Tip-In: "Ugly" - Celts End Losing Streak, Extend Raptors’ in a Laugher
The Toronto Raptors suffered an embarrassing loss at the hands of the Boston Celtics last night. The HQ's Scott Campsall has your recap of all the low lights, including the performance of Demar Derozan.
Last night's game was a matchup of two teams that had lost five consecutive games coming in; both teams were desperate for a win, but unfortunately for Raptor fans, only one team played like it-and it wasn't the Raptors.
The Boston Celtics put on a show for their home crowd, pounding the Toronto Raptors 96-73 and handing them their 6th consecutive loss.
The game itself was a tale of two halves for the Dino's. Despite some serious struggles in the first quarter, the Raptors started out the second quarter with a 9-2 run. The Raps' bench guys vastly outplayed the Celtics weak bench; Doc Rivers realized this and quickly reinserted his starters into the game. This move paid immediate dividends as the Celtics responded with a 5-0 run, but Toronto withstood the Celtics push, and fought back; closing the quarter strong, cutting down the first half deficit to just 6 points.
In the third the horror show began.
Simply put, the Celtics flat out beat the Dinos in the second half, and ultimately the game. The Raps lost every major statistical category; they got outrebounded 45-38. The free throw differential was again large-the Raptors attempted 20 free throws to the Celtics 32. The Celtics shot 48% from the floor and 37% from beyond the 3-point arc, whereas the Raptors shot a measly 35% from the floor and a dismal 27% from downtown.
The effort was not there offensively or defensively, and Toronto did not look like a team that had any interest in ending their 6 game losing streak. The Celtics wanted this game more, and it showed. Boston outhustled Toronto and beat them to the punch on what seemed like every single play in the second half.
There is no doubt that this team misses the presence of Andrea Bargnani, and the rigors of this condensed schedule are most certainly having an effect on the team, but the truth of the matter is that the Dinos appear to be coming back down to earth after an impressive start that had fans thinking that maybe this team was better than originally thought.
In a game like this, the Raptors need to have a player they can rally around, and lean on to get them going. With Bargnani out, that player should be DeMar DeRozan. Last night again though, the Raps looked his way, and he was nowhere to be found.
The 22 year old shooting guard showed definite promise last season, but has been the team's biggest disappointment this year. DeRozan's inability to step up in Bargnani's absence has fans as well as members of the media questioning his long term viability as the Raptors' starting shooting guard.
His performance in this contest did little to dispel that opinion. DeRozan had 10 points in a promising first half, a solid output, but when things got tough for the Raptors he folded; totaling just 1 point in the second half. DeMar shot just 4-16 which included a number of weak drives to the bucket, and some suspect shot selection. Handling the ball also proved to be an adventure for DeRozan-he turned the ball over a game high 5 times which lead to a number of run outs and momentum building plays for the C's.
Looking back on this one there weren't many highs for the Raptors. The play of Gary Forbes-18 points in 18 minutes-and the return of Aaron Gray, albeit in unmemorable fashion, would serve as minor positives in an overall disappointing effort for the Raps in this game.
The Dino's will get a day of rest tomorrow before heading back to Toronto to take on the Trail Blazers, one of the league's early season surprises. If the Raptors don't bring more of an effort against the Blazers I wouldn't expect much of a different outcome on Friday night.
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Some things are becoming obvious...
Demar Derozan
I have always thought that assist:turnover ratio is a strong indicator of basketball IQ. While assists or turnovers alone can be misleading because it is effected by how the offence is run and scoring opportunities, assist:turnver ratio is related to a players ability to read the defence and find open teammates, while taking care of the ball. For example, Deron Williams leads the NBA in turnovers, however he has the ball in his hands all the time, so his turnvoers should be higher. This is also reflected in his assists where he is near the to in the NBA and he is in the top 50 in NBA a:to ratio. Right now Demar has a 0.56:1 ratio, or almost 2 turnovers for every assist, and only has 2 assists in his last 6 games, and is shooting 40% for the season. While he may have improved his talent, his IQ is not at a level that is allowing him to use his skills, and he is forcing his game. I still think he can be good but right now he is just a step behind everyone.
Talent
or lack there of, while we were all enjoying the early ride, this is what the season is going to be. We simply do not have enough talent to compete for a playoff spot this year; Amir, Andrea and Jose have been good this year and we are still losing; the injuries have been crippling to a thin team but even healthy this was what we projected the season to be.
Last year we scored over 100 ppg and we were awful, this year we are top 10 in ppg allowed and we are still losing. At some point it becomes not about the coaching but that the fact that when NBA games tighten up, talent takes over and we do not have enough.
Casey
hopefully get some practice time in. Especially on offense. While the real story to this game was that again, the Raptors simply didn’t have near the talent of their opponent to make a game of it, you have to ask some serious questions about coach Dwane Casey’s offensive sets. Yes, there hasn’t been much time at all to ingrain said sets into the team’s offensive thinking, but game after game of perimeter jump shots must have some fans wondering if Bryan Colangelo essentially hired Jay Triano’s opposite.
That was from last nights rapid recap, and while their is truth in the Raptors reliance on jumpshots this year, how can Casey be responsible when the team is lacking talent? We have all complained about Butler, all watch Johnson shoot (or try to shoot), seen Demar and Ed struggles, Bayless and Bargnani hurt. The only player who even remotely demands a double team is out, and its no wonder the team has faltered. The reason there is no democracy on offense is beacuse Bargnani is simply more talented than the rest of the team offensively.
So before we attack Casey with pitchforks and torches lets remember what he has to work with, and if we want a culture change there is going to be growing pains.
To be fair
With Andrea in we lost the last games at the tale end of B2B and B2B2B. BTW can we put the “they team plays the same or better without Andrea” argument to sleep? Now we have finally seen Ed Davis can have a double double in 10 minutes but his number do not go up with extended play as he is a nightmare offensively. It should be also clear that opposing teams, if Andrea is present, prepare their game against him, so, also his last year offensive efficiency figures have to take this into account. This team (the Raptors, not this very team) , minus Andrea were a bottom seeder so much they got #1 selection. I do not expect them to become a playoffs team when #7 (and JB) get back. I expect them to be watchable however. Putting JV and an elite SF (draft) next year would make a huge difference as it will improve both the starters and the bench.
Wasn't going to bring it up...
As I was the one involved in that Andrea argument I was going to just let it ride, but since you did…..
Does this team miss Andrea? Again a resounding HELL YEA!
Yep…I was of the mind that we needed a few more games to say for certain one way versus another, but the last two have me solidly in the “this team is terrible without Andrea.”
That should not be confused however with, “this team is still bad with Andrea.”
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 19, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll say that.
“This team is still bad with Andrea.” I will cheer for them everytime but when you are excited for the return of a player who is coming off seriosu knee surgery with a career high of 11ppg, things are bad. That would be our SF position.
Our bench is thin, we are banged up (JB, AB, Amir, Gray) and while it looks like we are getting healthier our bench is still thin and unproven. On top of all this our young guns are not handling the new responsibilities well.
We are a bad team when healthy, but I feel alot better about our future with how AB, Amir and Jose are playing. Amir and Bargnani while they are not puppies like Ed and DD are not old, and Jose hopefully has a few good years left in him. So it looks like we may have a few positions locked up for the next few years. Add JV and a high draft pick, and there is light on the horizon, if not a blazing sun.
Sorry just to confirm, the way you wrote this comment, it sounds like you are saying this team ISN’T still bad with Andrea. Was that you’re intent? If so totally disagree. This team is terrible with Andrea. As terrible as they were last night, probably not, but terrible enough.
to clarify...
Terrible without Andrea
Really Bad with Andrea.
I still disagree
there is no doubt Andrea would have helped Toronto put a few points on the board in the last game…. they still aren’t winning. The three prior games, aren’t changing either.
Don’t forget this wasn’t exactly Toronto’s first blowout of the season… just the first blowout without Andrea there.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 19, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
at least...
you agree we are better with andrea.
correction
I said Toronto would have put a few points on the board.
Not suprised that is confused with being ‘better’
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 19, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
its funny...
on so many points i agree with you but we but heads on this one thing. haha
While it's hard to argue against this based on this season's results so far...
… you’ll excuse me if I don’t make a final call on this until a full season’s results are in… Who knows, based on Bargnani’s track record, he might be the first NBA player to retire due to a strained calf…
Lets not go crazy by forgiving Barney with his struggles last year on teams scheming against him because that is bull. Every good player has to deal with this and yet most of them manage just fine.
Demar and Casey
Further to the points you’re raising around assist/turnover ratio, I think it needs to be added that his ratio is so bad because frankly, he doesn’t get assists. Furthermore, he doesn’t rebound, block shots, get steals, draw fouls (and put pressure on the D), play exceptional defence etc… In fact, he doesn’t really contribute much in any other statistical category. That’s even more concerning than his offensive struggles. The fact that he has little to no impact on the game unless he’s hitting shots.
As for the overall talent level… Anyone blaming Casey for this team’s offensive ineptitude doesn’t understand basketball. First of all, this team has no one (besides arguably Bayless – who’s been out) to break down the defence off the bounce or a legitimate post-up threat. So guess what, the team is going to shoot a lot of jumpers. Regarding the difference in last year’s team and this year’s team, last year’s team was able to score because they didn’t play defence. I know that doesn’t initially make sense, but stay with me here. As Triano’s Raptors were so pitiful defensively and really did not challenge the opponent on that end of the court, through simple human nature, their opponents reciprocated by easing off on the defence themselves. This, coupled with a quicker pace and style contributed to the Raptors APPEARING to be a decent offensive team. Really, what was happening was the game speed was faster because no one was really playing defence because opponents didn’t really take them seriously.
So IMO anyone suggesting Casey is simply a "Defensive Triano" is completely off base. Slot better talent into Casey’s system and you have a potential contender. Slot better talent into Triano’s system, you have a team that get’s pummelled in the playoffs when the pace of game slows to a crawl.
So IMO anyone suggesting Casey is simply a “Defensive Triano” is completely off base. Slot better talent into Casey’s system and you have a potential contender. Slot better talent into Triano’s system, you have a team that get’s pummelled in the playoffs when the pace of game slows to a crawl.
+1
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jan 19, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with most of that except...
To suggest that the only reason the raptors scored so well last season was due to our opponent’s lack of effort (on D) seems a little ridiculous to me. By that rationale, you could say that Chicago, LA and Miami were not solid defensive teams, their opponents simply didn’t take then seriously and therefore threw up bad shots. Let’s give a little credit where credit is due. Triano’s team (which also did not have anyone who could break down the defence off the bounce or a legit post up threat) scored because he put them in better positions to score the ball. I would argue that the pace of the game was quicker not JUST because we were terrible on defence, but also because we were making more shots. Triano’s team was much more offensive minded. Casey’s team is much more defensive minded. Which is what you want with a young team. Might as well instill a solid defensive work ethic in them early.
I Never said that the opponent’s lack of defence was the ONLY reason the Raptors appear to be better offensively last season. However, I do believe that if a team is not facing any resistance on that end and are playing an inferior opponent, they will, simply as a matter of human nature, not be as engaged in the game, especially on the defensive side which is all about effort with little tangible rewards. Were there other reasons? Sure. For example, as Triano’s team expanded absolutely zero effort on the defensive side of the ball, they could focus all their efforts and energy on offense. Also, as already stated, the team is playing at a completely different pace this season. I think these elements are much more of a factor than Triano’s coaching wizardry…
"Triano's coaching wizardry" LOL!!!
I’m still a bit of a Triano fanboy, so I’m obviously quick to come to his defense. I’m not suggesting Triano was a coaching wizard, just that he knew what he was doing on O. Having said that, I do like what Casey has done with the team and have to reluctantly concede that he is probably a better coach than Triano. A simple example would be Casey’s ability to do what the previous two coaches couldn’t. Get Bargs to contribute on D while not sacrificing his O. In a matter of 10 or 11 games, he turned Bargs from the ire of the majority of the Rap’s fan base to a legitimate contender for all-star consideration. That is F’n impressive.
And again to disprove your statement, if that were the case it wouldn’t matter what brand of basketball a team plays to win championships. A team like the Suns would have won just as many championships as the Spurs because they had more offensive talent and everyone would have slacked off defensively as their human nature would have dictated they do (its not like the Suns played hard nose D).
Not sure how your point is at all relevant
The Suns had talent, teams had to take them seriously. Not sure how you can compare the two teams… Plus even the Suns put up more resistance on the defensive side of the ball than the Raptors during the Triano era.
While I agree that people are being critical of Casey (unrightly) I just think it is an over simplification to say that if Triano had the talent they would get pummeled in the playoffs. Just because a team like the Suns from a few years ago hasn’t won doesn’t mean it can’t win. Championships are as much about luck as anything else so I am not going to assume that it will never work. We may never know what Triano could do with a talented team because it never really happened so lets stop burning him in effigy here.
Name me one, ONE team that won a championship that wasn’t a good to great rebounding and defensive team. ONE!
"Just because a team like the Suns from a few years ago hasn’t won doesn’t mean it can’t win."
Terrible logic. Just because a team of space monkeys from Glarcon 7 hasn’t won, doesn’t mean it can’t happen… Seriously, I’ll take ONE example of a team that has won a chip that wasn’t a good defensive/rebounding team.
ummm Mas
the Space Monkey’s of Glarcon 7 won the Interstellar Championships. They were pretty impressive….even for space monkeys.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jan 19, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
True, true...
I admit it, I’m a space monkey from Glarcon 7 hater! They don’t play defense, their advanced metrics are garbage, yet the manged to bring home the Interstellar Championships…. It was fixed I tell ya!
Man he took some bad shots last night. And unfortunately after hitting the game-winner, it probably means he thinks he should keep shooting them.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 19, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
He is not the same player he was with the Pistons but with CP3 he doesn’t have to be. While the shot selection can improve, he brings stability.
Personally I think he brings exactly what the Clippers need, they just need CP3 there to run the team for the first 44 minutes.
Hey Adam how about two Big Wins last night? LETS GO NETS and Wiz! They lost some ping pong balls last night.
Watching last night....
I had no sense of angst or tension. Why? Because I knew they were going to lose. In past years, I never had that feeling; I’d get angry or frustrated, but there was always an emotion of some sort. Last night, and for most of this season? Nothing.
Alot of times that would translate to a sense of apathy and therefore a bad thing. But I don’t think this is the case here. I think this is more of a acceptance that things are moving in the right direction and this is an inevitable and necessary part of that process. I believe in the coach, I believe in his system, it’s just that the players aren’t good enough, simple as that. It’s not lack of effort, just talent. Part of the solution of that problem will come over from Lithuania next year, and the rest of the solution will have to come from the draft and/or free agency. We’re going to be bad this year, but we’ll be better next year and better the year after that. I can live with that.
With that said, there’s still some small picture things that could help the Raptors out moving forward…
Trade Barbosa now! His value isn’t going to get much higher, he won’t be back next year, and his ball-hoggedness is limiting the opportunities of other’s that need the reps. There are several teams that can use him so moving him shouldn’t be overly difficult. Don’t take anything long-term back for him, but move him…now.
After the Barbosa trade, I’d try a second-unit backcourt of Bayless and Forbes. I’ve been mildly impressed with Forbes as a PG, and that would be a quick pairing.
Release Rasual Butler! I’ve gone from defending his presence in the starting lineup to wanting him released, all in a week. He’s terrible. Any D-leaguer could give you the same production. Kleiza is back so his minutes will drop anyway, but I’d rather have the open roster spot than watch him clank three’s.
Finally, yesterday’s terrible game allowed me to watch some NCAA ball. Having now seen Andre Drummond, I’d be nervous about using a top pick on him. He’s a great athlete for a 7-footer, but man, his offensive game is atrocious! He won’t do it, but he needs another year of school to work on him post game. I also got to see Myck Kabongo for the first time in a while, and I actually hope he declares. He’s could use another year as well, but I have zero confidence in Rick Barnes’ ability to coach and run any sort of coherent offense. Myck is clearly their best player, but I have to watch J’Covan Brown toss up 28 shots to score 22 points? Ridiculous!
Myck
Did you watch the Kentucky game last night? He looked solid. I think he’s going to better in the NBA than in Rick Barnes system. Reminds me of a Collison or Jrue Holiday.
Kansas State*
And, personally, I see more Darren Collison than Jrue Holiday. But he’s completely unique from either in that he’s a pure pass-first point guard. Both Holiday and Collison are better scorers at the 1, but Kabongo’s probably a better passer already, IMO. I’m not sure what most prefer, but I hate having combo guards at the 1, so I love Kabongo.
Brain fart...
Yes, Kansas state. Not sure why I wrote Kentucky… and agreed, give me the passing PG any day of the week over the Russell Westbrooks of the world.
Although, in the right situation...
Consider this…
Your team has to match up with the Lakers…
You have a lock down defender SG, who maybe isn’t an offensive threat, that can get into him hard and you don’t rely on his scoring anyways because your PG scores a bunch and you have a SF and PF who can create without needing fancy Point work to get them open… Works against D.Wade too…
Not saying it’s ideal or anything, but with the right framework of the rest of the team it can be very effective… Look Derek Rose’s direction…
Often times a team’s biggest offensive threat is their SG, so you counter with having your best defender at SG and then have other guys who can create…
Often times a score first point guard is going to get you MORE open looks than a pass first PG is, specifically because their scoring is a concern so you can’t back off and clog the passing lanes… Because he can draw attention from the D, it should open up team mates for easy looks…
"the Truth"
Also...
If you have a scoring PG it takes pressure off the talent required from the Bigs…
If they don’t need to have offence run through them and can just clean the glass and get put-backs, you can do more with less so to speak…
Ed Davis and Amir Johnson get more points from missed shots or dump offs for dunks than anything else, which limits their usefulness IF the scoring isn’t there at other positions… but with a Westbrook at the point they wouldn’t need to have plays run through them… just hustle and keep your hands up…
"the Truth"
I would say Westbrook and Dwight Howard would be headed for championships in a hurry if they had...
… a team of good defenders with reliable guys to hit open shots…
Picture this:
Russell Westbrook, Tony Allen, Shane Battier, Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard
vs
Derek Fisher, Kobe Bryant, Matt Barnes, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum
I know who I would pick for the winner…
"the Truth"
Sure
I’m sure there are scenarios where it might work to have a ball dominating, shoot first PG. However, I’m also sure that those scenarios are the exception to the rule and the majority of teams are better served by a pass first PG.
Take our version of the Raptors as we have it now, IF they were healthy...
I think they would be better suited to play with Westbrook over a healthy Jose…
They aren’t a good half court set team, so they need to play a little more free wheeling drive and dump offence if they want to put points on the board…
Now, that all being said, my own personal position is that a well built contender needs only a journeyman PG who’s responsibility is simply to get the ball across half and into the scorer’s hands and plays good D…
Then you need a reliable, creative scorer at either the SG or SF position paired with a top defender…
A hustle-beast PF who will bang, bruise, dive and defend…
And a mobile, athletic center who has scoring ability and dominates the paint…
That’s all…
Oh and a really decent bench…
"the Truth"
This year's Lakers are a very close mirror to what I would try to build if I were a GM...
Report Card
Derek Fisher : Solid veteran, can hit a shot when asked, would like to upgrade his defence : B
Kobe Bryant : PPP → Pure Point Producer, plays well enough D when required : A+
Matt Barnes : Can hit an open shot and is feisty, I would replace with a LOCK – DOWN defender : B
Pau Gasol : Matchup nightmare, great skills, can score and protect the paint : A
Andrew Bynum : When healthy he is Howard 2.0, big body, hustles, dominates the glass and puts back misses, needs seasoning : A- (for now)
Overall Grade : A-, upgrading Barnes and one more year of coaching moves towards an A+ (assuming Kobe IS immortal)
"the Truth"
Come on, Jose Vs. Westbrook?
That’s not a fair comparison. The talent levels aren’t in the same area code. Of course I would take Westbrook over Calderone and anyone who wouldn’t agree is an absolute homer. However, Westbrook vs. Rondo? I’m taking Rondo.
Agreed Westbrook / Calderon isn't even, but I wouldn't agree with your proposal without extra information...
Westbrook vs Rondo is ENTIRELY dependant on the team surrounding them…
With this Raptors team, I would pick Westbrook over Rondo…
"the Truth"
With a pass first PG you need guys who can score after taking the pass...
Our configuration would be better served with relying on Westbrook to score and cleaning up misses…
"the Truth"
I'll take ....
Rondo over Westbrook.
Westbrook seems to want to be OKC’s leading scorer, has had some aweful shooting/turnover games, and the “incident” with KD.
Where as Rondo, can score whenever he is needed to but can also create for others, and just look at some of his stats in the playoffs, when he was getting triple doubles.
After what happened in last year's playoffs...
Where Westbrook almost singlehandedly killed the Thunder by going dolo and iceing out Durant, I’d pretty much take Rondo in any situation.
Now, if I were building a team from scratch? And my options were Rondo or Westbrook?
I as well would pick Rondo…
"the Truth"
Just want to add a comment...
Regarding your comment on Rose above… Rose is on an entirely different planet than Westbrook. You can start with the fact that even though Rose is a scorer, he also dishes out 9 dimes a game (to westbrooks 5.5) and works within the offense (meaning he works the ball through his teammates and makes the right passes that lead to the actual assist pass). It’s not even close between him and westbrook. In fact I would suggest there is an argument that not only is Rose the reigning MVP, but arguably the best player in the NBA. So even though he scores points, he’s not necessarily in the same “shoot first PG” mold that Westbrook is.
He did look good. Mentally, I think he’s ready to play in the NBA….I love his pass-first mentality. I worry he’s a little to frail for the NBA right now though and I’d like to see him improve his perimeter shooting.
But like I said, Barnes is terrible, so it’d probably be for the best if he went pro.
Hey
what about am offert sheet for Brook Lopez (for the backup C position)?
So you could potentially field a C and PF who struggle to COMBINE for 10 rebounds per game? Ummm, no thanks.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jan 19, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Who really should deserve credit for Barney's somewhat turn around so far?
I’ve seen quite a few posts on here that talk about how Barney has improved this year on D, or at least seems to be trying a lot more.
Pretty much all of those posts credit Casey for his turn around.
However, if you go back to the end of last season, when BC had his end of season press conference, didn’t he call AB out (and didn’t AB say something in an Italian paper about it)?
I think this (plus Casey) is a big reason for the difference in Barney this year.
Marquis Teage
is the best combination of a pure PG who can score when/if necessary and that’s why I like him more than Myck. Teague is all about running the team first and passing first but can quietly put 10 – 14pts on the board without any fuss. Myck is a nice pure PG but he seems to struggle to score against good teams which scares me when I picture him in the NBA.
Teague also has a better NBA body and style IMO. Myck is still easily my 2nd favourite point guard this year tho.
Right now, I agree
And that’s how they were rated going into College, so not a huge surprise. However, I wouldn’t worry too much about Myck’s game in the NBA. If you have jets and you can dish it well, you’ll make a fine PG in the NBA (see: Rubio, Rondo)
And also, as MAS11 said
Don’t judge him by the incompetent Rick Barnes’ system. Texas’s offensive gameplan in every match-up seems to be:
1. Myck brings it up court.
2. Couple of stupid screens to get J’Covan Brown the ball at the perimeter.
3. Iso situation, followed by Brown jacking up a ridiculous shot with 2-3 teammates wide open.
I’m exaggerating a little bit, but it’s not completely untrue. It’s actually a little bit shocking that Myck’s averaging what, 7-8 assists/game?
yeah it’s hard to see what Myck can do when the offence at Texas is so prescriptive.
Myck played well last night tho I have to say.
Harrison Barnes playing really well tonight
As much as I like MKG, I think Barnes is the better fit.

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