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Toronto Raptors 2011 Draft Workout #3 - Leonard, Morris and the Canadian Kids

While there are two solid Canadian prospects in today's workout, it's Kawhi Leonard that the HQ is most interested in.

WIth just over a week to go before the NBA Draft, the Raps pick up the pace and get their third workout session in this afternoon at the ACC...

Star-divide

Last week we had top dogs Brandon Knight and Kemba Walker in town for workout sessions, however neither faced off.

At noon today we get the first of this week's workout sessions, one that features a few more top prospects, including two Canadians, in a solid group session.

Let's dig into it...

1.  Kawhi Leonard - F- San Diego State - While the Canadian kids will probably get the bulk of the media attention today, it's Kawhi that I'm hoping the HQ crew gets a chance to talk to.  Of this group, he's the premiere prospect, and we've explained why over the past few weeks, doing an entire feature on his strengths and weaknesses.

The Coles Notes version of that feature was that he's got a similar game to that of Gerald Wallace when Wallace entered the league; ie an exceptional rebounder and hustle play type thanks to his length, athleticism, instincts...oh, and extremely large hands.  These characteristics also bode well for him as an excellent defensive player at the next level.

Also like Wallace was as a rookie, Leonard is not a very efficient scorer, and one thing I'm sure the Raptors' braintrust will be taking a good look at today is how he shoots the ball in live action and individual drills.

We've currently got Kawhi penciled in as a top option for the Raps with the fifth pick, but how he fares today against Marcus Morris could go a long ways in deciding his ultimate fate.

2.  Marcus Morris - F - Kansas - In many ways, Marcus Morris is the opposite of Kawhi Leonard.  He doesn't possess the same athletic and physical gifts, and doesn't have the future defensive upside.  However he was the most lethal scorer in college last year from a points per minute basis, averaging 17 points a game to go alongside his 7.6 rebounds and 1.6 assists.  

On paper, this all sounds pretty good right?

Indeed, and his PER of nearly 30 last season shows that he's not simply a chucker.

However there's a big question as to his role next year in the NBA.  Morris claims to be as comfortable at the 3 as the 4, the position he manned for a good chunk of the season last year with Kansas, but can he play in a small forward position at the next level?  His offensive repertoire, including his excellent long-range ability (he shot 37 per cent from downtown over his college career) makes him better suited as a 3, but he doesn't have the athleticism and quicks that your typical NBA 3 possesses.

That's why you hear a lot of Al Harrington comparisons with Morris, something obviously the Raptors don't need.

That being said, his inclusion in this workout is an interesting one as a bit of a yin to Kawhi Leonard's yang.

3.  Tristan Thompson - F - Texas - The first of the two Canadian kids not only slated to be drafted this year, but appearing in today's workout, we recently profiled Thompson the past weekend, discussing his pros and cons.

Obviously there's a PR slant to bringing Thompson in today as he doesn't look to be a realistic option for the Raps at the moment regarding the fifth pick, but aside from that, he makes for yet another interesting sparring partner. His size, length and motor down low will provide a tough test for both Leonard and Morris, and the individual shooting drills will help the club determine just how much he's improved in this area.

Remember, for all of Thompson's upside as a defensive force and offensive rebounder, he shot under 50 per cent from the free-throw line last season and has a ways to go in terms of being a threat on O.

4.  Tobias Harris - F - Tennessee -Now here's an interesting name that we haven't discussed yet.

Harris had a very nice season for the Vols last year despite all the turmoil the club went through.  He averaged 15 points and seven rebounds, and posted a PER of nearly 24, showing that he was no one-dimensional player.

He can play the 3 or 4 thanks to his length (6-11 wingspan despite only 6-8 height), and his basketball IQ and passing ability make him a threat every time he touches the ball.  He reminds me a bit of a better shooting Terrence Williams in the way he can control a game without even scoring, however his superior size (and attitude) makes him a more intriguing prospect I'd argue.

He's not an option for Toronto at 5, but I feel quite confident in saying that this is the type of player who could have a long NBA career, filling a key role for a team similar to say a Jared Dudley.

Again, another good add to this workout by the Raps.

5.  Corey Joseph - G - Texas - The second of this session's Canadian contingent, Joseph had a terrific freshman season for the Longhorns averaging 10 points, nearly 4 rebounds and 3 assists a game, showcasing his all-around abilities.

He's a lethal gunner from long range (he connected on 41% of his 3's last year), and can play both the 1 and the 2.

However which position is he in the NBA?

At 6-3 he's on the short side for the 2 spot, even with a solid 6-6 wingspan, and he's got a ways to go before proving he can run a team.

That being said, I believe there's a home for him in the NBA next year, even if it's via a second-round selection. He's one of the quickest players in his draft class who can finish at the rim with the best of them, a very solid defender, and I could see Joseph being a sparkplug off an NBA bench in the same vein as Juan Jose Barea.

However without a second round pick, and already possessing a more potent combo guard option in Jerryd Bayless, I don't see him finding a way onto the Raps next week.  Joseph's addition to this workout seems to be based more on his nationality than need, which brings us to...

6.  Demontez Stitt - G - Clemson - Hmmm.

Off the top Stitt looks like an inclusion in this session as a match-up for Joseph, and to facilitate some 3 on 3 action.

He' s no slouch though.

The four-year Clemson alum posted similar totals to Joseph last year averaging 14.5 points, 4.3 rebounds and 3.3 assists.  He also hit some big shots against my Blue Devils in ACC action, so I know very well that he can compete with upper tier guards.

However there's not the same upside with Stitt as Joseph, and to get a shot in the L, Demontez will probably have to fight through the D League route.

Commentary:  Now we're talking.  The Kemba Walker and Brandon Knight sessions were a disappointment in that they didn't go mano-a-mano, but today there should be some nice battles between these six.  I'd argue that three of them are playing for lottery positioning, so that alone should make this very competitive.  Add in the Canadian connection and that Corey and Tristan will want to put on a good show for the home team, and this looks like a nice little session.

But to me this is still all about Leonard.  I'm hoping he shows off the motor and effort we saw during his college career, and some nice offensive play would be a bonus.  If Knight gets chosen before Toronto picks then Leonard is going to be tough to pass on, and he needs to show the Raps' brass just why he should be their man, if that situation unfolds.

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Great stuff

I am looking forward to hearing about this workout. Hopefully, you guys will get a decent look at what goes on.

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 9:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Think the crew got a better look today. I couldn’t attend, but Ray and one of our interns, Sean, took things in. Saw some photos and vid on Twitter already.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 15, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

We need size

forget guards. wghat the raps need is size and rebounding.

by Jeffrey Thompson on Jun 15, 2011 9:18 AM EDT reply actions  

i agree but

if the size and rebounding options are either off the board or subpar when what do you do> pick a shitty big just bec you need size>

If Kahwi is the there and we think he’s the best player available then u gotta pick him regardless of how many wings we have. Plus, if we don’t retain Sonny Weems we’ve basically got DD at SG and maybe Barbosa if he comes back so picking another SG_SF is not a bad thing, especially if he has defensive upside.

by Member29 on Jun 15, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Especially if Barbosa is moved – a DD, JJ, and Kawhi wing rotation would be very intriguing. Would need to develop an offensive system to hide their shooting, but would be a good young rotation with lots of upside.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bring back Hopla

If the Raptors do draft Leonard then maybe they could get all three of those guys and maybe Weems to spend the summer living Hopla’s basement and shooting 1000 3’s a day (or whatever it is that Hopla does to get guys to actually hit their shots).

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, they still have Alex English – he’s not too shabby a shooting coach, and I credit him (as well as a few other assistants) with the big strides a few Raps players have made this past year (eg: Amir, Demar) in their jump shot technique.

Although I totally agree – Hopla is always a good guy to have around.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Based on the interviews conducted by RHQ, I get the impression that Eric Hughes was involved a lot with DeMar and his improved jump shot.

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, yes. I couldn’t remember his name, so I copped out with ‘and a few other assistants.’ Yes, him too.

Speaking of which, I think English is the only one of the main assistant coaches still under contract – am I wrong? And are any of the background guys, like Hughes or the strength and conditioning guys sticking around as well? With Triano out, I guess its all up in the air.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Carlesimo is the only assistant whose contract runs beyond this off-season. I think English, Hughes, Alvin all have contracts that run until the end of this season (end of June?)

Personally, I would like to see the Raptors keep Hughes and Alvin and have them continue their work with the young guys. English seems to have done a good job with the bigs on the offensive side of the ball, but judging by the Raptors interior defense he is either not involved in that or not an effective interior defense coach. I wouldn’t mind bringing English back, but I wonder if he is getting a bit sick of the organization at this point. I believe he has head coaching ambitions and he may feel that to get there he needs move on.

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

True – I did – but even now, we don’t know when he’ll be ready to contribute. Another interesting thing to consider.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rep'ing TO

We have often lamented around here that Toronto is not a desirable NBA destination. It would be great to see some Toronto area ballers like Thompson, Joseph, Kabongo make it to the NBA and succeed. I am sure it would not suddenly turn Toronto into a top FA destination, but it couldn’t hurt the city’s reputation among NBAers if it starts to be seen as a place that produces legit big league talent.

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 9:20 AM EDT reply actions  

True enough – who knows? Maybe one day a promising young star will walk away from his team to JOIN the Raps, rather than the other way around? A boy can dream…

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting idea…I think under that scenario, the Raps missing out on a PG at 5 this year, and grabbing perhaps Myck Kabongo next year would be ideal.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 15, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will be interesting to see if Leonard separates himself from the rest of them – he is supposed to be a top 10 pick, while the others are late lotto picks if that (except possibly Thompson, he may sneak up).

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

well as of yesterday scouts made a new mock draft.

They have thompson going 6th overall now and Leonard falling all the way to 13th to the suns.

by Jt Malley on Jun 15, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds like Sean and Ray got some good stuff, looking forward to seeing it in the morning.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 15, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kawhi Leonard

I think his candidacy for the 5th pick will be determined by how well he shoots the rock. There have been rumours of an expanding and improving catch and shoot game. If this really turns out to be true, I think he’d make a great pick for the Raptors. Like it or not, the Raptors have suddenly gone from a strictly jumpshooting team to one with absolutely no shooting ability. Kawhi’s selection would be much more defensible if his shot develops as we hear it has.

by HDave on Jun 15, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions  

Completely agree HDave – the Raps need guys who can stretch the floor and Leonard definitely isn’t of that ilk. But if they can perhaps address that need in other ways, maybe via Free Agency or even the improvement of say a DeMar, then it’s hard to pass on a guy like Leonard and his physical skills.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 15, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Saw That

and it is an interesting idea.

I would prefer that they trade him but if they do not intend to trade him then I would be okay with the Raptors management trying that.

I think his defense on the perimeter would suck but who knows unless you give it a try.

However if the Raptors draft Kanter then I say if the Raptors can’t trade Barney then just have him come off the bench and play him wherever on defense. I don’t think it would matter much. His defense would probably still suck regardless of where he plays on defense. Some places it might suck worse than other places but we will never know unless Raptors management tries it.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was that article written in 2011 or 2006?

Because the “Bargnani at SF” experiment has been tried at least twice (in the Playoffs against Orlando and earlier for a long stretch in the regular season) and BOTH times it was an abject failure.So if Colangelo wants to try this again to save his piazano, we can say “no we’ve seen this movie before, and the problem is not what position Bargnani plays, the problem is BARGNANI”.

by MAS11 on Jun 15, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree – seem to recall Bargs being an even bigger liability at the 3. Would be interesting to see what the win scores are for him at that spot.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 15, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who Knows

What if the new coach says to Bargnani.

If you want to start it will be at SF and if you don;t play adequate defense I am going to sit your ass down on the sidelines on a chair covered in Super Glue.

Would that inspire him to work harder on defense?

Is the glass half full or almost completely empty?

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are both wrong. he has been inspired! inspired to not play defense.

by McGateway on Jun 17, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

i am inspired by his desire to not play defence...

although what I am inspired to do is …upon reflection …and general probability…. illegal …..

that is why i will plead ‘self defence’….. I hope the DA will agree that its ALL about defence….

'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'

by Jenge on Jun 18, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Based on the 2008-09 regular season, where Bargnani played 8% of his minutes at SF, 78% at PF and 14% at C, his stats are as follows:

Net Points by team per 48 minutes:
SF: -9.0 Significantly worse at SF
PF: -4.3
C: -5.3

Net points Bargnani vs counterpart per 48:
SF: -7.2 Significantly worse at SF
PF: +2.3
C: +6.7

Net PER Bargnani vs counterpart:
SF: -9.8 Significantly worse at SF
PF: -1.4
C: -0.7

http://www.82games.com/0809/08TOR14.HTM#bypos

The previous playoffs (2007-08) against Orlando was even more disastrous at SF (played 17% at SF, 83% at PF – he didn’t play significant minutes at C):

Net points by team per 48:
SF: -43.3 Significantly worse at SF
PF: -16.0

Net points Bargnani vs counterpart per 48:
SF: -21.6 Significantly worse at SF
PF: -5.7

Net PER Bargnani vs counterpart:
SF: -26.4 Significantly worse at SF
PF: -15.6

http://www.82games.com/0708/playoffs/07TOR10C.HTM

I don’t have WS or WP data by position, unfortunately. Anyway, with the net PER and points, rebounding and scoring efficiency for both sides is taken into account, as well as the overall team effect. Gives a pretty good idea of how awesome Bargnani is at SF.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 16, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent breakdown.

So the numbers back up the obvious. Surprise, surprise…

by MAS11 on Jun 16, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair you still need a little perspective here as when he was rolling along the SF position he was in his first 3 years and was an afterthought offensively. Not saying it would make a difference now but considering the level of talent at the 3 offensively it shouldn’t surprise anyone that he was routinely out played.

by McGateway on Jun 17, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just to clarify

I was joking :)

should have written BARGS!

by Shadowseeker on Jun 16, 2011 5:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Franchise

I’m disappointed.

“the Raptors’ braintrust will be taking a good look at today is how he shoots the ball in live action and individual drills”

no way they take a look at that stuff. Since when is this organization known for concentrating on offensive skills and shooting? Simply put, if you think this team is going to consider someone as an asset based on their ability to score the ball, you haven’t been paying attention for the past 5 years. You don’t nearly break defensive records like the Raps do by accident!

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 15, 2011 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

I think that

Leonard has tons of defensive potential but if he can’t even hit the side of the rim it doesn’t make sense picking him at 5. Yes we need to improve defensively but not with guys who have absolutely no offensive capeability. Kawhi has to show the staff that he can do something, anthing on offensive to earn that 5th pick. We already know he has excellent tools to play defence in the NBA.

by Member29 on Jun 15, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly I want to stop the "temporary patches" we are using to bandaid our problems...

We have to set a standard for what we want from each position and fulfill that standard…

Not just put guys on the roster because they’re a slightly better option than what we have now…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

all sarcasm aside

I agree. This team has way to many 1 dimensional players (Bargnani, Derozan, Reggie, Dorsey). Those who are mutli dimensional but are not, or unlikely to be, ‘great’ players (Amir, Ed, JJ, Bayless) or they have ATLEAST one serious weakness of some sort (Jose, Wright, Kleiza)

As Mik said, their has been too many bandaid solutions along the way. Any player they draft this year needs to turn out to:

1) be great at few things and do everything else adequately

2) be so dominant in a few areas that any weaknesses they have becomes minor issues

3) can contribute in every aspect of the game, and while they may not be great at any one thing, they don’t completely suck at something else.

Reality of this draft is that, even at #5, the third option is probably the most likely. Which is fine, just doesn’t make this coming season that exciting.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 15, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amir Contributes In Every Aspect Of The Game

including making fouls. LOL

Seriously you can go to Yahoo Sports and check out that Amir averaged over 12 PPG in about 29 minutes per game in Jan Feb before he got injured in March.

What he will do after the surgery I haven’t a clue but we know that he has been able to score enough when healthy.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bowen made a career out of not hitting anything as did the Worm. Although Bowen did get better at hitting the 3 later in his career if I recall.

by McGateway on Jun 17, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

When Bowen started hitting the 3 at a decent rate is when he went from being a role-player/thug to being a semi-star.

by DW19 on Jun 17, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Should have re-worded this a bit, apologies.

The Raps aren’t drafting anyone on scoring alone, no. But the drills they put prospects through are there for a reason, and with a guy like Leonard, they’ll want to see him shooting live, to get an idea of his form etc.

This is especially the case as it’s an area he’s been rumoured to have worked on a lot of late.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 15, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry franchise

that was pure sarcasm through and through.

I did know what you meant. I guess I don’t complain about the lack of defense enough!

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 15, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Franchise: I'm intrigued by Kawhi Leonard's desire for grabbing Offensive Rebounds... Same thing goes with Biyombo if you ever get the chance...

Can you ask him where he gets the motivation… and what is his philosophy about it…?

Thanks!

'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'

by Jenge on Jun 15, 2011 1:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I didn’t get a chance to head down today, was stuck at Pearson, but great question. Love to try and get him one-on-one prior to draft day.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 15, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Consensus Mock Draft Update Today

Most Common Picks for top five drafting teams among the sites polled

Cavs – Irving 12
T-Wolves – Williams 12
Jazz – Knight 8
Cavs – Kanter 6 and Valanciunas 6
Toronto – Walker 6

Note: Three Mock Drafts have the Raptors taking Vesely at #5

Consensus Picks

Cavs – Irving
T-Wolves – Williams
Jazz – Knight
Cavs – Kanter
Raptors – Valanciunas

Observations

1. All twelve Mock Drafts have Irving going #1 and Willaims #2
2. Knight is a strong favorite to go #3 to the Jazz
3. Cavs will draft a Big with the #4, either Kanter or Valanciunas

So according to these pundits most likely for the Raptors it will come down to whoever is left over between Kanter and Valanciunas, or Walker or Vesely.with an outside chance that Knight will fall to #5 and the Raptors will pick him. Two of the twelve Mock Drafts have Knight going as low as #7

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/05/18/consensus.mock.draft/index.html

Buddahfan’s Updated Big Board for the Raptors in the order of what I believe will be the most likely pick for the Raptors at #5 based upon the current Mock Drafts and my analysis of them.

1. Kanter
2. Valanciunas
3. Walker
4. Vesely
5. Knight

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey Buddha did you catch my Amir link?

Amir

Selected quote:

While playing through injuries, Johnson was still able to put up a solid 14.9 points, 10.0 rebounds and 1.7 assists per 40 minutes, to go along with 2.3 blocks per 48 minutes and a .568 field goal percentage. Furthermore, if he had taken 19 more field goal attempts, he would have qualified for the official NBA rankings and would have had the fourth-best field goal percentage in the league last year.

What does this tell us?

First of all, it tells me that if Johnson was to play about 35 minutes per game—which is roughly how many minutes Andrea Bargnani and DeRozan played per game last season—he would have averaged very close to a double-double per game with a field goal percentage around .560.

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Raptors Taking Leonard At #5 Seems To Me To Be A Long Shot At This Time

IMO in the best of all 2011 Draft worlds the Raptors do get a second top ten pick and wind up drafting either Kanter or Valanciunas along with either Knight or Leonard.

Under this scenario I would prefer

Kanter and Leonard
Valanciunas and Leonard.

I would be happy with the Raptors draft if either of two scenarios happened.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The interesting scenario described in this one is the Raptors grabbing Knight and Leonard falling to the Rockets at #14. If Leonard starts to slide it would be worth BC’s while to try and get that second lottery pick in order to grab him. It would be a lot easier to get something like the #12 pick rather than something in the top 10 or top 5.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/06/14/mock-draft-part-iii/index.html

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are a few picks I wouldn’t mind with another lottery pick – Leonard, as well as Singleton especially.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I like Singleton, too. His strengths are perimeter defence and 3-pt shooting. That is almost the perfect skill-set for a Raptors SF.

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leonard is a better rebounder and plays with a lot intensity, which I like. Singleton was a better outside shooter in college, but that is an area where Leonard might improve. I like both.

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Leonard Has Something That Singleton Doesn't Have

Leonard is from So. CA. The best basketball players in the world overall come from So. CA. I live in So. CA.

Leonard is my choice over Singletlon

Sometimes you just got to go with heart and this is one of those times.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

With Regard To Leonard vs Singleton Got To Go With My Heart

Got to go with my heart on this one. I want to see the Raptors eventually put five guys from So. CA on the court at one time and of course win. LOL

No general rule here with regard to location vs ability other than my fantasy above.

Besides I think Leonard has as much if more upside than Singleton. JMO

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Feel the same way in the Leonard versus Singleton debate; Singleton has the attributes the Raps need now, Leonard has more upside and versatility.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 15, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that long distance shooting would do a lot to help a wing rotation including DD and JJ.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Would Be Okay with Jimmer As The Raptors Second Pick in Rd #1

In fact I wouldn’t be that all unhappy initially if it was Jimmer rather than Leonard with the Raptors second first round pick if they get one.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t doubt that he has a chance to be a quality prospect, but I just don’t think he fits the direction this team has been taking of late. Of course, I’ll be pulling for whoever the Raps pick.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Don't Know What Direction You Are Talking About?

Going more athletic?

Check out the lane agility and sprint results comparisons from the Chicago Combine. Jimmer actually did as good if not better than Knight and Walker.

Jimmer 10.42 and 3.21
Knight 10.74 and 3.07
Walker 10.87 and 3.16

Jimmer is not as fast but he did better in the lane agility test which is what you want from a Guard.

http://bit.ly/mFzp3a

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he’s refering to BC to BC allegedly waking up from his head injury induced coma and aquiring players that do something other than hit set jump shots…

Oh and Kemba Walker would take Jimmer’s “lane agility” and shove down his throat while he ripped his heart out if the game was on the line! LOL
But seriously, there are certain things you can’t measure in testing.

by MAS11 on Jun 15, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

He Didn't Do That Today When They Went Head To Head

They played even.

Link on this thread or you can probably still find it in Yahoo Sports

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously How High Can Nash Jump?

Not very high but from what I have seen of Nash playing his lane agility has appeared to me to be among the best in the league. or at least was when he was younger.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Barea Didn't Even Average 10 PPG in the Playoffs

He averaged 8.9 PPG with a WS/48 of just .100 which is average.

Don’t know if he did better against the Heat, but seriously the Heat don’t have a PG that is even average.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can't even recognize when someone is on your side?

Shall I make it super simple?

Barea is not the fastest player on the court, but his agility and lateral quickness, often got him wide open in the lane, and easily around defenders…

Which is what you are trying to offer as valuable about Jimmer, and Nash…

I can’t believe you’re that thick…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speed Is Great On Offense When You Have A Clear Path To The Basket

However, except for breakaways you rarely have a clear path to the rim as a Guard.

IMO lane agility is much important to a Guard then just straight ahead speed.

On defense you also want Guards with high lane agility because a big part of the lane agility test is going from side to side.

Jumping ability as a guard is really not that important especially as a PG as long as you have decent height for a PG which Jimmer has.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks - The Results Don't Surprise Me

Jimmer wasn’t outplayed by Walker. Definitely held his own, according to four other players involved in workout.

See link above.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can Freddette be a PG?

That would be my concern. As a shooter off the bench he would be great, but I don’t see him as a starting SG or PG. Maybe I am wrong about that.

Based on their college careers, both Knight and Walker seem more likely to successfully transition to the PG spot than Freddette.

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

DeMar’s ball-handling has improved, but he’s got a long way to go before he starts beating the press and running pick and rolls.

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe he was a Syracuse fan or something.

by DW19 on Jun 15, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, be a fan of whoever you like...

But I hope it doesn’t show what he values / regards to be a “great” basketball player…

Just that one statement would make me choose Singleton (IF they were testing equally)…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Valancinas Is A Fan of Howard

So does that one statement make you pick him?

You can find it in an interview if you Google for it.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I had a choice between J.V. and someone else who is very comparable... like Leonard and Singleton are...

Then who they aspired to play like would make a huge difference…

No different than if J.V. said he thought Bargnani was his favourite player… you would instantly question his basketball IQ and future aspirations…

So like I said before you twisted it around… IF TWO PLAYERS WERE TESTING EQUALLY, A STATEMENT LIKE THAT COULD VERY WELL BE A DECIDING FACTOR…

If there were another J V in the running and one said his idol was Howard and the others was Bargnani, what would you do?

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

IMO I Don'T Buy This Whole Thingy of Favorite

player as an indication of how good someone can become.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Find Me Someone

today in the NBA or among the draft prospects that patterns their game after Bargnani’s. LOL

The fact that Leonard likes Melo’s game does not mean that Leonard can’t play defense. The scouring reports say that defense and rebounding are his strongest points.

The fact that Leonard likes Melo’s game means that Leonard is serious about wanting to become a better scorer and shooter than he is. I think that is a positive.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Find Me Someone

today in the NBA or among the draft prospects that patterns their game after Bargnani’s. LOL

The fact that Leonard likes Melo’s game does not mean that Leonard can’t play defense. The scouring reports say that defense and rebounding are his strongest points.

The fact that Leonard likes Melo’s game means that Leonard is serious about wanting to become a better scorer and shooter than he is. I think that is a positive.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

If that's how you interpret it, that's great and makes sense...

I can at least admit to seeing where you are getting your opinion…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

What players the players like..

.. means jack sh%$ in my opinion. Kemba Walker’s favourite player is Carmelo Anthony as well.. BUT HE’s A POINT GUARD.. remember.. these kids are fans of the game also.. the idea of “modelling” people’s games is sort of a joke. Seriously now, modelling their games?? pppplease. Even Kemba at an interview responded to reporters question about modelling his game as something along the lines of " No one.. just play ball and be who I am".. you can be inspired to to learn little moves from different guys but modelling games after players is a stretch. each player has their own strengths and weaknesses and their own physical tools.

by ColtKing on Jun 16, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

That Is What I Posted

That was the point of the whole discussion.

I said having a favorite player doesn’t mean that you model your game after them.

Leonard said that Melo was his favorite player and not that he modeled his game after him.

by Buddahfan on Jun 16, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

he should have said Brian Cardinall...

'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'

by Jenge on Jun 18, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT -The Raptors Were 6 - 6 Last Season When Bargnani Out Played His Opponent

Unfortunately he was outplayed by his opponent 35 times and the Raptors were only 6 – 29 when he was outplayed by his opponent

What is interesting is that Amir outplayed his opponent 15 – 12 at PF. Not too bad considering his injuries and lack of experience.

All regular rotation players

Above .500 vs Their Opponents in 25 mpg or more
-———————————————————————————————————
Evans 8 – 4 at PF
Amir 15 – 12 at PF (2 – 4 vs Centers)
Jose 28 – 25
Bayless 9 – 8

Below .500 vs Their Opponents in 25 mpg or more
-———————————————————————————————————
Kleiza 8 – 10
James Johnson 6 – 8
Davis 9 – 13
DeRozan 25 – 40
Barbosa 8 – 17
Weems 6 – 16
Bargnani 12 – 35

http://bit.ly/iMxL8b

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea, this was posted a little while back... interesting to see that as good as Amir is, when played against Centers he gets outperformed, but against other PF's he dominates...

Hmmm, so maybe there is a difference between the 4 and 5 spot after all huh?

Maybe that phenomenon only applies to Amir, yea, we’ll ignore that for everybody else that plays the game…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually I Posted It But I Didn't Have The Breakout By Position At That Time

One more very interesting stat though I have no explanation for it is.

When Amir has more blocks than his opponent and fewer turnovers the Raptors were 6 – 13 and 6 – 12 respectively but when Amir outscores or outrebounds his opponent the Raptors were only 1 – 10 and 3 – 12 respectively.

http://bit.ly/lL3UMP

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

And yet, I'M the one who has no idea what I'm talking about...
You Really Got To Get Off This #4 and #5 Thingy

Horford who people k
eep saying is playing out of position has already been an all-star player twice in his first four seasons.

Talent rises to the top just like cream.

I guess Amir has no talent, when playing against centers…

So I guess last season must have been anold-fashioned season for Amir huh?

You Are Living An Old Fashioned World

The only reason that people still differentiate between the #4 and the #5 is because of the 7 foot divide. However, for the most part there is no differentiation between the #4 and the #5 in the NBA.

Hmmm…

I think you have a hole in your screen door.

LMAO

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't Know What You Are Talking About?

The bottom line is what I said before. I like the potential of the Amir-Ed-Enes rotation as a group.

Amir is primarily a PF. Enes because of his weight is primarily a Center. Ed in my opinion will be able to play Center and PF when gains weight and muscle.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay so just to be clear, out of all the things you say, how is one to tell what matters or not?

Which of the “things you said before” are the actual things that you meant then…

Jeebuz man, we need to know what is jibberish or not so as to avoid these lengthy arguments in the first place!

Maybe for the next little bit you only say the things that are true and relevant and we see if that works better…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

No One Is Forcing You To Respond To My Posts

As to what my latest and greatest opinion is on a subject. Well you are just going to have read all my posts to figure it out. That is after all how I figure it out. LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

WAIT A SECOND!
As to what my latest and greatest opinion is on a subject. Well you are just going to have read all my posts to figure it out. That is after all how I figure it out. LOL

So you have no idea what your actual opinion is of a subject until after you’ve typed it all out and re-read it?

That is a medical phenomenon that people may want to do studies on…

Future generations might read about you in textbooks!

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

People Hopefully Review and If Needed

change their opinion as new information becomes available.

Any doctor who is incapable of changing her/his opinion when new information strongly indicates that they should is not a doctor that I would want and I dare say most people would not want.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

When Leonard Was Asked Who He Would Compare His Game To

He said some say G. Wallace and some same Artest however I don’t compare myself to anyone.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 6:16 PM EDT reply actions  

For the record, if someone tells you "I've been told I play like Gerald Wallace", but that they resist that saying "I don't compare myself to anyone" and then state that their favourite player is Carmelo Anthony, it logically follows...

that they are more inclined to try and emulate their preferred player over their resistant comparison…

Now, if you think that only means he wants to be a more dynamic scorer than he currently is, I would ask him to clarify that, and IF that were the case then it hurts my opinion of him not at all… if it means that he wishes he could focus just on scoring and slack on defense in his career, yikes…

So it has some bearing, at least in deserving to be investigated further…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You IMO Are Starting To Sound Like A. Weiner Just Saying

Kobe’s favorite player according to at least one person is Oscare Schmidt. Schmidt never even played in the NBA.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080323234958AA9F0uC

More here on why Kobe liked Oscar Schmidt’s game.

http://bit.ly/lOyZXE

Oscar Daniel Bezerra Schmidt (born February 16, 1958) is a retired Brazilian basketball player. He is also known as Oscar Schmidt Bezerra in Spain, where he played for Fórum Valladolid for the 1993-94 and 1994-95 seasons, and simply Oscar or Mão Santa (Holy Hand) in his homeland. At his peak, he was 2.05 m (6 ft 8 in) tall and weighed 102 kg (225 lb). He was born in Natal, Rio Grande do Norte, Brazil.

He scored 49,702 points in his career on a professional level, a record

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Oscar_Schmidt

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, what you're saying is...

Kobe Bryant, who developed himself into one of the game’s greatest scorers, and a dedicated shot-chucker, systems be damned…Idolized a guy who was best known for how many points he put on the board…

Wow, seems like EXACTLY what my point was, who a player calls their favourite is likely how they wish to model their own game…

Dang nab it, who’d have thunk?

You seem really good at proving my points for me, maybe I should always argue with you and just sit back and let you talk until you prove me right every time…

It’s very satisfying…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oscar Schmidt Never Played In The NBA

Kobe has won a number of defensive awards.

I doubt that Kobe has patterned his defensive attitude after Oscar Schmidt defense, though I don’t know. However, if I was a betting man I would bet that Kobe has not patterned his defense and defensive attitude after Schmidt.

Same with Leonard. I think he is more interested in becoming like G. Wallace than he is Carmelo given the comparison that a number of people make between Leonard and Wallace. I have not heard of anyone other than maybe you that is attempting to compare Leonard to Melo.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

You've still never heard of anyone comparing Leonard to Melo, because I never did...

I said it would worry me if Melo was his picture of the perfect NBA player who he hoped to be just like…

Hence his comment deserves deeper investigation…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 16, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dwight Howard - "If There Is A Lockout I'll Go To Canada.."

http://bit.ly/mPNwhR

or you can go to HoopsHype NBA Rumors Today to read it like I did in English LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 8:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I wonder where Nash and Dalembert will go then? Siberia to play with Hoffa?

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 15, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

HA!

Laughed out loud when I read this. Mainly becuse the old cliche of being forced to – enter vocation/occupation/job/skill etc.- in Siberia ACTUALLY applies to Hoffa. He might just actually be playing in a Siberian league right now… LOL

by MAS11 on Jun 15, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

re: Araujo

Played one year for Spartak St.Petersburg in Russian League.

St. Petersburg is the second most populous city in Russia. It is also the most northern most city in the world, with more then one million inhabitants.

If one disregarded the large population, the Canadian equivalent would be…Edmonton?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg

by Yardly on Jun 16, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was riffing off of the Basketball Siberia point, some northernmost place that people don’t want to go to.
Montreal makes more sense, especially due to the immense history of the city. I figured I’d pick the biggest most northernmost Cdn city to make a link based on geography.

And since I doubt anyone else will read this comment, I was pretty surprised that Russia would choose to develop a city that was that far north. In Canada every major city except for Edmonton is pretty close to the border with the US. Curious.

No offense attended to any St. Petersburgians that read this blog.

by Yardly on Jun 19, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kim Kardashian and Kris Humphries' wedding registry: More money, fewer problems?

By Amina Khan, Los Angeles Times / For the Booster Shots blog

June 15, 2011, 1:43 p.m.
The wedding registry for Kim Kardashian and NBA player Kris Humphries is out, and money is of no object.

Among the requested goodies for what’s sure to be a no-holds-barred wedding? A $6,500 Tourbillon black vase and a $1,115 Lalique New York-style clock, a source tells People. Even the ice tongs approach haute-couture prices, ringing in at $195.

cont on link

http://lat.ms/muIOEP

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 8:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Top 5 Mistakes GMs Make At The Draft

1. Draft Bargnani #1
2. Bo Back to #1

  1. – Drafting players with a questions about character
  2. – Drafting players with histories of injury
  3. – Drafting for potential rather than experience
  4. – Trying to find the next big international success
  5. – Drafting big

http://bit.ly/l7xHuv

If the Raptors want to make any of those mistakes it sound Kemba is the guy for them.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 10:27 PM EDT reply actions  

My #1 Pick In The Draft Is Irving or Kanter but Most Likely Irving.

I do think that the author of the article has some good points as a general rule.

However, all of his five points are based upon one theory.

It is a mistake to take a risk in the draft.

I wonder how many risks the author takes in his personal life. The article smacks of an author projecting out their psychological inadequacies on the draft.

I posted it because I thought it was a perfect example of how a professional sports writer can have their views distorted by their own personal issues. Not saying that that is the case here, but that is how I see it.

We all project our own personal experiences into the things that we say, write and do and what we think is good and bad, better and worst etc.

The author seems to be saying that once a bad apple always a bad apple, once injured always injured etc.

I wonder what he says about someone who had spend time in prison? Most likely not anything very favorable regardless of the rest of their accomplishments. Given the choice he would hire the more mediocre employee rather than a far superior one who had previously had a run in with the law. That is a sign of a not very trusting person who likes to go through a life of mediocrity rather than take the risk needed to rise to greater success.

Ray Kroc was a two bit food equipment salesman an alcoholic and basic failure his whole life until he started McDonalds when he was 59 years old. I doubt that the other early investors in McDonalds thought like this writer.

I wonder if the writer would say that one of the top five mistakes a website makes is to hire a writer who once was caught plagiarizing something back in grade school.

by Buddahfan on Jun 16, 2011 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

How The Raptors Could Wind Up Drafting D. Williams

1. Irivng
2. Sources: Wolves High on Kanter

Posted: 6/15/2011 6:17:00 AM
Source: Sam Amick of Sports Illustrated

Unless the Wolves can find an attractive package for their pick, it still looks like they will be adding (Derrick) Williams despite the obvious duplication of the Arizona star and forward Michael Beasley. That being said, sources say they have a real interest in (Enes) Kanter and are intrigued with the possibility of putting him next to power forward Kevin Love on the front line. As has been written or said at least a few hundred times in recent weeks, the Wolves are considering trading this pick and their No. 20 as well. If they stay here and take Williams, trading Beasley becomes the eventual play as they are very high on second-year swingman Wesley Johnson.

http://bit.ly/mns2qb

What if the Wolves can’t make deal but just want Kanter rather than Williams then Williams falls to at least #3

3. Knight
4. Valanciunas
5. Williams

A long shot for sure but I wouldn’t discount it given the T-Wolves apparent strong interest in Kanter.

by Buddahfan on Jun 16, 2011 1:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Just read an article where Byron Scott says they still can't decide who they want more at #1...

Irving or Williams…

That being the case, there is no way they pass on Williams if he is still undrafted at 4…

Link

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 16, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Cavs Want A Big Man

ISTM if the Cavs think that the T-Wolves will draft Kanter at #2 if available then the Cavs will draft him #1 if they prefer him over Valanciunas because they want a Big man and can always draft a guard at #4. I don’t see the Cavs taking both Kanter and Valanciunas.

Then

1. Kanter
2. Williams
3. Irving or Knight
4. Knight or Irving
5. Valanciunas or Leonard

ISTM if the Cavs think the T-Wolves want Kanter but the Cavs prefer Valanciunas over Kanter.

1. Irving
2. Kanter
3. Knight
4. Valanciunas
5. Williams

by Buddahfan on Jun 16, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

In The First Scenario Above I Think Walker and Vesely

could also be a possible pick for the Raptors based upon what the Mocks are saying. However, personally I just don’t see the Raptors taking either of those players and leaving both Valanciunas and Leonard on the board.

The Raptors two weakest spots are Center and SG. The numbers clearly show that all of the Raptors SGs; i.e. DeRozan, Weems and Barbosa were outplayed by their opponents more than any of the other regular rotation players except for Bargnani.

Despite what most others say I don’t see the Raptors Lead/Point Guard as in need of upgrading through a change in personnel

The Raptors need two things more than anything else. They need a big who can defend the paint and rebound and they need three point shooting. Walker and Vesely do not fill either of those needs, Valanciounas and Knight or Jimmer may fill one of them.

The Mockers may like Walker and Vesely as a possible pick for the Raptors, I do not like either one.

Leonard would probably fill a more general need for the Raptors, adding a non-Big who can defend and rebound.

by Buddahfan on Jun 16, 2011 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

see here

http://bit.ly/iyfOoR

and

here

http://bit.ly/lt0LYS

Seriously you are probably correct. In fact I would put the odds of it happening at very long but you never know. Stranger things have happened.

by Buddahfan on Jun 16, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets Go With The Two Options

Option #1
-————————————-
Cavs take Irving
T-Wolves take either Kanter or Williams
Jazz take Knight
Cavs take either Valanciunas Kanter or Williams.

Raptors then take either Kanter, Valanciunas or Williams whoever among the three is not taken in the first four picks.

Option #2
-——————————-
Cavs take Williams
T-Wolves take Kanter
Jazz take Irving
Cavs take Valanciunas or Knight
Raptors take – Valanciunas or Knight whichever one the Cavs don’t take at #4 with Leonard, Waker and Vesely being long shots for the Raptors to take at #5.

So now based upon the latest information it looks like the Raptors most likely will draft either Kanter, Williams, Valanciunas or Knight. ISTM that based upon the latest information that I have seen Williams has now become a possible pick for the Raptors at #5. However, I will not put any odds on it happening or not happening. LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 16, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

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