Raptors HQ Pre-Draft Rumours and Rumblings Thread
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 8:50 PM EDT
in NBA Draft
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PrintA look at some of the top stories in Raptor-land as we head towards the 2011 NBA Draft...
The next 48 hours or so is obviously going to be a whirlwind in Raptor-land.
The team just hired a new coach, has the fifth pick in the draft, is looking for an additional first-round pick, and has enough cap space to possibly move some pieces around either pre or post-draft.
That all equates to lots of excitement for fans, and lots of interesting rumours and rumblings.
But as Jonathan Givony of Draftexpress.com tweeted earlier today:
Hot air coming out of NBA front offices yesterday was impressive...Take everything you hear w/a grain of salt.
That being said, there are a few interesting notes to discuss, and we'll continue to update this thread during the day as more info comes in.
At the top of things this afternoon, the apparent interest both the Raptors and the Sacramento Kings have in Tony Parker.
According to a report from ESPN.com this morning originating from Yahoo Sports yesterday, the Spurs have been gauging teams' interest in Tony Parker, a player they're apparently willing to move for a high lottery pick in return. And as noted, the two teams with the most interest appear to be Toronto and Sacramento.
At face value, this is a very interesting move. The Raps would definitely upgrade the PG position if such a deal went through, Parker providing the water-bug, penetrating PG that Toronto hasn't had since TJ Ford arguably.
Is he worth the fifth pick?
I'd say yes in this draft, as Parker still has another three of four good years of ball in him (he turned 29 about a month ago) and could be the club's anchor at the 1 during this "rebuild."
His contract is a lengthy one however, he signed a four-year, $50M extension last fall, so to make things work financially, the Raps would not only have to move the fifth pick, but also one of their bigger salaries.
Jose Calderon makes the most sense, thus alleviating the log jam at the 1 if Parker arrives on the scene, not to mention giving the Spurs a back-up to George Hill, but his salary alone would not be enough to make the deal work, and Toronto would likely have to use the remainder of the trade exception acquired via the Chris Bosh sign-and-trade.
Interestingly, the following deal works.
Throw in the Raps' fifth pick, and maybe the Spurs' 29th pick, and talk about getting "two birds stoned at once," as Ricky from the Trailer Park Boys would say.
However while Blair might be available based on his usage in last year's playoffs, and maybe the Spurs go big at 5 to replace him, it's doubtful either team would agree to such a move. Plus, ESPN.com's Marc Stein is reporting that the Spurs are trying to move Richard Jefferson too, so that gets tricky.
Plus, I still get the feeling that BC is hanging onto Bargs, more on this in a minute, and can you really imagine Greg Popovich and Andrea co-existing?
Moving on.
About 30 hours from the draft and the mock drafts are firmly divided into two camps as to how Toronto will pick tomorrow evening.
One side maintains that Kemba Walker will be the choice, the other, Jan Vesely.
ESPN.com reported this morning that Kemba's stock may be sliding but that could all be a smoke-screen by NBA GM's, looking to nab the UCONN MVP.
I still have a hard time seeing Vesely as the pick at 5, but then again, I would have bet a huge sum against Toronto drafting Rafael Araujo over Andre Iguodala.
The ESPN piece goes on to talk Bismack Biyombo in relation to Toronto as well:
Toronto was impressed with the workout of Congo forward Bismack Biyombo Monday in New York, particularly his athleticism and raw skill. But his lack of basketball experience could be a negative in the decision process. The Raptors remain also extremely high on Jan Vesely of Partizan (Serbia) and Knight if the Kentucky point guard remains on the board.
I still think Knight's the pick provided he's around, and with Utah perhaps leaning towards Enes Kanter over Brandon Knight, this might be a realistic possibility.
I also think that Colangelo is going to do everything in his power to grab Biyombo later on, so this will be an interesting situation to keep an eye on. Biyombo possesses many of the physical attributes that made Tyson Chandler so valuable to the Mavericks this spring, and with Dwane Casey now on board...
Speaking of Casey, a few quick thoughts from yesterday's presser.
First, love the hire, and as I tweeted yesterday, think this is a huge step back in the right direction for the club. I'm also a big fan of the timing, as now Casey can have some input on the final decision regarding the draft, as said player will have to be a fit in the system he runs.
That being said, as Kelly Dwyer noted yesterday though, hitting the nail on the head in his piece:
until Colangelo provides Toronto with a suitable roster, then Casey will struggle to match the famous 20-20 mark he put together with a terrible Timberwolves team in his last half-season as coach in 2007-08.
Think we've all been in agreement here for a while on this point.
Second, I got the feeling that Andrea Bargnani isn't going anywhere. Bryan Colangelo essentially told Casey that he had his work cut out for him in terms of getting the most out of Bargs at that end of the court, and made note of Dirk's improvement on D under Casey. I couldn't help but think that BC watched the playoffs and said "hey, look what Casey did for Dirk, he can do the same for Bargs!"
As one of our readers posted this morning in the comments section, that's not happening, showing the huge difference between the two statistically.
Backing this up, a scary quote from Casey:
"I mean, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. But we're going to work with him, whether it's holding him accountable, putting my arm around him, whatever it takes to work with Andrea because he's got too much talent to let it fade and not really try to strain his potential out of him and try to get the most we can out of him. Again, he's our star, he and DeMar are our core guys."
Yikes.
More on this topic via Tim and Sid's podcast with Mr. Casey.
The one thing I was disappointed in regarding the presser, was the lack of questions regarding Casey's use of zone defence. Sure, it was touched on, but I was kicking myself for not heading down to the presser (and for having another job) and asking a few questions relating to this. You may recall that last off-season I argued that Toronto should employ this defensive strategy a lot more often, given their personnel, and it would have been interesting to hear if Casey thought that more zone was indeed a solution to the team's defensive woes.
Finally, could Casey's hiring mean another major push for soon-to-be free agent Tyson Chandler?
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2:36 PM EST
One of the worries we've had at the HQ in the Brandon Knight vs. Kemba Walker debate is that one turns into a player the club already has; Jerryd Bayless.
While it was believed that Walker was the more likely candidate of the two in this regard, a post by Basketball Prospectus' Kevin Pelton shows that in fact, Brandon Knight's best NBA compare is actually Mr. Bayless.
However it's not like Walker's compare is Chris Paul.
How about DJ Augustin...
The Raptors' other potential options?
How about Andrew Bogut for Jan Vesely (which seems really strange to me), Joe Johnson for Kawhi Leonard, Dante Cunningham for Chris Singleton, Sean Williams (minus the attitude hopefully) for Bismack Biyombo, and the biggie...Dwight Howard for Jonas Valanciunas.
There's a good explanation for each section, and if nothing, the post illustrates just how these drafts generally turn out; lots of intrigue on paper, but looking back, a lot more misses than hits.
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2:50 PM EST
Any more idea as to which way the Raptors are going to draft tomorrow night?
Not really, although I'd put money down that Bismack Biyombo is in the war room conversation.
From the National Post's Eric Koreen via Twitter:
Colangelo on Biyombo: "He doesn't have a broken shot, by the way. It's not broken at all. We've seen broken."
Hmmm...
Considering that Bryan Colangelo noted in the Dwane Casey presser yesterday that it appeared more and more unlikely that the team could grab a second first-round pick, if the team covets Biyombo that much, they may indeed reach for him at five.
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ESPN.com is now reporting that the Wolves are leaning towards Enes Kanter over Derrick Williams at 3 and if that's the case, suddenly the draft could change quite a bit.
Chad Ford of ESPN lays out three different scenarios after Kyrie Irving is off the board, and what's interesting is that in each one, the Raptors take Brandon Knight if he's available, and if he's gone, they grab Kawhi Leonard.
This seems a bit strange considering that Ford has been banging the "Jan Vesely to the Raptors at 5" in his last series of mock draft iterations.
Further complicating matters?
Ford notes below in this post that:
The Raptors are the next logical landing place for Walker, but they've never been particularly high on him. They've flirted for a while with Vesely, but as I reported on Tuesday, the team appears to be emphasizing defense, as demonstrated by the hiring of coach Dwane Casey. It now appears that either Biyombo or Leonard is the favorite to go No. 5.
So how again is Vesely the best option here?
Also of note, the Toronto Sun's Ryan Wolstat is tweeting live from the NBA Draft Media session in NYC. (You can follow him at twitter/WolstatSun)
From his feed:
Valanciunas & Kanter seemed particularly enthused about playing in a city like Toronto...Val compared self to Bosh
and
Val's English wasn't perfect but I was on conference call for Bargnani in 2006 and he was pretty much unintelligible. Val was OK
and
Valanciunas looked young and very slim. Won't be a viable NBA centre for 3 years, book it.
The Tyson Chandler compares brought up in the Basketball Prospectus link above make a lot of sense then as it took Chandler quite a few seasons in the L before really establishing himself.
Speaking of Valanciunas, he spoke with the media in NYC and noted that his buy-out is $2.5M, and that his contract is very difficult to get out of. That alone will scare most NBA teams away I'm guessing, and considering that said teams can only contribute $500K to a buy-out, it's doubtful that Valanciunas will be ponying up the rest.
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5:50 PM EST:
Last update probably for the day unless something big breaks tonight.
The latest is that the Raptors may have a best-case scenario in their hands as ESPN.com is reporting that both the T-Wolves and Jazz are looking at Enes Kanter with their top picks. While Chad Ford from ESPN notes that Minny may just be posturing, and still feels that Derrick Williams will be their pick, the Jazz seem to be ready to snatch Kanter up.
This would mean that Toronto would have its pick of Brandon Knight, Kawi Leonard and Bismack Biyombo, not to mention Kemba Walker, Jonas Valanciunas and Jan Vesely.
Therefore what looked to be a "Kemba or Vesely" situation only a week or so ago, now looks much different as Ford is reporting that Canadian Tristan Thompson, could go fourth overall to the Cavs if Kanter is indeed off the board.
Finally, a few Raptors-related interviews.
Second, new Raptors' coach Dwane Casey.
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Raptors impressed with the workout of Congo forward Bismack Biyombo Monday
• Toronto was impressed with the workout of Congo forward Bismack Biyombo Monday in New York, particularly his athleticism and raw skill. But his lack of basketball experience could be a negative in the decision process. The Raptors remain also extremely high on Jan Vesely of Partizan (Serbia) and Knight if the Kentucky point guard remains on the board.
the more i hear about the raps seriously considering Vesley at the 5...
the more i want to die
by tea time on Jun 22, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not a fan either…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I am surprised at how one sided this vote is becoming. Parker is a former all star that is signed for 4 more years and will be only 32 at the end of his contract.
I personally am split on this one, too bad Langoria is no longer part of the trade package. it would be a YES for me then.
by Al Bundy is my hero on Jun 22, 2011 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
I’d be fine with moving the pick for Parker, provided the rest of the package makes sense.
I just don’t think you’re getting a player of his calibre at 5 in this draft.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Parker’s strength has always been penetrating and getting to the rim for layups (he led the league in points in the paint one year or at least for a large part of the season). Kemba does that very well as well so I see no point in trading the pick for an older kemba with a huge salary and also taking back jefferson’s contract (as reported by espn). It just doesn’t make sense
or most drafts for that matter. This should be a major red flag that the Spurs think his best years are behind him. I still think you have to do the deal (assuming everything is right) but I am worried about why the sudden change from the Spurs.
Cavs Still Interested in Valanciunas at #4
• The Cavs are still seriously considering drafting Lithuanian big man Jonas Valanciunas at No. 4, even though he may not be able to come to Cleveland until the 2012-13 season because of complications with the buyout of his contract with his current team. Kentucky’s Enes Kanter is also a viable alternative at No. 4 if he’s still available.
So let me get this straight.
The Cavs are rumored to be interested in taking Valanciunas at #4
The Spurs are rumored to be interested in trading up to take Valanciunas at #5 or #7
However, there is not indication that the Raptors are interested in him at #5
Now that make a hell of a lot sense.
its seems like Valanciunas is like saying 'check'..... Kanter means fold.... Kemba Walker is a 'bluff'.... Knight is 'the small blind'...lol
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
It makes sense when you look at the fact that BC only has 2 years to demonstrate a reason to keep his job...
Why would he want to waste half of that time sending a player to Europe?
It may be better for the Raptors in the long run, but Colangelo wants to be re-signed in 2 years…
That’s the biggest reason he would overlook JV with the 5 pick…
"the Truth"
Holy Smokers - Hoops Fans In Windsor
could be driving over the Detroit river this coming winter
With top prospects in New York Thursday for media and service responsibilities, a person familiar with the draft discussions said the Pistons appear to have zeroed in on Texas small forward Tristan Thompson with the eighth pick. Thompson canceled other scheduled workouts after working out for the Pistons with five other players Wednesday
Marc Stein: San Antonio, as I hear it, wants to attach Richard Jefferson to any Tony Parker deal. Can’t see that appealing to Raps. Or Kings. Twitter
Rumors About Casey's Coaching Staff
Here is my coaching staff. Sam Mitchell, Jay Triano, Butch Carter, Kevin O’Neil and Lenny Wilkins
RFLMAO
so if they’re keeping Bargnani and as basically everyone admitted at the end of the season he can’t play center in this league, what does that mean for Amir and Ed. What a freaking shame……
Just because he can't play center doesn't mean he CAN play PF or any other position...
It just may mean he can’t play competitive basketball at all…
Buddha posted before, and I’ve reminded people repeatedly, Bargnani’s best stats come as a Center… and those “best stats” are still pretty bad…
"the Truth"
Totally agree!
My fear is that BC thinks he will be better at PF because:
1) Andrea thinks this
2) He can’t play centre
Even if every piece of statistical evidence points to the exact oposite. It’s just reached a level of stupidity with Bargnani in this organization, that two legitimate talents (Davis, A. Johnson) are probably going to lose minutes and development oportunities because of BC’s irrational tie to Bargnani. It’s beyond frustrating.
First Post About Casey and Amir
I am not worried about Amir’s minutes under Casey.
1. If Casey spends time with DeMar during the summer then it would seem reasonable that Casey at least knows Amir
2. Amir is a Casey type player.
It’s going to be very interesting to see how Casey deals with Andrea if he’s indeed kept around.
Casey talked a lot about accountability but in the end, BC is still holding the strings here.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Cricket cricket
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Good draft vids
David Locke’s youtube channel… play by play man for the Utah Jazz… not sure if anyone has posted this before but he has lots of game vid/with commentary for almost all the possible draftees… have a look.
"I got the feeling that Andrea Bargnani isn't going anywhere. "
I hate you franchise. Kill the messenger!
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 22, 2011 1:05 PM EDT reply actions
Ha ha ha…believe me, I HATED typing those words…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Dudes, chill!
No matter what, Casey was going to talk about how he was going to use Bargnani. He has to. Did you really expect him to start trashing Bargs when he might actually have to coach him if BC doesn’t trade him first. Not a good way to start a relationship.
Bargs is still under contract to the Raptors. Until Bargs goes, he’s an “asset” and you have to pretend he’s valuable even if you are not going to use him. We’ll see by the start of the season whether Bargnani will benefit by the coaching move or whether he will go. I’m not expecting the former so I’m hoping for the latter.
I didn’t expect trashing of course, but I was surprised by how integral Casey made it sounds like Andrea was this coming season.
I expected that about DeMar, Ed etc…but Ed was barely mentioned.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, once Bargnani is traded I will agree with you. That all the nonsense spued from this organization about Bargnani was a smokescreen. However, until that day, we will have to go with the track record of the organization. And the track record is completely ignoring reality when it comes to Bargnani. This is driven by Colangelo’s otherworldly obsession with proving everyone (including all the evidence) wrong about him.
re Bargnani
Anyone who expected Colangelo to trade Bargnani, “a good basketball player, who can be an elite player, and is a valuable asset”, and leading scorer for the Raptors, without having a replacement to take over his role, is not listening to Colangelo!
Quotations his words. BC makes trades or moves to improve the team, short and long term no matter his contract status, not to get rid of players to appease the media.
“BC makes trades or moves to improve the team, short and long term”
so how do you explain the last 5 years then?
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 22, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
i would like this deal to happen.
this will put the spotlight on Toronto and perhaps make other big names sign in Toronto once we get the exposure. This has not happen since the earlier years of VC and arguably during Bosh’s time with us.
i don't think
people watch the Spurs for Parker. Rasho – Kurt Thomas – Antonio McDyees in that order have been the guys to watch over the years. Oh there’s another guy on that team, his name escapes me though.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 22, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
but...
i am sure that Parker will put more attention into the raptors and put more seats in the stand.
Colangelo just made a great coaching hire. Combine that with moves like the Amir Johnson signing, the Ed Davis selection, and whatever he does with the 5th pick… it’s hard not to be bullish on the direction of the Raptors.
And then Colangelo turns around and sh!ts on everything by clinging to the belief that Casey can turn Bargs into the next Nowtizki despite the mounting statistical evidence that there’s absolutely no comparison between the Finals MVP and one of the least productive, most harmful players in the league.
Looks like the Raps are content to set up a good coach to fail. Awesome.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2011 1:29 PM EDT reply actions
not gonna lie to you DS
if you jump on a unicorn and fly to the land or rainbows Bargnani and Dirk are actually the same person. So I can understand where the confusion comes from.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 22, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Love it
There’s still a lot of mileage in the unicorn jokes if you ask me.
I have a terrible feeling
we are gonna have to stretch them for atleast another season
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 22, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't put too much stock in that
What else is BC going to do with Bargs? If he’s looking to trade him, the last thing he wants to do is say “We give up, he can’t play D or rebound.” The rest of the league sees what we see, and I think BC realizes that Bargnani is essentially untradeable. So you might as well try and light a fire under his ass. I’m pretty sure that if Casey can’t do anything with him, BC will grudgingly allow Casey to nail Bargnani’s ass to the pine. Btw, are you guys doing the annual draft party this year?
LOL
Yeah it’s that “core” part that kills me too tea time.
I mean, core from years 1 to 3, fine…but he’s STILL core??
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry not buying it this time..
Colangelo didn’t have to say ANYTHING about Bargnani, but he did. He mentioned Bargnani on purpose when there was no need to. It’s not about protecting bargnani’s “value” this time, its about BC’s irrational Bargnani delusions and his boarderline pathological need to be “right” about Bargnani and therefore give him chance, after chance, after chance. So much so that he is willing to (as DS put it) sh!t on the franchise to do so.
BC May Have Just Been Saying That
I am sure that that he doesn’t want to diss Bargnani in public for a number of reasons.
However, the proof will be in the pudding.
We shall see.
If Bargs is starting and getting 30+ minutes and 20+ shots per game in November (or whenever next season begins), we’ll finally realize how large of a gap exists between reality and Colangelo’s line of thinking. At least he was only extended for two years…
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If that happens the HQ guys HAVE to ask BC some pointed questios at the first availability. For example, despite all the evidence pointing to Bargnani being one of the least productive players in the game, why does he still get the minutes/opportunities he does. SOMEONE needs to make BC answer this question.
Valanciunas Buy-Out Update
jfleminghoops Jason Fleming
RT @alexkennedynba: Valanciunas said that his agent is still working on his buyout and that he may be able to play in the NBA next season
Re Valanciunas
Of course he’s going to say that – he wants to get drafted. But would I use the fifth pick on a guy who may or may not be able to play here next season? Absolutely not.
Too Many Absolutes In Your Posts Without Backup
for them to worth considering.
Sorry
Biyombo?
It’s pretty clear the Raps won’t take him with the fifth pick, but would you gamble on him if they were able to acquire another pick? I would have to say no – the history of “extremely athletic but raw” prospects is generally one of failure. I guess you could say the same thing about Tristan Thompson, but he’s not nearly THAT raw – it’ll be interesting to see just how good he is.
They May Trade Down to Draft Him
I am not exactly sure how you arrive at your statement that
It’s pretty clear the Raps won’t take him with the fifth pick,
Seems more like you don’t want the Raptors to take him with the #5 pick then anything else. I have not read anything to support your comment.
Well, true enough, but...
I don’t want the Raps to pick him fifth because frankly, there will be better options. Not to mention that if you’re looking for that kind of player, wouldn’t you much rather take Tristan Thompson at five? He’s much more of a known quantity than Biyombo, with just as much (if not more) upside. But would I tear my hair out if they acquired a second first-rounder and took Biyombo after grabbing a Knight or Walker? No.
I’m not high on Biyombo at all. Quite frankly, I think we’ll be referring to him as “Bust-ombo” very soon. That being said, if you’re going to roll the dice on the guy, I’d be happy to see Bargnani dealt for the #12 pick (or something along those lines) if Biyombo starts slipping in the draft.
We already know Bargs is a bust. At least Biyombo has some conceivable upside as a defender.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I think if we could get Bismack in the 9-12 spot in the draft then it is well worth the pick! For the same reasons you just posted. And since it is hinted that Detroit looks to be going with Thompson now it may be possible. He would only be considered a bust if he was taken in the top 5-6… but then again this is a weak draft. I think the guy will surprise though… despite your Bust-ombo remark.
I’d take a shot at Biyombo too if the Raps could move down to get him.
At five, the team needs a little more certainty I think.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Amen
Hear hear. With the Raps current ineptitude, they can’t afford to waste a top five pick on a project.
Buford: Spurs ‘not shopping anyone’
Responding to an internet report about discussions the Spurs have had regarding potential trades, Spurs general manager R.C. Buford on Wednesday denied that the club actively is seeking a trade that would involve All-Star point guard Tony Parker.
"We’re not shopping anyone," Buford said, via text message. "We’ve received calls on a lot of our guys and we’ve answered the phone."
YahooSports’ Adrian Wojnarowski reported that the Spurs had been "in discussions" with with Raptors and Kings for a deal involving Parker.
An executive of a team not involved in the discussions said he had no knowledge that the Spurs were seeking deals for Parker, but confirmed the belief they were "gauging the interest" of teams that called about him.
cont on link
More Valanciunas
Mary Schmitt Boyer: Valanciunas confident contract situation will be worked out Twitter
About Biyombo -RMLMAO
Chris Littman: Just watched Biyombo dunk 75 times in a row (I’m sure @bobcats will have video of it) before he clanked No. 76. Always my favorite drill. Twitter
This is the greatest...
thing possibly ever to see the courts (the legal one’s):
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jun 22, 2011 2:14 PM EDT reply actions
Yawn
America is a country of lawsuits.
If you live long enough you are guaranteed to sue someone or be sued by someone.
When you are as rich as Cuban that will most likely happen a lot more than once.
Of more interest regarding Cuban is his interest in buying the L.A. Dodgers as he mentioned in a Tuesday interview.
Cuban Willing To Buy Dodgers
I don't think thats a yawner
the document is pretty impressive
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 22, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Its A Yawner
It is clear that you don’t live in Los Angeles
I have my reservations whether this will even make TMZ.
If it doesn’t make TMZ and I am a regular watcher than it is a yawner.
Stuff like this happens all the time in Los Angeles so when it happens some other place in the country or in Los Angeles it is a yawner unless it makes TMZ. LOL
For example some entertainer, i can’t recall her name just bought a home for $85 million.
I didn’t read the lawsuit but if it gets to over $1 billion then I might be interested.
well
you got me there. TMZ definetely is the threshold for excitment.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 22, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Entertaining Stuff If You Are Into The Hollywood Scene
Last night for example they managed to nab Kurt Rambis at L.A.X.
They asked him if he would be interested in coaching the TMZ basketball team in a charity game.
He looked into the camera smiled and said.
“Have you guys at TMZ seen my coaching record” RFLMOA on that one.
Seriously?
The humour in this is off the scale.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jun 22, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Love how the team is reffered to exclusively as “The World Champion” Dallas Mavericks.
lol...drunks & lawyers.....
this is on par with the chewbacca defense….
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
If Cavs Are Set On Taking Valanciunas #4 - Williams Could Fall To The Raptors
Late Tuesday night, sources told ESPN.com that the Minnesota Timberwolves are strongly considering taking Enes Kanter with the No. 2 pick. Kanter, they believe, is a better fit than Derrick Williams. If the Wolves don’t make a trade and do take Kanter, it will shake up the entire draft. At that point it’s highly likely that the Jazz would take Williams at No. 3
So we would have
1. Irving
2. Kanter
3. Knight
4. Valanciunas
5. Williams – Bingo
Lets keep our fingers and toes crossed on this one.
More On Williams Possibly Falling In the Raptors Lap At #5
SamAmicoFSO Sam Amico
Cavs GM Chris Grant tells ESPN he knows who he intends to pick No. 1, and that Cavs intend to keep Nos. 1 and 4 picks.
Could be Irving and Valanciunas as suggested above.
So if that holds and Kanter does get drafted by the T-Wolves then the Jazz will decide whether the Raptors get to take Knight or Williams.
Jazz please take Knight and T-Wolves please take Kanter.
Dude, in the quote that YOU posted it says if the Wolves take Kanter the Jazz would take Williams...
Did you just conveniently ignore that part?
"the Truth"
I Said
then the Jazz will decide whether the Raptors get to take Knight or Williams.
You are so desperate to win an argument with me that you have started to misquote my posts. LOL
No, this is what you said...
So we would have
1. Irving
2. Kanter
3. Knight
4. Valanciunas
5. Williams – Bingo
"the Truth"
We Are Done Going Back and Forth For Today
I have no interest in wasting my time satisfying your obsessive need to argue.
Cheers
never draft a tweener
college PFs never make the transition to NBA SFs. This guy is Beasley 2.0. Also he is a UA player, they never pan out. I will be very disappointed if the Raps end up with williams.
-1
I would be super happy if we got Williams
It’s weird because while I’d be thrilled if the Raps somehow got Williams, it’s all relative. I still have some major questions about him at the next level and really, the only guy I’m over the moon about in this draft continues to be Irving.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The difference is...
Beasley is a head case. By all accounts, Williams is not. I have questions about him too, but I’m a lot more comfortable with those questions than I am with, say, Enes Kanter’s.
Great point
And from what I saw this year, Williams is a better perimeter shooter and generally played more on the peremiter than Beasely ever did.
I find interesting that the Spurs are looking to move up
They have been very good at evaluating talent and finding diamonds in the rough… so for this team to be so aggressive to gain a high pick makes me think that either there is a player who they feel is going to be a super talent in this league… or the draft is uber-UBER weak! I tell you, something is up! And more than their re-building claim….
They Want To Move Up To Draft Valanciunas
Ostensibly to eventually replace Duncan on the front line.
Considering this is coming from a team that pioneered the use of advanced stats to influence personnel decisions…
If I was Colangelo, I’d go ahead and draft Valanciunas and keep him for myself. Afterall, comparisons to Dwight Howard and Tyson Chandler are a helluva lot better than drafting the next Jerryd Bayless (Brandon Knight).
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Why no love for Kanter?
I for one am hoping they land Kanter at 5. Solid testing (physical and athletic measurements), loves to bang, appears to have a strong desire to rebound, decent shot and very soft hands. I like the Horford comparisons.
Latest rumours have him going in top 3 now…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I Want Him To Go #2
He would good playing next to Love.
Introductions
Hello All – Although I have been following Raps HQ for a while now I haven’t posted before today.
I’ve long been a hoops fan and have had a brief stint as a basketball journalist writing articles for HoopsWorld and participating in experts league fantasy drafts with CBS sportsline.
Just thought i’d introduce myself.
Cheers.
Welcome!
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome Hoopsdaddy!
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 22, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Wolstat on Valanciunas
WolstatSun Ryan Wolstat
Valanciunas and Kanter seemed particularly enthused about playing in a city like Toronto and with current roster. Val compared self to Bosh
Wolstat however tweeted that in his opinion Valanciunas English was better than Bargnani’s was in 2006 which was according to Wolstat basically unintelligible.
WolstatSun Ryan Wolstat
Val’s English wasn’t perfect but I was on conference call for Bargnani in 2006 and he was pretty much unintelligible. Val was OK
Wolstat also tweeted that he thinks Valanciunas is too skinny to play right now in the NBA. I don’t agree. IMO Valanciunas is not ready to start but could handle 10 -15 mpg okay.
Dwane Casey On the core players in Toronto:
"Andrea (Bargnani) is definitely a piece of the core that we have to utilize. He’s our star. DeMar Derozan is definitely an athletic part of our core, Jose Calderon, Jerryd Bayless, James Johnson is in that group, and Amir Johnson. You’ve got the core now. The part you may have to add is a veteran piece, a veteran defender or whatever along with our draft pick is something that I’m sure Bryan and the staff are going to look at, but the core pieces are there to build on to use as building blocks. Those guys are the guys were gonna push, cajole, put an arm around, or whatever it takes to get to that next level."
Yep – the Raptors led by “star” Bargnani are just a veteran or two away from jumping into the 50-60 win range.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
24 hrs in and Casey has already drowned in the Kool-aide.
Let’s just hold out hope that as some commenters have argued, this is all a masterplan to maintane Bargnani’s trade value…
Casey is going to have to learn to defend himself from Bargs...
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
Better Yet Casey Should Learn To Speak Italian
As much as I don’t like Bargnani’s overall game if Casey took the trouble to learn at least rudimentary Italian it could spur Bargnani on to put forth more effort on defense out of respect for Casey’s going the extra mile to communicate with Bargnani.
What utter nonsense....
Sorry buddah, you’ve lost me on this one.
That's
gotta burn a lot of asses around here.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Jun 22, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
SI has Raps getting Knight
Interestingly SI is saying that the Jazz are leaning towards Kanter with their pic, which would mean Knight falls to us.
I gotta say, the fact there seems to be no clear-cut 3-infinity pick has made this one of the most interesting drafts ever. Will be a lot of fun to see where the pieces fall, and even more to check back in 5 years and see what this draft really produced.
Your Conclusion Could Be Correct
However, sources are saying and I already posted above that the T-Wolves are very interested in Kanter at the #2 which leaves the Jazz most likely taking Williams or Knight, the latter who they have indicated, its been all over the hoops websites, that they are very interested in primarily because they don’t think that D. Harris is the guy that want at PG in a couple of seasons.
That would drop Williams right into the Raptors lap because the Cavs are still very interested in Valanciunas with the #4 pick
I doubt the Cavs remain interested in Val if Williams drops. If they can get the 1-2 players in this draft with picks 1 and 4, they will, and run away fast.
by dhackett1565 on Jun 22, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You Have No Source For This
Got to remember that both Big Z and Valanciounas are Lithuanian. You can bet that they value Big Z opinion of Valanciunas and Big Z was a big favorite in Cleveland.
That's right Buddha, but remember that maniacal little voice in the back of your head doesn't count as a source either...
Because, you know, YOUR sources now have Big Z working with Cleveland in their scouting sessions and draft discussions…
"the Truth"
Where is your source that says Big Z even has a favourable opinion of JV?
Just because they’re from the same place?
Maybe Big Z thinks he’s a pansy ass piece of garbage?
Where’s your source?
"the Truth"
Didn’t they already attempt to move up to #2 a week or so ago, to get both Irving and Williams?
by dhackett1565 on Jun 23, 2011 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Kanter, Wiz and Obama - Also Jonas Said He Doesn't Think It Will Be Raptors
Michael Lee: Enes Kanter: “I would love to go to DC. It’s an international city. Obama loves basketball. I would love to play with John Wall.” #wizards Twitter
Michael Lee: When asked where he thought he was going in the draft, Jonas Valanciunas said, “Cleveland or Washington.” #wizards Twitter
Minnesota is still looking to land a high-level, impact player for its No. 2 pick, and a source said one of the Timberwolves’ many trade proposals was a request for Lakers center Andrew Bynum, which involved sending small forward Michael Beasley to Los Angeles. I don’t see this deal or the reported offer involving Pau Gasol actually happening, but it sheds light on the caliber of player general manager David Kahn is hoping to net for his pick.
A source close to the Timberwolves said they haven’t settled on whether to take Arizona’s Derrick Williams or perhaps Turkish center Enes Kanter, but rival executives expect them to opt for the former over the latter. Yet, with the obvious duplication in skill-set that comes with having Williams and Beasley, taking Kanter would be the bold move.
Bismack Biyombo impressive in final predraft workout
Sorry about the line-outs. It just pasted that way.
CHARLOTTE — Working out for the third team in three days, Bismack Biyombo continued his recovery from a poor showing at the adidas Eurocamp in Treviso, Italy, by flashing the athleticism that had NBA scouts and fans drooling after his Nike Hoop Summit performance in April.
Biyombo was a part of a six-man workout in Charlotte in front of coach Paul Silas, general manager Rich Cho and owner Michael Jordan. Matched up against Marcus Morris, Jordan Hamilton, Chris Singleton, JaJuan Johnson and Thomas Coleman, Biyombo did what one might expect — blocked shots and threw down dunks in spectacular fashion - but he also managed to display a shooting touch that was better than advertised. Biyombo worked out for the Raptors on Monday and the Pistons on Tuesday. Prior to those team workouts, Biyombo held a one-on-none workout at the adidas Eurocamp that drew criticism for showcasing his weaknesses (shooting, dribbling) rather than his strengths (rebounding, shot blocking). From the free throw line, Biyombo showed a touch that would seem to alleviate any fears about a "Hack-a’Mack" strategy from the opposition.
Last Post For Now - This One On Chuck It Up Brick City Walker
nbadraftnet NBADraft.net
If Kemba slips past 7, which it looks like he will, he can easily slide out of lottery and into teens
Kemba is possibly...
Nbadraft.net also mentions that Kemba might be the quickest (he’s top 3 for sure) and most competitive (hard to argue) player in the draft.
Hmm, speed and and desire to compete – i’ll take that.
Everyone Thought That The Raptors Would Take Brick City B4 the Casey Announement
now according to Chad Ford it will be between
Biyombo, Knight and Leonard.
See below
Of course BC could mess his draft up big time and select Brick City.
We shall see.
Is it just me or is anybody else starting to feel like Buddha doesn't like Kemba?
Maybe we could be lucky enough to draft him just so Buddha can stop being a fan…
"the Truth"
I'm going to get...
Buddha a night out with Kemba and Bargs.
Chad Ford's Latest That I Have Seen
5. At No. 5, the Raptors will have a choice between Knight, Kawhi Leonard and Bismack Biyombo. Despite the recent push to improve their defense, I doubt they let a talent like Knight slip past them at 5.
I would prefer Biyombo from the three listed above.
I'm afraid Biyombo might be....
Stromile Swift
The Next Dwight
okay.
If if he the Raptors draft him, remember Dwight couldn’t shoot when he first came into the league, it will be the best move pick they move they could make even if Biyombo only becomes the next Serge Ibaka.
If people thought...
BB was the night Dwight I am pretty sure he would be going first.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jun 22, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I Think The Trouble With A Lot Of Raptors Fans
is that they don’t have an appreciation for a defensive stopper in the middle what with Bargnani playing there for the last 6 or so seasons. LOL
Forget DraftNet
Go with inside people like Ford.
Ford is not infallible but he has a lot more and better sources than DraftNet though Ford thinks that the Raptors could take Knight.but doesn’t rule out Biyombo.
Biyombo for the Raptors yea – BC make it so.
Holy Smokers - Chad Ford Thinks That The Cavs Could Take TT at #4
4. If Kanter is off the board, the Cavs will have to choose between taking Jonas Valanciunas and Texas forward Tristan Thompson. I think they are actually leaning toward Thompson. The Cavs love Valanciunas, but have concerns about his inability to play in the NBA next season. Those concerns would dissipate if they trade down, but at No. 4 they are hesitant to take him.
Sources say the Cavs brought Thompson back for a second workout on Monday along with Williams, Kanter and Brandon Knight. Thompson met with owner Dan Gilbert and, from what I can gather, there’s a growing comfort level with Thompson at No. 4. That should come as some vindication for our own John Hollinger. On Monday, Hollinger’s Draft Rater pegged Thompson as the third-best prospect in the draft.
I like Thompson...
Tough interior defence and attacks the rim hard on O.
No Doubt
However, I haven’t seen any reliable source suggesting that TT will wind up in a Raptors uniform. Beside the Raptors need help in the middle not at PF.
TT is a 5
I know everyone calls him a 4, but think about his game – has 5 written all over it (i know he measured small, but makes up for it with length, decent girth, and lift).
TT reminds me of....
Theo Ratliffe – undersized 5.
Cleveland
won’t draft him at 4. They’ve been looking into ALOT of trade down scenarios if Williams and Kanter are unavailable at the 4.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 22, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I Wonder How Many of The Raptors Fans Who Want BC To Draft
Knight or Kemba are Bargnani lovers?
Just asking.
I Like Walker
How’s that a Bargnani thing?
I think Kemba is polished – with Leadership skills. A guy who’s gone from a passer who couldn’t / wouldn’t shoot, to a shooter who isn’t a true PG. He has a good resume, leading his UConn to the title.
.
Being as the theme (around Raptor Land) has been potential potential , it would be nice to have a seasoned yet maybe not all star guy, for a change. I also think leadership has been one of the biggest problems with this team. All the US/Europe rumours would not be, if Raptors had a Leader. This current crew of Toronto NBA players – at this point – are Followers. Some very good at it. We need someone to take charge.
.
Walker may be small, but he’s agile. And I think he would contribute well towards our fast break points standing (#1 until late March). If he can focus on defense first – Casey will instil this – then acclimatize himself to ball handler duties, Walker could be our "potential" PG for the foreseeable future. Next year – apparently – is a flood of SF, so why not wait for that next part in 2012.
.
Rome wasn’t built in a day, and f#@k knows most Toronto sports fans have accepted that a Championship is not part of our immediate reality.
by RapthoseLeafs on Jun 23, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Bargnani to .....
Charlotte for Diaw and #9 pick?
Draft Knight
Andrea’s offence is interesting but his defence is horrible. I often feel like I want the rebound more than he does; and I’m sitting on my couch watching the game for fun at 5’8 with no vertical. Not a fan of Andrea’s effort, so no, I am not a fan.
Knight and Valanciounas Interview
Knight
I think T-Dot is a great city
I am a PG not a a combo Guard.
Valanciunas interview had a lot of background noise and he speaks softly so it was a bit hard to understand him.
Prospective Draftee Best Quote I Have Read or Heard So Far
Sam Amico: Kyrie Irving to Dan Patrick on FOX Sports: “I’m not really looking to be the next LeBron James unless I grow 6 inches in the next 2 hours.” Twitter
LOL
Congo
How can we take Biyombo 5th when most people don’t have him even going in the lottery?
Wouldn’t we be better to trade for a lower pick and try to grab him there? Or make a deal with a team like San Antonio or Houston and have them pick him with a deal with us already in place.
Or trade the 5th pick for two later picks and choose him then. There has to be a better way to get him.
That Is Bunk
Most of my quotes and links are from reliable sources and they see him going in the lottery. LOL
His last three workouts including the one with the Raptors have gotten very positive reviews as opposed to the one in Europe a couple of weeks ago.
Yes He is Not In The Green Room
But that list was made up before Biyombo worked out for the Raptors, Pistons and Bobcats. He has gotten very positive reviews in each of those workouts.
Agree...
If we are hell bent on him maybe we trade the 5 pick to Charlotte for #9 & #19 and grab him with #9. I would be happy to see us trade down for multiple picks. I think there won’t be as much of a difference as in years past in talent level, from say the 10th pick to the 20th pick.
Biyombo
Buddha, I didn’t say anything bad about him, I just said we could probably get him and pay a smaller price tag than the 5th pick. I actually like the pick, just not at 5.
Knight Has Now In My Opinions Become A Problematic Pick For the Raptors
He just said, link above, that he is a PG period.
Unless Casey thinks that he wants Bayless at the #2 or has a trade in place for Calderon then that makes Knight a third PG. Kind of dumb to use your #5 pick on a third string PG.
However both Knight and Casey are from KY so BC might draft him anyone based on the best asset available theory and then figure out along with Casey how to juggle those three PG assets.
if we draft either Kemba or Knight then I’m betting on either Bayless or Calderon (probably bayless cause calderone contract too big) being traded probably within the same draft.
If The Raptors Draft Kemba
I am going to puke at least the first time I see him in a Raptors uniform.
I hate to even think about it, because I have at least triple downed on my anti Kemba rhetoric.
Haha Buddah… you have a serious Johnny Walker problem… errr… I mean Kemba!
I think you have written his name down like 1,000,000 times in the past week on posts! I am starting to believe you have a secret crush on him or something! :P
But back to the point, I would LOVE to see Bayless traded or moved somehow if we get another pg. He has heart, but unfortunately I think his heart gets in the way of his brain and eyes… his court vision was terrible and drove me nuts last year… along with Kleiza’s Barg’s syndrome where he thought he had to shoot non-stop and kill whatever rally we had going at the time.
Buddha have you been absent from school this whole time?
If we draft Knight, it has always been the contention that Jose would be on the trading block to return another valuable asset…
You were the ONLY ONE who was advocating him as a SG…
Just you…
Catch up to the rest of the class or you’ll get left behind…
"the Truth"
Yeah, I love how this is news to him. He needs a direct quote from the player to see what the rest of us already saw.
by dhackett1565 on Jun 23, 2011 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Andrew Sharp: NBA Draft 2011: Jimmer Fredette Is White, And Other Brilliant Analysis
Jun 22, 2011 – The NBA Draft is only a day away, and in a draft that lacks star power and sex appeal, players like Jimmer Fredette have jumped to the forefront of conversation.
So let’s start with Jimmer.
Depending on who you ask, he’s either severely underrated because of his athleticism, or severely overrated because of… Well, his athleticism. Of course we’re speaking in code here. Unless you’re in the YouTube comment section, nobody’s just going to come out and say, “He’s overrated because he’s white.” But that’s what a lot of fans might think. Or maybe, "If he was black, he’d be a top five pick.
more here for Jimmer fans
strange
It’s probably an accurate point and it’s kinda sad. Race shouldn’t be an issue.
I prefer to think he is facing the same thing Adam Morrison and JJ Reddick faced; great college players but would their game translate to the NBA and would they be able to play D at the next level. JJ has done ok but not good and Morrison sucks.
Jimmer reminds me of both of these players a bit, except he was a more explosive scorer and likely a weaker defender.
by defensive rap on Jun 22, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, you're right
I noticed that too but just wanted to see if anybody else caught that.
Good eye.
by defensive rap on Jun 22, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Jose
If we take Knight it will be Jose who has to go. He just doesn’t fit into our future plans.
Starting five of Jose, Demar, Linas, Reggie and Andrea are not our future. Demar yes, the rest, NO.
Knight is a PG. Good. I hate the idea of drafting someone who is undefined.
The thing that is lost on Knight is his intelligence. If your PG is your smartest player, it’s a good start. If your PG is athletically gifted, that is another plus. So far so good for Knight.
daddy, you haven't been around when I posted before so I'll give you my reasoning as to why Knight could work...
My thoughts on why Knight might work well here…
The biggest plus side I see in drafting Knight is that it allows the Raptors to develop a very consistent offense.
Because Knight and Bayless are such similar players, you develop an offense that suits one, and it automatically suits the other.
This means that for such a young team across the board, you don’t have to make them all learn two different types of offensive schemes based on which PG is in the game at the time…
It allows one PG to be switched for the other seamlessly without missing a beat or changing the gameplan…
It would be much easier to coach these young players and develop them, without needing to add the confusion of knowing that the two guys getting minutes running the offense, are going to run completely different offenses because their own skillsets are so different…
I don’t think either Knight or Bayless will ever be a "next level" PG but I think that the stability they could provide would really help the team build around them, knowing exactly what they’re going to provide every night…
“the Truth”
by Mikthaniel on May 30, 2011
"the Truth"
Also Daddy, I think you're not quite getting the formatting of replies yet...
My “what the heck” was about Buddha’s Bayless heter comment… not your Knight = Williams comparison…
"the Truth"
Love Bayless, he's part of our future
Group 1. As a fan right now I love Ed, Amir, Bayless, JJ, and Demar.
Group 2. I do not like having Andrea, Jose, Linas, Reggie, or Barbosa.
The reason is simple; I can see group one developing into something better and group 2 I can’t see them being part of our championship run (in a few years).
If we draft Knight I love him and Bayless.
by defensive rap on Jun 22, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
no love for reggie?
i know he doesnt have much skill but whenever hes on the floor, his tenacity in rebounding and playing tough ball get the crowd going, and you notice all the young guys love it and start playing better. he also seems like the fun one on the bench and the locker room. remember when he took and held barbosa’s hand. HILARIOUS!
anyways i just see him as actually being a real veteran presence that the young guys actually look up to and can possibly bring the team closer together on and off the court which is always a plus
And by hilarious of course you mean unconventional behaviour and a clear indicator that he can't be respected in the locker room...
Oh wait, that was Buddha’s opinion on the joke…
"the Truth"
Brandon Said - In Comparison To Walker
I can shoot the basketball – RFLMAO
TT On Biyombo
Ryan Wolstat
Thompson on Biyombo: “He’s very talented, very athletic, long arms. He’s going to be a hell of a player. I’ll stamp that right now, he’s going to be a talented player in this league.” #NBAdraft
Kemba vs Knight
Kemba may have played his best game. Winning the NCAA tourney is no guarantee of NBA success. I like Kemba and wish him well, playing for another team.
Knight is younger and has more upside (and 3 to 4 inches).
Or we trade down with Chalotte and grab Biyombo at 9 and a solid prospect at 19.
Walker at 5 should not be a consideration. Knight, Kanter or JV should be the only discussion at 5.
it seems clear
the only hiccup is JV and not being able to get him right away. The other four are no brainers if they are available.
by defensive rap on Jun 22, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm
I don’t mind Knight, I just think you and others (mikthaniel) place a lot more importance on potential (which i do as well when it’s warranted) and height, than you do on major intangibles, like the will to win and succeed (i think people really sleep on how bad the rest of the UCONN team was this year), competitive nature (can you put a price on the competitive nature of kobe or wade? – and we haven’t had someone with that kind of drive in years) and pedigree.
For the 2-3 inches, how does that translate to the court? – does he grab more boards or steals, or his vertical leap better?
Knight is nice on paper – but i’ll take Kemba when it counts.
Think about it – there is a reason Knight’s agent didn’t want him to go head to head with Kemba…
Also
Walker beat Knight head to head twice this past season. Both statistically, and more importantly, with a team win.
by IWillPartyHard on Jun 22, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Think about it – there is a reason Knight’s agent didn’t want him to go head to head with Kemba…
There is also a reason Kemba tried to dodge Jimmer, and eventually got shown up by him when they did eventually match schedules…
Does that mean Jimmer is better than both of them?
"the Truth"
Walker vs Knight
Walker won in the NCAA tourney. Knight looked tentative in the Semis and Walker was clearly more comfortable running the show…I will give you that.
But
I don’t put a lot of stock in that performance. I also don’t think that because D. Rose lost in the final that he is a loser and can’t finish.
Walker for UCONN had free rain to do whatever he wanted and in the NCAA, a 40% shooter who is short but quick and can create his own shot is priceless. In the NBA it doesn’t look as good.
Walker is a bit like Damon was, but that’s not what we need right now.
Walker is a man and he is very polished. Knight is a year and a half younger and is still growing into the player he will be. that is why he has more upside.
Walker’s shooting has remained constantly average over the past few seasons.
Knight has always shot the ball better than Kemba, with a 47% fg and over 40% from 3.
by defensive rap on Jun 22, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Thompson goes at 4?
I hope so.
Irving
Williams
?Kanter or Knight
Thompson
Then we take Kanter or Knight. Whoever is left over.
Kanter or Knight
If they are both available I would take Kanter for sure.
But I also like trading down to get Biyombo at 9 and still have a pick at 19.
Avoid having many bad Knights....
Knight makes the list of most over rated selections for Berri/Alvarez at WOW.
Given we are already invested heavily in TWO sucky win producers (Bargs, DeMar) adding a third will put a stake through my heart. Anyone but Knight will likely be a better move.
I just can’t see Williams falling past #4, especially with the Valanciunas buyout issues.
Also don’t see the point in moving Calderon out even if we do get a PG – he’s easily our most productive player.
If we can get Biyombo, Valanciunas, Williams(!), or Kanter I’ll be happy.
by CamHilton on Jun 22, 2011 7:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Finally the Knight bashing contingent shows up....
What took you guys so long?
I have, you know, a job.
Seriously though, we use the advanced stats to bash Bargs all the time, let’s be consistent and point out that;
A. Derozan also isn’t very good
B. Knight looks like a bust if taken at 5
C. Find a way to get a lower pick and take Fareid, who has the best underlying stats in the draft.
by CamHilton on Jun 22, 2011 7:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Personally, I’m not that intrigued by Knight. I’d really prefer any of the three big men in this draft. Of course, I’m just as low on Walker, so I’m probably not the kind of Knight basher you were hoping for.
by dhackett1565 on Jun 23, 2011 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Kanter
i would prefer most to get Kanter. If we had the first pick we might take Williams, Irving or Kanter. So getting Kanter at 5 would be great.
Paul Silas Bobcats Head Cocah Who Know A Thing Or Two About Player Center
Coach Paul Silas was clearly impressed with Bismack Biyombo’s shotblocking and defense.
Oh Oh - Lock Out Coming?
Ken Berger: Hunter said he anticipates that owners may vote to lock out players Tuesday in Board of Governors meeting in Dallas. Twitter
i want to badly, but i dont think we should,
i mean he is old and what not but still good. I think we should draft Knight or Walker and just rebuild on the FLy Derozan Ed Davis and this guy im excited to say the least. And i hope we would trade a couple picks to maybe jump into the first round again around the 20th spot and see who we can get,Faried or Thompkins. Then i would be just the super happy fan.
Alec Burks slipping?
Everyone is saying he is slipping – do you think he deserves to slip?
Bismack Biyombo
I just watched footage of the 2011 Nike Hoop Summit again and there’s no doubt the Biyombo is an athletic freak. He was grabbing boards and dunking on some future high lottery picks (Anthony Davis – projected to go top 2 in next years draft, Michael Ghilcrist mid-late lotto).
And he tried to block everything (and almost did). He blocked Austin Rivers (future high lotto pick) several times as his agility and ability to cover the weak side was very impressive.
If we can slide down a bit to get him, I’d be fine with that.
Looks like Knight(?)
Surfing through various websites tonight, it looks like the projected draft order is now Irving/Williams/Kanter/Valenciunas (or maybe even Tristan Thompson at number 4). So unless Utah has a change of heart, it looks like Knight will be available at number five – that’s if you believe any the rumours swirling around…
Why Knight?
I can’t understand the fascination with Knight. He is a pretty good shooter who is too small to play SG and so the only position he can play in the league is PG yet he has no PG skills. For every Russell Westbrook in the league you can name so many more combo guards like Knight who were cast as PGs and never succeeded.
People seem intrigued with his shooting ability and athleticism and yet they entirely disregard the most important element – his lack of PG skills. I’d prefer the Raptors take one of Kanter, Valenciunas, Leonard or Biyombo. I hope Knight is gone when the Raptors pick at 5.
PG skills
Are you kidding me. He’s 19 years old and if his team played a little better they would have won the NCAA. He led them there.
Kemba almost didn’t even make the tourney and I wonder how much talk would be of Kemba had that happened?
I don’t mind JV, love Kanter, ok with Leonard and like Biyombo but not at 5 (trade down to get him) But if we are drafting a PG and Irving is not available then I can’t see anyone else having more upside than Knight.
Seems to me if the team wants Biyombo over the other guys available at 5, they should just take him at 5, unless they are absolutely sure he slips to wherever they trade down to. Don’t want to end up with two lower picks, but without any of the prospects you want.
by dhackett1565 on Jun 23, 2011 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Knight
The point is that we should be drafting the best player available and in this case that is not Knight who is, at least at this point, not a PG. Have you seen Hollinger’s draft rater and other advanced stats on Knight which suggest that his comparables are to Jerryd Bayless and his college stats don’t suggest he’s a star in the making.
Draft Day
Okay, I’m sure this is going to be a crazy draft and I’m just throwing it out there.
We get:
-Tony Parker
-Richard Jefferson
-Tyson Chandler (via free agent) – signed for $10-11 mil
We lose:
-5th overall in draft (Kanter or JV)
-Kleiza
-Calderon
-One of salary filler
Starting Five for your 2011-12 Toronto Rrrraptors~
Tony Parker
Demar
R.Jefferson
A.Barg
Tyson Chandler
6-8th place in the East.
Book it !
Bench
Front,
-Ed Davis (potential solid starter)
-Amir (solid backup)
-J.J. (backup)
Backs,
-Bayless (athletic guard)
-Barbosa (great complimentary to T.Parker)
-free agent SG (3’ specialist perhaps?)
This won’t win championships but sure gets us in the playoffs.
horrible
This won’t win championships but it will get us into the playoffs.
I want championships. Tony Parker is not the answer for us moving forward. Look, if he is not excited about playing with San Antonio because he feels their days of competing for a title are over, how excited would he be to play for us? This would be a huge mistake.
Build from within. And we are not ready to spend 10 million on a player until we figure out who we are as a team. Unless Dwight Howard wants to sign, then ok, but that ain’t in the forecast.
Jefferson and Parker are not the right pieces. I would rather have the fifth pick and Jose, who is at least loyal and efficient. Parker was an all star and he needs to go to a team like the Lakers or Orlando where he thinks he will have a chance to win a title. he is not a good pickup for a rebuilding team. Nor is Jefferson. These are the type of decisions than doom a franchise to mediocrity; always good to be a playoff team but never good enough to contend seriously. I want to seriously contend.
Also, those two contracts are huge and we would be crazy to take them on.
Winning
Amir, Davis, Bayless, and everyone else on the team need to create a new culture in Toronto and it needs to be led by Casey. I like it if they take the approach that it is us against the world. If we can become a tough team in the first year, I would be thrilled, but beyond being tough we need to start winning.
For those of you that think we should tank another year and get another high draft pick I say No! We need to work really hard and be successful. If the players on this roster get used to losing much more, it will start to become a habit. If we can start 19 and 21 or something close to that and have more wins by the all star break than we did all last year and maybe sneak into the playoffs to get our boys some playoff experience….that is the best road to take. I am sure Casey has every intention of making it happen. I am sure most analysts give the Raps no chance of making the playoffs but I hope its a new day in Toronto. Go Raps.
If Kanter fell to five it would be awesome. Irivng, Williams, Knight (they want a point guard) and then JV or Thompson gets taken 4th by Cleveland we could have Kanter at 5.
Raptors' culture
I agree about creating a new culture for raptors but what’s a culture with 22 wins in a season?
You need to create organization culture with young core players and backed up by veterans. Hiring Casey was the first step in right direction but he can’t promote it by himself.
Add two starters, a veteran, from San Antonio, and create a defensive, hard working, winning culture.
for godsakes just draft kemba walker at 5 man. he is way better then knight, trust me guys knight will just turn out to be a point guard who hangs around the perimeter and shoots threes, he will never be a true point guard. i would do parker for the fifth pick if we got there pick and dejaun blair
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 23, 2011 1:54 AM EDT reply actions
+1
If you want to see what happens with teams who keep getting high lottery picks look no further than the Clippers, Sacramento, GS, Washington or Minny. The Clips are looking like breaking through but Sterling will find a way to mess it up.
No trade for Parker
The Raptors will not be able to put together a contending team fast enough to take advantage of Parker’s prime years. It would be a waste of time for both the Raptors and Parker if this trade went ahead.
Yes Parker
Okay, I guarantee you that raptors are not good enough to get in the playoff with or without 5th overall pick in this draft.
And I’m talking next 2-3 years.
Parker’s contract is only guaranteed for 3 years, and same for Jefferson.
I would rather compete for next 3 years and see how the team works out and then make changes if necessary.
Also, Parker’s comment about staying in San Antonio; you gotta respect a player who loves the city he is playing for.
It’s not like he doesn’t like Toronto, I wants to stay in San Antonio to win. Although he complains about team’s short-coming and all, but this guy is warrior and wants to win.
That’s the kind of players we need to compete.
so the Raps
should ‘compete’ (and when I say compete, I mean compete just for a playoff spot as adding Parker and Jefferson doesn’t guarantee they’ll even do that) for the next 2-3 years.
Problem is, along the way they will have little to no cap space. Weak young talent. And low lottery to high outside the lottery picks. At which point they start the process all over again, just 2-3 years behind (again)
I have no problems with the Raps competing, but I would like that to be done with guys who are talented and have long term value to the team. Parker is a good player, but I can name 10 pgs who I’d be just as (if not more) happy with than him and he only has a few years left. Jefferson is all but a waste of cap space. Does it not atleast peak people’s curiosity when a team like San Antonio, with what is universally conisdered one of the best run franchises in NA sports, wants to trade players from their team? What does that say about the players they are giving up and/or the player(s) they want to get?
Long story short… trading for Parker (let alone Jefferson) is a bad idea for Raps.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 23, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
My Big Board for tonight's draft
For the purposes of posterity, here is my big board for tonight’s draft (for the Raptors obviously):
1. Irving – best player available in this year’s draft
2. Valanciunas – If the Spurs(league’s best international scouting, heavy users of advanced stats) think Valanciunas is worth trading a major piece of their team then that adds a lot of credibility to his pre-draft reviews. He could be the Raptors defensive anchor for a decade. For me the buyout is a non-issue and in the event of a lockout it is even an advantage. Lastly, Toronto is filled with hockey and baseball fans who understand perfectly well the concept of developing players “in the minors” before bringing them up to the big squad. The clincher is JV’s no-nonsense attitude and realistic view of his abilities.
3. Williams – Great scorer who would make Bargnani’s main “strength” redundant and virtually force Colangelo to trade him. Loses points for being a tweener, but gains some back for his attitude and winning track record.
4. Kanter – Has the potential to be the draft’s best player, but also has the most bust potential (IMHO) among the top prospects.
5. Leonard – Great array of skills and physical attributes.
6. Knight – Good physical attributes and intelligence. Decent track record, but some red flags in his advanced stats.
7. Biyombo – Interesting big man, but I don’t think he would pair as well with Ed and Amir as JV or EK would. Bust potential loses him points.
Since they pick fifth the Raptors are guaranteed to have access to at least 3 guys from this list. I really hope they take one of these guys. Biyombo doesn’t excite me much unless they are getting a second pick to take him.
I agree with your list almost entirely – I’d put Leonard 6th and Knight 7th, with Biyombo at 5, but I’m good otherwise. I think Any of the 3 bigs would be great additions to our frontcourt. Here’s hoping we get the subtraction our frontcourt needs soon.
by dhackett1565 on Jun 23, 2011 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Trade down
It would be a great draft if we trade down to mid 1st round and add 1st round in next years draft.
None of these players excites me and none will change raptors drastically.
More medium risk, high reward in mid to end of 1st round.
Trade down BC and find a gem.
almost no team
is at the point of giving up picks (of relevance) in next years draft. And almost every team wants picks in next years draft.
I will be amazed if I see even 1 potential lottery pick for next year get moved.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 23, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
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