Valanciunas Drafted by the Raptors - Further Thoughts and Reaction
by Adam Francis on Jun 25, 2011 10:40 AM EDT
in NBA Draft
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PrintWhile one take was given yesterday on the selection of Jonas Valanciunas, the HQ polls their usual media crew to get further reaction...
So has the dust settled at all this morning?
Yesterday's post-draft discussion on the Raptors' selection of Jonas Valanciunas nearly crashed the site, but brought out some amazing conversation regarding the choice.
Some loved it, some hated it, some understood it, but felt very uneasy considering past history, and some didn't think it would make a bit of difference - free agency was where the team had to make its biggest moves.
I thought this morning we'd post a poll though to see just where folks now lay on the "love-hate Valanciunas" spectrum, and also add a bit more colour to things.
Immediately after the selection, I reached out to our trusty HQ media panel for their take on the pick, and this is what they said:
Ryan Wolstat - Toronto Sun: Ballsy move, I like it, big-time upside, worry about if he'll be tough enough. Seems like a bigger, potentially much better Amir.
Tim Chisholm - TSN.ca: I like the move for two reasons: 1, it proves that Colangelo isn't scared for his job, because a man scared for his job doesn't make a move that virtually no one in his team's fan base wanted. Colangelo, though, felt that Valanciunas was the best player available and the guy that the team wanted all along, and he didn't forgo him to make a more popular choice, which should be great news to a fan base of a rebuilding team. I'm glad he felt emboldened to make the pick regardless of what the local backlash may be. People are jumping down his throat despite the fact that few have even seen him play a single game. Colangelo feels that once he comes over and plays people will get it and he's willing to take the hits until that happens. I respect that.
2, the other reason I like this move is that the Raptors got a real player with serious upside. Valanciunas, as much as Knight, Kanter, Biyombo and Kemba, is a legit player with serious upside that several teams were chasing until Toronto grabbed him at five. He plays a position of need, he's young and fits the direction the team is going in with long, active bodies. No one in this draft was a sure-thing and so Colangelo threw his lot in with the guy he thought would be the best player a couple of years down the road. Until someone can prove to me today that Knight or Kemba (who you all know I love) is without a doubt going to be a superior player down the road I'm going to say that this pick is as good as any available to Colangelo at five. In fact, I'm going to say it's slightly better than as good as any because it shows how much faith Colangelo has in him that he took him despite all of the inevitable backlash. It doesn't mean he'll capitalize on all of his potential, but he has as good a shot as anyone to do so.
Tom Liston - RaptorsRepublic.com: I'm with both Ryan and Tim. We hosted a party of 30 and I'm quite sure all but 1 (me) shouted "What the &%^#?" I'm quite happy that Colangelo went with the player with the most upside that was available rather than cater to the fan base with a "safe" pick (i.e. American born player). Passion and talent are not defined by geographic borders. Yes, I understand the fan base's concerns, but I don't share them. There was not a sure fire pick in this draft from 3 through 10+. Popular picks don't win championships, the best ones do. When I asked everyone if they've seen Valanciunas play, no one had in any material amount.
The best part of this move? It signals Colangelo is looking for a proper rebuild, rather than short term fixes. I've always believed a 41 win team is the absolute worst spot to be - and this is especially true considering the 2012 draft. A "bonus" of Valanciunas not helping the team this season is good.
Finally, a "true" 5 (if there is such a thing) is the Raptors largest need. We have two reasonable PGs for now, neither a long term solution. If you are truly rebuilding, you want to have the complete set few years out as our young players enter their prime. Thus, the Raptors have another year or two to find their PG - or trade/sign for a vet two years out. Great big men are hard to find and Valanciunas would have been very hard to pass on. If nothing else, I hear had strong interest from many teams and his trade value is reasonably high.
Zack Cooper - Fan590: I can understand the angst. Completely.
A lot of people had their eye (heart) set on one guy or another... whether it be Kawhi Leonard (who had mine since his workout here), Brandon Knight (I initially assumed he'd be gone 5), Bismack Biyombo or Kemba Walker... then you've got GM Bryan Colangelo going and picking a guy no one's ever seen play - youtube doesn't count.
It takes a lot of trust to blindly follow someone, and as we've all seen over the last year (or two), Colangelo has lost the trust of a lot of the Raptors' fanbase.
While venom spewed from nearly every "@" on twitter... it was hard to take a step back and realize what kind of talent the Raptors actually had in Jonas Valanciunas, though (I think it took me 3 or 4 tries to actually spell it correctly) (Is it spelled correctly?).
On the surface... he's a "European big man." The Raptors have that already. How's that working out?However, after sifting through some more youtube (it's all we've got) videos, you can tell that "Big Val" is nothing like Andrea.
Valanaciunas plays inside. He dunks. A lot. With athleticism.
I've started to warm up to the pick - especially after hearing Colangelo say "If he wasn't available at 5, we would have explored moving down."
Clearly the Raptors really like him. The question is whether the fanbase still trusts what the Raptors deem as top talent.
A pretty balanced take on things, further reflected by what many of the panel has since written on the topic.
-Tim Chisholm reinforces that Jonas Valanciunas is NOT Andrea Bargnani.
-Ryan Wolstat notes in fact that with Val, Bargnani will have to adapt, or "pack his bags."
-And Tom Liston looks at the various issues Raptors' fans have with the selection of Valanciunas, and blows them out of the water, mythbuster style.
-Add in a very interesting take by Tim Pickett, comparing the reaction of Raptors' fans post pick, to impatient cookie-loving kids, and there has been some pretty great stuff written in the blogosphere of late regarding Big Val.
Hopefully once fans digest enough of these pieces, everyone calms down a bit and attention is shifted to the real issue on the horizon; the fact that there very well may not be an NBA season next year.
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The irony(?) in some of these statements
Chisholm
“People are jumping down his throat despite the fact that few have even seen him play a single game”
completely fair argument but then how then can one say:
“the Raptors got a real player with serious upside.”?
Cooper
“then you’ve got GM Bryan Colangelo going and picking a guy no one’s ever seen play – youtube doesn’t count.”
and then a couple sentences later:
“However, after sifting through some more youtube (it’s all we’ve got) videos, you can tell that “Big Val” is nothing like Andrea."
(I know they were seperate thoughts but youtube either counts or it doesn’t… and to me it doesn’t)
Tom:
“Popular picks don’t win championships, the best ones do. When I asked everyone if they’ve seen Valanciunas play, no one had in any material amount.”
he has? whats a material amount?
I’m neither for or against JV… but I’m against all the ridiculous, hypocritical based in nothing arguments on both sides of the debate. I completely understand why people think he was the best pick available and why people think he was a terrible selection. But I can say that to date NO ONE on either side of the debate has made a fair argument to sway me one way or the other.
I guess if someone holds a gun to my head and makes me choose I’d select against it (I did in the poll although I can’t say any of the choices truelly fit me) but its mainly because I feel NCAA players are more reliable selections than International players. And more so only because I’m tired of this team taking “chances” when there are more reliable choices available. And even beyond that because I don’t for a second think those running this organization have any clue (or maybe care) how the fan base feels. (Besides that I have serious concerns that he will ever be as strong as I’d like a C to be in the NBA)
PS Cooper – "I’ve started to warm up to the pick – especially after hearing Colangelo say “If he wasn’t available at 5, we would have explored moving down.”
didn’t colangelo also say if Val wasn’t available at 5 he would have selected Biyombo? More than anything I think people need to stop relying on what Colangelo says in any way shape or form.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 25, 2011 11:11 AM EDT reply actions
Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap - Bravo
One of the most sober and even keeled responses I’ve seen so far. I’m in the same boat I suppose if I understand your perspective correctly. I’m not down on the pick, but I’m not super excited about it either and that is strictly because there is such a lack of solid data on Val that I can’t form a solid position. I agree that what is ticking me off is a lot of writers telling me as a reader that I don’t know what I’m talking about, or I’m xenophobic or anti-Euro simply because I can’t make up my mind on this one. They are so firmly confident of Val’s ability that I have to be wrong, yet, they are basing their opinions on the same You Tube mixes and insider reviews that I am, so basically operating with the same lack of hard evidence. I guess what I’m trying to say is; as there is such a lack of data, coupled with the pre-existing statistics that explain that international picks are more risky than non-international selections, I’m going to take the wait and see approach and hope Val turns out to be win for the Raps. However, taking that approach is absolutely reasonable (for the same reasons: lack of reliable data, risks) and does not equate to ignorance, biggotry and xenophobia. Especially when you factor in the Colangelo “Euro-fatigue” factor as discussed on yesterday’s comments.
(Again “Euro-Fatigue” is not being tired of European players generally, but tired of the failed Euros Colangelo specifically has brought to the Raptors).
It's almost as if...
We’ve endured years of mis-management, several coaches, Free Agent follies, mis-placed franchise tags, international experiments and other screw ups, and we are still not allowed to vent frustration at the risk of being labeled anti-Euro, anti BC, anti-patience, anti-Bargs, or anti whatever.
People have levels of tolerance. Mine is wearing thin because of the above and I don’t think there is anything wrong with feeling that way.
Do I like Val – yup. Do i think he’s a good prospect – yup. Do i think he is a project – yup. Do i think we should have gone in a different direction all things being considered – yup. Do i think BC should take heat for the pick – yup.
Point is I am not mad cause I dont think Val is a good prospect. I am mad cause I think we should have gone in a different direction because of the things I’ve listed above (and for other reasons which i have explained in several other posts). And I’m even more annoyed at the fact some writers and bloggers think I have no right to be frustrated or upset or that I need a label.
Well
I live in Europe. Suppose on my Sky TV package, all I get is euro-league ball but no NCAA. As an avid fan, I watch plenty of games and really love this kid making a name for himself in the Lithuanian men’s league. He has all the tools: frame, motor, desire, athleticism and likes playing in the paint. Suppose I don’t really know the American players. I’d figure Kemba and Knight are combo guards, Walker undersized. I wouldn’t know about Kemba’s heart or leadership ability. I’d be nervous if we drafted him because truthfully I don’t know him and we often fear the unknown.
The real truth is that I do don’t watch Euroleague or NCAA. I have nothing invested in either player. I look all over the web and will start researching next year’s draft on DraftExpress next week. I haven’t seen any of these guys play a game, I just read scouting reports and blogs written by people who have. Almost all of them liked Big Val a lot, and for all the right reasons.
And try to take it easy on BC too. The James Johnson move looks like it turned out ok. He has hired a defensive coach and drafted a defensive big to protect the rim. These are all things you would want BC’s replacement to do, so why not just be happy that BC is following a different blueprint.
Walker McKenna
by Robert Archibald on Jun 25, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
In hindsight, the James Johnson deal now looks like a solid move.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 25, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
to be honest...
I wasn’t posting back then, but I thought that everyone thought that, that, was a no brainer!
They were considering JJ at the derozan pick and even though he slipped into the mid teens, that was still considered a strong compared to this one where we surrended the 28th pick.
I think the verdict on the Johnson deal hinged on the strength of the 2011 Draft and whether someone might’ve fell to 28th that could’ve been superior to Johnson (i.e. Kenneth Faried). When a lot of the top prospects pulled out of the Draft, the possibiliy of that happening decreased. And sure enough, there doesn’t look like there was anyone at 28 that would offer significantly more than Johnson might offer in the coming seasons. Chalk up a small win for BC.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 25, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll admit that I was for the move at the time and still am. JJ was (to me at least) a better player than what would have been available with the 28th pick. When you factor in that this became DRAFTPOCALYPSE based on the available talent, it cemented that it was a good decision. Credit where its due…
Well..
…they are comparing his style etc to Garnett so it can only be a good thing for Boston that they have the two together.
I think what you are seeing is..
The fact that many reporters/bloggers really need to learn how to re-read and properly edit their work!
Though what you have said above is correct… I have found that in this day and age one must simply discard the minor contradictions/errors and hope that somehow the big picture at least comes through in what the author was trying to say.
We live in a world of fast-food, quick-fix MS word editing, and where everyone’s opinion is considered to be bigger and more important than the next (thanks internet…lol). But hey, all that stuff is what makes dissecting what others have said/written fun. Heck it is what keeps a site like this one totally awesome and going!
by Oximusprime on Jun 25, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That would be a cool “Point of View” exercise for my students. Taking someone else’s positive position and finding ways to make it fit into a negative viewpoint. Thanks!
by Assistant GM on Jun 25, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Potentially Much Better Amir?
I can understand writing that Jonas is potentially better than Amir, but “much” better. Wolstat continues to show why he is charter member of the, Raptors writers lets call them “Amir Doubter’s Club”
Raptors writers/bloogers and fans have continued to underestimate Amir. I am okay with that as he continues to wipe out their articles and of him on their HDDs and in RAM forcing them to start over from scratch.
I do hope that one day Jonas becomes better than Amir because I know when all is said and done Amir will become not only the Raptors leader on the court but also in the locker room along with becoming one of the top Power Forwards in the NBA.
Ed Davis...
Is almost better than Amir already. Although, I do love the way Amir plays.
I'm with HD here
Davis needs to up his FT shooting and bulk up a bit, but the kid’s got game…and he seems to have more upside than Amir (AJ’s one of my favourites though). At the end of the day, they’re both types of players that we should try to have on this team.
so this should open a worm hole in the fabric of space and time when Valciunas finnally arrives here? Either that, or Bargs will magnetically be pushed to fringes of the globe...
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
Re: Bargnani Will Have To Adapt Or Pack His Bags
If there is a 2011-12 season members of the “Amir Doubters Club” won’t be talking about a Jonas and Bargnani pairing but will be talking about an Amir and Jonas pairing.
You can put that one in the bank.
Or even...
eventually a Jonas + Davis pairing.
N.Y. Slime Article
the fact that there very well may not be an NBA season next year.
Sorry, I don’t read the N.Y. Slime.
Poll
I haven’t read the article yet, but those were some seriously flawed options in your Poll: two were, “I like the pick”, the third was “I hate it”. What about a “the pick was mediocre, and he will never be an impact player, just average.”
by Original Aaron on Jun 25, 2011 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
Yes, need a middle ground for the poll
by MAS11 on Jun 25, 2011 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Solid point – let me see if I can update.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 25, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
No need to update Franchise. I haven’t read a single comment where someone loved the pick and then changed their mind afterward. The majority of the fan base did not like the pick initially, but many have warmed up to it, which makes your third option bang on. The only reason some disagree is that only one option caters to their very biased opinion.
by Assistant GM on Jun 25, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL!
I love it!
Yes, and your opinion is not biased, cause, well, it’s yours! Duh!
Actually hoopdaddy, I’m just always right…there’s a difference.
by Assistant GM on Jun 26, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, I forgot the ;) after my comment.
by Assistant GM on Jun 26, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
reality !!!
Its taken me a few days for all this pro/con of selecting JV to soak in.The way I see it is that all/most Raptor followers were looking forward to some type of short term fix (yes ,granted a so called week draft) but some glimmer of hope,not 3/5 years from now.My biggest concern is that by the time JV becomes a contributing force,DD and ED will more than likely be free agents…and the vicious circles starts all over again.
The sad thing is that I’ve spent the morning looking up next years hopefuls….Davis,Gilchrist,Beal,Mcadoo,Rivers,Teague,Kabongo,Thomas…how f….. up is that !!!!! the season may not even happen and I’ve already written it off to development.
I feel like the followers have been served the Kool Aid & its not even chilled…drink it warm you ball washing sports reporters…sorry,still bitter. Do you think the Charlotte fans are going to come out to see the Raw Congo kid,and Kemba….hell ya…enjoy your emplty seats at the acc.
Failed Euros?
People seem quick to forget that BC’s first rebuild was done on the fly by bringing in Garbajosa, Parker, Nesterovic and keeping little regarded Calderon. None of whom were ‘failed’ by any reasonable judgment.
I’d say the fanbase sentiments are fueled mostly by (largely legitimate) anti-Bargs feelings.
Let’s also keep in mind that BC has had zero luck at the draft, landing his highest picks in two of the weakest drafts I can think of. The best player in Bargs draft year was a PG with a broken jumpshot taken in the late first, and this year featured a player taken third overall who hasn’t even played a game in a full season.
Given our relative advantage scouting Euros (Gerhardini) why not swing at one who fits our needs with lots of upside?
by CamHilton on Jun 25, 2011 12:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
none of those guys
were 19 year old, undersized rookies with no experience either. (hell or even drafted by BC – although Garbo was a rookie)
If anything I think your last sentence may be the biggest problem…. how has Gerhardini shown to be an advantage to this team? In fact I’d argue if Gerhardini wanted him this may finally be a good reason to not like the pick
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 25, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Of your list above, only Garbo is legitimate. Parker is not European, Rasho was an established NBA vet and Calderone was brought over by the Babcock regime. The three most notable Euros BC has been involved with are Turk, Bargs and Kleiza. All massive disappointments.
by MAS11 on Jun 25, 2011 1:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bargnani's not a Massive Disappointment
That’s ridiculous. He hasn’t been the player we thought he’d become, but he’s still a 20/5 player which is above average.
Actually he is
Bill Simmons has a good line about drafting an NBA player in that he wants guys who do at least one thing really well, be it rebounding, defense, whatever. If theyy have at least one skill they can play.
For Bargs that skill is scoring. Unfortunately no other part of his game (save maybe his man on man defense) is even average, and while his scoring is very good for his position he is terribly inefficient at it. By now I would have hoped he had developed at least one other skill (4 more Rebs a game would seriously help), but the truth is that now that what we see is likely about what we are going to get – a gifted offensive player who is inefficient, and yet offers little else.
I don’t blame BC for picking him, the other consesus options (SI called it the Adam Morisson draft!) would have been worse, or (Aldridge) redundant to what we already had (Bosh).
Bargs offered an intriguing package of size and skill, but it’s time to face the facts that he hasn’t panned out, and find a GM who only looks at his offence to take him on in trade.
by CamHilton on Jun 25, 2011 2:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Five rebounds for a seven-footer is not even close to being above average. And the 20 ppg that everyone is hung up on is the direct result of usage. Bargnani is a massive disappointment to everyone except the dwindling number of apologists.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 25, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Wolstat
mentioned those 21 points came with 47% from the floor, is that stat incorrect? (I really do not know, but I thought some people here reported it being much worse (around 43, speaking by heart))
43& would be a meeh number, 47 would be quite good, especially when you are the only scoring threat on a team that otherwise scores mostly on putbacks.
its not that hard to look it up
44.1% career
44.8 % this year
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 25, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
The 47% was on two-point field goals, I believe. That’s not a great number for a seven-foot centre.
The 34.5% from three is below average and makes you wonder why he was putting up an average of 3-4 triples per ball game.
Bargs actually shot 44.8% from the field overall. Again, this is not the number you want from a seven-foot centre who is using a third of your possesions.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 25, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting
So his one saving grace – he’s a good offensive player – is actually false. So, I guess there’s nothing left right?
Hey hey hey
I’m no apologist. But he’s not a HORRIBLE player. Could do worse, but would definitely prefer to have someone better.
The reason
is because Adam Morrison (potential #1 pick that year) didn’t qualify for those stats!
Seriously — Bargnani is not the worst player in the league. Was Iverson the worst player when he was chucking up 30 shots/game at 40% FG%?
The Raptors offense was inefficient, and Bargnani took the most shots in that offense. If Bargnani was in the Utah Jazz offense, he obviously wouldn’t have those stats.
Yes – Aldridge has become a better player, and Roy had a couple of great moments, but neither player is so unflawed that the Bargnani pick looks like a Kwame Brown or Darko Milicic type of selection. The fact that Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, and Shelden Williams were all in the Top 5 pretty much says it all.
Adam Morrison doesn’t qualify because his teams coaches and GMs aren’t dumb enough to play him
Bargnani is not the worst player in the league, but he easily could be the most harmful… which again, while not his fault, is the coachs/GMs for playing (and paying) him.
Raptors offense was inefficient in part due to Bargnani, not despite him. Way to may long jumpers (most inefficient shot in Basketball), not enough drives, post up and therefore FTs.
No player is unflawed, but Aldridge and Roy are much less flawed than Bargnani. Its beyond me how Bargnani shoudn’t be placed in the Kwame or Darko territory… when there were atleast 4 stars taken after him (Aldridge, Roy, Gay, Rondo)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 26, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Parker et al
A. Parker was playing overseas (Maccabi?) and while his origin is NA, he was essentially lifted out of ‘Europe’.
B. Kleiza is also a ‘vet’, so either Rasho and him both don’t count, or both do. Be consistent and pick one.
C. Calderon (no ‘e’ on the end) was kept on by BC during his first rebuild, and then re-upped by BC. Any survey of the teams ‘Euros’ counts Calderon as one, and he is currently the teams MVP.
by CamHilton on Jun 25, 2011 2:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A. Parker doesn’t count because he is North American, developed in North America and started in the NBA before he went to the Euroleague
B. Fair point on Rasho
C. Calderon was discovered and aquired by a different regime. I can’t see you can give credit to BC for NOT getting rid of him. Finally, the contract he signed Calderon to was above market as he reached to sign a player that is obviously a standout back-up to a starter’s salary (why do you think even BC tried to trade him last summber – conversly why do you think the deal was eventually turned down). The fact that Calderon is a 22 win team’s “MVP” is more of an indictment of the Raptors roster and the GM that put it together than some sort of credit for BC’s resume.
Parker counts
A. Parker was lifted out of the Euroleague where ge was otherwise toiling in relative obscurity. BC found a very useful player to speed the rebuild along. He counts.
B. ’Nuff said
C. Calderon counts, he’s a Euro, and BC made him part of our rebuild. His Paws is very decent (and one reason why I reject all these suggestions we need to rebuild our PG position before the others) and while there are glaring holes all over the roster he is the one legit starter on our club. His salary is well in keeping with his performance.
As for why the Chandler deal was rejected, that has more to do with the perfidy and stupidity of MJ than anything to do with BC.
by CamHilton on Jun 25, 2011 5:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You can’t have it both ways. If Rasho has to count as a Euro because despite playing in the NBA he is originally a European, then Parker who is originally an American who played in the Euroleague has to count as an American.
Calderon has not been made part of the rebuild. BC has just not been able to deal him because there have been no takers for his contrac (that BC himself gave him). As for the Bobcats deal, what it came down to is they didn’t want to take on Calderon’s contract.
Look, what it boils down to, is that the significant (not bit players) European players BC has brought in here have been failures. This is what has lead to a sensitivity with the fan based. When you weigh the approx $20 mil he gave Rasho and Garbo (both good moves, not disputing) to the $120 mil he signed Turk, Bargnani and Kleiza (understanding that he only paid Turk for one year – but that meant having to pay Barbosa for another two) you can see how your argument falls short. On the balance, the European moves and all moves generally have lead the team to where it sits now 22 wins and not much chance of improvement next year.
Parker counts
A. Parker was lifted out of the Euroleague where ge was otherwise toiling in relative obscurity. BC found a very useful player to speed the rebuild along. He counts.
B. ’Nuff said
C. Calderon counts, he’s a Euro, and BC made him part of our rebuild. His Paws is very decent (and one reason why I reject all these suggestions we need to rebuild our PG position before the others) and while there are glaring holes all over the roster he is the one legit starter on our club. His salary is well in keeping with his performance.
As for why the Chandler deal was rejected, that has more to do with the perfidy and stupidity of MJ than anything to do with BC.
by CamHilton on Jun 25, 2011 5:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am TOTALLY OFFENDED!!!
For years I have been posting on this site as Robert Archibald. I thought it was a clever reference to the fact that I was a Raptor fan that moved out to Scotland, so I would pay homage to Scotland’s contribution to your Euro-Fatigue. Robert Archibald made up one half of the Banger Brothers along with Lonny Baxter. The big Scot-Euro would play tough under the net, and showed the true grit that only a 7’ Scotsman could. To think we only had to give up Mengke Bateer and 2003 second-round draft choice Remon Van de Hare to acquire my namesake. I think Turk and Bargnani have blinded you to all the proud tough Euro heritage there is on this Toronto Raptors team. I don’t think Linus is done yet and I think his standing can only go up, and likely will next season. With that I give you a proud Zan Tabak salute, and wish you well sir.
Walker McKenna
by Robert Archibald on Jun 25, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If you read the thread again, I’m sure you will realize that we are discussing Euros brought in by BC. Making your comments around Robert Archibald (miss the Banger brothers) and Zan Taback irrelevant.
Dude, lighten up
Don’t worry Robert Archibald, I laughed :)
MAS11
I think you are wrong here. Nothing about Zan Tabak is irrelevant. Just awesome!
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 25, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
disagree
BC got seriously outplayed by Kevin Pritchard in the Bargs draft. Pritchard obtained Brandon Roy and Lamarcus Aldridge in that “weak” draft, two cornerstones of a player calibre team. Luck is what you make it – pritchard managed this by trading telfair and victor khryapa. BC got served.
Stephen A. Smith disagrees
Aldridge would have produced another avalanche of venom if picked because Bosh was already on the team just like CV did previously. Without a consensus #1 pick taking a guy at the 5 (a glaring need) was a defensible choice.
Roy was knocked for having bad knees, and while he had a nice last three seasons he is now bone on bone and his career is in jeopardy. Face it, it was a bad draft and there is no fault in swinging for the fences when faced with less than ideal options.
BC is also on record that he tried to trade down in that draft, but couldn’t find any takers.
by CamHilton on Jun 25, 2011 3:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No idea
Sadly I’m not privy to the Raptors war room decision making.
My point is a simple one, given the options he had his choice was a bad one only with 20/20 hindsight. Bargs clearly had skill and fit a glaring need, and given the unpalatable options in an historically weak draft (pick a redundant player, or one with serious injury concerns), it’s defensible to swing for the fences.
As for Pritchard, remind me again where he is GM? How many championships did he build in Portland? What round did they advance to in the playoffs?
Here are the facts of life;
- if you aren’t in a big US market you will eventually lose your stars (see Orlando with Shaq and soon with Howard)
- if you don’t have one of the 50 all-time best players you don’t get to win a championship.
- since we can’t trade for these players because we aren’t LA or Bos, we have to draft them.
- rebuilds take time. You can ‘quick fix’ a team to be .500, but that just makes you first round fodder and screws your chance of drafting a superstar.
The best plan then for the Raps is to suck hard until we land a franchise player (or two) in the draft and then add pieces to compliment them. Drafting a Walker or Knight would make sense if we had a franchise player in place, but we don’t, so we are better off being bad for a while in the hopes we can land one in the draft.
by CamHilton on Jun 25, 2011 3:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it’s a rhetorical question to illustrate how it couldnt have been that hard to move down from #1 if it took VK to move up to spots to the #2 pick.
The point isn’t about pritchard – it’s about being out smarted in a draft and proving that in the same draft that BC loyalists say was garbage, not his fault, that there were franchise cornerstones being put in place at lower picks than his.
Because pritchard is not employed doesn’t automatically make BC a better GM (and i hope that’s not your point, cause it’s just stupid). Casey wasn’t a head coach last year and Triano was – so what?
Just for the record though – pritchard had more playoff appearances, more winning seasons and without a doubt stockpiled more talent than Colangelo did during the same span.
Cornerstones?
You can’t ague that Pritchard selected two franchise cornerstones and schooled BC when;
A. BC couldn’t draft Aldridge who was essentially Bosh-lite for a team that already had Bosh, and
B. Roy’s career is effectively over 5 years in with a massive albatross of a contract
by CamHilton on Jun 25, 2011 7:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
When you draft that high up duplication isn’t your biggest concern, talent is (that’s why the Spurs took Duncan who was considered a center even though they had a center in robinson).
Roy was more of a player in those few years, than Bargnani will be in a lifetime.
No matter how you slice it or dice it, Pritchard came away with more in that draft, when he started with less.
at the time.. Bosh was saying he wanted Aldridge here.
May have just been lip-service… but I remember him saying so in a few interviews.
This is a re-post from the 'valanciunas is two cookies' pink slip...
So BC is NOT the cookie monster?… that’s what I got out of that analogy! In seriousness, both were very good articles. The Picket Fence is doing well by re-affirming Colangelos arguments. BC was speaking straight from the spleen yesterday. Frustration amongst the ranks is a hard thing to deal with, simply because being a Raptor fan is so callously linked to a franchise that is a joke. When this is simply not the case.
It seems to be a Raps fan, one must also be a student of zen….and interpersonal diplomacy…
Not bad skills to possess, if I may say so….. at least thats what’s on the table (including the possibility of more cookies to come)….
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
Unfortunately...
I found it very disturbing reading so much truly disrespectful remarks concerning the pick! I mean within 5 minutes of the announcement all of JV’s youtube videos were totally bombarded with extremely rude and, what I can only describe as, “Childish angry drunken ignorant disrespect.” It was a horrible thing to see, and showed that after all this time that maybe most of the Raptor fan base (mostly bandwagon jumpers I would hope) is still not basketball savvy! Though I am not talking about most of the people who post and come to this site, which I felt held up really-REALLY well in the discussions and the general talk concerning the pick. From both those who were happy and those who weren’t. That was a real A++ for RaptorsHQ I thought!
But I mean we want whomever comes to Toronto to feel WANTED. It is NOT their fault for where they are drafted. I get that a lot of people hate BC, and I get that they were hoping to get some kind of instant leadership. But this was a true Black Eye on the city! And I also blame the reporters who were asking the questions immediately following. Some of them were truly ignorant and unprofessional… serving only to make things worse.
Now I was not a big JV supported going into it… instead was hoping to land Knight maybe. But when he fell to them at 5, I like other was shocked as well. However, as has been posted above here, I became converted and am very happy with this selection. My remarks are only based upon the utter ass-backwardness and childishness of a lot of the comments directed at the player himself. Just plain stupid. It was like reading some Maple Leaf boards, or even Blue Jays boards… a ton of uninformed irrational nonsense. But I guess if I think of it that way, over the other sports, I shouldn’t be surprised.
The same thing happened on the official Raptors' Facebook page
It was pretty ridiculous. People were saying that they hoped he got injured and never played for the Raps because of it. These are the people i like to call the video game crowd. Idiots.
I don’t know much about this kid, but at least give him a chance before you crucify him. He’s no Araujo, let’s be serious here. And people fail to realize that the fact that he won’t be here next year is a good thing since we should hope to get a high pick next year as well. Then we can start shooting up the rankings.
warming up to the idea
at first i admit i was mad at the selection of him over kemba, but i am slowly warming up to the idea of having him
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 25, 2011 2:11 PM EDT reply actions
Tim Pickett???
Who is this guy that is taking credit for my blog?? I’m going to say this once, and that’s it. The last name is Wearing.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
So glad we cleared that up. Now we can move on with the rest of our lives.....
HQ is kind enough to give you some cred’ and traffic and is repaid with snark? Classy.
Woah, there. It was a joke. The guy above you figured that out. I appreciated the credit, but thought it was funny he gave me a new last name. I think the snark is coming from you.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
My bad. Didnt realize u were joking
by MAS11 on Jun 25, 2011 4:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So JV got bought out.
I guess he’s coming to the NBA next year.
http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/147564-buyout-agreement
Look at the article again, it says he will come for the 2012-13 season. Seems like a strange agreement, but apparently the buyout involved him playing one more year with the club.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Better Than A Year In The D-League
Wonder what Big BC will acquire this summer if there is a season next fall.
Maybe Sheed or Shaq will come out of retirement for one season. Just kidding, Just kidding. LOL
Colangelo stated repeatedly in a recent interview that part of the buyout was going to be arranging a beneficial "learning environment" with the Lithuanian team next year...
So Colangelo gets to have a partial hand in GM’ing a European club at the same time as the Raps… lol… Oh well, at least we know their fans like Euro players…
"the Truth"
re: Jonas Playing In Europe Next Year
I would rather he play in the Spanish or Italian League due to a higher level of competition. Then again, I think BC has has more leverage with a Lithuanian team in regard to making sure he really piles up the minutes with one year left. Rytas will want to make sure that future Lithuanian prospects (and Lithuanian fans in general) see them doing right by a talented native player. Especially since they received a negotiated buyout BEFORE he was eligible to leave the team.
Wolstat Reports That Barbosa Exercises Option To Stay With Raptors
It appears Leandro Barbosa will not be heading back to Brazil after all.
Toronto Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo told QMI Agency Saturday afternoon that Barbosa has picked up his $7.6 million U.S. player option for the 2011-2012 season. Barbosa beat a midnight deadline to make a call.
There had been speculation Barbosa would play in his native Brazil since a looming lockout threatens to wipe out the NBA season.
This would have given the Raptors a huge boost in cap space.
Both sides have also expressed interest in renegotiating Barbosa’s contract into a longer deal.
No surprise really...
7.6 is a lot to walk away from.
Walker McKenna
by Robert Archibald on Jun 25, 2011 5:42 PM EDT reply actions
Next summer is shaping up to be a doozy
Walker McKenna
by Robert Archibald on Jun 25, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently he was using the possibility of opting out to leverage an extension. I guess he doesn’t understand rebuilding either? ;)
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 25, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He Is Only 28
I just hope he is healthy next season.
This is da worst pick
in the history of the raptors…!!!!
this pick will make the Araujo pick look genius. come on BC….jst as we all thought we were going the right direction….???? when the pick was annouced i could swear I thought i was watching the NHL draft.
In The History Of The Raptors Eh?
“this pick will make the Araujo pick look genius. come on BC”
I’d like to hear your justification for this point. Sounds like pure hyperbole to me.
Valanciunas...
I was very angry when his name was called. I hated this pick, so I did more research on him and I changed my opinion to “dislike”. At 6’11 he’s not the “Defensive Stopper” that we need. Offensively he pretty much gets all his touches from the pick and roll, and putbacks. Jonas himself acknowledged that he has no post game. Also said he’s not strong enough to back down European defenders. For me if he can’t back down any defender in the European players how in the world is he gonna do it in 2-4 years.
I wanted BC to draft Leonard but if it was between only big man. BC should have drafted Biyombo. Biyombo is only 6’9 relatively small for a center but can jump out the gym. Jonas is no where close to athletic as Biyombo. Biyombo wingspan is 7.6 while Jonas is 7.4. Not a big difference but with Biyombo superb athletic ability he averaged 2.3 blocks a game and Jonas a measly .6. Biyombo not only blocks shots but is a presence in the paint and most importantly alters shots. At the same age, Biyombo should have been the pick.
I will say I as I always do
I have no idea what these players will become.
But…. if they ever reached their scouting potential:
Biyombo – Ben Wallace
Jonas – Pau Gasol
I’d want Biyombo in a second. (not that I’d complain about a Pau Gasol)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 26, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I can respect that view point.
The supposed shortlist of Jonas V, Biyombo, Kawhi Leonard and Brandon Knight triggered a sigh of relief when I heard it.
In the back of my mind, I was worried we would select Kemba Walker.
BC had talked at length of how much he liked the kid in a Tim and Sid podcast earlier this month. He’d talked about how an Aaron Brooks type pg was something that was essential in the new NBA with the no handcheck rule.
While I respect his accomplishments, and think he’s got great intangibles, I thought that we weren’t setting our sights high enough if we drafted him. We don’t know how well Brandon Knight would have performed in his Junior year, and he was the pg of a team that made it to the finals against UConn. We also don’t know how much progress he would have made in playing the PG position after having been primarily a scoring guard in high school. Kemba had physical tool question marks that weren’t shared by any of the eventual top 8 picks. If he proves the doubters wrong, all the power to him. If we’re picking based on upside, I’d pick everyone on the Raptors shortlist ahead of Kemba in a second.
I mentioned this the other day
but I was very much against Kemba early. He definetely looked like he had the tools, a title under his belt etc., but I still saw him as a 2 guard in a points body.
That said as we got closer to draft day I started to feel alot more comfortable with the pick. And on draft day when I saw how Kemba reacted to the 9th pick and how Walker reacted to the 8 (when really coming from similar situations, both possible top 5 picks and dropping respectively I really got the feeling he is a real appreciative guy, and will be a hard working player. With the tools he already has…. I’m just not going to put past him becoming one of the best picks of this draft and having a long career.
Would Kemba have been the best pick for the Raps? Probably not. But I gotta say I don’t think it will be a bad one.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 26, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
That was my gripe. Don’t hate Val, just think you could have gotten a better talent at what you keep saying is a need, defence, rebounding, blocking shots…etc.
but how do you know biyombo’s a better talent?
this is where i dont understand why theres so much negativism about our pick. before the actual draft, mock’s had valanciunas as the player taken ahead of biyombo. do i think one is better than the other? at this point no, i havent seen much play but i dont think you can already state that one is better than the other. Valanciunas too is supposedly good at defence, rebounding, and block shots.
imo i think both can be good players in this league. what i can see is biyombo turning into a decent center like adonal foyle who will have a long good career in this league but nothing more. with valanciunas i can see a tyson chandler kinda, (all based on youtube videos).
at this point though, i think val has a better chance at becoming a more efficient scorer as he already is better at shooting the ball, well from the free throw line, apparently. if paired with ed davis, i think he’d be a better than davis being paired with biyombo, as neither are good at shooting…at all. if paired with andrea, than biyombo might have been a better pick. but i already know, andrea isnt very popular around here. so, if indeed, as i expect ed davis, who seems to play a more center game but in a pf body, will be the future pf of this team (hopefully thats what being planned) id rather have a center who can possibly have a mid range game too as well as rebounding and defense, which of course is what Valanciunas is expected to provide as his scounting potential is of pau gasol kind.
overall i just think val has as good of a chance as biyombo to succeed in this league.
I don’t think he’s a better talent. I think he will be better at what he is better at already than Val (much of which Val admits himself), defence, rebounding, blocking shots. All scouts have said Biyombo is way more physical and way stronger. He is 240 ripped.
I think that from what I’ve seen. Granted it’s limited, but when I see Biyombo murdering future lottery picks on defence, it’s obvious to me he is going to be very special on that end of the floor. I just don’t see Val being able to have the same impact (not that he wont be good on that end, but he is just isn’t as physically gifted nor does he seem to have the same ultra physical game). Like it’s been said above – Val is being compared to Gasol, Big Z etc.. and Biyombo is being compared to Ben Wallace, Ibaka. For our team I would go with Biyombo – again that’s just my opinion.
fair enough. i just think it all depends on match ups and because i really want to see bargnani go, val to me would be better paired with ed davis in the front court for the raptors future. anywho time will tell on who will eventually become the more desired player, and hopefully its Valanciunas… well because hes on our team now
And in 2012
With Bayless, DeRozan, Johnson, Davis and Bargnani, we have a reasonable starting 5 if we have a 2011-12 season.
Come 2012-13 we’ll have Valencinuas on board and if we can trade Calderon for a R1, then a couple of picks.
If we can grab Myck Kabongo at PG and then take a flyer on John Henson F, from North Carolina, I think we may have an excellent roster moving forward.
2011 USA Basketball Men's U19 Exhibition Schedule/Results
They are getting creamed today by the U20 Lithuanian team.
with 7 minutes to go in the game Lithuania is ahead 80 – 61
http://live.baskethotel.com/lkf/?&lang=1
USA Schedule here
I cant see the game. Is Valanciunas playing?
by untouchable_21 on Jun 26, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He Might Be Playing on Tuesday
when the USA U19 goes up against the Lithuania U19.
He Should Be Playing Tuesday vs the U.S.A.
LTU – No Valanciunas, no problem for Lithuania
PANEVEZYS (Global Games| FIBA U19 World Championship) – Lithuania proved to be too hard to stop for Australia, as the hosts of the tournament took another victory in the Global Games tournament despite playing without star Jonas Valanciunas once again.
Although the Lithuanian big man had already returned to the country after a couple of days on the other side of the pond for the NBA Draft, where he was selected by the Toronto Raptors with the fifth pick, Valanciunas wasn’t even in the arena as his teammates defeated the Australian team 80-70 even without the team’s star.
"The guy has spent 30 hours in the air having flown to the States and back. We want him to rest a little," Lithuanian coach Kazys Maksvytis explained why Valanciunas’ name wasn’t in the lineup.
It didn’t prove to be a problem for the Lithuanians as the home side ran away already and took an early 20-7 lead in the first quarter mainly due to a terrific performance on the defensive end.
Australia, who had some problems of their own, with starting point guard Mitchell Norton out of the World Championship with a broken foot, were forced to play catch-up, but didn’t come within striking distance despite having the momentum on their side for a couple of times.
However, the Emus, with 22 points from Mitchell Creek, couldn’t turn it around, as Lithuania’s trio of Zygimantas Skucas, Dovydas Redikas and Vytenis Cizauskas stepped up in the clutch moments. Skucas top-scored for Lithuania and ended the game with 18 points, as both Redikas and Cizauskas ended the game with 14 each.
Next in line to take on the Lithuanians are the mighty strong USA, who will have to play a different Lithuania on Tuesday, as Jonas Valanciunas should already be in the lineup for the Baltic team.
"We’re now really waiting for Jonas to join us. We’ll be looking to challenge Team USA in a couple of days," said Lithuanian coach Maksvytis, who will announce the final squad for the 2011 FIBA U19 Word Championship on Sunday.
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/byNF/p/newsid/47482/arti.html
If I can find a live streaming link I will post it.
Thanks. I’d love to watch it.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Here Is The USA U19 (Under 19) Roster
http://www.usabasketball.com/mens/u19/roster.html
I don’t know what the birthday cut off date is to determine if someone qualifies for U19.
He is Ranked Behind Josh Smith by ESPN
and that is a still loaded with baby fat Josh Smith
Smith is ranked #2 among Centers
Young is ranked #6 among Centers
You don’t like Josh Smith?
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/44133/josh-smith
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/66600/patric-young
How About One Of DeMar's Neighbors Norvel Pelle?
Here is a short video of Pelle with top of the head at rim level dunks and more.
I know who’s side you were on during the east vs. west coast hip hop feud :)
Pelle has some serious hops, but I don’t trust lefty big men that wear a #4 jersey :)
Pelle and Khem Birch are going to have some battles in the Big East.
I still say that out of all the bigmen prospects out there, Andre Drummond still has to be considered the best IMO.
Here was a prospect
A look back at Mr. Howard (look at his freakin body at 17/18 years old!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNU65x9ZAHg&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I Found An International Basketball Forum With a JV Thead on It
Here are some of the latest comments
One more foreigner to the Toronto Raptors.
Bad and stupid team
the team might not play the highest IQ basketball, but the organization is really devoted to improve and Raps have one of the biggest fanbases in NBA. Fans are really passionate and care about their team, unlike some deserted franchises like Grizzlies fro example. If Jonas will be able to elevate this team to a higher level, he will be beloved by their supporters
Let’s hope he doesn’t pull a “Türkoğlu” and prefer partying in Toronto over playing for the team
RFLMAO on the last one LOL
http://forums.interbasket.net/f4/jonas-valan-269-i-363-nas-11568/
The Reality With Jonas Is
That what they drafted was the equivalent of a High School Senior.
As long as he turns into the 5th best player in the draft, that works fine for me.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Umm, that’s relative to how fast he does it. The trajectory he takes to being the 5th best, needs to be graded as well, IMO.
The Raptors don’t need him to develop super fast. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, whether it takes him 1 year or 4 years it doesn’t matter.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
How Do You Measure It?
There are so many subject ways to measure this.
1. Advanced metrics
2. All-star game appearances
3. NBA playoff game wins
4. NBA playoff appearances
5. NBA Finals wins.
6. etc
Totally subjective. Fun to argue but impossible to really determine.
true, but as long as someone has some semblance of a criteria for how they determine success, then that’s fine by me. For me time is relevant. A guy like jason terry turned into one of the better players in his draft class – but how’d that work out for the hawks who drafted him (i think).
Even If There Was A Standard Way To Determine That
people would still argue about it. LOL
I didn’t mean literally. If he is one of the better players of the draft I will be happy. How about that?
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
re: Draft pick performence relative to draft status and Colangelo's short list
Given how many unexpected sleepers from the late first round or second round end up severely outperforming their draft position, this could be a tall order for any player at any draft position. I’m looking at this more as to what Jonas V ends up becoming, rather then relative status in relation to other players. If he turns out to be the definitive starting center in the NBA for x years, then this pick was a success. How much of a success will depend on how large a part he plays, and how close he comes to the potential he’s projected to have. ie Definitive answer at the Center position for several years.
Can only make decisions based on projections, and see how accurate they are. Whether one player ends up on a much steeper development curve, contrary to their pace before the draft, is unknowable and depends entirely on the player. Factors such as upside, perceived likelihood of reaching upside, NBA position along with track record, are a few of several factors which go into a players ranking on a team’s draft board.
As far as criteria, Buddahfan is correct, since the relative criteria, aside from projections is entirely subjective. All Star appearances is dependent on how deep the talent pool is in a given conference, at a given position. Playoff performance dependent on teammates, etc. As far as advanced metrics, I think that PER could be very telling. If Jonas V truly Amir Johnson-like the advanced metrics will tell the tale of the tape, since they are part of what makes Amir stand out.
I will be curious to look back at this draft and the supposed short list we had. Jonas V, Bismark Biyombo, Brandon Knight, and Kawhi Leonard (with the last three in unknown order) If he was willing to trade down if Jonas V was off the board, I wound infer that he didn’t see a significant difference in ranking between the three relative to each other. If he knew that Washington was taking Jan Vesely, then at least two of them would have been available at pick 8 (Pistons).
Does Bismark Biyombo end up being Serge Ibaka or Ben Wallace. Or he end up more Tyrus Thomas, Joel Anthony, or fall by the wayside like most prospects that started high level basketball late (Pape Sow, Mamadou N’diyie (sp?), Saer Sene.
Does Brandon Knight end up developing his point guard skills ala Chauncey Billups? Or does he become instant offense ala Jason Terry, or jet off to Europe as a designated scoring star in the Euroleague.
For Kawhi, he had some serious physical tools for a wing, not unlike Bismark Biyombo. The question was exactly how much room does his perimeter game have to grow. Does he become the starter that defends the best of the two opposing wings, and contributes in the hustle stats while also making the corner three pointer reliably. Does he develop his off the dribble game? Does he top out as a great rebounder for a small forward, who doesn’t have any other skill that can be relied on consistently? He’s hard to peg since his athleticism isn’t
As personal interest, I will be following the careers of Kawhi Leonard and Chris Singleton. They both struck me as defense / rebounding first SF’s with more then the average defensive specialist tools (ie your Joey Grahams, Damion James, Sam Young) in recent drafts.
I'm not completely sure it will be that easy
I think having the year away will be great for Val because getting away from the crowd is probably a good thing. I know alot of people are starting to warm up to him, but I can almost bet they will forget that if someone picked after him becomes a stud player (specifically Walker, Kemba, Biyombo or Leonard ie. the shortlist). I think he can’t be just a solid player in Toronto if someone else turns out to be good.
Tons can change that along the way… but right now if he doesn’t turn out to be a top pick or someone behind him becomes a stud, Val may very well be viewed as Darko-lite.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 26, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO Walker Has About As Much Chance Of Becoming A "Stud" Player
as Amir does of winning the scoring title.
Good point about that shortlist. I will acknowledge that I keep up with the odd Gerald Henderson boxscore, or highlight, alone with Terrance Williams. I see them as the alternatives for the Raptors 2009 pick that were passed on for the higher upside of DD.
He can turnout to be good and a player later on could turn out to be better. And vice versa. Jonas could end up making the decision to draft Tristan Thompsen at four and Enes Kanter at three look like mistakes in hindsights. However, as long as Enes Kanter does well, and Tristan does well, their fanbases shouldn’t dwell on it too much.
I agree the time away could benefit Jonas V much more if he bulks up and adheres to an NBA style weight training regime, along with a personal trainer. Bismark and Enes Kanter were anomolies. Most basketball players are lanky, and most eighteen year old bigmen fall into the 6 ’10 – 7 foot, 220-230 range when they are 18 years of age. While the fans on this board would be aware of this fact, since we follow the process more closely, I could see casual fans expecting huge things out of Jonas V right off the bat as a function of being drafted fifth overall.
WAIT - we could have drafted Biz Markie?
Would he have performed “Just a Friend” at halftime?
Maestro last year at the halftime of the Suns game wasn’t enough?
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