RaptorsHQ Prospect Preview #5 - Brandon Knight
by Adam Francis on Jun 6, 2011 9:17 AM EDT
in NBA Draft
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Continuing their look at the upcoming draft's top prospects, the HQ turns their attention to Kentucky's Brandon Knight...
Back at the end of May, we asked readers in one of our regular Sunday polls, if Toronto not being able to draft Brandon Knight was the end of the world.
The poll was inspired by the fact that many mock drafts had Knight being snatched up before the Raptors even had a shot at him, most likely, by the Utah Jazz with the third overall pick.
The results of the poll though indicated that missing out on Knight wasn't the worst thing that could happen, as most readers felt that Bryan Colangelo could find value elsewhere in the draft.
But there's no question though that Knight appears to be the preferred target in this draft for the majority of Raptors' fans. He's not a perfect choice, but in this draft, few are, and Knight certainly brings a number of skills to the table that bode very well for a long and distinguished NBA career.
What are those skills?
Well for a closer look at the freshman phenom, we reached out to SB Nation's Kentucky Wildcats' blog, "A Sea of Blue," and Managing Editor Glenn Logan gave us this in-depth look at the young PG:
Dossier: Brandon Knight, Freshman, University of Kentucky
High school highlights:
- Two-time Gatorade High School Athlete of the Year; Only the third junior ever to receive the award (LeBron James and Greg Oden were the other two);
- Lead high scool (Pine Crest School in Ft. Lauderdale, a mostly academic-oriented institution) to 2 straight Florida 3A championships;
- Entered the University of Kentucky with a 4.3 GPA. Advanced placement classes plus his single year at UK left him just a few hours short of junior classification after only one year at UK.
University of Kentucky Highlights:
- Had 31 points, 7 rebounds and 4 assists in his debut game at UK;
- Leading freshman scorer in Kentucky history, surpassing such players as John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins, and Rex Chapman;
- 2nd-leading assist total for a freshman at UK. Only John Wall has more;
- Most 3-point field goals ever by a freshman at Kentucky;
- Led Kentucky in scoring in his only year at the university;
- Led Kentucky to their first Final Four in 13 seasons;
Professional game: SWOT analysis:
Strengths:
- Excellent pick-and-roll player, unquestionably the best P&R point guard available in the draft. Can make the three at any range, and is adept at the pocket pass off the roll.
- Extremely, but not freakishly athletic;
- Changes ends faster than any guard in the 2011 draft, and arguably as fast as any current pro other than John Wall;
- Off-the-charts basketball IQ. One of the most intelligent and intellectually curious players to enter the NBA in a long while at this level of skill;
- Extremely coachable. Accepts coaching well, and understands instructions;
- Professional attitude. Never gets too "up" and never gets down on himself or his ability. Supremely confident, but does not need to demonstrate to show it;
- Perhaps the hardest-working player ever to play at Kentucky. His work ethic has no peer anywhere;
- Unlimited shooting range, good passing skills;
- Leader on and off the floor;
- Can get his own shot anytime;
- Extremely quick shot release, quicker than anyone in this draft;
- Fearless. Will take the big shot anytime, succeed or fail, and come right back and do it again;
Weaknesses:
- Weak left hand. Can finish left, but weakly. Does not go left well off the bounce;
- Not a great defender. Guards poorly to his left and lacks a commitment to defense;
- Good, but not great floor vision. Can turn the ball over a lot, does not see the weak side defender that well;
- Tends to shoot too quickly, and will often take the first open look;
- Not a true point guard, and had a scoring mentality that often works against his position;
- Does not fight through screens as well as he should for his size;
- Not a particularly physical player, and does not play through contact that well.
Opportunities:
- Dedicated to learning the point, but has a way to go to get there at the NBA level. Has not quite learned to sacrifice his scoring for setting up his teammates.
- Can really help a young team grow by showing his leadership. Is unafraid to learn from veterans, and has the patience to do whatever it takes to help his team.
- With work, he can become a knock-down 3-point shooter, and gets the shot off so fast he needs very little room.
Threats:
- Plays a very fast, sometimes reckless game. Has never had questions about durability, but does put himself in a position to get injured a lot.
- Can be too much of a volume shooter at times, and this works against his position. We don't know if he can unlearn that reflex to score in favor of setting up teammates.
- Will not have near the speed advantage over pros as he did over college players. Not sure how he will react to that.
Overall, Brandon Knight is the first or second best NBA point guard in the draft. He is less a pure point that Kyrie Irving, but has a much quicker release, comparable athleticism and can learn to be a dominant left-handed player with his work ethic and the right instruction. Has better size and strength than either Irving or Kemba Walker.
Brandon Knight does not know how to be an NBA point, and his likely role will be more along the lines of a combo guard until he unlearns his reflexive scoring mentality. His handle is good with both hands and he has a good, but not great first step. Athletically, he is a cut below the Derrick Roses and John Walls of the world, and does not finish as well at the rim as the top point guards in the NBA. But Knight is an utterly tireless and completely dedicated worker, and if he has to work 12 hours a day in the off season, he will.
A big thanks to Glenn for his insightful breakdown of Knight, one that I think points out the various reasons folks seem to be high on the former Wildcat, and yet also have legitimate concerns about his game at the next level. Indeed he's no John Wall or Derrick Rose, but I'd argue in this draft that he's as good as it gets after Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams, and these clips help show off a lot of what's to like about his game.
Will he be around at 5?
That's the big question right now and if Toronto decides that Knight is the player they want at all costs, they may have to trade up to grab him.
Right now though it sounds like the Raps are considering a number of options still, including another successful NCAA guard, Kemba Walker, so it may come down to the workouts in terms of deciding which horse the Raps run with.
Oh...and those workouts start tomorrow.
Wouldn't it be interesting if Mr. Knight and Mr. Walker both showed up?
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i like him!
providing he is available at 5 or we can trade down to get him. nice informations on him thank you.
If he is still on the board at 5
I guess you gotta take him.
Wonder if that would put Bayless on the block?
This guy might well turn out to be the best in the draft. The insights provided by Mr Logan on his work ethic and leadership qualities and everything else make him sound worth the pick.
Thanks folks
We’ve been lucky to get some people who’ve spent a lot of time either watching or covering these prospects first-hand so makes for a good read.
Love doing these previews as well and we’ve still got a few more to come…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
Defense
For a guy with a seemingly great mind for basketball and plenty of athleticism it is a little disappointing to hear that he doesn’t have a very big appetite for defense. Hopefully, that will improve as he matures and gets stronger.
If the Raptors come out of the draft with a young athletic Knight-DeRozan backcourt then perhaps a summer of “defensive badass” camp would be in order for them. Does such a thing exist ;)
Reading Like A Lower Grade Jerryd Bayless Dossier Without The Pro Experience
If the Raptors take him I will live with it.
What? You mean you won't disband the team and dissolve the league immediately?
LOL, what else would you do but live with it if you hated the decision?
Just askin…
"the Truth"
I Never Said I Would Hate The Decision
I can live with it.
There will be players on the board when the Raptors draft who can better fill their needs.
Knight is redundant and a lower quality redundancy at that.
You don’t use a 5th pick to draft a bench player.
Maybe you do and maybe BC will, however I wouldn’t.
The Raptors need to get rid of Bargnani more than anything else.
Unless drafting Knight allows the Raptors to trade Bargnani I see no reason for drafting him.
The Raptors need to draft someone with the 5th pick who can start for them in a year or two. Knight is not that guy unless they want to degrade the PG and SG spots.
Undersized #2s just don’t cut it in the NBA. Knight is 6’ 1.5" without shoes. No way he will ever become a solid NBA starter at the #2
He is light years behind Bayless and Bayless is just now starting to figure it out the PG spot in the NBA. Knight is years away if every from becoming a starting PG in the NBA.
I see Knight as a Barbosa type player who can give you quick points off the bench and play a little PG in an emergency. That is what I see as his upside.
Umm, you missed my point entirely...
I wasn’t commenting on whether you liked or hated it, or what you would or wouldn’t do with the pick…
Or what I would do with the pick…
I was asking what would you do if you hated it… you said you’d live with it…
As opposed to what? Making a call and changing the pick? Disbanding the team? Firing Colangelo? What other choice do you have but to “live with it”?
I thought it was a funny thing to say, being as you have no choice no matter what they do other than to “live with it”…
"the Truth"
I Can Live With It
That means that every time a player I think they should draft plays better than Knight, I will probably mutter to myself something like. “Why didn’t BC listen to me? and they signed him to an extension?”
I have a sense that if the Raptors draft Knight with the #5 pick that I will be saying that too often.
Its not going to kill me when I mutter that but it for sure won’t make me happy, So I can live with it.
Unless drafting Knight allows the Raptors to trade Bargnani I see no reason for drafting him.
Drafting Knight means you can trade Jose, for Bargnani’s replacement hopefully, then trade Bargnani for a useful SF…
"the Truth"
I believe jenge is commenting on your thought that we can get a “useful SF” for Bargnani. If this is the case, I too share his thoughts, that this is not realistic and therefore fantasy… and therefore related to unicorns…
Knight's upside
Surprised Buddahfan that you’re so down on Knight and consider him a bench player at best.
I think his upside is way better than Bayless’ and while I agree he won’t be able to start right away, I do think he’ll be able to contribute in certain ways right off the bat.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
I Am Not Down On Knight
I just don’t see him as a #2 or being better than Bayless.
Only time will tell.
He doesn’t fill a need for the Raptors that is the problem I have with the Raptors drafting him.
If they didn’t have Bayless then I would strongly support Knight being drafted by the Raptors if Kanter or Williams were not available when the Raptors draft.
In fact if the Raptors drafted #1 I would prefer Williams or Kanter to Irving simply because of Bayless and the Raptors main needs.
Sorry, but I really like Bayless game and upside as a PG. He is still only 22.
Adam,
Realistically, how much upside does a 6’3 player with few actual PG skills have? I personally don’t understand why people like him so much.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
I think it may be because the same things were said about Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook and John Wall (and others). All of those guys had questionable PG skills when they entered the league, but they’ve been able to make the transition pretty well. Now obviously Knight doesn’t have their athletic ability, but he’s not so far off and some would argue he has a more mature and varied offensive game than those three.
Look I hear you about the lack of innate PG skills, but sometimes it’s easier to make an NBA calibre basketball player into a PG than it is to make PG into an NBA calibre basketball player.
Oh and add to that...
That you’re options other than Knight at number 5 might be a homelessman’s Andre Kirelenko (Vesely) or a poor man’s Andrieas Beidrens (Jonas V.)…….. I’d rather take my chances teaching Brandon Knight how to run an NBA pick and roll…
according to the prospect review he’s already great in the pick and roll
elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly
At least Valanciunas is a center. Knight might not even HAVE a position. To be honest, though, I’d probably rather choose Leonard, if Kanter is gone, or simply try and move up to be able to draft/acquire Kanter.
And being a PG is far, far more than simply being able to run the pick and roll. You can’t run the pick and roll in transition or on fast breaks. And, quite frankly, Knight is good at running the pick and roll because he can score off it. It’s not like he’s great at setting up teammates with it.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
I don’t recall Rose or Wall having questionable PG skills at all. Not in the least. There was some questions about Westbrook, but even now, despite having an All-Star year, Oklahoma is rumoured to be not completely happy with him because of his decision making in the playoffs. Oklahoma always seemed to play best when Westbrook was playing pass first, yet too often his shoot-first instincts took over.
It’s why so many combo guards fail to make the transition to PG in the NBA. PGs need to instinctually want to pass and make those around them better. There’s not a switch you can flip to make it happen. Does Knight have the ability? I don’t know, but I’ve simply seen far too many players like Knight fail to want to take a chance on him.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Typically I would agree with you Tim. I too like my PGs to be traditional PGs. Except when I look at the talent in this draft purely from an asset perspective, I’m highly dubious of guys like Vesely and Valanciunas, who are the guys that are in Knight’s range. So comparitively, I beleive Knight’s overall talent level may make him the best option at #5. While not ideal, you can teach PG skills, you can’t teach talent. So I would rather take a chance on a guy who could be an All-Star over a guy who may be the next Andreis Beidrens… Oh and BTW there was much discussion on whether John Wall and Derick Rose had the requisit skill set to be traditional PGs in the NBA. However, there was little to no discussion on whether they should go #1 overal due to their supreme talent level.
Wall, Rose and Westbrook were all considered to have off the charts athleticism. Knight seems to be a half-step behind those guys in that department.
Westbrook’s selection was justified at the time with the argument that while he had work to do on his play-making that he was a superb PG defender. As the write-up states, Knight has potential, but is not currently a great defender.
I don’t mind if the Raptors draft Knight, but he strikes me as a PG version of DeRozan. Very raw, with a strong work ethic that hopefully will be sufficient to get him to where he needs to be.
I wouldn’t classify him as “very raw” as he already has a mature offensive game, much moreso than DeRozan did coming out of collage, despite being the youngest player in this draft. Having said that, he obviously has some work to do in the PG department, but I would argue having a strong foundation of a mature offensive game to build on can be a positive as apposed to a negative.
I disagree. You can’t teach PG skills. Or if you can, it takes YEARS. Chauncey Billups is an example people always bring up, but the guy took four years and five teams before he made the transition. And that was considered a success.
As for the options, I already said I’d rather take Leonard, if Kanter’s not available.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
almost every PG
who comes out of the draft has the same question marks…. can they play PG at the NBA level.
Its obviously to a different degree for different players…. but, except for maybe Chris Paul, I can’t think of PG that wasn’t questioned. 90% of the time that question is, can they be a passing PG. Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Deron Willams etc etc.
Not trying to say anything about what Knight will or won’t be… but if a team is not going to draft a PG based on questioning whether they have PG skills that translate at the NBA level… well a team will likely never draft a PG. (and I’m not saying thats even a bad thing)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 7, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya I have to agree wtih NSFS here...
The list of NBA PGs that had questions surrounding their “PG skills” and then were ultimately successful is MUCH longer than Billups. I listed several that came in the league in the last several years and there are dozens more. So I don’t think that specific skill deficit is a show stopper whatsoever.
Although
The list of college combo guards(ie short SGs) who attempted to become PGs in the NBA and failed is much longer than the few Rondos, Westbrooks and Roses who have succeeded. Most of these guys either washed out of the league or became career backups.
An obvious example of PG whose play-making skills aren’t being questioned is Irving in this year’s draft.
NSFS, Deron Williams was questioned more from a conditioning point of view than for his play-making skills. At least from what I remember.
So can we agree then that since there are many examples on both sides of the argument that a percieved lack of true PG skills – while important to consider – should not be the determining factor as to whether the player should be drafted?
I’d say “perceived lack of true PG skills” would be a similarly serious flaw as something lack “perceived lack of centre size” for a centre prospect. If you have some reason to think the play can overcome the shortcoming over time (growth, strength, work ethic, high bball IQ, athleticism, etc…) then you can take a chance on that guy.
here’s the thing. I think every position has its usual concerns.
C – is a player big/strong/tough enough
PF – is a player big enough and have enough offense
SF – is a player long enough, athletic enough, and have enough offense
SG – is a player athletic enough and can they shoot well enough (I’d add tall enough but thats more the combo guard concern)
PG – can the player be a passer and/or run an offense.
Rarely, if ever, are all these (key?) elements met. When they are, that guy gets drafted high. Unfortunately there is only 1 guy in this draft that seems to be able to meet these basic requirements (Irving), and 60 guys have to get drafted one way or another.
So then the question becomes what is Knights (or Kemba or Leonards etc) risk and potential reward vs anyone else.
For me its Irving – Kanter – Knight and my confidence level in Knight is far below those two.
(Honestly I’m gonna go on record and say I hate the draft. I don’t trust 99% of the players that get drafted. But its a necessary part of a teams development)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 7, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally disagree
You can teach PG skills, you cannot teach a player to grow another 2 inches…
I don’t think you can teach a player court vision or passing instincts.
Looking at a well-worn example, how long have we been waiting for Bargnani to learn defensive skills. Those should theoretically be teachable, too.
But we’ve already discussed that there are players that came into the league with questionable PG skills but were able to make the transition successfully. So yes, you CAN teach these skills.
The number of players who came into the league with questionable PG skills and flourished as PGs in the NBA is much smaller than you are saying. Guys like Rose, Williams, Rondo etc, didn’t have questionable PG skills, and I don’t really know why you think so.
This from DraftExpress on Rondo (pre-NBA)
"As a point guard, Rondo is of the pass-first variety, being highly unselfish and featuring excellent court vision and passing ability.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rajon-Rondo-216/#ixzz1Oc9ZD0vx
http://www.draftexpress.com
About the only player you’ve mentioned who DID have questionable PG skills was Westbrook, and despite his stellar play, his future with the team is being questioned because he still lacks true PG skills.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
If you are talking about the superstars listed above then their overall talent (including things like court vision and anticipation) enabled them to take the next step. Also, a lot of those listed above actually did not have questions about their playmaking skills (for example, Deron Williams).
If you are talking about guys like Tim lists below(Devin Harris, Rodney Stuckey, Jason Terry) then no you CANNOT teach court vision and other useful PG attributes (I wouldn’t call them skills, you either have them or you don’t, like size).
You absolutely can look terrible in one system and shine in another...
Keep in mind that the types of skills required to be a successful point guard have to be flexible and in balance with the type of system the team is gonna run…
One point guard isn’t going to be the best in every offense, and as such, “lesser” guards can outperform “better” players because they are better suited to a particular system…
It’s all relative…
"the Truth"
Great point
Also, having other ball handlers on the court at the same time as the PG changes things as well.
D-Wade and Lebron hardly NEED to play with Steve Nash
Now, we don’t have ANY of those three names, but you see my argument against such a blanket statement over a PG’s NBA readiness…
Does he have to be ready to simply play defense and get the ball over half?
Or does he need to create every play, while scoring the most points, getting double digit assists, and racking up highlight dunk after highlight dunk?
It’s all relative…
"the Truth"
If a team has a LeBron or Jordan or Bird on the team, then you can get away with not having a true PG because they have been some of the best passers at their position in the history of the league. All three of those guys could (or did) play the PG position if they have the physical skills.
Until the Raptors are able to acquire a player like that, then the safest thing to do is have a PG who can actually run an offense and make those around him better.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Yes, I agree. But you should be able to SEE something when he plays, and I simply don’t with Knight. I think he’s an excellent player, but I just didn’t see a PG, quite frankly.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
I agree there is a slew of PG who just couldn’t cut… that were/are stucking in that combo guard position. There will also be a crap load more assuming 2012 doesn’t get us all.
I also agree that Irving isn’t being questioned… which is one of the reasons he’s at the top of the heap.
As for Deron, yes his conditioning was questioned but whether he could be a passing PG also was. He, like most elite pgs in college, spent alot of time scoring since he was the best player on his team. I remember numerous times hearing about how he was a risk because he was more of a combo guard.
The question I think generally is, is it worth the risk given what a team has (or needs), the draft class and where a team is drafting
I’m gonna say I’m not really for or against drafting Knight. If this was any other draft I’d laugh if the Raps were talking about taking him at 5… unfortunately with the calibre of the draft he probably is the best risk (of those who could fall to the Raps). If I had my way it would be Irving or Kanter or trade down. Unfortunately BC doesn’t seem to listen to me no matter how many times I wait for him at his house and ignore those pesky police officers.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 7, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep trying...
…I am sure you will get through sooner or later. At worst, you will see him in court. ;)
HQ is gonna need to start a “Free NSFS” charity program.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 7, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely wrong about Williams
Deron Williams’ playmaking skills were never, ever questioned when he came into the league and I really have no idea where you are getting this.
His scouting report, pre-NBA:
Fundamentally sound. Has an incredible knack for running a basketball team, he knows how to feed his teammates and always places the ball exactly where they want it thanks to his outstanding court vision and feel for the game.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Deron-Williams-72/#ixzz1OcBxyqxa
http://www.draftexpress.com
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Maybe your idea of questions and mine are different. Sure, EVERY player has questions, but I don’t recall there being any questions about the majority of currently successful PGs ability to actually be able to play PG. I had questions about Holiday, but that’s about it. Westbrook, I pegged as a sure-fire talent, but, as I mentioned, even Westbrook’s lack of true PG instincts are currently being questioned.
Guys like Deron Williams, Rondo, Rose etc were all PGs in college and played like it. They all showed the ability to run a team, something I have yet to see from Knight. Knight not only isn’t a good passer, he also turns the ball over far, far too much for my liking. None of those guys had a flaw like that. One of the most important things for a PG is his decision making, and Knight, quite frankly, hasn’t shown good decision making skills as a PG. That’s a massive red flag, in my books.
The guys who came into the league with similar skills (and weaknesses) as Knight are guys like Ben Gordon, Rodney Stuckey, Jason Terry and Devin Harris. All guys who are decent to good players, but not one of them have been able to play the PG position to the degree that their team was happy with it.
I’m not saying Knight definitely can’t be a good PG in the league, but the chances are not good, when you look at other similar players who entered the league. I just don’t think it’s worth the risk. Not when there are other players I’d rather take.
Now if the Raptors were drafting farther down, and he dropped, I wouldn’t have a problem taking him. But at 5, I don’t like it.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Kenucky/Clippers fan stopping by:
I think Jason Terry is the best comp for Knight. I doubt he will ever develop top flight point guard instincts. Terry had one year with the Hawks where he averaged about 19 ppg and 7 apg. I think that’s what Brandon will do at his peak, and I think he’s quite likely to reach that level.
In this draft, I think you guys should be happy with getting that kind of production out of the 5th pick. Unless Kanter falls, a franchise player is simply not going to be available. Brandon will be a good NBA player (Jason Terry’s don’t grow on trees). Having a guy who can create his own shot, and do so with a modicum of efficiency, is a valuable thing.
I think Leonard is one step down from Knight in quality, meaning I think he’ll be an average starter at his position. Great rebounder for his position, good defensive potential, but don’t think he will score enough to be more than average. I haven’t seen the foreigners play, so your guess is as good as mine on what they’ll be.
The difference between Knight and Leonard, though, is that I can see Leonard being a starter on a good team. Knight’s most likely future is as a third guard. Or a lead guard on a bad team.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Likely to need to package more in the deal, granted...
But considering the next option behind Johnson at SF is Kleiza, useful doesn’t necessarily take much…
"the Truth"
I'm on the knight bandwagon
If he is there at number #5 I’m sure the raps will take him
by sherwin316 on Jun 6, 2011 11:17 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I've posted this before but this is the most appropriate forum for it so I'll repost...
My thoughts on why Knight might work well here…
The biggest plus side I see in drafting Knight is that it allows the Raptors to develop a very consistent offense.
Because Knight and Bayless are such similar players, you develop an offense that suits one, and it automatically suits the other.
This means that for such a young team across the board, you don’t have to make them all learn two different types of offensive schemes based on which PG is in the game at the time…
It allows one PG to be switched for the other seamlessly without missing a beat or changing the gameplan…
It would be much easier to coach these young players and develop them, without needing to add the confusion of knowing that the two guys getting minutes running the offense, are going to run completely different offenses because their own skillsets are so different…
I don’t think either Knight or Bayless will ever be a "next level" PG but I think that the stability they could provide would really help the team build around them, knowing exactly what they’re going to provide every night…
“the Truth”
by Mikthaniel on May 30, 2011
"the Truth"
And I agree with Defensive Rap...
Jose is one of our best trade assets, in that he is a high level player with a soon to be expiring contract… we should be able to net a deal for a nice permanent fixture from his trade…
draft PG and trade for Center? Should work, next year cross fingers for Barnes and we’re golden…
"the Truth"
O/T - Just Found This Stats Website With A Very Interesting Stat
The sight actually shows how a player did vs each opponent that they played.
It summarizes the individual player matchups based upon what they call “Efficiency”
I started by looking at Amir .
They showed the matchups for all games in which he played 25 or more minutes.
He won 16 and lost 16 of the individual matachups
Some of the players that he outplayed in individual games include
K. Love
Z. Randolph
T. Chandler
E. Brand
Josh Smith twice
C. Boozer
C. Landry
Here are Raptors Regular Rotation Players Individual Matchup Records
Evans 8 – 6
Calderon 28 – 25 – Now that is a surprise for all those that want to dump him.
Bayless 9 – 8
Amir 16 – 16
James Johnson 6 – 7
Kleiza 8 – 10
Davis 9 – 12
DeRozan 25 – 40
Barbosa 8 – 17
Bargnani was 12 – 35
How can a guy score 20+ PPG and be outplayed 3 out of every 4 games he plays 25 or more minutes in?
Another verification that even though DeRozan, Bargnani and Barbosa can all score they consistently got out played by their opponent because of their horrible defense.
Here Is A Breakdown of Matchup Wins and Losses by Postion
PG 41 – 37
PF 38 – 40
SG 36 – 45
Center 30 – 51
SF 26 – 55
I Think That PG Is Last On The Raptors Needs
followed by PF. However, with Calderon still being only 30 next season, Bayless improving at the PG and still only 22, and with Amir and Davis improving I don’t see a need to draft a PG or a PF.
nothing wrong with our SF and C's here.... move along folks ...nothing to see here....
draft a PG …. especially one that isn’t known for playing defence….
I would draft him for his cerebrum and leadership skills….
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
Defensively challenged combo-guard .... is neither a guard nor a point, yet is expected to be both. Makes no sense....
Same thing with SG Derozan – he doesn’t guard yet.
I was hoping that Derozan wears a mask this season so that other teams think he’s Rip Hamilton — and hence fear his D.
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
Great find Buddahfan
We looked at something similar to this at one point last season and indeed, if there was one position of strength on the club it was at the 1.
The Bargs stat above is rough and just reinforces the issues at the 5. Tough thing is, I don’t think Toronto can address those issues via the draft, and so it’s likely via free agency that the team will need to look for help.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
The Question In My Mind Which Needs to Be Answered Is
Can Amir and Ed play successfully together as starters.
They are both tall enough, athletic enough.and talented enough.
The question in my mind is: Can they get strong enough?
Only time will tell.
Personally I would say no. I don’t think at 6-9 they are tall enough. They also don’t have the physical strength necessary to man the 5 position and based on their body type, I don’t think they will ever have the necessary size. Unless you want to play one of them out of position…
I Guess You Missed My Matchup Stats Post
Too bad for you.
What is the point you are trying to make?
I’m at a loss….
Nice work Buddah
“How can a guy score 20+ PPG and be outplayed 3 out of every 4 games he plays 25 or more minutes in?”
Fantastic question… It must have been very difficult to achieve.
This is definitly the guy i would like us to find a way to get.
This guy is still young and looks great. Get him some good coaching keep him together and i think this guy could be a very good NBA player.
I said it on the previous thread, but I really don’t understand why so many Raptor fans are in love with this guy. None of his strengths are those of a PG. In fact, all his strengths would be great if he were a SG, but that’s not what he’d be drafted for and he’s too short to play one.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Guard points
If you look at the two finalist in the NBA championship this year, you have Mike Bibby, Mario Chalmers verses 38 year old Jason Kid and 6foot JJ Berera. How important is the point guard position anyway? Mike Jordon had Ron Harper and Larry Bird had Denis Johnson – good players but not superstars by any means. So how does our present duo of Calderon and Bayless stack up. Not that far off are they?
The Heat have LeBron James, who might as well be a PG and is one of the best passers in the game, and Dwayne Wade, who isn’t far behind. If the Raptors get a transcendent player who passes like Bird, LeBron or Jordan, then they don’t need a really good PG. Until that happens, they need to get the best player as possible at every position.
And Jason Kidd, while 38, is still one of the best passing PGs in the game and makes every single one of his teammates better.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
we have the possibility of keeping one Julian 'Assange' Wright
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
The Simple Fact Is The Raptors Two Strongest Positions Are PF and PG
I am not saying that the Raptors don’t need improvement improvement at the PF and PG. Clearly they do.
However they need a lot more improvement and upgrade at the Center, SF and SG positions. For me the jury is still out on whether DeRozan can every guard anyone. He has a long way to go. I think that within one to two more seasons we will know but I still hold out hope.
As far as Bargnani goes there is no hope. He is what he is. A decent sixth man.
At SF it is hard to tell if Kleiza, who was injured all of last season, starting with pre-season camp or Johnson who has very little NBA experience could ever become solid starters at at the #3.
Valanciunas has some good upside but whether he will ever be a good starter in the NBA is still a big question mark in my mind. Vesely also has some really good upside but again like Valanciunas there are some big questions in my mind whether he will ever become a solid NBA starter.
Bottom line for me is that the Raptors need to try and find a way to draft Kanter or Williams. Anyone other than those two would not fill one of the big needs that the Raptors have starting in 2011-12
Very much agree
I would expect the group that frequent this site would be much more interested in a defensive player at the center or SF than hoping that colangelo would pick Knight. The PGs the Raps have now are certainly adequate to get them to the second round of the playoffs at least. So I would expect that Singleton or Kantor would be the unanimous choice for the crowd here since its been a full year of complaining about the lack of defense on the team.
As a side note: Knight and Walker (especially Walker) have an abundance of leadership qualities. It depends how much you value leadership as that is not something you can coach.
It Is My Opinion That Amir Will Take Over The Rapors Leadership Role
He is already shown on the court that he plays as hard as anyone in the league except for maybe a dozen or so players at the most.
He just needs to get more vocal on the court and in the locker room and he recognizes that.
He will also be in his seventh NBA season next season, so I don’t think that the Raptors need leadership, What they need is more talent and more court time experience.
We should pull a 'break and enter' this draft where we 'smash and grab' Kanter and Singleton - or do the full-blown 'armed robbery' of Kawhi Leonard/Singleton and Biyombo
Let dem draft police sort thru the broken glass and fingerprint dust after we done holdin up tha’joint.
Lut’an’fyah…
COz dem balla-heds put a pancake on me bunny… on me bunny bunny…
pancake on me bunny bunny…
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
For Those Of You Who Attacked My Pro Ferdette and Anti K. Walker Comments
Walker Pulls Out Of Workout Against Fredette
Walker Pulls Out Of Workout Against Fredette
Jun 06, 2011 10:08 AM EDT
The Kings’ highly anticipated pre-draft workout that was to feature both Connecticut’s Kemba Walker and BYU’s Jimmer Fredette will not happen this week.
Walker, who led UConn to the national championship last season, will not join Fredette for the workout, which is not expected to be held before Thursday.
No reason was given for Walker’s decision not to participate,
but the Kings expect to have the point guard in for a workout before the June 23 draft.
I give Walker’s agent two thumbs up for knowing what would happen when Jimmer faces Kemba and shreds him. LOL
Also, Alec Burks and Marshon Brooks both pulled out of workouts due to injury...
Burks separated shoulder in a workout and Brooks Ankle sprain I think?
"the Truth"
Kemba Walker, who canceled a workout with the Kings on Thursday, did so because of his schedule, and not a match up with Jimmer Fredette.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1822/kemba-walker
elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly
You Missed The Whole Point Of My Post
Anyway what does scheduling conflict mean?
It means that his agent scheduled something else because he didn’t want Kemba to get b**ch slapped by Jimmer. LOL
Kanter Only Working Out for Teams With The Top 5 Picks
Although he has expressed a desire to play in Washington, Enes Kanter appears to be more interested in going high in the draft. Kanter does not have a workout scheduled for the Wizards, who hold the sixth pick in the NBA draft, but the team remains hopeful that something could come together in the next few weeks – either in Chicago, where Kanter is training at Attack Athletics, or possibly in Washington.
Kanter, the 6-foot-11 Turkish center who missed all of last season at Kentucky because of NCAA eligibility violations, completed his first individual workout with Utah last Friday.
He is scheduled to work out for Toronto in Chicago on Monday (today)
and will head to Cleveland on Tuesday. He has an individual workout set for Minnesota next week. Kanter spoke with the Wizards three weeks ago and worked out with other draft prospects for NBA executives and scouts at the NBA combine in Chicago. But scheduling a workout with Kanter might require a little creativity.
"Listen, we like Washington. I haven’t heard anything from them,"
said Kanter’s agent, Max Ergul. "I guess they know he’s not going to be there at six.
So, until they do something about it, it seems like they are not going to give me a call for workout."
We could talk abt Knight all day
but he won’t be on the board by the time we pick anyway :). Seriously tho, Knight to me is not NBA ready but does have the tools to become a good NBA player eventually. He seems like a project PG to me tho because everything including his handles, defence, decision making and passing needs a lot of improvement. The one thing he does well based on watching him in college is score but if we’re bring him in to be our pg of the future we’ll need to be patient because watching him in college I didn’t see a natural pg on the floor. They said the same thing abt Westbrook and Rose tho so you never know.
A Bunch Of Mock Drafts Have Valanciunas Going In The Top Four
So if that is the case then you have
Williams
Irving
Valanciunas gone by the time he Raptors daft.
So what I have seen and it is possible.
1. Cavs – Irving
2. T-Wolves – Williams
3. Jazz – Knight – (They read Raptors HQ today. LOL)
4. Cavs – Valanciunas
So that leaves Kanter for the Raptors. Hence the reason that he worked out for them today. If he is not working out beyond five his agent must have gotten enough soft guarantees that he would be taken somewhere in top five including the Raptors. Why else would he work out for them and not the Wiz at #6.
Will Kanter be there at #5? I think its possible. Will BC draft him at #5 if Kanter is available? I believe so.
I don't think there's any way the Cavs pass on Kanter...
That leaves us with Valanciunas…
Think about it from the Cavs perspective. They can pair Kanter alongside Varajao and have an absolute tornado of a front court, right now, not waiting for Valanciunas to fill out and develop…
So they have Irving running the point and Varajao and Kanter locking down the lane, sounds like a good step in the right direction to putting up a competitive team again. Valanciunas gives them question marks, and Cleveland can’t afford question marks… They are going to want to make a splash quickly, and prove to Irving that they are serious about making a real team for him to run…
"the Truth"
A Number of Mock Drafts Listed In The NBA Consensus
have Valanciunas going before #5 .
However, you could be correct.
We shall see.
Draft Express
I can’t understand why these guys have the Raptors passing over Kanter to select Kemba Walker at #5.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/
That doesn’t make any sense to me considering PG is Toronto’s “best” position at the moment, while C is where the Raptors need the most help. Next year’s draft isn’t particularly overloaded with centres, so why pass a good one over if he falls in your lap? DX what is your reasoning on this?
While I agree with most of your post and the overall sentiment, I somewhat disagree with your "PG is Toronto’s “best” position" as an argument not to take a PG. While the PG spot was arguably a position of strength for the Raptors last season, this is for a team that won 22 games. Jose isn’t getting any younger and is arguably not a starting quality PG on a contending or successful team. I think you take the best player available, even if it is a PG. Now, having said that, IMO the Raptors should not be selecting Kemba Walker with the 5th pick in the draft.
It would be different if DX had the Raptors selecting Knight in favour of Kanter. At least in Knight’s case you could argue that he has the potential to be an elite player at his position(which is something the Raptors don’t have at any position).
Now Knight reaching his potential may not happen, but at least it would be a legitimate reason to pass over Kanter. In Walker’s case, he might surprise us, but my feeling is that his ceiling is as a middle-of-the-road PG in the NBA.
no way the raptors pass on Kanter
I’m not a huge fan but he is a potential legit C and that can’t be ignored.
- Irving
- Williams
- Knight
- Kanter
- Valanciunas…
I still say that’s what we’re looking at on draft day…
"the Truth"
Unless we trade up, otherwise I'd prefer to trade down and get Singleton and someone else...
"the Truth"
singleton is the player I’d be most pleased with coming out of the draft, but I can’t imagine the raptors hearing the end of it if singleton doesn’t exceed expectations and one of the 3419 mystery boxes that could go at number 5 ends up panning out
really want us to trade down (and include bargnani)
elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly
Very much in agreement (with the trade down idea). I just don’t see the guys being available at 5, who are likely to be the best choices in the draft.
Ofcourse saying the Raps should trade down and them being able to do so are two different things.
But if the Raps could trade down, and include Bargnani… I’d buy Mas a bottle of whiskey (and then drink it in his honour)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 6, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of The Most Mock Drafts at NBA Concensus
do have Kanter being drafted by the Cavs.
I do think the will be gone by the 5th pick but you never know.
Your order could very well be correct.
Actually Valanciunas Was My Choice For The Raptors Pick
way back when.
At this point I have mixed feelings about the Raptors drafting him.
To me the biggest unknown is how effective his game will be against the bigger and stronger NBA players as well as the still to my knowledge unresolved issue of his buyout.
Raptors To Draft Williams via Trade With T-Wolves?
Jason in GA: Just a thought but wouldn’t Derozan and the five for Flynn and the two help both teams? Gives Toronto some front court star power and Minnesota a legit 2, thoughts?
Bill Ingram (HoopsWorld): It really would . . .I know the Wolves are exploring a lot of options for trading the #2, and DeRozan is one of the better young shooting guards in the league. He and Rubio could potentially be good for years to come. Derrick Williams would clearly help the Raptors, as well. I’ve been told by the Wolves that Toronto is the frontrunner for the #2 so far, but there’s lots of time for someone else to make an offer Kahn can’t refuse.
Ya this rumour was being reported on Raptors Republic as well. However, I’m not sure how trading DeRozan for Williams straight up essentially makes sense for the Raptors. I’m not sure Williams is projected to be much better than what DeRozan is projected to be…
… and someone found a way to make the Jose/5 for Flynn/2 deal possibly worse.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 6, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I Already Proposed The Trade That BC Should Make
Raptors trade #5 and Calderon
for #2, Flynn, MIlicic and Hayward.
It works money wise and the T-Wolves get Calderon to mentor Rubio.
The T-Wolves then draft Kanter or Valanciunas at #5 to fill the spot left by trading Milicic
Milicic gives the Raptors a big who can defend the paint if nothing else along with Williams and Flynn to back up Bayless. Hayward is a throw away.
The only reason the T-Wolves might not make this trade is that they still have Ridnour so they don’t really need three PGs.
The thought of Bargnani and Millicic on the same team is making my head spin....
Buddah are you secretly trying to put together a Euro-bust team? LOL
Darko Is A Decent Backup Center
Bargnani still needs to be traded.
How about Bargs spending an entire year in the D-League? This way we clear out his locker, the air, and see if he 'gets it' after a year....
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
wtf
this trade idea is dumb! derozan? the player were trying to focus our attention and our only closest promising player for a unknown commodity/tweener in williams. i know i have been on the side looking to trade for flynn but thats only cause i feel minny is desperate to trade him and to only get calderon. but if not, then theres no point in looking to trade for the number 2, next draft will provide better sf’s
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