RaptorsHQ Rapid Recap: Toronto Raptors 90 - New York Knicks 85
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jan 2, 2012 10:33 PM EST
in Raptors Rapid Recap
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Print- The Toronto Raptors grinded out a win in the Mecca of Basketball, defeating the Amar'e Stoudemire-less New York Knicks 90-85. The Raptors held the Knicks to 35.9 percent shooting overall and just 28.6 percent from beyond the arc.
- The Raptors were on fire in the first half, shooting 58.3 percent to take a 17-point lead into the lockerroom. Andrea Bargnani was perfect from the field - but seemed to do a bit of a disappearing act after a 4-for-4 effort in the first quarter. And DeMar DeRozan showed flashes of aggressiveness while matching his season average of 16 in the first half.
- Contrast that with the Knicks who shot just 28.2 percent after two quarters. Take away the five 3-pointers and it could've been a lot uglier for the Knicks.
- Although Toney Douglas torched the nets in the third quarter to shave eight points off the lead, the Raptors finished strong.
- Carmelo Anthony dropped 13 points in the fourth quarter, as the Knicks closed to within one on two occasions. But the Raptors really made Melo work for his points this evening. He shot just 13-for-31 from the field to get his 35 points. Outside of the streaky Douglas, Melo carried the team offensively.
- Bargnani played the closer with under a minute to go, nailing a jumper and then getting fouled on consecutive possessions. He hit two free throws with 17.7 seconds left to put the Raptors up three, 88-85. Bargnani has now scored 20 or more in four consecutive games.
- The corpse of Rasual Butler also woke up to post a double-double (13 points and 10 rebounds). He nailed three 3-pointers while giving James Johnson and Gary Forbes splinters.
- Overall, it was nice to see the young, rebuilding Raptors bend but not break on one of the biggest stages in pro basketball.
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Would of accepted a loss
because of the upcoming lottery……..
but consider this a nice little win picked up. Coming on the tail end of a road trip, props to the boys! Good effort given in all games. Credit to the coaching.
Felt the W was important, because the team deserved one. Bargnani and Calderon have really played well and nice to see Demar getting to the line.
Don't Know
But Ed should play better when Bayless returns.
They have a nice chemistry on the court.
Two Things
1. Raptors are now 2 – 2 on the road to open the season. This is probably better than most would have expected before the season started.
2. R. Butler showed that he can still bring it once in a while. The Raptors get a SF that can average 15+ points a game; Klieza maybe, they will be pretty good.
I wouldn’t say playoffs but pretty good. Certainly better than most expected before the season starts.
Driving the bus
Andrea
DeMar
Under the bus
It was a road win so no one goes under the bus.
The next stretch of games
should give us an indication of where we currently belong. Cleveland, Jersey, Philly, Minny(Renato – who’s their backup PG?) Washington and Sacramento. Definately some lottery bound teams in there.
i'd be annoyed if we ended up with a pick in the 8th to15th spot
and it looks like this team has a pulse so we maybe looking at a pick in that range or lower at this rate.
5 games in and y'all are already talking lottery picks?
is that some sort of record?
by craig in calgary on Jan 2, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
This is going to be a bad first post here.
But why so much negativity. Support the team man.
"And I'm like forget Yuuuuuu"
How is caring about the long term future of the team negative?
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
It certainly wouldn’t address the need for top tier talent to pair with Valanciunas. I’d like to see two potential ROY candidates in the Raps starting lineup next season.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jan 2, 2012 11:58 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I Want To See Two Raptors Rookies Next Season
who know that basketball is a team sport and it takes defense and hard work to win. They will have one in Jonas. I could care less where the other rookie is drafted.
There have been many “winners” who team first that aren’t a top five pick.
Lots of winners outside the top 5, but the fact of the matter is that if you want that elite player (which the Raptors need) then the top 5 is, by far, the best place to find one.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Last Year The Mavs
had two top five picks on their roster the same number the Raptors will have next season.
Rasuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!
Clutch 3 pointers.
Paul Jones called it great. Very good game Raptors, keep playing defense.
We Want Wins
We should try to win as many games as possible. Dropping games because we want a high lottery pick is not the way to do things. If anything, we can trade our players for high draft picks when the time comes. Right now, I want the Raptors to play their hearts out. Everyone wants that. When that happens, you win games. It’s as simple as that.
I want what is best for the Raptors future, but giving up on a season for lottery picks is not the right thing to do. We help our roster by giving the appropriate players their minutes, which will help them develop. If wins come, then wins come. If Raps lose, then they lose. As long as progress is being made, I don’t care what the outcome is for the lottery.
Yes, the Raptors should try and win because it’s not as if the Raptors have not fielded a mediocre team for the last 16 years by doing exactly that, have they.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
You’re fine with a mediocre team. I’m not.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
+1 to keepit4real
These guys have been playing balls out with Casey’s pound the rock approach towards defense and hustle, Bargnani included (which is a miracle given his trend the last few seasons), yet I keep reading negative comments as to how the Raptors should be tanking for a lottery pick. Let’s appreciate what we finally have here in here Toronto: a bonafide hardworking team that will bust their ass every night and hold each other accountable on D, while still having young guys like Barg and DeRozan who are confident and capable enough to shoulder the load on O.
Bottom line is that we’ve got JV (possibly the steal of 2011 draft) coming next year to fill a need, as well as an impact pick in the 8-15 range where in this year’s deep draft it’s no different than a 3rd-6th pick in nearly any other year. Complaining that a hard fought win like this holds us back is really frustrating to see coming from fellow Raptor fans. At least things are headed in the right direction.
by Clark's Moustache on Jan 3, 2012 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
Bottom line...
Do the Raptors have an elite player on the roster?
Having a hard working team is great, but in the end, that doesn’t guarantee you anything more than a mediocre team that fights for a playoff team year in and year out. In other words, exactly where the Raptors have been for the last 16 years.
I find it amazing that so many Raptor fans have apparently not learned from the past.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
I’ll take a hardworking mediocre team over that crap we had to go through last year any day. My point is that the improvement painfully obvious already and we all need to stop being so sour about not striking it rich in the last 10 years and landing a LeBron. Elite players sell tickets but having one doesn’t guarantee you success either.
Who was the elite player on the 2004 Pistons?
by Clark's Moustache on Jan 3, 2012 3:08 AM EST up reply actions
Ben Wallace
and even if you don’t agree with him being ‘elite’ can you name one other team to win without an elite player? Can you name one other team to make the finals without an elite player? Can you name a team to make it to the east or west finals without an elite player?
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 3, 2012 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
In the last 40+ years in the NBA, only one Championship team did not feature an All NBA FIrst Team player or former First Team player. And that team featured a four time Defensive Player of the Year and one of the best clutch players in the last decade, both All NBA Second Team players.
The team also featured 5 All-Stars.
And the 2004 playoffs had a Lakers team that was on the verge of imploding due to Kobe and Shaq, an injured Spurs team, and a VERY weak Eastern Conference that only had two teams win more than 47 games, and the only other team that did also didn’t have an elite player on it (Indiana).
So you point to a team that was a an incredible exception that we’ll probably never see again, and think they’re a model to try and copy?
Are you nuts?
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
That's Outright Bashing
We don’t even know if the Raptors have an elite player or not because we haven’t developed the roster! Our players are not proven yet. We can’t just assume that everyone on the Raptors (especially the newly added players) are downright mediocre. There can be hidden gems. We need to play through this season the right way.
Think about the players at least. If you were a player, would you want to play for the Raptors if they are planning to drop the season? No way! You, as a player, would want to give it your all and play to win. That is a player’s mentality, and rightfully so. I bet everyone was so much more confident after tonight’s win, and that’s what I like to see. I want these players to start believing in themselves. If we keep dropping seasons for elite draft picks, then players are going to want to leave.
I have a lot of faith in this team. You may not, but I do. I been through the years of losing and it sucks. But when you have a coach that wants to win as many games as possible, and is willing to help this team in anyway possible, then we have a winner.
I'm pretty sure
It’s easy to spot an elite play within one season (actually, it’s pretty much easy to spot most of them before they even enter the league, but let’s be conservative).
That’s not to say that there isn’t talent to be developed in the Raptors roster. This is a pretty young team and there’s room for growth. However, most of the current roster is, and always will be, filler. That is, useful players who can fill a role, but not all-stars. There are some players who might be all-stars in the future (or essentially, players who might be starters or 6th men on any team), but I don’t see any current player who is an elite player.
Outright bashing????
You think there is an elite player on this roster? Really?
It’s incredibly rare that an elite player comes out of nowhere in the NBA, and there isn’t one player on the current Raptors roster that has shown to have elite potential. I think there could be an All-Star or two, but that’s not the same as an elite player. You tend to see whether a player has elite potential after one season.
And I know a lot of fans are sick of losing, but if you’ve followed the team for it’s entirety, then you’ve got to be just as sick as I am of teams that compete, but simply don’t have the talent to do any real damage in the playoffs.
For an NBA team to truly contend, they need an elite player, and Bargnani, DeRozan nor Ed Davis are ever going to be elite players.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Dude
do you even follow basketball? How often do players (not named Chris Paul) get traded for high lottery picks? Certainly no on on the Raptors is going to command that kind of price.
First, of course I follow basketball.
Second, players do get traded for lottery picks. I can’t say anyone on the Raptors (as of yet) may be traded for lottery picks, but it may be possible. We don’t know anything yet for sure, I was just throwing out ideas. Unless you’re the GM in disguise, I don’t think you know for sure either.
Considering that the Raptor don’t even have an All-Star on their roster, why do you think another team is going to give up a potential franchise player (a high lottery pick in a good year) for a decent player?
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
its wide open
maybe they make the 8th seed, play in the playoffs and get some confidence
maybe they lose Calderon, (right hammy) and they fail to win 15 games
maybe they crap out and miss the playoffs by a couple games and we pick 15th
that’s why you play the game. Right now I hope we win every game but I couldn’t help but hope for Melo to keep lighting it up at the end and winning. I want ping pong balls but I love the effort and the result.
Maybe next years draft is so deep we can find a hidden gem in the middle of the first round. Truthfully, the best way for us to win is to get the right player in the draft next year. Ping pong. The more games we play like this, maybe we need to adjust our plans to pick high next year. I don’t think Casey cares about how high we pick and I like that about him but its a long season. So far Casey is the coach of the year in my books, but it’s very early.
Go Raps
I don’t think the players or coach should worry about getting a high lottery pick, but the organization should damn well worry about it. And the Raptors don’t need a “gem”. They need an elite player. And the chances of finding one outside the top 5 are miniscule.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Some good points above aboout maybe not appreciating the good start to the season
I don’t want to give the impression I am not happy to see the Raps play well. I would like to see this team win some games but in the long run a high draft pick in 2012 could potentially land this team an elite talent which puts us in a position to not only win games and make the playoffs, but actually move on past the first couple of rounds.
What’s the point of squeezing into the playoffs in a 66 game season, getting easily bounced out of the first round and then drafting average talent in the 15-19 range? Haven’t we been down that road before? Not making the playoffs one year, then barely making the playoffs and getting bounced out of the first round the next, then no playoffs for 2or3 yrs, then making the playoffs and then bounced out of the first round again, then back to a few more years of no playoffs. I’m tired of that, and that’s the only reason I (for the first time in my 15 yrs as a raptor fan) don’t mind losing and getting a high draft pick. Traditionally I despise the idea of “tanking” because it goes against what I believe in at my core. The 2012 draft however has some absolute gems that would look great in a raps uniform. For one year and one year only I’m okay with us losing some games. After we get a high 2012 draft pick its back to craving those Ws and hunting for that playoff spot.
it doesn’t work that way.. If you tell your guys you’re willing to lose, that’s the mindset they adopt and it sucks to come to work every day but that’s the way it is. You can’t just turn it back on after telling them it was alright to tank for a year. There has been no respect gained in that situation, no respect earned, and no respect learned. Do your best and let the ping pong balls do what they do.
No one is suggesting that we tell the players to go out and lose. That is why you sign players like Magloire and Butler, they can fill minutes but are not going to make you significantly better this year. Tanking is a management concept, not a player one.
by McGateway on Jan 3, 2012 7:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1000
Tanking is a loaded word. The fact this year is focused on development says it all. Promising players are being given a chance to show their stuff, in the hopes that we can grow some Made in Toronto solutions that aren’t just quick fix. This is decision is made on the management level, as McGateway said, by not adding veterans that take minutes from those that need them. Coaches and players need only concern themselves with winning games, it is the best way to raise both their individual and collective stock.
are some of you for real?
I mean, have you even played competition sports?
For the rest of us, even getting the best price on a dozen eggs gets the best of our competitive spirit!
REAL athletes cannot walk onto a floor and “think” lottery"!
It is simply not possible.
It’s not even in their DNA!
You play every moment to win. Even against your mother, you win. The players now on the Raptors want to beat every team they play. They collect a paycheck that reminds them they play hard and leave it all on the floor.
Hell! Their coach is pacing the sidelines shooting looks that would kill the average poster on this sight! You think he will let his players think “lottery” pick!?
Hell no!
I say damn the lottery, play to win every possession and every game. Play like YOU have only a pro life of 3 years, which is the average NBA career!
YOU play like you need to sit at the table in July and get resigned. You care little about the team’s lottery chances.
Great work last night by lots of guys. Tired legs in the 4th made me worry, but a few key shots and defensive stances carried the fourth for us.
Really proud of the work.
I hate New York!
on tanking
I am not sure why fans want a team to tank for a lottery pick….. maybe a couple franchise players in the draft but even if we do tank we might not even get that player. not many teams build from tanking..the top teams dont…. maybe OKC since they sucked for a few years and did get Durant. if tanking happens here… fans dont show up, players want to leave, so I am not sure why people want that… we have some nice pieces right now so if we improve and get better with our young players, isn’t that good for there morale? they will love it here and not want to leave. Besides casey and well the whole team doesn’t want to loose so why dont you tell players to tank when they dont know where they going to be next year. so lets say we tank…. or so called tank and loose a lot of games which I dont see happening. we will have a lot of cap space the next year but no one to use it on… then end up signing the players we currently have for big contracts to just keep them here and get some so called franchise player if that ever happens. Fans will continue to bitch and complain that we tanked when it does happen and the list goes on. If we win some games, make the playoffs i can almost guarantee you bargs and demar have had good seasons and have improved. Then addition of Big V and we looking good. Then to attract really good free agent in off season becomes a little bit more attainable since they would consider it. Tanking does not solve problems trust me…..
Beat the Knicks!
I would love for the Raptors to get a high draft pick in the upcoming draft. Preferably due to a little luck in the lottery after a not-so-bad season. As far as wins and losses go, I would love to see the Raptors pick up their wins against the teams that I dislike such as the Knicks and Heat, while losing against teams that I don’t mind like the Bulls and Thunder. Of course, life never works out as conveniently as you want it to.
As far as the team philosophy this season, I think the roster is still sparse enough in talent that finishing near the playoffs is still a pretty improbably scenario. I hope to see them give their all every night and for the youngsters to improve and learn to play hard. If this line-up finished with a draft pick worse than 10th overall I would be pretty surprised.
Great Discussion
I love the discussion going on here. To make it short, I’m happy that the raptors are playing hard and buying into Casey’s system. It’s a good sign that if we can actually pick up some more natural talent am may be closer to competing for a conference championship (maybe in 3 years). At the same time, I want a top draft pick for 2012. We could really use a top draft pick in this draft. Everything we have ever accomplished successfully in Toronto was derived from a top 9 pick (Carter, McGrady, Camby, and Stoudamire to name a few). However, the problem in short is that we haven’t been able to win (seriously win, not just a first or second round playoff appearance) when they were here, and therefore they left. I know there were other problems here and there,but if a team is winning, almost every play is willing to make sacrafices. They want a ring. My only concern is that if we get an 8-15 pick this year, we won’t be able to develop this pick by the time our current “elite” players contracts start to expire. I have a feeling that the raptors are going to be closer to a playoff team this year than most people expect. And therefore, gasp, I think we should trade our pick. I think other teams will give us top 5 value for our pick whereas In reality I think we are going to be a 12-15 pick team. Don’t get me wrong, I want more than anything to see Michael Kidd Gilchrist in a Raptors uniform. I think he is extremely underrated, and I have a feeling he might slide to 7-12 because he is very raw. However, if we can trade our pick for a small forward that is already developed and proven, why not? In short, I like Rudy Gay. He is proven, yet still young (25). His contract is massive, but we will have the cap space to absorb it. He can also play defense. He is average over 8 rebounds a game this year and, when in shape, is a 20 point per game player and an all star candidant. We would have a legitimate chance to make the playoffs this year, as well as get off to a jump start next year (with our starting small forward already understanding Casey’s system). I simply think we can get more value for our pick if we trade it now. Remember when Casey was in Minnesota? He went 20-20 before he was fired. The team then went 12-30 without him. If the raptors win half their games this year, they will most likely be playoff bound. It is also important to note that the raptors team this year has better players to work with then the 2006-2007 Minnesota team that Casey had (except Garnett, although he didn’t buy into Casey’s system). The raptors also have a harder schedule at the start of this year before finishing off with more home games to historically easier teams.
So is content
With all due respect, adding 3 or 4 paragraphs will not make it easier to read. The last time I checked, this a blog, not English class. I will however keep your needs in mind the next I post.
I would have put content in my comment
But I couldn’t plow through the wall of text and it’s not fair for me to comment on something I didn’t read.
I disagree that breaking your comment into three or four paragraphs will not make it easier to read. Paragraphs exist to organize your content and to break up your text into digestible chunks. For example:
I love the discussion going on here. To make it short, I’m happy that the raptors are playing hard and buying into Casey’s system. It’s a good sign that if we can actually pick up some more natural talent am may be closer to competing for a conference championship (maybe in 3 years).
At the same time, I want a top draft pick for 2012. We could really use a top draft pick in this draft. Everything we have ever accomplished successfully in Toronto was derived from a top 9 pick (Carter, McGrady, Camby, and Stoudamire to name a few). However, the problem in short is that we haven’t been able to win (seriously win, not just a first or second round playoff appearance) when they were here, and therefore they left.
I know there were other problems here and there,but if a team is winning, almost every play is willing to make sacrafices. They want a ring. My only concern is that if we get an 8-15 pick this year, we won’t be able to develop this pick by the time our current "elite" players contracts start to expire. I have a feeling that the raptors are going to be closer to a playoff team this year than most people expect. And therefore, gasp, I think we should trade our pick. I think other teams will give us top 5 value for our pick whereas In reality I think we are going to be a 12-15 pick team. Don’t get me wrong, I want more than anything to see Michael Kidd Gilchrist in a Raptors uniform. I think he is extremely underrated, and I have a feeling he might slide to 7-12 because he is very raw. However, if we can trade our pick for a small forward that is already developed and proven, why not?
In short, I like Rudy Gay. He is proven, yet still young (25). His contract is massive, but we will have the cap space to absorb it. He can also play defense. He is average over 8 rebounds a game this year and, when in shape, is a 20 point per game player and an all star candidant. We would have a legitimate chance to make the playoffs this year, as well as get off to a jump start next year (with our starting small forward already understanding Casey’s system). I simply think we can get more value for our pick if we trade it now.
Remember when Casey was in Minnesota? He went 20-20 before he was fired. The team then went 12-30 without him. If the raptors win half their games this year, they will most likely be playoff bound. It is also important to note that the raptors team this year has better players to work with then the 2006-2007 Minnesota team that Casey had (except Garnett, although he didn’t buy into Casey’s system). The raptors also have a harder schedule at the start of this year before finishing off with more home games to historically easier teams.
Now that I've actually read it
You cannot go for the playoffs and also get a top draft pick at the same time unless you make some sort of trade. I don’t see a single player on the Raptors roster that would make a bad team give up an unprotected lottery pick to acquire. so that is out of question.
Yes, the team is looking much better this year, but it’s very shallow. One injury to a main starter, particularly to Jose, and this team becomes horrible. Gay will not improve the team significantly enough to guarantee them a playoff spot. Even if they miraculously do get a playoff spot, they’ll get easily hammered in the first round. So, you’ve sacrificed your first round pick to accomplish what? This has been what the Raptors have done for the first 16 years of existence. You said it yourself. Any accomplishment has come from a top 9 pick. Why not try and get another one to really help the team in the future, especially when the current roster has major holes in it?
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