Who Will be the 2011 "Lockout Shawn Kemp" for the Toronto Raptors?
by Adam Francis on Oct 25, 2011 11:30 AM EDT
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PrintShawn Kemp reportedly put on 34 pounds during the last NBA lock-out. The HQ looks at three Raptors who could follow suit...
And there go another two weeks.
Well at least that's the way it sounds.
Reports last night indicated that another 102 games will be cancelled today by the NBA, putting us likely into mid December now, in terms of the earliest a season could start.
Of course this has all sorts of negative connotations associated with it, many of which we've discussed from a Raptors' perspective already. Concerns over impact on next spring's draft, lack of player-coach cohesion, setting back Toronto's rebuilding efforts, etc, etc.
But what about the impact on individual players?
Sure, there's been a whole marketing effort around #basketballneverstops, but for many players, I'd hazard a guess that basketball has stopped, and unfortunately this extended off-season has simply been an excuse to have some more of Mom's home cooking.
The National Post's Bruce Arthur asked who this lock-out's Shawn Kemp would be when the NBA cancelled its first bunch of games, and The Basketball Jones did one better by putting together a list of potential candidates and their odds to fill the Reign Man's shoes.
Luckily there was nary a Raptor to be found on said list, but that doesn't mean we can't see some of the Dinos coming back looking a bit more like Brachiosauruses than a Velociraptors.
Here's our top three options:
3. Linas Kleiza. Kieiza's an easy pick. If you're rehabbing a serious injury like Linas has been over the past while, many of you know from experience how easy it is to pack on the pounds. You just can't do very much, and maybe you even feel sorry for yourself and turn to the old KFC or Mickey D's to drown or in the case of your arteries, clog your sorrows.
No word on whether Kleiza has done this, but I expect between a lack of activity thanks to microfracture knee surgery, and the absence of formal Raptors' rehab sessions, "TV L" is going to need a major conditioning stint when NBA basketball returns.
2. Andrea Bargnani. Poor Andrea. Even in a post that has nothing to do with advanced stats, Bargs gets the short end of the stick.
However the fact remains that he's not exactly the "White Dwight Howard," tends to suffer from strange injuries as is, and of course, there have been rumours in the past about him not reporting to camp in the best of shape.
Oh, and there's this photo, taken pretty soon after the season was done:
1. James Johnson: Normally you wouldn't say that a basketball player who's focusing like this in the gym (1:34 mark), is an NBA team's top candidate to put on the pounds.
Add in the fact that he's a black belt with MMA experience and your first instinct would be to scoff at his inclusion on this list.
But Johnson just seems to have that body type that if left to his own devices, could become a shorter version of Eddy Curry.
Johnson after all had a 12% body fat mark upon entering the league, and while he was no Oliver Miller (22%), that body fat percentage ranked him alongside combine results for guys like DeJuan Blair and um...Shaq.
Need we say more?
Least likely to put on pounds: There are probably a few options here from Solomon Alabi to Leandro Barbosa.
But DeMar DeRozan takes the cake. He's consistently been firing out tweets like:
DeMar_DeRozan DeMar DeRozan If I don't do nothing i'ma Ball...
And:
DeMar_DeRozan DeMar DeRozan 1st workout in the bag. Gym work now.
#BasketballNeverStop
And yes, as part of the #Basketballneverstops movement, he's been playing in leagues and open runs all over the place, keeping an intense gym schedule to boot, something he recently discussed with the National Post's Eric Koreen:
National Post: What is your average day like right now?
DeMar DeRozan: I get up. I work out in the morning. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I work out twice a day. Tuesdays, Thursdays and on the weekend, I play with the pros. We have open runs. That's my week. I do that every week . We go to [Loyola Marymount University] that's out here. There are 10 or 15 pros. We just play games all day.
This of course doesn't mean that when/if the NBA season gets going again, DeMar's going to morph into Kobe Bryant. (Regardless of what Bryan Colangelo may think.)
But it's welcome news for Raptors' fans sorely looking for something positive leading up to another potential long season filled with many losses.
Now if DeMar could just give James Johnson a call...
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Im saying Bargnani all the way. The fact that he is putting off signing with an Italian team just tells me that he’d rather sit around as opposed to getting better. You also don’t see Demar esque quotes from Bargnani’s twitter mentioning how much he’s in the gym. He’s probably too busy getting sponsorships from a variety of scandalous companies. Add that to the fact that he’s never really been in amazing shape and you’ve got a recipe for getting fat.
"…there have been rumours in the past about him not reporting to camp in the best of shape."
Not just rumors, in one of Triano’s post practice pressers during preseason last year, Triano outright said that Bargnani came to camp out of shape. He’s definitely the odds on favorite to show up out of shape after a lockout. Not sure if hard work is in his vocabulary…
AHA.
Thanks MAS. I THOUGHT that was the case but couldn’t find a quote to support my recollections.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 25, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks?
where is the quote?
Andrea for what I recall always trained in the summer at the Benetton facility under the supervision of Raptors trainers so this whole thing has a good chance to be BS filler. Moreover I remember Mitchell and COlangelo on inteview telling that Andrea had done all the Raptors asked him to do (in the summer) and “then some”. May be some of you should stop to take the “anti Bargnani” blue pill.
I watched Triano say this with my own eyes on Raptors TV
He was ticked when he said it to… Believe it or not, face reality or ride unicorns, your choice.
well, for obvious reasons
still better riding an unicorn that having one after you…..
True ha ha.
I still can’t find the quote but the more I think about it, the more I remember Jay saying it too. He wasn’t COMPLETELY blatant, but I believe he was sort of “matter-of-fact” in the way he approached the subject.
As in, “could Andrea have reported to camp in better shape? Yes.”
That sort of thing.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 26, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta disagree here. I distinctly remember him saying it to make the point that he was ticked off. I took away from it that he made a point to mention this to the media, maybe as another failed attempt to motivate Andrea?
oh, ma sei 'de coccio!!
When he had training camp with Triano, he had trained the whole summer and plaid with the Italian National team till mid September so there is no way, unless you lock yourself up at Mc Donald to be totally out of shape in two weeks. I am not sure what Triano said and what he meant but you reallyu need to stop taking those blue pills.
BTW I have a unicorn here, do you mind a ride?
Listen to me you little Weasle
I’m sorry that you are such a pathetic little nat that hearing the truth about your homo erotic crush Bargnani forces you to stoop to a low that you have to come on this site and call me names in Italian… Grow up or f off. Things were good here for a while when you realized you were a lone Bargnani defending voice in the wilderness and you slinked away to whatever little hole you came from and we didn’t have to listen to your nonsense. Miss those days….
So what? Both I and Franchise are making it up? OR is is more likely you’re unwilling to face reality. I don’t care what he did with that joke of a national team. His NBA coach said he was out of shape. You should be running away from that embarrasment to your country instead of slinging mud to defend his candy ass.
Dude, I would understand your desire to defend yourself if someone was calling you names… I defend myself and I’m the asshole?
“Listen to me you little Weasle”
That doesn’t sound like a defense, it sounds like an attack. If you want to sink to that level, it’s your business. But don’t claim you are only defending yourself.
Hey, he started it. I agree. Makes no difference though.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 27, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, Renato decided to take it to the mud slinging instead of debating the issue (because, like always, he loses on the issue). This is weasle like. Does Renato and this type of tactic bring out the worst in people, maybe but if someone was calling you names, I wouldn’t chastise you for defending yourself. If you choose to let yourself get punked off, your choice I suppose. Oh, and before you get all self righteous, I’ve seen you say some pretty nasty things to buddahfan (although provoked). So don’t be such a hypocrite.
Oh, and before you get all self righteous, I’ve seen you say some pretty nasty things to buddahfan (although provoked). So don’t be such a hypocrite.
Whoa – please quote me one such occasion. I do try to keep my discourse civil – if I’ve slipped up at some point I’d like to know about it. I never tell myself anything…
My point was just that I don’t suppose you want to be viewed in the same light as Renato, right? Well, that’s the effect statements like that have, and I just thought you might want to avoid that. If not, more power to you, man.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 28, 2011 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
uh?
MAS,sorry, but I really believe you either are on the wrong medication you you r should be on one. Prozac comes to mind. Cool off.
You want to criticize a player you do not like, fine. But it is not that, just because you do not like his game, he must be unprofessional, an asshole and his breath must be stinking. I do not have a man crush on Andrea, I believe you do as you are the one who does not seem to be able to talk about anything else.
I would advise you to take a vacation from this site and from basketball you seem to need it.I did not call you or Franchise lairs, but what he said represents a paradox, when you putting that on the side of the other facts I mentioned (the training with raptors trainers and the playing with the Italian national team) which you do not dispute either.
You see, paradoxes, are the things that make (adult) life interesting, debates possible. You problem is you are not adult enough to debate (as it requires perspective, which you never shown), you preach. Moreover, you childish approach dismisses anything which could be in the way of your truth and elevate to the status of undisputed (and indisputable) truth anything that plays along with your thesis. Poor you, you miss half the fun.
In relation to "Things were good here for a while " and everything that follows, like Triano used to say…. “What the F**k are you going to do” call you mum?
ps “oh, ma sei ’de coccio!!” for those who does not know it, means “hey you are really a bonehead”
... I thought it meant 'blockhead'... thanks for clarifying..
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
really renato
you called Mas a bonehead which is never gonna lead to good things after telling him, at the most basic level, he was lieing.
All this while Franchise remembers a similar statement by Triano
Don’t act so high an mighty when you are the one who picked the fight. Now grab an umbrella its supposed to rain licorice and bubble gum, on your way to the unicorn ride.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 27, 2011 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions
actually
my rant was an answer to being defined an “unicorn rider” so no, I did not start it. Moreover, I never saying he was lieing, I did not hear that particular Tirano’s scrum; I found (and I still find) bizarre, however, that one who trains under Raptor’s supervision reports to camp in bad shape.
So was he in bad shape as tired? Injured ? not bulked up as he wanted? short of breath? I do not know but I find it hard to believe he was overweight as I saw him playing two weeks before.
However, is that statement sufficient for portraying Andrea (but it would be the same for me if you change Andrea with Valanciunas) as a serial unprofessional who is the most likely candidate to report to camp fat? Not so sure but this is just an opinion, debatable as much as you want (And debating this is the point of this whole article) but no point in being declared heretic by such a reverend.
lets follow the discussion shall we
MAS – Bargnani showed up out of shape via Triano’s statements
Franchise – I remember that
Reanto – prove it or its BS, under Mitchell (not triano mind you as MAS was referring to) he showed up in shape, this is ‘anti-bargnani’
(hmm you don’t see this as picking a fight right off the bat?)
MAS – believe it or not, ride unicorns or not…. could have been a failed attempt to motivate Bargnani
Renato – your a *bonehead, its almost impossible for him to show up out of shape.
Please. You picked a fight and continued it. Man up and deal with. If you don’t want it, keep your trap shut. If you don’t mind then feel free to speak your mind…. but don’t act as if in someway MAS is a ‘child’ for just continuing what you started.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 27, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m going to give Bargnani the edge over the guy who trains in MMA. The motor just isn’t there.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 25, 2011 1:56 PM EDT reply actions
Mmmm…. pasta. Actually, the only situation I could see the amnesty clause actually used on Bargs is if he comes back way out of shape. So it’s certainly something to consider.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 25, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry Adam
You need to read more of my posts.
Amir was a track star in high school
He has a runners body and is a long distance runner by nature and life style.
If you if you looked at that picture I posted or you can go back to his Twitter account you will see that he is probably in the best condition of any Raptors player and will remain so.
I don’t know if you have ever run long distances like Amir does (5 miles regularly) and I used to but you get what is called a “Runner’s High” which is brought about by a release of endorphins due to the running. Once you have experienced that high over a long period of time you become addicted to it and your body and mind feel all screwed up if you don’t run.
In fact throughout his career Amir has complained that he has a problem putting on weight because of his addiction to long distance running.
I can’t run anymore due to the fact that my right leg was crushed in a snowmobile accident years ago but I can still walk and when I walk 4 – 6 miles I still get that high but of course in a lesser form. However, I get it enough that if I don’t walk enough every day I feel out of whack.
There is about as much chance of Amir getting out of shape as there is of the Raptors winning the NBA title in 2012 with their current roster.
As far as any other Raptors player currently on the roster my guess is there is no way that DeRozan gets out of shape and Kleiza is working out each day trying to get back into shape since he was operated on.
SMH
There is about as much chance of Amir getting out of shape as there is of the Raptors winning the NBA title in 2012 with their current roster.
“You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?”
“I’d say, more like one out of a million.”
“So you’re telling me there’s a chance!”
by dhackett1565 on Oct 25, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
What No Ed Davis?
RFLMAO because I expected he wouldn’t be included.
Draws a pass from his fan club.
SMH
Adam: Your Amir bashing in this article even raising the question about him leads me to think that you have been palling around with Arsenalist or other posters at Raptors Republic a bit too much.
Sometimes I really wish the Raptors would trade him to a good team.
a) Amir was never even mentioned in the article.
b) Frankly your Raptor bashing is getting a little tiring, and might be a little out of place on a Raptor fan blog.
c) Posting such ridiculous accusations and inflammatory remarks and then saying “Sorry but I won’t be reading this article and posts on it anymore” is terribly immature, and I’m frankly glad you won’t be reading this comment, as I would only expect another attack on this site or fandom in response.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 25, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like a painful nerve has been touched... what its connected to - I'm not exactly sure - but I think I have a good idea
1. I’m guessing it is to do with how much Buddha identifies with Amir.
2. How the snowmobiling accident’s outcome has affected Buddha, and the role that Amir plays in connecting Buddha to a sense of physical strength, wellness and ability. I also know how much an injury can create frustration – and I don’t doubt that Buddha had great affection for Amir before his accident.
3. That buddha himeslf ‘does deal in the negative’ ; specifically using ‘links’ and ‘sources’ as a battering ram against other people to ‘rip them a new one’ …. something that we humans do to each other (and have others do to ourselves) without much thought – every day of the week. Sometimes he goes too far.
4. I go too far sometimes.
'....as a child, I dreamt of being a baseball.'
P.S.
Sorry but I won’t be reading this article and posts on it anymore
Its negative, negative and even more negative.
Even raising the question out of nowhere after not having an article posted here for a few days is negative.
Have fun guys and gals dealing in the negative. I will pass, but I just had to make those two posts just because.
#Stop
This article didn’t state that these guys ARE gonna get fat, it just mentioned who is MOST LIKELY to put on weight… i can see why you think that’s negative, but quite frankly, there’s nothing else to talk about, with the lack of basketball being played and all… The most negative thing here is your peculiar Adam-bashing due to his “Amir-bashing”, even though Amir’s name is not even in the article
by superAD on Oct 25, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No one is forcing you read this….and thank you dhackett for pointing out that you just went on a tirade over a player not even mentioned in the article. If you’re gonna post such accusatory comments read the article first and base your argument on that. I think the majority of us here appreciate the effort being made and articles that give us food for thought during this really slow time.
Buddah
Buddah – in the future, before you start laying into me, or anyone else on the site, please READ THE ARTICLE.
1. Amir was never even mentioned in this post!
2. Second, not sure how you construed this as a “negative” article. Light-hearted, yes, but negative? Nowhere did I say that any of these guys ARE going to get fat and in some ways, if they do, who cares? If their performance suffers as a result, yep, that’s an issue, but this article doesn’t even touch on this stuff.
3. This site is all about discussing the team so even if I HAD put him on the list for some reason, I’d hope that you’d be able to discuss in a logical manner, not simply attack myself and other members of the HQ community.
#STOP
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 25, 2011 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
As the days go by
I find myself questioning Budda’s sanity.
There used to be a day someone had to atleast mention Amir before they could be considered bashing him. Now it happens through omosis I guess.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 26, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 26, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Changing the topic a bit
Why don’t the players accept the owners’ offer at 50/50 but on a short term (3 years max) and during this time hire a consulting firm to devise a feasible structure for a players’ run league, consisting of pensions and other necessary entitlements for a post playing career, with each player participant having a lifetime stake where they get a share of ongoing profits? Given the labour strife, and the threat of it repeating itself in the future, and with the way the world is changing, I wonder if this has even been discussed amongst the union as the long term objective.
I bring it up because I know this board to have some bright minds at its disposal and it would be an interesting topic for debate.
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
Because
Once 50/50 is enshrined in the contract, it will be hard to move it back the other way again.
Also, if the player’s actually do set up a league and it is successful, all that will happen is that they will then become the new owners. (My assumption is that for the players league to be successful, it would need to go for at least a couple of years.) They will suffer the irony of being owners who have contract disputes with the non-NBA players in their own league (and there would be an increasing number of these as the player’s league went on).
The Player’s League is an empty threat, and the players and the NBA know it.
Once 50/50 is enshrined in the contract, it will be hard to move it back the other way again.
Exactly.
And considering owners are looking for a 10 year deal, this would be a major step back for them considering how high the BRI was.
Dumb thing is, with all the lost games and pay that players are now facing, I believe they stand to lose MORE revenue then they would have by dropping to 50/50.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 26, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
its all relative though
There are macro and micro arguments going on here at the same time.
Assuming the players ‘win’ the majority of players will not make up the difference of a lost season over the course of their career (the ‘young studs’ almost definetely will, but most players won’t). So at a micro level it makes no sense for the players to risk a lost season for almost any BRI difference.
But any union who only bargains exclusively based on their current base and the current conditions are doing a disservice to their base and future base in the long run. It weakens their bargaining power and, as mentioned above, its tougher to ‘move back’ towards an old agreement.
However, the same applies to the owners aswell.
The question is who flinches first? I imagine it will be the players, but from what I understand someone like Jerry Buss, who’s main source of income is the Lakers, could have a hard time swallowing the loss of a season…. it only takes one from either side to crack, which could lead to a massive change in this lockout.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 26, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
correction
“Assuming the players ‘win’ "
should read, regardless of whether the players ‘win’ or ‘lose’
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 26, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Regarding you mentioning Jerry Buss as an example of an owner not willing to miss an entire season… I’m of the mindset that the leverage gap between Owners and Players is not so extremely in the favour of the owners as has generally been reported. I can think of 6 or 7 teams that I would be deeply suspicious of their ability to withstand a prolonged work stoppage without going under. The Charlottes and Sacramentos of the world, to name a few, would be on the borderline of folding if there was no revenue coming in at all for up to 12 months. This is why I’m cautiously optimistic we’ll have basketball this season. I’ve never for a second believed NBA owners really thought they could get a 47/53% BRI split in their favour AND a hard cap AND contract length and guarantee reductions etc. in one bargaining session and would be willing to sit out until they got it. All PR…
I think the issue would really come down to whether or not Charotte or Sacramento (etc) have more money going out in salary to players then coming in as revenue from TV and Ticket sales. There are a lot more issues going on here then just the battle between the players and the owners. There are a number of franchises that have an unfair competitive advantage because of outside revenue streams that do not end up in all the teams pockets. Small market teams will never make the money a team like Lakers or Knicks make in private broadcasting deals precisely because they are small market. That money is also a driving issue in the lock-out so even if the players did give in to the 50/50, there is no guarantee that the lock-out would end as I believe it requires like 75% of the teams to agree to all conditions.
I'd like to change this around
and ask … who would be in league game shape (not just body-wise) if the league started January 1st.
.
And I’ll take that bet that Amir gets fat before the Raps win a title in either 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, or 2016. lol
.
that may be true for you and me
he can always pull out the wallet argument I am afraid…..
Looks like its Stefanski...
Woj just broke this…
Blockquoted paragraph Toronto is finalizing an agreement with Ed Stefanski to become Raptors Exec. VP of Basketball Operations, league sources tell Y
Seems legit – the Doug just confirmed it. Oh, well.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 26, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Sigh...
Front page post coming…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 26, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
OT But DeMar and Amir Are Or Will Be In T-Dot This Week
At least according to their tweets.
DeMar said he was coming to T-Dot to play some hoops in every gymnasium in T-Dot though I find this hard to believe. Maybe he was joking or just referring to certain gyms.
Amir said he was coming to T-Dot for Amir TV – Halloween Part II and to scare people. Of course the way he plays sometimes scares Raptors fans. LOL
Accoridng To Wojo Pritchard Was Never Seriously Considered
Colangelo conducted a lengthy search and ultimately targeted Stefanski in recent weeks for the job. Former New Orleans Hornets GM Jeff Bower was the runner-up. San Antonio Spurs assistant GM Dennis Lindsey had been a strong candidate, too.
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