Sunday Thought - Would a TJ Ford-Jarrett Jack Combo Work in Toronto?
by Adam Francis on Aug 15, 2010 8:59 AM EDT
Email
PrintRecently, rumours have been flying around Raptorland that former point guard TJ Ford could return via a trade involving none other than his former point-guard mate, Jose Calderon. The HQ has to ask, if this happens, is there any foreseeable way that it could work?
This past Thursday, a blockbuster deal went down in the league that saw four teams exchange players. The Rockets, only a year removed from making Trevor Ariza their big free-agent acquisition, moved him to the Hornets, who in turn sent James Posey and Darren Collison to Indiana, who then in turn sent Troy Murphy to New Jersey, with the Nets finally completing the four-team-swap by sending Courtney Lee to Houston.
However NBA.com's David Aldridge reported that the deal could have been even bigger, with Charlotte looking to move newly acquired center (and expiring contract) Eric Dampier to Indiana in exchange for TJ Ford. Ford would have then made his way back to Toronto with Jose Calderon going to Charlotte.
And while that move didn't happen, it sounds like this other 3-way deal could still go down and as a result, Raptors' fans would have to re-welcome Mr. Ford.
I've been pondering this possibility the past few days and decided to write a quick blurb on it as one of our reoccurring "Sunday Thoughts."
Would I approve of such a move? Well...it's tough to say.
I get it, Ford's contract expires after this season so yes, it would be a huge opportunity to cut costs for Toronto.
Financial costs however.
Would it "cost" the team more in the long run to bring in a malcontent like Ford, a player that was already shipped out of town once? We're talking about a young and impressionable team here, one that certainly doesn't need a player who will be anything but happy if he's not starting (witness the chaos last year in Indiana regarding his role) and even if he does start, is not exactly the type of leader you want for your youngsters. Jarrett Jack has already taken on the "cool Uncle" role for the likes of Weems, DeRozan and Johnson and I'd like to see that continue.
And even outside of personality fits, what about Jack and Ford sharing the point guard duties? Many forget, but these two did this in Indiana during the 2008-09 season.
Did it work?
Well...it was ok.
The following table based on stats from 82games.com looks at how successful 5-man line-ups were with Ford and Jack on the court together:
| eFG | eFGA | FTA | Close | dClose | Reb | T/O | Def | Win% |
| 0.5 | 0.484 | -28 | 37% | 34% | 53.50% | -2% | 1.07 | 56% |
| 0.523 | 0.47 | -23 | 31% | 27% | 53% | -1% | 1.05 | 56% |
| 0.487 | 0.497 | -27 | 40% | 30% | 52% | -2% | 1.09 | 33% |
| 0.549 | 0.522 | 15 | 29% | 20% | 54.50% | 1% | 1.10 | 63% |
| 0.482 | 0.455 | -13 | 32% | 29% | 47% | 1% | 1.13 | 47% |
| 0.598 | 0.515 | -23 | 38% | 46% | 46.50% | 4% | 1.23 | 54% |
| 0.47 | 0.602 | 17 | 23% | 39% | 40% | 9% | 1.19 | 33% |
| 0.515 | 0.495 | -21 | 40% | 33% | 52% | -6% | 1.18 | 46% |
| 0.457 | 0.488 | -15 | 28% | 31% | 52.50% | -3% | 1.11 | 58% |
| 0.512 | 0.416 | -16 | 34% | 27% | 44.50% | 10% | 1.00 | 50% |
| 0.5093 | 0.4944 | -13.4 | 33% | 32% | 50% | 1% | 1.12 | 50% |
(Click here for a full description of the table headings.)
As you can see, the line-ups with the two were on average decent.
They were leading 50% of the time, they did a good job retaining possession, and had a slightly better effective field goal percentage than their opponent.
However the defensive stats aren't great as line-ups that included these two gave up over a point a possession on average and offensively the team was poor at getting to the line.
Of course Ford and Jack are only two-fifths of the equation in this line-up so it's a bit tough to judge how effective the two were together based solely on this.
More importantly, does Ford provide any real upgrade over Jose if he were to return, or over Jack for that matter, in terms of point guard play? You could argue that TJ's defence would be a boost in Jose's absence, but that piece would probably be negated by Ford's poor shooting.
For me, the benefit of bringing Ford back comes down to style of play. When Jack and Ford manned the 1 in Indiana two seasons ago, the club played at the third fastest pace in the league. Contrary to previous years, the team now has the horses to play this style and is arguably better suited to do so.
I'm not sure that in itself is enough to bring back a possible PR and on-court "fit" problem like Ford, but the argument could be made that there is some benefit there in making the aforementioned swap.
And in reality, a move like this would come down to the same thing that the majority of transactions come down to in this era of the NBA.
The money.
30 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Interesting
I would love to see TJ, Leandro, Weems/Wright screaming down the court, Amir crashing the rim for ORB and Bargnani trailing for the kickout three. Ford would be interesting in the ‘style of play’ catagory.
Walker McKenna
by Robert Archibald on Aug 15, 2010 9:41 AM EDT reply actions
Even without TJ I’m hoping to see this sort of style next year…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 15, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
There is something wrong
when people start considering moving Jose for TJ. Jose alraedy beat him out for the position once. Jack beat out TJ for the same spot a year later.
TJ is a malcontent. He has had issues every where he has gone, and at the very least squabbled with both our existing PGs. Injury prone (and major injuries at that). He is not the player he used to be.
Even considering this is ridiculous. I have been supportive of BC to some extent to date (while have not agreed with alot of moves, I atleast understood them)… this one would be absolutely retarded. This would unquestionable make the team worse.
I can’t imagine for a minute it would happen. Jose is a much better ‘fit’ for any and every team in the league than TJ (with the exception of teams looking to tank).
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 15, 2010 9:44 AM EDT reply actions
You and I usually do not agree but I agree with you that this move is unlikely to happen. Not only is Ford a malcontent but he couldn’t even hold down the starting job on team that had no other point guards good enough to consider starters (which is why they went out and got Collison). If they do this trade, the only way I think it works is if the Raptors buy Ford out and sign another PG to back up Jack (Earl Watson is still available I believe).
Charlotte couldn’t be part of this deal now unless the Raps take on more salary (Dampier’s deal is about $13M) and the ‘Cats would have to do the same. Plus I don’t think Dampier can be moved in combination with other players according to the CBA.
So really, it would be a high-risk move in my books regardless of the salary benefit associated with the move.
Besides, if the team tanks this year and BC gets canned…then it’s an even bigger price to pay considering he won’t be around to deal with the aftermath of “TJ Ford influenced young-ins.”
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 15, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
TJ would have to back up Jack
… and in a contract year he better do it with a smile on his face and 100% effort on the floor. The he and a few other contracts expire adding to our caproom next offseason. Not great I know, and I agree that this club probably more than ever needs Jose, but it might be fun to watch.
Walker McKenna
by Robert Archibald on Aug 15, 2010 9:51 AM EDT reply actions
You know what the 2010/11 Raptors need?
More bench-quality players. To hell with the starters. You can never have enough bench guys!
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 15, 2010 11:03 AM EDT reply actions
i would hate to do charlotte a favor
they screwed us. so i say hell no to this trade. its tj were talking about people. his contract may be expiring but he will bring chaos to this young team, always wanting to be the man at point. if charlotte really wants jose (which they should have done with the proposed chandler deal) then they should find another way for the raptors to get a better player in return. ask pacers to give up someone else or look for another team to deal with.
also just wanted to know, since indiana is out of pf’s after trading away troy, would you guys still deal ed davis for paul george?
That is one thing I was thinking to
that if Charlotte wants anything from the Raps/BC they better be willing to pay a hefty price after the fiasco they made.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 15, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Now there’s an interesting question.
I would…but that’s because I’m a big George fan and not as big on Davis. That said I like Davis, and I don’t think Indy has any plans on moving him any time soon.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 15, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Ford
I’d take him back for one year, and any trade we make at this point with Calderon involved probably won’t bring back a better PG. For only 1 yr and the financial flexibility the moves brings, I’d do it in a heart beat. Plus i think he’s a good point guard as far as basketball goes but his “head” doesn’t seem to be in the right place always. As purely a ball player tho, he’s equally or better than both Jack and Calderon.
TJ for Jose
The trade makes sense for Raps. It may not make us a better team but it gives us two things we really need; 1. less money tied up in backup point guard 2. a backup pg who can play fast and play D.
Jose cannot play fast and he cannot play D. He is great in the halfcourt set. An ideal point guard for Orlando or the Lakers because of the skill set he brings and how the length in the middle can bail him out on D. Then on O he would be brilliant. But Raps can’t let the PG penetrate at will therefore they can’t afford to have Jose. Especially when they want to be athletic and defensive minded. Jose is the opposite, though he would be a great fit for a few teams.
I’d rather see Jose go for a good centre, but that seems unlikely with so few left. I would love to see Gortat for Jose but I guess Orlando isn’t interested. It’s a shame because I think he’s a perfect fit and would make Howard very happy because he’s a much better passer than Nelson and he’s as good or better shooter as well. They could play Jose for O and Jameer for D and they could platoon a bit. Without Hedo, the Magic need a pass first playmaker and Jose is a big upgrade from Jameer.
Then you rely a little bit on Banks, but he proved to me last year that he is capable. Plus, the idea should be to build a team and it is clear that Jose is not in the future plans. Gortat or some other player could be. Plus Gortat has been desperate for more playing time and a bigger role so the trade would get him excited to come here and be the starter alongside Andrea. Amir is a solid backup with Davis, so our front court would be ok. It also allows Andrea to slide to the 4 and allows Kleiza to stay at the 3 full time. Sonny can back him up at the 3 and and Demar and Barbosa lock down the 2. Barbosa can also play the 1 sparingly along with Banks while Jack gets most of the minutes at the one.
Go Raps.
I'd be awfully surprised if a trade for Jose goes down
Get used to used to it, there’s no team out there who wants a backup PG at Jose’s price. Maybe Bobcats, but that’s been run thru twice… BC is stuck with him because if there was a chance of moving him, I really feel Marco wouldn’t have been traded. He easily could have become one of the backup PGs. Maybe not, but at this point, I don’t think BC can move Jose with the present lineup.
Why not just do Calderon and Evans for Dampier and some sort of pick?
by JumpShootersRUS on Aug 15, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
I did not realize that Dampier’s contract was FULLY NON-Guaranteed. He can be waived for nothing. I would take that without a pick.
by JumpShootersRUS on Aug 15, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
And sadly, Dampier could actually be useful on this team…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 15, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That may be true, but I am sure they would rather save the money.
by JumpShootersRUS on Aug 15, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
TJ back?
so, we’re going full circle. great, back to where we started, just four years older, one less Bosh, and fully fed up.
no way
Tj ford sucks. he is a locker room cancer and he is injured 24/7 why would any team want such a player
by raptors_run_the_show on Aug 15, 2010 6:16 PM EDT reply actions
NO TJ Cancer Ford.
Franchise:
You have really outdone yourself this time, this is the STUPIDEST post of the year.
TJ is done as an NBA PG, not even able to get off the bench as a back-up PG.
Colangelo has no intention of trading Calderon unless he can get someone back for a good cost, not a long term expensive contract, at a position of need, who will help the team win, and would then need to find another PG who can contribute to winning, with a young inexperienced in playing together team.
HQ is just writing about the trade rumors that are circulating the net , how is this s stupid post ? Im glad Franchise wrote about it cause i wanted a bit of insight into the rumor.
Def. is a tough one cause for all we know this could be the only option to get rid of Jose contract. Id say that most teams would prob. be offering similar deals that are 3 or 4yrs left with similar money. So this could be are only option to get a expiring contract. Maybe we could just buy him out 3/4 the price, say we buy him out for 6 mil , that means we are saving 24 mil over 3 yrs. Even the 8 mill/ he is owed we would be saving 22 mill.
Then we have JJ & Banks as a back up , & bring Brown as our 3rd pg.
Then we can hopefully draft are pg of the future next yr or try and pry Rubio away from Minny. Cause the rumors going around are that Rubio wants to play in the TDOT & im sure MAURIZIO has talked to Rubio behind the scenes,
Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally
by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Aug 16, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
You think Jose will take an 8 million dollar buyout when he is owed 30 million? You’re nuts.
by dhackett1565 on Aug 16, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I Meant if we make the trade for TJ , Buyout TJ remaining yr @ 8mil.
Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally
by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Aug 16, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
If we made the trade for TJ expiring contract , we will be trading Jose 30 mill remaining for TJ’S 8 mill. then we buyout TJ @ 8 mill or hopefully a lil lesser then we will be saving 22 mill , that’s what i meant.
That would be the best case , instead of having tj camcer the young players.
Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally
by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Aug 16, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes… my mistake. Misread your post.
Is that all you really want out of Jose as a trade chip though? He may have a chunky contract, but his is the largest on the team, and having the largest contract on the team be <10M is not really a financial burden. Especially with 15+ million in expiring contracts. The Raptors are (and should be) looking for talent coming back in a trade, or at the very least, some youth/picks to go along with the desired cap room.
by dhackett1565 on Aug 16, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess i was looking @ worst case scenario , if we can make a trade like BC almost did with Charlotte im all for it but i have a feeling that all teams are going to be offering is similar contracts for there overpaid players. If that’s the case and BC really wants to get rid of Jose contract then id rather get an expiring then get stuck with another bad long term contract.
Acronym for RAPTORS = RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally
by RapsAreProbThinknOfRebuildingSeasonally on Aug 16, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Well look. It’s not like he’s advocating it. It’s more like Franchise is just trying to understand it.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 16, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Woah Johnn19 – isn’t this a bit akin to “shooting the messenger?” I didn’t make up the idea of TJ returning, various NBA sources were reporting it, so it bore taking a look at – not that I like the idea at all.
And unfortunately, getting TJ back fits many of the criteria you listed above; “not a long term expensive contract, and at a position of need.”
Whether or not Ford is still an “NBA player” is up for debate and really, since he IS still in the league, that comes down to your opinion of him as a player. I don’t want to see him back in a Raptors’ uniform, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a possibility and shouldn’t be examined.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Aug 16, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
TJ's defense would be boost????
C’mon now. We all now Jose has his defensive deficiencies, but Ford isn’t any better. I’m pretty sure I could post TJ Ford up. And for someone with his speed he doesn’t do well against the quick pgs either.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
