Guidelines for assessing players

by Newmarket Brian on Jan 9, 2012 10:29 AM EST

"Big men mature later" - attributed to Bud Grant, NFL Hall of Fame coach

While the early struggles of Bargnani are all too well known to us Raps fans, I didn't jump on the "Amnesty the guy" bandwagon, nor the prior "He's a bust - trade him" version. He was very young when drafted, and since he never tanked like Vince, nor pouted in the press about how nasty everyone was to him, I thought we would do well to be patient. His body was behind his brain for several years, but I think he's over that.

"Potential gets coaches fired" - Sam Mitchell, former Raps' coach

Admirably succinct! You all remember Waiting for Godot, er, Joey Graham to demonstrate that his prodigious raw talent could be translated into a capable, consistent NBA player. It never happened. I think Joey might actually have overtrained, building up his muscles but losing his quickness. His upper body was too wide, and he was constantly drawing offensive fouls, because he couldn't twist around savvy, in-position defenders. Joey passed up routine shots in favour of spectacular ones, and that's really hard to sustain.

"Did you see those meathooks?" - an unknown NBA scout, after meeting a then-unknown Julius Erving

Although we're trying to forget him, we all remember Rafael Araujo. The guy was out of shape, a point conceded by Wayne Embry when I brought it up at a season-ticket holder's event. However, even an in-shape Hoffa would have struggled. Unlike Dr. J, Hoffa had small hands.

"Pick the skinny guy" - Newmarket Brian

The NBA is incredibly demanding on the body, particularly the joints. If you are pre-disposed to carrying extra bulk (like Araujo) you're a candidate to break down. You're also unable to sidestep unwanted contact. From Kareem to Kevin Garnett, from Jerry West to Steve Nash, it's the skinny, mobile guys that have the long careers.

Tweet Comment 4 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Considering Our Past

we have picked the skinny guy. other than the aruajo mistake, Bargnani was clearly number 1 when we drafted him(different circumstance when picking first, ask the NFL Indy Colts, you take the best talent available regardless of roster). Other than those two, skinny is all we’ve had. Bosh was skinny, Ed Davis is skinny, Marcus Camby was skinny, that skinny Alibi is gone.
Greg Oden isn’t going to have a long career by the looks of things, but what if he’d had have developed into the next Superman. The high end of a big man will always be bigger than there slanky counterparts, you can’t teach size.
Every case is different, and no big man wins alone. Andrea (i believe) got intimidated by the men he had to defend when he entered the league. Landscape is changing and its affecting Bargnani in a good way. Instead of watching Garnett, Duncan, Oneal, Gasol, and other bigs beat him in every way, these players are gone or losing their step. Andrea is in his prime and all he mostly sees is youth defending him now, plus having to only defend teams PF rather than the C helps.
Before we throw the season away, and begin discussing your slanky forward vs my lengthy guards, lets see if around game 35 if the game slows down for Derozan and Bargnani gets the help he needs on offence. With a strong D maybe we can make a strong run when it matters, the second half of the seaon.

by nwobigboy on Jan 9, 2012 11:21 AM EST reply actions

Umm so how do:

“Big men mature later” and “Potential gets coaches fired” (love the irony in this one by the way) work together? Aren’t they 2 competing ideas?

I actually disagree with #1. Big men don’t mature any later (as a whole) than any other ‘type’ of player. You are just often going to see what a big man or a small man are capable of within a similar time frame. “Big men mature later” has just become an excuse for GMs who blew their early draft picks on a 7fter who didn’t pan out. No GM or coach says “wasn’t expecting this guy to be this good this soon, after all he is a big man”.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 9, 2012 11:41 AM EST reply actions

You have a point, but....

….if you google “Big men mature later”, you will be surprised (I was!) at how accepted a precept this is. And not just in b-ball. Bud was talking about his huge defensive line of the early ’70s. Your point that #1 & #2 seem contradictory has validity, but not absolutely so. Andrea struggled early, but he was not shy about taking & making a number of 3s. He was contributing, and we all hoped that he would learn to avoid the ticky-tack fouls he was getting that kept him off the floor. Joey, a smaller & more physically mature man on draft day, would give us about 1 good game for every 5 mediocre or worse ones. He never got beyond the flashes-of-greatness stage. Above all, management must have good judgement. Joey, who never improved, needed to go. We just had to wait for Andrea.

by Newmarket Brian on Jan 9, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions

ofcourse not

absolutely so… as none of the guidelines are absolutes.

The main difference between drafting bigs and other positions is the simple idea “you can’t teach 7ft”. So while GMs are willing to draft ‘raw’ players who are 7ft tall, they rarely do that for more average sized players. Yet the big men who are truelly talented, generally, show it in short order just like any other position. Dwight, Shaq, Patrick Ewing, Davide Robinson, Tim Duncan etc etc. The ones who play a role show it in short order. Its the ‘raw’ players who take longer to come along (ex. Javal McGee), but that rawness is usually unacceptable in a PG, SG or SF position. But ofcourse the raw ones who never made it are lost somewhere in basketball limbo, forgotten.

Andrea has been the same player for 3 years now… the difference is this year he is actually putting in an effort. Its not like he has suddenly developed a jump shot, an ability to drive, or post moves (ok still not using this but I’ll give him the benift of the doubt)… he is just using them differently now.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 9, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions