Tip-In: The Soft, Chewy Center, Washington beats Toronto 93-78
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Jan 11, 2012 8:00 AM EST
in Tip-In (Post Game Reports)
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Coming in the middle of the back-to-back-to-back sequence is this game against the Wizards. A lot of people called this game a "trap" game as the Wizards came into the game 0-8. Kinnon Yee says we should have expected it, and that this loss shouldn't have surprised anyone.
Forgive me as I indulge.
The Raptors lost, and lost big. In fact, it was a game that I had thought would be pretty ugly and the Raptors were happy to oblige. Back-to-Backs are hard for most teams, but none more so than those who predicate themselves on defense. There's just so little room for error and as we've seen with this Raptors team, once they're down, they simply don't have the ability to get back out of it.
Besides that, there's a lot to talk about and take away from this game. It's early still in the year, but I think we can come to some conclusions at this time.
For one, this Raptors team, while it has a philosophy, has not found an identity yet. An identity is something that you show on a nightly basis no matter what city or team you play against. It's what you lean back on in your time of crisis. In two games so far, we've seen the Raptors get into trouble and then evaporate. While I'm all for this change Dwane Casey has envisioned, it's an ongoing process that's going to take months to solidify.
Sure, the Raptors can play good defense when they're rested and of a good state of mind. But the Raptors have to learn to continue to play good defense and make life difficult for other teams even in the face of losing. A lack of offensive scoring can't begin to affect your performance as a team on the defensive end.
Another thing that we can take from this game is that Andrea Bargnani really seems to be getting it this year. Even when everything looked lost, Bargnani seemed still want to try and guide the Raptors down the right path. It's just that he's had so little help this year outside of Amir Johnson and Jose Calderon that it's embarrassing.
When Bargnani attempted to get aggressive and get to the line, the rest of his teammates continued to look lost on the perimeter. But at the heart of it, our Italian hero was gassed from last night and could only do so much.
Case in point, our swingman situation.
It was bad in previous years during the Bosh-era when we just couldn't get the right production out of the shooting guard position, but now that Bosh is gone, there's just no excuse. DeMar DeRozan clearly isn't the answer right now as he continues to struggle to find ANY kind of consistency. His shot selection, his decision making, his comfort in dribbling to make his own plays are all well below the average shooting guard at this time. This is your starting shooting guard ladies and gentlemen, a position that is almost predicated on the ability to nail a shot on a consistent basis or the ability to drive to the basket in a manner that leads to free throws or a basket.
Granted, the bench option is not any better.
Leandro Barbosa continues to do his best Jerryd Bayless impression by playing out of control and coughing up turnover over turnover. And it's not like he's doing it by passing the ball (cause god knows that he doesn't even do that often enough). He does it by dribbling into traffic or traps and then trying to dribble out of control back into a shooting position.
Dwane Casey may have given him a green light, but I'd love to see some ball movement first to the open man. Because right now, the Raptors are simply banking on Barbosa to have a good or decent game once in a while to propel their team to victory. Unfortunately that's just no way to build a winning culture.
Heck, it's not even a way to develop your young up and coming players.
I'm not even going to talk about the small forward position either since that disaster has been talked about ad naseum. What I find astounding still is how badly Rasual Butler is playing. Granted, his career percentages of around 36% beyond the 3 point arc are nothing to write home about, but this is yet another ineffectual three point shooter that has joined the Raptors shooting well below his career mark. And with James Johnson still showing us that he's the second coming of JYD (lots of energy, best in limited minutes) you can understand that there was a scary sentiment growing last night on our game thread.
We started pining for Linas Kleiza.
Overall though, I'd have to say that the biggest let down was a lack of energy. We can forgive the starters since Dwane Casey made the right move and secured the sure win against Minnesota, but to have your bench come up and do so little even when they have so much to prove is just disturbing.
Unfortunately, the Raptors have little choice but to just keep rolling on.
It's a flight back home and then tonight, they face the lovely Sacramento Kings. As much as we may question MSLE about their commitments to winning, the scary show that is the Maloof Brothers continues to astound. With DeMarcus Cousins essentially "winning" the Kings from Paul Westphal, the Kings seem to have handed the inmates the keys to the team.
I guess in the Maloof's world, when a player holds the team hostage, the team caves to the player demands.
Nevertheless, the Kings are a dangerous team to be playing on the tail end of a back-to-back-to-back and with this being the final game of the Raptors' triple header, they will need to find energy from the reserves.
To me, this has to be the highlight for a Raptors win tonight. If the Raptors cannot rely on Ed Davis, Leandro Barbossa, Anthony Carter, James Johnson, and Jamaal Magloire to play extended minutes, this game will be over quickly and ugly. It's simply going to come down to that one key again. We can hardly count on the the fact that the Kings are coming off a horrible loss to the 76ers last night as the Raptors are coming off a much tougher grind.
So tonight, it's gotta be time for someone unsung to step it up. The Raptors have a small chance to come out of this difficult Back-to-Back-to-Back situation with two wins. They just have to go and work for it.
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so are you saying
that a lot of the poor driving to the basket or the poor pound the rock (inside) and get to the foul line is actually the play of the guard?
Then I agree….
BUT WHY is there no change once a time out is called, or coming out from a half or qtr break?
Surely Casey sees the issue…?
Again I ask like last night…did Casey then lose or is losing the team? Many times these idiot players see themselves as THE star of the team. Hell…they see themselves as the reason everything exist around them, even their parents!
They have been hearing this since 8th grade and their posse tells them this to and from the game.
Their wannabe, gold digging girlfriends tell them this while sleeping with them.
But their coach and fellow players with an idea should set them straight!
Is their lack of a bench allowing for the continuation of their false beliefs, their self adoration?
uh
No need for a psych analysis on this one… Casey definitely hasn’t lost the team, we just have a lack of talent and it’s making it difficult for this team to find a consistent identity.
I, for one, can’t wait to see Kleiza back in uniform, and hopefully end this Rasual Butler experiment.
by drebans on Jan 11, 2012 9:01 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 2 recs
And solid point Vicious regarding identity. The philosophy may be there, but this club is a ways a way from having a solid idea of who they are every night.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
While I wholeheartedly agree with identity
and identity is mostly brought by a vet or leader(s) on the team, nothing here explains the initial question as to why they do not play defense.
In my humble opinion…this is a standard of basketball. Offense takes skill. And a whole lot of team awareness that will take time.
But I am a stickler for defense. This should be an attitude that is there in a pro by now.
Sure…it is a lot of team talking and temmate aid to be successful…but I am not seeing it individually.
THAT part should be there and should have been there by the time college was over.
This is big bucks time.
Nobody should need to make you “up” to leave the lockerroom on any night.
That is a drive in itself…to put on a pro jersey and walk onto the floor in front of all those fans.
That alone should bring attitude and defense every night.
By that logic, every team in the league should be good defensively. Yet, somehow, roughly half the league is below average at defence…
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Jan 11, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Say What?
Your logic on this strains even the least rational minds.
My guess is that maybe 10% to 20% tops in the league are driven to compete almost every night. Very few are capable of doing it every night.
What I’m saying is that if every player in the NBA were a “pro” that worked hard at defence at all times, roughly half of them would still be below average. That’s inescapable because they are being measured against each other.
There is more to being a good defender than just hard work and a “professional attitude”; as Sam Mitchell pointed out, a lot of good defence is actually talent.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Jan 11, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
As I said in the other recap
What I saw last night was pretty much the spirit being willing, but the body was not. The Raptors starters were gassed and there was no help in sight from the bench. The most promising thing was the Bargs was still putting the effort in and he had the most minutes in the previous game.
To me, this is the beginning of a team identity.
I think the beginning is there, but it’ll take a while to completely form it, especially with what frankly is a lack of starting caliber talent.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
And thats why
I have to say I am overall pleased with our start.
and isn't it a standard NBA move
to start attacking the basket IF your outside shots are nowhere?
Isn’t it an NBA standard to get to the foul line if you cannot score?
If not…I must have been listening wrong for a long time.
Because you can’t turn a J shooter into drivers just like you can’t turn post players into shooters.
If it was that “easy” everyone wouldn’t everyone be doing it?
Plus, getting into the lane = getting punished, and very few players can do it consistently. It’s why Whince Carter stopped, because you can only take so much punishment.
Heck, it’s why Michael Jordan stopped going to the rim and perfected the step back fade.
by Ustation on Jan 11, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Plus, the fatigue issue – if you’re tired, it’s a heck of a lot easier to jack a jump shot than to run into a crowd of bodies and try to score through contact.
by dhackett1565 on Jan 11, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They Shouldn't Be Tired
two weeks into the season after an eight month vacation.
You're talking about mental fatigue
Physically, they didn’t have their legs from the get-go. They managed to hang around for the first 6 minutes and then…
There Shouldn't Either At This Time
However, I was talking about physical fatigue
Two weeks into a season after eight months vacation and they are physically fatigued?
If they are they should be traded ASAP or spend all their time with a dietician and in the training room until are are ready to physically handle it.
Except for Barbosa and Calderon who are not that old all the rest of the key guys (I don’t consider R. Butler a key guy) are young.
There is absolutely no valid excuse at this time of this season for being physically fatigued any worse than their opponents if physically fatigued at all.
Yes, being fatigued the day following a game should be expected
Here’s some info on back to back to back games.
The good news is that history (SSS alert though) suggests that the Raptors might be more able to compete than initially I had thought.
But there’s a definite drop in winning percentage on 0 days rest, which suggests that NBA player are definitely affected by not having at least one day off between games.
Type Win%
0 .489
1 .509
2 .508
3 .542
4 .400
Two Weeks Into The Season After An Eight Month Vacation
I don’t think that has happened more than once before in NBA history. I doubt your stats are from that season.
My guess is that your stats include a full season’s worth of data. That is my whole point.
They haven’t played a full season or anything close to it. They have played two weeks after having been on vacation for eight months.
Sorry I will pass on your analysis of this particular situation.
+1
This team has two guys REALLY who attack the basket; Leandro Barbosa and Jerryd Bayless. And really Bayless is the only one who looks to do that all the time.
DeRozan has the athleticism to draw contact, but his ball-handling skills don’t allow him to beat his man off the bounce very often, and he’s being used right now in much more of a Rip Hamilton way.
Bargs is the only other player to me that has the ability to get to the line, but it’s taken him five seasons to grow into this style of play.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Hey UStation... I think I found the "contact" Michael Jordan started trying to avoid later in his career...
"the Truth"
by Mikthaniel on Jan 11, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As a former undersized, “undertalented” SG, I cringed at the thought when players played me “tight left” and were trying to force me to drive left. After getting smacked up side the head, or worse landing on my head a few times, I’d be begging the coach to run curl plays off the screen.
Without speed or great body control in the air, I think I’d be good for two drives a game. I’m proudly embarrassed to have loved playing 3 point line to 3 point line, especially on a 2-3 zone.
I don’t care how much you “want to drive” even if it’s given to you. A couple of good whacks and I know what Whince felt. Couldn’t imagine what the ’A would be like.
It takes unique talent to want to keep going inside.
by Ustation on Jan 11, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As a high school senior I averaged 31 ppg and 8 rpg...
I was pissing off opponents to the point where I got knee-lifted in the gut going around a guy after crossing him up, literally getting sent ass over teakettle and severely winded…
Next play I drove it right back at him for an up and under reverse…
Punish them till they play dirty, then make em look bad even doing that…
That was my game…
"the Truth"
I was ok with dealing a hard offensive charge once in a while. The best lick I got in was knocking over a 6’6 250 pound guy then “accidentally” fell over landing on him. The BEST part was he got called for the block.
We were playing a team that had us woefully overmatched one time...
They were being dinks about it and knocking our guys around…
As one of their guys was streaking for a fast break layup I chased him down and “attempted to block his shot” by effectively shoulder tackling him out of mid air into the padded endwall of the gym…
"the Truth"
I think you are confused...or disingenuous
Now I do not know you or how you were coached or taught to get to the basket.
However…I am not advising somebody drive head long into the massive bodies of defenders to get to the basket.
And any above who are implying that is how you drive the ball inside is nuts…and disingenuous.
There are what we call screens and pass inside set up plays that make this happen without sacrificing a player’s career.
If this team is not doing that…they are not playing good basketball.
Now please folks…do not make like this is wrong.
And to make statements like IF it were so easy, everybody would be doing it….
Or If it were that simple, every team could/would do it.
I don’t care about other teams.
It IS the way you play basketball.
I do NOT see it being done…THAT is the problem.
You may or may not be successful trying it…but you gotta try it.
My bitch is it ain’t being tried…let alone being able to do it.
I Agree Except For
end of game situations.
Guys like Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade, Billups, Rose etc have become stars in the league partially because they have been able to take it the rack in the 4th quarter when needed defense be damned
..obviously a guy who hasn’t played/coached a lick of competitive basketball a day in his life.
I don’t care how many back door cuts, or double screens you throw, if know when you get inside there’s going to be mild contact at best. Especially when you’re not in the “A” you see zone defences.
When/if you beat your guy, you’re trying to feel for the rotation, where ever the rotation comes from should be your open pass. If there’s no ro’ you try and go hard in, but if it’s a half decent d, you should face their big which you need to apply your “move” and expect contact.
Everyone defends the back door or penetration by sagging, or fights thru a screen or recognize weakside rotation help if the first line is beat, or if a cutter beats the screen.
All team’s goal is to put the right shooters in the right place with the right shots.. Defence is about preventing that.
Why has it that the Raps have gone thru 3 coaches as a J team and remained predominately the same?
real life bball isn’t like a video game where you push the stick towards the basket and hit the dunk button.
And if you send everyone running hard cuts every play they’d be gassed by the end of the 1st.
If you really think being young and early in the season means you don’t gas?? Check: http://youtu.be/CKF1kyY3qJI
Answer
You have to understand the game of basketball and be able to read what is happening quickly, almost instinctually, enough and have the legs, foot speed and will do it.
If you can’t do that and know how to play the angles on defense you are toast.
It also helps to watch enough film of your opponents and internalize it so that you are better able to stop them..
Of course if you played you already know this, but I don’t believe you mentioned it.
DeRozan
He is still playing like a rookie far too too often
He is too weak to play Joe Johnson style SG
HIs motor is not good enough to play Rip Hamilton or Ray Allen style SG
His defense is still lacking
His shooting percentages including traditional two point shots is down this season to a miserable 40% the worst of his career.
His FT per 36 minutes are the lowest of this career.
We have witnessed his inept offensive effort the last three games or so ever since he had that 5 – 8 night from beyond the arc.
Is DeRozan a one way player incapable of performing hard on both offense and defense?
Is there some other problem going on with him that we are not aware of?
Maybe he and Casey are having a problem getting along. Triano was certainly softer on his players than Casey is. Up until this season DeMar has basically been coddled by his coaches including getting an automatic almost no matter what starting role as a rookie. A number of Raptors fans questioned that decision at times during his rookie season.
Something is going on and it ain’t good.
I think this season will be a weeding out season. ISTM that BC and Casey are on the same page as to the type of players they want playing for the Raptors. This season some of the players who got a free ride under Triano are either going to step up or be gone come next summer if not earlier.
I think the mentally soft will be weeded out by next fall.
It scares me when rookies like Chris Singleton (who I pined for in the draft) come in and look better than DeMar...
Seriously, DeMar has worse one on one defence than Jose…
Granted he is usually playing D against a stronger more talented player (SG typically are harder to defend than PG’s) but DeMar is a SG as well…
It isn’t like asking Bayless to D-Up Andrew Bynum…
Maybe DeMar is trying to add some international flare to mesh with the team and is trying for an “El Matador” nickname?
"the Truth"
LOVE Singleton
Pined for him as a second first-rounder too…he’d look great for the Raps.
And an interesting point on DeMar that I realized this season; while my disdain for Bargnani stemmed from his lack of effort/desire etc despite his obvious skill set, my indifference towards DeRozan was born out of a lack of confidence in him BEING that skilled in the first place. He’s a hard worker, but I’ve just never seen him as the franchise piece that many have.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
but I’ve just never seen him as the franchise piece that many have.
Unfortunately that is what it is starting to look like.
The opposite reason is one of the big reasons I am such an Amir fanboy. As he gets more experienced in minutes played and and stronger there will always be a demand for him in the league no matter how good or bad the team.
He may never start for a championship team, I will grant that, but as he gets older more experienced and stronger top playoff teams will find rotation minutes for him because of what he brings.
If he stays healthy and I am not talking about diet here, he could wind up having a very long NBA career and hopefully play for a NBA champion some day.
I hate losing. I don’t care how good Amir plays. I would rather see him come off the bench for a solid playoff team than start for a lottery team.
AND I agree
your poor offense should NEVER effect your defense.
In fact, your defense should get tougher. It is, after all….your ONLY safety net or fail safe when your offense fails.
And you should get emotionally tougher when an opponant is bringing it to you.
Ugliness
Something like 3 minutes in and nobody on either team had scored. Then the raptors start committing turnovers so bad they literally look like they are passing to the other team… Blarg… That was hard to watch … Expect better tonight…
Great write-up
Missed this one and thankful I did after coming home and seeing the score and Rapid Recap. The team should be absolutely embarrassed to lose this one, Casey included. The Wizards are from every perspective the worst team in the league and yet somehow Toronto managed to sink below them last night.
Ugh.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
nobody wants the bench back more than I
and I expressed many times that without the bench, hell…even with the bench whole…will this team be seen as what they can be until several weeks into the season…especially THIS season.
But defensive attitude, or lack of, drives me to drink…which I am trying to slow down to a bottle a game.
I guess I was to inpresses as a kid by Stormin Norm of the early Bulls
he used to get me to emotional when his teammates didn’t play defense.
And as an announcer, he got even worse!
BTW...a little story on Norm VanLeer
Long time ago I coached a very good travel baseball team in a Chic sub…and we needed money.
I wanted to hold a fundraiser but didn’t know who to bring for a speaker to get people in and sell tickets.
I called Norm and left a measage.
He called back and after talking about our situation…he said OK…he would do it IF I paid him 100.00 and his travel expense out to the burbs.
When I told him we didn’t even have that…there was a short hesitation…then he said to hell with it. He would come out for free and that was all there was to it.
awesome guy.
Great story – love when guys take the reigns like that even when there’s nothing in it for them financially.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Eye Opener...
Good article and I think last night was a real eye opener about this team and the flaws that they do have.
No one played well last night and while you can excuse the starters because of the minutes played again Minnesota we need to be realistic about one thing. They allowed way too many points in the paint and if the team philosophy on defence is to protect the paint first, that should of been takent care of and let the wizards (shooting 28% from 3 on the season) beat us from the outside. Close out late but protect the paint first. That is the philopshy we are trying to develop and have done a great job for the first 9 games but those habits and philosophy are suppose to become our identity. I would of preferred to have the wizard bomb us from the three line and lose than let them continuously get layups.
Outside of Andrea, Amir and Jose everyone seems unclear on how to play on offence. The ‘Pound the Rock’ moto has nothing to do with driving the basketball to the hoop. Its acutally been around the NBA for years with the Spurs except they call it the stonecutter.
“I knew we were going to be a work in progress, every time we walked on the floor we were going to have to have something to get us to think about … how we have to get better, we’ve got to work to get better,” Casey said earlier this week. “It’s from a story about a stonecutter. Every time a stonecutter hits a rock it may not break, you may have to hit it 100 times but on that 101st time you hit it, now you crack the rock.”
As much as everyone needs to take blame in this loss, defensively we still only surrended 93 points. We still need to be able to score and we just aren’t getting anything that resembles offence from our wing players.
Last night they shot 30% (12-40) for 31 points, 11 turnovers, in 112 minutes of playing time. Last night Kobe Bryant outscored all of our wing players combined, think about that, in almost 1/4 of the playing time he outscored them. It is impossible to win when you are getting that little production from two of your perimeter positions.
Outside of Jose, Amir and Andrea we are not making smart decisions with the ball. We drive when they collapse and shoot when they are closing out hard on us, and our awareness to find cutters and shooters when we drive is almost non-existent anymore. But this is what this year is about, finding out what pieces (and veterans) we want to have here when we get a draft pick next year and JV comes over. It just means that some nights I may open the Whiskey before half time.
How Badly Injured Are Amir's Right Hand and Wrist?
Last night he was back wearing the hand/wrist wrap, this time a very large wrap on his right wrist, thumb and index finger. This led again to another dismal scoring performance.
Against Minnesota he was not wearing the wrap but last night it was once more back on.
I have not seen any news about the injury other than the fact that he has a hand/wrist injury.
However, given that he wears the wrap for some games and doesn’t wear it for others and knowing Amir’s ability to play with even serious injuries; eg the ankle, I am wondering if he may have something like torn ligaments in this hand/wrist that will require surgery.
It could of course be just a sprain that was again re-aggravated against Minnesota.
In any case barring any information about the nature of his injury we will just have to wait and see what happens.
Not looking promising at this point.
Not sure when I’ll be at a game next, but I’ll try and get some intel on the hand situation.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Tough game
Too bad about the loss, despite the fact that it was entirely predictable.
On the plus side, Andrea had an efficient game on offence, Toronto outrebounded Washington (Amir 10, Davis 9) and Anthony Carter had his best game of the year.
On the minus side, the DeRozan, Butler and JJ were a combined 6-27 from the field, Washington shot 49% and Toronto turned the ball over way too much.
Funny enough, with the Wizards shooting 53% from the FT line the Raptors should have probably fouled a lot more.
With the starters all playing 30 minutes or less, maybe we will see a little better performance tonight against the Kings.
Bounce-back game needed but worried that the Kings’ offence will be a handful on night number three…we’ll see.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Weight and Strength
I understand Cousins is starting again.
He will be a major test of Amir’s strength and added weight. Cousins is a lot stronger than Love is.
weight and strenght
The Big Cat may have to help AJ tonight….get physical with cousins and he loses it,get him off his game.
This Is A Game
that the Raptors could use Gray.
The second string lineup for the Raps seriously is painful to watch on Offence...
One option I think they should look to more is James Johnson in the post…
If he can get deep position where he doesn’t have to dribble a bunch he actually has rather good post moves, he needs to work on his touch, but the moves are there…
Also, with as good a passer as he has shown to be at times, finding an open Barbosa and Bayless once he is in the post should get some quality OPEN looks…
I’ve watched him post up numerous times and he always gets a good shot, his little hook shot drops most consistently, but he gets all the way to the rim quite often… he just misses layups…
IMO he is every bit as athletic as DeMar, and he is more physical… he should be pounding the post rather than trying to hit jumpers or drive the ball even…
He can provide some points and draw some fouls while giving some key team-mates time to catch their breath…
I too look forward to getting Kleiza in for Butler, but I really think James could cement himself as a starter, or at least the main minute-man at SF if he works his post game…
"the Truth"
new to the site...
…unfortunately not new to ugly losses
man we really lack talent on the wings
AB finally playing like the all-star he is, yep big time Bargs fan here!
Prepare to be tarred and feathered...
but welcome just the same…
You may have a slight reprive as long as this version of Bargnani holds out… but if/when he falters… be prepared for a lashing…
"the Truth"
what doesn't kill you
makes you stronger…… l
well his primo pasta commercial...
was quite creepy I’ll give you that
by TFC Academy on Jan 11, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I’m kind of warming up to it. Love the goofy smile he gives right at the end.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Welcome!
Glad to have you aboard man…in what could be a roller-coaster season.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
will be here for tonight’s game. Last time I watched the Kings they were a real mess, still under Westphal though.
btw
John Wall isn’t really lighting it up in DC what about offering a package centered around Ed, 2013 1st and Calderon who will expire next year (maybe plus the brazilian) for absorbing some DC’s bad contract, for John Wall + some guy the Wizard want to get a rid of?
Doubt they take it – he’s still franchise material for them.
by dhackett1565 on Jan 11, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
+1
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
point is
Raps and Wizards are at two different stages of the rebuild, They could use help at various positions while the raps have some pieces in place, this could be a way to get top level talent at multiple positions. Plus, again JW has not been overly impressive so far so ther e is a risk factor for Toronto
Zero chance
They wouldn’t even think about an offer unless it involved multiple first round picks. John Wall has started slow, but he still has the potential to enter that elite pg category. You also forget that last season he was a 16/8 rookie.
On top of that the wizards really don’t have any bad contracts that they can’t amnesty. Lewis only has one year left and can be used as trade bait next year and if they want to amnesty Blatche they can. For 2013/2014 they only have John Wall under contract.
So who do we take on that is a bad contract? No one runs longer than Jose except Blatche who they can amnesty. Davis is under performing and if they give Wall up there is no guarantee its even for anything in the lottery.
Does Forbes not deserve a chance?
Can he be any wose than Butler and Barbosa?
From what litle I've seen from Forbes...
His defence is less than Butler’s but his offence looks smoother…
I think if he got some regular PT he would be able to give the second unit some points while being serviceable defensively against the other teams B-Unit…
He doesn’t have the D to play the A Unit… but then again neither does DeMar…
I would love to see him get some more burn and let Butler get lost on the bench…
"the Truth"
Butler probably rides the pines
The moment Kleiza returns to action. JJ sees minutes when Kleiza sits. That leaves Butler and Forbes scrapping it out for garbage time.
Kleiza won't be in starter condition when he's active, so who starts?
Does Johnson leapfrog Butler?
Johnson/Kleiza/Butler/Forbes?
IMO Forbes should not be buried so deep…
Maybe Forbes should get some of Barbosa’s minutes at the 2?
"the Truth"
Forbes In A Practice Player and Major Influx of SF Injury Player
The guy is 26 or 27 years old with a few hundred NBA minutes in his career. There has to be a reason.
26
Stuck around in college for a while though so was an “older draftee.” He was a rookie last season, and a stud at UMASS (Averaged 19, 8 and 3 in his last season there) so his lack of PT has nothing to do with prior performance. He simply took more of an Anthony Parker route to the league. Can he stick? Well, he needs some PT to prove it now.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Today If Guys Are That Good
they rarely stick around that long playing NCAA basketball.
Taj Gibson is one example of can think of but rarely do the scouts miss that badly on an eventual regular rotation player.
I am sure that there are others like Gibson but my guess is that today they are now very few and far in between.
A chance?
There may be a reason he only has a few hundred minutes to his name but he has stuck around and must be capable enough. Plus if there was ever an example of guys playing themselves out of minutes its Butler and Barbosa.
I’d rather bring Michael Finley up from the D-League. Could Forbes really be worse?
He Could Be A Very Good Practice Player
There have numerous players in all sports that are great or better than average in practice but when the real lights go on their games go south especially when playing before large crowds.
wow...how true
when coaching travel baseball…this was a terrible problem.
We ran tryouts and it never failed…we would fall in love with some players that knocked hell out of the ball.
However, when faced with a pitcher and an umpire behind them…they froze.
There simply are players that play lose and others that play tight.
I myself still confront this demon myself.
When I play in tennis matches, there are many times when I need to grab this devil by the throat and strangle it.
I can simply not get loose sometimes, and against certain players.
Some players I kick hell out in drills and fun.
But when it comes time to play in a match…how I do against them seems to tighten me up to the point I am the enemy!
Its now them ANd me against myself.
So I understand the problem these players face.
Very weird stuff…this mental state of sports.
And I guess life itrself.
You know…its like some girls just make you stupid when you try to talk to them…..even though its you doing it.
may as well justr give it up!
Well
It’s not like Butler has been getting a tonne of minutes as a starter, so I see a simple substitution at first, with Kleiza getting Butler’s existing minutes, but JJ actually getting more minutes as the sub.
If Kleiza’s even moderately effective, he’ll gradually get more minutes and JJ less.
Butler’s not in starter condition, hasn’t stopped him ;)
by dhackett1565 on Jan 11, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Love to see Forbes too
Haven’t looked at the stats, but think he’s actually playing less now than in Denver last year.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jan 11, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Often There Are Reasons Guys Don't Play
when fans think that maybe they should
Often those reasons are not made available to the fans.
likewise when they play hurt
we really don’t know about it.
Or the teams themselves hide difficulties they are facing. Perhaps some inner turmoil is eating at them that we do not know about.
This is a gathering of many personalities…many horrid ones as well.
But I guess that’s why you need tough skin as a public person…you gotta take the input from everybody, regardless of how knowledgeable they (we) are.
forbes
he did play more in denver and denver is way better then us lol so makes me wonder why butler is so high on the coaches list. well he does rebound but really for 100 missed shots that has costed us many points to a few rebounds and decent defense. that cant be the answer….
demar, butler and JJ
all three cant even hit lap ups this year either, let alone shooting! I will wait for demar to break slump… Like i said, he cant play worse then last year forever and hes pressing. Once he figures it out, less pressure off bargs since no one else can score. Its kind of sad to know that amir and calderon have to be your second and third options on offense the way its going so far. Kind of easy for the other team… guard bargs…. rest of team cant score or hit open shots…… dont need to guard butler. calderon passes mostly. demar cant buy a bucket double team bargs he still scores or gets a chance for most part
Bargnani, The 2012 Olympics and Team Canada
Italy might not qualify.
If Bargnani gets his Canadian citizenship in time will he play for Team Canada in their attempt to qualify. I am assuming that they need to qualify and haven’t l already.
Italy won't be at the 2012 Olimpics
That is set in stone. Bargnani won’t play for Canada, that is set in stone too (having plaid for Italy before)
Thanks For The Prompt Clarification
Too bad for Bargnani, Team Canada and Raptors fans.
On Second Thought
However, I understand BC has some pull with a certain heavy hitter in the Olympics basketball program. LOL
Maybe he can get them to change the rule and allow Bargnani to play for Team Canada. They could call it the Bargnani rule. If D. Rose has a rule named made because of him and after him why not Andrea? LOL
You Have To Be Smart To Be A Very Good NBA Player
Its not just about physical skills. All of the best NBA players were smart guys when it came to knowing how to play the game the right way.
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