Bright Side of the Sun Weighs in on Barbosa
All week the HQ will be reaching out to fellow bloggers for some insight on the newest members of the team. Today, we kick things off with a little help from Bright Side of the Sun, as Raptors HQ takes another look at Leandro Barbosa...
We've said it before and we'll say it again, one of the best things about being part of the SB Nation basketball platform is the wealth of knowledge in tow, knowledge that's readily accessible whenever the need should arise.
With what appears to be a bit of a lull in Raptors' news, we thought this week therefore would be a good time to get some further insight on some of the newest Dinos with help from our blogging partners across the SB Nation network.
To this end, post Hedo Turkoglu trade, we reached out to Seth Pollack of Bright Side of the Sun to get his take on one of the newest Raptors.
Here were his thoughts:
I won't cover what everyone already knows about LB. His speed, ability to attack off the dribble and get into the lane and three-point shooting.
What we've come to learn about Barbosa is that his lack of court vision and creative passing has really limited his offensive game. He's super quick but doesn't play above the rim so defenses have learned to collapse on him and contest his shot by standing tall. LB almost never finds the open man once he puts his head down which means his counter against good help defense is to initiate contact and hope for a whistle and/or throw the ball high off the glass at some odd angle and hope it goes in.
He's a streaky mid-range shooter who can get hot and be unstoppable at times but he generally needs significant minutes to get into that kind of rhythm. That means he needs to be playing 20 to 25 minutes per game to be most effective which creates other problems since he's a defensive liability at either the two or one. He'll get the occasional steal but he never developed any kind of instincts for team defense and will require a lot of work to pick up complex rotation schemes.
The lack of defense, the inability to run a team as a true point and the need to play consistent, big minutes really have made Leandro's role in the NBA a bit complicated. Because of his size, it's hard to play him big minutes off-the-ball which negates a lot of his spot-up shooting. He needs the ball in his hands and isn't likely to give it up willingly.
He clearly benefits from playing in a system that values speed and scoring over discipline and execution.
He's a great guy, one of the nicest you'll meet, but he's not a competitive leader type and has a reputation for being a bit soft when it comes to physical contact and playing through pain. Hopefully, the change of scenery will do him good but this deal seems more about the Raptors getting rid of Hedo than really adding a valuable player.
I followed this up by asking Seth about Barbosa's iso-game. As we discussed in the first post on the topic, the Synergy stats plus his two free-throws a game seemed to indicate that he wasn't someone who constantly took guys off the bounce. I wondered if his speed simply allowed him to get to the rim untouched, or most of his work at the hoop was done off of fast-breaks thereby negating free-throws.
Seth's take:
He either beats his man and pulls up for a mid-range J or gets in the lane and hopes. He's not a great finisher with contact so he basically is just tossing things high off the glass. Some go in. Many don't.
Back in this prime when he was putting up big numbers, the Suns were running a TON and he got a lot of open court transition buckets but recently the Suns slowed down to a more reasonable (still fast) pace and he didn't get as many of those open looks. When he was on the floor with Nash, they also almost always connected for a back door cut at least once per game but like I said, it's hard to play him at the 2 for long.
Based on this, I then thought it would benefit to take a look at some pace statistics from the Colangelo regime.
My first assumption was that the team played slower under Sam Mitchell than under Jay Triano but the stats don't bear that out. In all four years of Colangelo-ball, the team had a pace rating of about 92, good for about middle of the pack in the league.
The team's slowest year was Sam Mitchell's second in charge, which is surprising because the team still had TJ Ford and Jose Calderon running the show. I expected the next season with the JO experiment to take the cake in terms of "plodding along" but that was not the case.
But as Seth noted in his final correspondence with me on the subject:
Pace is a funny number...what it comes down to is how you attack early in the clock. In Suns run and gun days when LB was putting up big numbers they were pulling up / spotting up for an open three in transition. LB would get open looks like that. The Suns don't play that way anymore but still play fast. Not sure how the Raptors will play. Also remember in his day, LB was the 3rd guard in a 3 guard rotation so he got a ton of minutes.
I would want to understand the Raptors rotation and who he's on the floor with and how they play. That to me would be the key. If you are expecting him to be an effective backup PG who runs the offense...that didn't work so well.
It's a solid point.
Really, pace matters little in the grand scheme of things as long as you're executing to your strengths.
That may mean early shot-clock attempts ala the Suns in the "7 seconds or less" days.
Or that may mean late in the clock in a grind-it-out Boston Celtics style.
For Toronto, I'm not sure either is a natural fit at this point, but for Barbosa and co. to be as effective as possible next season, the burden lies on Triano and his staff to figure out the best offensive mix possible.
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Barbosa + tall PG
It seems like Barbosa would work well with a tall PG who could guard the two. Toronto, unfortunately, doesn’t have any one like that(Bellinelli, maybe). It’s hard to see how playing him with either Jack or Calderon won’t result in a repeat of last year’s defensive issues. In general, I don’t see Barbosa fitting in very well with Toronto’s current lineup. On the plus side, at least he’s not Turk.
Looking at our roster...
I would be interested in seeing how Barbosa and Belli would mesh on the floor, I think they would be an interesting pairing. I think Bellinelli would cover many of Leandro’s weaknesses on both sides of the floor. I think both of them would be able to fly down the court too. With Bellinelli’s versatility (PG, SG, SF), the minutes created by the departures of Turk, Antoine and possibly one of our PG’s and another year of settling into the team; I say Bellinelli is my darkhorse Raptor for the year.
Walker McKenna
by Robert Archibald on Aug 9, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, I’d love to see that too but I just don’t see it happening. The way Triano is basically setting this team up, we’re not going to see much of Barbosa and Belli together, nor will we see Weems and DeRozan. I hope I’m wrong, since I think those would be the most interesting pairs and would have the ability to develop some pretty good chemistry, but where does that leave Kleiza?
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 9, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
PF of the small line up?
Walker McKenna
by Robert Archibald on Aug 9, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Possibly, but that won’t be something that we’ll trot out all the time. At least I hope not.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 9, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
if "pg" =
piece of garbage…then yes I agree,
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Aug 9, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Key Piece on a Good Team
Barbosa is a tempo changer, you can insert him into your lineup and he instantly picks up the pace of the game because he only knows how to play fast. However, one thing that the Bright Side of the Sun (BSS) touched on was his limitations which essentailly makes him a pure scorer with poor defense and no passing ability. He sounds like a poor mans Ben Gordon. Do we really have the team that can cover up his weaknesses? No
We still have no interior defense, and are short upfront with amir, bargs being the realistical starters and little or no help coming in off the bench.
The fact is if we can make some additions upfront he could really help us but as of right now he is going to have poor shot selection and a lot of defensive misques.
I think that’s a key thing here. Some are saying Barbosa should start but I think ideally he comes off the bench to really switch up the pace and style of the game. “A poor man’s Ben Gordon” is a very apt description too so it’s really up to Triano to use him like a sparkplug, and not some 38 minute-a-game option.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 9, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Will a run 'n gun style work in the East?
New reader, first time poster.
I am concerned that as BC tries to adapt the Suns’ run ‘n gun style to the Raps, Phoenix has achieved some of its best success by slowing down their pace and placing more emphasis on defense and rebounding. On top of that, the Jose/Jack/Barbosa combo does not come close to matching the vision, creativity and aggressiveness of Nash and now Drajic. Even with a player like Nash at the controls, I’m not convinced such a style would work in the slow it down, grind it out Eastern Conference.
Also, I realize that the point of trading the Turk was to get rid of the cancer that he was but I find Seth Pollack’s description of Barbosa’s lack of vision, ability to finish and inability to defend disappointing. Considering how everyone talks about his speed/quickness it’s really disappointing to hear that he can’t defend on or off the ball on the perimeter.
Yeah I think Seth’s comments really should speak to the fact that Barbosa is probably a great 7th or 8th man on a championship team; he can come in and do what he does best ala Eddie House.
But expecting him to be a major boost to the club next year given some of the limitations of his game is a stretch.
Again though, to a certain extent it depends on what sort of role he’s given.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 9, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree on that. I don’t think we’ll see a true run n’ gun style… At least not with our current point guard configuration. Jose Calderon is best in a half court set and a guy like Jarrett Jack is solid, but not super fast. I’m not convinced we’re really going to see an all out blistering pace unless Triano manages to get this team way up in endurance in off season training, something I haven’t really seen from a Raptors team.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 9, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not convinced
“Jose is best in a half court set”. I think this is an error in thought… much like the Jose can’t pass an alley oop was. I think he will work well anyway (on offense) as long as the other players can follow suit.
Much like people claimed Jose couldn’t throw an alley-oop… it was clear last year (and previous years) that this was more a function of people not to throw an alley-oop to. Last year he did fine pushing the ball and closer to a “run- and-gun” when he was on the floor with guys who actually did run (ie. Johnson and Weems). Regardless of how this team plays Jose will fit in.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 9, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
whoops cut myself off....
I think Jose will fit fine in any style and don’t think he is (necessarily) best in a half court set. Last year he played great with Weems and Johnson running the floor. I think Jose ‘looking better’ in a half court set was more of a function of having guys that didn’t run the floor (Bosh, Rasho, Moon, Parker, Hedo etc). Just like people used to say Jose couldn’t throw an alley-oop, as soon as he had guys that actually went to the net (Demar, Weems, Johnson) the alley oops started coming out.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 9, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t doubt that he can play other styles, but the reason why Jose was just so good was just how much pick and roll he could play and how high of a shooting percentage he has. I’m not saying he can’t get to the basket, because he’s proven to be very efficient at changing tempo to create a gap. However, in the past few years, it’s been that move that has sidelined Jose for weeks.
And yeah, I think it just took time for him to get used to throwing ‘da oop. I mean, he certainly wasn’t as poor as Mark Jackson was
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 9, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
as amazing as Steve Nash is
and I don’t want to discredit him in anyway (and I think he is one of the best pgs ever to play), one of the top assets the Suns used in the run and gun was wearing their opponent out. From what I understand most of their practices were cardio and they simply outlasted their opponents. They wouldn’t allow their opponents to slow down, simply by giving them opportunities for fast breaks (when you jack quick shots their will be a lot of rebounds and players out of position). The only team they couldn’t “trick” into running was the spurs, and that was an experienced, well coached, mentally tough team. Every team always said pre-game “we’ll slow down the pace”, but they never did.
I think it could work fine in the east as I really don’t see as many “slow the pace” teams in the east (only Boston and Milwakee). And those even there I only see Boston as a team that would certainly have the mental toughness to slow the pace.
That said, Nash is/was an amazing player and there is no doubt that team was much worse off without him, but they also didn’t have another PG to even remotely fill his role (until this year) when he was out. Having two reliable PGs may be enough.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 9, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I really think people are making a bigger deal about LB’s limitations then needed. If he puts up 8 ppg off the bench or 12 ppg as a starter and doesn’t bitch about touches I will actually be very happy. His contract is only 2 years right now and then he will be gone. Worrying about his lack of perimeter defense on a team with almost defense is like worrying about the small hall in the damn while ignoring the massive one.
i think its like taking a drill and making that hole bigger
by raptors_run_the_show on Aug 9, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Solid analogy.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 9, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
This is one of these acquisitions that really achieves the purpose of moving an undesirable contract…and if his offence can be enough of a boost to offset any defensive issues, all the better.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 9, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Barbosa Will Be A Bench Guy
Teams don’t build their offenses around their bench players. Geez
On top of if Kleiza starts Weems will be the first option on the second unit not Barbosa.
Building anything around Barbosa would not be too smart to say the least.
LAST PLACE?
I personally can’t see Raptors being the worst team in the East, but ESPN’s forecast puts Toronto at the bottom of the conference:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-EastStandings
Kind of like in the article right above this, where the HQ already linked this? Hours before you made this comment?
by dhackett1565 on Aug 10, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
whoops
For some reason, this didn’t show up in the archive list (which is where I had bookmarked).
Thanks for being a douche though!
Suns fan
I think Seth is a little off base on his critique, or at least judging Barbosa mainly from last year. I have seen LB play since his rookie year and he is a great, great player. He didnt get his usual minutes last year because of our new bench and had some injuries. When comfortable on the court LB is near unstoppable, to say he has speed is an understatement. He hits the open 3, corner pocket 3, has midrange game i mean whats not to like.
hes also clutch, Mike D would go to him for game winners/tieing baskets in crunch time (bulls 05 anyone?) 40% career 3 pt shooter im sad to see him go, you guys picked up a great player













