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The Raptors HQ 2011 NBA Draft Board - Version 1.0


With the NBA Draft now just over a week away, team HQ gives their take on who the Raptors should select.

Star-divide

This is a first for me.

In the six years we've been running this site, we've always had our HQ draft board up and running well before the draft, months before even.

This year we posted it briefly, then took it down once post-lottery as it became clear that Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams were not going to become members of the team.

But why didn't we post it again, simply removing those two players?

The truth is, there simply wasn't much consensus as to who the next top five were, and the lack of information concerning many of the most bandied-about names, wasn't helping matters.

For instance, I can talk Kemba Walker or Kawhi Leonard's strengths and weaknesses all day.

But Bismack Biyombo?

Jan Vesely?

Enes Kanter?

Not so much.

On top of this, in previous years there were always players I had a huge affinity for, even if they weren't necessarily realistic options for the Raps at their pick.  Danny Granger, Rajon Rondo, Tyrus Thomas, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Wes Matthews, Jerel McNeal and Evan Turner are all examples of this.

In 2011?

It's been a struggle.

Besides a few names like Chris Singleton and Marshon Brooks in the first round, and Nolan Smith and Jajuan Johnson in the second, there just aren't many players I'm extremely gaga over.

The same has been true for my counterparts here at the site, so it's simply taken a boatload of previews, discussion and analysis before any of us is ready to talk favourite options come June 23rd.

Are we ready now?

Pretty much, but instead of having one final list of the top options we want the team to consider next week, I thought I'd check in with a bunch of our writers, and get their individual takes first.

What follows then is the top three draft routes each writer is hoping the Raptors take, assuming Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams are long gone...

1.  Brandon Knight

Knight was one of those players whose stock significantly increased during the NCAA tournament as he led Kentucky to a berth in the Final Four. His NBA position is still to be determined but if the Raptors were to draft him he would certainly play at the 1. He has all of the tools to be a great defensive player as his size, speed, wingspan and overall intensity should serve him well. I don't expect him to be on the board by the time Toronto's pick rolls around but there have been bigger surprises. If he's still up there than he's a no brainer.

2.  Kemba Walker

Kemba Walker will likely be available with the 5th pick and if Knight is off the board I think he's the next obvious choice. First of all, I understand that he's undersized and has been cast as a shoot-first PG, so essentially Leandro Barbosa. If Barbosa can be dealt for another piece than Walker would be able to provide the Raptors their best scoring PG since Mighty Mouse. Walker would bring a noticeable swagger and leadership skills to a dysfunctional team lacking in both of those departments. Toronto also lacks a "closer", someone who the Dinos can run plays for late in a close game . Walker would be a formidable closer and he has shown he can step up in clutch situations.

3.  Enes Kanter

He didn't come to Toronto for a workout but that doesn't mean that the team shouldn't have a look at Kanter if he's available. For me, this pick hinges on the ability to trade Andrea Bargnani. With Ed Davis and Amir Johnson the club has a great Power Forward tandem going forward, and if Bargnani moved to the 4 than it would create an unnecessary logjam. Kanter is blessed with the strength and size to bang in the paint but also soft hands that will allow him to control the ball and be somewhat of a threat down low.

Sasha Kalra - HQ Intern    

 

Option #1 - Brandon Knight

Knight is a young guard with obvious upside.  He has height and should pack on more muscle as he fills out in the next two or three years.  He's got a great shot and can knock it down from the 3 at a healthy clip.  He can handle the rock as well, play D, and should benefit from the tutelage of both Calderon and Bayless assuming they're kept around.  Even if not, his high maturity and high basketball IQ make him a solid choice and Knight could be groomed into a stud point in the future if he's available with the fifth pick. 

Option #2 - Kemba Walker

Walker is a speedy, slick ball handling, New York City guard who could be the best backcourt player available to the Raps if Knight is off the board already.  I love NYC point guards and he definitely is in the mold of Mark Jackson, Rod Strickland, Kenny Anderson and Jamaal Tinsley. He plays hard on both ends, gets to the rack when he wants, can run an offense and has quick feet and hands to offset any size disadvantages on D.  He may have a spotty jumper, but so did three of the four aforementioned guards from the Big Apple.  He has personality and should be a media favorite the second he suits up.

Option #3 - Trade Down

If none of the first two are available, I would like to see the Raps trade down towards the middle of the Draft.  In this realm, the pressure to find that "franchise guy" is somewhat minimized and in this perceived weak draft, the Raptors can take more of a chance on a guy that could fit an immediate need like say a Chris Singleton or one of the Morris twins.  If the Raptors are lucky they could even see someone like Bismack Biyombo fall that far down.  Barring that, a trade down to a late First Round pick plus a Second Rounder would be good, if not better. 

Ray Bala - The Canball Report

 

The two guys that seem like the best picks to me are Knight and Kanter, but it sounds like they will be gone.  I am not going to pretend to have knowledge of the Euros...Biyombo definitely intrigues me however, especially from a fantasy perspective.  
 
My dream scenario would be that Utah falls in love with local hero Jimmer, and fears that he will be gone by the 12th pick.  Barbosa picks up his option before the draft.  The Raptors convince the Jazz to trade Okur (expiring), Raja Bell (expires after 12-13 season), pick #3 and pick#12 for Bargnani, Barbosa and pick #5.  Then...
 
The Raptors nab Knight and Biyombo in the draft or maybe Kanter and one of the defensive minded SFs...     

Jamie Bennett - RHQ Fantasy Analysis

 

I caveat all of this with the fact that if there was ever a draft to trade down (or completely out of) this would clearly be the one. There is very little in this draft, outside of Irving, that excites me. But if I was in Bryan Colangelo's position come draft night and had to stay at number 5 and both Irving and Williams were gone here is what my draft board would look like:

1. Brandon Knight: I unlike many, am not totally sold on this kid. Do the Raps need a PG of the future? Sure, but Knight is not what I would call a "pure" PG. He turned the ball over too much in college for my liking and is still learning the position having also played the off-guard growing up. Perhaps the thing he brings to the table that attracts me the most is his intelligence and knowledge of the game. That being said, if the Raps add this guy I would totally support the decision, in particular because there is little by way of true PG prospects currently slated to be eligible in next year's draft. Reality is the Raps need talent and if he is considered the best talent available you have to take him.

2. Kawhi Leonard: Looking at how the Raps roster looks today they still have significant questions at the SF position and collectively the roster is atrocious defensively. Leonard would help to address both of these issues. Sure his offensive game needs some work but it's on the defensive end where the Raps would feel his presence. The Raps need someone who can defend on the perimeter and Leonard will be able to do that.  As discussed in the prospect preview he has a tremendous wingspan and crashes the boards.

Does he address some of the Raps offensive woes (in particular 3 point shooting)? No, but there no single guy who can fix what ails this squad. That being said all reports say the guy loves the gym and is a total gym rat - a trait that he shares with the Raps current SG, Demar DeRozan. This could make for a nice pairing.

3. Enes Kanter: A legitimate center prospect and they don't come around all that often. The thing that I keep having flashbacks about is that DraftExpress says his worst case scenario is Rafael Araujo. Provided Bargnani is moved (if this is the pick) I am totally onside. I like the prospect of Ed Davis and Kanter being the front court of the future. Both have developing offensive games and both rebound the ball well. I am a person who wants their PF and C's to be in the paint -  not hanging out beyond the arc. One of the biggest question marks is whether he can play defense. With so little experience is impossible to tell if this is part of his game he would be willing to commit to. You want to build a defense around a strong anchor at the center position. Can he be that guy? The Raps could do a lot worse then ending up with the best big man prospect in the draft.

Howland - RHQ Co-Founder

 

So as you can see, aside from Knight, things vary a bit.

For me, Knight gets the nod at the top spot, although like Howland, I'm not thinking this is the second coming of Derrick Rose, or Rajon Rondo.

But I do think he's the best talent available and hopefully he falls to Toronto at five.  I'm less concerned about his lack of PG skills as some; I thought Jrue Holiday would have similar problems but excelled, and with his maturity and basketball IQ, I think he'll pick up the more subtle nuances of the position.

After that, I've got Kawhi Leonard pencilled in.  I don't expect him to be a starter next year if the Dinos grab him, or even a huge impact player, but I think long-term this is the next best option.

Finally, I've got Kanter by a hair over Chris Singleton.

Like Howland, Kanter's build and description has me dreading another Hoffa choice, but I think I'm being a bit paranoid.  Kanter is a lot longer and more athletic, and seems to have more fight and desire in his pinky finger than Mr. Araujo.

Taking in the top choices from a couple other members of our HQ team that didn't get to submit a full blurb on their selections, we've got a first real crack at our draft board, which would look like this:

1.  Brandon Knight - G - Kentucky

2.  Kawhi Leonard - F - San Diego State

3.  Enes Kanter - F/C - Kentucky

4.  Kemba Walker - G - UCONN

5.  Chris Singleton - F - Florida State

Of course with plenty of workouts planned for this week, the order could definitely change by the time draft day rolls around...

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2012 pg's

“That being said, if the Raps add this guy I would totally support the decision, in particular because there is little by way of true PG prospects currently slated to be eligible in next year’s draft.”

I actually think next years pg class is better than this years. Kabongo, Wroten, K.Marshall, Teague are all possibilities to declare for the draft next year. Both Kabongo and Wrorten are more refined pg’s in my humble opinion than any of this years 1’s.

by stretch bigman on Jun 14, 2011 9:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Not a draft board, but....

Guys that I find interesting in this draft:

1. Valanciunas – A real wild card, of course. But, if he panned out, I like what he brings: rebounding, intensity, shot-blocking, hustle, pick setting, high FT%. He does all the things you want your bigs to do with a no-nonsense attitude. Only question: can he do it in the NBA?

2. Leonard/Singleton – I could live with a season of Davis/Amir/FA big/Alabi manning the paint for the Raptors. What I would have more trouble with is another season of crappy wing defense.

3. Knight – I am skeptical about his availability and his PG skills, but I like his athleticism, shooting and intelligence.

4. Kanter – My biggest worry about Kanter is his defense and my secondary worry is his knee tendinitis (or whatever it was). Young big men who have knee issues raise red flags. If the Raptors doctors are convinced that he will be fine then they get no argument from me.

5. Project big man – I would be happy to see the Raptors acquire a late first rounder or ideally a second rounder and grab Jeremy Tyler. Leave him overseas for another year or two and you might get a real steal. That kid has talent, but his head was a bit messed up coming out of high school. Now he seems to have it on straight, but needs more seasoning to have a shot at contributing. For me that would be a low risk, high reward move that would be worth making.

Do Not Call List (absolutely do not want to see the Raptors draft these guys):

1. Vesely – this is the guy I am most worried the Raptors will go for. I don’t think he has a position in the NBA and I don’t like his game even if he did.

2. Montiejunas – the Raptors need to trade Bargnani, not duplicate him.

3. Fredette – Maybe he will be become a major contributor, but I think he is drastically over-rated. DX has him going 7th to the Kings right now. C’mon Utah, you know you want him!!!

The other name commonly linked with the Raptors is Kemba Walker who falls into a No Man’s Land between my two lists. I won’t get mad if the Raptors draft him, but I won’t be very enthusiastic either.

by DW19 on Jun 14, 2011 9:54 AM EDT reply actions  

All over the do not call list too, and like your notes on the “interesting” players in the draft.

If it wasn’t for the buy-out situation, I’d be pretty high on Valanciunas because I think he’s got better size than Kanter, and provides the Raps with more of what they need at that position at this point.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 14, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just trade the pick

None of these players are impact players anyways.

by Jeffrey Thompson on Jun 14, 2011 10:39 AM EDT reply actions  

What trade the pick to the suns for robin lopez right? Smh

by sherwin316 on Jun 14, 2011 10:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Robin Lopez for the win!

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 14, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

the pick AND ed davis

LOL

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Jun 14, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Robin Lopez is no saviour, but I would take him for Bargnani…

A trade that I would do, would be Bargnani for Pietrus (expiring after next season – solid D) and Robin Lopez. The deal does work financially when factoring in Bargnani’s BYC value of 6.5 million compared to his real value of 8.5 million.

Unfortunately, I doubt either Phoenix or Toronto would do this. Phoenix has Frye already, who is similar to Bargnani. Toronto would probably not do it either because this is not much of a return for a guy that you spent a number one pick on and recently signed to a significant deal…

Who knows, maybe BC could somehow convince Phoenix to include their draft pick.

Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#

by JumpShootersRUS on Jun 14, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Their 2012 pick ought to do it.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Once they had Bargnani playing regular minutes their 2012 might become very valuable!!! ;)

by DW19 on Jun 14, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

A facet of my genius plan that even I didn’t know about.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great breakdown HQ

And totally aligned with your draft board!
1. Brandon Knight – G – Kentucky

2. Kawhi Leonard – F – San Diego State

3. Enes Kanter – F/C – Kentucky

4. Kemba Walker – G – UCONN

5. Chris Singleton – F – Florida State

I am especially glad Vesely and Valanciunas were left off…

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 10:43 AM EDT reply actions  

I Think Valanciunas Is A Long Shot For The Raptors At This Time

unless.

1. They get a second pick in the top #10 and Valanciunas is there for them with the second pick. I think that that under these circumstances that BC might draft him even if Valanciunas has not negotiated a buyout by the draft.

2. Valanciunas negotiates a buyout before the draft and he is available to the Raptors at #5.

You are clueless about Valanciunas. Go watch some film of him and learn. If you have watched some film of him then go back and watch more or watch it over again and then tell us why you don’t want the Raptors to draft Valanciunas.

Question: Are you prejudice against Lithuanian basketball players or do you still believe that Valanciunas is Barney #2?

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like him too

I’d be happy if we picked up Valanciunas. He looks pretty good to me, a better Biedrins. I understand most people’s anti euro bias, we’ve been living through this experiment with poor results for a while now. Rasho, Garbs, young Jose and even the original Robert Archibald were all Euros – just not the type of Euros people hate on. If the Raps draft Valanciunas, nobody will be disappointed. He’ll be a long athletic big who will try hard; was Keon our last big like that? Valanciunas won’t blow anyone away in his first year, but he would easily match Bargnani’s rebounding numbers. Even if he does have buyout issues, he can play in Europe next year while we continue to develop our young core and improve through the draft.

Walker McKenna

by Robert Archibald on Jun 14, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Knight, then Kanter, then Walker. Leonard’s testing scared me…he wasn’t as atheletic as I thought he’d be.

While I want a guy that can come in here and defend, it should be noted that rookies are almost always bad defenders, regardless of how they defended in college. These rookies will be playing guys that are stronger, faster and more skilled than anyone they’ve played against before. There’s usually an adjustment that takes a couple of years before we truly find out if they can defend or not.

From what I’ve seen of Vesely, I’m not that impressed. He looks like a skinnier Keith Van Horn to me.

No way the Raptors draft Valanciunas with that buyout. Colangelo can’t afford to gamble on not being able to bring him over.

by Mistafitz on Jun 14, 2011 10:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Van Horn was a WAY better shooter than Vesely. Van Horn shied away from contact while Vesely supposedly likes contact. I don’t think their games are particularly similar, other than the fact that neither really has a position in the NBA and maybe their physical dimensions are comparable.

Van Horn was a good shooter to be able to bring off the bench. I am not sure quite what Vesely will contribute.

by DW19 on Jun 14, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not as worried about Leonard’s testing. He didn’t play in the drills and didn’t warm up, so that will factor in, and having watched him quite a bit the last two seasons, that athleticism comes through in game situations.

Vesely scares me, and I agree; unless BC is grabbing another pick somehow, then he’s not touching Valanciunas with that buy-out situation.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 14, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think BC will have a handle on the buy-out situation before the draft – with his overseas contacts, he should have some experience with situations like this. Personally, I hope the buyout gets worked out, since I really do think that Valanciunas is better than anything you’ll be getting at 5 in a Walker or Leonard.

Of course, a trade down for a couple 1st round picks or a trade for an additional lotto pick would also go a long way.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Trade down fantasy

It would be great if Washington was sufficiently in love with a particular prospect that they were willing to offer their #18 pick in order to swap #5 for #6. Just to make this scenario that much more fantastic, suppose Valanciunas’ buyout scared teams to the point that he started plummeting in the draft.

In such a scenario, Raptors could grab Leonard at #6 and then gamble on Valanciunas at #18.

I am sure there are a million holes in this scenario, but that would be the kind of draft result that I would love to see.

by DW19 on Jun 14, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I seriously doubt valanciunas will drop to 18

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Jun 14, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Kanter slips, this might well be a possibility. I think they have their eyes locked on him.

Valanciunas won’t slip out of the lottery, though.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

RHQ continues to bring the quality draft coverage!!

Thanks guys!

Btw, now that the finals are over the next couple of weeks are going to be wall to wall draft coverage and 99% of it will be B.S. Could you guys do a “Top 10 Smokescreens for the 2011 Draft” post? That would be stuff like whether Kanter’s knees/defense are actual issues or not, whether Valanciunas’ buyout is as big a deal as some make it out to be, whether Walker/Knight can really play PG, etc… A lot of this stuff would educated guess work, but it would good to lay down the facts to the greatest extent that we can and call out the pure BS (Minnesota to draft Jimmer #2, for example).

by DW19 on Jun 14, 2011 11:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Great idea for a post – don’t think we’ve done that in past years either…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 14, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

great article

This has got to be the most unpredictable draft in years. I was reading on nba.com that kemba and jimmers stock is rising cause of the workouts their putting in while guys like knight are falling ( I think due to the face he isn’t really going up against other players) I wouldn’t be surprize if utah doesn’t draft knight and goes for someone like kanter since the owner is known for like tough rugged players. With so many of the top players going either way (irving could go 2nd with kanter or williams going 1st) this just seems like the year where whoever the raps draft people won’t be too disappointed in the pick

by sherwin316 on Jun 14, 2011 11:42 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

That’s a great question Buddahfan.

I don’t think so, but that doesn’t mean I’m SUPER bullish on Knight. I just was never sold on Bradley.

That being said, it’s WAY too early to say that Bradley is a bust. He just didn’t play last year thanks to injuries and the Celtics’ depth.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Jun 14, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

you gotta wonder how many late first rounders have untapped talent due to being on such already-great rosters. For example, how would Derrick Caracter look on the raptors?

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Jun 14, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Think Knight Has More Talent

What I meant by the comment was.

Last year a lot of Raptors fans and writers were saying that the Raptors were going to draft Bradley and not only did they not draft him he fell like a rock in the draft.

While I don’t think that Knight will fall like Bradley I am not convinced that if Knight in on the board when BC drafts that BC will pick him. I have him last on my Raptors Big Board which only has on it four players. IMO if the Raptors can’t draft any of those four or Williams or Irving then they should trade the pick.

That actually makes six but very few are putting Irving or Williams on the Raptors Big Board because unless BC moves up to at least #2 of #3 it is highly unlikely that either would be available for the Raptors to pick at #5. I say #3 because I do believe that there is a chance that the Cavs will take Kanter #1 if they feel that he will be gone by #4 and they don’t want Valanciunas as an alternate.

In other words I can see the Cavs taking Kanter #1 and then Knight #4. If the Cavs take Kanter #1 the T-Wolves will still most likely take Williams because they now have Rubio coming over. The Jazz would then take Irving #3 and the Cavs would take Knight #4. Personally I think if BD has anything left that the Cavs taking Knight rather than Irving might make more sense especially if they think they might lose Kanter if they don’t pick him #1.

I think Valanciunas is the wildcard in the above scenario. If the Cavs prefer Valanciunas to Kanter because they already have Varejao and Hickson then they might prefer Valanciunas which most likely means that Kanter will fall to the Raptors at #5. On the other hand of the Cavs have no interest in Valanciunas then I can see them drafting Kanter #1.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well thought out…

Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#

by JumpShootersRUS on Jun 14, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could see the Cavs going this route...

Draft Williams / Kanter first (whoever they’re higher on, likely Williams)
Then, knowing Minnesota isn’t likely to take another PG (without trading the pick that is), either Irving or Knight will be available with the 4th pick. Either one fulfills their want of a talented starting PG…

That being said, I propose this draft sequence…

Williams, Kanter, Irving, Knight … Raptors?

Normally I would say Irving would go first as the “best talent available”, but having the 4th pick as well really gives Cleveland the flexibility to grab the next best sure thing, while still being assured of grabbing a starting quality PG…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 12:24 PM EDT reply actions  

You R Thinking Like Me About What The Cavs Might Do Almost

While it is possible that the Cavs could take Williams #1 I think that they they would prefer Kanter to Williams but I can see where you are coming from and your scenario could very well happen,.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buddahfan's Big Board

1. Kanter
2. Valanciunas
3. Leonard
4. Knight
5. Trade the #5 pick

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 12:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I Have Posted It At Least Three or Four Times

Kanter – Davis and Amir as the Big man rotation. Mix and match perfectly. Barney out.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Got To Remember

Kanter already weighs 259 with low body fat. He wants to eventually get back up to 270 without the fat. I think that this is very possible.

At 270 once he builds the strength he will be plenty strong enough and heavy enough to defend in the low post. I doubt that Davis or Amir will every get up to 270. LOL However against certain matchup like Noah, Nene etc I can see them playing against the other team’s Center hopefully effectively?

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see Kanter's potential as besting Amir's, as much as I love Amir...

And Davis will be a force when he gets it all together…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Think Kanter Has a Lot Of Upside

Whether “The Sky is the Limit” as Amir has said about Ed only time will tell.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

a lot of downside

I just looked at his videos on draftexpress. They are only highschool video (not much video on anything other than that) Check out his defensive one, and watch how he rebounds. Ugh. Worse than bargs. No energy, no positioning, no jumping, no preloading his legs, no drive or want. Just ugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E5aCEH6HSys

I think this is the link to the youtube video, but if not, go directly to draftexpress.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Enes-Kanter-5168/

by solarscott on Jun 14, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watch This

Enes Kanter 2010 Nike Hoops Summit highlights Remember he had a bad back at the time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YzbhAQGPqk

also see the Boxscore and compare his numbers to Sullinger etc.

Kanter put up a Nike Hopes Summit Point record of 34 on only 21 FGAs breaking the record held by some guy name Dirk something or another. Kanter also had 13 rebounds in all of 24 minutes.

Sullinger by comparison was 22 and 8 in 29 minutes.

http://www.usabasketball.com/mens/hoopsummit/hsum_2010.html

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

Actually I have seen the video on the Draft Express link before.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not A Lof Of Guys In High School Play Defense

At least not from all the hundreds of high school games that I have seen.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

valid point

a very valid point, but I would prefer the raps to choose someone who has his switch turned on every basketball game (well most) than not very many at all. Bargs CAN also get 10 reb/game as well….but he doesnt. He CAN get 30pts /game if he wants. And he CAN be a good defender…just not all of the time.

I would still be very wary of Kanter. He did amazing stuff at the nike hoops summit….but one games shouldnt make a career, and it seems to be doing so right now for Kanter.

by solarscott on Jun 15, 2011 5:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reason #2

IMO the Raptors need a Big to replace Barney a lot more than they need another guard.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ideally, if we drafted Kanter...

I would love/hate to package Amir with maybe Jose and make a push for a Marc Gasol / Tyson Chandler…

I could definitely stand behind a big rotation of Davis / Kanter / Chandler or Davis / Kanter / Gasol…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would do illegal things to get Marc Gasol

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Jun 14, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

No Comment Because I Am Not Getting Into Any Discussions About Amir

at this time other than if the Raptors do trade him that they trade him that I would prefer that it be to either the Clippers, Lakers or a young playoff team.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Am Not Against Trading Him

I just don’t don’t want him winding up some place like MN where he will most likely be stuck behind Love and on a crummy team to boot.

Though I have thought about him reuniting with Flip and playing for the WIZ with Wall. However, I would prefer that he stay with the Raptors than get traded to the WIZ.

Just about any playoff team in the WC along with the Clippers would work for me though I would prefer one of the younger playoff teams in the WC

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually I Wouldn't Go That Far

However if you want to start talking here http://bit.ly/j6i6p5 or here http://bit.ly/kCFZCg that is a different story.

I would trade one night with her for ever watching Amir play one single basketball game again. You betcha’ Not even close.

One guess out of the two whose pictures I have on my computer room walls.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why?

R You Prejudiced Against English as Well as Lithuanians?

You are starting to sound like a Xenophobe.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buddha, we may not agree on everything, but when we do, we prefer Keira Knightley...

Obviously voice-overed by the Most Interesting Man in the World…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously! LOL

Sorry buddah… Just thought the whole “I’d give up a dte with her to watch Amir” thing was kinda heading down a path that might end in a creepy place…

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Never Said That

Just thought the whole "I’d give up a dte with her to watch Amir" thing was kinda heading down a path that might end in a creepy place…

What I said was

I would trade one night with her for ever watching Amir play one single basketball game again. You betcha’ Not even close.

Since I can watch Amir play and am definitely not spending any nights with her, LOL I would give up being able to watch Amir play for only one night with her.

What you said is backwards and I will pass. Thanks for the offer. LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buddhafan, crush all you want... FEAR AMIR...

Link to Amir Article

While playing through injuries, Johnson was still able to put up a solid 14.9 points, 10.0 rebounds and 1.7 assists per 40 minutes, to go along with 2.3 blocks per 48 minutes and a .568 field goal percentage. Furthermore, if he had taken 19 more field goal attempts, he would have qualified for the official NBA rankings and would have had the fourth-best field goal percentage in the league last year.

What does this tell us?

First of all, it tells me that if Johnson was to play about 35 minutes per game—which is roughly how many minutes Andrea Bargnani and DeRozan played per game last season—he would have averaged very close to a double-double per game with a field goal percentage around .560.

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re Jrue Holiday

Saw him play a lot at UCLA.

Like Westbrook he played out of position a lot, but it was obvious that Holiday had exceptional skills as a passer so his success in the NBA as a PG does not surprise me. However, I would have loved him to have stayed at UCLA for another season. LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

That was a great article

since the end of the season the stuff you guys have written has been excellent, just excellent.

I agree with RHQ draft board. I like Leonard more than Kanter by a little bit but wayyy more than walker. I think the top 4 in the draft will be Irving, Williams, Knight and Kanter which leaves the Raps with Jonas, Walker and Leonard as options. Leonard remains my pick as a good long term swing man at SG or SF to replace Sonny Weems.

Someone mentioned next yr’s draft as being stronger for PGs and I have to agree, if we don’t get one this yr it’s not the end of the world bec next yrs PGs look pretty promising. We would also get a good and proper look at Bayless who may be better than both Knight and Walker anyway, so going with a wing or big might be smarter options.

by Member29 on Jun 14, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

LOL, "since the end of the season the stuff you guys have written has been excellent, just excellent."...

But before that it was garbage! LOL

I agree that we need to give Bayless a serious trial at running the point to see where he is gonna end up…

I would be more than happy to leave the PG spot alone (unless we can move Jose for a valuable long term player and bring in a filler backup) and address a more pressing area immediately…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha Ha

For a good while the Bargnani hate was getting repetitive but since the season ended there’s been some awsome stuff written that didn’t involve bashing Bargs.Now Bargs deserved criticism don’t get me wrong but it got old after a while.

by Member29 on Jun 14, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

bargnani sucks

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Jun 14, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

If playing PF next to a true C, he may not suck so much. It’s his lack of effort and grit that pisses me off not his skill level, he’s a good player who refuses to work hard.

by Member29 on Jun 14, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

-1

Next to a "true" centre, Bargnani will be a PF that is a volume shooter that is inefficient on offense and provides NOTHING else while on the court (no defence, no rebounds, does not draw fouls, no assists, doesn’t make teammates better – in fact stops the ball and thereby slows the offense – does not earn extra possessions etc. etc.). Oh yes, and you’re right, no effort and grit also…

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do think Bargnani might do better at PF, specifically with a very physical, shot-blocking C beside him.

However, I don’t think he will do ‘better enough’ to be worth replacing Davis’ minutes (and Amir’s) at PF for a higher cost. So out he goes.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Help me understand... please...

Guys, I promise not to start a war on this one I swear (this will be my last post on it, won’t rebut). I just want you to help me understand how he would be better at PF. He would still be the same inefficient offensive player and defensive/rebounding doughnut he is today, just at a different position. Is it because he won’t be the gaping hole in the middle? I mean, why have an inefficient offensive player that not only doesn’t add value, but takes value off the table vis-a-vis what he gives up in other areas (hence his negative production ratings Win share WOW, etc.), on the floor at all. I just don’t get it. But I’ll wait for your answer, and as promised will not respond and start an unending chain of discussion on this… I just want to understand your perspective.

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Bargs will improve his stats at PF bec its more or a natural position for him but at the end of the day he’s still soft and gritless so he won’t improve enough to warrant him eating Davis’ minutes.

I think if he’s playing his natural spot at PF with a good defensivce C he’d perform better and his gaping flaws won’t be exposed every minute of the game like they would if he were at C.

by Member29 on Jun 14, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your question:

I just want you to help me understand how he would be better at PF.

Your concerns:
I mean, why have an inefficient offensive player that not only doesn’t add value, but takes value off the table vis-a-vis what he gives up in other areas (hence his negative production ratings Win share WOW, etc.), on the floor at all.

These have nothing to do with each other. I already said that he would not be good enough to replace Amir or Ed. I think he would still be a problem, but less of one, since a) he would not at as pivotal a position defensively – still important, but not as pivotal. So, still bad, but better. Also, b) he is a scoring big man, and I feel he would do better against smaller players. A good chunk of the time he was facing PF’s anyway, but not all the time. Also, as a scoring PF, a more common thing than a scoring C, the coach might not feel the pressure to go to this ‘unique’ scoring talent each possession, allowing him to work off of other players and space the floor, where he is most efficient and useful to the team.

In closing, I want to reiterate that all your concerns are valid MAS, he would still likely hurt the team too much, regardless of position. I just feel he is hurting it more at C than he would at PF, depending of course on who is around him.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks Member29

As promised, I won’t carry this on or argue your points regarding Bargnan. However, concerning dhackett’s nonsense about how my two points aren’t related to each other, not sure I understand what the hell you’re talking about and what your point is. First of all, one is a question. Second, the second portion is stating that irregardless of what position he is placed in, he is still an inefficient and ineffective player. This was my starting point and I asked for your position on the matter. What is so hard to understand about this? Why do you require me to hold your hand and walk you through this? Anyways, it appears that you finally figured it out (apparently after much head scratching) because you were actually able to answer the question in the end. Bravo. I suppose you are just combative and defensive because you are always having to defend erroneous positions surrounding Bargnani and Colangelo. I can understand, pressure must get to you…

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

You asked why I thought he would improve by switching positions. I answered that.

However, I already said I wanted him off the team. You asked why he would improve, then listed all those things as though they were reasons he wouldn’t improve. Which they clearly are not. They are reasons why, even AFTER his improvement, he would not be worth keeping around. Like I said in my first post. So, I guess I just don’t understand why you posted them at all.

Oh, and please, what is my erroneous position about Bargnani? I would love to know.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugghhhh....

Here, let me help you remember what YOU wrote: “I do think Bargnani might do better at PF, specifically with a very physical, shot-blocking C beside him.”

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

MAS, what are you complaining about? dhackett is not saying he wants to keep Bargnani.

If Bargnani has any defensive skill at all it is his man-to-man defense. At PF he would be counted on a bit less for help defense, so his worst attributes would be minimized, at least a little.

If he continued to be “an inefficient scorer”, but was slightly less of a defensive liability then presumably he would be slightly more valuable. If that could happen by moving him from C to PF then that would be the logical thing to do. Not on the Raptors, of course, since they already have good PFs, but maybe on some other team.

If I were Colangelo and I was trying to convince another team to take Bargnani I would tell them exactly that and cross my fingers in hope that they would buy it. ;)

by DW19 on Jun 14, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

NURSE --- More painkillers...NUUURRSEE!!

'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'

by Jenge on Jun 14, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks DW19

All I asked for was Member29 and dhaktket’s position on the matter. Member29 provided his position as you just did in a rational manner. I said thanks to Member29 and I’ll say the same to you. Now, I disagree with you guys, but I won’t argue with you as we’ve been there done that on Bargnani to death (and made that commitment in the outset). Just wanted to understand the opposing perspective. What I’m complaining about is dhackett’s utter douchebagness in his response. He was being difficult when there was no need. I stated my position and asked for theirs and got back a snarky – and irrelevant – response about how my questions and concerns weren’t related….

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry MAS – didn’t mean to be a douchebag, as you so kindly put it.

Just wanted to know why you stated the things you did, since they didn’t really address your own question – evidenced by the fact that I agree with all of the things you said, yet you are reacting as though I disagree.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yesterday

you were arguing with me.

Today it appears to be MAS11.

Who will be the lucky poster tomorrow to gets the honor?

Say tuned everyone. LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pick me, pick me..... :)

This is presumably a discussion board. Nothing wrong with a healthy difference of opinion.

by DW19 on Jun 14, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets See What Happens

Maybe if you make an excellent post tomorrow he/she will pick you.

Looking forward to it. LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t recall arguing with you. I simply tried to point out a simple error, which turned out to be a big mistake on my part. Live and learn I guess.

MAS and I rarely see eye to eye. No surprises here.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

MAS I do have one main issue with the question you posed in the first place...

I will preface the rest of this comment with a huge “Ship the Bargs out of town!” (substitute bum for Bargs at your convenience)

However, you asked how he would benefit from moving over to the PF spot, and then referenced his inefficiency on offense…

My only issue with your question, and how it may lead to inefficient responses, is that no part of Bargs offensive game is related to his position on the floor.

The debate has been hashed over time and again and is beat to death, but as far as what position a player plays, it only relates to defense, UNLESS one significant factor is introduced (which I will get to in a second).

So the only way Bargnani and the team would benefit from him playing the PF spot is that on the defensive end he would be defending the other teams 2nd option big (typically the role of the PF).

We have no control over who the opposition puts on Bargnani on defense so we could call him a point guard for all it matters, that doesn’t mean he’ll be posting up Chris Paul every time…

IF we had a truly dominant center commanding the opposition’s Center to defend him, THEN we have some influence over Bargs position on offense… But that’s it…

So, to rephrase your question to eliminate the “but he scores 21 ppg from the Center spot, he would only get better at PF” arguments…

“How would assigning Bargnani to defend the PF’s of the league dramatically improve his value to this, or any, team?”

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

1) I referenced his inefficiency on offense AND his other deficiencies such as defense and rebounding. See below"
"He would still be the same inefficient offensive player and defensive/rebounding doughnut he is today, just at a different position."

2) "no part of Bargs offensive game is related to his position on the floor." Precisely my point. No matter where you play Bargnani, PG, PF or centre he will still be an inefficient offensive player, he can’t guard PF’s or C’s and is a terrible rebounder at any position. So why placing him at the four should exact a change in his output/value is a mystery to me.

Maybe I’m missing your point?? But I think we actually agree. I still fail to see how changing the question makes that much of a differance though…

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was already being started...
he is a scoring big man, and I feel he would do better against smaller players. A good chunk of the time he was facing PF’s anyway, but not all the time. Also, as a scoring PF, a more common thing than a scoring C, the coach might not feel the pressure to go to this ‘unique’ scoring talent each possession, allowing him to work off of other players and space the floor, where he is most efficient and useful to the team.

dhackett

Trying to say that labelling him a PF has any bearing on who the other team defends him with…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on who is beside him. If the C beside him is very strong and tall with a half-decent post-up game, the opposition can not guard them with an undersized PF. However, beside a player like Amir or Ed Davis, relative light-weights, the opposition is free to use their larger defender on Bargnani if they want to. There is not direct control, but there are things a coach can do to influence the opposition’s defensive plan.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate it when people only read part of what I say and then ramp up a response, often saying exactly the thing that I said in an attempt to argue against me...
Depends on who is beside him. If the C beside him is very strong and tall with a half-decent post-up game, the opposition can not guard them with an undersized PF.

I clearly had already stated…

IF we had a truly dominant center commanding the opposition’s Center to defend him, THEN we have some influence over Bargs position on offense…

Thanks for coming out…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that was my point in the first place. Anyway, you don’t need a dominant C, just a big one. So long as they have the bulk to overpower the PFs of the league, you’re good.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 15, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

You need some basketball talent too. This is not Roller Derby we are talking about.

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course – but I said that above – the C wouldn’t have to be dominant, just effective.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 16, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gotcha ; )

This is what I don’t get… Isn’t Bargnani’s supposed value that he draws traditional big men out to the perimeter where they have difficulty guarding him? So why is it better if he’s being guarded by more mobile PF? In fact, it’s the exact oposite.

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here’s the thing – I’ve noticed that Bargnani, for whatever reason, refuses to use his talents to his advantage, and rarely drives past slower defenders. He usually just shoots over people – so having a shorter defender would help with that. Sure, I’d prefer if he just played the right way, but that ship has sailed, if you ask me. So, maybe he expends a little less energy one-on-one on defense with smaller players to defend (he certainly couldn’t expend any less energy in help situations), and hits at a slightly higher percentage. I guess my stance is – he certainly couldn’t do worse, maybe he’ll do better at a different spot – but I don’t want to find out first hand.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

On Most Teams Today

a teams first Big man option is usually what is considered the PF at least from what I have seen.

So Bargs being Bags that is the worst of the two Bigs on the defensive end would still most likely matchup with the same player as he did this season.

I see no change. It is after all about matchups.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Basically, unless we're talking Kevin Garnett (who is a seven footer anyways for the record)

The main defensive force, or at least the last line of defense, is the center.

So, for most of Bargnani’s matchups, until we have a force that garners that specific defensive attention, Bargnani will continue to be regularly defended by the other team’s better defender… regardless of how Bargnani is announced in the starting lineup…

Without the other players to force the matchups you want, the other team holds all the cards…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol (when Bynum was out), Tim Duncan, Bogut, Horford...

On the plus side, maybe we can hire the guy who wrote this article to pound pavement trying to find a trade partner?

Or at least get us in touch with his dealer… cause he’s on some good stuff…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

MAS, this one's for you... We can keep Bargnani, playing him out of position mind you, at a newly created position, Mid-Court Pylon

This is how it works…

The Raptors develop and perfect an aggressive 4 man zone defense, allowing Bargnani to stand at half court until our team gains possession of the ball…

On a serious note it actually could work…

as long as the 4 guys were forcing outside shots, and without Bargs getting in the way of good rotations, the opponents may get more open looks form outside, but we would get more leakout points to negate that…

I would LOVE to see them try it one game…

Love it…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Typo correction: "from outside" ...

Point of Opinion: “the opponents may get more open looks” … They already have most of their looks open so…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 15, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obvious To Who?

Kemba Walker will likely be available with the 5th pick and if Knight is off the board I think he’s the next obvious choice.

It is possible that this is correct, however I don’t see it as “obvious” When someone writes something like that they are only setting themselves up to look pretty dumb if it doesn’t happen.

It would have been wiser to have written

Kemba Walker will likely be available with the 5th pick and if Knight is off the board I think he’s could be the Raptors’ pick at #5.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 1:14 PM EDT reply actions  

What I Just Wrote Was Dumb

corr:

Kemba Walker will likely be available with the 5th pick and if Knight is off the board I think Walker could be the Raptors’ pick at #5.

sorry about that typo.

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

It can be for anybody, really

Robin Lopez was just an idea—a very good one at that too. It could be anyboddy really. It’s just that right now this draft does not have talent that would make an immedeate impact and that’s what the Raptors need. They have enough “developing talent.” What they need is someone to come in right away.

The only one I think that can really do that is Bismark Biyombo. Kanter will be gone, so will Irving, williams, Walker and whoever. Biyombo’s strong, physical, has a somewhat decent offensive game (As seen by his triple double in the Nike hoops summit). The rest is just a crap shoot.

by Jeffrey Thompson on Jun 14, 2011 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Biyombo
Biyombo’s strong, physical, has a somewhat decent offensive game

Strong – yes.
Physical – yes.
Decent offensive game – by all accounts No. I read this AM that the Pistons would like him to be the next Ben Wallace clone. Hmmmm…pretty sure that means ZERO offence.

Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jun 14, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Be The Next Ben Wallace - RFLMAO

I bet you didn’t know this about Big Ben

Defense never rests for Pistons’ Wallace

Looking for an intimidating lawyer to defend you in a tough case? If you can afford to be patient, Detroit Pistons center Ben Wallace(notes) has just the guy for you: himself.

After he retires, the NBA’s four-time Defensive Player of the Year plans to pursue a law degree to eventually become – what else? – a defense attorney. Wallace, 36, has discussed his ambitions with lawyers in his offseason home in Richmond, Va. He also has begun looking at prospective law schools.

"That’s my ultimate goal," Wallace said. "It’s always been one of my dreams. I think I can argue a pretty good case. I think I can convince a couple of people to see things my way. (I have no doubt about that last statement being true. LOL)

"I’m very serious about it. Very."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-wallacepistons111710

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Buddah – now that we’ve both put our last discussion behind us – could you maybe give me the link to that NBA CBA FAQ website you referred to a few threads back? I’m interested in any CBA website, but can’t find it. My google skills are failing me. A link would be great. Thanks!

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

His triple double numbers:

5/7 FG – pretty much all off of putbacks and offensive rebounds – a good thing, but not indicative of offensive scoring ability.

2/8 FT – Two. For. Eight. This gives you a better idea of how ‘polished’ his offensive game is.

by dhackett1565 on Jun 14, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, so he would be a guy who makes Reggie Evans look like a marksman!?

by siggian on Jun 14, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Complete Tangent Alert

Congratulations on a full career to one of the better players to have donned a Raptors Jersey…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes, congratulations to the guy who went against team the physicians’ recommendations and played for the national team before he was fully healed thereby derailing his rehab. The same guy who then forced a buy out. Yes, congrats to the guy who basically stole money from the Raptors….

by MAS11 on Jun 14, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to be contrite just cause but the Rap docs blew the surgery. As much as both sides have blamed the other for the fiasco I think they were both to blame.

P.S. Congrats to a guy that we all wish could have played more as he was one of the few guys who did all the little things that teams need to win games. He injured himself trying to stop a dunk in a game the Raptors were getting blown out in if you recall. Let’s show some respect for someone who didn’t steal money from the Raptors as you put it but earned it the very hard way.

by McGateway on Jun 15, 2011 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

“Raps docs” really? So the surgeon(s) were somehow on the Raptors’ payrol? LOL No that’s not how it works. Sure, teh Raps medical staff would assist in anyway they could, but at the end of the day, it is the player who makes the ultimate choice on who will do the surgery. Just like how ultimately Amir Johnson just recently sought the opinion of multiple specialists and finally had the surgery done by one of the premier surgens who specialized in this specific procedure.

Finally, it was Garbajosa who played for Spainon a not yet healed leg, despite the fact that he was risking permenant damage and despite the fact it was the Raptors who were paying him his salary and they urged him not to play. He didn’t listen, started spouting off to the Spanish media to the point where it was impossible to bring him back to manufacture a situation where the Raptors had to pay him NOT to play for them for two years. And don’t try and make it like they paid him so he could nurse his sore leg, because he ended up playing at least 3 more seasons in the Euro league. So, great effort and grit when he played here, but ultimately was a douche when he left.

by MAS11 on Jun 15, 2011 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

If I recall the Raptor doctors did point him to the surgeon of course that was years ago. The point is dont hate on one of the few players who worked his ass off for us.

by McGateway on Jun 16, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t lavish love on a player who was happy to play for Spain when he wasn’t healthy, derailing his rebailitation despite being paid by the Raptors and was only too happy to take the money and run AND play in the Euroleague after that while his contract remained a cap hit for the Raps for two more seasons.

by MAS11 on Jun 16, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt, hence the title. I personally find most of the big name publications tend have pretty arbitrary mock drafts. Generally, the real draft fanatics (like DX) tend have the most accurate results.

by DW19 on Jun 14, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

DX Has The Raptors Taking Walker

http://www.draftexpress.com/

Last May or June I emailed Ginvory (sic?) about how they order their Mock Drafts. He emailed back strictly on talent and having nothing to do with whether the pick makes sense for the team.

No I will not show you the email. Who do think I am? The husband of The Arctic Fox? LOL

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re Tyson Chandler For What It Is Worth

Michael Dugat: Haywood: “I don’t really see Tyson leaving.” Twitter

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

SI Mock Draft #3

Going to the Raptors at #5, Kemba

With president and general manager Bryan Colangelo having received a contract extension recently, the word is that he might want to distance himself from the Euro-heavy reputation and go for an All-America like Walker. Point guard Jose Calderon has two pricey years left (combined $20.3 million), but Walker could fit in right away as a potent bench addition to play alongside DeMar DeRozan. Valanciunas, who held this spot in Mock 2.0, is still in play here along with Vesely. If Knight falls, Colangelo will take a hard look at him, too. VIDEO

Going to the Wiz at #6 Valanciunas

Here’s the disclaimer that doesn’t get mentioned nearly enough: The executives themselves won’t solidify their short-list opinions until the final week, if not days, before the draft. As a result, it’s a toss-up whether the Wizards would opt for Vesely or Valanciunas. I’m opting for Valanciunas simply because I was told weeks ago that he was above Vesely on the Wizards’ board. Sources say Washington is also very high on San Diego State small forward Kawhi Leonard.

Going to the Kings as #7 Kawhi Leonard

If all goes according to my 3.0 plan, the Kings will have a chance to draft the player in whom they’ve shown a lot of interest. According to sources, they don’t perceive Donte’ Greene or Omri Casspi as the long-term solution at small forward and see Leonard as the sort of versatile talent that could eventually be just that. But here’s the tricky part: They’ve gone to great lengths to scout Vesely, just as they have Leonard, and would have a touch choice in this scenario. Walker is another possibility, as is Fredette or Colorado guard Alec Burks. But the Kings plan to re-sign pending restricted free-agent guard Marcus Thornton and the backcourt minutes are already at a premium with Beno Udrih (two years remaining on his contract) in the mix. The Fredette possibility is tough to buy because it seems so high for him, but the Kings have marketing needs that he could fill and their basketball people think highly of his game. VIDEO

Going to the Pistons at #8 Bismark Biyombo

Pistons officials are said to be fond of the Congolese big man, whom they see as the next Ben Wallace (LOL RFLMAO), and that should be enough to inspire them to pass up on the enticing chance to choose Vesely. The love affair with Biyombo runs deep, though Detroit is also believed to be considering Lithuanian forward-center Donatas Motiejunas and Texas power forward Tristan Thompson. Biyombo worked out for teams at the Eurocamp that concluded on Monday and was reportedly unimpressive. Nonetheless, the offense-heavy session was irrelevant for anyone who was already intrigued by the raw skill, length and athleticism that have been turning heads for some time.

http://bit.ly/lyqQDN

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Barkley Thinks That The NBA Might Be Shut Down for all of 2011-12

What would that do to next June’s draft?

Do they start all over again but just add the new entrants or will teams be allowed to keep their June 2011 choices and draft in the same order again in 2012?

Charles Barkley on the likely NBA Lockout: "I would be surprised if we play basketball next year." June 14, 2011 – 5:45 am by Steven Cuce

http://bit.ly/llhA3J

by Buddahfan on Jun 14, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

i really think jimmer should be there i can see him being the next jason terry. he has too much offensive skill to pass up on

by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 14, 2011 6:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Dude....

offense? Eventually you have to stop SOMEONE.

Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jun 14, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

hes a hard working person i think he could improve on D, common 43 points that was simply amazing

by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 14, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Howland

that is a crazy idea and philosophy. Is there even a name for such a thing? Stop talking gibberish.

POINTS!

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 14, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Points? We talking bout points? I mean, we talkin bout points?

That kinda talk don’t fly around these parts son…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

also wasn’t defense the reason people passed up on curry, we all know how that went

by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 14, 2011 7:01 PM EDT reply actions  

My draft board

1.kemba walker : hes a true winner and a clutch player. talent without clutch performance is nothing cough lebron cough .

2. enes kanter : his length, high motor ch NBA ready body and skills in the post are too interesting to pass up on

3. JImmer fredette: 49 points nuff said

4. bismack biyombo : he is a rebounding monster and his length and athleticism could make him the next ben wallace. i know he cant shoot but he can certainly defend

5. jonas V : good rebounder and post player has the skills to be a very good bigman in the NBA maybe even the next big Z

by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 14, 2011 7:16 PM EDT reply actions  

raps could get 2 of these players if they get another top 10 pick

by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 14, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, I'm not going to argue your selection, but if you're going to use a point, use points that are a positive...
2. enes kanter : his length, high motor ch NBA ready body and skills in the post are too interesting to pass up on

Kanter’s LENGTH : I assume you mean height and reach, aren’t one of his pro’s…

Ignoring his height as a stand alone measurement, he has the reach equivalent to a 6’7" or 6’9" player, but he is supposedly 6’10" (I split the difference between his combine height measurement and his assumed in shoes measurement)

His length is not one of his strong points, he has many, but length IS NOT one of them…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Jun 14, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Compared to Kevin Love

Kanter has a Standing Reach of 3.5" more.

Kanter has a Wingspan of 2.25" more.

Kanter has a Max Vertical of 2.5" less

Kanter has a No Step Vertical of 3.5" less.

That means that even though Love is shorter and has a shorter Standing Reach than Kanter he can jump higher than Kanter.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Enes-Kanter-5168/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kevin-Love-1062/

by Buddahfan on Jun 15, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

No argument here.

I agree Knight is a no-brainer if he’s still on the board. I know he’s got flaws, but given his intelligence, work ethic and skill, I think he has a chance to be really, really good. There aren’t too many guys in this draft you can say that about – most of this year’s crop are role players or unknown Euros. I get the feeling Utah will take Knight at the third spot, so Walker will probably end up as our pick. Lots to like with him too – excellent athlete with ball skills, defensive quickness and more importantly, he’s a proven winner. If Barbosa leaves, he’d fill that spot nicely.

by Skywalker18 on Jun 14, 2011 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

The use of the term “No Brainer” with this draft is highly offensive to me for some reason.

by McGateway on Jun 15, 2011 5:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dallas

I think they go win again, against all odds. At least a 20% chance

They loose Peja and his 15 mil. and they get Caron back. That has to be better.

Plus Haywood will likely be healthy. Come on. They are my new favourite team. Lots of character. And Cuban may pull something special off. Go Mavs.

But at the core I always cheer for the Raptors. And next year, please, give me something to believe in.

And I am very apprehensive that a small shooting guard/point guard, like Mighty Mouse, is not the current answer we need, no offence intended to Walker.

Valan*, Kanter, Knight, and Leonard and ? Please, not Jimmer or Kemba. We should know better by know.

  • contract clauses matter and I don’t know enough about it.

and let’s face it,
Davis, Johnson, Amir, Bayless, Demar, 5th pick are good pieces

Leandro, Jose, Andrea, Reggie are trade pieces and Reggie isn’t worth much.

Linas, Sonny and a couple others, you just hope they contribute. The rest you hope to build on.

by defensive rap on Jun 15, 2011 5:00 AM EDT reply actions  

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