More on Potential Raptors Mickael Pietrus and Gary Forbes
The HQ takes a closer look at Toronto's two new potential acquisitions...
Gary Forbes and Mickael Pietrus.
Mickael Pietrus and Gary Forbes.
Not exactly Shane Battier and the recently bought out Richard Jefferson, but there's a nice ring to it from my perspective.
As mentioned yesterday, both appear to be headed to Toronto, and both make a lot of sense for the Toronto Raptors in terms of what they're apparently trying to do.
Let's go to the check list.
Improve on D? Pietrus helps with that.
Improve 3-point shooting? Pietrus and Forbes can both make teams pay from long-range.
Cheap short-term contracts only? We'll see what Forbes gets but based on current speculation, you can probably check that off as well.
While I'm not expecting either to swing the "playoff tide" for them this season, another check mark incidentally, I do think both are solid acquisitions. Toronto needs to figure out if guys like James Johnson are in the team's future plans and players like Pietrus and Forbes aren't shue-ins to get minutes. They'll provide competition surely for the Johnsons and even the DeRozans, but I think with a young team that management is trying to evaluate, that's a good thing. Colangelo could have tried to go and get a guy like Richard Jefferson ostensibly, but, assuming he would come to TO, said player would simply prevent a thorough evaluation of a James Johnson, not to mention potentially hurt the club's lottery odds.
So this way BC kills two birds with one stone.
He brings in some new players to see if they're solutions for Toronto, and yet ensures that at worst, they provide competition for the current roster to further help management evaluate what they have.
Pietrus of course is no spring chicken, but we've seen over his career that when he's locked-in, he can be a major difference maker for a club. Unfortunately in Phoenix that wasn't the case very often it seems and Suns blogger extraordinaire, Seth Pollack, from SB Nation's "Bright Side of the Sun" gave me his take on Pietrus:
Mickael Pietrus is a very unique person and player. He's a guy Suns fans initially loved after he was traded to Phoenix in the deal that sent Hedo back to Orlando and Vince to the Suns (remember those guys?). He is a funny guy with a big personality who can also be prickly at times and perhaps even sullen if he's not getting his way. He can be an incredible, athletic, wing defender who hits big shots. He can also be a guy who doesn't seem to give full effort and is prone to highly questionable shot selection. In other words, you never quite know what to expect from Mickael Pietrus which is not particularly endearing to coaches. In the right situation, in the right frame of mind he can be a valuable player but looking back at his career it seems those situations have been few and far between. Suns fans won't be said to see him go and frankly, will be pleased to get back nothing in return in exchange for not having to use their amnesty on him.
Oh yeah, Hedo Turkoglu was a Sun at one point...wonder how that happened.
In any event I think the key here will be for Dwane Casey to get Pietrus focused and ready to go. If not, he could be a bit of a Joey Graham for fans; spectacular at times, incredibly frustrating at others.
It's no surprise though that Colangelo went after Pietrus. When BC grabbed Jason Kapono with the mid-level exception a few offseasons back, Pietrus was one of the other players he was strongly considering. I can remember at Media Day that year, asking Colangelo why Kapono over Pietrus, a conversation which of course led to him famously telling the media that despite needing rebounding and defence, he went with Kapono because "Kapono makes shots and if we make more shots, there are less rebounds to get."
Right.
Think he'd want a redo on that now?
The Gary Forbes overtures make a lot of sense as well. Forget that his Draftnet compare out of UMASS was Antoine Wright, but Forbes has the same management group (Octagon) as Joey Dorsey, and of course through former Raptor executive and current Denver Nugget GM Masai Ujiri, BC probably was quite familiar with the star of Panama's Olympic team.
The star of Panama's National team averaged only 5.2 points last year, his rookie season, for Denver, but you may recall him dropping 39 points on our Canadian squad this offseason in a huge victory over the Canucks. He may not be a great defender at this point, his advanced metrics aren't exactly stellar in this regard, but you talk about instant offense?
How about this little gem from the past summer:
This doesn't mean I'm advocating a huge deal for Forbes.
Even with more minutes than he got in Denver, I don't see him being someone who produces 10 wins a year for the club.
But two years with an option for a couple million per doesn't seem like an over-investment, especially given his play at college and upside. Again, he's not a lock-down defender but at 6-7, 220lbs, he's got the ability to be a factor on D and perhaps a year under Casey will do wonders in this regard.
More importantly, I'm of the firm belief that for role players, you should be paying for an NBA-ready skill set, and Forbes has that in terms of his scoring and shooting ability. (Interestingly though, he was only a 67 per cent free-throw shooter last year with Denver, and he only got above that mark once in college, so that's an area he'll need to improve on.)
Of course if Denver matches this offer, all is for naught, and under the new CBA, they have three days to do so. Therefore by early next week (depending when the offer was officially made - no word on this from the Raptors themselves yet) we should know if Forbes is on his way.
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excited about the signing
two good veterans helping us out.
P.S jefferson has yet to be released by the spurs.
It's all OK
The signings are all right. Hoping for some definition about the power forward position with Bargnani, Davis, Amir and even Kleiza when he comes back all apparently best playing the same position and needing minutes, but baby steps, baby steps…
Pretty Sure Amir Starts At PF
and will get all the minutes that he can handle.
Why.
Casey said yesterday “Amir is never out of position on defense. He is a real Pro”
P.S. Now up to 256 pounds of muscle.
I would love to see Amir getting the minutes and Bargnani riding the pines as backup
PF, it would give me great respect for Casey, but I have trouble belieiving it will happen and they have apparently said they don’t want the big Italian at center
Watch and Learn
Casey ain’t no dummy.,
He is not going to sit the Raptors best and strongest player.
SMH
Raps sign
Rasual Butler
apparently
more from someone other than me on this later (I imagine)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 10, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions
Dang, must be hard to write articles when things are changing so rapidly! LOL
I actually prefer the Butler signing over Pietrus as he’s cheaper, we don’t have to give up a pick and he’s not as good (keeping the pick in mind….).
by MAS11 on Dec 10, 2011 12:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was excited about pietrus. Not a big rasual butler fan, but I like that we are not chasing guys that would block the path of future additions.
Talkinf fantasy bball on twitter http://twitter.com/FinalsFantasy#
by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 10, 2011 12:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
okay just read that Pietrus is out and Butler is filling the end of bench role.
A healthy Pietrus would have been good for the Raps tho. Hope the 3rd PG is someone with some upside.
Butler at the end of the bench? I’d figure he’s a solid rotation guy
elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly
I mean, on our squad at least
elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly
Butler Is Washed Up
I watched him play way to often the last couple of seasons with the Clippers. Thank G-d NO got rid of him last season.
He is terrible. The only thing he can do from a positive perspective is occasionally get hot on threes. Unfortunately it is no longer often enough and the rest of his game sucks.
According to thestar.com
:
Every indication I got last night was, after seeing Pietrus and seeing what else was out there, the Raptors might be pulling back a bit and "going in a different direction."
Not sure why, entirely. Maybe the chance to get a younger Gary Forbes came out of the blue; maybe it’s Pietrus’s knee, maybe it’s the money in deal but it’s looking less likely today than it was yesterday.
"Kapono makes shots and if we make more shots, there are less rebounds to get."
LMAO!
Love this quote. Probably the signature statement of Colangelo’s first 5 years as Raptors GM…. Wraps up his missunderstanding of the game quite concisely.
I think its more his complete understanding of Toronto’s mainstream media’s complete lack of understanding of Basketball(he was spinning for the people who like shiny baubles). BC has done a ton of things wrong since he has been here but I would never accuse him of not understanding basketball. GMing Toronto provides unique challenges that I believe BC was not fully ready to handle when he came here and he compounded that error because of the initial success he had the first year.
Think you’re giving him too much credit. If you pair his comment with some of the moves he made (kapono, Turk, Bargnani extension etc.) you come to the conclusion he actually believes what he’s saying in the abovementioned quote. However, that being said, I’ll be the first to admit that some of the recent moves suggest he may have actually learned a thing or two over the last 5 years. It’s just a pitty it took 5 years….
by MAS11 on Dec 10, 2011 12:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If it were anyone else I might go along with that assessment but his father is not exactly a basketball noob and some of that had to roll of onto BC. As I said I just do not think he was really ready for all the things that have happened and maybe didn’t completely understand what he was up against until Bosh bolted. Only time will tell of course but I cannot believe that he is really that stupid when it comes to basketball. He may not always make the right move but he is not ignorant of the game.
I'd like to see Terrico White here on a short/cheap contract.
Something like $800k for the first yr and 1.2m team option second yr. He’s got the physical tools for the game but needs a chance to show what he can do.
Aaron Gray Signs With Raptors
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Aaron Gray has agreed to a one-year deal with Toronto Raptors, league source tells Y! Sports.
46 seconds ago Favorite Undo Retweet Reply
The Arizona Republic, on Mickael Pietrus...
He would be an ideal fit into the international look that Bryan Colangelo has pursued since leaving Phoenix to take over the Raptors’ basketball operations.
"the Truth"
Adds So Far
Forbes
Butler
Magloire
Gray
That makes 14 and maybe a PG to come
So, let me get this straight...
Calderon, Bayless, DeRozan, Barbosa, Kleiza, J.Johnson, A. Johnson, Davis, Alabi, Bar…
And then Forbes, Butler, Magloire, Gray…
So, it looks like goodbye Alabi, Barbosa and Bargnani? *Fingers crossed…
"the Truth"
My lineup using the bodies listed above...
Bayless, DeRozan, Johnson, Davis, Magloire… Starters for the first 5-10 games…
Evaluate performance and adjust…
I expect Amir to take the starter role as Ed takes one more year of development…
Gray and Magloire will be interchangeable…
Bargnani and Barbosa should net us some nice draft picks and maybe a third string PG to boot…
"the Truth"
My starting line up based on reality :) is:
Calderon DeRozon J Johnson Bargs and Magloire
I expect Davis and Amir take up all of the bulk of minutes at the PF&C with Magloire playing low minutes despite starting.
Bayless should be made to earn the starting spot from Calderon.
Davis/Amir should outplay Bargs defensively and one of them take over the starting position at PF
J Johnson needs to maintain his starting spot by outplaying Forbes and Klieza( when he comes back)
This is a weak team for sure tho, worthy of a top 3 draft pick in June by the looks of it.
The element of chance in the draft lottery is the key reason why a deep draft class at the top is the biggest thing I’m cheering for. There are no guarantees that a bottom three team gets a bottom three pick. Look at how things swung Clevelands way with the LA Clippers pick.
Can’t stomach the though of a season full of the kind of dysfunction necessary to get a spot as the worst or second worst team in the league. The kind of poisoned environment that would result just isn’t worth it, especially since we already have young players on the roster.
I’m pulling players on the roster to make progress in their development. The greatest hurdle to the progress of the teams youth movement ( Colangelo parachuting in some veteran players to take key roles in the rotation), has been cleared. If Bayless and Ed Davis turn in good seasons, I can see us staying within the higher end talent hunt even if we aren’t at the very top of the lottery.
The issue isn’t just getting the first pick (which would be dandy) but sealing up a top 4 pick which is what finishing worst guarantees. In deep drafts you want to be in one of those spots to get a franchise player. After that things tend to get a little dicier.
re: Raptors Lottery Chances
I would not dispute this point. The worst team in the league is guaranteed to drop no lower then fourth. Second worst team no lower then fifth, etc.
What I will say is that, just like there is sometimes one team that sets themselves apart with an exceptional roster or GREAT team cohesion, the opposite also exists. For one team to set themselves apart from the other bottom dwellers there are two ways.
1) Have a roster whose individual talents sum total is consistently lacking against NBA competition.
2) A level of dysfunction, either in terms of how the roster was built or the personalities of the players / management, that keeps the team from taking advantage of the resources at its disposal.
I believe that we are too talented to standout according to criteria one and too harmonious to standout according to criteria two. Barring some sort of self-sabotage, I think that we’ll have to rely on lottery luck to get a top 2 pick.
Some past elements of Raptor instability that probably helped our chances in that draft year:
1) Dysfunction Personalities: The Rafer Alston and Sam Mitchell incident(s)?
2) Dysfunction Roster Design: JO’s massive deal, and the resultant salary squeeze which lead to Will Solomon and Roko Ukic sharing backup duties.
3) Dysfunction Personalities: Vince Carter once he’d checked out mentally.
Would you rather have Calderon amnestied or just come off the bench? I don’t like the idea of Bayless as starting PG.
I want Bayless to be tested and a decision made...
Calderon to come off the bench until that decision is made…
No amnesty on Calderon…
"the Truth"
Agreed. Calderon would only make sense (to Amnesty) if we were signing a big name free agent or two and needed the cap space. He is too valuable as an expiring contract in 2013 which is really only 2 years away. Plus we need insurance in case Bayless blows chunks and we need someone to at least run the offense.
Aaron Gray is worth a look on a 1 yr contract. If he does well and stays healthy you
can always extend him on a cheap contract for 2-3yrs. With 14 players on a roster that includes Barbosa and Forbes who can both play PG, I’m not sure we need to go get a 3rd pg at this point. If we do then I suspect they are lining up to trade Barbosa.
I wonder if we could get a mid to late first round pick for Barbosa?






























