amir…thought the contract was too big for a guy who will be coming off the bench when JV comes over, Ed Davis is younger and more potential, and a better contract. Boy was I wrong.
Amir can play either the 4 or 5 effectively, has range out to the free throw line. He is also probably playing like an All-Defensive team canadidiate. While the AB all star talk is dominate the board, Amir definitely needs consideration for this. Last night his offence was outstanding but what about his defence, holding Love to 3-16. That’s under 20% for a guy who scores 24ppg and for his career is 46%.
The raps have not been lit up by a big guy this year and it is largely up to Amir to cover them 1 on 1. The offence he gave us last night is a huge bonus but probably won’t happen consistently. If we keep up this defensive pace (9th opp ppg and 2nd in defensive fg%), someone should get consideration. He is having the Tyson Chandler effect, anchoring the defence of a good defensive team (can’t believe I wrote that and meant it about the raptors). While his numbers don’t jump out like a Dwight Howard or Lebron his quality of play deserve at least the consideration.
I think Amir is one of the few guys in the league who is paid exactly in line with his skillset. The Raptors would have to be stupid to give him up, and he proved why last night. Even in a backup / spot starter role, he’s perfect.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jan 10, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
well...the entire league
is full of these lunch bucket workers.
They do just fill in as needed…but that as needed is a big deal.
In fact, I think IF they had an earlier vote, the lockout would have ended a long time before it did. The lunch bucket workers wanted it over and quick.
THEY knew the loss and the shortness of their careers and were being used by more vocal pretty boy players.
But these worker bees do not speak out for fear of the backlash from the stars.
Ed Davis
I’m not huge into the +/- statistics but couldn’t help but notice this. Amir played 30 minutes, Ed Davis played 17. Total of 47.
The difference in their +/- was 53!!!!!!! Amir was +31 and Davis was -22.
I never thought I would say this but I would prefer to see Jamaal Magloire out there for 15 minutes with the way Davis is playing. This is not about him being young and making mistakes, he is playing horrible, uninspired basketball. I was a huge fan of his before this season but the body language, lack of enthusiasm and effort, accompanied with the mistakes and turnovers is killing us.
I know there is talent there but talent without hardwork is useless. Look at Kris Humphries, the guy is extremely limited in talent but works his tail off every possession and has turned himself into a legit nba starter and double double player. Wake up young man you are being paid 3 million dollars to play a game, at least pretend like you feel lucky.
Minny Comment
Had to like this comment over on one of the Minnesota blogs
http://www.canishoopus.com/2012/1/9/2694033/the-road-to-61-5-clearing-customs-pt-2
respect amir’s hustle
he put his foot up Love’s ass tonight
It pretty much defines how AJ played.
.
If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
thank you....
I actually just scanned through those, interesting to read other people’s thoughts on the game.
Bargs put us over a barrel
Really interesting to hear them talk about Casey and all the positives they have to say.
Casey has done some miracles
If this is the nightly standard of Toronto’s interior D.
Toronto went all in for the win tonight
45 minutes for Bargnani, 40 for Calderon, 40 for Derozen. Sure would like to play them again at the tail end of their back-to-back-to-back
Casey
doesn’t forget
Casey Has Done A Very Good Job So Far
However, lets give credit to Amir’s physical trainer and nutritionist. Without that added 20 pounds of muscle I doubt that Casey’s plan would be working so good. Also, to his credit Andrea has lost weight and is moving a lot better which has helped his offensive game as well as allowing him to play defense at PF which requires a lot more mobility than defense at Center does.
A Little Added Incentive Last Night Besides Having To Defend One Of The NBA's Top Big Men
In the midst of a compressed scheduled, the move seemed to violate every logical rule a coach should abide by. But after two awful games, with the Philadelphia abomination following a horrendous home loss to New Jersey, Casey wanted to send a message to his young team: He wouldn’t stand for this. The schedule is tough for everybody. Deal with it.
"I was actually pissed," power forward Amir Johnson said of the two defeats.
P.S.
The best I ever watched, an admittedly I haven’t watched them all, when he got pissed/angry was Kareem. I know there were and are others who for any reason you never wanted to get pissed/angry but Kareem who was obviously great to begin with became totally unstoppable when he got angry which was not very often.
Kareem who was not a power player but a finesse Big turned into a physical monster when he got angry. He was the Hulk after transformation LOL
premature comments
A little to early to judge players….. yes a few players have stood out and not played as well as they are capable of… barbosa, davis, butler, even derozan. I would say Davis is /to early to write off. Hes figuring out his roll and its only 7 games in… its like pre season still for these guys. Wait till the 20 game mark or so to judge. Once demar can figure out how to stay consistent and drive, the load changes on bargs and others. Amir has been great too
obviously...
you can’t write off a kid but his attitude needs to change. It is unrealistic to expect Bargnani to play 45minutes (even 40 min) every night. In fact tomorrow he will have less energy and then we still have a game on Wednesday. Who are we going to put it? Gray is injured and Magloire was a no show last night (why?). As much as I don’t want to write off a guy this young with potential, this is the NBA and he is a PROFESSIONAL being paid enourmous amounts of money to perform at a high level. This has nothing to do with skill but effort and attitude. He could come in and turn the ball over 5 times and go 0-8 for all I care, if it looked like he cared. I really don’t think that is too much to ask. As much as he needs to find his place on this team, his minutes will keep dropping as long as we are competitive and he is playing so poorly. Its not fair to ask Calderon, Bargnani, Amir and the other guys to play their butts off for 48 minutes while their teammate isn’t trying his hardest. I don’t think that is too much to ask.
His Body Language Has Been Pretty Bad
except in one or two games.
I know he is a smooth player so even when he is going off it doesn’t look like he busting his family jewels but in too many games this season he has looked just plain disinterested to me.
I don’t know what is going on but maybe
1. Casey is telling everyone including his coaching buddies in the NBA that Bargnani is an all-star.
2. Amir is holding his own at Center, which Ed is not big enough nor strong enough to play.
3. Jonas is coming next season.
Yes most of us have only watched a game or two of Jonas at the most, but I have watched him play enough, listened to enough of his English interviews and read enough about him to be pretty sure that he will become the best of the group.
So if I am Ed I am thinking, where the hell am I going to get my minutes from going forward?
Too early to tell but that could become a legit question beginning next season. We shall see.
well
if he does’t produce the answer will be: you are unlikely to get any and as it would mean selling low, he would be unlikely to be traded. So, all in all, he should make sure he has a fire under his bottom.
However all this is hypothetical, I hope we won’t be here talking about him in these terms in a few weeks time.
by renato on Jan 10, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His Body Language Isn't Theoretical
The reason for it yes but it seems logical to me.
If Andrea keeps performing at this level and with Jonas coming, where is Ed going to get his minutes from? Injuries?
I meant
the trading and the sitting scenario. I do not envision it to happen and I wholeheartedly root for Ed to bounce back to be the “bouncing Ed” we know
I Never Said Anything About Trading Him
though others have suggested it.
I doubt that the Raptors will trade him He is worth his pay even if he becomes the 4th Big in the depth chart.
I am more concerned about his effort. He has to learn to play hard even if he is only getting limited minutes. The guy has way too much talent and potential to be hanging his head.
Maybe all this has to do with a personal problem going on right now in his life. Not that I would want that, but whatever the reason he needs to bring it whether it is in five minutes or 20 minutes.
Having said that I think he will play better once Jerryd returns.
Jonas Is No Project
He probably won’t start right away but he will be get his minutes rest assured. With Amir and Jonas splitting the time at Center that means that Ed at best is stuck getting 10 – 15 games a game a PF and that assumes that Amir doesn’t play any PF alongside Jonas.
I like the idea of bringing Jonas off the bench to start. Let him play against second unit guys, gain confidence and beat up on them. Plus if Amir keeps up this play he has at least earned the right to start at C next year. I know every year is different but he is playing his tail off.
I love Jonas’s game and think he is more Pau Gasol than anyone. I know that the FIBA tournaments he dominated were against kids his own age but he did DOMINATE them. There are very few NBA players with his size, athleticism, motor and hands. Plus he is a good free throw shooter. He will need some time to get use to the game in the NBA and develop but should be a real gem.
I think the one thing that is underrated is his self-awareness. His quote at the draft, ‘people probably compare me to Bosh because we are both weak’. He knows where he stands and can put on weight the right way and not lose too much speed.
Plus Casey knows how to get the best out of European big men. haha.
Regarding Jamaal being a no show last night
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/01/09/bargnani-a-beast-as-raptors-beat-timberwolves/
“"Every time I looked to take him out, Amir gets another foul, James Johnson gets another foul," Casey said. "It’s not fair to Jamaal [Magloire] to put him out there to guard [Derrick] Williams out there on the perimeter. They didn’t have a low-post guy after they took [Darko] Milicic out. We were stuck.”
stats
many of you are to hung up on stats…… I think its really funny. Never tells the whole story. if a player is the go to guy…. other teams will double team him, make switches on him. If we had a legit 2 or 3 scorer other then bargs… are team would be good. for u who think hes a 6th man or a bench player… u should learn how to play ball first
DeMar Is An Enigma To Me
I look at him and he looks like he has a Rip Hamilton body without the Rip motor.
DeMar is not strong enough to become a true Power SG. He is a finesse player with a start and stop switch in his motor. He needs to either get a lot stronger or get rid of the the start/stop switch. Just plug him in at game time and watch him go like Rip.
except
no one on this team is getting double teamed.
Stats are a tool. But there is a reason more and more professional sports teams are using them for team building.
As for Bargnani, this year he is playing very well (in general). Mainly due to a level of effort that was unexpected. Is he playing like a starter right now? Sure. Was he for the past 5 years? Not at all.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 10, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
How does Bargnani from 5 years ago have anything to do with Demar Derozan. Demar wasn’t even in the NBA 5 years ago.
Stats are a dangerous tool when used by people with tunnel vision that will manipulate them to prove a point. The fact that Bargnani is brought up into a comparison between DD and Harden is odd, but to bring up 5 years ago when neither was in the NBA demonstrates a pretty big bias and tunnel vision.
my response was to demarD
if he wasn’t refering to Bargnani with
“If we had a legit 2 or 3 scorer other then bargs… are team would be good. for u who think hes a 6th man or a bench player… u should learn how to play ball first”
then my mistake. Although I’m not sure how you got Derozan out of that as Derozan wasn’t even mentioned by him
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 10, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Harden is better off the bounce and a much better shooter, but he still doesn’t have the ‘potential’ of Derozan. I think part of the reason Harder has progressed farther is Harden’s role is clearler.
When he is on the floor and KD/Westb are off he is the main play maker. Which he can do more effectively because of his ability to create off the bounce and shoot the 3. When they are on he is a spot up shooter but can create off of their plays if his defender is forced into a close out situation, usually he is in the flow of the game at this point.
Plus he gets alot more chances in transition because the Thunder are able to get out and run better than the Raptors because they force more turnovers and block more shots.
That Is All True
But none of it explains why DeMar has an on/off button in his motor. He is way to young to need resting periods on the court.
In too many games this season we have watched him do too little for three quarters and then turn it on in the fourth quarter. On top of that I am only talking about his offense.
When it comes to defense Harden and DeMar aren’t even in the same universe.
DeMar
I think he does well when he is matched up against a guy who doesn’t really play hard D on him. What I observed is teams are actually paying attention to him now and taking away his strengths and unfortunately he has struggled to adjust. This tells me he either needs a couple more yrs of experience or is not an elite wing. Either way I’m all for keeping him tho, he brings a lot to the table even if he cant score 20+ every night.
to me he doesn't look like he can give us that consistently
when teams decide to really guard him he’s got nothing in response. Without handles and a crossover move(s), he’s gonna remain limited
the real concern..
Why has Harden developed these skills and Demar hasn’t? They have both been in the NBA the same length of time.
Demar has shown the ability to develop his jump shot, last year it improved from mid range and this year to the three. He know needs the ability to create off the dribble.
Harden could always create tho
he came in with that skillset
Better than DD, but not at an NBA level and he is pretty elite at it these days.
He also had two years of College (unless I’m mistaken) and DD only had 1.
I feel like he is quicker and more explosive than Derozan these days, which surprises me because Derozan’s athleticism has always been considered elite.
DeMar Is Older Than Harden
Not by much but he is older.
Wing players usually develop their games when they are younger. Yes DeMar is still only 22 but with most wing players you pretty much know what you have by the time they are 22.
After that they may refine their offense and improve their defense somewhat but it is pretty much what it is going to be in most cases for Wing players by the time they approach 23.
Ray Allen averaged 20 PPG when he was 22. Of course he had better seasons later on but his career average is 20 PPG just what he scored when he was 22 years old like DeMar.
I have always had a problem with ppl bigging up DeMar's athleticism as elite
the kid is 6’7 and can dunk. His frame makes those dunks look pretty powerful and they are but one on one, DeMar had never had an explosive burst to the basket for dunks. If he’s coming off a curl and catches in motion he keeps than momentum and goes hard to the rim (getting blocked half the time) but one on one, he’s slow as a snail and can’t get past an average defender. So is he athletic, yes, just like 98% of the players in the NBA, but is he explosive, NOPE, watch him in isolations and u’ll see how slow his first step is.
I think a big part of that though
is his lack of ball handling, which limits his ability to beat a defender. I don’t think his general ‘atheleticism’ is a problem, rather a lack of basic basketball skills (for a wing anyways).
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 10, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Agree
Therein lies the problem
Wing players rarely improve their ball handling that much at 22 or older. Almost all Wing players who are great ball handlers have developed a lot of that skill by the time they are in eighth grade or so.
It is too complicated to go into the whole theory behind why Wing players or even Bigs have different levels of ball handling skills but unfortunately I think the door has probably closed on DeMar with regard to any significant future improvement in his ball handling skills.
Like was posted by another. Harden already had the cross-over move in college. He also probably already had it in high school.
I was actually going to post about how consistent Demar has been the last three games. Which isn’t a good thing. His offence has been brutal and he is not an elite defender. Harden is definitely more polished than Derozan at both ends, I’m not arguing that but the reasons why.
Part of it could definitely have to do with Demar never having played for a real NBA coach. Yes I am calling Brooks a better coach than Triano. It is becoming obvious that Triano was out of his comfort zone in the NBA. It will be interesting to see how Casey effect Demar’s overall game.
I think Harden fell into the perfect spot for him and Derozan has had poor coaching and inconsistency.
i dont think its an on and off button, i think he's still learning what to do out there
every team they play brings different dynamics to the table and its sometimes hard to figure out where to get your shots, especially when plays arent being run for u.
It Should Never Be Hard In The First or Even Second Quarter
Most NBA teams don’t play serious defense until the fourth quarter. That is the real paradox with DeMar. He does very little early in games when teams defense is only so, so but has turned it on in the fourth quarter.
Maybe because teams are now more focused on him he has not been able to turn it on in the fourth quarter lately. However, that is no excuse for not being able to put up good numbers in the first three quarters, especially in the first quarter.
thats not true, when teams come to play they play their best D in the first 2 Qs bec
they are fresh. it usually falls apart ofr a while until the 4th when they pick it up again.
You Are Totally Wrong On This
In fact you couldn’t be more wrong if you had never watched a basketball game in your life.
SMH
i watch the raps and just using them as an example in their last 2 losses they
started well, playing decent D and then faded. We’ll agree to disagree
You Are Wrong
Last game.
Minn points by quarter starting with Q1
25
24
20
18
There are so many reasons why teams play tougher defense in the 4th quarter and that is just how it is, if they are a winning team. Losing teams who play lousy defense don’t count in the equation.
However, when you play against a good defensive team they will almost always turn up the heat on defense in the last quarter if the game is close. Obviously if the game is not close in the 4th quarter there is not need to turn up the defense in the fourth quarter.
I have often agreed to disagree, but not in this case when your opinion goes against the #1 rule in winning close games i.e., Turn up the defense in the 4th quarter
If I were Raps mgmt I'd be looking to use Ed and my second round pick to
acquire another pick in this draft. Amir and Bargs aren’t going anywhere and Jonas is coming so as stated above, there really isn’t room for Ed unless he out performs the others. So far this season he hasn’t been close to out performing anyone so maybe he sees the writting on the wall. From a management standpoint tho, he is an asset that could land us some depth in the SF, SG or PG position all of which lack real talent outside of the starters. In the case of SF we don’t really have a player who is starting material. Ed could get us a draft pick which we could use to fill out the roster.
Yep – Barnes or MKG with our pick, Ed and our 2nd for a late lotto pick to grab a PG prospect. Tada – successful 2012 draft.
by dhackett1565 on Jan 10, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
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