Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

From Damon Stoudamire to Ed Davis - A Look at the Toronto Raptors' Draft History

With only a few days before the NBA lottery, the HQ takes a quick look at Toronto's draft history...

Star-divide

With the 21st pick in the 2000 NBA Draft, the Toronto Raptors select Morris Peterson, from Michigan State.

That's where it all began for me.

Not in terms of my fandom regarding the Toronto Raptors, but that was really the first Raptors' draft that I can remember.

Oh sure, I remember the Ed O'Bannon/Damon Stoudemire debate.

And I remember the Antawn Jamison for Vince Carter draft day swap.

But the selection of Morris Peterson still brings back vivid memories, and me, as a huge college ball fan, was thrilled that Mo Pete was somehow still on the board when the Dinos were making their pick that year.

In terms of pure value, Peterson has to be one of the better picks made by the franchise of all time does he not? Considering that draft class may be the worst of all time, with names like Marcus Fizer, Stromile Swift, Jerome Moiso and Mo's "Flint Stone" buddy, Mateen Cleaves being picked before Peterson, he was a pretty solid selection.

Not so solid?

Obviously Rafael Araujo would be on such a list.

While I may remember the Mo Pete selection quite well, the Hoffa debacle I can remember as if it were yesterday.

The Raptors, desperately hoping one of the top point guards in the draft would fall to them, got to the eighth pick in 2004 with Ben Gordon, Shaun Livingston, and Devin Harris, all off the board, selected one after another in fact.  A number of us were watching this unfold and had all sort of started to settle in on the idea that while the Raps wouldn't get a future 1, they would still get an exciting prospect in Andre Iguodala, the player many mock drafts and experts had predicted Toronto would take at this spot.

However we all know what happened next.

David Stern stepped to the stage and called the name of a little known bruiser from BYU, a player most anticipated as a mid to late first-round pick.

Two seasons and a PER of 5.8 later, he was shipped off to Utah.

Other "dud" selections?

Chris Jefferies, Jimmy King, Aleksandar Radojevic, Michael Bradley, Joey Graham...maybe even PJ Tucker considering some of the decent to solid second-round picks selected in his draft class.

That's not to say the Raptors though historically have been terrible in the draft.

In fact if you go through their history of picks, you'd have to argue that there have been more good than bad, a statement backed up by the same ESPN.com D.R.A.F.T. initiative that I've been referencing of late.

In one of their posts on team draft history (up until 2009), the D.R.A.F.T. team put together the following graph:

 

As you can see, the Raps have actually been the fourth best team in terms of drafting players that have, taken as an aggregate, exceeded the expected wins added mark they were supposed to produce.  In the graph above, that mark overall for the Dinos is about 15 wins on average.

Not too shabby.

No, I'd argue the draft hasn't been the key issue in Toronto historically but it's been what's gone on after that.

Picks like Carter, Tracy McGrady and Damon Stoudamire would have formed a pretty formidable group...had Toronto been able to hang onto them longer.

That's really a topic for another day but point being, despite a few flame-outs here and there, the Raps have done a pretty decent job in grabbing quality talent, regardless of what position they've been selecting from.

This is huge as unless the league makes major changes to its collective bargaining agreement this summer, the draft will still be the best way to build a championship caliber club outside of one of the major markets.

One other thought for this Saturday; while I've been pretty tough on Bryan Colangelo for his draft-work as the Raps' GM, take a look at the graph above again.

The number one team?

The Phoenix Suns, who owe a good chunk of their draft success to a certain GM who happens to be running the Toronto Raptors right now...

...and who will be attending this Tuesday's lottery...

Comment 37 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Enes Kanter

This year’s Hoffa. Or Sam Bowie, if you prefer…

by PConn on May 14, 2011 9:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, he’s absolutely nothing like Hoffa. Kanter’s far more skilled, more athletic, a more fluid athlete and has a longer wingspan. Oh, they’re white, though, aren’t they?

As for Sam Bowie, you really think his so-called knee injuries are that bad? What evidence do you have to support this argument?

by Tim W. on May 14, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

This Was Already Discussed In A Prior Post

However with a big man who has had a history of knee problems or one knee problem before they could vote there is always a risk based upon past health injuries.

However, even if he has bad knees he will still be better than Bargnani. LOL

by Buddahfan on May 14, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Major Correction On Article

It should say, the “Elgin Baylor” picks underperformed more than any other GM in the history of the NBA.

He had to be the worst GM in the history of the NBA bar none.

I have no idea why Sterling kept him employed as long as he did. Maybe he wanted to avoid a lawsuit from terminating Baylor. Oh he got one anyway when he finally dumped this totally incompetent GM.

Baylor was a great player but as a GM he was absolutely pathetic. The Clippers draft picks since his departure, starting with EJ (Eric Gordon Jr) and continuing through Aminu and Beldsoe? including Blake have been very good picks.

Best thing Sterling did for the Clippers in the 21st century was to dump Baylor.

by Buddahfan on May 14, 2011 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

The Next Best Thing That Sterling Could Do

Is dump Jason, lord of injured players, Powell the Clippers incompetent head trainer.

by Buddahfan on May 14, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Problem is, as noted in the article, those EWA stats and the graph go up to 2009.

So yes, since his departure the future HAS looked a lot rosier…but it IS the Clippers we’re talking about here…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 14, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

No It Is Elgin Baylor We Are Talking About Here and Jason Powell

If the Clippers stay reasonably healthy next season with a good coach in VDN who Baylor did not hire the Clippers should make the playoffs no problem.

By the way the Lakers are close to being done as a perennial playoff team. It is not just Kobe’s age but I read where the Lakers are seriously considering replacing Jackson with Mike Dunleavy. LOL

by Buddahfan on May 14, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure you can put this all on Baylor. He made some horrific choices, but even the ones he made that were solid, a certain Mr. Donald Sterling decided not to pay top dollar to keep.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 14, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus you cannot fault him for unforseen injury issues (see Livingston, Shaun). Baylor had his issues but you have to wonder how much Sterling had a say in things. Plus, Baylor is the only GM in last 20 years for the Clips who had a playoff team and he won executive of the year in 2006 something some people in here point to as a reason to keep BC around. Apparently they will give those out to anyone hmmmm.

by McGateway on May 16, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Two More Interesting Name Players Available in This Year's Draft

Not lottery picks but the Raptors may get a later pick via a trade.

Paul Silas son – Xavier Silas
Willis Reed’s son – Willis Reed Jr.

They certainly have the pedigree.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19792

by Buddahfan on May 14, 2011 2:09 PM EDT reply actions  

You may laugh, but . . .

I personally think that Hoffa could have been a solid player if it were not for the following factors. First he had a coach that had it in for him. Sam Mitchel never wanted him and forced Hoffa to a little minutes as possible to piss of Rob Babcock, the Raptors’ GM at the time. Hoffa also was on a team with some of the biggets ball hogs of the game—most memorably Jalen Rose who never took a shot he did not like. If you saw hoffa play at BYU (most Rap fans think he came from the University of Utah, but that was not true), he was a monster. He was probably the most dominant bigs in college basketball when he entered the draft.

Not picking Ben Gordon, Devin Harris nor Andre Igoudala can be understandible considering the fact that the Raps were already stacked in that position. They already had Vince carter, Mo Pete and Jalen Rose at the time. And putting Shaun Livingston in the list, Franchise? I’m sorry but UI expect better from you. As you know Shaun Livington has not had that much of a career either.

by Jeffrey Thompson on May 14, 2011 3:03 PM EDT reply actions  

LOL

That’s the first straight faced Hoffa appologist argument I’ve ever heard. Yes, it was Sam Mitchelle’s fault… That’s why when traded to Utah Jerry Sloan (one of the all time greats) couldn’t make anything of him either and he was out of the league shortly after that…

by MAS11 on May 14, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wookies don't come from Endor....

'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'

by Jenge on May 14, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um...

did I just accidently log onto the Star Wars forum?

by Posterized on May 14, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

“monsters” don’t come from Utah?
Andrew Bogut and Shawn Bradley beg to differ.

by Yardly on May 14, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

HA HA HA HA HA HA @ Bradley. Were you trying to be ironic?

by McGateway on May 16, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahaahh +1

totally agree with you mas..but to jeffrey’s point hoffa in college was a beast and pretty good player..but it just never translated to the NBA. Some players have better college careers than the pros and vise virsa. Lookk at joey graham..he was one of the most “ready” players to leave college to the nba and had some decent seasons but nothing like he should have. pj tucker is another one..in college he was the best player for his team not lamarcus aldrige but now look at where there are now..pj isnt even in the league anymore.

by sherwin316 on May 14, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 14, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact is that Hoffa never really had a chance and when he went to Utah, he was basically used for a salary dump. Plus, ghe was like pushing thirty when Utah got him (he was 24 when he got drafted too.) Again, just look at old photage of him at BYU. He was a beast, but he never got minutes nor did he get the ball. That was a result of the ineptitube of Sam Mitchell and all the ballhogs he had on that team.

by Jeffrey Thompson on May 16, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I remember correctly

Shaun Livingston was on his way to a very promising career before his near career ending injury (the nature of which escapes me at the time). I think Franchise throwing Shaun’s name on that list is valid.

by Posterized on May 14, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right...

I remember now. The footage was stomach churning.

by Posterized on May 14, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

totally right

i cant watch that scene it was too horrible..rondo almost had the same knid of gruesome injurie with his elbow in the playoffs..not even close to as bad as shaun but stomach turning still

by sherwin316 on May 14, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shuddering just thinking about it…and worse having just seen another horrible knee situation watching the ESPN doc on Marques Dupree.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 14, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to be harsh here Jeff, but you have no idea what you’re talking about.

First – Not sure what Jalen Rose has to do with Hoffa. Chris Bosh developed just fine. All Araujo needed to do was rebound and block shots. Check his averages, or even his per 36 minute numbers – PER 36 JEROME MOISE AND LOREN WOODS AVERAGED MORE REBOUNDS.

Second – There are lots of college players that are monsters…doesn’t mean they will be in the NBA. (In fact, see Woods, Loren.)

Third – Shaun Livingston pre-injury was viewed by EVERYONE that year as the best pure PG in the draft (since Ben Gordon was a bit of a combo type.) Just because you don’t remember that, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Fourth – That’s it.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 14, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

second point is bang on just like what i said above joey and pj etc……JEROME MOISE…wow if he had just put it together. he was just like joey, had the tools to be such a great player..one play he would do something that would make you think hmmm hes gonna be a good one..than next he would totally make a play that would have you say WTF ARE YOU DOING!!

by sherwin316 on May 14, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Remember when Sam Mitchell basically said that Moiso should just quit ha ha?

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on May 14, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoa there!!! U don't expect me to take that sitting down do you?

First of all, I know what I’m talking about so u best check yourself!! Unlike most people in Toronto, I actually saw Hoffa play and knew who he was. The reason why fans did not like him because they diud not even know who he was. Not even the media could get it right where he came from. He was never really had a chance because of an ignorant fan base and an inept coach.

It’s also funny that u put up stats to support your argument; however, you never pointed out the circumstances where those stats were accumulated. That was primarily because he did not get consistent minutes under Sam Mitchell. And I’m sure u know since you claim to be more knowledgable that me, you would know that for a player to develop properly he needs two things—minutes and the ball. Hoffa got neither thus his limited production and his poor 36 per minutes wor whatever that you pointed out.

Finally, despite all the projections, SHAUN LIUVINGTON WAS STILL A BUST!!!!! He was probably one of the biggetst busts in NBA draft history. He was as brittle as a rice cake and never played due to his injuries. He only got a second chance because Michael Jordan was an idiot an allowed to let go Raymond Felton for nothing. He has still yet to show whay he was considred lottery material in the first place. If the Raps would have picked him, I’m sure you would have been bitchin left and right how much of a wasted draft pick he was. I’m sure of it.

You also mentioned Joey Graham, who was not even a lottery pick when he got drafted. he was a very low first round pick (16th) and thus not really expected to be more than a solid role player. Statistically he did pretty well for the Raptors as he averaged around seven or so points and three rebounds a game in less that 20 minutes of game time (saved for his third year, as he was injured). You look at his career stats, and you can see that they are quite efficient. So contrary to your assertion, Joey Graham has had a pretty decent NBA career.

So who does not know what he’s talking about? I suggest you just sit down, son and back up off me. I know what I’m talking about!!

by Jeffrey Thompson on May 17, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

re: Colangelo's Draft Methodology

Has Raptors HQ ever locked back on his past picks and looked for simiarities in traits that he seems to prioritize over others? Upside over experience, length over strength? It seems like an HQ type of topic, so would not be surprised if it was done in the past and I just can’t recall. And given a wide open draft like 2006, BC’s preferences may have more of an impact then a draft that breaks done easier into tiers.

I think the Tucker pick was a nod to Sam Mitchell. In the 2000 draft where we picked Peterson, I could see Colangelo taking at shot at DeShawn Stevenson. Guys like Marion, Stoudamire, Barbosa, they had the physical ability to not just blend in but standout on the NBA stage. While he’s not going to for the athlete over everything, iMHO he’s not going to let fear hold him back if the potential reward is high enough.

by Yardly on May 14, 2011 11:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

RaptorsHQ is a growing, interactive community committed to providing the best Raptors and Canadian basketball content on the web.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Raptors and the Summer of 2013
Small
All Things Tanking Pt.2
Small
All Things Tanking  Pt.1
Small
The Jared Sullinger Project
Small
The Disturbing Parallels of Briyan Burkeangelo
Small
Who kidnapped James Johnson & replaced him with this guy?
In_rainbows_small
I am concerned; I think fans should be concerned.
Tfc_academy_small
Andrea Bargnani Interview
Small
Ed Davis and how he defines the Raps future
Small
Fan Perspective: Demar Derozan

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

2009_0503draft09-20006_-_williams_solo_small Adam Francis

Basketball_20gym_20in_20sun2009-01-27-1233091216_small RaptorsHQ - Howland

Editors

Viciousd_2005-01-20_small Raptors HQ - Vicious D

Authors

Burgundy_small RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance

Img_0813_small rbala