Sunday Thought - Should the Raptors and MLSE Compensate Fans?
by Adam Francis on Sep 26, 2010 9:30 AM EDT
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PrintWith a potentially tough season on the way for fans, and possibly a lock-out the year after, the HQ wonders if MLSE shouldn't be taking steps to ensure fans "stick around..."
The National Hockey League has in recent years been looked at as the poor cousin of the other three major sports leagues; the NBA, the NFL and MLB.
However over the past couple of seasons, the NHL has also been the most innovative league in many ways, pioneering the use of social media and the online environment, and since the last CBA, showing a larger amount of fiscal restraint than its richer brothers, all of which could be headed for major labor disputes in the near future.
This past week, I read another example of how the NHL is using innovative techniques to "flip the script" in terms of the way it approaches its relationships, this time with fans.
The St. Louis Blues are offering a sort of "playoff guarantee to fans." They are asking fans to pay only half of the price of certain season tickets up front, the other half payable if and when the Blues' secure a playoff birth.
It's a very interesting idea.
Essentially the Blues are saying to fans that they come first, and that the club is dedicated to improving and making the NHL's big dance, every team's main goal each year.
If I'm a Blues fan I love this idea. It's rare in today's sports world that you get the feeling the fans mean much, especially to clubs like the Toronto Maple Leafs who take a packed arena for granted each night.
So why don't more teams do this?
Well, obviously there's a large financial gamble attached.
Don't make the playoffs and your team could be out a big chunk of change, something that in effect would potentially hinder the club from continuing to improve the following season.
As well, there's a bit of a stigma of desperation attached. It's hard to picture a tradition-tested club like the Lakers or even the Celtics (who did have their lows in the early 2000's) stooping to a gimmick like this.
But doesn't it make sense?
I couldn't help but read the article and think that this is something the Toronto Raptors should consider.
As we discussed earlier this off-season, attendance has been dropping the past couple of seasons, and with the club looking to be one of the league's worst record-wise this coming season, and a lock-out looming, wouldn't such a move make a great deal of sense?
I won't get into it in great detail here, but the lock-out should be a big concern for Raptors' fans. You've gotta wonder just how powerful an impact such a labour-stoppage would have on the Dinos, especially if they come off a 20ish win season where fan interest is obviously dwindling, and frustration with management continues to mount.
We've seen how losing, work stoppages and fiscal restraints have hurt the Jays over the past decade plus, and that was a team with a winning culture through most of the 80's and into the early 90's.
It's hard not to think that the Raps would be hit even harder, and that some sort of way to "give back" to fans isn't something the Raptors and MLSE shouldn't be considering.
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If Depends
Only If The Raptors Fans Agree to be billed for more after the season if The Ewing aka Tiki Theory comes into play for 10-11
If only ha ha!
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Sep 26, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Not as desperate
The NBA, NFL, MLB, and NCAA dwarf the sad NHL. The reason the NHL does these things, like offer a playoff guarantee, is they’re desperate for any revenue. Outside maybe a dozen NHL teams, the rest are all fringe teams in their markets. The sport entertainment competition in the states forces the NHL to do this, otherwise they’d have to fold up a bunch of franchises that are in the red. The NBA shouldn’t follow the lead of the another league who’s already behind them. They need to look at the NFL the king of all major sports.
I agree that leagues should look to the NFL, but if there’s a lock-out and things get pretty grim (see MAS11’s point below), then what?
MLSE’s lucky in that it can use the Leafs perma-coffer to fund things, but to my understanding the Leafs and Raps are run as separate businesses so at some point if the team continues to be a bottom-feeder, it may take an initiative like this to kick start things.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Sep 26, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
St Louis only has two other pro sports teams (one of which doesn’t compete with them directly for most of the year because they play in the summer) and the Blues can draw from KC as well the surrounding area without a lot of competition from other Hockey teams. Not sure what other pro sports are going on in the area but it is not like NY where there are a million pro teams in just about every sport. I think the Blues push is more about the US economy being a mess still then about their competition with other sports.
More doom and gloom...
Hate to pile on here, but Doug Smith actually brought up a good point in his blog yesterday (I know, I’m as surprised as you…). With a lockout looming, its possible that some underclassmen decide to forgoe the draft and go back to collage for another year.
So in the year where the Raps could secure good position in the draft, there may be a shortage of talent. Perfect. The Bargnani draft all over again. FML.
And this is just scary…Chad Ford kicked the idea around recently and I immediately felt sick to my stomach.
“With the 3rd pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, the Toronto Raptors select Jimmer Fredette…”
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Sep 26, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not so sure about this. If these guys all wait a year to declare, then there will be more competition for the top spots in the following year’s draft, which can cost a lot of these guys millions of dollars. One year you are a top 5 pick and the next you potentially fall out of the top 10. It is possible!
by Assistant GM on Sep 26, 2010 8:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Also, if there is a lockout, then the team that finished bottom of the pre-lockout draft presumably still gets first pick in the post-lockout draft. The difference is that you get 2 years worth of talent to pick from instead of just one.
Could actually be a big win for the raps.
I think the issue though is that no team has drafted 1st overall in back to back years since the 80’s when Orlando did it and the weighting system was different. Toronto could potentially get a a weak #1 the first year and only a decent prospect (think another Chris Bosh who took 3 or 4 years to develop) in the second draft instead of a true franchise player.
What about the consideration that if the lockout lasts a full year (past June 25th), there might not BE a draft in 2012. If all league operations are shut down, players who withdraw from this draft may have to wait until 2013 to be eligible to play, even if the lockout ends before the start of the 2012 season.
by dhackett1565 on Sep 27, 2010 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
If there is going to be a lockout it is because the owners want a bigger slice of the pie. Players not yet in the league(ie potential draftees) almost always get the short end of the stick when the trade-offs start getting made. If there is another draft before the lockout then it might actually be a good one because players will want to get drafted and signed under the existing terms(which will more than likely be better than the terms of whatever new CBA comes into force).
This is all total speculation of course, maybe there won’t even be a lockout.
I just don't understand the negative prognosis
The team is not going to win only 20 something games. Somehow you have convinced so I’m not going to harp on it.
But anyway, you have to consider where the revenue comes from for the different leagues. Basketball and football are primarily television products that draw a portion of revenues from the gate. Basketball especially might be the most significant generator of non-US revenues. The pressure for it to resort to gimmick pricing should not exist.
The NHL remains a primarily regional league that draws a majority of their revenues from the gate. Haven’t paid much attention the Blues but I’m sure they would not be trying something like this if they didn’t see themselves as making the playoffs. It would be foolish otherwise because not only would your in-season attendance be poor given the losing, but your season ticket money would fall short of buffering against significant losses.
And about this “the Draft Will Save Us” view of things. So many unforeseen circumstances could impact not only the quality but impact of drafted players that to simply throw up one’s arms and wait for that sexy top 3 pick seems like a good way to waste a season’s worth of basketball viewership. The Atlanta Hawks, blessed with many consecutive years of high picks, took forever to realize success and now that the success is here are not projected to achieve a championship considering how things have changed around them.
Enjoy what’s here, it might surprise you.
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
Not a given that the Blues strategy will lose them money. It’s possible that if people are counting on lower priced tix, more people will buy them, so they get more volume on lower margin, and so still come out ok. Plus if they then do make the playoffs (not a given, but possible for them), then they suddenly get high volume x a high price, and they’re laughing all the way to the bank.
So bottom line, it depends on how price sensitive their ticket sales are, and whether people would buy these season tix assuming they were likely to get that lower price (and figuring that they won’t care so much paying more anyway if the Blues do make it). So it could be an idiot move, or it might just be a genius one.
The Altanta Hawks, like many teams over the years, blew their drafts by drafting targeting the same type of althletic wing player instead of going for the best available. Think about where Atlanta would be now if they had taken Chris Paul instead of Marvin Williams. Also, if you think this team has a pretty good basis now, wouldn’t a franchise player, inserted into the current lineup, turn them into contenders?
Absolutely Not
Wow. Everyone here is so in favor of a rebuild. Can’t shoot for success now at risk of the future. Have to build through the draft. Trade vets for picks, even take on bad salary if futures come with it.
And you want the Raps to APOLOGIZE to you (by giving a refund) for doing exactly as you wish? When we all know full well that the last thing anyone wants is for BC to trade away all our youth for a few overpaid vets that could get us the 8th spot?
Gotta say, this is the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen on here.
They are in a rebuild out of necessity, not because the fans want it.
The only reason it is necessary is because of poor management.
This is not the fans fault, The Raptors organization is not some kind of privelege bestowed on the public, it is a business designed to make money. If the product sucks, sales go down. When sales do down, prices need to be cut to keep up. I don’t think the fans want an apology, they are merely looking for a reason to keep buying. MLSE should have to do what ever they need to.
So you would prefer BC makes a bunch of ‘BC moves’ and the Raps squeak into the playoffs? Because those are the sort of moves a playoff-conditional ticket price encourages.
And if the Raps are making money (and they will, with BC at the helm), they have no reason to lower prices, except to make fans happier. You think the Jays have attendance problems because they charge too much for tickets? The Jays haven’t made the playoffs in years, and worse, there is no indication that they ever will again. There is simply no hope. Even in the spending years, attendance wasn’t great, because until the Red Sox and Yankees stop spending (ie the apocalypse) there’s no chance.
If the fans all go away over the next few years, and ticket sales are low, but the rebuild works and the Raps make it to, say, the conference finals, that arena will be full. Until then, unless the team is losing money, they have no reason to cut ticket prices.
by dhackett1565 on Sep 27, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Your response is all over the place and I’m not following. This post was about MLSE taking some responsibilty for a poor product. I’m not sure how the Jays factor into this, and I’m also not sure why you are making excuses for a franchise in it’s 16th year. If a rebuild is the way to go, then fine. But I won’t be buying tickets. I’ll probably still watch but, MLSE won’t directly be getting any money from me.
This post actually directly references the Jays, so I’m not sure how I lost you there.
I’m making no excuses. They don’t need excuses. They make money hand over fist with BC at the helm, and I don’t see why the team would lower ticket prices. I expect you wouldn’t be giving them any money even if they did lower ticket prices, so what is their motivation to lower them?
The fans who are so casual won’t be lost long term – a winning team down the road will draw them back like flies to a flame. The die-hards fall mostly into one of two categories – the disgruntled fans (you), who won’t buy tickets as a statement, regardless of price (“MLSE won’t directly be getting any money from me”). Or, they are the loyalists, who will go see the team regardless of ticket prices (to an extent, obviously). So where is the benefit of lowering prices, except if their current model loses money, which there is no indication that it will.
by dhackett1565 on Sep 27, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
The benefit is to reach out to disgruntled fans, because I’m not sure how many “loyalists” there are in support of the Raptors. We aren’t talking about the leafs here, we are talking about a fanbase that jumps on the wagon when they are doing well (general statement, i realize there are some loyalists). This is the same fanbase that still blames Chris Bosh for alot of the short comings the Raptors have faced the last few years.
I do see your point after another read, especially since lowering prices may increase volume, but probably decrease revenue.
Andray Blatche - 5 years, 35 million
Interesting since it’s a comparable amount to what we’re paying Amir.
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