When You Hear the Words "Toronto Raptors" You Think...
by Adam Francis on Aug 19, 2011 10:15 AM EDT
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What does the average NBA blogger think about the Toronto Raptors? The HQ finds out...
On Monday I discussed the perception of the Toronto Raptors and how changing that was going to be a key component of any type of rebranding exercise. I wagered that the average NBA fan thought the club to be a bit on the irrelevant side of things, but had no hard evidence to say that indeed, this was the correct perception of the team by the NBA public.
Therefore I decided to do an impromptu survey of sorts.
I reached out to our crack team of basketball bloggers at SB Nation, to get their take on the Raps.
The ask?
Simply email me the first few words that come to mind when you hear the name, "Toronto Raptors."
Here were the results:
-Cartoonish dinosaur
-Canada
-Finesse
-Antonio Davis (seriously)
-Kobe's 81 (trust me, I wish I didn't remember that so vividly)
Tom Ziller - Sactown Royalty, SB Nation's Lead Basketball Writer
-Claw
-Logo
-Foreigners
-Oh Canada
-Skeets & Tas
-stumbling mascot -
-Jurassic Park
-Foreign Born team
-Constant rebuild
-Taxes-Exchange rates
-Hockey / Snow
Honestly, as a team we see only twice per year, on the other side of the country, that's not done much in the playoffs, it leaves very little impression of the franchise in my mind.
Seth Pollack - Bright Side of the Sun
-Fan grudges-Jurassic Park
-Vince Carter
-Butch Carter
-Great city that NBA players don't appreciate
-Should be renamed the Huskies
Andrew Feinstein - Denver Stiffs
-Vince Carter
-Jurassic Park
-Dinosaur
-Canada
-T-Rex
Mike Prada - Bullets Forever, Editor - SB Nation
-rookie of the year
J.A. Sherman - Welcome to Loud City
-Bosh resembling a raptor
-That's all I got, eh?
-Stoudamire
-Colangelo
-Air Canada
-Basketball Jones
-Euroleague
-Vince Carter
-Chris Bosh
-Bad name
-Great town
-Lots of Euro players
-Vince Carter
-Charles Oakley
-Awesomely Cheezy 90s Uniforms
-Passport Issues
Zebulun Benbrook - Welcome to Loud City
-Hakeem's last stop
-Bonner's first stop
-Beautiful city (Hollywood's less expensive stand-in for n.y.)
-Team shunned by both McGrady and Carter
Conclusion?
Well the bulk of responses typically fell into one of two categories, either hearkening back to the team's glory-days (Vince Carter, Hakeem, Oakley etc), or unfortunate stereotypes (taxes, passport issues, Euroleague, hockey etc.)
However as you can see above, there wasn't a single response like "tradition," "dominant," or even "offense," words that probably would be used to describe other NBA teams like the Lakers and Celtics.
And really, I didn't expect there to be.
As we've pointed out recently, when your franchise has a .409 winning percentage, it's hard to evoke too many images of greatness.
Again, fielding a consistently successful team on the court helps change part of a team's perception, but a rebrand would also go a long way towards tearing down some of the other stereotypes associated with the club.
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However as you can see above, there wasn’t a single response like “tradition,” “dominant,” or even “offense,”
Actually the first thing that came to my mind when I started to read the article was “offense”, more “offense” and even more “offense”
Of course this is from a Los Angeles guy who was only a casual viewer of Raptors games before Amir started playing for the Raptors. So I really don’t think of all those other things regarding the Raptors which pre-date Amir. Even Bosh who only played one season with the Raptors after Amir came to the team.
I’d like to try and do a similar poll for our readers actually as I think offense would be one of the first things that would come to most fans’ minds.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 19, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I think a more appropriate term than general offense was “finesse” as per Tom Ziller. Which to me (and others I’m sure) in NBA terms is synonymous to “soft”. I mean let’s face it, even when they were good offensively, they didn’t do it the right way. They were not aggressive, didn’t draw fouls, didn’t really make the oponent work. This is related specifically to the Colangelo era as the Grunwald era was a different story, where defense and rebounding ruled the day (i.e. Antonio Davis, Oakley, Keon Clark, Alvin Williams, JYD etc.). Ahh, the glory days…
finesse is a good description
I agree with the characterization of the Raptors as a finesse-oriented offensive team during the Colangelo era. However, some of that offense was done “the right way”. When the Raptors were getting efficient three point shooting from Parker and Calderon (40%+) that was good stuff. Also, Bosh’s relentless foul-drawing while certainly being “finesse” scroring, was indeed very efficient (at least until the playoffs when the refs stopped giving him his usual foul calls).
It’s too bad the “glory days” were so short-lived and in the end not even that glorious. It is my fervent hope that the true glory days will happen some time in the future.
Absolutely right about Bosh. He had a finesse game for sure, but he often got to little credit for the work he did to get himself to the line. He was tireless in his effort to draw fouls and at certain points, ranked amongst the top 5 to 10 in the league (if my memory serves in drawing fouls. And yes, when Parker and Calderone were stroking it, their offense was pretty dam good. Finally, despite the short duration of the “glory days” they were pretty dam glorious, in “relative to Raptors” terms. My main point I suppose is those teams played NBA ball the way you are supposed to and consequently were the best Raptors teams to date.However, agreed, hoping the best is yet to come!
Impressions - still a blank slate
I think once the Raptors put together a run of good seasons with a particular core then that will solidify in the fans mind. Suppose the combination of Jonas, next year’s pick, Amir, Ed and DeRozan forms the basis of a competitive team that makes the playoffs for 5 or more years in a row and reaches the second or third round at least once or twice. If that happens then that will become what the league thinks of the Raptors.
When I think of the less well known teams, I always think of their successful eras. For the Kings, I think of Webber-Divac, for example. For the Hawks it’s either the current team or the Dominique Wilkins era.
I think for a lot of US-based NBA fans the Raptors are a bit of a mystery. If Vince had stuck around then he would probably be the face of the franchise for most fans. Bosh kind of was for a while there, but the team neither generated enough excitement due to their playing style or progressed far enough in the playoffs to establish any kind of respect during his tenure.
What it boils down to is that when the Raptors finally manage to put together a team that can gain and maintain the average NBA fan’s respect over an extended period time then that will cement the franchise’s image. Until then the team is still a blank slate.
Some good points...
I’d like to add that the above would be even more true if that team was an especially good road team. Thereby building a reputation in front of fans in other markets.
when i think t.o raps i think.
- offense
- soft D
- European (not meant to be bad or good, just European)
- Jurassic park
- rejected by players
- great city that most players don’t know about
- an incredible basketball city if the team could string together a few winning seasons.
- Would prefer if they ditched the dino and went with the husky.
I am a fan of a team in the NBA, MLB, NHL, and NFL. I haven't seen the playoffs since April 28th, 2008 (1st round exit by raps). I haven't seen playoffs past the 1st round since January 26th, 2006. Stop and think about how insane it is. And depressing.
For What It Is Worth
End of first half Greece 42 – Turkey 25.
I just want to comment on the NBA players that I know are playing in the game.
1. Turk – Not much of anything. A few points but a non factor
2. Asik – Bad first qtr when Turkey fell behind. Better second qtr, more what NBA fans are used to seeing from him
3. Kanter – About 6 minutes in the 2nd Qtr. Terrible first half. Nothing on offense. Pretty stagnant. Didn’t move much without the ball. When he tried to set a screen it led a turnover and a run out by Greece resulting in an easy basket.
Defense – No one reading this will believe what I am about to write.
Bargnani’s defense is materially better than what Kanter’s looked like in the first half. He was absolutely horrible.
Koufos and Erden
I forgot he was on the Greek team. If he is the guy out there I think he is then he looked about the same as last season in the NBA. Though he did a pretty good job defending Asik in the first quarter.
Erden – Don’t know which guy he is. I think he was the first big off the bench. Hard to tell since I don’t recall what he looks like.
No sound on this game worth listening to.
Greece Wins an Ugly Forgettable Game 62 - 38
I think Turkey had more turnovers than FG in the second half.
No Kanter sighting in second half, even in garbage time. The Turkey coach put his starters back in, I guess as punishment, in garbage time.
Next up Russia at LTU
thanks for the update buddah
i think im liking jonas more than kanter now lol
I always thought Greece-Turkey was a pretty big basketball rivalry. This must have been a pretty sweet win for the Greeks, although this is still a warm-up before the main tournament (right?)
It’s something we miss out on in Canada, since we’re so large and we only border one country. In Europe, one can have several geographic rivals, and since the difference in talent usually isn’t huge, who is on top in a given cycle can come down one golden generation of players. And this could be played out across multiple sports, ie I think both countries have soccer squads that are good enough to qualify for the World Cup as well.
Think of all those teams in Latin America, and how they compete against each other in the regional soccer or baseball tournaments. When we face Puerto Rico, none of our fans are taking buses down there, or their fans to cheer up here.
Awesome post. It would be cool to see the results for other teams.
LA Clippers
Racist owner
Baron Davis
Billy Crystal
Blake Griffin dunking
OKC
Fake Seattle
Durantula
Presti is a genius
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 19, 2011 12:50 PM EDT reply actions
Clippers
1. Ralph Lawler
2. Michael Cage
3. Eton Brand
4. Injuries
5. Lottery
6. EJ (Eric Gordon)
7. Blake
8. Spirit Dance Team
Clippers
Racist Owner who also happens to be an all around despicable human being
Shame of the NBA
Habitually refusing to spend money
Clippers Bad Karma induced knee injuries
Feeling sorry for Blake Griffin
Bill Simmons cheating on the Celtics
+1000000 to the clippers owner
how that fool is allowed to own an NBA team is beyond me.
Clippers: until recently I always thought of it as a team that got high lottery picks who developed for a while and then left. I guess the Raptors carry that reputation to some degree, unfortunately, as well.
It's a black mark on the entire NBA...
It sometime troubles me to the core to be a fan of a league that would continue to let that human garbage be an owner.
Dolan and Sterling are two completely different animals. While Dolan is incompetent and a meddling, narcissistic douche bag, Sterling is all of the above with generous helpings of evil and depravity added in.
Dolan vs Sterling
On one hand they are both meddling owners who make terrible decisions.
On the other hand one is a racist pig who owns in a league filled with the people he hates. Sterling is stupid and evil, Dolan is just stupid. To me, there’s a big difference.
by defensive rap on Aug 22, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
One things about Toronto's history that basketball (as an Afro-American dominated sport doesn't take into account)
Is how Toronto came to be known as the place where black men and women could be free, earn a living, educate their children, allowed to openly practice politics and social organization (see the history of St Lawrence hall), and help others they knew in captivity get to freedom.
The US is built on the backs of skilled Black men and women – from their incredible buildings, to their guns. In Canada they found a place where they could ply these trades for their own advantage – and to the benefit of their children and loved ones. Meanwhile people from as far from Kentucky would try to abduct them back to the US for bounty as escaped slaves.
Yes Canada had its racisms, but why do we have to live with stupid associations to dinosaurs and exchange rates? Don’t let our history die…. It’s more than a ‘catchphrase’ like the underground railroad…. much more than that..much more…
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
I suppose MLSE could change the franchise name to the “Toronto Underground Railway” and try to claim that they were referencing the TTC. That would be a real stick in the eye to the US in the confederate states in particular. TUR games might get banned in some states!
Jenge, correct me if I have misinterpreted your suggestion.
Jenge, correct me if I have misinterpreted your suggestion.
I was thinking that the Underground Railroad might work, but its tough to work in something that surely Toronto doesn’t own entirely. ie. The UR was in a lot of US states – very much so in states like Pennsylvania for instance.
This is a hard topic to convert into a competitive sports team. I mean does the ‘Toronto Emancipation’, ‘Toronto Freedom’ or ‘Toronto Where Black People could be free, own a house, start a business, join a political organization and start a bookclub’ sound like a good team name?
I mean ‘Toronto Liberty’…ummm… hell no… perhaps ‘The Toronto Underground’ might do it. for me though?
This way we can get back on the right side of history (dont get me wrong – Toronto has seen its share of racial ugliness…) But we can not forget what a pivotal place TO was during emancipation. If players don’t want to come here, thats fine…. but at least let them know why some ancestors came in the past – and why..
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
I could get behind this...
“The Toronto Express”? Check out this link as an example of a possible logo:
http://pinoygov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Express2.gif
Cool name and could relate to the historical context you have so rightly and eloquently highlighted Jenge.
that train is eating a puck... perfect for a basketball team in canada...lol
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
Toronto Express
Take it a step further and call the ACC, “Freedom Centre”
by defensive rap on Aug 22, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Toronto Raptors - Pre-Claw Logo
1) Purple Uni’s
2) Vince Carter in a tie with Damon Stoudamire (Sorry Mo Pete, you deserve to be the Raptors Joe Carter, but just didn’t work out that way) aka. One man teams…which leads to…
3) Fire my agent, work on escape plan
4) Perennial Bottom Seed…
5) Hopelessly lacking talent
"the Truth"
Toronto - Post-Claw Logo
1) Professional Image – Don’t feel like me and my kids should be watching games on the cartoon network anymore…
2) High Output Offense, lacking defensive punch (or slap, or even talk to the hand diva style action)
3) Higher Talent level, more evenly spread (good supporting cast)… lacking One-Two punch top talent
4) Playoff Potential
5) Rebuild teetering on the blade of a sword…
"the Truth"
Russia vs Lithuania and Jonas
The Bad
-————————
1. LTU lost again to Russia this time at home 80 – 88
2. Jonas made only 3 of 8 Free Throws
3. He had the ball knocked out of his hands too many times for my liking, though he only finished with two turnovers in the official stat sheet.
4. He again had a tough time stopping Mozgov on the inside due to Mosgov’s superior strength.
The Good
-—————————
1. He started
2. He played 30 minutes
3. He committed only one personal foul
4. He finished with 13 points on 5-8 from the field and 3-8 from the free throw line
The Very Good
-——————————-
1. He finished with the highest Efficiency rating on the LTU team again with a 19
2. He had 16 rebounds 7 on offense and 9 on defense
Once he gets stronger he will definitely be a beast, make no mistake about it.
Tomorrow in the third of a back to back to back LTU hosts Latvia which I understand is a very physical team.
Bargnani's New Rebounding Caddy?
I hope not.
Love the updates on the overseas action Buddah and echo everyone’s appreciation for Jonas’ game. Not so worried about him getting bullied by Mozgov, everyone knows he’s gotta fill out and get stronger. Right now though, he already has one very translatable skill set for the NBA – his rebounding.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 22, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN - The L.A. In My Game With Amir Johnson
Nice long interview
I learned a bunch of stuff about Amir that I didn’t know before like
1. He had previously broken one foot prior to his Senior year in high school.
2. He played a lot in what are called the “travel leagues”.
I did know about his problems with recruiting violations at Westchester High.
He talks a bit about his track and field career in high school
My first sport was track. I was a good track and fielder and I was really into it.
Johnson: I don’t know. I have to say, I think I put in the work myself. It was all me, because I wasn’t really a basketball player. I was a track star
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/21548/the-l-a-in-my-game-with-amir-johnson
Here is one with DeMar
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/19731/the-l-a-in-my-game-with-demar-derozan
Keep pushing the re-brand, I'm with you man!
Here’s a few name ideas…
Towers
Trappers
Tree-Huggers
Tax Payers
Teamsters
Turtlenecks
Touques
Two-by-Fours
Two-Fours
Five-Holes
Horse Flies
Trout
I Give Up
No One Mentioned Loud?
Study shows that the noise in the basketball arena at Lithuanian home games is comparable to an aircraft propeller or pneumatic drill.
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