A Eulogy for Hedo
by Adam Francis on Aug 3, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
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PrintHedo's been gone for a while but apparently isn't ready to be forgotten. After one last (maybe) jab at the Raptors' organization, the HQ takes a final look at the Ottoman's brief career as a Dino...
This hasn't exactly been the best off-season for the Toronto Raptors.
Their franchise player goes about the free-agency process with little to no regard for his former team before leaving, last season's big free agent acquisition is unceremoniously dumped, two trades fall through after being leaked to the masses, and verbal jousts take place in the media between the current General Manager and two of the team's former cornerstones post departure.
At this rate DeMar DeRozan will be asking for a trade by October and Amir Johnson will need season-ending surgery shortly after.
In the latest incident of this nightmarish summer for TO, former small forward Hedo Turkoglu lashed out at GM Bryan Colangelo and the Raptors organization saying:
"People have to realize something is wrong with that organization and nobody wants to go there any more...It's not just the players who see this."
Taken as a one-off statement, ordinarily this sort of thing wouldn't be a big deal.
It would simply look like a case of sour grapes, a former player trying to sway public opinion in his new zip code, hoping to put a horrendous previous year behind him.
But now, combined with some of the other situations previously alluded to, it admittedly has a more profound impact in my opinion. As well, Hedo's statement to Fox Sports Arizona doesn't exactly come off sounding simply like the rantings of someone holding a grudge. I wrote Saturday that I didn't agree with BC's statements to the Fan590 regarding Bosh, and really, that's the basis of Hedo's latest "sounding off." His statements really have very little to do with his situation last year, so it's hard to just brush them off as inane ramblings.
However one thing's for certain.
Turk's latest salvo simply adds more fuel to the argument that signing the former Magic swingman was the worst decision in Bryan Colangelo's tenure, if not the worst in the franchise's history.
And this is where the claims of "revisionist history" start to come out; weren't the majority of Raptors' fans pumped to have Hedo in a Raptors' jersey?
If I had to put it to vote, I think one of our previous polls from last summer sums up the breakdown nicely; 65% of readers loved the Hedo acquisition, about 30% hated it, and the remaining 5 or so per cent didn't think it would make a difference one way or another. I've made my share of incorrect prognostications over the years (Tyrus Thomas as the top pick overall in 96) but much like being adamant in my stance that Portland should have taken Kevin Durant over Greg Oden, as you can read here in my 4 AM post-draft thoughts from a few years back, I was dead-set in my opinion that the Turkoglu signing would be big trouble for Toronto.
I ranted and raved against the player one of our readers geniusly dubbed "The Ottoman" before he even came on board with Toronto, and when it became clear that he was being targeted last summer by the Raptors, I wanted to scream. No other topic have I been more passionate about, not even that the Jose-Roko PG experiment was a disaster waiting to happen.
But, despite my decries and those of others like Kelly Dwyer and John Hollinger, the Big Turk became the Dinos' prized free-agent acquisition.
Nearly a year later, the same prized free-agent acquisition is now a grumpy member of the Phoenix Suns, swapped for Leandro Barbosa without much fanfare.
Just how big of a disaster was Hedo's time in Toronto?
Well, it wasn't good.
For starters, the "box score stats:"
Season A Tm G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL PTS
2008-09
29
ORL
77
77
36.6
5.5
13.3
.413
.356
4.1
5.1
.807
5.3
4.9
0.8
16.8
2009-10
30
TOR
74
69
30.7
3.7
9.1
.409
.374
2.4
3.1
.774
4.6
4.1
0.7
11.3
As you can see, we're talking about a player who was down essentially across the board in terms of his stats from the previous season, and his other more complex statistical measuring sticks showed similar declines too - a drop in PER from almost 15 to 13.3, and a drop in win score from 7.3 to 3.4.
Any way you cut it, this simply wasn't what the Raptors undoubtedly were counting on when they signed him to what even then looked to be an egregious five-year deal.
Even aside from his individual production issues the signing was a disaster.
He showed up to camp out of shape and never really seemed to get it going, he was a PR disaster between the off-court partying and "cell-phone snatching" incidents and on-court situations like his refusal to wear a protective mask despite the Raptors' orders.
Oh, and we can't forget the greatest Raptors' in-game interview of all time:
However the culmination of the failure really was Toronto's performance as a team where despite the high-profile upgrade attempts, the Raptors again missed the big dance, slumping towards the finish line, losing games that Hedo was brought in to help win in the clutch.
A player Bryan Colangelo had brought in to be "clutch" for the team turned out to be so only in his absence from media dealings, and in disruptive outbursts, something he off course continued into this off-season before and after being traded.
I talked to the Raptors' PR folks while in Vegas about Hedo, asking if he had ever been fined for his public "anti-Raptors" rant after the season. Apparently he had not, but I got the impression that it was because everyone knew he had punched his ticket out of town a long time before so it was really inconsequential at that point. No matter what BC said in his end-of-season media address regarding making Hedo a more focal point of the offense the following season, you just got the impression that Toronto was trying to run as far away from "The Ottoman" as possible.
And really, while Hedo's "ball" comment was both ridiculous and hysterical at the same time, he did have a point. I never felt Toronto used Turk to his strengths and for all of Hedo's faults (pylon defense, lack of hustle, fear of contact etc, etc,) a good chunk of discussion on the site last season was surrounding Jay Triano and staff's inability to use the former Magic swingman to the best of his abilities. There was the Jarrett Jack-Jose Calderon-Turkoglu "too many cooks in the kitchen" experiment, one that our readers labeled "the triangle of death," and many more bizarre decisions regarding his use. Statistically, while he spent very little time at the spot, Hedo was actually most effective last season playing the power forward position in fact!
If that doesn't speak to the issues with Hedo and his "fit" with the Raptors' line-up, I'm not sure what does.
And finally, in combination with Hedo's fit, and his individual issues, there was the opportunity cost associated in acquiring him that in my books has cemented this transaction as the worst in franchise history. There weren't a ton of great free-agents on the market last season, and who knows, maybe many had no interest in heading north of the border, but it's hard not to look back and think that throwing Hedo's salary at a Trevor Ariza, or even overpaying for a combination of players like The Birdman and oh, I don't know, Matt Barnes, wouldn't have made more sense.
But yes, as they say, hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure had Bryan Colangelo been equipped with it, or a Flux Capacitor, then the Hedo mistake would never have occurred or have been by now erased from the history books.
To that end I bid Turk good riddance.
Never in franchise history has one player done so much damage and provided so little return on investment in such a short time period.
Hedo's now taken his "ball"-loving ways to the Suns and as of this morning, the "Hedo Contract Counter" has been removed.
At the HQ, we're moving forward from the disaster known as "The Ottoman."
Ok...after we watch this one more time:
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Poll the Audience
How about a poll on this question: who is the worst acquisition (not necessarily free agent) in Raps history? He’s up there, but how about Zo? or Hoffa? We need to settle this properly.
throwing Hedo's salary at a Trevor Ariza
BC did that (or close to it). Ariza signed for less elsewhere, he had no interest coming to TO.
I don’t think he ever did. I remember asking him about his strategy at media day last year and he said Hedo was their first and only target…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 3, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we had offered Ariza above MLE but he still declined – his two offers from LAL/HOU were both full MLE.
Yeah, Raps would’ve had to go significantly above the mid-level to attract Ariza… but probably nowhere near what they gave Hedo.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 3, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think salaries were really the issue
BC wanted someone who could perform in clutch situations. Ariza has never been known as that guy.
You mean he didn’t want defense and athleticism on the wing?
We most definitely offered Ariza an above-market contract which was declined. Ariza just didn’t want to come here.
Apparently not as much as he wanted a big name aquisition who could alledgedly help us in late game situations. I was unaware that we actually offered Ariza anything at all. That kinda sucks.
Once Hedo was signed, of course BC was going to say he was their #1 choice…
Yeah, Ariza went to LA for a couple million less a year.
by dhackett1565 on Aug 3, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
It was reported that we offered Ariza a contract last year (before Hedo) and that we were considered “finalists” for his services. He inevitably decided that he was a better fit in Houston, “but he really considered Toronto” (it was probably bull—-)…I do clearly remember reading an article while I was starving for Raptor-related news in Europe last summer.
Here's the thing
I think one of the issues that make these free agent signings so poor of late is that the Raptors have never really had an identity or a clearly identifiable system of play. The players are signed hoping they will fit chemistry-wise with the players off the court with the on-the-court fit neglected or not paid much attention to.
Notice how some of the better acquisitions (Marion, even Amir Johnson) have been fill in the gap type players/refined “garbage men”. Turk, JO, even Kapono were better in their previous incarnations because their teams played in ways that gave them defined roles within the offense and defense. This is one thing the Raptors need to correct if they want to get the most out of the free agent dollars spent.
Everyone who goes to the Lakers knows they will have to play the Triangle, and other teams have styles of play that the players are clearer on than they would be for the Raptors.
As for all of these comments about Toronto as a destination: the sky isn’t falling. People still sign with the Clippers, Sarver of the Suns hasn’t been the best of owners, and Atlanta’s ownership situation remains a mess.
The Raptors do have to look at things slightly differently though. They can’t expect and shouldn’t plan around keeping their picks beyond the first extension/RFA stage. Or, in the case of acquisitions via trade, the window of opportunity with that particular player is however long is left on the contract. There are exceptions (Amir) but if they view their situation this way (that at most the player will be around for 7 to 8 years) they can make better personnel decisions going forward. In all honesty, in today’s NBA, 7 to 8 years with one team is an eternity to see if it works.
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
Building a portfolio?
I’d compare Colangelo’s team building style these past few seasons a bit to a guy trying to build an investment portfolio. He figured that the Raptors were light on outside shooting, so he brought in Kapono because of his strength as a shooter. Then he thought they needed more clutch play and ball movement, so he brings in Hedo. It seems like the idea is that if you pile up everyone’s strengths then that will add up to a strong team. That might work as an investment style(get some mineral stocks, some gold, some financials, some bonds, whatever and you have a nice diversified portfolio). However, Colangelo’s team building style seemed to forget or ignore that players can’t just be added together, they had to fit with eachother.
One of the advantages of this year’s line-up, as it currently stands, is that you can see combinations that seem fairly logical(eg. Bargnani-Johnson-Weems-DeRozan-Jack). While the talent might not stack up against other teams, at least you can see how a coherent line-up could be put on the floor.
Why isint Triano to Blame..
triano is the douchebag of all coaches – hes clearly out of his league. Blame him for not being able to control a team. Sam would have dressed up bosh himself and dragged his ass out on the floor for the last 6 games..
he would have also shown turkaflu where to go stick that ball after the interview..
it starts at the top with BC/Triano
Common!!!
Are you serious? JT is out of his league, but Smitch would have somehow thrived??? Sam was clearly out of his league. His offensive schemes lacked anything resembling creativity and he hit the panick button at the first mistake any player not named Bosh made. JT has his problems he needs to overcome, but he is not responsible for Hedo being a Douche and Bosh phoning in the last part of the season.
not saying sam was any way better – im just saying triano needs to be blamed for some uninspiring mediocre coaching and someone who was too pally with the players for them to fully respect him (mid season fiasco with the euros and wright) When hedo says there’s something wrong with the organization – he also means the coaching staff who had no clue on how to effectively use him. What’s the point of signing on hedo just to bring the ball across half court and have him stand around to watch bosh hog the ball.
I give absolutely no credence to anything Hedo says. As far as I’m concerned it was him jumping at the chance to slam his former team (sour grapes). The only major problem with management and coaching (besides a few rookie mistakes) were them being WAY too lenient with Hedo.
The problem is a lot of the time perception becomes reality, so the more former players (fairly big name ones at that) talk poorly about the organization, the more it resonates with a US audience that doesn’t know better. Toronto fights a bit of an uphill battle as it is in this regard so Hedo, Bosh and whoever saying this sort of stuff definitely doesn’t help.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
And that is unfortunate. I agree, it’s bad enough that SOME players treat being sent to Toronto is like being sent to exile. Hedo’s comments don’t help that view. Thouhg I would hope most people could see through his comments for what they really are.
Also, getting back to the original post, I don’t think Triano is the douchebag of all coaches. That was off side.
I wonder if we could get an anonymous poll amongst the player on what is the least desirable location in the NBA i think minni would be last
by raptors_run_the_show on Aug 3, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
mitchell
How was Mitchell any worse? At least Mitchell had some on-court success wit the Raptors. You diss him but laud a 65-82 coach? I am willing to wager that if you gave Mitchell last years team they would have won more games than Triano did.
Maybe Mitchell wasn’t a brilliant offensive strategist, but if you check the stats the team was fine offensively during his tenure but was no where near as bad defensively as under Triano’s reign.
I don’t blame Mitchell for sitting down players that were clueless defensively (BargnanI) which is what ultimately got him fired.
While I do agree that Triano is not responsible for not getting Turkolgu to play well (no coach should have to motivate a veteran to play), he is the decision maker (hopefully) when it comes to giving out minutes and Hedo should have seen way more bench time than he did and should have never been force-fed the ball late in games, so we could watch 26 ft fadeaway attempts to win a game.
That I blame Triano for. Turkolglu was unprofessional and non-accountable so he should have been treated like that kind of player instead of the continuous pampering.
Mitchell was fine in finding the right line-ups to use and would have never have stood for Hedo’s antics. I’ve seen him sit Carter down when he thought he wasn’t going all out which was the right thing to do and a good example to set for the other players on the team.
by stretch bigman on Aug 3, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really think that Smitch was worse. I was actually against firing Smitch. I find the coaching carousel in Toronto is one of the worst in the league. What I took exception to was the insinuation that we would have been better off with Mitchell. In my oppinion, this is not true. Both were hired on as rookie coaches. Both had their challenges. They both had their strengths. I wasn’t lauding Triano, I was defending him. He takes a lot of criticism on this site. Some of it fair, a lot of it unfair.
“I am willing to wager that if you gave Mitchell last years team they would have won more games than Triano did.”
GAME!!! I’ll wager two and a half million dollars. How are we going to figure this out?
I agree with Rapster
I beleive the last two playoff appearances were with Smitch at the helm.
Triano doesn’t seem to understand that rewarding lazy people with more minutes doesn’t help the team.
I agree you and Rapster that...
Triano needs to take a stiffer stance with lazy, uninspired play. That I will concede.
I don't think its fair
to call Triano a douchebag. He may not have done a good job… but that doesn’t make you a douchebag
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 4, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
There is something to be said for Triano’s role in all of this. However, for me it has more to do with the fact that Turk was coddled for too long, up to the point when they tried to correct the behaviour, it was too late. This has a lot to do with him being a neophyte and also a bit of a yes man. As for Rapster’s comments on Mitchell, I totally agree. He wouldn’t have allowed any of that Hedo crap to go on (disparaging comments to the media, complaining about his role, not playing defence, being lazy, coming to camp out of shape, etc. etc. etc…). However, BC would then fire him like the coward that he is simply for holding one of BC’s signings accountable.
I made my position very clear when SMitch was fired, that it was a mistake, driven by a GM that was trying to deflect criticism of a defective roster. A self protection, scapegoating move by BC. I was killed by an angry mob of Smitch haters at the time, who blamed him for all the Raptor issues. Since then the team has gotten WORSE!
I don’t think Smitch’s firing was a mistake. In that final season, it was clear to me that the only players Smitch trusted on offense was Calderon and Bosh. (One could argue that given the crap that was on the roster, those two players were the only ones worth trusting). Smitch was and is a motivational coach and was very successful at getting his teams to play hard every night. Usually, he could get them to play hard enough to make up for the rather limited Xs and Os schemes he ran. In the final season, it seemed as though the team was no longer giving the effort on a consistent basis. With a motivational coach, that is the kiss of death.
I liked Sam Mitchel’s time as a coach. I think he did a great job and you could see him improving from year to year.
C’mon Franchise – I think this post is another unfair shot at Bryan Colangelo. I can’t sit here and continue to read the negativity day after day.
The Hedo Turkoglu signing was a great move. In no way did Colangelo overpay for a barely average player who was clearly on the decline. And it gave Triano the option of using the dynamic Turkoglu-Calderon-Jack lineup for extended stretches.
The real reason the Raptors missed the playoffs last season was because Andrea Bargnani didn’t receive enough touches (even if he had one of the highest usage rates and shot attempts for a second option on any team in the NBA).
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 3, 2010 9:58 AM EDT reply actions
Aaaah D Stance…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 3, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Let’s not leave Bosh blameless in all of this – tanking the Raps’ entire season while setting career highs in PPG, FG%, and RPG to throw everyone off the scent.
Curious?
What was the records with Bosh not in the lineup?
The stats you are using are very subjective, how do you know that Bosh didn’t have to score those 30 points because our other “offensive options” were having off nights, in turn leading to a loss more than Bosh “hogging the ball”. How long are we going to debate this nonsense?
I was kidding, by the way.
In games where he scored 30+, he shot 56% and went to the line 12.5 times but we still lost more often than not!Having watched a number of these dominant performances go to waste, I subscribe to the weak teammates theory.
I’d argue that sometimes in games where Bosh really dominated the ball his teammates tended to switch off. I guess you have blame them for that more than him.
I think if your best player is shooting well above 50% and going to the line above 12 times, that is your best option. Also, my experience from last year is yes there were games where Bosh carried the load offensively and the team still lost, however without Bosh doing so they would have been blown out.
As far as Bosh dominating the ball, when the rest of the team is so piss-poor, as the coach I would absolutely encourage more oportunities for Bosh, as again he’s shooting over 50% and going to the line over 12 times and therefore statistically far and away your best option and considering the roster maybe your only option at times.
LOL Fantastic.
Funny thing is people actually say things like this…
Best Available Option at the Time
I’ll keep saying it, but it’s that mantra that Colangelo had at the beginning of last summer that really did us in. I remember specifically talking to Howland on the subway home from a meeting in February (2 years ago) that I said that Colangelo was going to target Hedo, and boy was I right. In Colangelo’s mind, this will never be a mistake because he got the guy that “everyone wanted” in that summer and he also got a guy who was the best available free agent at the time.
None of which actually talks about having a piece that fit the Raptors needs.
Which goes back to this whole thing about “strategy”. The Raptors had traded away the massive expiring JO deal and a pick for Shawn Marion for a SF who rebounded, who instantly made this team better. Instead of following this trend, our GM just went around and signed “the best” player on the market without any regard to what happened in the previous years when we had a guy like Jason Kapono around… A guy who was ALSO a 3 point/offensive specialist who just couldn’t play defense. He spent all this money that was freed up and didn’t have any regard for who was the best fit for this team.
In the end, I’m just tired of this kind of stuff this summer. Toronto’s reputation, Raptors fans reputations, have all taken a hit this summer. Bosh’s remarks hit home for us, BC’s own remarks sounded like a GM trying desperately to save his own reputation, and Hedo has been “all class” with his comments this summer considering how much he and his wife loved this city. It’s good riddance to a guy that we never really cared for, and time to just move on to less depressing matters
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 3, 2010 10:56 AM EDT reply actions
Further to your point...
I think you’re spot on regarding BC’s disregard for “fit”, however I truly believe the problem is deeper than that. Regarding your comment on knowing BC would target Hedo before the free agent period had even started, I had the exact same fear. I remember looking up the 2009 free agent lit after we traded for Marion, knowing the Raps would now have money to spend. As soon as I saw Hedo’s name on the list, my heart sank. For me, I felt that Hedo was a "Brian Colangelo type of player" in that he put up arguably decent offensive numbers and could shoot a jump shot (oh and was not from North America…). These are the top (if not only) pre-requisites for being a "Brian Colangelo type of player". Colangelo has a poor grasp of the value of intangible skills (defence, rebounding, drive, commitment, hustle, heart, toughness).
Yep – Vicious nailed the “fit” thing.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 4, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Schadenfreude...
Unfortunately for Raptors fans, Hedo may have landed in a good situation in Pheonix. While he probably won’t see much of the ball-handling duties that he seems to crave(what with Nash and Dragic having that under control already), he might see his offensive numbers bounce back when he gets set up for lots of easy baskets and is playing in a fast paced offense. At that point, Raptors fans will have the joy of reading in the US media that all Turk needed was a change of scenery to get himself back on track.
I had a similar thought
With Nash’s ability to make his teamates more effective, I think you are right, Hedo’s nu,bers will increase. As a result, our organization may take an unfair hit from the American media. I’m still glad he’s gone though.
Agreed.
While Amare was no defensive stalwart, it don’t get much lower than Hedo. Plus, after watching him last season, he’s absolutely a step slower (and a size fatter in the waste) than he was in Orlando so he’ll have a tough time keeping up with the Pheonix O methinks. But yes, totally agree, Pheonix will be taking a step back this season.
Nash is even more of a focus on offense than Jose is
Anybody want to set the over/under on when Hedo first complains about not getting enough touches?
I’m thinking somewhere around game 35.
I wonder what the lego master has planed
these days are certainly boring to be a raptor fan and an NBA fan I wonder if BC has any more trades planed
by raptors_run_the_show on Aug 3, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
1 thing that will change all the negative energy towards the raps is WINNING
It looks bad now but with a little luck with ping pong balls & a trade or 2 and all this stuff could be a distant memory. With some luck we draft Barnes next yr with our 1st pick & get a half decent center with our 2nd pick , trade minny for Rubio , and in a few yrs we could be a top team in the east. It could easily go the other way but my point is no matter how bad a franchise looks it can be changed with a winning season. And all this Hedo BS will be something to laugh about.
Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally
by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Aug 3, 2010 12:43 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed it's wide open
There’s still lots of potential and offense and motivation I would assume is high with all the young players… We were in a worse spot when VC left…
i have a new team i despise more then the Yankees
If the Heat never win anything they will be known as the biggest failures in sports history and besides watching Raps ball that will be my other NBA thing is to hope this team chokes every yr . Karma is not on there side and hope they are cursed just like other former Raptor allstars that never one shite after leaving. Mighty Mose , Mcgrady , VC & hopefully Bosh.
That is the worst song ever and that is just more Karma against the Miami will get Def-Heat-ed.
Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally
by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Aug 3, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The Perfect Storm
BC keep talking about the perfect storm and i really hope it turns out like the movie & there ship Sinks !!
I can see why people are sour on BC but he is still a Raptor & untill he gets fired or whatever , im gonna be on his side & any team or player that dose not have TO on the front of there Jersey is the enemy.
So F@!&* TURK & BOSH & the HEAT & Every other team & player, writer , broadcaster ETC in the League 4 talking BS about the Raps.
Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally
by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Aug 3, 2010 4:11 PM EDT reply actions
Raps future
It is time for Raptors fans to look forward and think about what comes next. Bosh was probably not the franchise player that could lead us to the NBA finals and at the same time he was our best player. He’s gone, Turk’s gone and now Jose needs to go to. We need a new identity and we can’t go back.
Defence is our new calling card. Athletism, toughness, depth and youth; those are the building blocks we need.
Trade Jose for a defensive minded young center (hard to find one I know).
The last question for the raps is how will they play. They can easily be a jump shooting team or a slashing athletic team. To me, it is the balance between these two styles that will be crucial. With Barbosa, Weems, Demar, Linas, Jack, Jose*, Andrea there are a number of shooters who can take the ball to the basket. But can they defend?
Can Davis be a force inside? Can Alabi be a diamond? Can Amir continue to improve? Can Andrea grow into his new role and what will that be? These are the questions of most interest. Turk and Bosh and BC can talk about each other all they want, but that won’t help us going forward.
Weems and Demar plan to shock the league this season with their play…come on Raptor fans, dare to dream a little and we could be in the playoff hunt in no time with a young team that is one everyone wants to play for.
Also, if the US dollar falls much lower than players may soon prefer Toronto. You never know.
Let us be honest here for one second. As much as I rag on BC for his failures during his tenure here I know in my heart he is not to blame. Let me give you analogy that fits:
Lets say you own a 1999 Neon. The car sucks. It doesn’t drive with the same pep it had when you bought it and things keep breaking down. The problem is you cannot afford a new car so what do you do? Well, you repaint it and get it detailed. The car still sucks but at least you feel better about it. You might even convince yourself that it runs better.
That is what firing BC will do. It will make us feel better about the direction of this club. The club will still have trouble running properly but the new look and smell will lead us into false hope of a better running club.
What is my point? Look around the NBA and see who the real winning teams are. Boston, LA, SA, Utah, Miami, all these teams have good to excellent ownership. Now look at the losers Golden State, Clippers, Memphis and ummmmmmmmmm the Raptors, all these teams have been bad to terrible throughout their existence. Do you think that is a coincidence? All those teams have bad ownership or have been unstable throughout the last 20 years (or 15 in Memphis and Toronto’s case). This franchise has been in the league for 15 years and has had 4 different owners. The last 5 or 6 years is the longest this team has gone with the same owner. Does anyone really believe that isn’t an issue? Hedo may have been spouting sour grapes to a certain extent but his underlying message is actually correct even if he hit it by accident. This team is a loser because of the ownership and that has bled throughout the organization from top to bottom.
Maybe I am being harsh but I am willing to make a bet with anyone in here. I will bet my paycheck for the rest of my natural life that this team will never win a championship while they are owned by the Teacher’s Pension Plan (as majority stakeholders). If you doubt me all you have to look at is their other major team to see that the same issues crop up in that organization as well. Moves are made more to sell tickets and false hope than to actually win (Phil Kessel, HST etc). GM’s are brought in with names who then seem to torpedo the team with strange moves (see above). Nothing is done the right way because ultimately the only goal of the TPP is to make money and that is really how they should be too. I do not blame the owners for wanting to make money, I blame the complete lack of dynamic ownership potential in Canada. I cannot think for the life of me of a single person (other than maybe the dude from BlackBerry) who could own those teams, have the personality needed to make them winners and the deep pockets to accept losses, in Canada. This to me is the issue. Until someone steps up and buys the team and sets the tone in the organization to be winners, this summer will be played out over and over again.
Have to disagree.
From what I know about the MLSE (which is admittedly little more than what is written in the papers, or online or ,on TV) is that they are pretty hands-off regarding the Basketball operations. They have given BC a lot of latitude to run the Raptors organization with little intervention. I believe this is due to a fan backlash from the days where Richard Peddie appeared to be overly involved during the Grunwald and Babcock eras. As far as funding, even BC said himself this summer that the board of directors assured him they are willing to enter the Luxury Tax environment for the right player(s) in the right circumstances. I agree with that approach. Go into the tax only when you are on the cusp of genuine contention. The problem is this team has never been brought to that level after the first round win against Philly in the VC era.
My fear is that, for MLSE the pendulum has now swung to far in the other direction. They are too afraid to sever ties with BC and appear meddlesome, despite his abject failure and the Franchises’ current pathetic circumstances.
Random points to add to the discussion...
MLSE could choose not to re-new Colangelo’s contract when it runs out if they feel that he has not met the objectives that they set out for him or if they feel that they can find someone who would do a better job. I’d be very surprised to see them fire him before that.
I have the same impression that during the Colangelo era MLSE has given him leeway to operate the team as he sees fit. I’d agree that is partly because they were left with egg on their face after the Babcock era, but I’d add that Colangelo came into the job with a good reputation and a relatively big name. He was supposed to increase MLSE’s credibility as a serious basketball organization. Whether he has done that is open to debate, I guess. When his contract is up next year we will find out what MLSE’s opinion is on the issue.
One last thing, going back to McG’s point, when OTPP looks at Colangelo’s performance they are going to be looking at wins/losses, but they are also going to look at the profit/loss column. His record in the former will be middling(unless a miracle happens this year), but his record in the latter may look pretty good to them. That said, they also have to make future projections and if they think the fans are sick of BC and will stop coming to games if he is retained then that will be a factor in their decision about whether to extend him or not.
Fair point regarding BC coming in with a good reputation and the need to increase MLSE’s credibility. However, if we look at the results… I mean we are again, 15 years in, having the debate with the American media if Toronto is a viable option for the NBA. That speaks volumes to me. If this conversation is still happening, its just another indication of how low the org is now, and a big part ofthe blame rests on the recent failures of BC.
I think the debate about the viability of the Raptors is overstated. MLSE has not put the team on the market and if they did there would likely be numerous bidders who would want to keep the team in Toronto. Why? For the simple reason that the team makes money. Owners like money….
As for the debate in the US media, that is mostly baloney. And the Canadian propensity to buy into it I would attribute largely to our national obsession with navel gazing and to obsessing over what Americans think of us.
Totally agree with you on all your points. It is not a debate worth having. However, here we are again, at year 15, having the debate… again. In my opinion, the fact that the BC era has been an utter failure, culminating with CB4 leaving for greener pastures, is the main reason this pointless debate has again reared its ugly head.
If that is the case then why does there seem to be so many parallels in the way the organizations are run then. MLSE definitely has input in how the teams are run and though they may not bud into day to day decisions you can bet your sweet ass that they have final say over anything major that will cost them profitability. They would be stupid not to (given their mandate).
Fair points, but here are some flaws with this argument. First of all, MLSE is not unique in their objective of profitability. We would be naïve to think any owner or ownership group has ANY other main objective. Also, it is difficult to compare a 15 year old organization with an org that has been around for more than 50 years. Have the Leafs been mismanaged? Yes. Have the Raptors? Again yes, but it is hard to extrapolate the parallels further than that. Again, as MLSE has been much more involved in the Leafs org than the Raps (as the Raps are like to poor stepsister in the family) BC really did have a lot more latitude and therefore requires more of the blame.
I’d say there is a difference between making mistakes and mis-management. Colangelo, for example, has made numerous well documented mistakes. However, the team has been competitive enough during his tenure to keep the fans engaged and the team in the black. To charge him with mis-management would be on overstatement(in my opinion). Save that description for the Harold Ballard era Leafs.
Simply not true. For some owners winning is more important than profitability. That doesn’t mean they are willing to take absurd losses only that making money is less important to them than winning is (Marc Cuban comes to mind).
Marc Cuban is an anomaly. A one of a kind owner, a dot-com billionaire and a fan. A GREAT owner, but absolutely unique. If your question is, would I rather have Marc Cuban or MLSE as the owner then of course the obvious answer is Cuban. However, MLSE is the more prevalent or “normal” type of owner in NBA basketball and professional sports for that matter. They have spen over the cap for I beleive the last 3 to 4 years and suggested they would be willing to go over the cap. That is the role of an owner, provide the resources. The problem with the Raptors, is those resources have been misused and misallocate on the Kapono’s, Barganis and Turkaglus of the world..
Sorry, made a mistake above, should read that MLSE has suggested they are willing to go over the Tax threshold. As again they were already over the cap… Haven’t had my first coffee yet…
I think it’s rather disingenuous to suggest that MLSE doesn’t want to win. They have hired arguably the two best GMs on the market when they could have, and have given them rather free reign to do whatever they want. For the most part, they seem to have been rather hands-off lately and unfortunately the results haven’t come which makes me hope this does not promote a shift in their behaviour.
For the Leafs, hiring the best staff they can, and then spending up to the hard cap is all they can do. There is no evidence that they are seriously lagging in those areas. They even have their minor league team in Toronto now which should theoretically help more than hinder.
For the Raptors, MLSE has continually put the team in the upper half of the league in payroll year after year with poor results. The luxury tax is not a cure for a poor roster unless you want to burn other peoples’ money for amusement. The one question I have is whether MLSE has ever supported Colangelo or pushed him towards a Euro-centric strategy in the hopes of entrenching themselves as Europe’s team (similarly to what Houston was able to do in China). That’s somewhat of a conspiracy theory, and I wouldn’t be pleased to find it true – I’m sure it could be quickly answered by someone with knowledge of what exposure the Raptors have ever gotten or tried to get overseas.
Bottom line is – teams have a right to make money and MLSE has been great about balancing their spending/saving. The times are changing where the league was constantly finding new revenue streams and franchise values would appreciate rapidly making operating losses somewhat irrelevant. Now, with the majority of potential revenue streams tapped and franchise values at all-time highs with slow growth, it is imperative that ownership earns a suitable profit on an investment of hundreds of millions or a rash of franchises will go up for sale.
And yet neither GM wants to do what should be obvious to both of them. Rebuild. Or at least say they are rebuilding. This is the illusion that is cast out by the org as a whole. Maybe they are allowed to rebuild but they are not allow to admit it or make it obvious even though in the Leafs case the fan base would actually tolerate a complete rebuild.
forty-three years. Not sure what that has to do with anything though. Can you elaborate on your point please.
LOL i understood that, i meant in regards to why they cannot just come out and see we are rebuilding and we have a (say) 5 year plan. Instead we get the same dribble about how competitive they will be and watch as they fall short year after year.
Raptors fans in general (ie the ticket buyers) do not have a long relationship with the team, and may not stick around to watch a rebuild. Plus, the Raps have had some moderate success of late. The Leafs had missed the playoffs for, what, 5 straight years when the ‘rebuilding’ plan was initiated?
And I believe Leafs fans were only so enthusiastic about that because they are so desperate for eventual success that they will try anything – and 43 years is a long time to wait for a Stanley Cup victory.
by dhackett1565 on Aug 5, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
After the lockout there was no rebuild which is why I bailed on the team. They said from the get go they thought they were a playoff team and then proceeded to miss the playoffs since. As for the fans, that was my point. MLSE could sell a rebuild for the leafs easily but instead they continue to sell false hope each year (probably for advertising reasons).
The Leafs are rebuilding now. No doubt about it. And maybe the Raps should too, but I think there does have to be a lot of push from the fans for this to happen (so that management can be sure that fans will watch a rebuild), and I don’t think the push is there now. Maybe from some hardcores, but not from the masses. The masses want to win now, and the masses buy tickets.
by dhackett1565 on Aug 5, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Rebuild in TO
I think GMs don’t get to rebuild in Toronto because the organization is scared that “casual” fans won’t support a rebuilding(aka losing) team.
We were in a rebuild when Colangelo got here, the rebuild was just too surprisingly successful initially. 4 years later he is fighting for his reputation. I do see that MLSE may be motivated by money as Colangelo has actually managed to erode the team’s attendance level during his tenure. But after nearly 10 years of on/off rebuilding I think they know better than to specifically order Bryan to waste all of their money on average players and allow him to outspend his tenure. I think Bryan has done these moves on his own and management has remained hands-off on the operation the entire time.
Also, I don’t think it’s out of character for Burke to attempt to shortcut his way to the top. Don’t you think he seems just a little self-confident whenever he speaks? Despite getting fleeced for Kessel…
I am not even a Leafs fan anymore because I got tired of the BS. Burke’s should have been raped in the press for that trade when he made it but I am not even sure how much criticism he took(maybe someone else can remind me). It is, however, exactly the kind of move that creates buzz. “look, out GM traded 2 first round picks for this guy, so he must be good, I want to go see him play”.
Oh, my. This is why I try not to think like you McG.
No matter what happens, I’ll be a Raptors fan, and a Leafs fan (although a casual one), for the rest of my life. Maybe I’m a fool – but maybe I’m just loyal. I might not like what the management does at any given point, but I will always cheer for the team, no matter how much crap we have to go through. Bandwagoning goes both ways, you know.
by dhackett1565 on Aug 5, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude, I had been a leaf fan for almost 30 years at that point and it just became obvious to me that they blew a great opportunity to start from scratch. After the lockout there was a 2 week window where teams could buy out all the contracts they wanted to and not have it impact the cap. The Leafs bought out Owen Nolan and that is it because they said they believed the team was a playoff contender. Mid way through the season when it became evident that wasn’t the case I had enough. If they had simply bought out half the team (McCabe comes to mind) and said okay we are starting from scratch, I would still be following that team.
Okay, your reasons are your reasons. Just doesn’t compute with me. 30 years, and you bail? Well, to each his own.
by dhackett1565 on Aug 5, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to turn this into a discussion about the Leafs, but they consistently were one of the biggest spenders in the NHL for a decade or more leading up the lockout. Their biggest problem coming out of the lockout was that their payroll was still structured for the pre-lockout NHL. In the 90s and early 2000s the Leafs consistently went out and offered big contracts to free agents on a yearly basis in order to keep the team competitive. This was partially because their drafting and player development wasn’t great, but mostly because MLSE let them spend what they wanted. As I believe both dhackett and McG mentioned, playoffs=big jump in revenue. The Leafs at the time knew they would get back whatever they spent on FAs. When the hard cap came in all the Tie Domis, Darcy Tuckers, etc were overpaid relative to their production and like the post-Vince Raptors it has taken a few years to cleanse the system. Now the Leafs are starting from scratch with guys like Kadri and Schenn(the equivalents of Bosh, I guess). Having never lived in Toronto I am a bit of a Leafs hater, so I have enjoyed their years of suffering, but I am sure others don’t share that sentitment. Burke’s trading top picks for Kessell probably won’t help, but some of his other moves have been solid. Anyway, enough with the digression, bottom line is that when given the chance(ie no hard cap) MLSE was willing to splash the cash for the Leafs.
I think you are forgetting that OTPF has only been a majority owner of MLSE for a few years (I think it was like 2003 or something). Prior to that the leafs were owned by Steve Stavro.
I think you hit the nail on the head! As a teacher, I want the TPP to do whatever it takes to ensure my long term security…but what the TPP don’t realize is that by spending the extra dough and bringing in championship pieces (exceeding the tax) and becoming a legit playoff team the added revenue and marketability of the team in North America would far exceed what they make now. For example, if you just consider how much more they can make each game by selling 19,000 tickets per game instead of 17,000. Once upon a time you saw VC jerseys being worn during away games. VC was the leading vote getter among all NBA stars and he was representing a “foreign” jersey. I don’t see how these idiots can be so short-sighted. By spending an extra say $20 million a year (going over luxury tax) can potentially make that money back in one or two playoff series. Forget the extra seats that they will sell during the regular season and increase in jersey sales of said star(s). I know I am simplifying it a bit, but I do have a 2 year old hanging off my arm as I write what seems like a very incoherent paragraph :)
I think it goes much deeper than that. I believe that the issue of American players being afraid to come here could be easily addressed by the Raptors selling time cheaply to an American carrier or even buying that time themselves (like the NBA once did). Exposing our team, city and country to Americans as whole would only enhance our standing in the league and could even eventually lead to better recruitment opportunities. Of course, it is possible that the NBA might discourage that kind of radical thinking but I think they should do whatever it takes to place themselves on US TV as much as possible.
Which goes back to your original post. The Raptors as an organization are too short-sighted to see the bigger picture. Buying that time themselves is a great way to expose the US to their product. I’m afraid that the money bags at MLSE don’t want to dip into their pockets in order to bring that type of exposure, which longterm would up their profits !
by Assistant GM on Aug 4, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Buying time on Versus is silly and the ratings would be terrible.
Noone in the USA wants to watch Toronto Raptors basketball besides diehards – and only occassionally as there will be many interesting teams besides the Raptors. If they really do, they will have “league pass” or just pirate it off of the internet/watch NBA.com’s highlights.
It’s like suggesting the Atlanta Thrashers or Florida Panthers putting all of their games on TSN2 (or TSN3 if it existed). Even if they did have the increased potential exposure, nobody would want to watch bottom feeders from a city far away.
Which is the point. Exposure creates fans. How many Torontonians are Canadiens fans or Bruins fans etc? A lot. Why? Because they get TV time so growing up kids see those teams play. Remember what the goal of getting the Raptors onto US TV isn’t to make money but increase their exposure in the US market in the only way possible. Just writing it off and saying the ratings would be terrible is short sighted as who knows what people will watch if given a chance. It is working for Soccer here in NA as getting games on Satellite has increased their brand recognition in the US and Canada.
This would be some creative thinking on the Raptors part if they did it. I don’t know if it would work, but it would be an interesting experiment. They could start with markets like Buffalo and Rochester. They are small enough to be not too expensive and close enough to Toronto that fans could realistically go to a game once in a while(if they have a passport).
When I was a kid(1980s) my friends and I followed the Sonics because they were the closest team to Victoria(where I lived at the time) and their games were on the Seattle stations that we received. Times have changed since then as bigweeze mentioned and with the Internet this kind of strategy might not be as effective.
I could get on board with trying to put the Raptors on US TV within the region where locals don’t identify with the Knicks. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if it were already being done.
But the suggestion that the Raptors put their games on in primetime on a national cable channel when people can watch their better, local teams is absolutely silly and a money pit. Noone will be watching, therefore the ad revenue will drop and MLSE will be paying out the nose for absolutely nothing. I actually don’t think Versus would do it either – it would make their channel a laughingstock and undesirable.
And isn’t the point of this all to increase exposure to get American basketball players to Toronto? How does this accomplish it at all? It is a long-term, expensive, round-about way of taking a shot in the dark (maybe increasing general player interest in joining the Raptors). Noone in their right mind would do this if they actually had to use their own money on it.
Nobody said anything about Primetime. I was refering to say the Raptor Sunday noon time games. It is a perfect time as no one else is playing and everyone is looking to kill some time before football starts or they go out for the day. Even if you only got them for that one hour, it might be enough to get a few younger fans.
As for your second point, didn’t Bosh say one of his concerns when he came up here was that his family couldn’t watch him play on TV?
I think you take it too literally. The Raptors being on TV sporadically in meaningless games with limited exposure is not what he wanted – VS. is just not a popular channel yet.
He wanted to be on big games on TNT with buzz that he could be excited about and have his friends/family watch. It’s about being recognized for your efforts in your home country, something he was never really able to get continually while here on a losing team. I doubt TNT ever really talked about Bosh in anything more than passing or in relation to something else. The Rupaul comment might have been the biggest noise that was ever made about “the Bosh name” in the USA.
I think that is what he wanted when he left not when he came here. When he came here he just wanted his family to be able to see his games period. Not a lot of rookies come into the league expecting primetime minutes.
So you think that Bosh would have stayed had the Raptors been on an obscure cable sports channel for the past 7 years?
No because he left to play with LB and DW as well as the lack of general respect he got from the American media. The media issue could have been reduced however if Raptor games were on TV in the US. It is one thing to criticize a player you never see play but a lot harder to do if you can watch him play 20 times a year. All I am saying is that it wouldn’t hurt to try. I just do not understand why you are so against trying to increase the Raptors exposure in the US by any means necessary.
There are plenty of things which are good ideas but do not have the priority of “by any means necessary”.
This specific idea is impractical, unlikely to succeed and probably undoable given that it is something the NBA would probably not support.
Impactful US exposure can be accomplished far more cheaply and effectively by building a good team that “gets” on national television (which is free).
As I stated below though in order to get a good team you have to draw players and you can’t draw players if you don’t have a good team. We have seen this cycle twice now with this franchise, once with Wince and once with Bosh. It is not just a matter of putting together a winning program as much as it is putting together a sustainable winning program.
Ultimately, the past 3 or 4 years prove that you need stars to draw stars (LA, Boston, Miami) and if you can’t keep your stars you will end up like the Clevelands, Clippers etc of the league. I have no idea whether televising games would help but I know it can’t hurt.
Lets just agree to disagree.
You know how the Raptors will get on US TV? By having a good team that creates a compelling matchup that draws viewers. The Raptors for the short-term and medium-term have nothing compelling about them that will make anyone want to watch. Who is going to want to watch Amir Johnson over Kevin Durant?
Look at the early schedule and how interesting the games are:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/18714/breaking-down-the-nbas-teaser-schedule
Miami at Boston
Houston at Los Angeles Lakers
Chicago at Oklahoma City
Portland at Los Angeles Clippers
Washington at Orlando
Phoenix at Utah
Orlando at Miami
Los Angeles Lakers at Phoenix
Denver at Houston
Utah at Oklahoma City
Portland at Chicago
Sadly, the Raptors are uninteresting from a league-wide perspective – there is nothing to talk about other than a youth movement that has no player standing head and shoulders above the rest. Even the Bucks are more interesting considering they have an interesting character like Jennings and had a surprisingly successful season last year that ended without Bogut.
As for your soccer argument – soccer is not established so naturally they would have more viewers than before, however – I doubt the ratings are good either. Are people in the USA begging and pleading to watch Toronto FC? Hardly. I am actually surprised they would watch MLS at all if European games are available. High level soccer is boring enough, watching MLS is basically like watching children play.
I like basketball. But I do not want to watch the Minnesota Timberwolves. Americans who like basketball will not want to watch the Minnesota Timberwolves of Canada. As I said before, there are outlets for people who do, but it is extremely unlikely that future NBA stars will be glued to a CABLE CHANNEL hoping to get a glimpse of Demar Derozan and one day become future Raptors like him. At best you will get the 40-yr old couch potatoes.
When I mentioned soccer I meant the English Premiership league not MLS.
I would watch the Timberwolves if they played Saturday at noon. There is nothing else on and I am big enough fan of basketball I would tune in just to see some ball (especially since I am not a huge fan of college basketball).
English Premiership is mainly filling a void for transplants to North America. Soccer is just not popular in America. These are not random people watching whatever comes on the screen – these are soccer fans seeking out a soccer outlet.
Raptors had two noon games and two 12:30 games all season, rest were 1:00 and onward.
The point about you wanting to watch the T-Wolves is irrelevant – we are not recruiting adult basketball fans. You were trying to get the future stars of the NBA to watch the Raptors. So, on a sunday at noon do you expect this limited pool of people to watch and then want to come play for us? Even if they did, which I am skeptical, it will not help by showing them the massive leads we are able to blow 2-4 times per year. I am not sure how to word this better…
Sigh, I just do not understand why you are so opposed to the notion of having games played in the US. It’s not you are footing the bill here. Any exposure can only be positive in the long term.
No I do not think that every kid who sees the Raptors play will want to play for them but it might open a few minds up enough so they are not at least opposed to the idea outright.
English PL soccer has picked up a lot of fans in North America because the games are being carried here. It isn’t number 1 by any stretch but I believe it outdraws hockey audiences in most US markets (I could be wrong but I remember reading that hockey is way down the list for viewership).
EPL might be a slightly flawed example because it is a higher level of soccer than what is on offer in North America. I’d love for TFC to be at the same level as say Arsenal, but I’d be surprised if they could even beat relegation fodder like Blackpool. I’d love it even more if the Raptors were the Manchester United of the NBA, but I don’t see that being the case any time soon.
That is not to say your proposal is unviable, just that EPL is a different kettle of fish. However, I think that local fans would indirectly be paying the bill for such a strategy. If the broadcasts lost money then who covers those losses, presumably the fans who buy tickets, popcorn, etc at the ACC.
The argument that “it’s someone else’s money” is stupid. We may as well go into the luxury tax then.
The EPL is on in North America because they are filling a need – demand from transplant fans. Similarly, I’m sure the NFL shows games in Europe.
Noone is calling for the #25 team in the NBA to be on national TV on a semi-regular basis. And again, it is already available through other means.
So you are saying there are millions of ex brits in the US and Canada and they are driving the numbers for soccer, not all the fans who started watching it because it was available on TV? It may have started with ex-pats but those numbers are unsustainable (just ask how hockey does in Florida). Exposure helped increase the interest in the sport.
Going into the luxury tax with the team currently constructed is pointless at this stage isn’t it? Right now we are trapped in a chicken and egg situation where in order to build fans outside of Toronto we have to win, to win we have to draw players, to draw players we need to increase our exposure and improve our image, to do those things we need to win. Ta Da. At least I am trying to come up with solutions outside the circle. You may not think the idea will work and I know it is a strong possibility that it won’t but outside of money there is no harm and if OTPF was not concerned with bottom line maybe they would start trying to do some things outside the box.
I am not saying that there are zero Americans who enjoy soccer. But Americans as a whole do not enjoy soccer, and their recent success in the World Cup was a blip that will not drive any major change. This is a country that still largely ignores soccer despite having HOSTED a World Cup.
The way to win is not to simply sign FAs. This has not historically been the way and will not ever be the way to build a good team for at least 90% of the league. I’m not against outside the box thinking so much as I am for exhibiting strong fundamentals. But if you as an organization don’t have a strong foundation, a strategy dependent on impressing by exhibiting your franchise’s strength (or lack thereof) is bound to fail.
Calendar Question
When are the Suns coming to T.O. next year? Personally, I hope Raptors fans come out and boo Turkoglu for the entire game in a way that makes how Jays fans received Burnett look like the Toronto Welcome Wagon. Dude is just a huge schmuck.
On the other hand, Bosh deserves a nice reception. He played to his abilities while here, contributed to the city and treated Toronto, the Raptors and its fans respectfully. He deserves the same in turn.
Big deal Bosh left for an opportunity in a situation that could impact the NBA on historic proportion. Good luck to him, Wade and James.
But Turkoglu and his Turkoflu, shabby play and smack talk deserves an inhospitable welcome of epic size. Circle the date on the calendar Tukoglu, we await your return.
A little practice chant “Hedo sucks, Hedo sucks, Hedo sucks”. Yea, that sounds good.
REBUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT IS THE ONLY CHANCE THE RAPS HAVE
Toronto Raptors are not going to attract the type of players we need to compete for a championship.Wade & Lebron are not going to sign with the raps , but we do have a chance of drafting them , & keeping them for yrs with the rookie contract. If this team is truly never going to go in rebuild mode then we are never going to win , period. Most of the allstar talent weve had over the yrs have been from the draft or trade, None of them have signed here. And the only way we have a chance of signing those type of players is to draft a superstar , compete & win games then player will come if they have a chance to win & collect pay cheques. Anyway my point is if we dont finish @ the bottom for a few yrs in a row & have some luck drafting were always gonna be finishing 9th and getting kicked out of the 1st round.
I know im stating the obvious but i just hope that our management knows this and is just blowing a lil smoke to keep fans in the seats, If not MEDIOCRE is in the Raps future.
Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally
by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Aug 5, 2010 1:48 PM EDT reply actions
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