Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

"Buyer Beware" - 5 NBA Draft Prospects for the Raptors to Avoid

Walker might be a very solid contributor for an NBA team, but Franchise isn't convinced it's as the lead point guard for the Toronto Raptors.


No...not red flag as in "steal of a deal..." the HQ takes a look today at some prospects they'd rather Bryan Colangelo and the Raptors avoid come draft day...

Star-divide

Yesterday I took a look at some players who I'd love for Toronto to find a way to get their hands on.

Today's list?

Buyer beware...

1)  Kemba Walker, 6-1 G, UCONN.

It's not that I don't like Walker.

In fact he was one of my favourite players in college last year.

He's probably the toughest player in the draft to stay in front of, has been clutch over and over in his collegiate career, has improved immensely as a shooter during his time at UCONN, and is deadly in the pick-and-roll, all traits that bode well for a successful NBA career.

However I'm just not convinced he's going to be an impact player at the next level, and on top of this, I'm not convinced he'll be any different than Jerryd Bayless in the L.

Will he possibly be an amazing 6th man down the road?  I think so, but I'm just not sold on the Raptors anointing him as their franchise point guard of the future, or a cornerstone piece, something I feel the Dinos need to get if they stick at the fifth draft position.

That being said, if the Raps were somehow able to trade down and still get Walker in some way, count me as one happy camper.

2)  Bismack Biyombo, 6-9 F, Spain.

You look at Biyombo's size, length, athleticism and background and you can't help but think Serge Ibaka right?

I've got another name for you, Saer Sene.

If you don't remember Sene, he was the 10th pick in the 2006 draft by the Seattle Sonics during a time in which they took gamble after gamble on athletic, shot-blocking big men (anyone remember Robert Swift?)

To say Sene was a bust would be putting it mildly and while by no means am I saying that Biyombo is headed down the same road, I'm just a bit confused about the certainty of picking someone like Bismack when there is virtually no significant data on him.

Yes, he was a force at the Nike Hoop Summit, but that was only one example.  His stats in the Spanish league are much more modest and folks like ESPN.com's Fran Fraschilla have gone on record to say that he essentially has no offensive game.  He can catch and dunk and...well that's about it.

Now obviously if you're drafting Biyombo you're doing it for his defensive attributes, but you have to wonder about someone this raw, and someone that there's so little to go off of, especially since it doesn't sound like he's even going to work out for teams!  How can you possibly make an educated decision this way?

If the Raptors had two lottery picks in this draft then maybe they take a swing but I just don't think this club can afford a swing and a miss in the top 5.

3)  Enes Kanter, 6-11 F/C, Kentucky/Turkey.

i was going to put Kanter on this list for similar reasons as Biyombo.

For starters, the kid has barely played organized basketball in the last two years thanks to eligibility issues in both high school and then college so there's absolutely no one on this planet that can predict with certainty just how good he'll be as an NBA player.

Does he pass the NBA look and feel test?

You bet.

I was actually impressed with his fitness level when watching him during the combine the past two days, and he measured out as a legit 6-11 player with nearly a 7-2 wingspan.  He hardly looks like the second-coming of Hoffa and Tim Grover, his trainer these past few months, hardly takes on players who don't look to be legit NBA prospects.

But again, can Toronto afford to whiff on this pick?

The club really needs a sure thing at their current draft spot and I personally think the club is better off finding its big man of the future via free agency then trying to groom another big man project.

But the real kicker for me came late yesterday afternoon when it was reported that Kanter refused to interview for three NBA teams in attendance at the draft, one of them being our Raptors.

Some may say "oh, Ed Davis did the same thing, no big deal" but the reality is that Davis turned down Toronto's workout offer, and did this simply because his agent didn't think he'd drop as far as 13 in that draft.

Big difference.

Kanter refusing to even interview tells me he (and or his agent) have their hearts set on playing somewhere else (apparently Washington with John Wall.)

Now that's not the be all end all.  This stuff happens during the draft process and it's still quite possible that he goes to work out for Toronto.

But remember Bryan Colangelo's motto at one point was "we want players who want to play here" so at this point when you combine this decision with the complete lack of relevant analytics and footage, I'd say "nexxxxxt."

4)  Donatas Montiejunas, 7-0 PF/C, Lithuania.

The final two players seem to be long-shots to be taken at five anyways but I wanted to include them on the list in case the Raps drop a few spots in the draft.

I'll start with Montiejunas though and simply say no, no, no.

Forget that he's been compared to Andrea Bargnani by some, more to the point, if the Raps grab a near 7-footer, they need to get a true center.

The "Andrea Bargnani at the 5" experiment hasn't worked, so for the Raptors to try this again for some reason would simply make me start up a Leafs' blog.

5)  Jimmer Fredette, 6-2 G, BYU.

And finally we come to Mr. Fredette.

A better JJ Redick?

A bigger Eddie House?

Who knows how Jimmer turns out but I'm hoping the Raptors stay away.

Like Walker, i think Fredette could be an amazing asset to a team, and a great role player, but I'm just not sold on him being given the reigns to the club.

I think he'll be ok in creating space to get his shot off in the L, he's got great size and a very crafty series of moves, but as a point guard who can run the pick-and-roll?  He did very little of this at BYU and while his scoring should be translatable to the NBA, I have my doubts that he'll be able to eventually become a full-time starting floor general.

But hey, that's just me.

I also thought that Steph Curry would be a JJ Redick clone at this level so...

 

A few others I'm not crazy about the Raptors grabbing in any round...

-Tristan Thompson F, Texas - Great Canadian kid but to me he's at best Amir part II...which the Raptors have.

-Reggie Jackson PG, Boston College - This feels like a lot of hype for someone who didn't blow me away in the ACC

-DeMetri McCarney PG, Illinois - Similar to Jackson, McCarney has gotten some good pub from the combine because of his physical attributes, but he looks like a 3rd stringer to me at best.

Comment 122 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

brooks sounded the most attractive of the bunch yesterday, biyombo the least attractive today

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on May 21, 2011 11:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Enes Kanter Vs. Jonas Valanciunas

“But again, can Toronto afford to whiff on this pick?

The club really needs a sure thing at their current draft spot and I personally think the club is better off finding its big man of the future via free agency then trying to groom another big man project."

Franchise, can you elaborate, how based on the above statement Jonas V. made yesterday’s top 5 “Draft Favorites” and Enes Kanter is listed as buyer beware? IMO Jonas seems more of a project than anyone in this draft save Mr. Biyombo. He’s an undersized centre that’s played only against questionable (at best) competition and has no offensive game to speak of outside of catch-and-dunk. Having trouble reconciling this, any aditional clarificatoin would be appreciated, thanks!

by MAS11 on May 21, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Solid point MAS.

For me, there’s just a TON more data, video, and info in general on Valanciunas. Do I like him more than guys like Knight or Leonard at 5? No. But I do think that of all the mystery bigs, he’s the most intriguing and has the best potential.

But is he a sure thing?

No way. I guess yesterday I was simply saying that if there WAS one guy I would roll the dice on, it would be Valanciunas.

That being said, I maintain that the Raps need to take the surest thing, and yes, to your point, Valanciunas isn’t that guy.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 21, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification dude!

I can see where you’re coming from…

by MAS11 on May 21, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tobias Harris

I think he’s going to be solid if he can keep his weight in check and work on lateral quickness.

I agree with your buyer beware list.Add Jan Vasely to that list as well, love his athleticism but that’s all he can offer right now.

by Member29 on May 21, 2011 11:25 AM EDT reply actions  

Was always a big fan of his at TENN, and would be quite pleased to see him find his way into a Raptors’ uniform.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 21, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Am Sold on Kenneth Faried

He will be available at the #5 spot and fits the mold of an Amir type player but a vastly superior rebounder.

Rebounding more than any other stat translates from college to the NBA.

Enough of this soft stuff up front. Draft Faried, Sign D’Andre Jordan and dump Bargnani.

A front court of Davis, Johnson, Jordan and Faried would protect the paint and grab rebounds for 48 MPG better than any other front court in the NBA.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 11:25 AM EDT reply actions  

On Top Of That With That KInd Of Depth Fouls Wouldn't Be A Concern

but a hard lesson for any opposing players who dare attack the Raptors in the paint.

Untold offensive rebounds to boot.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know you have to go by your own analysis and not follow the herd, but all the mock drafts I see have Faried going between 17 and 24 in the draft, Taking him at 5 would be seen as a stretch. The scenarioi would have to involve a trade down

by Barflies on May 21, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Faried had trouble

at the combine guarding the other PF because of the height differential. He beat them out for energy and athleticism but on the drills where he was being posted up he was completely useless bec the guys simply shot over him.

I like his energy and grit but his 6’6-6’7 height in the post is not gonna cut it against the average PF in the NBA far less the good ones.

by Member29 on May 21, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do You Understand the Game of Basketball?

1. The Post Up or ISO play is the most inefficient offensive play there is.
2. Defense is about team defense which requires energy. Bargani who can’t be posted up very well is a perfect example of why being tall on defense is meaningless without energy and attitude.
3. The majority of rebounds are grabbed below the rim and not above it.
4. Shooting, rebounding and team defense are the keys to winning games.

Last season Faried averaged almost 6 Offensive rebounds per game, 14.5 total rebounds a game 17.3 PPG Shot .623 from the field and averaged an incredible 1.62 PPS.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

THOSE numbers wont translate to the NBA

AND A 6’6’ guy couldn’t grab rebounds over old ass KG or worse yet a young stud like K Love unless he was built like a rock and could establish position early and hold that position to make the catch. Faried is a 6’6 athletic energizer bunny but he’s not boxing anyone out for a rebound. Also, many PF still post up, I see it every single NBA game I watch and it’s no use having a 6’6 guy ( and light weight at 224lbs) trying to defend that.

by Member29 on May 21, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

also Bargnani is about the worse example you can use to make any point

98% of players over 6’10 aren’t as useless as Bargs so bad example to use there bud

by Member29 on May 21, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

You Really Just Don't Get It

Its about team defense, shooting efficiently and grabbing rebounds.

To say that his rebounds won’t translate is nonsense,.

Reggie is also listed at 6’8" tall in shoes and has a listed weight of 245 which was probably a bit lower last season.

Evans averaged 12.0 rebounds per 36 minutes at IOWA

http://is.gd/WfbNcp

Evans has averaged 12.8 rebounds per 36 minutes in his NBA career.

http://is.gd/olXWwI

nuff said

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

true abt reggie

Reggie is also stronger, heavier and tougher at 6’8 than Faried at 6’6 but I totally hear you on the team def point you’re making. I guess I’ve seen better looking PF and a guy who is 6’6 just doesn’t cut it for me at PF.

by Member29 on May 21, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reggie Is Tougher?

Now how the h**l would you know who is tougher?

We are not talking about Faried starting.

1. Faried’s standing reach in 9’0" which is the same as Davis’

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6569647
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ed-Davis-1354/

2. His wingspan as 7’0" is the same as Davis

3. Faried also has big hands which are an extremely important factor in rebounding. Kwame Brown has been a bust as a rebounder because of his small hands.

4. Big hands are also important in being able to catch and shoot in the paint. Another reason Brown because of his small hands has been a bust as a low post scorer

5. Faried also averaged 2.3 blocks a game last season, which is above average.

Personally I don’t think that Reggie is that tough. Dirty yes but tough no. Why? Go back and watch the games he played in and see how many uncontested layups he gives up. Tons of them.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Faried is similar in height, or taller, than Paul Millsap, Chuck Hayes and Dujuan Blair. He has the same wingspan as David Lee and Ed Davis, and has a longer one than Blake Griffin and Kevin Love. And he has a longer reach than Reggie Evans, Josh Smith, David Lee and Joakim Noah.

It’s not his measurements that are going to prevent him from being a contributor in the NBA.

by Tim W. on May 21, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn’t just his height measurements though that had me concerned. Member29 is right; like Blair this year against Memphis, Faried is going to struggle at times against bigger, bulkier guys, regardless of length and hops.

That doesn’t mean he’s not going to be a force on the glass though and major boost to a team…just not quite as sturdy as I hoped.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 21, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Blair gets a large amount of shots blocked… to the point that he’s forced to come off the bench vs. starting. Now, given his draft position and productivity on the glass, he’s still a massive steal. If Faried turns into the same productive bench player, you could do a helluva lot worse in a weak draft.

Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on May 21, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I certainly am not arguing drafting him at 5. I just think that you can’t write him off because of his height.

by Tim W. on May 22, 2011 4:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lets Say That An Opponent Posts Up Faried

Well then you have either Amir or Ed and hopefrully D’Andre all who have shown that they are above average at giving weak side help as shot blockers.

With good or very good defensive teams the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Team defense is about attitude, effort, understanding angles, spacing and being able to read offenses.

My biggest concern with Faried would be his lack of weight.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Toronto

has no shortage of hardworking PFs who can benifit a team through their effort and hustle. I’ve got nothing against Faried, and if Toronto didn’t already have ED and Amir (and maybe Reggie) he’d be of interest. If Toronto is going to take a big it needs to be a C unless there is a PF that looks like he will be a dominant player. Faried does not look like he will ever be a dominant player. Hard worker yes. Benifit a team, yes. But he is already the type of player Toronto is already very strong at.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on May 21, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Raptors Need To Start Building Depth

I still like Ed and Amir as starters if Amr’s ankle problem can be fixed without it negatively affecting his athleticism.

The Bulls have four good big men

Boozer
Noah
Asik
Gibson

I see Faried as a Taj Gibson type player. A four year guy who can step right in and give the Raptors rebounding, solid defense and efficient scoring.

Gibson is 6’9" and 225 vs Faried 6’8" and 225.

Gibson’s standing reach is 9’1" which is 1 more inch than Faried.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Taj-Gibson-1164/

Gibson averaged 9.6 rebounds per 36 minutes with USC

http://is.gd/xx0HBK

His NBA career average is 9.8 rebounds per 36 minutes

http://is.gd/KmIoLY

So again just like in the case of Reggie we see that for players in the 6’8 – 6’9" and 225 – 240 range rebounding does translate from college to the NBA.

Gibson numbers from this season

Win Share per 48 = 14.3 Career 12.0
PER 17.9
Off Rating 113 Gibson’ PPS in his senior yr with USC was 1.58. Faried’s 1.62 this last season
Def Rating 98

http://is.gd/KmIoLY

http://is.gd/UWIHaV

Besides you got to love a guy who not only plays hard and is excellent at what they do but will stay within the strengths of their game for the betterment of the team.

Maybe the difference here in my opinion and yours is based upon we see on the current roster, who will be available to the Raptos in the draft and how those players can fill a Raptors need.

I don’t see anyone in the draft that the Raptors could take that would replace DeRozan, Barbosa who I believe the Raptors will extend, Calderon and Bayless.

I don’t see anyone in the draft that the Raptors could draft that replace Ed and a healthy Amir.

I don’t see anyone in the draft that the Raptors could take that would be better than James Johnson and a healthy Linas Kleiza.

What will be available to the Raptors other than four year players like Faried will be guys that are young with a number of question marks and international players who also are projects.

A four year college player like Faried will not be a project and be able to step right in and contribute to solid and effective depth off of the bench.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are looking at

2 Cs and 2 PFs.

Toronto has 3 PFs and whatever one wants to believe Bargnani is.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on May 21, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ed and Amir are just too small to be the starting front court.

Both are 6-9 and slender, just not big enough and neither is a “true” centre (both pretty darn good PFs). Look at the remainding teams in the playofss, all of them have legit starting centres.

by MAS11 on May 21, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the real kicker for me came late yesterday afternoon when it was reported that Kanter refused to interview for three NBA teams in attendance at the draft, one of them being our Raptors.

Some may say “oh, Ed Davis did the same thing, no big deal” but the reality is that Davis turned down Toronto’s workout offer, and did this simply because his agent didn’t think he’d drop as far as 13 in that draft.

Big difference.

Kanter refusing to even interview tells me he (and or his agent) have their hearts set on playing somewhere else (apparently Washington with John Wall.)

Now that’s not the be all end all. This stuff happens during the draft process and it’s still quite possible that he goes to work out for Toronto.

But remember Bryan Colangelo’s motto at one point was “we want players who want to play here” so at this point when you combine this decision with the complete lack of relevant analytics and footage, I’d say “nexxxxxt.”
BANG ON FRANCISE
when i read this late last night on realgm i to said well if this kid dont even wanna interview with us than why bother taking him. Its not like hes holding all the cards and gets to pick who he wants to play for. Yi did the same thing to the bucks and they still drafted him knowing he didnt want to be there well look how that turned out for him. and again the fact that he turned down 3 teams 2 of them are picking in the top 5 is retarded someone should tell this kid hey your lucky to be even in this position with no one knowing a lick if he can even play or not he hasnt played any real ball in damn near 2 years!!! if i was the raps i wouldnt even look to drafting him i agree if anything they should look for their center in free agency not draft ANOTHER power foward.

by sherwin316 on May 21, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

If Kanter is available still at #5

we should still pick him despite his snub and then try to trade him to the Wiz for McGee.

Anyone heard abt the Raptors taking Knight out to dinner in addition to the interview. When BC takes a player out to dinner thats a sign he means business.

by Member29 on May 21, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks for the link

pretty interesting stuff reading what he had to say about all the players

by sherwin316 on May 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very interesting stuff and if the “dinner” report is true, I’d say there’s a pretty strong case to be made for Knight being a lock at 5.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 21, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Chance That Knight Could Be Available At #5

While I have argued against the Raptors drafting Knight that has been based upon the Raptors keeping Jose. If they can move Jose then I have no problem with Knight being drafted by the Raptors.

If BC could fill a Raptors need by trading Jose I say go for it; i.e trade Jose and draft Knight.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

McGee? Are you kidding me? I’d much rather have Kanter. McGee is physically an excellent center, but he has a poor head on his shoulders and despite being one of the best shotblockers in the NBA, he’s an awful defender with apparently no fundamentals in that regard.

by Tim W. on May 21, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

id prefer kanter 2, my comments were based on him wanting to play for the Wiz and

snubbing the raptors for the interview. Why not draft him and ship him to the Wiz for McGee who is flawed in some ways but he’s also young, cheap with some upsaide.

by Member29 on May 21, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless Kanter is a dick about it (see Steve Francis), you keep Kanter because he’s probably going to be a better player than McGee.

I don’t want anymore flawed players on the Raptors. The guy’s got a low basketball IQ, and I don’t know if you can win with guys like that.

by Tim W. on May 21, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Would Agee Except

Why would you want a player who doesn’t want to play in Toronto?

So I would have no problem drafting Kanter who doesn’t want to play for the Raptors probably because his fellow countryman Hedo’s experience with the Raptors and then trading Kanter for McGee.

If the Raptors want a Center who can block shots and is only going to continue get better on defense why not draft Kanter and trade him McGee. He is certainly better than any Center in the draft with the possible exception of Kanter

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

As of right now, there is literally no evidence to suggest that Kanter doesn’t want to play for Toronto. If it turns out he doesn’t, if he’s the best player available, I’d probably draft him anyway. It’s not like he’s got a choice.

by Tim W. on May 22, 2011 4:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Watching the combines on tv even some the annoucers there were saying it was kind of weird to turn down interview with those teams at the time. Again I really don’t know what the fastination is with this kid with so many off us on here like to use advance data and stats to project to see how a player fairs. Well there isn’t no data on this kid cause he hasn’t played any real ball in 2 years, the only film we have is him playing against 17 year olds and a 1 on nothing drills. Sorry that aint good enough evidence for me to pick him as high as 5.

by sherwin316 on May 22, 2011 3:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Ii love how as soon as there’s an indication that Kanter might not want to play for the Raptors (that’s still up in the air, though), that people are suddenly listing reasons why he shouldn’t be drafted.

Go to YouTube and type in Enes Kanter. You’ll find lots of videos of him playing in Europe again grown me. I found one of a Utah Jazz scout breaking down his game in a European game he played. I’ve personally seen him play in the Nike Hoops game and moist of a game in Europe. The kid can play. I think he’s the third best prospect in this draft. If the Raptors can get him at 5 I think that’s a steal.

by Tim W. on May 22, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Valanciunas is already listed above him on the Raptors' draft board.

TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol

by Krobify on May 22, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what Kanter wants to hear.

He doesn’t care what people think, he just wants to play with John Wall.

TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol

by Krobify on May 22, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Kanter is available at number 5 then the Wizards can have him if they are willing to sweeten the pot enough. They can start by giving the Raptors their second round pick and a maybe a future second if Colangelo’s preferred choice has already been taken in the top four.

by DW19 on May 24, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I Presented The Evidence

1. Fellow countryman Hedo’s experience with the Raptors leading to
2. Kanter’s refusal to interview with the Raptors leading to
3. Valanciunas now being higher on the Raptors draft board than Kanter. See my post on today’s thread for the story and link.

This is just like all the reasons I gave over at Raptors Republic that Bosh was going to wind up the Heat long before it was publicly known.

The reasons are mounting up pointing to Kanter winding up somewhere other than with the Raptors.

by Buddahfan on May 22, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or he just wants to go to a team that he he’s got angoodnchancento start on. With Bargnani on the roster, he probably feels he doesn’t have a good chance. If the Raptors draft him and trade Bargnani, I’m guessing he’ll be happy in Toronto.

by Tim W. on May 22, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You Have Presented No Facts To Back Up Your Argument

I have presented facts in logical sequence. Whether you choose to deny them or not is your own affair.

The only chance there is of Kanter ending up in Toronto is if Valancounas is picked #1 – #4 and Kanter is not. This could happen.

by Buddahfan on May 22, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither of us have presented facts. We’ve both presented our opinion, and I simply feel that my option is less conspiracy/everyone-hates-us-attitude based.

by Tim W. on May 22, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t ignore anything. But the fact is that all those things may be completely unrelated. Here are the facts as I see them.

1. Milwuakee drafts Andrew Bogut 1st and he becomes their starting center.

2. Toronto drafts Bargnani 1st overall and he eventually becomes the starting center for the Raptors.

3. Utah trades for Al Jefferson and his mammoth contract in order to start him at center, adding him to the $46 million front court that includes Okur, Favours, and Millsap.

4. Kanter, or more precicely, Kanter’s agent, turns down interviews for Milwaukee, Toronto and Utah.

See how you can relate those facts, too?

by Tim W. on May 23, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

You Are Worse Than Apollo

and that is really going sum

cheers

by Buddahfan on May 23, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?

I’m worse than Apollo because I’m not agreeing with you? Are your facts any more indisputable than mine? I gotta say I’m more than a little confused by that comment.

by Tim W. on May 23, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ouch!

Ur Facts 1 – 3 as you have presented them are irrelevant to this discussion. They are some random facts . Ur fourth fact brings in Utah, where Okur another Turkey player plays and brings in the Bucks where llyasova another Turkey player plays. Interesting observation and could have some bearing on why Kanter turned down interviews with them if you say so. I don’t know I don’t follow the Bucks and Jazz draft rumors and you haven’t presented a link to support statement #4.

However we don’t know where Kanter is on their draft boards or at least I haven’t seen anything on that. We know at least according to that one article hat Kanter is behind Jonas on the Raptors big board and that as of now the Raptors have only one lottery pick.

We do also know that Kanter and Hedo talk and that Hedo has said some negative things about the Raptors organization and their management in particular. Do we know what Okur’s and Illyasova’s opinion of the Jazz and Bucks management is respectively? I don’t but it seems reasonable that their opinions of their respective team’s management must be better than Hedo’s was/is of the Raptors management because they are not only still with their respective teams but to my knowledge have not made any negative public comments about their respective management like Hedo did about the Raptors management.

Ouch!

by Buddahfan on May 24, 2011 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

>It’s almost as if you were wrong.<

How can you go so far as to even imply a connection between a state of “wrongness” and Buddhafan? Condescension, snarkiness and eccentric views correlate perfectly with being right all the time.

by notpossible on May 24, 2011 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wrongness

I am wrong as often as the next person.

However, I will not admit to being wrong when someone says or indicates that I wrong but brings no facts, links etc to back it up but just their opinion.

That is just how it is. If you want the satisfaction of proving me wrong on something then bring a link from a reputable source that supports your argument that I am wrong on an issue.

I will then be more than happy to admit I am wrong because I will have learned something.

That is really all there is to it.

by Buddahfan on May 24, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

You said that the Raptors would not draft Kanter and tried to say that Kanter refused to interview for the Raptors because Turkoglu badmouthed the Raptors. Not only is it apparent that the Raptors COULD draft Kanter, but that Kanter is open to being drafted by the Raptors. The link I posted is my proof of that.

by Tim W. on May 24, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

This Is New Information

If it is true than that changes the scenario.

One can only draw conclusions from the evidence available at the time that they draw their conclusions.

Based upon this article and the other one that said that Jonas was ahead of Kanter on the Raptors draft board we can draw the following preliminary updated conclusions.

1. That if Jonas has been drafted by another team by the time that the Raptors draft or
2. If a successful buyout arrangement of Jonas contract between him and the Raptors can not be reached before the draft and
3, if Kanter is still on the board when the Raptors draft that they might consider drafting him depending
3a. The results of a possible interview,
3b. The results a possible workout and
3c. Who else is still on the Raptors draft board and has not been drafted when the Raptors draft.

by Buddahfan on May 24, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

My point is that you were jumping to conclusions without enough information. I didn’t necessarily believe my scenario was correct, but the fact is that it seemed more plausible. You stated, point blank, that the Raptors wouldn’t draft Kanter. I thought that was foolhardy considering what little information we had.

by Tim W. on May 24, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kanter wanted to come to America, not Canada.haha

TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol

by Krobify on May 22, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

If what you are looking to change the Raptors’ culture and make it more defensive-minded and athletic, why not go for Kahwi Leonard? He is athletic, rebounds, defends and can play the SF position, which we need. If you look at the newly released draft combine measurables Leonard amazingly has a bigger wingspan than Enes Kanter, who is being projected as a center.

by Barflies on May 21, 2011 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

-1

Leonard is 19 years old.

There is no guarantee that he will become better than James Johnson.

Leonard would spend the next two seasons in the D-League and at the end of the Raptors bench.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

there is no gaurantee on anyone in this draft

Leonard at 19 is actually a very good thing. At 19 he can be developed similarly to the way DD was. I think Leonard will be a solid rotation player but not necessarily a star. In this weak draft he is most def a better pick with our #5 than Faried :).

by Member29 on May 21, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

We Have No Idea of How Good Leonarad Will Become

I just can’t see using the #5 pick for a player who most likely won’t get minutes for at least a couple of seasons.

We all know that BC wanted to pick Johnson but wound up with DeMar instead. James showed good enough in what few games he played in to certainly warrant giving him a shot at serious minutes next season whether he or Kleiza starts.

Leonard would be buried at an IHOP in Erie, :PA LOL

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta disagree. Leonard is a superior athlete to Johnson and I think would be a +1 for the club in this regard. He was a better scorer in college too, but I do think picking him could have some downside. Going to talk more about this in the next few days but not sure Leonard is going to have an easy “fit” in the NBA at first.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 21, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love how we’re having legitimate arguments about the #5 pick not being able to start ahead of the likes of James Johnson and Jerryd Bayless. Scaaaarrrryyyyy…

Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on May 21, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gulp…good point…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 21, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

BC Is Not Going to Pick Leonard to Replace James Johnson

BC loves James Johnson.

That is obvious from everything that the has said about him,.

Leonard is not going play ahead of a healthy Kleiza. That would be insane,.

On this point I think you guys are arguing just to argue.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please elaborate why Leonard playing ahead of a healthy Kleiza is "insane"

Playing Kleiza AT ALL may be insane based on his play last season….

by MAS11 on May 22, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reasons

1. Kleiza is far better at this point.
2. See #1

Like I have said before Raptors fans have this big time habit of slotting Raptors draft picks into the starting lineup and slotting traded for players and free agent signing who did not start for their previous team into a bench role.

This habit is almost as automatic as Amir playing 30+ minutes in a game and not getting called for a foul.

by Buddahfan on May 22, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why eat our young already

We all might have our preferences as to whom we should draft – but if BC doesn’t pick your dude, I wouldn’t get too worked up about it. I generally prefer draftexpress for my source of info, there are several decent players available. Personally, I like Jonas.HOWEVER I will not go apeshit and rant over and over about BC if he picks a Kemba Walker (my least preferred option). This team is a team of excellent 6th men and back ups. By missing out on the top 2 in this weak draft, we are probably not going to draft any difference makers.

Seems there are so many well educated fans on this site, that can research their own picks so well, that they become convinced that their choice is by far the best option. Then should any other poster or even BC choose something different they go insane. Suggesting someone doesn’t understand basketball because they don’t want to draft a 6’6" PF with the number 5 pick is way over the top. You can disagree, but you certainly have to see the argument on both sides.

Personally, I am going to sit back and wait to see what happens.I’ll hope whatever player becomes a Rap (Pick, FA or trade) plays well. End of the day, Kemba Walker might look pretty good in a Raps jersey, regardless of whomever I might have preferred we drafted instead.

Walker McKenna

by Robert Archibald on May 22, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

I just hope that whoever they get can be a solid piece within the next few years.

Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#

by JumpShootersRUS on May 22, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Kleiza is far better at this point”

Um, that’s debateable at a minimum. Kleiza, was absolutely TERIBLE last season. He just had major surgery and I remember last season that it was stated he may miss 18 months… I’d be surprised if he played meaningful minutes in the NBAever again…

by MAS11 on May 22, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

gotta disagree with ya a bit here mas

i agree with you kleiza didnt have a good year but we do have to rememeber he was injuried and playing through the injury to the point where he had to shut it down. But i just dont see him as bad a player as you keep saying he is. He had a good summer playing in the worlds where he was one of the best players in the tournment, he was one of the best players in training camp for the raps and even throught pre-season into the regular season he played pretty well. I think when healthy he can be a very useful player either with the rps or someone elses team in the leaugue.

by sherwin316 on May 22, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

did you guys look at kahwi's background

i went on youtube to see of any game footage and found a lil piece of his background…its a real touching story..kid being from compton..his dad got murder at his work and they still never found the killers and this was just before he was about to leave to go to college. But he stayed strong and did pretty good for himself it was a touching story for real. The kind that makes you want to see a good kid like that succeed. Id be all for the raps taking him.

by sherwin316 on May 21, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

I would too although there are legit questions as to his ability to “fit” with the Raps in the first year.

Going to elaborate more on this in an article over the next few days but some of the top picks are used to being “go-to” options for their college teams, something that won’t happen with the Raps, at least not right away.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 21, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah hell, the entire draft is week

When the best player is a guard that did not even play his freshman season and like three games in the NCAA Tournament, you know that this will be a rather ugly draft. Kanter will probably be picked higher so the Raptors would not get him anyways. Kemba Walker is a short 2 guard and not a real point and Jimmer Freddette could be just another white boy that blows up in college only to be garbage in the NBA (see Danny Ferry, Adam Morrision, Cherokee Parks, JJ Reddick . . . eyc)

by Jeffrey Thompson on May 21, 2011 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Um…Cherokee Parks ha ha? He didn’t exactly “blow up” in college…and this is coming from a Duke fan.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 21, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had to add another name.

I could not think of any other one. Keith Van Horn and Wally Szerbiak had decent careers. Oh here some other white boys that blew up in college, but crapped out in the bros:

Bryce Drew
Dan Dickau
Curtis Burchart
Matt Harpring
Mike Dunleavy Jr.

by Jeffrey Thompson on May 28, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with everyone on the list except Kanter, although I understand his inclusion. The talk of him passing on interviews is, not surprisingly, getting way overblown by fans. Until I’ve got more information, I’m not going to jump to any conclusions. And this coming from a Vancouver guy who lived through Steve Francis.

I just see too much in Kanter to pass on him, unless there is a very good reason to do so.

One guy I’d add is Brandon Knight. A guy who struggled trying to run Kentucky’s offense until he was simply given the ball to do with what he likes. He had awful PG numbers, is apparently very quiet and reserved, not a trait you want in a PG, and his best skills are shooting and scoring. Personally, I’d rather take Walker.

by Tim W. on May 21, 2011 2:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Personally I Would Take Neither As My First Pick

Though I could live not to uncomfortably with Knight.

I just don’t like Walker, primarily because he can’t shoot and is too short and light for my liking.

He made only .330 of his three’s last season at CT which was down from the preceeding season of .339

I still see him as another Will Bynum which is still better than another Mateen Cleaves who also like Walkder stared when he led his respective team to the NCAA championship.

by Buddahfan on May 21, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mateen Cleaves!!!

Cleaves was a pure point guard who couldn’t shoot while Walker is the opposite. He was trigger happy this past season and really that was likely due to him being the primary scoring option with few others in mind. Walker is a true NYC guard who is all speed and flash to the bucket with a suspect jumper (think Sebastion Telfair, Lance Stephenson and evey guys like Rod Strickland and Mark Jackson early in their careers). The jumper will come but is that something that the team is willing to wait and work on? In Walker’s case I think so. He provides speed, on the ball defense and very good breakdown quickness. I’m not saying he’s THE answer but he’s definitely a very go move in that direction.

Ray Bala
CANadian BasketBALL Report
on www.raptorhq.com

by rbala on May 21, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I assume you didn’t mean that Mark Jackson was all speed, right?

by Tim W. on May 22, 2011 4:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mark Jackson

Actually I never saw him play very much and recall even less about what I did see. LOL

All I know about Mark Jackson

1. He was a great dimer
2. He played for the Knicks
3. He now does TV color commentary on NBA games.

Other than that I know nothing about him.

by Buddahfan on May 22, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t want either Walker or Knight. I’m just saying that if forced to choose between the two, I’d probably take Walker.

by Tim W. on May 22, 2011 4:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fair Enough

I can see your point though for me it would depend on the team that I was drafting for.

Walker has good NCAA experience and a well defined NBA position so he will get minutes next season wherever he winds up.

Knight is an undersized #2 and not really a very good #1 at this point however a number of scouts think that he has a higher upside than Walker.

Personally in a normal draft, not a weak one like this year, I wouldn’t consider either a lottery pick.

by Buddahfan on May 22, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

"getting way overblown by fans"

I’m not gonna say Kanter will or won’t play for Toronto. There could be completely reasonable reasons for him not going to interview. It may also be that he completely refuses to play. Time will tell, and more of the story will come out.

I will say however I heard two other times that things were getting “overblown by fans”. Those two times were with Vince Carter and Chris Bosh. Every now and again you have to admit that when there is smoke there is fire…. the question is just how big is the fire burning. Do you want to let it burn itself out or throw water on it and deal with the situation (which Toronto has not done to date)

But I agree….if he falls to the Raps, they should take him. There is simply not enough talent in this draft not to and as a rookie he is at the point where he would want to prove himself to the league (and anyone who would give him a contract) anyways. He would (should) at the very least be a good trade asset.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on May 23, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Kanter is available at #5 then the Raptors should make the Wizards pay if to get him. Wiz 2nd rounder is the minimum acceptable price to trade up.

by DW19 on May 24, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

A second round pick? Who care about a second round pick? Especially in this draft. You might as well make them throw in a gift card to Office Depot, for all the good it will do. Personally, I’d rather just draft and keep the better player.

by Tim W. on May 24, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Around here second round picks are sacred. Haven’t you been reading about Colangelo’s mis-managment of second round picks? ;)

Btw, to support your point that Kanter is open to playing for the Raptors:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/05/23/predraft.camp.wrap/index.html?sct=nba_t12_a1

Late on in the article, Kanter’s agent mentions that they are scheduling a meeting with the Raptors in Chicago. As I read the article, Kanter is not refusing to meet Toronto after all.

by DW19 on May 24, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

From the Article It Seems To Me that Utah Is Very Interested In Him

So Okur must be trying to make this happen? or at least hasn’t told Kanter to stay away.

My guess at this point is

1. Irving
2. Williams
3. Kanter
4. ??
5. ??

by Buddahfan on May 24, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Though It Could Go Like This

1. Kanter
2. Williams
3. Irving or Knight
4. Knight or Irving
5. Walker or Valanciunas

by Buddahfan on May 24, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I Would Be Very Surprised If Kanter Is Available At #5

though Davis did fall to the Raptors.

We are just gong to have wait and see how it all plays out.

by Buddahfan on May 24, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Kanter goes #1 then Minnesota might grab Irving at #2 instead of Williams. Then they could get rid of their headaches with Rubio by trading him and getting someone who actually wants to play there.

by DW19 on May 24, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t count the number of times Raptor fans have overblown something. Vince and Bosh are just two examples.

by Tim W. on May 23, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

We haven't mentioned Jan Vessly

I’m gonna say it, he’s someone that will be either Dirk Nowitzki or Bargnani and I don’t think the Raps want to take that chance here. Having Bargs should be enough to keep them away from him and he wouldn’t fit an immediate need despite his great height and size.

And I think that the Raps should trade down if either Walker or Knight are not available, which would be a very slim chance it seems.

Ray Bala
CANadian BasketBALL Report
on www.raptorhq.com

by rbala on May 21, 2011 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Kemba Walker is the only person the raptors should take

Now saying that i believe the raptors need this kid more then ever, Caldron is not doing it for the raptors , not even close and barg if he doesn’t get stronger and put on mucle trade him, but he’s still young and jay not putting in his head that he has to reb or post up, Kemba Walker is what the team needs to make a future out of this organization it would be sad if they over look him ,

However I’m just not convinced he’s going to be an impact player at the next level, and on top of this, I’m not convinced he’ll be any different than Jerryd Bayless ,

are u joking do u play or watch basketball Com on SOn , with all of bayless faults he still get to the line more than Jose Caldron and that what the team needs,, alley op dont get u to the playoffs anytime soon

by Uchiha on May 22, 2011 4:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Actually, what the Raptors, and most teams, need is a PG who can run an offense and make their teammates better. I am not sure Walker is able to do that.

by Tim W. on May 22, 2011 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Turkish delight" tastes sour to me

If Kanter doesn’t want to talk to Toronto, screw him. Quite frankly, I think all the Euro bigs in this year’s draft have question marks and I’d rather see the Raps go after a proven NCAA talent.

I love Kemba Walker and I think he’ll be a fine 6th man in the NBA, but he might be a reach at #5. That said, you could do a lot worse – I don’t think you’re going to find any “diamonds in the rough” in this year’s draft. If Brandon Knight is still there at #5, I think he has to be the pick.

by Skywalker18 on May 22, 2011 11:04 AM EDT reply actions  

ALL the players in this draft are question marks, including the NCAA talent. Both Kemba and Knight are just as big a question mark as any of the European players. I’m not convinced either of them will end up as starting PGs in the NBA. At least some of the European players have a higher ceiling, in my opinion.

by Tim W. on May 22, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since Dirk in 1998

Has there been even 1 all-star level Euro player taken in the first round of the draft?
Maybe Gasol and Tony Parker in 2001, but that’s it.

Here are the top Euros picked in the first round since Dirk:
- Pau Gasol at #3 in 2001
- Tony Parker at #28 in 2001
- Nene at #7 in 2002
- Kirilenko at #24 in 1999
- Hedo at #16 in 2000
- Bargnani at #1 in 2006
- Gallanari at #6 in 2008
- Sefolosha, Batum, Rudy Fernandez, etc.

(plus Ginobli, Varajeo, Okur, Marc Gasol, and a few other steals in the 2nd round)

And, then you have all of the Darkos and Tskitishvilis and other busts.

Give me a solid NCAA prospect over the Euro any day.

by B.C. on May 22, 2011 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

The Problem In Your Thinking Here Is

You don’t take into account all the American players picked in the lottery, top #20 or in the entire draft each year since Dirk was drafted and wound up being big busts.

Yes the best players in the NBA are still American but the percentage of Euro picks that have succeeded in the NBA is a lot higher than the percentage of American picks that have succeeded in the NBA.

by Buddahfan on May 22, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

You may want to stop confusing international with Euro.
Nene?

by Jorginho on May 23, 2011 10:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Kanter

If Kanter is available at 5 and the Wizards want him then the Raptors should squeeze something out of them for the right to swap picks. At a minimum the Raptors should get the Wizards’ second round pick for their trouble.

by DW19 on May 24, 2011 12:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Apparently, we posted the same article at the same time.

by DW19 on May 24, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yup. Interesting read.

by Tim W. on May 24, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

The SI one. Not the abbreviated RealGM one.

by Tim W. on May 24, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

the raptors need defense and bismack biyombo is probably the best defensive player, if we want to keep bargs then having him around would help bargs cover his weaknesses. as far as kanter goes how can you deny someone who absolutely dominated the nike hoops summit and hes been working out well in the combine so he is not too much of a risk

by raptors_run_the_show on May 24, 2011 8:50 PM EDT reply actions  

And then we trade Amir?

I’m not saying I’m against it, I’m just asking what you would do…

We would have Ed, Amir, Andrea and Enes…

None of these guys are legit NBA Centers…

So, what would you do with 3 PF’s, considering they all have talent that deserves sizable minutes?

I would say that Ed has the highest talent ceiling, and Enes may be in a short time a better TALENT than Amir, but I think the chemistry and energy that Amir brings to the team is worth more than just straight talent… IMHO

And yes, I purposely noted that our current four bigs are NOT legit Centers AND then I didn’t include Bargnani in the PF list…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on May 25, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

RaptorsHQ is a growing, interactive community committed to providing the best Raptors and Canadian basketball content on the web.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Raptors and the Summer of 2013
Small
All Things Tanking Pt.2
Small
All Things Tanking  Pt.1
Small
The Jared Sullinger Project
Small
The Disturbing Parallels of Briyan Burkeangelo
Small
Who kidnapped James Johnson & replaced him with this guy?
In_rainbows_small
I am concerned; I think fans should be concerned.
Tfc_academy_small
Andrea Bargnani Interview
Small
Ed Davis and how he defines the Raps future
Small
Fan Perspective: Demar Derozan

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

2009_0503draft09-20006_-_williams_solo_small Adam Francis

Basketball_20gym_20in_20sun2009-01-27-1233091216_small RaptorsHQ - Howland

Editors

Viciousd_2005-01-20_small Raptors HQ - Vicious D

Authors

Burgundy_small RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance

Img_0813_small rbala