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NBA Free-Agency 2011 - A Look at the Toronto Raptors' Potential Budget

Nene on the Raps next year?  Based on how much money Toronto will have to spend, it's extremely doubtful.

While it may all be a moot point if the lock-out comes into effect, the HQ gives their best stab at Toronto's financial picture.

Star-divide

One last kick at the can.

That's essentially what the NBA has tomorrow to avoid a work stoppage situation, one that would commence at 12:01 AM Friday, July 1st.

Will the meeting make a difference?

It sounds extremely doubtful at this point, and as an article in ESPN.com pointed out this AM, if both sides were that serious about reaching a resolution, a meeting today probably would have taken place as well.

No, the Thursday meeting seems a bit more like a "well, let's just make it look like we gave it one last shot" situation.

So now what?

Well, as mentioned yesterday, clubs will have to proceed for the time being under a "business as usual" facade, essentially until that 12:01 Friday, mark.

And for us at the HQ, we're taking the same approach.

That means then taking a good look at the free agent options that the Toronto Raptors would normally be pursuing during the league's annual free-agency bonanza.

However when I was penning my free agency piece this morning, regarding center options for the Dinos, I realized it would be fruitless to simply toss around player names when we have no idea how much money the Raptors will have available to spend.

With that in mind, and before we get into said options, I figured it would be a good idea to look at Toronto's current financial obligations for the 2011-12 season, and with some help from Sham Sports, I put together the following spreadsheet regarding Toronto's 2011-12 commitments.

As of now, the team has $48,220,531 in firm commitments, assuming that Sonny Weems is back next year at qualifying offer amount of $1,091,100.

However, the team also has about $31M in "cap holds," or, the amount of money that is charged to the Raptors' salary cap number for players who aren't technically under contract.

Without getting into too much of the fine print here, cap holds exist to ensure that a team doesn't allow its entire roster to become free agents, sign other team's top free-agent options, then re-sign their own free-agents using their "Bird Rights," which would allow said team to pay above and beyond the salary cap.

You can read more on this topic at Larry Coon's Salary Cap FAQ page, but the important thing to know is that these holds disappear when a) these players sign again with Toronto, or with a new team entirely, b) these players retire, or c) the Raptors' renounce these players' rights.

The weird thing is that based on the breakdown at Sham Sports, the Raptors have cap holds for not only folks like Joey Dorsey, Julian Wright and Reggie Evans, all of whom Toronto will need to make a decision on regarding their futures with the club, but also Pape Sow, Rasho Nesterovic and Uros Slokar!

Huh?

I'm no capologist so I'm not going to try and get into the nuances of why these guys are still hanging around, but suffice to say that I'm guessing the Raps to clear as much cap space as possible, will renounce their rights, along with those of Reggie Evans, Julian Wright, Alexis Ajinca and Joey Dorsey.

Based on my calculations, this would only leave a cap hold of about $3M for first-round pick Jonas Valanciunas, bringing Toronto's total salary obligations to just over $51M.

So what does that leave Toronto for spending loot?

To get an idea of this, I thought we'd look at a few scenarios.

Scenario 1 - 2011-12 Salary Cap Remains Unchanged from Last Year:

Under the first, we consider last year's salary cap of $58M, and luxury tax threshold of $70.31M.

This would give the Raptors about $7M to use before hitting the cap, and the opportunity to re-sign any of their own free-agents, or add a player using the mid-level exception, up to an excess of almost $20M, before they would be stuck paying the dollar-for-dollar luxury tax.

The bottom line then is that the Raps would have about $7M next year to use to woo a top free agent, and then in the following year, with up to $11M less in commitments, an even bigger chunk of change to use.

Under this scenario though, that's not a lot.

Considering that some of the top free agent options like Tyson Chandler and Nene made over $11M each last season, that's not going to cut it.

In fact that $7M is barely more than last year's mid-level exception amount of $5.765M!

This is a huge point because at face value, it probably means that Toronto won't be able to go after guys like Chandler, unless they back-load the terms of the contracts in a major way.

Scenario 2 - 2011-12 Salary Cap Increases Slightly as per NBA History:

Considering that the lock-out that is looming revolves around the owners looking to cut player salaries, this scenario looks extremely doubtful.

But for the sake of argument, if the 2011-12 salary cap increased 4 per cent (the average increase over the last decade), this would make for a base cap of $60.32M approximately.

This would give the Raps another couple of million to work with, but again, we're still not talking about max salary money that the team could throw around.

Scenario 3 - 2011-12 Flex Cap of $62M:

The latest proposal by the NBA's owners to the NBA Player's association includes a $62M "flex cap."

Under this scenario, the Raps would have even more money to spend, upwards of $11M or so to use, and this would then make them a much bigger player in the free agent market.

But this scenario comes with a caveat.

The mid-level exception would be gone.

The owners "flex cap" proposal would rid the league of the "luxury tax threshold," ostensibly establishing a hard cap and therefore limiting how much teams could spend.  Once you reached a total salary amount of $62M for your team, that would be it, and so for the Raptors, they'd then have to choose between throwing that entire $11M at one player, or divvying things up to address numerous needs.

Scenario 4 - Salary Cap Drops Below 2010-11 Levels:

Uh oh.

While this hasn't been put on the table per se, the NBA Player's Association has proposed a $500M pay cut over the next five years, and that could come in the form of some sort of reduction in the salary cap.

If that's the case, the Raps would have even less to throw around than in the first scenario, and years of spending on the likes of Jason Kapono, Hedo Turkoglu, Jose Calderon and Linus Kleiza will have come home to roost.

Bottom Line:

Maybe we don't know what the new CBA will entail in terms of a salary cap.

But what we do know is that any way you slice it, the Raptors likely won't have a ton of money to use for free-agent purposes.

That's not to say that certain players are completely out of the question.  We've seen Toronto get pretty creative with their finances in the past, and with so much uncertainty for NBA players right now, perhaps they'll opt for some form of long-term security over big immediate paydays.

But I'm not holding my breath for a Nene any time soon, and our free agent scouting reports over the next few days will be indicating as much.

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This is a huge point because at face value, it probably means that Toronto won’t be able to go after guys like Chandler, unless they back-load the terms of the contracts in a major way.

In the current CBA, backloading is very limited – maximum raises offered by a team that doesn’t own a player’s Bird rights is 8% per year, non-compounding. So, for example, the maximum a contract could increase if it started at 7 million is as follows:
7M, 7.56M, 8.12M, 8.68M, 9.24M = 40.6M over 5 years, or 8.12 M per year. Probably not enough for one of those big FA’s. Even through a S+T that value only goes up to 53.025M over 6 years, or 8.8375M per year. Of course with a S+T, we may be able to send some contracts back, effectively increasing the starting salary we could offer. But with UFA’s, S+T’s are rare if the player isn’t trying for a max contract.

The owners “flex cap” proposal would rid the league of the “luxury tax threshold,” ostensibly establishing a hard cap and therefore limiting how much teams could spend. Once you reached a total salary amount of $62M for your team, that would be it, and so for the Raptors, they’d then have to choose between throwing that entire $11M at one player, or divvying things up to address numerous needs.

Slight clarification here: The 62 million cap would indeed limit outside spending absolutely. However, teams would still be able to go over the cap, up to the hard cap above it (probably 8 to 10 million dollars more) to sign or extend their own players or free agents. The use of things like cap holds is very unclear, since the entire scenario is not defined yet, so whether the entire 11 million could be thrown at a free agent, then the excess space perhaps used to resign players like Weems, Wright or Evans, I don’t know – very murky all in all.

Either way, great article! Very well put together and straightforward way of explaining a nebulous situation. I’m afraid it will be a long while before we see any resolution to our questions here, since the owners appear to be removing their last offer from the table, and want to play hardball for a 45M cap once the lockout starts.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 1:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Great stuff dhack, thanks for the notes.

So yes, even WITH a back-loaded situation, there’s not a lot a team can do under the present CBA. This makes things even tougher then for the Raps.

And glad you pointed out the murkiness…took a long to pen this simply because there is really so many unknown points right now.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 29, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sign and trade scenarios seem to me to be the only viable options to acquire the type of talent that commands those dollars...

ie. Denver signs Nene to $12 million / year for 4 years, trades him to us for Jose and TPE…

Such a scenario would then only use up $3 million of our cap space? Is that right?

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 29, 2011 1:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Yep.

Note to all: the TPE Mikthaniel references here is not the Bosh TPE, but a new TPE generated by the difference in salary for the Nuggets. Any trade using cap space would require the team to renounce its cap holds, including the Bosh TPE. Note that the Bosh TPE is likely bigger than any cap space the Raptors are likely to have, but cannot be combined with a player in a trade like this one, so there are pros and cons to both cases.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Based on my calculations, this would only leave a cap hold of about $3M for first-round pick Jonas Valanciunas, bringing Toronto’s total salary obligations to just over $51M.

One more thing (and I don’t mean to nitpick, this really is a great article) but the Raptors actually have a couple more cap holds that cannot be renounced that you seem to have missed. Assuming Weems is signed to that QO, the Raps still need to fill 2 roster spots, meaning another two minimum contract cap holds are applied. When a FA is signed, one of these disappears, so effectively, the Raps have another half million less to offer, so in the case of keeping last year’s cap, we have closer to 6.5 million to offer free agents as a starting salary.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 1:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Valanciunas Does Not Count Toward The Raptors Cap Hold For 2012

Based on my calculations, this would only leave a cap hold of about $3M for first-round pick Jonas Valanciunas, bringing Toronto’s total salary obligations to just over $51M.

Why?

He has not been signed by the Raptors ever, so his rookie salary is not included in the Cap Hold number until he signs which won’t be until after the 2012-13 season, whenever that begins

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

As soon as a player is drafted in the 1st round, their first year rookie scale salary (100%) counts as a cap hold until they are signed, at which time their first year salary (typically 120% scale) counts instead.

Valanciunas is an interesting case, as he has signed a contract overseas, and as such is exempt from the Raptors’ salary cap, starting either on the date he signs the contract, or on the first day of the season after he is drafted, whichever is later. As such, his cap hold will be on the cap this summer, until the next season starts, whenever that is. Also interesting is that his cap hold gets reapplied after his overseas season ends (likely mid-May) so if BC wants to use the cap space freed up (2.9M) during the year, he has from the start of the season to the trade deadline, and the first couple weeks of the playoffs (assuming the Raps don’t make it).

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

dhackett’s got it right.

Essentially as of the start of the season (let’s assume there is a season so Hallowe’enish time frame) the cap hold for Val comes off but is re-applied at the end of his season in Europe.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 29, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

First Day Of The Season

It sounds like you are saying first day that games begin or do you mean when camp opens?

If there is an extended lockout to where camps open immediately after the CBA is signed then I imagine the period for signing Free agents will begin when camps open or maybe a couple of days before.

So when will the period for signing Free Agents end when the season begins or afterward?

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The day of the first regular season game, to answer your first question.

As for the other question, there really isn’t an end date for free agency – teams can continue to sign free agents into the season, even now. In fact, free agent signings can happen long after the trade deadline passes.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

So If There Is A Shortened Pre-Season Like There Was With The Previous Lockout

There still could be some decent Free Agents available to the Raptors when the season begins and JV rookie cap hold gets removed. Especially if the training camps open almost immediately after the lockout ends.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess so, if they do the same thing as in 98-99. They came to an agreement on Jan 18th, 1999. The pre-season was shortened to 2 games instead of 8. The season proper started on Feb 5, 1999. So at most there are 2 weeks and 3 days between the agreement and the start of the regular season. Meaning the Free Agency period lasted that long before Valanciunas’ cap hold would have come off the books on Feb 5th, in an assumed equivalent situation.

It really depends what happens to the rules about free agency. For example, if RFA’s still have to wait a week to see if their team keeps them, that could slow the process down. However, it should be noted that the Raptors would need to meet the minimum roster requirements (min salary, 13 players) by opening night.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for jumping in dhackett – it could get really interesting and yep, a lot of this really depends on how the new CBA shakes out, and WHEN it does.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 29, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Their Is Only A Two To Three Week Free Agency Period

before the season starts the league and Players Association might agree to some roster waivers like on the 13 player minimum for the first month of the season so teams are not stuck rushing free agency signings to meet the 13 player requirement.

The 10 day rule could also remain under the new CBA which theoretically would allow teams to bring a D-League level player into camp and sign them to a 10 day deal. After 10 days they drop that player and sign a FA who they arrived at a verbal agreement with during those 10 days.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great Article... Looks like hell up ahead!

also:

has no one mentioned ‘Money Weem$’ since he was extended his offer?

'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'

by Jenge on Jun 29, 2011 2:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Wrote a little blurb on this the other day, but we’ve yet to get into what his return means roster-wise etc.

We will be doing this though for sure at some point.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 29, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

… or even if he will return. A QO does not a signing make…

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

If fact it is my understanding that at least under the current CBA a QO can be withdrawn. I don’t know if there is a time limit on withdrawing a QO or not.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is not – it can be withdrawn right up to the moment the player signs an offer sheet (thus forcing the team to decide whether it wants to match).

And again, of course, who knows what a new CBA will bring.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

So There Is A Time Limit

The limit is the time at which a player signs the offer sheet.

Not a calendar based time limit but an event driven time limit.

I know, splitting hairs LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

dhackett

.
I have a whole new respect for you …… not that I didn’t respect your opinion before. lol
.

by RapthoseLeafs on Jun 29, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

DAVID STERN IS ILLUMINATI!!!

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Jun 29, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Short Video: Behind The Bulls Drafting Process - Sounds Similar To BCs

I imagine the same thinking applies to whom they might sign as a Free Agent or trade for. Sounds similar to BC’s philosophy as we know that he has pretty much said the same things regarding his approach/attitude on this subject.

I am paraphrasing

“We look for assets that are good investments”

“We consider these assets like companies that you would want to include an investment portfolio”

http://www.nba.com/bulls/bullstv/specialaccess.html

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 2:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Chad Ford Thinks The Raptors Will The Worst Team In The NBA Next Season

unless BC makes some significant player trades or signings.

Daoud (Toronto)

Worst team in the NBA next season: Toronto or Charlotte?

Chad Ford
  (1:20 PM)

I’d put the Raptors at the top of the list. Minnesota next. Charlotte, Cleveland and Sacramento in the next group … that is if none of them make significant changes via trade or free agency.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/39137

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 2:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Hard to argue…I think Sacto’s the only team that can give them a run…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 29, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha.

I’m pretty skeptical about him helping the club, but hey, I was skeptical that Curry would be as good as he is.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 29, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I’m still betting on Cousins eventually choking Jimmer out when he doesn’t pass him the ball.

Still Tyreke Evans is a special player, and Demarcus Cousins can be as well, as long as they grow up, and Thornton will be a 20 and 5 guy as well, future looks good for them, they just have to mature a little bit.

by KidGre on Jun 29, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll say one thing, that team is going to be ENTERTAINING to watch.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 29, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Harrison Barnes or Anthony Davis. They couldn’t have picked a better year to be last.

by KidGre on Jun 29, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I know, but then theres also McAdoo, Miller, Jones, and Sullinger, all guys that would be either ahead or right behind Williams in this draft.

by KidGre on Jun 29, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget Myck Kabongo!!

by PellsBells on Jun 30, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Remember, they have a 75% chance of picking 2, 3, or 4, and a 0% chance of picking 5th or worse.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly, so, IF we finished dead last, and we have a deadlock for 4 top choices... we can't end up disappointed...

Unless we get Colangelo’d into trading away our pick for Hedo…

But we’re the Raptors, we’ll find a way to be disappointed…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 29, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’d end up with the 4th pick, and be disappointed by a waste of a tanking season. It’s what we do.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Solid point.

That being said, a top 5 pick in next year’s draft promises to be a lot more impactful than a top 5 pick in this past year’s. So even if the Raps don’t get a top 1 or 2 pick…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 29, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Am Not So Sure About That

The upside on Irving, Kanter, JV and Williams is pretty high. I would think that some other player would rise during the season resulting in the top five player in this year’s draft, not the top five chosen but eventual top five, being better than next season’s top five players..

Next year’s draft may be deeper with regard to impact players but I am not convinced it will be better comparing the top five players resulting from each respective draft.

Only time will tell.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s possible that if Irving, Kanter or JV were in the 2012 draft, they may not have cracked top 5!

by MAS11 on Jun 29, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Want Adonis Thomas

Front Court of Amir, JV and Adonis Thomas, the ankle breaking rim biter, at SF.

BC, make it so.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

there is no question

in my mind that Charlotte will be the worst team in the league. None. After that the Raps have a fighting chance.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 29, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 on Raptors not being the worst next year

Charlotte has been content to compete for the 8th playoff spot in the East for a long time. Now that they have set their mind to rebuilding, I can see them racking up the losses, maybe make up for lost time in a strong draft year.

The Ledger at small forward
- Gerald Wallace (at the deadline)
- Stephen Jackson (at the draft)
+ Corey Maggette (at the draft)

Project over a full season, where they will be trying to work not one , but two rookies in the rotation.If they aren’t the worst, they will be in competition for worst right down to the wire. I think Cleveland is on a faster track to get themselves out of historic loss territory, and has a much stronger frontcourt with Varejao, Hickson, and now Tristan Thompson. Minnesota…at some point the talent on that team has to start winning in spite of Kahn, right? Detroit is my dark horse, for the top 6 lottery. Anxious to get Rip out of town, and I can’t see Tayshaun or TMAC returning to the team. Similar to Charlotte, I think they are next to start focusing more on draft positioning.

by Yardly on Jun 29, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Any team with Maggette will always be in the running for the worst record. That guy somehow spreads inefficiency across the entire team.

PLUS they have 2 tiny guards (Kemba Walker and DJ Augustin) that may be competing for top scorer on the team… that will also lead to a pretty low FG% and low assist totals for their PGs.

by B.C. on Jun 29, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

detroit

thats another team I expect to see bit the bullet this year.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 30, 2011 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

FA Q

Any idea what they’d have to pay DeAndre Jordan?

by benjibopper on Jun 29, 2011 3:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Based on the current salary cap? $8-10 million per year seems about right.

Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 29, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clippers Are Trying To Move Kaman not DeAndre

I think that he stays with the Clippers. VDN likes his defense a lot including DJ’s upside on both offense and defense. DJ is also very good friends with Blake.

With JV coming I see no reason to invest in another Big at this time.

Amir, JV, and Ed should be very good as a Big man rotation. Then again if Casey and Amir can save Bargnani from being traded Ed could be become the odd man out.

Then again Amir could be traded rather than Davis.

It will be interesting going forward to see what happens there. However, even if Ed wins a starting job from Amir I still see Ed bailing the first chance he gets.

I just don’t see him as a T-Dot type of guy.

JMO

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

An opinion you refuse to elaborate on... so quit bringing it up...

“Scottie Pippen is my favourite basketball player of all time! … but I am not going to answer you if you ask me why… but I am going to repeat it in every thread for the next week or so… but don’t ask me about it…”

Seems rational right?

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 29, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Did Elaborate

It is in my opinion a demographics thingy.

Sorry, if you don’t understand that even though we aren’t talking here about anything as hard to decipher and understand as for example Nietzsche or Descartes. LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Did Elaborate

If you can’t understand the statement

“I think Ed will leave the first chance he gets because of demographics” then I suggest you ask someone. It is not very difficult to understand.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

What Does Demographics Mean?

Studies of a population based on factors such as age, race, sex, economic status, level of education, income level and employment, among others.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/demographics.asp

People tend to want to work in areas, cities that they are most comfortable in. Demographics is a major determinant in a person deciding where they want/prefer to live and work.

Based upon Ed’s background and what I have seen of his personality I don’t believe that he is a T-Dot type of person due to the demographics of T-Dot.

Clear enough. I think you should be able to take it from there.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

WHY!?

Let me try to ask you again in a different way as you seem to be trying to avoid answering: Buddah, what about Toronto’s demographics specifically will motivate Ed Davis to sign else where?

by MAS11 on Jun 29, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently, the definition of demographics is supposed to be good enough...

Well, from a demographic standpoint, both Ed and Amir:

are male
are black
are under 30 years old
are professional athletes
are employed in the NBA
wear larger than size 12 shoes
are taller than 6’
speak fluent English…

So I guess without further ELABORATION into what specific parameters Buddha is using for his comparison, the two are IDENTICAL people and thus neither is more inclined to remain in Toronto than the other…

Furthermore, I retort to your “demographics” as an answer with “inertia”…

Look it up and I’m sure the definition will completely clarify how I am applying the term…

Or maybe I won’t be a jackass and I’ll actually tell you…

Since a body at rest tends to stay at rest, it is entirely feasible that Ed Davis, being a current Raptor, is likely to remain a Raptor rather than leave…

By the same definition however one could argue that his career is developing, and therefore in motion, and so he is obviously destined to continue this movement onto another team…

Hmmm… maybe just knowing the definition of a word DOESN’T tell you how the person using it is implying it’s affect…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 29, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

narc!

'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'

by Jenge on Jun 30, 2011 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Davis staying

He wants to play, and win. If he gets to do both at Toronto, it is likely he will stay.

This idea that because he’s a black kid from the South that he won’t like Toronto is crap. Toronto is a Global city and as long as we win and he plays, he will want to stay unless someone else offers him much more money, in which case any of our players would leave.

by defensive rap on Jun 29, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Raptors and Free Agency

In my opinion, there is only one need (well technically two, but that’s a factor of injury rather than personnel). We need a solid utility big man, signed to a 4 or 5 year deal, who will be happy to move to the bench after JV settles into the starter’s role…

Bargnani should be moved to acquire an extra high draft pick (on top of the one we are inevitably going to earn on our own, right MAS?)

In next years draft, we should be able to come away with a starter (and future star) SF as well as a prospect PG or a quality backup SG. Whichever of these second two we don’t draft (PG or SG) we acquire through FA next year…

The only other Free Agent we should at all be acquiring is a SF on a short contract that plays until Kleiza is back, at which point Johnson, Kleiza and Signed FA battle for permanent backup position to next year’s stud SF from the draft.

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 29, 2011 4:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Shouldn't we be discussing reality

as opposed to should’ve …. could’ve …. would’ve.

I keep reading all these posts about moving Bargnani, and while that exists in the realm of possibilities, it seems unlikely from the direction this club is taking – no matter how mortified some fans are with this route.
.

I understand your “wishes” are an opinion, and I don’t mean to harp on it specifically, but these Bargnani trade perspectives seem like a bottomless pit. Wouldn’t you prefer to tackle specific issues, that Franchise has spelled out, and dhackett has reaffirmed.
.

by RapthoseLeafs on Jun 29, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you don't think Casey becomes disillusioned with Colangelo's vision and demands he is moved before the next trade deadline, I think you're avoiding reality...

I have heard Colangelo, in multiple interviews, express that acquiring a real Center was a priority…

I believe he will try to play Bargnani at the 4 spot in that rotation…

I also believe that this will fail miserably, and Casey is a no-nonsense enough guy to get Bargs shipped out of town…

Which all fits in quite neatly into what we are all talking about in this thread, which Free Agents we should be targeting now…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 29, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Context

Love the articles guys but you seem to have ignored that other teams will need to shed contracts to stay under any cap – hence in principle there should be more players available. it is not just the Raps that need to wheel and deal.

All of this of course presumes that the CBA will not include a way to allow teams to easily deal with any new cap restrictions.

by Canuck Exile on Jun 29, 2011 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

In almost every suggested case, there is a way for teams to deal with a lower cap – be it an amnesty clause, or scaling players’ salaries globally, as the owners’ new hardball position has it (by a full 33%). However, there should still be opportunities for contract absorption, but it is very dependent on what the cap figure is and the pool will certainly be narrowed by the likely provisions.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, think of the possibility of high contracts that will not be re-upped and that nobody else can afford to take on...

Essentially, in the short term, teams with bad contracts may be really handcuffed, and once the dust settles, owners better quit giving stupid contracts to players who don’t deserve it…

If management would do better research into guys, and spend their money intelligently, we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place…

New restrictions will mean teams with cap space, continue to make smart decisions and don’t acquire other team’s bad contracts. Then the teams with the bad contracts will have to sit and stew in their own mess until their crap contracts finally dry up…

Some small market teams coupled with some really bad contracts could lead to the demise of a franchise or two… and then it’s a firesale to acquire the remaining jobless players…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 29, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Canuck Exile

You raise a good point, one that I left out on purpose today. Really, the common theme from both yesterday and today is that free-agency isn’t the answer.

-The team doesn’t have much money to work with
-Already has the bulk of its roster spots tied up with mediocre (at best) players

So what does that leave?

Trades.

And to your point Canuck Exile, a lot of other teams are going to be in the same boat, so that’s where BC may have to really make his mark.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 29, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Notwithstanding Bargnani

it is way to early to know what the ceiling will be on the core of

Ed
Amir
J. Johnson
Bayless
DeRozan

They are still so young and inexperienced.

Ed, DeMar and Bayless are lottery picks and J. Johnson was selected #16.

IMO Amir could have been a top five pick if he had gone to college and come out for the 2007 draft. No worse then a top #10 pick. See below.

So you have a core of five players who are still very young and inexperienced three of whom were lottery picks, one player who was picked just outside the lottery and another who most assuredly IMO if he had played a year or two in college would have been a lottery pick.

Way too early to tell what the ceiling on this group will become especially if they stay together.

Mo Mchone who coached Amir in the D-League had this among other things to say about him.

"If Amir had gone to Louisville and they would have given him the same opportunity to play there that we’ve given him in the D-League," McHone told me Wednesday, 16 games into Johnson’s second tour of duty this season with his Sioux Falls Skyforce team, the Pistons’ NBA Development League affiliate, "I definitely think he would have to be in the top 10.

"If I were picking, would I pick (Greg) Oden and (Kevin) Durant ahead of him? I probably would. But after that, I can’t imagine who I would take over him, after having coached him. I’m not saying there isn’t somebody else out there, but having coached him, watched him and seeing what his potential is … I know this, if you’re in the top 10 and the last guy you ended up with was Amir Johnson, you’d have to be happy. And if you got him at (No. 56) where Detroit got him, you’ve got to be ecstatic."

Maybe a little hyperbole but I don’t think he is too far off. People conveniently forget or don’t know that Amir received very little coaching in his four year stay with the Pistons. It has only been the last two season that Amir has really gotten any serious NBA level coaching.

http://bit.ly/kFZqMP

I would have taken Amir #5 that season behind

KD
Oden assuming he was never going to be injured like he has been,
Horford
Noah
Amir

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2007.html

People can argue it but that IMO.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trades

In order to make trades (the type that will significantly imprve the team from a 22 win season) you need assets. This team has very few assets. Therefore, teh ONLY way this team can improve over the next few seasons is through the draft, by stockpiling assets and developing talent. They are not going to aquire tier 1 talent through free agency and don’t yet have the assets to do it through trades. So if BC is smart, we’re in for some tough years. Hopefully.

by MAS11 on Jun 29, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair point, the CBA will definatley impact what the team can do and the environment in qhich they will be acting. However, I can’t see the Raps having MORE cap space under the new CBA and they will not have anymore tradeable assets under the new CBA (granted, the expiring Barbosa contract could become slightly more attractive). So that leaves the draft…

by MAS11 on Jun 30, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Buddha, looks like you may be right on one thing...

Jones cares about dollars more than rings…it seems

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 29, 2011 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I Never Said What You Just Posted That I Said

I said he would be a better pickup for the Raptors than Battier because he is a

1. A better three point shooter than Battier
2. Younger than Battier
3. Will probably require less to sign than Battier
4. That Battier or Jones if signed by the Raptors would come off the bench and that what it would take to sign Battier probably would be too expense for the Raptors at this time for a bench player.

I never said anything about Jones valuing money ahead of a ring.

What if signs with Dallas? Maybe he wants both. If he does, I can’t say I can blame him.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Never Questioned Why He Would Leave A Contender For The Raptors

As far as I know you ain’t no member of the LSM so quit makin things up about what people say.

We are done discussing this.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

You obviously don't know how to read, I just spelled it out for you, I ASKED WHY HE WOULD LEAVE A CONTENDER TO BE ON THE RAPTORS, not you...

You were the one that suggested we acquire him as a Free agent…

See how those are two separate things? That isn’t too hard for you to understand is it?

See, then after YOU suggested he be targeted by the Raptors, and I asked why he would leave Miami for the Raptors, McGateway offered that his motivation may be money.

That response, I incorrectly attributed to you from memory, but upon review, corrected by attributing it to McGateway…

Your response was maybe he would leave for money and rings, to a place like Dallas… which is a completely different idea than being signed by the Raptors…

So either:

1. Jones is motivated by money alone (which you claim is not your position), and therefore the Raptors have a chance at signing him (as you suggest) = You’re contradicting yourself

or

2. Jones is motivated by titles alone (which you didn’t comment on, therefore have a chance at not being wrong, because you kept your mouth shut)

or

3. Jones is motivated by money AND titles, only one of which is he likely to find IF he came to Toronto (you suggested this be his motivation and hence he may go to Dallas, which both Geographically AND, for fun, Demographically IS NOT TORONTO) = You’re wrong…

I can see why you wanted to be done talking about this… it sucks having no option but to either be wrong or keep your mouth shut…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 29, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Spears says: Blazers to Tender $8.8 Million QO To Oden

Marc J. Spears: Blazers told Greg Oden’s mgmt earlier this week they will tender 1yr, $8.8 mill qualifying offer 2 make him a restricted FA, sources tell Y! Twitter

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 5:57 PM EDT reply actions  

SAVE THE MONEY FOR NEXT YEAR -

Might as well save the money for next year , spending it on a center is pointless , so we can win 5 more games & lose a couple draft spots , tank this year , get a top 3 pick hopefully , go into the 2012-13 season with our new center VAL our top 3 pic ( barnes etc.) Derozan will be better , then use that money to pick up a allstar pg or what ever position we need ,id rather spent 10 to 15 mllion to pick up a game changer ( allstar talent) then pick up 2 or 3 mediocre players that wont make a difference any way. Let the young players play this year & spend the money when we have a roster full of young talent , we just started with a true rebuild mid way through last year , rebuild take 2-3 even 5 years. Were gonna lose next year any way might as well lose big & let the young players get experience , let alabi play center all year.

Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally

by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Jun 29, 2011 7:33 PM EDT reply actions  

1 Center i wouldnt mind taking a chance on is Oden ,he still is young & would fit in with our young core. If we could get him & a decent price to 3 yr deal team option for the 3rd , hopefully he can stay healthyu & by the time the contract is up ,Val would be ready to start & if oden works out will have to good defensive c. Id just rather have 20 mill to spend then 5 million every year to p/u Kleiza ETC

Build a good young core ,then start picking up veteran’s to compliment them. I just dont want waster our money on medicore players like Kleiza , wish we just let Weems & wright play SF last year.

Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally

by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Jun 29, 2011 7:43 PM EDT reply actions  

It looks like the Blazers are going to extend Oden his QO. Turning down $8.8 million by Oden would be a huge risk.

by Al Bundy is my hero on Jun 29, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Renounce rights...

I can’t see the benefit of retaining the rights to players like Sow, Slokar and especially. Uros and Pape are not NBA players and Rasho is well past his prime and won’t be back in the NBA anywhere. Even though it might not make up a lot of money, I can’t see why you hold on to the rights of these 3 players.

Also, Reggie at $10 mil/year is a steap price tag.

by Al Bundy is my hero on Jun 29, 2011 8:08 PM EDT reply actions  

A player’s rights are typically kept because a team has no intention of getting under the cap. In future years a team with a player’s rights can orchestrate a sign and trade (as seen recently with Delfino). In the meantime, the team can use exceptions such as the MLE and LLE to add talent, and the cap holds don’t count towards luxury tax calculations, so they don’t restrict the team in any financial sense. As soon as a team wants to get under the cap, they renounce their free agents.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 29, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Earl Clark anyone?

Worth audtioning for a role in our club’s future right?

That out the write up and rating the guys at nbadraft.net did for him as a college player.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/earl-clark

Other free agents I like are Rodney Stuckey, I think he offers more than Bayless does and Greg Oden is worth a shot at the right place. It would be like a homecoming for him (he’s from Buffalo) and the change of scenery and lifestyle could get the best out of him. I think we all know his potential as a healthy player is astronomical.

by timboslice85 on Jun 29, 2011 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Some Comments About Davis Found On Another Raptors Blog

I feel Ed Davis will be the one to be traded and not Amir.
From all bigs; Bargs, Amir, Ed and Jonas Davis has the biggest upside, but I remember the dude wasn’t happy abt being drafted by the Raps, I won’t be surprised if we fetch a good trade for him.

+1 and about ed, i temm that to everyone since his draft-night. and for sure is value, and easyness to trade him than barg, is far far away. so trade davis and barg, and bring a 3rd young big men, and a FA center, and we will be full.

im sorry but ed davis sounds kind of liek a tool and doesnt seem like he wants to be here anyways

http://bit.ly/mDj26S

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 10:32 PM EDT reply actions  

For The Record

None of those posts are by me. I don’t post on that website. All my hoops posts are under the name “Buddahfan” regardless of the hoops website.

by Buddahfan on Jun 29, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

By the mere fact all three of these posters struggle with putting basic sentances together, I fail to see how these are relevant at all. What are you getting at here Buddah?

As for Ed not being happy he was selected by TO, the reality is he was not happy being selected 13th, far later than he thought he would go.

by MAS11 on Jun 29, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 on Draft picks that slide having alot on their minds

With any draft pick being picked after your self-imposed cut off for workouts is embarassing. They also get into the mindset they will have a certain range, and when they start to slide they become anxious in the green room as their peers start flying off the shelves.

by Yardly on Jun 30, 2011 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

MAS11 is right

He was never upset about our city, he was just projected to go in the top ten. Probably hoped to go top 7 and all of a sudden he keeps falling and he gets upset.

Ed Davis is a professional Bball player. He likes Basketball and he will be a great asset to the Raptors for years to come. he will be better than Cousins and Favours.

Do not trade him.

by defensive rap on Jun 30, 2011 2:14 AM EDT reply actions  

LOL

I’m struggling to think of something that anoys me more than a fully buttoned up polo shirt!

by MAS11 on Jun 30, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

An Excessively High Collar?
Signor Colangelo, as he’s known at Manifatture all’Orologio, is one of the shirtmaker’s best customers. He buys his custom-cut, French-cuffed duds in batches of 12 or 15, usually a couple of times a year when he’s in town on scouting trips.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/263800

I’m surprised that Feshuk would take a break from the doom and gloom to write about shirts. I guess BC was bulletproof after coming off that Atlantic Division winning season.

by Yardly on Jul 1, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Youth

Bayless, Ed, Amir, JV, Demar, JJ…….we are actually quite young.

Now we just need to be quite good.

by defensive rap on Jun 30, 2011 2:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Ed Davis, Free Agents Options

I wouldn’t trade Ed Davis unless it was for a top 8 pick in the 2112 draft for a specific player that the coaching staff has identified as a guy we really really want. Ed Davis is projected (IMO) to be much better than Amir overall and should start next yr over Bargs and Amir, The advantage Amir has is he loves T.O. and is totally committed while Davis may or may not be quite as committed to staying here long term (nobody really knows).

As far a free agents go. BC probably goes hunting for Tyson Chandler & Nene first but probably ends up with Pryzbilla, Kristic or K Brown in the end.

I would also take a flyer on Terrence Williams who has been an outcast since his misbehaviour in NJ. He’s now on a Houston roster that has no room for him. He has had his problems with focus (showing up late to practices etc) but that kid has something to offer, even if it’s off the bench. I wouldn’t mind seeing him back up DD and JJ at the SG&SF positions next season if Weems doesn’t accept the QO. If he comes in and doesn’t play well enough, then his contract is manageable and can come off our books as early as the end of 2112 if we don’t pick up his option.

by Member29 on Jun 30, 2011 8:30 AM EDT reply actions  

top 8 pick in the 2112 draft for a specific player that the coaching staff has identified as a guy we really really want.

I hear they are high on Rebound-a-tron 5000

by timboslice85 on Jun 30, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

re: Terrance Williams taking fliers on end of bench wings

Houston is stacked with unproven wings and PFs, so I can see them wanting to make a 2 for 1 deal at some point. However, they didn’t give Williams a legit chance to play after acquiring him in December. Since they paid the price of a conditional first round pick in 2012, I can see them wanting to give him every chance to get in the rotation with a new coach.Not sure how they find time for everyone, let alone what happens when they add Marcus Morris to the mix as a SF/PF.

Maybe part of the reason they passed on Kawhi Leonard at 14 was because they think Terrance Williams can do the same job?

by Yardly on Jul 1, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

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