Barbosa Odd Man Man Out in Raptors' Backcourt
by Adam Francis on Dec 16, 2011 9:15 AM EST
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Point guard controversy? What point guard controversy? The HQ takes a look at the competitors for the Raptors' starting point guard spot and express their lack of concern over who gets the gig.
More importantly they argue, the team needs to find a taker for Leandro Barbosa...
Last year the Toronto Raptors were not a good team.
This we know, thanks to a myriad of stats.
Oh, and the fact that of the 82 games they played, they won only 22 of these matches.
The problems were everywhere, from offensive stagnation to defensive...ahhh...ok so no defence at all. Throw in some coaching follies, injuries, inexperience, and a schedule that didn't do them many favours, and it's not hard to see why this team was earmarked for one of the league's worst records, before the season even began.
I can remember asking Sonny Weems about this at Media Day and he thought this prognostication by various "experts" was ludicrous.
Unfortunately we fans knew better, and the 2010-11 season was over well before the Raps had been slapped silly by Eddie House and a "big-three less" Miami Heat squad in the team's last game of the campaign.
Bright spots?
Not too many, and Toronto's roster was more akin to the Miss Corpus Christi than Miss America.
However there were some "less ugly" areas, starting with the point guard position.
Yes, it still posted a negative PER in terms of its own production versus that of opponents, but much less so than the other four spots on the floor at -0.6.
Jose Calderon, Jarrett Jack, Leandro Barbosa, Jerryd Bayless and others kept the position on the floor respectable in terms of production, and helped keep the team in games at times.
Calderon was the dominant factor in this equation as while some of his individual statistics declined (points, turnovers, field goal and 3-point shooting percentages, etc) he again provided positive marks in various advanced metrics like wins produced (8.1 WP) and win shares (3.7).
Towards the end of the year, Jerryd Bayless also started to have a positive impact for the Dinos. While not the efficient player that Jose was, Bayless provided some much-needed scoring punch and defense, and many felt that going into this season, the point guard job was his to lose.
This whole situation of course has started up a few "point guard controversy" angles already in training camp, and Raps' fans may have visions of the TJ Ford/Calderon situation all over again.
But I don't think that will be the case.
This team really is a collection of 15 players with about the same level of talent. Is James Johnson that much worse or better of an option than Rasual Butler? And for all of Jose Calderon's offensive effectiveness, is Anthony Carter not going to be a preferable play in various situations, especially in terms of D?
Sure, guys like Ed Davis and DeMar DeRozan may stand out talent-wise.
However neither has shown they're ready to stand head and shoulders above the rest of their competition; DeMar with major strides needed on the defensive end in addition to hitting the 3, and Ed needing a good deal of seasoning at both ends of the court.
This campaign needs to be all about getting a grasp on what Toronto has to work with, the main reason I argued that the loss of a full season would be catastrophic to the club, and to that end, new coach Dwane Casey is just going to have to let things sort themselves out.
Which goes for the point guard position as well.
I expect Calderon to start when the season tips off but that doesn't mean Jerryd Bayless doesn't occupy that spot by year's end. Bayless has a number of attributes that would seem to be a better fit with Casey's moxy, and as the Toronto Sun's Ryan Wolstat recently noted, Casey and assistant coach Johnny Davis have a lot of experience working with Bayless, combo-guard types.
In fact if you could combine Calderon and Bayless into one player, you'd likely get something along the lines of Chris Paul so it may be best for the two to continue to work in tandem; Calderon being the efficient offensive machine, splashing open shots and moving the team's offence, Bayles being the bulldog off the bench, locking down defensively and attacking the rim.
Add the proverbial veteran third-stringer Anthony Carter in, and there are worse situations in terms of point guard combos in the league. (I'm looking at you Miami.)
Who doesn't fit in this mix then?
One Leandro Barbosa.
To me this is where the fan focus should be, not Jose versus Jerryd.
Barbosa can be the most talented player on the court for Toronto on a given night, but I truly believe that Bryan Colangelo needs to find a way to move him somewhere else. He's good enough on this team of unproven youngsters and mediocre veterans that he'll take away precious minutes, minutes that coach Dwane Casey should be dolling out to players like Bayless and even Gary Forbes as the Raptors attempt to determine who stays, and who goes heading into next year's key season.
To a large extent Barbosa duplicates most of what players like Forbes, Bayless and even DeRozan do (good individual offense threat, not much else) so if BC can find a taker for him early in the season, I think that benefits the club in the long run.
Optimally, the Raps end this season with a solid understanding of whether Bayless can play the 1 as a starter in the league, and manage to keep Calderon feeling like he's still a big piece of the puzzle. Calderon is overpaid, but he does produce, something you can't say about many other players on this club, and I'd be fine with having Jose remain a Raptor in a backup role when his current contract ends. In fact a one-two punch of a a young, elite PG in the mould of a Rondo, Westbrook or Irving, with Calderon, the pass-first, risk averse, efficient shooting PG as a back-up, would look pretty good in terms of the club's future would it not?
We're not sure if Bayless can be that elite first option at the 1, but that's what this season should be all about, discovering if indeed he can grab those reigns.
And as mentioned to start this piece, really, Bryan Colangelo and his braintrust have bigger fish to fry at other positions.
I say let Jose and Jerryd play, mix in some Anthony Carter and even Gary Forbes (who played the 1 at times for his national team), and see what happens.
The club's real issues lie elsewhere and considering the respect Calderon and Bayless seem to have for each other, I don't see this being a problem during the season.
The problem will be if we start to see Leandro Barbosa playing 30 minutes a night.
If that's the case, and Barbosa isn't dealt early on, I along with many other Raptors' fans I'm sure, are going to be wondering to an extent, just what the point of this season was.
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Some Have Considered Barbosa
an Amnesty candidate.
He has one season left on his contract because he decided to “opt in”
I have no problem with either giving him Amnesty or trading him for a more appropriate player or draft pick.
I wouldn’t use the amnesty on him, only because it wouldn’t do much for us. We’re not in the luxery tax so using the amnesty isn’t helping us there, and we’re not in a position to take on any more big contracts this year (because we’re rebuilding), so we don’t need the extra cap space.
I’d look to trade him first, then offer him a buyout if that doesn’t look promising. If he accepts, great. If he doesn’t, he can ride the pine for the year for all I care.
I would use the amnesty clause on somebody with a long-term contract that becomes untradeable either through injury or poor play. Nobody really fits the bill right now, but that could always change.
Yep – got to keep that amnesty clause for if Linas never returns to form, or if Bargnani somehow regresses even further to the point that he scuttles his trade value, or if we need to use it on Jose to clear cap space next summer. No benefit to using it on Barbosa.
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Disagree with giving him amnesty – but he is definitely the team’s best chance at acquiring a late round draft pick. He could be quite a piece for a contending team such as the Bulls if one of their guards gets hurt, or several other contenders. If we catch a top team with a young player being underused and needing that scoring boost, we might even be able to score a prospect.
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Other options: NY, Miami, Boston, Atlanta (lost Crawford), Orlando etc… I’m sure there’s a “contender” out there that would be interested in Barbosa for their late 1st rounder. BC should be blazing the phone lines on this one.
New York and Atlanta are especially good options, with the likelihood that they are low in the playoff seedings and their need for a SG (NYK in particular).
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Don’t forget the “Barbosa and D’Antoni reunited!!!!” (yes 4 completely irrational exclamation points) story line. Does NY still have their pick for this year? I remember them trading like 7 1st rounders for Eddie Curry… LOL
In Light Of The Article Here About Chuck Hayes
I think this is interesting
Chuck Hayes Injury Report
SACRAMENTO, CALIF., Dec. 15, 2011 — A recent stress echo test performed on Kings’ center/forward Chuck Hayes revealed an abnormality which will require further testing this evening and tomorrow. An update will be provided as more information becomes available.
Hopefully he will be okay.
MattDevlinRaps Matt Devlin
Raptors preseason game on Sunday 1pm v Boston will be broadcast on Sportsnet! #Raptors #sportsnet
59 minutes ago
Any word on the Wednesday game? Still can’t find if it will be broadcast in Canada. I think we’ll have to settle for a stream of the Celtics TV broadcast.
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Broadcast Schedule has been released.
If you don’t have SportsNet1 or TSN2 you won’t be seeing many games this year.
by Al Bundy is my hero on Dec 16, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Best Bargnani Quote Evah - LOL
The conversation went like this, reporter to Andrea Bargnani, the Toronto Raptors’ seven-foot centre: "How is your game going to change under new head coach Dwane Casey?
Bargnani: "I think we’re going to have to step up defensively. We’re going to have to do a better job because last year we were one of the worst teams in the league. So our defence needs to be much better."
Reporter: "How about your game personally, rebounding in particular?"
Bargnani: "Just like my teammates, we’ve got to get better. Everybody’s got to step up. I’ve got to be a better rebounder for my team as well."
Reporter: "How can you accomplish that?"
Bargnani: "Getting more rebounds."
Reporter: "Yeah?"
Bargnani: "You got another way to accomplish that, just let me know."
RFLMAO
I love pretty much every Bargnani interview – he seems like he completely ignores the questions, especially as they pertain to him directly, and just gives the most textbook answers he can think of. And then when he comes out of his shell on questions like this one, he’s gold then too!
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
no
point is, sometimes, he still speaks Itanglish so, in his head to the question: “How do you become a better rebounder?” he meant replying : “by getting more rebounds, do you know any other way?”
Sure – I don’t care about the why, I just love the end result!
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Great answer, reminds of me JV at the draft.
What do you think of the Chris Bosh comparisons?
Probably because we are both weak.
So true...
I love how every time he is asked about his defense or rebounding he reverts to the auto-pilot answer that the whole team needs to improve defense. Despite the fact he is one of the worst rebounding/defensive forwards in the history of the game of basketball. Way to man-up Bargnani.
How do you be a better rebounder? By getting more rebounds
How do you get rich? By getting more money
How do you become a better driver? By driving better
How do you get laid? By having sex
The philosophical simplicity of his statement completely blew my mind. Andrea ‘no shit sherlock’ Bargnani.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 16, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
I saw that interview
.
Pretty funny actually …. the reporters at that scrum all had a good laugh. Andrea’s English has come a long way.
As for many of the interviews with the players, they’re generally BS pat answers. Useless …. for the most part.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 16, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
James Johnson Is A Big Supporter of Aaron Gray
His new teammates are impressed with what they have seen in the opening week of camp. "Right now he looks the best I’ve ever seen [him look]," said forward James Johnson, who played with Gray in Chicago during the 2009-10 season. "He’s a big strong body, and has a nice touch around the basket.
"We have a lot of finesse players on the perimeter and inside. For him to be a big-body threat … who can pound, then that is going to open [space] up for everybody else."
The knocks on Gray since he entered the league have centred on his weight and mobility. He averaged one foul every 5.53 minutes last season, suggesting he needs to improve his quickness and positioning.
But on a team looking for a defensive presence, Gray is drawing notice.
"I’ve been impressed with him," Casey said.
"His play so far has been great," Johnson said. "I think that him coming along was one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle that we needed."
I Think The Connections and Support Help With Young Players
I think this helps someone like Gray who while he has been a around a bit probably does not have a lot of personal connections among players. So when he goes to a new team and there is a teammate on the new team who is in his corner, ISTM that this is a good thing.
JJ is not going to get AG more time like say a Kobe might but JJ should make it easier for AG to blend in with the other players who may not know him. This should be a positive thing for AG and the Raptors
I’d like to see Gray undergo a Kendrick Perkins-type physical transformation. Drop a bunch of pounds, so he can fit in with the likes of Amir and Davis. But the early returns on Gray seem positive. Another small move on the road to respectability.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 16, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
He is 277 now, down from 290, so that comparison seems apt. Perkins is down to 267 from 298 last season, so that’s certainly similar. Not quite as drastic, but not so high a starting point, and I think Gray has an inch or two on Perkins.
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I can see
Both Calderon and Barbosa being moved on early this year for picks. The Lakers need a point guard and depending on how Hamilton works in Chicago or the 2 guard situation plays itself out with the Clippers, both could be useful pieces to a serious playoff run for a good team. I wonder if this has been conveyed to the likes of Bayless and Forbes, in particular Bayless, which explains his attitude toward the situation. Also to consider is whether Peitrus is still coming in a couple of weeks as was originally reported.
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
There have been conflicting reports, but one out of Arizona is that the deal was put “on hold,” rather than canceled. So I guess there’s a chance the team waives Butler to make room, but I doubt it happens.
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Jack Armstrong
My Christmas Wishes For The Toronto Raptors
LEANDRO BARBOSA: Productivity. This team needs it from you each game at a good percentage offensively and with great awareness/intensity defensively. Be that vet that gives the team the big lift each time out.
DEMAR DEROZAN: Awareness. Teams know who he is now and have watched lots of video on him in this extended off-season. Understand that things will be a bit tougher because folks will game plan based upon you. Figure out what they’re doing and adapt/adjust and grow as a player. It will be fascinating to watch him reach that next gear.
JAMES JOHNSON: Focus. No floating in and out of stretches of games. High standard of performance and productivity each and every day in every aspect of play.
ED DAVIS: Consistency. Every day and every play. No let downs and moments of passive play. Bring it. Beat them to the punch.
The remainder are on the link
The Clippers need a 2 with a short contract. We could ship him there for either Bledsoe or Willie Warren both of whom are cheap contracts (Warren has 2 years, Bledsoe has 3). Most of the other contenders don’t make a lot of sense.
See my post above, I think you could make an argument for NY, Bos, ATL, LA Lakers, San An, Olando (if they keep Howard) all making sense (in a league where even things that “make sense” generally don’t really make sense).
The issue is cap space though. Ideally we would want nothing back but a cheap young player and or a draft pick. The problem with many of the teams you mentioned is they would need to create cap room to take Barbosa on as many are over the cap or in tax territory. The clips could take Barbosa and ship nothing back but picks/cheap contracts.
Raps ranked 3rd on "Five most promising rebuilding jobs" list by Tom Haberstroh - ESPN Insider
“3. Toronto Raptors
Young stud? Maybe | Cap situation? Not yet. | Likely lottery picks? One (Own)
Two words: Jonas Valanciunas. Remember the name, because the center could be the best thing to come out of the 2011 draft — except he won’t make his debut until 2012-13. In Euroleague action last season, he averaged 7.6 points and 5.4 rebounds in 14.9 minutes per game on 71 percent shooting. As an 18-year-old. Translated to 40 minutes per game? 20 points and 15 rebounds. It’s not a stretch to say that the Raptors’ 5th overall pick, who crushed it in the FIBA Under-19 tournament, is a star in the making.
And it might be best that he doesn’t come over just yet. Without him, the Raptors can play out this season and have a shot at another future star in a loaded 2012 draft. The Raptors could have the worst record next season in the NBA, but with Valanciunas in tow and a defensive guru like Dwane Casey at the helm, the Raps could also make the biggest jump in 2012-13. Especially if they land a go-to scorer on the wing. Also, contrary to popular belief, Toronto is not an undesirable destination for free agents. This is a franchise on the rise, though they’re not ready to launch. Yet."
No mention of Davis or DeRozan in that?
Low post with Jonas and Davis could be really good in a couple of seasons imo
You better duck!
You are about to get Buddahfanned! LOL
The way to get rid of Barbosa
Is to be willing to trade him by taking on pure deadweight salary, the obvious catch being that we get a pick back/decent young player. Using the excess salary cap space created by rebuilding with youth will be key to allowing us to rebuild (ala ZombieSonics). It’s a shame our trade exception wasn’t still around.
JC and Barbosa are the two major trade assets, and while they might not seem terribly valuable on their own, the fact that you can have either one PLUS get rid of a crappy contract (or two) valued at up to 12.5 million or 10 million (for the Spaniard and the Brazillian, respectively) should really appeal to some team looking to get rid of a dead weight contract in exchange for a player that could contribute. And that’s what it boils down to – the two of them are simply mis-cast if they have to play an expanded role. But in the right 15-26 minute role on a team that needs either 1) a VERY good backup point guard or 2) a mildly-decent? instant offense guy off the bench. Obviously, Jose is more appealling, but I still think we can get something for them, even if it’s only 2nd rounders or late/super-protected 1st rounders. Get what we can for them – we benefit by their absence, significantly. Firstly, it increases our chances of losing this year, which is awesome.
Secondly, one of the most valuable assets we have to “spend” in the next two years is one of the rarest in the NBA – minutes. We have the chance to run through more guys for longer periods of time to make an evaluation of their potential, which increases our odds of catching lightning in a bottle from an asset that was incorrectly valued by another GM. All of which is a long way of saying,“Bring on the Joey Dorsey and Solomon Alabi Show”!!
I was all for taking a dead weight contract back but only if it is less than 3 years as if it is too long it will interfere with our own ability to get better. If we took back a semi-bad contract (think a useful player who is overpaid ala Nesterovic) then I could swallow a longer term one but ideally we want any bad contracts coming off the books by the end of Jonas and friend’s rookie campaign.
Absolutely agree
Should have included a two year limit on the bad contract.
by RaptorsAddict on Dec 16, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Raptors Fans Have Been Wanting To Dump Jose For Years
I think a lot will depend on how fast and far Jerryd is able to progress this season. As we know in July 2010 the Raptors tried to get Chandler and the fat Diaw for Jose when they still had Jarrett Jack who by the way went for 24-6-6-3 last night.
In any case I don’t see the Raptors moving Jose this season but one never knows.
Amir Is Looking For An Intern - Seriously
heisamirjohnson heisamirjohnson
Yup it’s official! @IamAmirJohnson and the @Young_Onez are looking for an INTERN! for info check out amirjohnson.com/the-intern/
The Intern
Huge Amir fan? Want to join the team?
We are looking for a young intern to join our digital team. This isn’t one of those get-me-a-coffee type of internships either. Not that "mad cappuccino skills" isn’t a totally valid resume entry.
No, here you’ll be updating posts, creating content for our website and generally helping out wherever you can. This is the good stuff.
Also, if you know a thing or two about video editing, let us know. But even if you don’t, and you think you’re the passionate person that we need, get in touch at youngonez2012@gmail.com
Buddah
I’d be your reference but I’m concerned every video will be clips of chairs getting destroyed.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 16, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Retired
Which means among other things that I do what I want when I want and am not beholding to anyone for my time and how I spend it. You should try it. It is incredible not having to be accountable to anyone. Of course if you are married you can’t do it.
The Latest On Who Will Play Center
I saw a tweet last night from one of the Raptors writers saying that Casey had told the writer that Amir will be platooned this season at Center with Jamaal and Grey evidently starting and playing against guys like Howard.
It will be interesting to see
1. If Casey does in fact do this
2. If he does will Amir back up Bargnani at PF in those games creating a possible DNP/CD for Ed in those games.
3. Or will Casey just give Amir the night off.
As the hoops world rumors turn. LOL
Just Playing With You Gals and Guys
I wouldn’t have posted this if you didn’t give me a hard time about some of my other Amir posts. LOL
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