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by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 7, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
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PrintThe Toronto Raptors are holding pre-draft workouts at the Air Canada Centre today. Guards Kemba Walker and Brandon Knight headline seperate sessions at the request of Knight's camp.
The Raptors also got a look at Enes Kanter yesterday in Chicago at Tim Grover's ATTACK Athletics. He was reportedly on the floor for 75 minutes along with Raptors assistant coach Scott Roth. Raptors senior director of scouting Jim Kelly was highly complimentary of Kanter’s strength and conditioning.
Another one for the rumour mill: Hoopsworld's Bill Ingram is claiming that the Minnesota Timberwolves have told him that the Raptors are the frontrunners to acquire the second pick. Personally, I don't think Bryan Colangelo can accept that offer fast enough, if it's indeed on the table.
Here's a look at every championship ring ever.
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Not sure that Derozan is worse than Williams which this trade essentially boils down to.
Here is how it actually looks.
Derozan & Knight/Walker
Williams & Flynn.
Doesn’t Minnesota win that trade hands down? I would at least expect another high lottery protected pick back from them (say protected top 5). After all we are doing them a huge favour taking Flynn off their hands so they can play Rubio without any controversy (not that there would necessarily be any but if he struggled out of the gate……)
I think the T-Wolves would probably go for Valanciunas, Biyombo or Kanter with the #5. After trading Flynn to make room for Rubio it would make no sense for them to turn around a draft a PG.
My point was that Knight/Walker is what the Raptors would draft if there were no trade. They probably would draft Valanciunas which is all the more reason for Toronto to not do this deal. Why are going out of our way to help other teams? If Minny wants one of those three at the 5 then just draft him at the 2.
I agree with you this deal is not great for the Raptors. If the deal was Bargnani + 5 for Flynn + 2 + Milicic(salary filler) then that might be a basis to work from.
Very well could include Bargnani, link to follow...
The team has reportedly narrowed down their choices to Williams and Enes Kanter at the moment, but it has also been calling around the league recently to see what this pick might yield via trade, asking particularly for a “veteran big man.”
"the Truth"
the Raps would also
be trading a question mark (Derozan) for a bigger question mark (Williams). Plus taking Flynn.
Not a deal I want to see either way.
Why is no one talking Bargnani for a #2 (or any draft pick)… I thought there were so many calls to Brian Colangelo about him……..
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 7, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally agree McGateway
Not sure how trading DeRozan for Williams is a good move for the Raptors.
IF DeRozan extended his range to three-point territory while becoming at least passable defensively, then I’m not as bullish on a deal. But I think Williams could ultimately fill more of a need at the 3/4. And there are a lot of other two guards who could exceed DeRozan’s production.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 7, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
So we give DeRozan one year to show everything he's got and then cut our losses because he's not an All Star in his second season?
Yea, makes sense…
"the Truth"
DeRozan still looks like the shooting guard version of Bargnani to me: high usage, low efficiency, poor passer, etc. The inflated scoring average is the product of being given the green light on a 22-win team. His three-point percentage dropped to embarassing levels this past season. And his defence is atrocious.
If you have the opportunity to flip a below average, former number nine pick for the second overall pick, I think you do it. You should ultimately emerge with the most talented player out of the trade.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 7, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't argue with your logic, completely...
My only issue is that, if you constantly turn guys out the door because they weren’t immediately what you want them to be, you’ll never develop the talent, you’ll just keep looking for the next slightly better thing…
Keeping in mind we aren’t a draw for already developed talent, it seems like a recipe for disaster to not take our lumps at once and let guys grow, but rather taking a little lump, twice a day, every day, for the rest of the franchise’s life…
Maybe we eventually luck out and snag two MVP candidates in successive drafts… but most perennial Lottery teams, stay perennial lottery teams… You have to build something of merit through working at it rather than trying to luck out…
"the Truth"
Keep in mind this is Draftpocalypse we're talking about here...
possibly the WORST draft ever. So I give no value to Williams being the 2nd pick or 2nd highest ranked player as in an average draft he’s probably more in the 7 -10 range…
Not to continue with the DeRozan bashing (I really hope the kid takes a leap this season), but here are the team needs determined by positional production.
Obviously, centre is the biggest hole on the Raps followed by the 2/3 positions.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 7, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair point
But it has to be taken into consideration that the final chapters in the story of Demar DeRozan’s development have not yet been written. So if you’re looking at it positionally, your giving up a prospect in one area of need for a prospect in another area of need and thereby moving latterally.
Oh and LOL at our deficit at centre being the single largest deficiet for ANY team at ANY position! The thought makes me hungry… Someone pass me the Primo Pasta!
Yep, but what a unique skill set he has. Totally continue to build around that, Colangelo.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 7, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
According to this chart, the Bobcats need a PF and additionally they have scoring problems. Perhaps the Raptors can interest them in Bargnani in some kind of a deal to make for them pulling out of the Chandler trade last off-season.
Michael Jordan and the Charlotte Bobcats seem like the ideal landing place for a player like Bargnani.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 7, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? So you think a player who is basically Michael Beasley without the head issues is a better play than Derozan is? Look I am not a huge DD fan but it seems silly to take Flynn back in the deal too. I think taking a chance on Flynn is not a bad idea but you cannot tell me he is a better player right now than Derozan is and Williams is barely a lottery pick in a normal year so at best that is a wash. If Knight or Walker are better (or Kanter or Val if you want to go that route) than Flynn too then it is a bad trade. Period.
i just puked in my mouth,
i don`t see how trading derozan would help the team in the present or the future. Especially after he showed such a big improvement in almost ever aspect of his game as the season went on. I think taking flynn would be a favor for Minni. Moving up 3 spots for derozan doesnt make sense as it would just open another gaping hole needing attention
Some points are debatable, but I am in your corner...
Especially after he showed such a big improvement in almost ever aspect of his game as the season went on
He showed multiple areas of improvement.
And he demonstrated a high level work ethic and receptiveness to coaching and criticism.
"the Truth"
Like I said that's why I felt "almost every aspect" was too much...
But I am supremely confident that defense is his primary improvement goal this off-season…
"the Truth"
You Aren't Going To Improve Your Defense
playing in the Drew League during the summer or for that matter at any time.
The only things he can do during the summer to improve his defense is get stronger, improve his lateral movement, study game film, study more game film and study even more game film.
and put a big sign up in his home saying where he can see it regularly.
“No one scores on me”
Yea, exactly, and with the dedication to improving a specific facet to his game he's shown already, and hearing him declare that next year he wanted to be much improved on defense...
I would assume he is going to spend as much time and effort as possible dedicating himself to improving his defense…
The Drew League can keep his game sharp, but there are many waking hours in a day, and I guarantee you he spends more hitting weights, watching film and running drills than he does playing games…
"the Truth"
Draft Trades
If there was ever a draft to trade down in (or all together) this would be it. I means Williams is considered the number two prospect yet no-one really knows whether he is a 3 or 4 and there are legitimate questions about whether he is a tweener or not. Frankly, there should be no questions about the number 2 pick in a draft. To add further support to what a weak draft this is people are debating whether Knight would be a significant upgrade to Bayless who as we all know has been traded a number of times and was a back-up on a 22 win team.
The issue here is the contract given to BC gives him incentive to get better and better fast – perhaps faster than what is required. I am hard pressed to believe this deal makes any sense.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jun 7, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions
Keep Your Trash Talking Post About Bayless
Then re-post it another three years LOL
I am not suggesting....
he won’t become a solid player and nothing I wrote isn’t accurate.
The point is there is no-one in this draft (with the exception of Irving) who floats my boat. There are too many important unanswered questions about guys who are going to go in the top 5.
We are in that time of year when people become infatuated with certain players despite their obvious flaws. If we look beyond the trees and rather look at the whole forest it seems more and more clear that this is the year to move back and acquire assets for later on.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jun 7, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with u on the point that other than Irving, no other player floats my boat either.
The draft redefines the meaning of the words draft and project.
DRAFTPOCALYPSE !!!!!!
Trademarked by Mas11 – circa 2011 : )
I Want To See More Of Irving
How many games did he play last season?
No doubt he has a lot of ability but only time will tell how good he can become.
Of course you can say that about almost all rookies.
Multiply that by 1000 for Enes Kanter.
Saw an interesting thought on Twitter earlier today – basically the question was: I wonder if Kanter would be so highly regarded if he actually played at Kentuky.
IYO Knight Will Become Better Than Bayless
How many times has Billups been traded?
If Bayless were 25 then I might agree with you. But he is still only 22 and has been stuck his whole career behind some darn good PGs like Miller, CP3 and even Calderon who is a pretty good PG despite what his bashers say.
Are you suggesting...
that you expect Bayless to become Billups? If so I would recommend you keep this post and post it again in another 3 years!
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jun 7, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No I Am Not Suggesting That
I am saying that the fact that Bayless has already played for three teams the first two with a very good starting PG and the second with great starting PG is no reason to think that at 22 he can not become an all-star within the next 3 – 5 seasons.
Raptors fans get really hung up about their draft choices being the greatest thing since sliced toast, eg how long have Raptors fans defended Bargnani and to where even less than a year ago some were comparing him to Dirk but the young players that they acquire via trade will never amount to much.
I can’t begin to tell you how many times that Arsenalist has upgraded his opinion of Amir who has also been with three teams.
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