Just the Facts: A Look at Bryan Colangelo's Time with the Toronto Raptors
The HQ breaks down the facts; both sides of GM Bryan Colangelo's Raptors' resume...
This entire week has been spent talking about the current GM of the Toronto Raptors, Bryan Colangelo.
I've looked at his comments to the media, given my thoughts on them, and discussed why I'm not convinced he's got the team back on track as of yet.
I don't want to drone on and on about this subject, as really, there's only two other things to look at in relation to the man we once referred to as "The Legomaster:"
1) Whether or not he should be retained,
2) and if not, who should replace him.
Next week we'll look at the latter but on this Friday morning I thought we'd look at both sides of the coin and discuss why it makes sense to keep Bryan Colangelo, or cut ties and move on.
I don't want this to become a "I think he screwed this up," or "I think he should be commended for this" column either, so let's stick with the straight up facts.
First, the positives.
The big one is obviously year one of his tenure.
He came in and made swift work of the old regime, transforming the Toronto Raptors from a 27 win laughingstock into a 47 win playoff club, one that clinched its first and only Atlantic Division title. They lost in the first round to the New Jersey Nets, but the future looked very bright for the Dinos.
Year two was a bit of a step back, but the team still was a .500 ball club with 41 wins and 41 losses, and again made the playoffs, although fell once more in the first round.
It was pretty hard to argue with his results at this point.
He had managed to re-sign Chris Bosh early in his tenure, something many outsiders didn't think possible considering the team's past with the likes of Vince Carter, Damon Stoudamire and Tracy McGrady.
He had made some savvy moves too like exchanging of all-time draft bust Rafael Araujo for a useful piece in Kris Humphries, and acquiring dynamic point guard TJ Ford for what looked like a redundant piece in Charlie Villanueva.
In addition, metrics-wise, he oversaw a club that was one of the most lethal offensive forces in the league. The Raptors had the ninth, tenth and fifth best offensive ratings in the league in three of Colangelo's first four seasons with the team.
The biggest "plus" though is a harder one to measure.
By all accounts, Bryan Colangelo brings a suave legitimacy to the Toronto Raptors that simply never existed previously. The team has done exceptionally well from a business perspective, despite the recent losing seasons, and was last year valued by Forbes Magazine as the 10th most valuable NBA franchise. Season ticket renewals are reportedly up for next season as well, despite the 22 win season.
When you add it all up, the pros can be defined therefore by early on-court success, and consistent business success throughout his tenure. Add on the certain "cachet" that he apparently holds, and you can understand why many fans (and by the sounds of it, folks at MLSE) are hesitant to drop the guillotine on his career here in Toronto.
But let's look at the cons.
As previously mentioned, for that, you can look at the last three seasons. The team missed the playoffs in all three, and this year sunk to a franchise low, winning only 22 games despite being far removed from its expansion origins.
The club failed to develop a single All-Star under Colangelo's reign, and the only one they employed, not to mention their franchise player, he failed to hang onto in the end. Sure, there may have been extenuating circumstances such as collusion etc, but at face value, BC came in with Chris Bosh, and failed to retain his services.
In addition, every major free agent acquisition that Colangelo has made under his tenure has been unsuccessful.
This isn't an opinion piece either, had Colangelo himself deemed them to be successful pieces, undoubtedly the likes of Jason Kapono, Jermaine O'Neal and Hedo Turkoglu would have lasted longer than they did with the team.
Instead, BC flipped most of these and other players soon after he acquired them.
These moves stripped the team of major talent, and to correct many of these miscues, Colangelo was also forced to deal many draft picks, further robbing the team should a rebuild become necessary. While on his watch Colangelo dealt three first round picks in five years, one of which he got back when Chris Bosh was moved to Miami.
His draft record includes Andrea Bargnani, PJ Tucker, Georgios Printezis, Nathan Jawai, DeMar DeRozan, Ed Davis and Solomon Alabi.
On a macro level though, Colangelo oversaw some of the worst defensive clubs in NBA history. The last two years specifically, the team finished at the bottom of the NBA in most defensive categories, and prior to this past season, was also traditionally one of the worst rebounding teams as well, two stats that consistently equate with winning basketball clubs.
Off the court, there aren't many negatives that jump out, although attendance this year did dip to 19th in the league, the lowest it's been in over a decade, and the team has resorted to dropping ticket prices for next season.
So that's it.
That's the resume, both sides.
It's easy to make a case both ways as the fact that Colangelo did have early on-court success may sway many to retain him since off the court, it's hard to imagine a much better fit.
However the "off-court" stuff is admittedly tough to use on either side, because it's hard to know where Bryan Colangelo starts, and where the Toronto Maple Leafs and MLSE stop. If the Raptors were managed in isolation, would the off-court success be the same?
And should that even matter to us fans, considering that above all else, we want to see a winning product on the court?
Probably not, but since the point of this piece was to look at Colangelo's tenure, hopefully using the same process as MLSE to a great degree, then the business side of things does need to be factored in.
For me, the last three, even four seasons of basketball decisions out-weigh any "off-court" positives simply because the Raptors are not the Leafs, and at some point, without marquee stars and a winning club, the attendance will indeed dwindle as it has, and the bottom line will feel eventually the heat.
I do believe there are other legitimate options out there, something we'll begin exploring next week, but beyond everything, I hope MLSE makes a decision asap around BC.
Say what you will about his time here, but there's no question he gave this franchise 100 per cent, and if the team does want to part ways, how about they do it with class instead of further harming what's already a dubious PR image.
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not really important
but,
“He had managed to re-sign Chris Bosh early in his tenure, something many outsiders didn’t think possible”
Bosh was RFA as was therefore staying regardless, unless ofcourse he threw a fit and demanded out of town. This ofcourse isn’t an impossibility, but the vast majority of RFAs stick with their team, if only because of the better salary they can get. I don’t think alot of people thought Bosh was out the door then. But once he turned down his extension (to avoid UFA), thats when, atleast some of us, knew Bosh was leaving town.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Apr 22, 2011 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
You don’t have to look too far in the past to find that restricted free agents have another option – and one that is exercized with some regularity. Signing the qualifying offer which makes them restricted will allow a player to leave one year later (and probably sooner, since once the QO is signed, the GM of the team will want to get something in return). David Lee did this a couple years ago with the Knicks.
by dhackett1565 on Apr 22, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
just out of curiosity
how many UFAs, who command max salary for their experience group, do that compared to one who resign with their existing team?
I think that number gives you an idea of how likely it was that Bosh wouldn’t resign with the team.
The number of players who leave their team in UFA and who’s team is willing to pay what the player wants/expects (especially at the maximum deal) is extremely small.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Apr 22, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Good question NSFS – I’ll have to check into it.
But you raise a good point, Bosh was in a situation where it made sense for him to stick around, but I can recall at the time that there was a great deal of skepticism regarding this.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Apr 22, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Lietuvos Rytas Vilinius Advances to The Lithuanian Semi-Finals Next Week
With two wins this week in the Quarter-Finals Lietuvos Rytas Vilinius advances to the Lithuania League Semi-Finals next week.
In the two victories this week Jonas put up 12 and 6 in 22.5 mpg He was perfect from the floor going nine for nine. However he was in foul trouble in both games.
http://www.eurobasket.com/player.asp?Cntry=LTU&PlayerID=129294
It shouldn't be that tough a call
Our team hasn’t been competitive for years, the direction our W-L record has taken should speak for itself. His FA signings have crapped out, although in fairness I’ll give him a C for his drafting. Yet his penchant for trading draft picks and what will probably turn out to be James Johnson for Chris Bosh earn him an F.. In most situations it would be a no-brainer, Can His Ass..
Yet in a Bizarro World, the best decision is to resign him and I would put good money that he gets offered a new deal. And not for less money, either. Somehow he has me convinced that he has this team headed in the right direction, and I’m buying, Hook, Line and Sinker.
He has convinced me that drafting Bargnani was good, that in a weak draft, five years later, we have the only consistant, big man 20 point scorer from that draft who, he finally admiitted, needs a little help on the inside.
He has me convinced that he and Sam never really had a chance. That COY award was the worst thing to happen to this franchise.(No knock against Mitchell, imo a fantastic coach who with the right GM can take a team far. Not to mention his suits and his comic relief with the press) Mitchell and Bargnani? Doomed from the get go.
He has me convinced that Garbarosa injury hurt more than you’d ever know. Actually I already knew that.
He tried to convince me that Bosh was gonna resign, but sorry Brian, you eff’d that one up big time.
He has me convinced that Demar has that right chip on his shoulder, the determination to get better.
I be honest, he both agree on the potential of Amir Johnson and Ed Davis and are certain that our first round pick will also become a servicable NBA player.
I am not quite as optimistic as him regarding Jarred Bayless and James Johnson but have seen glimpses from both to say Proove me wrong
And you know what, nice guy that I am, I agree with his opinion of Jay coming back, although I worry this will come back to haunt me.
To add to this Bizarro World theme, imagine are a year in the future, April 2012, and I can be just finishing up typing this same comment, still feeling OK knowing we are adding another low lottery pick to last years(this years) pick.
Hook, Line, Sinker..
Nice angle on things Tinman
You’ve illustrated the mountain you have to climb in order to convince one’s self how it makes sense to re-sign Colangelo.
+1
Just a great post Tinman.
To be honest, I’m finding myself in a similar boat. I wrote this post, looked it over a few times, and thought to myself “maybe he does deserve another kick at the can.”
It’s that big “off-court” piece that really bugs me. How important is that? It would be great if our local media could, you know, shed some light into this matter.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Apr 23, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I Guess You Have To Be A Long Time Raptors Sufferer To Appreach Ur Post
My only other comment is that.
The Raptors would never have gone anywhere with Bosh.
I guess if you like to hover between the bottom of the lottery and the bottom of the playoff seeding then Bosh was worth keeping.
One of the biggest benefits that came about as a result of Bosh leaving was that Bargnani got exposed for what he is: A Sixth man off the bench and nothing more. When Bosh was with the Raptors he made it a lot easier for Bargnani to score as Bargnani said. A lot of Bargnani’s sins were passed over by Raptors management because Bosh was able to raise the Raptors to a continual mediocre level.
However when BC let Bosh walk then it took less than one full season for BC to see just how bad Bargnani is if you want to become a solid NBA playoff team.
You might be right about the Raptors and Bosh of course the same argument could be made of Kobe who continually crapped out of the first round of the playoffs while being coached by ""the greatest coach ever" until a mediocre Pau Gasol (who never won a playoff game btw) was handed to them. Enough with the we were going nowhere crap until you can point to a player who won it all on their own. Thank you.
Couple of thoughts...
First great, sober review of the Colangelo era. When you look at it from 10,000 feet, Colangelo made a few good moves in his first offseason as GM and brought in a few vets (namely Parker and Garbajosa) as well as TJ Ford. But, really that was it. And when you exam the Ford aquisition closely, he traded for a pg that was coming off a serious injury, that eventually succumb to his injuries…
But then, that’s it! The rest was either questionable, bad or down right bizzar decision making. For instance, after the team’s initial success (in an extremely weak Eastern Conferance) and first round playoff flame out, he went and signed Jason Kappono with the MLE. This was despite the glarring hole in the rebounding department. When questioned on this, he actually had the stones (or stupidity) to reply that with Kapono making more shots, there wouldn’t be the need for rebounding. Now this is anecdotal, for sure, but this story crystallizes Colangelo’s approach to team building. A pre-disposition to over value shooting, ignoring advanced metrics and the values of defence and rebounding. Basically, Colangelo doesn’t understand how to build a team to win in the NBA.
Other examples of bad decision making and direction not mentioned in Franchise’s article:
- Going into a season with only Roko Ukic and Will Solomon as your back up guards (both players quickly exited the NBA after their tim in TO)
- Bargnani: You can’t talk about the Colangelo era without disecting the Colangelo/Bargnani relationship. Colangelo pre-maturely fired a coach partly because he actually dared to hold Bargnani accountable and hired another one because he was a yes man that would coddle his prized draft pick. He pre-maturely and unecessarily signed Bargnani to a 5 year $50 million contract when there was no one competing for his services in an offseason where even David Lee (playing very well at the time) couldn’t even get a deal. This deal forced Triano to play him despite being one of the least productive players in the league (by many different statistical measures) ahead of more productive players and not hold him accountable in order to not shame his boss (BC).
In conclusion, everything since that first offseason, has been a hot mess. Yes, the drafting of Davis was a great story for the Franchise, but this was more a matter of circumstance and luck than anything (he was passed by other teams and basically fell into BC’s lap). After reviewing these facts, I can’t understand why we would want to place a critical rebuild in the care of BC.
come on. it was luck that brought davis to our laps? what about kevin durant? kobe bryant? paul pierce? rajon rondo?
you cant say BC was “just lucky” cause then you can say that for every other GM. its a lottery, your bound to pick up good, bad, or just decent players.
Fair enough, he didn’t mess it up either, yes. I guess the point I was trying to make was that Davis was a projected top 8 – 10 pick that fortunately fell to 13. But yes, BC didn’t screw it up fair enough.
by MAS11 on Apr 22, 2011 12:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agree with Mas on this – reminded me of BC claiming responsibility for Sonny Weems last year. Davis fell into BC’s lap. Hard to shout too loud about that.
Other GM’s have been “lucky” too in terms of jumping into a position to grab Kevin Durant, but I wouldn’t use Kobe or Pierce in your argument – both were drafted in 1996, perhaps the most loaded draft ever.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Apr 23, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
and
it seems, based on the facts above, BC has been good at making smaller moves but he has completely struck out in big free agent signings and bigger trades. I guess based on the facts it wouldnt be a horrific decision to replace him but i’m still in the camp of keeping him. If nothing else he’s proven he can clean up his mistakes, i.e. bad signings and trades; he’s a very active GM and I love that, always making changes to make the team better. tough decision for the powers that be.
Thanks Member29 – I think the “active GM” piece is something else that people place in the “pro” column for BC. The weird thing is though, he’s been extremely proactive except with Mr. Bargnani…and technically Mr. Bosh.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Apr 23, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Great
Im fine with entertaining the idea of letting BC go, but it all depends on who are going to replace him with. kevin pritchard yes, but other than that i dont see much better out there. and i dont want a rookie Gm to take over, alex anthoupolous is great for the blue jays but its just rare to get one that will actually turn this team into a playoff team at least in the next 2-3 years… at least.
I know many wont agree but i still can see BC turning this team around and actually rebuidling. Plus hes got major connections in the league and is well liked from players (well thats what i kind of got from when JO departed) and GMs. he is quick to recover mistakes (except for bargnani, but from the latest conference, sounds like he may actually trade him). he knows how to make some major trades. he has brought three (past) all-stars to this team, which i know didnt work out but still, more stars than any other gm brought, especially to a team located “across the border.” I just kind of understand why he made those trades and such, everything he did in the past was to accomodate bosh, of course the right skills werent there but it made bosh feel like he can bring star players to the team.
but other than that, the results speak for themselves, and hopefully mlse can get this figured out as soon as possible cause theres no news about this team and im getting bored.
regardless of who takes over
the Raps are still years away from being competitive enough to be contenders.
There is no valid reasoning to say that given what we know… any person will or won’t do a better or worse job than BC. Even if Pritchard takes over, he may very well make mistakes and leave this team wallowing for years to come. MLSE may take some bum of the street give them a job and, with a string of luck, builds a decade long contender. What a team should do is look at what history/experience a candidate has in the business, what potential they show, what they intend to do, and how they plan to go about doing it, and go from there (this also includes Bryan Colangelo). There is no reason why a rookie GM should not be considered. Every GM, just like every player, coach and waterboy, is a rookie at some point in time
As you say “results speak for themselves”…. 22-60 team with the least productive player in the league getting payed 10 mil a year for the next 4 years (and thereby eating at the very least 1/6th of the salary cap over that time… UNLESS ofcourse he is traded, which has not happened yet). Failed FA signings, high risk low reward trade deals, building around weak and flawed players (both Bosh and Bargnani). A spotty (at best) draft record, of which none of the players have shown anything more than “potential”. 2 playoff apperances and 3 total wins. It doesn’t take much to look at his “results” over his 5 years and see it is very lacking. Especially if you consider he is one of (if not the ) highest paid GMs in the league and expects that same pay for 5 more years.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Apr 22, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
"cache"
While BC may well have a cache somewhere, I think you mean cachet.
Too much time in Quebec for University? Just updated, nice catch.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Apr 23, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that MLSE hesitancy in re-signing BC is either/or:
1. The way pampered executives ‘put one of their own on probabtion’;
2. To demonstrate to the fan-base that MLSE ‘actually makes the big decisions’. This is simply to stage-manage the perception that ‘justice is not only done, but seen to be done’ to the majority of the concession-stand-consuming fan-base;
3. To diffuse the venom from those of us who are behaving like venomous little serpents with rattles for a tail, and hence restoring the city of Toronto to the garden of Eden situation – where us (the snakes) get stuck with the apple and a bad rap (about offering the apple to women clothed only in fig leaves)…lol
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
or more realistically its
1. this team is being sold, and this less salary thats in the business, the more attractive it is to potential buyers. And just like BC may not have wanted Mitchell as Coach, the next (potential) owner may not want BC for their GM of the Raptors. (ie. they can make their own decisions as to how the team is run, not allow the previous owners decisions dictate the team for the next X years)
2. BC didn’t meet expectations and now their is actual discussion about whether bringing him back (at the very least for the salary he wants) is a good idea or not.
3. MLSE are more concerned about what MAS and D-Stance think than anyone ever expected.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Apr 22, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re missing a very important point in your list above:
4. BC has not been a successful GM in Toronto and the Raptors were recently ranked worst, that’s right, last (LAST!) out of 30 teams in the NBA in terms of payroll efficiency. That says all you need to know and if I was on the board of MLSE and was responsible for the return on those payroll dollars, I would be looking for another GM.
this is why we should double Colangelos salary... and promote Mauritzio even higher..
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
Keep BC
Until I see a better option presented I am in favour of keeping Colangelo. Before bringing Pritchard on board, I was MLSE, I would want to thoroughly vet his background and convince myself that he didn’t have any dubious ties with agents and that Portland were not fully justified in canning him.
Anthropoulous is an interesting example because he came up through the Jays organization, so before making him the GM they had a very good idea about his character, brains and work ethic. How are Fruitman’s talent evaluating skills? He seems to have a good handle on the salary cap. Maurizio, I like his work in helping Basketball Canada, but I don’t see him as a solution for the Raptors. We have a fine interim solution in Embry, but he is not going to take the job full time. Does anyone want Jim Kelley as GM?
So personally, I would rule out the internal candidates as well as Pritchard. External candidates surely exist, but the minimum standard is that they are available, interested, qualified, hard-working, able to handle MLSE’s corporate BS, and better at the job than BC. If candidates like that exist and it is likely that MLSE will be able to identify them and hire them then I would consider replacing Colangelo. Otherwise, I am happy with most of his recent moves and would fine with giving him an extension (as long as it was contingent on him moving Bargnani).
One last thing, I think Colangelo’s early success with the Euro-direction was heavily based on Garbajosa, Nesterovic and Parker. When those two left the organization, the plan started falling apart. It has taken a while for BC to see that it was the particular players that made that plan work not the sheer fact that they were Euros(ie. you can’t just send any old Euros out there they have to be the right Euros). Now that he seems to have recognized that he is starting to reshape the team in a more promising direction.
Lots of rambling, all to say, keep BC unless an obviously better alternative is out there and itching to take the job.
I agree that Pritchard had some rumours of inappropriate behavior follow him out of Portland. I recall reading something about him not toting the company line on Brandan Roy’s extension, and painting the rest of the organization as the folks that want to key Roy from getting his due. Pritchard seems like the kind of guy that you want kept in check, with an experienced hands on NBA man as the team president. In Toronto GM’s tend to get a large amount of autonomy since the owners know next to nothing about the sport, let alone how to recruit talent in the front office. Someone like Pritchard could play a special kind of havoc here, when he realizes that he can go around those above him to advance an agenda. And this wouldn’t be unprecedented in Raptors history would it. Isiah tried to make a powerplay to own the team. Butch Carter tried to work around Glen Grunwald. There is something to be said for someone who can navigate the politics of MLSE without letting it corrupt them.
I find it troubling that BC is fine with the small moves, but has issues with the big ones. Being able to pull off the big deal or big free agent signing is the whole reason why you bring in an experienced high profile GM anyway. Their part strategist, part recruiter, and part closer, kind of like a college coach. And given the fact we don’t have the “cachet” of more established franchises like the Lakers or Celtics, having a GM who is a celebrity in his won right seems like a good call right? Except, he’s unable to pull off big deals that make the team better. And without that, how is any different then any other GM out there. Victories when the stakes are low are not going to get this franchise beyond the first round of the playoffs. Chances will need to be taken to find our way to the top, and BC has convinced me that he’s NOT the guy you want making those big decisions.
In the interests of avoiding chaos coming out of the lockout, I could see a two year deal with an option being offered by the Raptor owners. Any new GM would likely want to sit back and observe the existing talent, much like BC did when he first arrived on board. Colangelo knows this roster, and knows what he needs to improve. There is no need for a long term deal so he can achieve a five year plan. HIS plan is already in motion and he either advances that plan significantly in the next two years or he’s out of here. And since the pieces he’s collecting this time around have better mass appeal, its not like the next guy will waste the first two years of his tenure dismantling what BC built. The team has pieces that could be used in any number of styles, or team building strategies.
Its too bad about the internal candidates. If we had someone that’s been around for a season or two, they would be able to hit the ground running as well. Maurizio, I have respect for what he’s been able to achieve in Europe. I also have no doubt that he would bring his own vision to the job. However, I don’t think he would get a fair shake in Toronto since he’s reputation is tainted by association with Bargnani.
BC dealing Bargnani
I am feeling very confident that BC will do everything he can to get something reasonable for Bargs on draft day. Hopefully, he’ll be able to pull something along the lines of AB + Barbosa for AJamison (expiring) + Clippers first rounder…
Bargs would look all right next to Varajeo. Maybe Jamison could be shipped to a contender at the deadline, if not they buy him out or let his contract expire.
Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#
by JumpShootersRUS on Apr 23, 2011 2:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
That is a great trade proposal
Accomplishes multiple objectives at the same time:
Aquire furture draft pick
Cap flexibility
Removes to redundant players (Barbosa is redundant due to bayless and Bargnani due to Amir and Ed)
This is a great example of the type of deal I’m hoping whoever is GM can orchestrate in order to rid us of Bargs
I would adjust that by looking for a 2012 first round pick. That draft is going to be deep due to all the withdrawels this year. In addition, I would also rather we only had one rookie make the team coming out of a lockout. No summer league and no training camp is bad enough with one rookie who you expect to see time in the rotation.
Good thinking on Cleveland though, they seem like the kind of team that would take gambles on players that are talented but have a few flaws holding them back. I also think that Dan Gilbert is looking to put some style over substance in place to shore up his ego in the post-Lebron years. Quick, someone send him a mixtape of all the games when Bargs has rained threes on the opposition. And aren’t Varejao and Barbosa already familiar with each other form the Brazilian national team. Instant Chemistry!
THANK YOU
Please start stockpiling 2012 draft picks… I’ll keep saying it over and over until someone figures it out.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Apr 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok then, swap the Cavs 2012 pick for the Clippers 2011 pick. Or Chisholm did not think I was asking enough… Maybe both picks??
Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#
by JumpShootersRUS on Apr 24, 2011 9:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok then, swap the Cavs 2012 pick for the Clippers 2011 pick. Or Chisholm did not think I was asking enough… Maybe both picks??
Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#
by JumpShootersRUS on Apr 24, 2011 9:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
While we are at it lets trade Calderon for Rondo. I am not sure why Cleveland would make that deal. Forget that Barney is at best a 6th man in the NBA, why would they trade for him and another expiring contract (remember Barbossa is an expiring deal too after he re-ups) while giving away a lottery pick or their own lottery pick from a deeper draft? Wouldn’t it make sense for them to use the Clippers pick and keep their own pick from next year? That way they can put some serviceable pieces on the team this year before hitting another home run next year? I mean I understand the desire on our part but really, why would Cleveland do this?
What I proposed was hardly a Calderon for Rondo type idea. Two sixth men types for an aging 6th man(at best) and a 2011 draft pick that comes with no guarantees…
Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#
by JumpShootersRUS on Apr 25, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I would be very happy with Bargs and Barbosa for Jamison + the Clippers Pick OR 2012 the Cavs Pick.
Here are the reasons why I think the Cavs might do it:
1) There owner is competitive and would be getting 2 guaranteed rotation players.
2) The Cavs have Varajeo to pair with Bargs. I think they would compliment each other well.
3) They would already have one draft pick in this year’s draft that I am assuming will be higher than the Clippers pick. If they happen to draft Derrick Williams, they would have two front court players that would be capable of helping mask the deficiencies of Bargnani.
4) There are only 2 guys in the draft that are currently projected to be safe bets to do well in the NBA, so the Clippers pick is a gamble.
Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#
by JumpShootersRUS on Apr 25, 2011 11:37 AM EDT reply actions
I think the Cavs might consider this move if it included this year’s Clippers pick, but would laugh off the idea if it included their own 2012 pick.
That is what I originally thought…
So Bargs and Barbosa for Antawn Jamison and the Clippers pick. That is good enough for me. Who knows, maybe we get lucky and the Cavs throw in a second rounder or a diamond in the rough type too.
If my trade idea were to go through, the Raptors would be left with only one overpaid player in Calderon . Assuming that he is not easy to trade for quality players with reasonable contracts, Jose is an easy guy to keep around during a rebuild. He is unselfish and a good example for the kids. His contract would be up at the end of the 2012-2013 season.
If the Raps handle things well between now and the 2013-2014 season, that is when I think they could begin looking really good…
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by JumpShootersRUS on Apr 25, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not a crazy idea. I am sure that a Bargnani trade will look something like this when it does happen. The funny part of this particular trade would be to see Jamison coming to Toronto 15 years after the Raptors originally drafted him and traded his rights to Golden State.
Btw, JSRUS, do you see any Bargnani trade possibilities with San Antonio or Orlando if they make early playoff exits?
Personally, I don’t think either of those teams have much to offer (that they would be willing to part with).
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by JumpShootersRUS on Apr 25, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with JSRUS. Good options DW19 as they are teams where Bargnani could arguably be hidden on defence, but don’t think the assets/dollars match up. Maybe if a third team was involved?
Yeah, without looking closely at their rosters the only guys I can think of that might be both available and useful would maybe Redick for Orlando and maybe Splitter for San Antonio. There was also some talk about SA moving Parker, but I don’t see that being very likely.
I was thinking of those team more as potentially motivated trade partners than as team that match up well for making a trade.
Barf!
This got me thingking about an "All-Colangelo Team":
Starters
C – Andrea Bargnani
PF – Turkaglu (ya I’m playing him out of position, but he deserves it)
SF – Linas Kleiza
SG – Jason Kapono
Pg – Will Solomon
Bench
C- David Anderson
PF/C – Jermaine OiNeil’s corpse
PF – Nathan Jawai
SF – The Greek guy that was chosen in the second round that can’t even get minutes in Europe
SG Marco Bellinelli
PG – TJ Ford’s corpse
Yes, we need this type of continuity! Re-sign this guy, quick!!





























