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Next Offseason Could be Colangelo's Most Crucial


In his RaptorsHQ debut, Scott Campsall looks at the dilemma facing Bryan Colangelo both this shortened off-season and next...

Star-divide

When the offseason finally begins December 9th Bryan Colangelo, Ed Stafanski and company are going to have their work cut out for them.

The Raptors currently have 10 players under contract for the 2011-2012 season, which leaves at least three roster spots to fill. The Raptors will also have to replace forward Linas Kleiza who will most likely be injured for the bulk of the upcoming season.

According to reports, the salary cap for this season will be set at $58 million. The Raptors should have a total team salary, including cap holds, of about $50.6 million, leaving them just over $7 million in salary cap space with which to pursue free agents and trade possibilities. This number could be higher depending on the type of cap relief the Raptors receive from the league for the injured Kleiza.

This may seem as though the Raptors are in a good position to make some improvements, however the Dinos have a number of troubled positions which will make finding the right moves to make a little more challenging.

At the small forward position the Raptors have some definite questions marks. As mentioned above, Mr. Kleiza is likely out for the year, however he is still under contract until the 2013-2014 season, unless the Raptors choose to use the amnesty clause on him. Sonny Weems is another player that could further cloud the Raptors long term picture at this position. Sonny will be unable to play in the NBA for the upcoming season because he does not have an NBA out clause in his contract with Zalgiris Kuanas, but may still be in the club's future plans. If the Raptors decide that one, or both of these players are in their long term plans, than acquiring a player with a long term contract at that spot is extremely unlikely.

Similarly, at center, the Raptors have Jonas Valanciunas stashed away in Europe this season. If BC believes that Jonas is as good as he has been telling us he is, I can't see the Raptors making a significant offer to free agent centers like Marc Gasol or Tyson Chandler. However, the center position is a glaring hole for the team, and acquiring a defensive anchor is a necessity at this point. This is where we will see exactly how creative Colangelo can be, and if he can bring in a defensive presence on a short term contract.

The Raps seem to be set at shooting guard and power forward, with Demar DeRozan and Andrea Bargnani holding down the starting spots, regardless of how you may feel about these options, and Leandro Barbosa, Amir Johnson and Ed Davis emerging as key contributors off the bench. Even in the event that the Raptors choose to move Bargnani, Davis seems poised to fill in that starting power forward spot where he will bring defense and rebounding, both of which the team desperately needs. Amir Johnson is another interesting player at this position. When the Raptors bring over JV there may not be sufficient minutes for all of those bigs. Sooner or later this situation will need to be addressed, and in all likelihood it will end with one of those power forwards being moved.

Finally, the point guard spot is, and has always been a troubled position for the Raps. Bayless showed promise as a starter late last season, and proved to be a defensive upgrade over Jose Calderon; however, Calderon is making far too much money for a backup and has proved he can be a competent starter on the offensive end of the floor. Although Calderon is an amnesty candidate, I would hazard to guess that BC believes he could get some value out of Jose in a trade, especially to a contending club like the Heat, looking for help at the 1, and isn't willing to simply cut him loose. Eventually, a decision is going to have to be made to solve the point guard problem; in the meantime however, I fear that Raptor fans may be in for another season of point guard by committee.

If Colangelo chooses to plug up the remaining roster spots with short term contracts and save his flexibility for next season, where there will be even more cap space and an even better free agent crop, he will be effectively sacrificing success this season for a better draft pick and possible long term success in the future. On the other hand, if he chooses to go after a big name or two, and uses up that flexibility in the process, he could be sacrificing the future of the team for a few extra wins this season.

Building a winning team from the ground up is not an easy task. This is something Colangelo can attest to; although he has shown the ability to quickly improve the fortunes of his teams, he has been unable to build a sustainable winner and seems to always be looking for a quick fix.

No matter what moves the Raptors' brain trust chooses to make, it is clear that they have some big long term decisions awaiting them. The next few moves they make could go a long way in determining both the future of this team, and the future of Bryan Colangelo.

SCOTT CAMPSALL

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A big man in the middle

Whilst I think Jonas will be the steal of the 2011 draft, I can see BC looking to sign a big man even on a 3-4 year deal.

Jonas won’t be here in 2011-12, whilst he may take a little time to get up to speed once he arrives.

Depending on what Denver do with Nene, and Portland do with Greg Oden, either players could be an interesting signings especially in Portland use their amnesty on him.

At small forward you almost wish that Andrew Wiggins was a little older because he’d solve the SF position if drafted

by CanadianKernow on Dec 1, 2011 9:47 AM EST reply actions  

No way Portland uses their amnesty on Oden, considering he is a free agent, and as such they couldn’t if they wanted to.

We’re weak, but have the bodies for SF – Kleiza, Johnson, and DeRozan can fill out those minutes easily enough. It’s a shame Sonny is overseas, he’d fill that 3rd SG/SF spot nicely. As it is BC will likely have to pick up a bit player on a cheap contract for this year.

As for C, I expect if Colangelo can’t land a Chandler (which I expect he won’t be able to), he’ll sign an Aaron Gray type player – decent C who can hold his own in limited minutes to round out the big man rotation.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Ship has sailed on Sonny

I’m pretty sure that Sonny will never play another game in a Raptors uni. He doesn’t strike me as a Casey-type player because of his inattention on defense and being away for an entire season seals the deal. The Raptors may hold onto his rights for now to use as a chip in a trade but I think they drop those rights if they need to.

by siggian on Dec 1, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus if Weems was in the plans the Raptors would have told him a much and he wouldn’t be overseas trying to improve his NBA stock so to speak.

by McGateway on Dec 1, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Not necessarily – he could just have gone overseas for some money while the NBA was taking a break. He got more by agreeing to stay for the year rather than negotiating an opt-out clause, and had the knowledge that the Raps would still have his rights when he came back.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed about the money issue but I think if he truly believed he was going to be coming back to the Raptors for anything other than the minimum then he would have had an opt-out in his contract. Being a minimum contract guy is not really being in the teams plans as far as I am concerned.

by McGateway on Dec 1, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Weems

I disagree that he is out of the Raptors thinking. I think a lot will depend on whether he learns anything overseas. If he figures out how to choose his spots better and concentrate more on defence then he could be a useful rotation player. Sonny’s 3-point shooting is up in the 40s so far in Euro action.

If Weems comes back with more discipline and a better outside shot then I would like to see him coming off the Raptors bench in 2012-13.

by DW19 on Dec 2, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

If monkeys fly out of my butt i can charge 20 dollars and have a Mexican hooker tap dance to the Star Spangled Banner. The point is that his game is not going to develop enough over one year that the Raptors are going to offer him anything more than a one year min contract and as I have said those are not real plans. I am sure that if any number of guys playing in Europe who failed in the NBA develop any semblance of a game the Raptors and 28 other teams will be interested. That doesn’t mean that teams have “plans” for them.

by McGateway on Dec 4, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

pretty much exactly this.

I just want weems back because he had an awesome beard.

by Justin Azevedo on Dec 7, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think oden should be a guy to target. dude’s glass-no matter how much talent you have, it doesn’t do anything if you’re on the bench the whole time. plus, how does all of that injury time affect his “development”?

by Justin Azevedo on Dec 7, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Kleiza has confirmed that he will be coming back to play in Lithuania while the NBA lockout continues

Kleiza confirms decision to play in Lithuania
22 Nov 2011, 09:24 PM

Linas Kleiza has confirmed that he will be coming back to play in Lithuania while the NBA lockout continues and the only choice left is between Lietuvos Rytas and Zalgiris.

"We’ll see how things pan out. I can’t say that the negotiations are intense, but the situation with Lietuvos Rytas is very clear, but I haven’t heard anything concrete from Zalgiris," Kleiza told 15min.lt.

Lithuanian businessman and professional poker player Antanas Guoga, who is a good friend of Kleiza, is ready to cover both the salary of the player and the insurance-related costs.

Guoga has confirmed that he has spoken to the Zalgiris owner Vladimir Romanov about the opportunity for Kleiza to play in Kaunas, but is waiting for him to field an offer. However, Guoga did admit that the final decision will still be made by Kleiza himself.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 10:02 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah, Kleiza is clearly ready to play this year. So Kleiza and Johnson are available for SF minutes. How effective they will be is a question.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think as dhackett noted, it’s probably going to be more about how effective he’ll actually be coming off major surgery and a big layoff. And who knows what Johnson was up to this off-season. I reached out to him and his agent a few times, nothing, and he was probably the one Raptor I didn’t hear anything about during the break.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 1, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

The latest word on Kleiza is that he hasn’t been cleared to run and will not be ready for the start of the season, but he will likely play this season which would mean that the Raptors definitely will not get any injured player exception. Johnson on the other hand is interesting, i don’t think he is what you would ideally want in a starting small forward at this point in his career, but given his defensive abilities he seems like the kind of player Dwayne Casey would love.

by Scott Campsall on Dec 1, 2011 10:47 AM EST reply actions  

Link please

The latest word on Kleiza is that he hasn’t been cleared to run and will not be ready for the start of the season

Remember that BC originally wanted to draft James Johnson. ISTM that BC and Casey will give James Johnson a very good hard look this season regardless of what happens with Kleiza and his return to the ACC.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Tyson Chandler's trail of one-and-done

This is from yesterday on ESPN – Dallas Mavericks Report. I hope that BC finds a way to make this happen. ISTM that if BC tried to trade for Chandler last season and with Casey being the Raptors new coach that BC will be making a very hard run at acquiring Chandler before the 2011-12 season starts. JMO

Free agent Tyson Chandler dropped a bombshell Wednesday night, mere hours after teams were permitted to begin talking to player-agents. Chandler told ESPN.com’s Marc Stein and Chris Broussard that he does not expect to be a member of the Dallas Mavericks when training camps open in little more than a week.

“I would like this to be settled by early next week,” Chandler said. “I want to be in camp with my new teammates as soon as possible.” …..

In the end, where Chandler plays this season will be up to him. Right now, the man who helped prevent another one-and-done season, has left a trail of evidence that he will be one-and-done in Dallas.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 10:54 AM EST reply actions  

Sam Amick: Chandler clearly expects huge payday. I was told today that the type of $ figures his camp threw out there today were through the roof. Twitter
Rumors tagsDallas Mavericks, Free Agency, Tyson Chandler

This could put him out reach for MLSE and the Raptors

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

are you on the camp

of those who want to see this happening? I would have thought otherwise

by renato on Dec 1, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure Am

Not sure why you would have though otherwise.

Since it is not my money MLSE can spend as much as want on Chandler. LOL

I am a defense first fan. Have been since the Detroit PIstons “Bad Boys” and the Tarkanian UNLV Running Rebels Final Four Days around 1990. Those UNLV teams played a great three quarter court pressing defense.

That is why I want Bargnani out of T-Dot ASAP and right now I have DeRozan on a short rope before I add him to the “Trade him now” list.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm "defense first" as much as the next guy...

But if your own twitter link above is correct, I as a Raptors fan, don’t want the Raptors giving Chandler a near max deal.

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

It's an uphill battle, yes... but it's also all uphill from here...

PG – Start Bayless, test his worthiness… Use Jose in a trade to get a 3 point specialist to backup DeMar, draft the next great PG in 2013 Draft if we can’t pick up an extra high pick in 2012 Draft

SG – DeRozan starts obviously, trade Barbosa to acquire a backup PG

SF – Johnson is a good starter on a mediocre team here… Kleiza backs him up… Draft Harrison Barnes for future starter responsibilities…

PF – Start Davis, backed up by Amir… Lock em in for as long as we can…

C – Start Bargnani, backup with Ajinca (temporarily)… sign a long term backup quality C (Aaron Gray, Ryan Hollins?), trade Bargnani, hail the coming of Jonas

So for this season…

PG – Bayless / Calderon / Trade Acquired Backup (?)
SG – DeRozan / Barbosa / Trade Acquired Backup (?)
SF – Johnson / Kleiza / FA Shooter (?)
PF – Davis / Johnson
C – Bargnani / Ajinca / FA Reserve (Gray/Hollins)

If Jonas turns out to be great and we add a Harrison Barnes, a future PG, and get some shooters (at least one specialist, but hopefully 2)… I really like our roster going forward…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

Alabi will likely be backing up the C spot. Doubt Ajinca gets brought back.

Jose, if he is traded, will likely be traded next summer or at the 2013 trade deadline as an expiring contract. Barbosa, similarly, will likely be traded at this year’s deadline. Hopefully for a high-teens pick.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

If The Raptors Don't Sign or Trade For Another Big

then IMO they will go with a three man front court rotation which will exclude Alabi. IMO they should buy him out because I think he is a terrible player with very little upside to his terribleness. LOL

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

The Raps coaches and management disagree with you, based on what we’ve heard from them late last spring.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Buddahfan, I guess you are basing your opinion on his college play because the NBA sample size is too small to draw any conclusions.

Alabi is not a big contract guy. I’d like to see him get a bit more of a look before they cut him loose.

by DW19 on Dec 2, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure, Alabi/Ajinca... makes no difference...

Either way it’s a stop-gap until we get JV starting / Gray (Hollins) backup…

And exactly about picking up some draft picks…

If we could land Harrison Barnes and Marquis Teague or Jordan Taylor for example, and have acquired a few good snipers… I love that roster…

Teague / Bayless
DeRozan / James Jones
Barnes / Johnson
Davis / Johnson
Valanciunas / Hollins

That team, once gelled, would make a hell of a run…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

It would be great to hear something about Alabi…I mean, based on last year, he looked Hoffa-esque in many ways, and years away from even being a decent back-up.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 1, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Start Davis Ahead of Amir

I guess you really want the Raptors to have the #1 pick next June.

Personally I have never been very fond of rooting for a team to tank.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Here Read This If You Want To Learn The Truth

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9780

Amir’s is ranked #48 in the NBA despite his playing the last two month of 2010-11 on one good ankle.

Saying that Ed Davis is better than Amir is not even being in a fantasy world. It is being in another dimension of reality, like a Timothy Leary reality.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Fact is, Ed Davis has a much higher potential than Amir...

sure, last season Amir was “better”… he also has heaps more experience…

Davis could be equivalent to Andrew Bynum given time and strength…

Amir well, is going to be equivalent to Amir… which is considerably less than Bynum…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Easy kids!

Buddha, in many ways, we’re just going to have to see what cards Amir is dealt this season in terms of minutes but I’m pretty confident talking to people around the team that management is higher on Ed’s potential than Amir’s.

What’s frustrating is that I’d rather see Amir and Ed get the bulk of minutes this season but you know that Bargs’ situation is really going to factor into all of this.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 1, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

This is my major bone with Bargnani sticking around (besides the fact he generally is bad at playing basketball). The 7 ft Italian Elephant in the room is that his presence stunts the growth and development of Ed and Amir.

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Here’s where I hope Casey has the ‘nads to sit him for stretches if he doesn’t give the effort. It’s the best case scenario if that is the case – either Bargnani finally improves, with his minutes on the line, or much more likely, the other two get the minutes they need.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

That would be the best case scenario and I am sure Casey would be willing to do that. The question is whether management would back him up.

by DW19 on Dec 2, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

That is exactly the question…

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

i would definitely take amir johnson ahead of stephen curry, rudy gay, brook, lopez, eric gordon.

i just have a problem with a ranking system that ranks brian cardinal ahead of jose calderon.

by Shalax23 on Dec 3, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

hope everyone sensed my extreme sarcasm.

by Shalax23 on Dec 3, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

do NOT besmirch Brian Cardinal....

Up in the skyscrape, me and my apes, bake cakes.

by Jenge on Dec 3, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

you forgot to BARGS at the end.

by McGateway on Dec 4, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I would sign up for this plan.

Critical elements of your plan above:
- Bargnani HAS to go by the deadline or next offseason and Ed and Amir HAVE to stay. Trading one of the latter would set the franchise back years…
- Love the idea of drafting Barns. Think his shooting and athleticism would be a good fit with DeRozan on the wings.
- There are also a few good PGs that will be available in the teens of this upcoming draft (Myck Kabongo being one of them)

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea, there are quite a few tantalizing PG's coming up...

Even if they aren’t some elite scorer, if they can control the ball and play serious D, sign em up…

I think we could steal a kid like Dexter Stickland out of UNC and he would be a great player…

He defers scoring to his more talented teammates but he locks down on his man and has a decent head on his shoulders…

He isn’t projected to be a top ten pick, so if we can pick up a second first round pick we have a decent chance of snagging him…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Would you make a play at Caron Butler?

Start him ahead of Johnson this year and then transition Barnes into the starter role?

Barnes / Butler at SF sounds like a lethal combo moving forward… with J. Johnson for cheap insurance…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m actually higher on Johnson than a lot of others. I think he is the sort of tough minded, multiskilled player that would make for a good role player. He can handle the ball, has decent vision, is athletic and has all the tools to play good defence. He’s a stat stuffer and can potentially contribute in many ways. He has glue solid glue guy potential. Oh and he’s like a 9th degree black belt Kung-fu warrior as well. Doesn’t hurt…
I also am a fan of Caron "Tuff Juice" Butler. However, I’m against signing ANYONE to long term contracts or to a significant cap value until we understand the draft situation after this year.

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Johnson is a passable starter for this team as it currently stands, and would be a great energetic backup if we end up with a player like Harrison Barnes after this draft. I really liked what I saw from him last year. Hopefully he comes into camp gunning for the majority of minutes at his spot.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

For the start of things though...

Kleiza won’t be playing until after January…

Who do you figure we pair with Johnson?

I like James too btw… I would love to see him become more than he has been, but my gut tells me he’s a utility (albeit integral) bench glue guy…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

After January? He’s already cleared to run – I thought reports were that he’d be playing about a month from now – which would be roughly the start of the season. He’ll be rusty having not gone through training camp, but he should be able to challenge for minutes fairly early on.

BC will need to sign a third string wing to cover the SF and SG spots when we need it. Also, until Kleiza can back up Johnson with good minutes, DeRozan can spend some time at SF as well as SG.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, in January...not after

but just that he wouldn’t be playing the first stretch of games…

I could be wrong though…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

There will probably be two, maybe three games in December. Those are the ones he might miss, if the reports are accurate. Could be his recovery is slow, and he misses more games. Point being, he’ll be there for a good chunk of the season – you’re not signing someone to replace his role (backup SF) but to fill in for him – ie the third string SF.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. Think Julian Wright sort of playing time. Bit minutes in most games (if that), more in the case of injuries.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, ideally when we draft Barnes, Johnson is playing a 6th man role. Who do we get for the time being? Hey, if Tuff Juice will sign for a 2 or 3 years $3 mil per deal, go for it! That’s the type of cash the Raps should be looking to spend and the length as well. Either way, ideally it would be a place holder for something grander down the road.

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, in all seriousness, that wouldn’t be a terrible option at a min salary…

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Good option to fill in as that 5th wing.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Umm, I’d take Wright over Klieza even on a permenant basis. Wright was significantly better than Kleiza last year. And before you go to the “Kleiza was injured” arguments, do you think Kleiza will come back BETTER after a near career ending knee injury?

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

From a square-one standpoint you make sense...

But Kleiza is under contract and Wright isn’t…

So while we are paying Kleiza I wouldn’t add Wright… that’s all

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure, but if you can add Wrigth for $800 Gs why not? You’re going to need options at the swing position. At least for this year. By the way I’m working under the assumption that AAmir at the 3 is a ridiculous idea and only makes sense if you are wrongheadedly forcing him there to make sense at the PF spot for he who should be amnestied/traded/waived out of town.

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

But Amir can play EVERY position... ...Bargs!

Seriously though, I get what you’re saying, and I don’t disagree…

All I am saying is IF Kleiza is in playing condition (as well or poorly as he performs) you play him as Johnson’s backup, because he’s under contract for real money…

The only way I sign Wright, or any other SF, is if Kleiza is broken… in THAT scenario I would consider Wright, but I think there may be better options for just as cheap if you look hard enough…

Remember, we both agree that playing the low-level talent as hard and long as you can gives us the results we want, while trying really hard to win at the same time…

As long as the guys on the roster play to win, the mentality is right, and as long as management keeps the talent pool requiring water-wings, we get our draft pick…

So, saying Wright is better than Kleiza only helps to avoid signing him to any more than a ten day stint or two…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

or a Tayshaun Prince?

Throw in Chuck Hayes, Jeff Foster, Shannon Brown, Luc Mbah a Moute, Jonas Jerebko and bring back Reggie Evans … to make an instant cup of nasty joe.

amnesty Bargs to free up all those $$$

Up in the skyscrape, me and my apes, bake cakes.

by Jenge on Dec 1, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

My mistake he has been cleared to run, but isn’t ready to play. From Doug Smith
http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/

James Johnson’s a backup, in my books; Kleiza’s not ready (cleared to run, likely not on the court for a month); I can’t see a scenario by which Julian Wright comes back and Sonny Weems is in Lithuania so …

by Scott Campsall on Dec 1, 2011 11:32 AM EST reply actions  

Harrison Barnes 2012

Thanks for the greetings, and looking forward to getting back in the mix soon. Been super tied up with a zillion things and coaching has gotten me tied up.

it may be till 2012 till I make the full comeback! ;)

> That Barnes game vs Badgers was pretty impressive!!
> Though has anyone seen Jared Sullinger (Ohio State)lately? He’s been influenced by MMA training, lost a ton of weight and doesn’t look to be a tubby mess. Loving his improved post game.

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 11:36 AM EST reply actions  

Are You Another Tanker?

Yes Barnes has looked pretty good so far this season. No doubt about it. Though I hope the Raptors improve enough in 2011-12 so that they won’t be in the running for Barnes next June unless they get a lucky ping ball bounce.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup, let’s hope they improve just enough to not make the playoffs and miss out on a franchise altering prospect that could make them a perennial all-star team. That would be awesome. That way we as fans could toil by watching a 30 -35 win team for the foreseeable future with no hope of getting the bluechip talent we need to move forward. What an awesome plan. Where do I sign up for this kick in the balls type of experience?

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

OMG.. I’m agreeing with MAS! :)

OMG.. I’m agreeing with MAS! :)I’ve been on the Barnes wagon since.. since I saw him at the McDonald’s All-American when him and Irving smoked everyone.

OMG.. I’m agreeing with MAS! :)I’ve been on the Barnes wagon since.. since I saw him at the McDonald’s All-American when him and Irving smoked everyone.Bball is all about game changers. And we haven’t had one since VC. If all goes well, a team of Jonas Bro and Barnes at least gives up some real hope for the future (no guarantees of course). I’m not sure if a James MacAdoo or Tyler Zeller (Future Target) or even a Thomas Robinson will get me to buy season tix again.

OMG.. I’m agreeing with MAS! :)I’ve been on the Barnes wagon since.. since I saw him at the McDonald’s All-American when him and Irving smoked everyone.Bball is all about game changers. And we haven’t had one since VC. If all goes well, a team of Jonas Bro and Barnes at least gives up some real hope for the future (no guarantees of course). I’m not sure if a James MacAdoo or Tyler Zeller (Future Target) or even a Thomas Robinson will get me to buy season tix again.I will accept reluctantly any slew of PFs coming out this year (Davis, Drummond, Sullinger, Jones, Robinson, Henson) but they’re not game changers, but decent BIG men projects ala Jonas Bro.

OMG.. I’m agreeing with MAS! :)I’ve been on the Barnes wagon since.. since I saw him at the McDonald’s All-American when him and Irving smoked everyone.Bball is all about game changers. And we haven’t had one since VC. If all goes well, a team of Jonas Bro and Barnes at least gives up some real hope for the future (no guarantees of course). I’m not sure if a James MacAdoo or Tyler Zeller (Future Target) or even a Thomas Robinson will get me to buy season tix again.I will accept reluctantly any slew of PFs coming out this year (Davis, Drummond, Sullinger, Jones, Robinson, Henson) but they’re not game changers, but decent BIG men projects ala Jonas Bro.It’s a huge drop off from Barnes to Quincy Miller or Terrance Jones.

OMG.. I’m agreeing with MAS! :)I’ve been on the Barnes wagon since.. since I saw him at the McDonald’s All-American when him and Irving smoked everyone.Bball is all about game changers. And we haven’t had one since VC. If all goes well, a team of Jonas Bro and Barnes at least gives up some real hope for the future (no guarantees of course). I’m not sure if a James MacAdoo or Tyler Zeller (Future Target) or even a Thomas Robinson will get me to buy season tix again.I will accept reluctantly any slew of PFs coming out this year (Davis, Drummond, Sullinger, Jones, Robinson, Henson) but they’re not game changers, but decent BIG men projects ala Jonas Bro.It’s a huge drop off from Barnes to Quincy Miller or Terrance Jones.So…

OMG.. I’m agreeing with MAS! :)I’ve been on the Barnes wagon since.. since I saw him at the McDonald’s All-American when him and Irving smoked everyone.Bball is all about game changers. And we haven’t had one since VC. If all goes well, a team of Jonas Bro and Barnes at least gives up some real hope for the future (no guarantees of course). I’m not sure if a James MacAdoo or Tyler Zeller (Future Target) or even a Thomas Robinson will get me to buy season tix again.I will accept reluctantly any slew of PFs coming out this year (Davis, Drummond, Sullinger, Jones, Robinson, Henson) but they’re not game changers, but decent BIG men projects ala Jonas Bro.It’s a huge drop off from Barnes to Quincy Miller or Terrance Jones.So…Barnes 2012!

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

wtf

what’s with this weird posting thing again?!?! I thought it got fixed.

OMG.. I’m agreeing with MAS! :)I’ve been on the Barnes wagon since.. since I saw him at the McDonald’s All-American when him and Irving smoked everyone.Bball is all about game changers. And we haven’t had one since VC. If all goes well, a team of Jonas Bro and Barnes at least gives up some real hope for the future (no guarantees of course). I’m not sure if a James MacAdoo or Tyler Zeller (Future Target) or even a Thomas Robinson will get me to buy season tix again.I will accept reluctantly any slew of PFs coming out this year (Davis, Drummond, Sullinger, Jones, Robinson, Henson) but they’re not game changers, but decent BIG men projects ala Jonas Bro.It’s a huge drop off from Barnes to Quincy Miller or Terrance Jones.So…Barnes 2012!

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

lol, and with me...

Where are the hidden cameras?

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

wtf.. and you too?!?! What is this world coming to? ;)

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You finally started making sense I suppose…

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

no no.. you people are on drugs. I’m sure since I’ve been gone, that you guys have had time to hop up on some crazy juice. :) My stance has never changed.

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus what you guys are really agreeing to with me is that, building a winning Basketball franchise is as much to do with complete luck than almost anything else.

So all the BC this, and BC that was a waste of time. LeMarcus vs Bargs. Derozen vs Terrence Williams. Hedo vs no Hedo. Triano vs Mitchel vs Thibadeau. BC vs McMillan.

All those arguments would most likely would have had minimal impact to where the franchise would be today.

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, it was you agreeing with me if you remember. And while obviously luck plays a role, the difference between ultimate success and mediocrity is in the management of assets. So to think that you could plug any GM in anywhere and everything is simply a factor of luck is silly. So the arguments (discussion or debate as I would call it) have value as at many points BC could have gone in any number of different directions with any number of different outcomes.

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

it looked to me like...

you went back in time to hear yourself really saying it and still could not believe it so you had to do it several times. However I can’t blame you, it would be the same for me :)

by renato on Dec 1, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Havent you gottent the memo Mas – Amir Johnson can save this franchise all by himself. I predict that Amir Johnson practiced his 3 point shot and will be leading the league in 3s this season along with leading the league in rebounding, block shots, scoring and hyperbola. Raptors sweep everyone based on Amir’s ability to do it all and the Raptors win a championship despite having no real talent or all-start quality players on the roster (other than Amir that is).

by McGateway on Dec 1, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Hyperbola. That’s a hilariously geometric way of looking at Amir.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Some truths, some myths ..... and Do we move forward now, or next year

Even in the event that the Raptors choose to move Bargnani, Davis seems poised to fill in that starting power forward spot where he will bring defense and rebounding, both of which the team desperately needs.

This statement has a lot of truth in it, as well as a certain amount of myth – all tied together. Rebounding (Bargnani aside), is not our issue. Toronto issues – in relation to this – are:

  • Opponent fgm average. Raptors were the 8th best team in shooting (.465), but unfortunately were the 2nd worst team in opponent scoring (.482) – that`s defense (or lack thereof).
  • 3 pt Shooting – Despite our overall good shooting, Raptors were last in 3 pt shooting, along with 3rd worst, in allowing perimeter shots. Again …… that`s defense. To me, this was our most serious issue (making them & allowing them). It affected our inside offensive game (imagine our scoring being even better), as well as our defensive response.

IMO, Toronto`s numbers did not reflect a 22-60 team. One can only imagine how Raptors would’ve fared, had we not experienced an unusual multitude of injuries that dramatically affected this team. For a collection of players that was lean on talent, it’s easy to understand the 2010-11 record.

If Casey can bump up the defensive strategy & play-book, Toronto – pending who they pick up (scraps or legit players?) – should have a better season. We can`t get worse when it comes to perimeter offense & defense, so one has to assume we`ll get better.
.

Amnesty & Free Agency

For those who believe we should tank (quietly or not), and personally I think tanking is an affront to anything or anyone who’s a true sports enthusiast – BC will need to weigh adding talent now, versus next season. Colangelo needs to assess:

  • Quality of talent in amnesty (especially if it’s cheap)
  • The amount of Amnesty ’free agents’
  • The quality of ’free agents’, or more so, the availability – how does Amnesty affect normal Free Agents.

If the best route (for BC), means being more aggressive this season, with it somewhat affecting our draft position next year, then so be it. We already have a top pick in our pockets (Jonas), and with a strong draft, who’s to say Brian can`t wrangle a second 1st round pick.

With all the focus on getting a Star in the next draft, we need to remember some relevant (and not so relevant) facts:

  • Bosh was a Star – where`d that get us.
  • Carter was a Super Star – where`d that get us
  • Jersey had the worst record (2010 draft) – 4th overall pick
  • Cleveland had the 2nd worst record last year – but got the 1st pick because of 8th (last) place Clippers.

It goes without saying that Toronto is doubtful in making the play-offs, despite my feeling it should be our goal. That in itself will get us into the lottery – where anything can happen.
.

by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 1, 2011 12:18 PM EST reply actions  

My approach to the season

Will be tranquil. I want the Raptors to win every single game that I watch. But after each loss, I will be at peace knowing that each one will help the odds of the Raptors acquiring a very good to great player in the next draft. And I suspect there will be many many bad losses.

The most proven way win a championship is to have one of the best players in the NBA playing for you. These players are hard to acquire because teams don’t usually trade them or they are hard to fit onto a good team as a free agent because of the salary cap. The best way right now for the Raptors to get one of these players is to get lucky in the lottery, and that means the Raptors need to acquire as many lottery balls as possible. It’s not guaranteed though. If the Raptors don’t get that player in the next draft or two, they could try the Piston’s approach, which is to assemble a strong overall team, which still means you need to draft very good players to fill out your roster. Even if they miss the franchise player, they should still be able to do this Plan B.

by siggian on Dec 1, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I am no proponent of tanking...

I don’t think many here actually are…

What we are advocates of is baby steps…

It’s like mock drafts having the Raptors selecting a PF in the last draft and the next 2… despite the obvious fact that that is our one strongest position…

We don’t need to sign a Tyson Chandler right now, wasting valuable money that could bring in talent at a more lacking position, IF JV is as good as he looks to be…

Baby steps…

We don’t NEED to get a new point guard in the next 30 days… we NEED to truly evaluate Bayless’ future…

Baby steps…

We could use another body at SF… an upgrade over Johnson would be a bonus, see what’s available…

We should get shooters… although I think we’ll have to settle on more one dimensional players… hopefully we can land someone who can hit the three at a 40% clip and plays defence… it would be nice…

In all likelihood, no matter which changes we can make right away, the team will need time to figure out how to play with each other, and under a new coach… so for all the realists that are on this site…

Lottery here we come…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet if we finish from 11th worst to 14th worst we definitely wont win the lottery. As for your other points about Carter and Bosh, if you had been paying attention you will have seen that many of us have stated this team needs to be bad enough to draft high over at least 2 seasons and either get a good FA/Trade or lucky with a non-lottery pick for a potential franchise player (Rondo, Parker).

by McGateway on Dec 1, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Can someone help me here

Name a team whose fanbase has wholeheartedly subscribed to tanking that ultimately became championship caliber?

Think of the perpetual bottom dwellers of the last few years, Clippers, Minnesota, etc. I would argue the prospect of those teams being considered championship caliber any time soon is limited, even with their having used an abundance of draft picks. Mention of Memphis reminds me of how a lot of people viewed Portland before last year, and even the enthusiasm for the Grizzlies has to be tempered somewhat given that it was the consequence of a Zack Randolph extension seeking renaissance and a Marc Gasol (losing a lot of weight before his free agent year) career performance.

My point is there are no automatic, easy to replicate paths to championship glory, so to be so onside with the notion of throwing away the season because the draft is supposed to be good is not something I’m on board with considering that so many variables are at play.

Of the last few years in terms of projected talent, the Sacramento Kings in drafting Evans and Cousins realized the best possible scenario of any teams having to suffer through bad seasons but how far away are they from playing for a championship?

My approach?

Get in the habit of realizing the most out of the talent you have, playing an identifiable brand of basketball rooted in a sound, cohesive philosophy that utilizes your players strengths, with the aim of winning every game. This way you will find those already in your system with the capacity to contribute to championship level play or at least allow these players to show the best of themselves so that you can trade them for better value.

Tanking for the sake of getting a chance at supposed franchise players (strange how some view every player projected to be in the top of a given year’s lottery to be automatically way better than all of the players already on our team) isn’t something I’ve seen work in the NBA context.

Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.

by HQ Interloper on Dec 1, 2011 1:16 PM EST reply actions  

Cleveland Cavaliers, with one guy...almost did it...

Very long shot that that the next Lebron is in Raptors Red any time soon…

Because? Well, I haven’t heard of ANY player being the next Lebron any time soon…

I agree wishing on a star does not a contender make…

But prudent planning based on statistical analysis indicates we’re heading for another lottery spot, at least once, before change in franchise fortunes is realistic…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Howard – Orlando
Shaq – Orlando
Dirk – Mavs
LeBron – Cavs
Derek Rose – Bulls
Durant – Thunder
Nelo – Nugs
Yao – Houston
Duncan – Spurs

It’s no guarantee — there’s always bad draft classes like Bargs, Kwame Brown, K Mart I, but how many teams are successful without coming from a high draft?

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Gambling and gambling

on the Big prize.

Howard – Orlando
Shaq – Orlando
Dirk – Mavs
LeBron – Cavs
Derek Rose – Bulls
Durant – Thunder
Nelo – Nugs
Yao – Houston
Duncan – Spurs

  • Howard – 2004 – 1st pick (Orlando) – he’s still waiting for the big prize.
  • Shaq – 1992 – 1st pick (Orlando) – he was a beast his first year (23.4 pts – 13.8 rebounds)
  • Dirk – 1998 – 9th pick (Milwaukee) – now with Dallas
  • LeBron – 2003 – 1st pick (Cleveland) – now with Miami
  • D. Rose – 2008 – 1st pick (Chicago)
  • Durant – 2007 – 2nd pick – OKC
  • Carmelo Anthony – 2003 – 3rd pick (Denver) – now with New York … over-rated (IMO)
  • Yao Ming – 2002 – 1st pick (Houston) – podiatrist’s dream
  • Duncan – 1997 – 1st pick (San Antonio)
  • Kobe – ADDED him to the list – 1996 – 13th pick (Charlotte) – now with Lakers
  • Wade – ADDED him too – 2003 – 5th pick (Miami) – now playing with 1.5 Superstars

Of these 11 Stars – and yes there are some others – these are the facts:

  • Aside from 2003, ONLY 3 of these Stars were drafted in the past 10 years
  • 5 of 11 didn’t stay with their drafting team
  • 5 of 11 have championship rings

IMO, we have better chance of winning a title – ala Detroit’s method – then we do of landing a quality Star player who matches some of the credentials from this above list. Hence, I believe we should build our team with:

  • our current roster (with some tweaks)
  • someone this year – from the free agent list (including amnesty players)
  • what we have coming next year (Jonas), and
  • what the draft will bring us – without tanking, or “adjusting” for a high pick

JMO

by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 1, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Lets look at the top 4 in each conference:

Bulls: What were they like pre Joakim but more importantly Noah
Miami: Tween years between championship and Wade
Boston: Remember pre-Pierce?
Magic: Pre Howard? (19 consecutive losses at the end of T-Mac era)

Thunder: pre-Durant? heck they moved the whole franchise.
Lakers: A rare exception with a mid draft of Kobe. But there were some lean years before Kobe was Kobe. And how many Kobes have been drafted mid round?
Spurs managed to do it twice: The ugly years from 85-89 until they got the Admiral. Then they hit the jackpot in 99 and got Duncan, and for 22 years, he’s been leading that era!
Mavs: The 90s Pre Dirk.. was.. well Mashburn and Jimmy Jackson. To say bleak??

Sooo.. Barnes.. 2012! :)

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Bulls: meant to say Rose.. obviously.

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

lets take it to another level. Site me an example since 1980 that a Championship team didn’t draft a high pick. I can only name one maybe 1.5.

80s Lakes: Magic
80s Celts: Bird
80s 76sers: Malone
90s Detroit: Isiah
90s Bulls: Jordan
90s Rockets: Hakeem
90s-2000s Spurs: Duncan
Celts: Pierce
Heat: Wade

The only team that really did it ONLY thru acquisitions was the 04 Pistons. Bringing in Wallace and Atkins for Grant Hill. Signing Billups. Getting Rip from the Wiz, and Rasheed mid 04.

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

ooppss.. and Laker’s Kobe.

by Ustation on Dec 1, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I look at the Bulls...

and think Allen Iverson’s 76ers when Iverson was in his prime. Yet, in retrospect, he is not so highly regarded and his impact has been all but forgotten

Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.

by HQ Interloper on Dec 1, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I would agree to a point

There is something uncomfortable about “tanking” Its like throwing a fight. You’ll find that the majority of readers here are all for building over years. I’m for establishing a winning mind set which says we never settle for losing and spending now to do that. When you say that here it’s like stirring a hornets nest – you’ll get ridiculed pretty bad so be carefull with that.

by raptball on Dec 1, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

need to seperate

“tanking” from “development”.

Its one thing to let your players play and learn… its another to intentionally throw games. I don’t think anyone expects this team to actually throw games. I think they expect BC to NOT go out a find a player to add a few more wins to the total.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 1, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Where “NOT go out and find a player to add a few more wins” = “NOT go out and overpay a player on the decline to eat up the minutes our young players need, add on a few wins, but not enough to make any real difference except to our draft spot, while not contributing to the real future of the team.”

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree

One would have to assume that with no “star” on the roster needing appeasing, they will take their time focusing on “development”. Even if they luck out and land a high pick with franchise changing talent, his job will be made easier if the franchise has the proper culture in place.

Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.

by HQ Interloper on Dec 1, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Here Is More On the Raptors Pursuit of Chandler

From Canada.com. Complete article on link.

Raptors chasing Tyson Chandler?

December 1, 2011. 2:01 pm

He is a great fit on the Raptors’ roster when looking at strengths and weaknesses. The Chandler, Diaw, Evans and Calderon deal also made a ton of sense last summer as it would have given the Raptors a lot of financial flexibility.

However Chandler is looking for a huge pay day with long-term security and will receive a contract that will be based on his play from last season. There is a good possibility that he might not replicate last year’s production.

There is also the risk of him being sidelined due to injury for an extended period of time or injuries limiting his play on the court. And he just turned 29 in October.

Colangelo has repeatedly mentioned the need to add the "right" pieces. He had tried to make a splash by acquiring the injury prone Jermaine O’Neal. His new right hand man Ed Stefanski fell for the same mistake with Elton Brand. Brand was also 29 when he signed with the Sixers.

Perhaps a younger alternative, like DeAndre Jordan, might make more sense as he brings similar skills to the table without the injury risks or the potentially massive contract.

I would love DJ but I doubt that Clippers will let him get away.

Regarding Valanciunas.

He is still only 19 and IMO maybe 3 or 4 years away from being a positive force in the NBA. Even then you never know how someone will turn out.

I would rather the Raptors go for a solid defensive Big Man to play Center right now and worry about a possible over abundance of very good big men when it happens. When you only win 22 games you need to look at improving ASAP and Jonas will not be able to help the Raptors do that for sure in 2011-12 and for who knows how long if ever.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:20 PM EST reply actions  

When you only win 22 games you need to look at improving ASAP

Nope. You look at improving as much as possible, on the schedule that makes the most sense. ASAP should not be the driver here. That’s treadmill talk.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't Agree At All

Losing like being controlled by big governments becomes too easily an accepted thing by players and people.

The Raptors core is very young and they need to start getting some noticeable benefit from all the hard work they are putting in.

More losing like they did last season will not cut it.

Winning is the best re-enforcer for hard work and more hard work which is what it takes to become successful and win in sports. not continual losing.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Jonas Update 2011-12

In the minor league EuroCup

Games 5
MPG 25.4
PPG 16.8
RPG 5.6
FG% 75%
FT% 91%

In the major league EuroLeague

Games 3
MPG 18.0
PPG 8.0
RPG 6.3
FG% 50%
FT% 83%

His numbers so far are appreciably better in the minor league EuroCup.

LTU by the way is 8 – 0.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:39 PM EST reply actions  

Numbers still look pretty good in the higher league. That and the small sample size gives me optimism – pretty sure he had one really rough game at the top level which is dragging his stats down.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

And he’s essentially a rookie in those leagues too, isn’t he?

Also, he’s not playing major minutes yet and getting decent production. If he’s able to scale them up if he plays 36 minutes, that’s some serious output.

by siggian on Dec 1, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually He Played In The EuroCup League Last Season.

I don’t fully understand the European basketball leagues and scheduling.

LTU missed out on making the EuroLeague this season when they lost in the qualifying round in as I recall September. So I am not sure why they are shown as playing 3 out of their 8 games in the EuroLeague. I don’t recall if it was the same last season.

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Buddah, I’m not sure how much you’ve watched of Jonas, but I thought I’d ask…

Aside from the conventional numbers, how’s he looked? How are the defensive rotations? Is he setting good screens and rolling hard to the basket? Has his post game improved? Fouling alot?

I warmed on the Jonas pick because I saw some clips of his game (albeit through Youtube so selective at best), and he looked like a more traditional big. He did look quite raw however. I’m just wondering how much progress he’s made this season.

by Mistafitz on Dec 1, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I Haven't Watched HIm Play Much Since The EuroBasket 2011 Games

He looked mentally and physically wasted by the end of the games and for the most party totally over matched by bigger players who would never make a NBA team or are NBA scrubs.

I will try and start watching him again come March or so or maybe a bit before. The games in the EuroCup league are like scrimmages. Not much talent in the EuroCup league. I would say on about the same level as maybe middle level NCAA men’s Division 1 competition.

By not watching him play for about six months any improvement will be more noticeable.

IMO he is not anywhere near ready to positively contribute in the NBA. Just not strong enough and heavy enough. He gets pushed around pretty easily by 250 pound plus players even those without much talent. He looked terrible playing against Mozgov in the EuroBasket 2011 tournament last summer.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

It's good to be back!

I couldn’t post during the lockout…I just didn’t have it in me. But now that the lockout’s over I’m getting excited again.

I’d be for grabbing a big like Chandler if it is in the 8 million a year range. He would tighten up our interior defense, and would be a good guy to have around to teach Jonas how to play the position in the NBA.

If healthy, Amir should start over Ed. Make Ed earn the spot by consistently outplaying Amir. This organization has a long and storied history of given starting spots without the player actually having to earn it. That needs to change.

As for tanking, It’s easier said than done. You’d never get a coach or a player to agree to tank. Not only that, but I’d suggest that the mindset of tanking would poison your entire locker room. You’d effectively need to replace everybody if that was your goal.

Now, a GM can help you tank by trading off valuable pieces and not getting anything in return, which I am in favour of to some extent…

Colangelo has to figure out what he has and then decide who’s worth keeping around and who isn’t. The goal (should be) to compete for a championship. Even if we get a stud in the draft, how soon could that happen? 5 years at least? So the idea should be to build towards that point.

I’d like to see BC pick up another lottery pick this season. If he doesn’t use the cap space on a guy like Chandler, I’d prefer he save it and try to use it as a bargaining chip to take someone’s bad contract at the price of a pick. Assuming the new CBA doesn’t screw us by changing the draft age this year, this will be a loaded draft and likely the best one for a few years. You should be able to get a good player in the low teens.

Finally, I wouldn’t use the amnesty clause now. I’d wait to see how Kleiza recovers from his injury, see if there’s a trade market for him and then go from there. It would be him or Calderon if you can’t find a trade for either.

by Mistafitz on Dec 1, 2011 3:08 PM EST reply actions  

are you sure

you weren’t locked out too?

by renato on Dec 1, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Off-Raptors topic...

If Chris Paul wants to go to NY but they need money to sign him… can they amnesty Chauncey Billups to free up cash?

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 3:13 PM EST reply actions  

And from a unicornian standpoint...

Could the Raps not offer Billups a vet min. salary for a year, as he would still get paid his contract from NY?

Remember, this is theoretical and just for educational purposes…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

or porpoises...

hehe … educational porpoises with LASERS!!

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

Here is my understanding:

Can NY amnesty Billups: Yes, as he was under contract with the team priort to the lockout

Can the Raps sign him for the minimum?: Theorhetically yes, but I believe there is an “auction” or bidding process where the highest bidder wins and all salaries paid by the highest bidder are deducted from the salaries owed by the original team. For example if Billups makes $10 mil and raps sign for $5 mil for same duration as his remainding contract, the Knicks will only have to pay the remaining $5 mil.

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what I figured...

I just wondered about restrictions regarding newly acquired contracts, if that had any bearing…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

What if Toronto offered $5 mil, but the Lakers offered $3?

Could he take the lesser offer to chase a title?

Or is it truly highest bidder wins?

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope

Whoever offers the biggest bid wins the player’s contract, pro-rated to their bid amount.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 1, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, seems awfully slave-labourish to me...

But I guess it’s really no different than being thrown in with a trade to another team to match salaries…

Don’t know why it seems so harsh in this scenario…

That being said though, it gives “crappy destination” teams a chance to acquire some real talent…

If Brandon Roy gets amnestied, and nobody makes an offer, you could sign him for the minimum and he would have no choice…

"the Truth"

by Mikthaniel on Dec 1, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Here Are My Predictions For The Raptors 2011-12 Version

1. Devlin will up the hype game for DeRozan and Davis
2. Bargnani still won’t be able to rebound.
3. BC will try and trade Bargnani before the trade deadline
4. Calderon will get injured again and miss a bunch of games.
5. Bayless will make Raptors fans say. Brandon who?
6. The Dance Pack will have at least one new routine
7. DeRozan will score 19+ ppg and his defense will still suck
8. James Johnson will make all Raptors fans everywhere dream about Harrison Barnes
9. Reggie will return
10. Barbosa’s wife will tell him he extends with the Raptors he will have to sleep on the couch.
11. Reggie will grab some other NBA players family jewels and/or hand.
12. Amir Johnson will commit the Raptors first foul.
13. Stefanski will bore Raptors fans with his interviews
14. Bargani’s team defense will still be horrible
15. Casey will try and use multiple forms of defense to hide Bargnani inadequacies
16. The Raptors will make at least one inconsequential trade.
17. The Maple Leafs will win more games than the Raptors
18. The Raptors will get at least one lottery pick next June
19. Come next March Raptors fans will be rooting for the Raptors to lose so that the Raptors increase their chances of drafting the Harrison Barnes.
19. Ed Davis will not eat at iHOP
20. Doug Smith will continue to be Doug Smith

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 4:34 PM EST reply actions  

Corr

20. Ed Davis will not eat at iHOP
21. Doug Smith will continue to be Doug Smith

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

17. The Maple Leafs will win more games than the Raptors

that ain’t no prediction.

.

by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 1, 2011 4:58 PM EST reply actions  

The Leafs have already won nearly as many as the Raps won all last season. Though, to be fair, they’re playing over their heads right now and won’t keep up this win percentage.

/not that it matters

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. Experiencing cheering whiplash for decades..

by Wan Ihite on Dec 2, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

hey Wan

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Dec 2, 2011 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

A Safe Prediction On My Part For Sure

I am entitled to get at least one out of 21 predictions correct, eh

That is why I included it. LOL

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Chew On This News Fellow Raptors Fans
According to

Marc Stein

from ESPN.com:

Sources say Toronto is trying to be as aggressive as it can be in the big-man market in free agency and has informed the players involved that it intends to lodge serious bids for Nene, Chandler and restricted free agent Marc Gasol. In the unlikely event that releasing a player through amnesty could clinch the signing of one of those players, rest assured that the Raptors will go for it.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 5:09 PM EST reply actions  

Bye Bye Bargnani?

I am praying.

Make it so BC. Sign one of those dudes.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah

Bet you BC is trying to land an overpriced big man to play WITH Bargnani. Because he’s an idiot.

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

after last season ended and BC had his post season presser

where he called Bargnani an enigma…. people began to think it was the beginning of the end for Bargnani.

I said I’d believe when I saw it

and here we are… Dwayne Casey and BC chasing a ‘legit’ C. Dallas style.

Amir = Buddah Crack
Bargs = BC Crack

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 1, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

BC still hasn’t had a chance to get rid of Bargs due to the lockout and AB’s BYC… so we won’t know till free agency starts

However, if there was a window that BC had that he did not use, someone please inform. dhackett?

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Dec 2, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Nope – any trade involving Bargnani would have included his BYC status. June 30th was the last day of his BYC status, and the league has been locked out ever since.

Of course, a trade could be consummated with BYC in place, it is just difficult to get the numbers to line up.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 9:01 AM EST up reply actions  

New CBA?

What are the trade rule changes in the new CBA? Did they make the salary matching requirement more liberal?

by DW19 on Dec 2, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Trade rules for teams under the tax are a bit looser – 150% or 100%+$5M, whichever is less.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks!

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Dec 2, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a classic example

of where dislike constricts realistic debate.
.

If Raptors were able to acquire a defensive Centre, like Chandler (or whoever), do you honestly believe it’ll be Andrea who gets the amnesty treatment. Our Front Court production would suffer. It was 19th in ppg (even though Andrea was 9th amongst ALL Front Court production – 4th with PF, 4th with SF, and 3rd amongst Centres).
.

If BC should pull off a free agent deal like this, it will be someone like Barbosa who makes this happen. LB is a trading chip for the trade deadline – but under these circumstances his value would be just as good.

.

by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 1, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a classic example

of where fiction replaces fact.

Show me the statistics for “Andrea was 9th amongst ALL Front Court production – 4th with PF, 4th with SF, and 3rd amongst Centres.” And I hope to God you are not talking strictly ppg because we’ve down this road a billion times and you know very well that Bargnani’s ppg is a direct result of his over usage and despite his innefficiency. Also, no I don’t believe Bargnani gets the amnesty treatment because I don’t beleive Colangelo is capable of being objective or rational when it comes to Bargnani.

by MAS11 on Dec 1, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

uhhh

read my comment better – it says PPG.
.

Yes, I used that stat to back up my point that a guy like Chandler – with 9.6 ppg – would not make up for the offensive shortage. And I will always maintain, that Davis & Amir do not have the capability to overcome that. Ed might some day, but he’s a few years away – too far in the future for a guy like Chandler to be okay with. They may have good fg% now, but that would change with more focus by opponent defenses. Bargnani may have his issues on defense (help – but not man to man – IMO), but he is a far superior threat to score.
.

As for Chandler, if he should become a Raptor, it will be because Andrea is still here. Whether you agree or not, his self-worth will be telling himself that he can make AB a better player. Not a Dirk quality, but good enough that with other pieces, and Casey on board, it could propel Raptors into the play-offs and beyond.

Why else would he be interested?
.

by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 1, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Chandler is interested because the Raptors are the only team with Casey as a head coach and they can pay massive dollars due to their cap situation. Believe me, having Barney on board is not a selling feature.

As for your other point, if you gave the ball to Amir Johnson on every offensive play I bet he could score 19 per game too. That doesn’t make him a good offensive player. Heck if we gave you the ball every play you could probably score 19. The point is that a good offensive player scores consistently and efficiently and this is especially true with Centers and Power Forwards who traditionally need to have the ball fed to them by guards in order to get their points. An inefficient scoring center who happens to be the teams focus point offensively is a recipe for losses. Funny how that seems to work out with the reality of last season.

by McGateway on Dec 2, 2011 7:30 AM EST up reply actions  

The top 13 usage rates in the NBA

Player – Usage Rate – PPG – PPG/Usg

Kobe Bryant – 35.1 – 25.3 – 0.72
Derrick Rose – 32.2 – 25.0 – 0.78
Carmelo Anthony – 32 – 25.6 – 0.80
Russell Westbrook – 31.6 – 21.9 – 0.69
Dwyane Wade – 31.6 – 25.5 – 0.81
LeBron James – 31.5 – 26.7 – 0.85
Amare Stoudemire – 30.9 – 25.3 – 0.82
Kevin Durant – 30.6 – 27.7 – 0.91
Kevin Martin – 29.6 – 23.4 – 0.79
Michael Beasley – 28.3 – 19.2 – 0.68
Dirk Nowitzki – 28.2 – 23.0 – 0.82
Monta Ellis – 28.1 – 24.1 – 0.86
Andrea Bargnani – 28.1 – 21.4 – 0.76

Bargnani definitely needs to improve his efficiency to maximize his value to the team. But his offensive efficiency in terms of points per usage rate is comparable to several of the top scorers in the league. Not the superstars, but close. Bargnani’s rate is very close to Kevin Martin and Derrick Rose, above Kobe, Westbrook and Beasley, and just below Wade, Nowitzki, Anthony and Stoudemire. Still nowhere near James, Ellis or especially Durant, but who is?

I think his efficiency gets blasted more because of his position, but he is very comparable (offensively) to Dirk and Amare, and is a good step above Beasley, all of whom are PF’s. The main gripe with Bargnani should stay with his defense and rebounding – his offense is just not that bad. It’s actually pretty good.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

“his offense is just not that bad. It’s actually pretty good”

its just that its not good enough…

his pts per usage is still 7-8% less than the other bigs you mentioned (Beasley was not a PF for Minn last year, and only played PF on occasion for Miami before that)… thats not necessarily a ‘small’ rate… but thats definetely a matter of perspective.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 2, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Especially considering how much he gives up in the areas of rebounding and defence… He is a minus over all on the ledger

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Not refuting his defense – this is a discussion of offense.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Just making the point that discussing his offense is somewhat irrelevant as he gives up more than he produces and is therefore an overall minus and a detrement to the team when he’s on the court.

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure. But when you make statements like:

And I hope to God you are not talking strictly ppg because we’ve down this road a billion times and you know very well that Bargnani’s ppg is a direct result of his over usage and despite his innefficiency.

… You’re talking about his offense. Which by your own reasoning, you shouldn’t be doing ;)

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

No I was responding to Rapthoseleafs, who was talking about his offense. And I suppose you are right and my comments should be accompanied by a nuance. That nuance being that his offense is in no way efficient enough to justify his deficiencies in all other areas of the game of basketball.

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

7% does not make up the difference between a player who is ridiculously inefficient and only scores points due to his high usage rate, and two of the biggest offensive threats at the PF spot in the history of the game.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

what would also be important to consider

is:

-whats the average pt/usg for a PF/C (we can even, and should, eliminate small usage/minutes etc players)?
-how far is Bargnani from average and the best?

so, let me make a conservative assumtion that the average is 0.60. (Reggie has a pt/usg rate of 0.44 and if Dirk is 0.82 that seems like a good place to start) If thats true… is being 0.06 below the ‘best’ (which we’ll call Dirk for now), while 0.16 above ‘average’ (which we’ll assume is 0.60 for now) actually still that ‘close’ to the best?

I’m not trying to give the impression taht the difference between ‘the best’ and Bargnani is huge… but its not exactly marginal either. Having a difference of small #s when dealing with small #s inside a small range of #s is tough to define as ‘close’.

Then when you take into consideration on the ball efficiency (TS%, eFG%, FG%), and (if one likes) such things as ‘clutch scoring’… pts/usg doesn’t really consider (well it does but in a much more indirect way)

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I Think Your Formula Is Double Counting
Usg%
Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

Offensive Rating is much better indicator than what you created. It is basically the equivalent of the college PPP stat

ORtg
Offensive Rating (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); for players it is points produced per 100 posessions, while for teams it is points scored per 100 possessions. This rating was developed by Dean Oliver, author of Basketball on Paper. I will point you to Dean’s book for complete details.

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I used the statistic I used because the statement I was refuting was that Bargnani only scores so many points because of his usage rate. As such I compared the two, without any statistical manipulation.

In what way am I double counting?

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Usage Already Has Minutes In It

Dividing PPG/Usage is double counting because Usage already already has minutes played in it. So what is your result supposed to mean?

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

My result is not supposed to mean anything on its own, except to represent a correlation between usage rate and points per game. MAS made a statement about how Bargnani’s points per game were caused by his usage percentage and that he was inefficient. I simply showed the relation between the two to draw comparisons to other players.

It is by no means supposed to mean anything on its own – it is simply a method of comparing players using only the criteria MAS suggested as a measure of Bargs’ offensive ineptitude.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Question:

You have included PPG and Usage, but have not included assists. When you factor in the other player’s assists which is a produc to usage, Bargnani looks terrible.

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

An assist does not count towards usage rate.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Isn’t usage rate a factor of posession or is it soley fg attempts?

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

FGA, a portion of FTA, and TO.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

OK thanks. However, if you factor in assists and therefore a holistic view of offensive contribution, Bargnani looks a lot worse.

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure – but you said he only scores so many points because of his usage rate. Do you still hold to that?

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes. As in your own list, he is at/near the bottom on the efficiency side and I don’t think you can arbitrarialy ignore the position he plays.

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I only looked at the top 13 players in usage rate – these are the players that are the most likely to use a possession in the entire league. And he is within a stone’s throw of all of them, and ahead of a few. My point is he is comparable to these top players – where you seem to think he is not nearly comparable.

If he had a usage rate equal to Kobe Bryant’s, it would scale up to 26.7 PPG. For Durant’s (the best on the list in efficiency), Bargnani would score 23.5 PPG. Is the difference all that great, in your opinion, to merit the criticism his offensive game receives?

Feel free to criticize his defensive game, rebounding, lack of assists… He deserves those criticisms. Hey, even say that with his skill set he could be more efficient on the offensive end. That’s true too. But he is not ‘inefficient.’ As I showed, he is with 7% of the efficiency of the most dangerous big men in the game. Is that your criterion for an inefficient game?

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

He is not ahead of a few he is ahead of one (and I’ve maintained for years that Kobe is well on the decline and very overrated – as evidenced by his efficiency above). Yes the differnce between 23.5 ppg and Durants 28.6 is massive! That’s approximately a 20% difference in ppg output for the same usage rate! That is significant. especially when you consider that he does NOTHING else and that is supposed to be his specialty.

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

uhm

Gasol was listed, on Spanish tv even, immediately after AB on the hall of shame list of non rebounding bigs. I do not think people like Gasol for his O and if I really wan to take a defensive big on free agency I would image Chandler wins hands down over Gasol

by renato on Dec 2, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. Its funny how Gasol’s reputation exploded when he went to the land of Hyperbola aka LA. He was a decent offensive player who didn’t rebound as well as his size would indicate and he couldn’t even propel the Griz to win a single 1st round game let alone series and yet he is considered better than Chris Bosh who averaged a double double in his final few years in Toronto and at least won 3 playoff games during the teams “glory” years. Now Gasol is considered excellent playing next to Kobe, Bynam, Odom and Meta World Peace. I guess having rings does make you a better player. We should induct Luke Walton into the hall of fame immediately.

by McGateway on Dec 2, 2011 7:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I was actually

referring to Mark, he averages 7 rebounds which puts him, I believe 1 rebounds more that AB. SOmetimes the difference between being a perceived start and a perceived scrub is really thin

by renato on Dec 2, 2011 8:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Last season, Marc averaged 7 rebounds per 36 minutes. Bargnani averaged 5.2.

Two seasons ago, Gasol averaged 9.3 per 36. Bargnani averaged 6.3.

He’s no Reggie Evans, but he’s no Bargnani either. He has a comparable rebound rate to Amare, Dirk, Paul Millsap, Lamarcus Aldridge and Chris Bosh.

Not all that shabby.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Oops – those are their per game numbers. Gasol’s minutes dropped this year, so… Point stands.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually, Gasol averaged 11.2 RPG to go along with 15 PPG in last year’s play off run. He was a key kog to their success last year. He also averaged 51% from the field. So he was a GREAT rebounder, efficient scorer and played a big role in his team’s playoff success. All things Bargnani has never done and will never do. Oh and his 7 rbs per game were in 31 mins compared to Bargnani’s 5.2 in 35+ minutes. Giving Gasol a significantly better rebound per minute rate.

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey

I did not put him in the hall of shame, his own compatriot did, ask them

by renato on Dec 2, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Just making sure we’re clear on the Gasol vs. bargnani rebounding comparison as you brought him into the picture.

by MAS11 on Dec 2, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Gasol Is A Below Average Rebounder For A Center

but he is not nearly as bad as Bargnani

Don’t forget that Z-Bo’s big butt (LOL) not only cleared out defenders from under the basket but also Gasol. Z-Bo averaged over 12 rebounds per 36 minutes, which is just one rebound per 36 minutes under Reggie’s career average.

Chandler would be the best choice if he can stay healthy, though he has no offense. However, Bargnani has no defense so net net on total point differential I think it would be a gain for the Raptors to replace AB with TC.

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Gasol’s rebound rate is 13.1. Bargnani’s is 8.8. So Gasol should grab about 1.5 times more rebounds than Bargnani in similar minutes.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Nope

Gasol’s rebound rate per 36 minutes last season was 7.9 per or 10.5 per 48 minutes

On defense Gasol’s rebound rate per 36 was 5.8 vs Bargnani was 4.1.

Which is better indeed but still not VG.

Gasol’s rebound rate per 36 minutes was 27th and Bargnani 35th in the NBA last season among all NBA starters who were 6’10" or more and started at least 50 games.

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Rebound rate is a measure of what percentage of available rebounds a player grabs. See basketball-reference.com for details.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

You Used The Wrong Phrase

There is no such “rebound rate” phrase in basketball.reference.com stats or in their glossary. From your response I think that you mean to say Rebound Percentage.

TRB%
Total Rebound Percentage (available since the 1970-71 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 *
(TRB * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm TRB + Opp TRB)). Total rebound percentage is an estimate of the percentage of available rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor.

Since you used the wrong phrase I took your post to be mean rebounds per 36 minutes which is in fact the rate of rebounds that a player gets in 36 minutes.

I will look the “Rebounding Percentage” stats and post back

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I apologize for using the wrong term, but since a player’s rebounds per 36 minutes is not defined as “Rebound Rate” either, your assumption that I simply posted the wrong numbers and was not simply referring to something other than your first assumption is much appreciated.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

rebound rate and rebound % are the same thing.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 2, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Good Point

except again the term is “Rebound Percentage” in your example “Total Rebound Percentage” and not Rebound Rate.

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

There Is One Other Possibility Here Regarding Bargnani

If the Raptors sign one of those three.

Casey could play Bargnani at the SF position.

1. Would eliminate the glut at Center and PF
2. Would make Bargnani’s horrible rebounding irrelevant.
3. Bargnani prefers to play facing the basket. I don’t see too many SF’s being be able to defend him on the wing because of Bargnani’s size.
4. The Raptors need a starting SF

The question becomes: What about Bargnani trying to defend someone on the wing?

1. With a Chandler, Gasol or even Nene in the post along with Amir they would in my opinion to be able to give enough rotational help when Bargnani gets beat off the dribble.
2. Casey can construct defensive schemes designed for Bargnani to force the player he is guarding into the paint in which case Amir and whichever Big the Raptors sign would be there waiting.
3. Not too many SF will be able to shoot all that great over Bargnani due to his height and reach provided he learns how to and make the effort to close out on shooters.

I think it is an interesting idea.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

What Season?

NBA and NBPA negotiations to resume next Wednesday on Level B items. If no agreement is reached on these items camps will not begin the following Monday.

Stay tuned for more on this.

by Buddahfan on Dec 1, 2011 9:35 PM EST reply actions  

finally the offseason begins!

good to be back. alright so expect Tyson Chandler to be in a raps uni come this season with a hefty contract :). now id much prefer marc gasol of course, age counts big time, but chandler wouldnt be such a bad idea, aslong as BC doesnt throw him an absolute ridiculous amount of cash, just enough to get him on board. Why? a great veteran presence to this team is desperately needed, he just came off a winning title, he knows and plays perfectly to Casey’s gameplan, and best of all, i expect him to show the ways of a true nba center to young Valanciunas when he gets here. as long as his contract isnt as horrendous, tyson can always be traded if and when valanciunas is proven a bit and ready to take the reigns. as well i can see Chandler bringing and showing the defensive presence to this young squad which hasn’t been able to play any D and MUST learn ASAP for this rebuild to happen a little quicker. I also dont think adding Tyson Chandler would automatically put us above other teams viewed to be in the lottery cause well, we have the least amount of talent, well second to cleveland, compared to the rest of the league. So in that case, we bring in Tyson to show the team how to play Casey’s defensive style, the rest of the team learn, we still get a high lottery pick, and now we move forward with a more defensive mentality and with a harrison barnes and valanciunas coming next season. its all good :)

by tea time on Dec 2, 2011 12:30 AM EST reply actions  

Look I like the idea of Chandler but the guy is a huge and i mean HUGE injury risk who has so far managed to avoid career ending injury. Paying him to come play on a bad team is just a terrible idea and unless the Raptors are also going to ship DD and Barney out and bring in respectable players to fill those spots, it makes absolutely no sense to even discuss this.

by McGateway on Dec 2, 2011 7:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I Agree He Is A Heath Risk

He has averaged only 61 games per season over the last five.

That is the only reason I prefer Gasol.

Gasol also has a better game on offense and would pick up some of the PPG lost by Bargnani.

Gasol had a TS% of .580 last season compared to Bargnani’s .533

Gasol’s Defensive Rating was 103 vs 102 for Chandler vs 115 for Bargnani.

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

You can’t compare DRTG’s in isolation. Shane Battier’s DRTG last year was 108. Carlos Boozer’s was 99. Who’s the better defender?

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

True Enough

But then look at the rest of the Memphis roster and tell me who is a great defender? Z-Bo?

IMO Gasol is a far better team defender than Bargnani

Also, for his career Gasol has a +10 Net Rating (OR – DR) vs Bargnani’s -7. It’s not like Memphis had great teams before last season.

Gasol has been in the NBA for three seasons. Here are the combined won – loss records for Memphis and Toronto over the last three seasons. Memphis was not that much better yet Gasol had a significantly better Net Rating than Bargnani over that time period.

Memphis 110-136
Toronto 95-151

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t disagree with your premise. I disagree with your use of the DRTG statistic.

I agree with this:

IMO Gasol is a far better team defender than Bargnani

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Eric Smith To Talk With Jose at 2:00 PM Today on Fan 590
Eric__Smith Eric Smith
Looking forward to chatting with @josemcalderon8 at 2pm today on The Eric Smith Show #Sportsnet590 #Raptors @eric__smith @Paul__Jones

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 10:18 AM EST reply actions  

Nene To The Nets?
According to nypost.com:

League sources acknowledge the Nets are among the more aggressive teams pursuing Denver’s Nene and while acknowledging the suitor field is densely populated, one rated their chances as "pretty strong" with the 6-foot-11 hulk. Denver, Indiana and Houston are among the strongest competition.

Nene is the Nets’ top free agent choice.

Nets have ‘strong’ chance to land Nene

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 10:47 AM EST reply actions  

Odd. Are they giving up their hopes for Dwight? Is this a sign of D12 to LA? Who knows in this crazy post-lockout world?

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

If Colangelo chooses to plug up the remaining roster spots with short term contracts and save his flexibility for next season, where there will be even more cap space and an even better free agent crop, he will be effectively sacrificing success this season for a better draft pick and possible long term success in the future. On the other hand, if he chooses to go after a big name or two, and uses up that flexibility in the process, he could be sacrificing the future of the team for a few extra wins this season.

This paragraph is an excellent summary of the choices that the Raptors front office needs to make this off-season.

by DW19 on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions  

http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/20111129/21131/one-one-dwane-casey-part-one

Interesting interview with Casey. Touches on his preparation, strategy, and opinions on free agency and how BC is approaching the season. Part 2 link at the bottom of part 1.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 2, 2011 11:50 AM EST reply actions  

Sorry If I Miss Some Replys Asking For A Response

I was in the middle of responding and had a problem with a Windows installation so I had to close everything down, clean the computer and reboot, So of course when I reloaded Firefox and came back into the website all the posts on this read were identified as read.

I am upgrading my entire network to W8-DP (i.e. alpha) and had a problem, which is now resolved, in installing Windows Live Essentials on one of the computers. Anyway now GTC. Windows 7 is such old news. LOL

I will take a look through the list of replies.

by Buddahfan on Dec 2, 2011 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

APBR metric

Just was looking through the APBR metric that ranks Amir Johnson as the 48th best player.

I would like to know how I can take a ranking system seriously that ranks Demar Derozan 358 and Brian Cardinal 157. Andrea Bargnani is ranked 268 while Shavlik Randolph is 253.

This system also ranks Amir Johnson ahead of Stephen Curry (60), Rudy Gay (70), Brook Lopez (75), Eric Gordan (82). Jose Calderon comes in at 173 behind the likes of Brian Cardinal, Hassan Whiteside, Michael Ruffin and Gani Lawal (WHO?!).

So I am all ears but how is this system accurate and suppose to be taken seriously and be the be all and end all argument for Amir Johnson being the Raptors superior post player, I am really sick of hearing opinions so some facts and numbers would be nice and not a system that has obvious flaws as shown by some of these absurd rankings.

by Shalax23 on Dec 3, 2011 11:14 AM EST reply actions  

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