The HQ Round Table Part I - A Look Back at the Season That Was
Now that the dust has really settled on the 2010-11 season for the Toronto Raptors, "Team HQ" gives their thoughts in the first of a three-part series...
It's hard to believe that the NBA regular season has been over for almost three weeks now.
But yes, the second round of the playoffs has started, and we're only a couple weeks away from the NBA draft lottery.
In the past few weeks on the site we've been talking primarily about the team's future, be it via the draft, new management, etc, etc. This week though I thought we'd take a look back...on a 22 win season that now has the Toronto Raptors firmly in the running for a top draft pick.
To do that, I've turned to the members of our trusty Raptors HQ team that covered the season with me; Howland, D-Stance, Vicious D, and our interns, Sean Tepper and Sasha Kalra...
1. Franchise: We'll start with the big one. Toronto won only 22 games this year and finished with the league's third worst record. Do you consider this season a disappointment, a disaster, or a necessary evil due to previous personnel moves?
Sean: I don't think that any Raptors fan can look at this season and consider it a complete and total disaster. Yes the Raptors may have finished with a mere 22 wins on the season and yes they may have suffered a number of embarrassing loses, but the experience that some of their young players gained over the course of the season wouldn't have been possible had they been a somewhat competitive team. Ed Davis, DeMar DeRozan and Amir Johnson have all answered many of last off-season's lingering questions and they have all solidified themselves as key player in Toronto's rebuilding process. Even Jerryd Bayless made a name for himself in the latter part of the season and his last few games may have shown the Raptors enough to invest in him long-term. There were many disastrous and downright embarrassing moments for the Raptors this year but as the old saying goes, you have to learn to lose before you can start to win. If that is true, then the Raptors' future shouldn't be as grim as many people think it to be.
Sasha: When Chris Bosh decided to enact the inevitable and sign with the Miami Heat last summer we all knew that the 2010-11 season was going to be a long one. Rather than trade CB during the season when we could have gotten some value in return, management decided to stand pat and try and make the playoffs. Some of the moves we made in the offseason were pretty decent. Getting rid of" Hedo Turkoglu's contract by picking up Barbosa and drafting Ed Davis come to mind. Other moves were questionable and these include inking Linas Kleiza to a multiyear deal and throwing 36 million dollars at Amir Johnson. When the season started it became clear that this team wasn't going to win many games by virtue of their talent, and most of their 22 wins have come as a result of outworking the other team. Having the 3rd worse record obviously isn't a great situation in a market where basketball has played 2nd fiddle since the Raptors' inception and I can't imagine what this season might have done to neutrals in the city. Time will tell whether or not it was a disappointment, disaster or necessary evil and that all depends on what gets done moving forward. For example, if we can find a taker for Andrea Bargnani, get into the top 2 in the lottery and make some use of the TPE, this season could be looked at as a necessary evil, and that's what the optimist in me is saying at the moment.
Vicious D: Was it necessary to get young players like DeMar DeRozan, Amir Johnson, James Johnson and Ed Davis the touches they needed? Yeah, and it's allowed them to play through their mistakes. It's a season that we all expected, it's a season that was inevitable, but at the same time, 22 wins is not something that I'm happy or content with and here's why.
I know that some of us are going to disagree about the draft, but in my mind, drafting around third in a weak draft year should never be the goal of a franchise. What this is going to mean is that our players didn't play meaningful games down the stretch, they didn't play with the attention to try to win every game, and now the organization has a high probability of drafting a player who won't be an NBA starter-calibur player.
In my opinion, this season will be looked on as mediocre to necessary if the ping pong balls fall in our favour, and at worst, a wasted year if we draft poorly which will lead to another ugly year. I can foresee this franchise having another terrible year before finally drafting someone who is a franchise-type player in 2012.
D-Stance: I wouldn't go as far as calling it a disaster. The team performed as expected (maybe slightly worse). But I think this season was both a disappointment and necessary evil due to previous personnel moves. The Raptor organization is going to continue to disappoint as long as they cling to the belief that Andrea Bargnani is a franchise player and the centrepiece of what they are building going forward. Look, I understand the 2010-11 Raptors weren't going to win many games anyway. But when you have a guy soaking up 2,353 minutes and 1,173 shot attempts while "contributing" -6.0 wins, you're not exactly inspiring the rest of the young talent who are by all accounts playing hard and trying to improve.
There are enough pieces in place to build something positive next season and beyond (2011 lottery pick, Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, etc). But the first move is getting rid of Bargnani, if the team wants to avoid another season like this one in the near future.
Howland: I guess you could say this season was a disappointment in that it probably turned fair-weather fans against the Raptors for the foreseeable future, but I actually don't think it was any of these things. Frankly, all of this was predictable and the result of terrible management over the course of a number of years. Now, that being said, this should be absolute rock bottom and there is no-where to go but up. There is a solid foundation of youth here, the question is how do you build on it. Management (whether new or old) will need to take small calculated steps to ensure that in two or three years from now we can all look back on this season and think about how great it was for these young guys to get so much experience under their belts and not about how this was another rebuilding process wasted. Best case scenario is that we look back on this as a necessary evil....but in reality it was definitely not necessary. It was more inevitable.
2. Franchise: So it sounds like the whole HQ team here is pretty much on the same page with the season as being a tough one, but somewhat expected all things considered. Looking back then on the season, what would you say the worst moment was, or moments were, and what were some of the best ones, or bright spots?
Howland: Highs and lows....Well I think the high for me were the wins against the like of Orlando, Boston, Dallas, Chicago and Oklahoma. These are all teams that have a legitimate shot at winning the championship this year. In a season with so few wins it is nice to know that some of those wins cam against quality opponents. There's something to be said for that. The biggest low point for me had nothing to do with the Raptors themselves but rather the opinion out there that the HQ is simply the home of Andrea Bargnani haters. It's just not true. Obviously we don't think he is the player others do and the stats back it up, but for one reason or another people think we pick on this guy. He is the face of the franchise in a season of lows - isn't it fair to call the guy out sometimes? Hell even Michael Grange is doing it. Why? Because it is deserved. Here's hoping this subject is moot once Colangelo deals the former number one overall pick this summer to Cleveland for Anderson Varejao.
Vicious D: Bright spots for me were Ed Davis and James Johnson. I know that both have a long way to go, but I also think they're the type of players that the Raptors will need to turn around their identity. Yeah, there are a handful of games where the Raptors out hustled and did better than their opponents. It's going to happen in the NBA. So for me, getting Ed Davis back from surgery, seeing what he could do, and seeing that he can play in the NBA level was most encouraging. Trading for James Johnson was a move that I applauded and hopefully it means we've got someone who will be a solid defender and rebounder from the SF position.
Low points this year was watching Reggie go down with that foot injury in Boston (what is it with our toughest and best leaders going down in Boston with leg injuries?) and allowing offensively challenged teams like Detroit have a field day against our boys.
D-Stance: I know +/- stats for individual games need to be taken with a large grain of salt. But I'd like to single out the fine work of Andrea Bargnani, DeMar DeRozan and James Johnson, who combined to post an incredible -118 vs. Golden State on March 25th. Bargnani, in particular, put a giant cherry on top of his crappy-play sundae by scoring only seven points on 10 shots to go along with zero rebounds. Truly a magnificent performance.
One of the best moments? Besides the play of Ed Davis and Amir Johnson, I'd have to single out Isaiah Moro of Hamilton aka Million Dollar Shot Guy aka the guy from FUBAR aka the Fraggle, who provided some much-needed comic relief during the final game of the season...
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Bargnianis and Varejaos
contract do not match. more players need to be added in.
I wouldn't take the proposal....
so litterally. Just an off the cuff remark of a potential match.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on May 2, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Going into this season, my only hope was that the Raptors would be able to use the games to evaluate the incumbent talent with an eye to the future. This was my only hope for the year because I knew they weren’t going to win more than 20 to 30 games. That being said, the most significant and most important (and personally most satisfying) achievement of this season was finally, after having a general consensus of experts scream it at him for 2 + seasons, Colangelo has been forced to admit that the Bargnani experiment has been an abject failure. It was somewhat a personal vindication and victory for me, having fought this battle for 4 years now. Only by suffering through this pathetic season, where there were no more excuses, finally Bargnani could be exposed for what he is. That, is the true silver lining of the storm cloud that was the 10/11 Raptors season. Now the path is clear, he must be traded. You can’t move him to PF as this team already has two young budding PFs in Johnson and Davis. You can’t move him to the bench because he will cripple the team’s cap flexibility because he is paid way too much to be a 7 foot Jason Kapono. There is only one option. Bargnani must be traded!
On the same token, we also got the following positives from this season of evaluation:
- Ed Davis and Amir Johnson are keepers
- Derozan, while having a lot of work left to do, definatley took some steps in the right direction
- Colangelo has been served a steaming hot dish of humble pie and has finally been shamed into admitting the Raps are in an obvious rebuild scenario
- Will get a high draft pick, rebuild is finally
-
And pathetically, yes Dstance nailed it, the single best moment of the season for me was definitely the legendary performance of Million Dollar shot guy from Hamilton (aka FUBAR, aka the Fraggle). Watching that dirty hippie do his thing was probably the highlight for me this year… That pretty much sums up the Raptors season in a nutshell. LOL
the low point
watching the guy that was supposed to be the face of the franchise actually regress as a player from previous years (in rebounding, defense, and work ethic) and then realizing he is only in the first year of his 5 year contract……
…. that was the low point for me.
The high point. The GM finally realizing that he screwed up and MAY now do something about it. (low point #2, if it turns out he can’t…….)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on May 2, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You dissapoint me MAS11
I took the under at 2 for the first anti-Bargs post, and you clocked in at 4!
Actually, he was third, by one minute! So that over-under was pretty close ;)
by dhackett1565 on May 3, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
As Sheed Says "Its All Entertainment"
The Raptors certainly gave their fans some very entertaining moments in 2010-11.
I expect that the Raptors will be even more entertaining next season and am looking forward to watching them next season.
Fun season
I am probably one of the few people around here who actually enjoyed this season. Perhaps that was because I didn’t watch every single game ;) Also, I had low expectations for the Raptors win total. I just wanted to see the young guys get out there and play some ball and that is pretty much what happened.
I don’t think I would call these highlights, but some of the memories I will take from this year are:
- The game against the Knicks where Bargnani was scoring at will, but the Raptors still lost. I think this game was probably the season’s best example that offense alone is not enough to win. But, on top of that it was a fun game to watch.
- James Johnson’s first game vs. the Bulls. It’s great to see the difference that a pissed-off guy can make to the team’s attitude. He had his ups and downs after that, but at least for one night the Raps had a guy who brought legitimate toughness and hustle. Reggie was good too, but I think he hype around him made it hard to enjoy his work.
- Amir Johnson’s play. He has always been one of my favourite Raptors and it was good to see him finally get some props for his efforts. All the people who were down on his contract obviously hate advanced stats because he is a star in stats like WS/48 and all that. The only downside is that they should have shut him down and sent him to an ankle specialist a lot sooner.
- Wins vs the Mavs, OKC and a few others were great, but I also perversely enjoyed the streak the Raptors put together near the end of the year where they managed to lose a bunch of games while still fighting down to the wire. They managed to accumulate ping-pong balls while playing watchable ball (from my perspective).
- Ed & Demar. Two level-headed kids who might not become Tier-1 stars, but I will never be ashamed to have those guys on my team. Both bring effort and character and hopefully will be around for a good long time.
Saw a recent interview with Larry Bird
Refreshing to have a guy like Bird tell it like is about his own organization. It was interesting to me that he had great concern that the Pacers ownership would be unable or unwilling to spend the money it takes to win. The inequality of NBA payrolls is a real issue that many seem to like to brush off and think you can some how make up for by drafting. Bird knows better and Toronto is just another team of many bottom feeders who are suffering from this inequality.
Toronto doesn't even remotely
suffer from that same inequality. They have one of the wealthiest sports organizations in the world running the team. What they lack is:
1) guys worth spending on in order to go over the cap
2) guys who are worth spending on don’t often stay or come to the team
From everything I’ve heard, MLSE is willing to spend over the cap IF its financial reasonable. That is,if it will bring in fans and will get them to the playoffs. That is just sound business. Just spending money doesn’t make you good, get you to the playoffs or maek you become a contender.
Toronto is not a big market… but they are an affordable market. This teams locational problem is not the market being unable to support a team, its that at a (american) national level there is little interest in the team (for many reasons)
But Toronto is by no means a have not team financially.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on May 2, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not so sure about all of that. Toronto was paying over the cap and near the Cap as recently as a few seasons ago but was still nowhere near a contender. The Knicks spent like drunk sailors under Isaiah Thomas and were a total flop. While conversely, Memphis and Oklahoma are playing for an entry into the Western Conference finals and are both "small market" teams. Memphis just beat a "dynasty" team that won 4 chips in the last decade that may be one of the smaller markets in the league and Utah has traditionally been a contender until most recently. It comes down to solid management. Bad managers like to blame the cap and their locations for their woes (usually to explain away terrible decisions they have made), while good managers just go about their business, get the job done and win.
Unless there's evidence to the contrary
Raptors HAVE NEVER … EVER …. spent into luxury land. With a few exceptions (and they are very few), winning teams spensd over the cap – just check the stats.
Why people continue to believe MSLE will enter this kind of territory is beyond me. There’s a greater chance that Obama is Canadian, then this ever happening. At least as long as MLSE owns this franchise. How can one not believe BC with his blueprint for success, yet believe him when he says they’ll spend if the opportunity comes along?
.
by RapthoseLeafs on May 2, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
because his blueprint is all offense and no defense. Never once has anyone stated he has a problem spending money.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on May 2, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
spending over the cap
is not spending into the Luxury
I just listed a bunch of examples of teams that were/are successful and have managed to do so without spending over the tax threshold. You can tune in to the playoffs tomorrow night and see two prime examples in Memphis vs.OKC.
Here are playoff teams that are below the luxury tax level ($70.3 mil http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16732):
Atlanta
San Antonio
Chicago
Memphis
Portland
OKC
Indiana Philidelphia
New York
So again, its not necessarily how much you spend, but how you spend it. I agree it doesn’t hurt to have a bottomless pit of money, but don’t let this be an excuse for plain bad management. As per the list above, you can be successful without overspending.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, but…
Has there been a reason for MLSE to open up their pocket books? What I mean is that Colangelo has had significant players come and go every year/summer since he first got here and he’s gotten the player that he wanted either through signing or trades over each summer… And every year, the Raptors got worse and worse. If you were MLSE, why would you give this guy MORE money to spend when he can’t pick the correct talent even when he’s had space? That’s just going to lead to situations like the Knicks had a few years back.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on May 3, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Well I guess I won't replow the same ground but
It is no accident that most (not all) of the top teams in the league have had the top pay rolls. As for MLSE, I may be wrong but I think there was some instability there in that the Teachers Union was trying to sell. As for Toronto as a market, hard to imagine it could compete with places like New York, La, Detroit, Dallas, Chicogo etc etc where basketball is more popular than hockey and the media potential is huge. As it stands now, how often over the next 5 to 10 years would you expect Toronto to top Chicogo, Miami, Atlanta, New York or even Boston while staying uder the cap.
You know, Boston bought themselves a Championship a few short years ago, Miami saw that and copied and now they are lookin real strong and New York may have success by spending for a fourth superstar to go with Billups, Amarie and Carmello next year.
What’s goin on here. They are not listening to you guys
Yes, let's just give up then and go home
The fact is, more than 50% of the playoff teams in this year’s playoffs and the top teams in the East (Chicago) and the West (San Antonio) were both under the cap. So you can be successful without overspending. The problem is simply bad management in most cases and not making the most efficient use of a team’s resources. Like the Toronto Raptors for instance, who were ranked LAST in payroll efficiency for 2010/11 http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog/2011/04/08/raps-rank-last-in-payroll-efficiency/
LAAAASSSSTTTTT!!!!
I'm not okay with 22 wins - but under the circumstances, I'm okay with it.
The biggest low point for me had nothing to do with the Raptors themselves but rather the opinion out there that the HQ is simply the home of Andrea Bargnani haters. It’s just not true.
Sorry Howland, but I’m in the camp that would define this above comment as a subjective statement. One just had to read the game day threads – sometimes even before the game actually started.
For my low point, it’s not just the attacks on AB, but how he represents an un-fan-like persona that defines too many Toronto fans – past and present.
I know that some of us are going to disagree about the draft, but in my mind, drafting around third in a weak draft year should never be the goal of a franchise. What this is going to mean is that our players didn’t play meaningful games down the stretch, they didn’t play with the attention to try to win every game …. [Vicious D]
Most astute comment of them all.
Not to suggest Charlie Sheen has the right Mojo theory, but Winners play to win ALL the time. Losers go looking/waiting for the winning part.
Raptor organization is going to continue to disappoint as long as they cling to the belief that Andrea Bargnani is a franchise player and the centrepiece of what they are building going forward. [D-Stance]
I’m getting a lot more comfortable with your opinions – don’t agree on the Andrea ones – but I think the mistake made by you and others, is the belief, or hope, that AB would be the saviour to this franchise. Or at least critique his play based on this assumption. Bargnani is not a player to build a team around. He was no more a franchise player, than Bosh is a franchise player. Or MVP for that matter. Ed Davis is not that type either, and Demar is certainly not. What Raptors need is a franchise player – by committee – as we ain’t get Lebron/Wade/Rose/Kobe types any time soon.
.
If we don’t make the play-offs this next season (if one happens), then I would consider it a greater failure than anything we’ve done the last few years. That’s assuming Ed & Demar & Johnson & Bargs don’t have any significant injuries (assuming they’re all here).
Question I have though – if Raptors can’t find a good deal for Andrea – do you trade him just to get rid of him, or do you try another year – at whatever manner works best FOR THE TEAM? In other words, do you do another Vince and take back shit, just to please the haters?
.
“I think the mistake made by you and others, is the belief, or hope, that AB would be the saviour to this franchise”
man do you ever have that backwards.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on May 2, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me rephrase this
.
I don’t think he’s a franchise player. And like some, I didn’t judge his ability or skills with “franchise” in mind. But I do believe there was considerable judgements made, based on the premise that if Andrea didn’t elevate himself to Franchise status, then he was not worth keeping. That’s where I disagree with guys like MAS11 and D-Stance.
.
I also don’t think Davis or Demar have these Franchise capabilities, which is why I will not define their “evolution” with this false sense of hope, even though I believe Ed could aspire to being the best of these three.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on May 2, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed 100% about Bargnani, Davis, and DeRozan not having “franchise player” capabilities. Davis is currently the best of the three and will continue to be the superior player moving forward.
Just to clarify my position on Bargs: I don’t just feel that he lacks the qualities to be a franchise player. I think he lacks the qualities to be a good player… an average player… heck, even a BELOW AVERAGE player (when you factor in his “contributions” on the defensive end of the floor). Yes, Bargnani fails to meet my expectations for a below average NBA baller.
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on May 2, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
its was BC/JT that were treating Bargnani as a franchise player (no accountability, contract without looking to the market, trying to build around him, minutes and usage).
I think everyone agrees now that he is not a franchise player (and it took some longer than others), but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t been treated as such.
for alot of people it was “this guy shouldn’t be getting franchsie treatment” not “he’s not a franchise player so get rid of him”.
(I will add now though, that his contract is not worth his production and he needs to be moved to not take up valuable space)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on May 2, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
“But I do believe there was considerable judgements made, based on the premise that if Andrea didn’t elevate himself to Franchise status, then he was not worth keeping. That’s where I disagree with guys like MAS11 and D-Stance.”
Woh, woh, woh, woh… Just to be crystal clear, I NEVER thougth Bargnani had even an inkling of a chance that he would become a “franchise” player. I’ve always maintaned that he was “not worth keeping” because he takes more off the table than he puts on it. He negatively impcts the team every time he steps on the court. He’s an impediment to the teams success. This is not coming from a place of hate as the now very sad, boarderline pathological Bargnani appologists try to suggest, its based on every sophisticated statistical analysis of the game of basketball (PER, WS, WP, offensive efficiency, defensive rating etc. etc. etc. the list goes on). We’re talking about the least productive player in the goddammed league here (http://www.wagesofwins.com/AllPlayersRank2010-11.html) He’s ranked by wages of wins as 453rd out of 453 players in the league with a stupendous -7 wins produced (the next closest is -3.4 LOL!!!).
So, it’s not because he didn’t pan out to be a franchise player. It’s because HE HURTS THE TEAM WHEN HE PLAYS. So in answer to your question above, would I trade him for a bag of doornobs just to get him off the team YEEEESSSSS! Addition by subraction.
Nothing To Do With Franchise Status
His chucking on offense as evidenced by the fact that his TS% and EFG% were among the lowest of all big men in the NBA.
His help defense and rebounding are basically non-existent.
The question is.
Is Bargnani even a starter on a playoff team?
At this point I would say, Hell No
I’d just like to remind everyone about who gave the opening announcement at the beginning of the year for the Raptors…
*koff*bargs*koff*
And then who ended up giving the closing announcements at the end of the year for the Raptors….
*koff*DeRozan*koff*
None of us at the HQ chose that. This is merely how the Raptors chose to present these people. If they didn’t want any of the players to be presented as “franchise” ones, then maybe Triano or Colangelo should have thanked the fans and all that jazz.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on May 3, 2011 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on May 3, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
To tell you the truth, I’m not much of a Bargs Basher myself. However, I think it will make a difference. There’s been no indication that he “gets it” this year, after all the excuses have been swept away. He’s played with people who do nothing but rebound (Reggie Evans) and he’s played with people who do their share of rebounding but need him to step up as well (Amir Johnson) and I just don’t think he’ll ever get it in Toronto.
Put it another way, yeah, he’s not a franchise player. But in the absence of one, we can’t afford to continue to give up secondary chance points and defense from the front court position. We need people to rebound those loose balls that are going to come from not having a franchise player to score.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on May 3, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
This Coming Sunday We Will See Basically The Final NBA Draft List
Stay in school or go pro? Underclassmen had until 11:59 p.m. ET on April 24 to declare for the 2011 NBA Draft. A total of 69 players declared by the deadline, but not all will remain. Players who have not previously declared and who have not hired an agent must withdraw from draft consideration by May 8 to retain their college eligibility.
CBSSports.com senior writer Gary Parrish breaks down which players are definitely staying, which players are merely testing the waters and which players may still be weighing their options.
U.S. underclassmen early entry list • International
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14878964/nba-draft-early-entry-commitments
We should learn that whenever we go the TD Arena in Boston - we should have an ambulance, an X-Ray machine and several stretchers court side
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
I don't hate Bargnani
I just think he should switch to MMA’s Ultimate FIghter for a couple of Seasons….
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
Joey Dorsey and Julian Wright were treated 'unjustly' this season
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
Agreed
I also have no idea where they get this idea that Toronto ownership would consider spending over the cap or that they can
I have no idea why
One time it works and then it don’t
LOL!
Ok you’re doing that on purpose! You just did it again!!!
What a bunch of Mago haters!! Howland, I can’t believe you’d think Anderson Varejao, a guy that has no offensive game whatsoever could equal that of Barnarni. I mean, you would choose Ed Davis and Amir Johnson as building blocks? Please!!!! Ed Davis is ecoli raw and Amir Johnson is too skinny to be a defensive presence in the paint. Johnson gets most of his points in transition and is not that consistent on the offensive end. Anyways, it doesn’t matter what I say, you guys will continue to hate on Bargnarni no matter what. And once you get whatr you want he gets traded and plays like an Allstar, you guys will bitch up wondering why the Raptors did not keep Bargnarni.
by Jeffrey Thompson on May 3, 2011 9:17 AM EDT reply actions
I can guarantee one of those things.....
I highly doubt he becomes an All-Star…the consensus seems to be a great 6th man.
If he does you won’t hear from me – I will be eating humble pie in the corner with D Stance.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on May 3, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll even bake the humble pie if Bargnani ever becomes an All Star, franchise-type talent. I’m just not sure how one would go from being the worst player in the league to one of the top 24?
Geoff Rahal
Author, RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on May 3, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions





























