Defending Lebron
So, the smoke has settled on the biggest free agent decision in the history of the NBA. Love it or hate it, Lebron James is now a member of the Miami Heat, and most people, especially those in the media, seem to hate it. There were so many elements to his decision and the way he decided to announce it. How will it affect the landscape of the NBA? Was the one hour TV special the right way to break the news? Should loyalty exist in sports? Let’s take a look at these questions and try to provide a little bit of clarity.
Loyalty in sports
Before I get into my thoughts on the TV special and the decision’s impact on the NBA, let’s take a look at loyalty, or Lebron’s lack thereof according to some. Loyalty in sports is over rated. Why should an athlete have to be loyal to a city and team? Because he was drafted by them and the fans show up and cheer? Does that mean he should be stuck there for his entire career? I don’t think so. Calling Lebron disloyal is unfair. It’s not Lebron’s fault that he was drafted by the Cavs, but it is the Cavs fault for not building a good enough team around him. The fans should blame the Cavs organization, not Lebron. Lebron did more for the Cavs than the Cavs did for Lebron, plain and simple.
When an ordinary person leaves their job for a much better opportunity, they’re called anything but disloyal. I realize that Lebron leaving the Cavs for the Heat is much more different than an ordinary person leaving Burger King for a gig at Applebee’s, but what about other people who make a living in the entertainment industry? Steve Carrell for example, recently announced that he’ll be leaving the hit TV show ‘The Office’ to spend more time with his family and to concentrate on making movies. If you think about it, this isn’t much different from Lebron’s situation. Carrell is leaving for a better opportunity, but as a result The Office will suffer tremendously without him and sooner than later the series will come end because it’s most popular character is no longer there. As a result, the millions of the fans that the show has will be disappointed that one of their favorite shows is off the air. Why aren’t people accusing Carrell of being disloyal? You could strongly argue that The Office made his career, therefore he should stick it out and be loyal to the show’s creators and to NBC. In no way did the Cavs make Lebron. It’s not like he got his big break with them, like Carrell did on The Office, so why is one strongly accused of being a disloyal backstabber while the other is wished good luck and given a pat on the back?
The bottom line is that professional athlete’s owe nothing to no one except themselves, their families and the people who helped get them where they are. There’s of course cases like a Gilbert Arenas or Michael Vick, who’s teams are taking a risk and giving them a chance, but this isn’t the case for Lebron. He simply wants to be better, and that wasn’t going to happen with the Cavs.
To read the more of my thoughts on Lebron's decision, please visit - http://whatupsports.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/defending-lebron/
92 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Cleveland was lucky to have secured Lebron’s rights in the first place, with the best chance at only 25% to land Lebron (a bottom seed had yet to win the lottery to that point).
After providing nearly 7 years of the best basketball Cleveland has ever seen, Lebron was set to become a free agent. This, combined with Lebron averaging 29.1 pts, 9.4 reb, 7.6 ast with a 55.0 efg% somehow set off rumblings from insecure fans that he had “quit” on the Cavs (presumably to eliminate the possibility of having to stay on the defending champs in Cleveland).
This is not to say they shouldn’t be disappointed that he is leaving, but they should be thankful for the time he was there, instead of burning his jersey and trashing him for wanting to find a better situation. It would have been admirable had he stayed, but I don’t imagine he would want to stick around and have regrets after he’s out of his prime and unable to really push for those titles. Besides, the door is still open for a return to Cleveland as he should still have a good 5 years left in him after his current contract is up.
I thought Dan Gilbert’s trashing of Lebron was absolutely disgusting. After single-handedly turning around the team’s performance and making the Cavaliers a must-have ticket, along with getting the Cavs on national TV regularly, Dan Gilbert finds it fit to hurl insults from atop a pile of money (picture Scrooge McDuck). Now, I have no problem with him earning plenty of money off of the back of Lebron. But once he’s earned free agency, Lebron is free. Free to provide his services to whichever team he chooses, for whatever reason he chooses.
The funny thing is that Gilbert loathed Lebron and found him to be despicably lacking in character, but was more than willing to pay him a massive amount of money to remain the face of his franchise well into the next decade. But once Lebron was no longer a Cav and the truckloads of cash were sure to stop backing up to his door, Gilbert turned on him. I think that displays more about Gilbert’s character than Lebron – he doesn’t care about you, he cares about what you can do for him. Maybe that’s part of the reason why he had such a poor relationship with Lebron, who to me has always seemed to be relatively humble for his stature as the soon-to-be best or best basketball player on the planet. I excuse Gilbert from his comments only from the perspective that he likely just lost a couple hundred million dollars over the course of Lebron’s contract. Still, Gilbert was able to bank plenty of money from the time Lebron was around, and the business is surely more sound than it was before Lebron arrived.
The other side of it is the owner/slave interplay in pro sport, with management always looking forward to finding the next big athlete to control and do the heavy lifting. But from that perspective, especially when a free agent, the player should absolutely use that freedom/leverage to seek out what he wants most. And you’re talking about a guy who turned down multiple opportunities to be “the man” in a city that could have best served his global financial interests for frendship and to rejoin ex-teammates.
Cleveland was lucky to have secured Lebron’s rights in the first place, with the best chance at only 25% to land Lebron
actually…they tied for the worst record so it was 22.5%…
After providing nearly 7 years of the best basketball Cleveland has ever seen
You obviously were too young or just not aware to remember the cavs in the 90s. They had one of the best teams in the east but always lost to the bulls. They never had a player like lebron but they quite possibly had better teams than they did with lebron and they were just as entertaining
that he had "quit" on the Cavs (presumably to eliminate the possibility of having to stay on the defending champs in Cleveland).
so its just a coincidence that one of his worst playoff series’ came during his last year with the cavs and it just happened to give him a more legitimate excuse to leave.
but they should be thankful for the time he was there, instead of burning his jersey and trashing him for wanting to find a better situation
no…we should be upset that the man that for 7 years said that he “didn’t want to go ring chasing” and “wanted to win a championship in cleveland first” decided to bolt at the first opportunity and do the equivalent of breaking up by text message. And its kind of condescending to say that the cavs should be thankful…like the cavs organization would be nothing without him. I hate to break it to ya, but thats just not true.
I thought Dan Gilbert’s trashing of Lebron was absolutely disgusting
Why? Oh, probably because you have only seen Lebron’s side of the story and never read Adrian Wojanarawski’s (sp) article about lebron or the one written by Lebron’s own beat writer. It shows complete disrespect from an owner that gave lebron everything he wanted including jobs for his friends.
I blame gilbert for appeasing to lebron, and he should have taken a stand, but what lebron does is absolutely disgusting. Lebron manipulated the owner with subtle threats of leaving and used that power to try to get the free agents he wanted, get his friends jobs, and in general get his way in meetings and in the organization. And after they gave the world to him, he metaphorically spat in their face. You how many times lebron contacted Gilbert between the end of the season and “the decision”? None. Gilbert tried to contact him time after time…The only contact the organization even had was their pitch to him…Other organizations had more contact with lebron than the cavs did…Do you not understand how rude of a cold shoulder that is?
But once Lebron was no longer a Cav and the truckloads of cash were sure to stop backing up to his door, Gilbert turned on him. I think that displays more about Gilbert’s character than Lebron – he doesn’t care about you, he cares about what you can do for him
It doesn’t say ANY of that. If you had understood before you wrote this, the mistreatment the cavs FO received from lebron after he was given the world, it would be much more understandable.
who to me has always seemed to be relatively humble for his stature as the soon-to-be best or best basketball player on the planet
yeah…because humble people have a 1 hour special just to announce where they will be playing basketball, receive all the ad money, and pocket most of it. Thats humble right there. You know what else is humble? Partying till 5 in the morning and taking your team out partying after you get awarded the MVP and subsequently do poorly in the playoff game the next day…Doesn’t every single humble person party till 5 in the morning? Oh yeah, humble people also call the paparazzi at 3 in the morning to take pictures of them when they arrive in Miami.
You say this whole thing reveals things about gilbert. I say this whole situation has revealed to us lebron’s true character. I guess this humble act was all a facade; because nothing he has done since the offseason has started can be considered humble.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
In response to your response:
Please excuse my gross misunderstanding of lottery percentages. Cleveland was even luckier than I gave them credit for being.
In 33 years, the Cavs had 2 EC semi-finals and 2 EC finals appearances. In 7 years with Lebron, they had 3 EC semi-finals, 1 EC finals, and 1 NBA finals appearance. So perhaps the Cavs were good in particular years, but Lebron nearly singlehandedly accomplished as much in 7 years as the Cavs had in 33 successful years before him.
On the occassion that Lebron doesn’t play lights out, the Cavs lose. So it was natural that Lebron would look bad if the Cavs got eliminated. Even if he was trying and lost, Cavs fans had that thought saved up since the previous summer, Raptor fans were locked and loaded waiting for Bosh’s play to slip too. Did he want the Cavs to lose? Let’s just say I don’t think any player grabs 19 rebounds if they’re trying to lose.
As for reading Adrian W’s response – I did read it. Days after my post. Funny how Woj came out with that after totally whiffing on the whole situation as it unfolded – he actually wrote another hit piece on Lebron before that big one too. You don’t seem to understand how slanted and assumptive that article is. Also at fault is Gilbert himself – it has been blatantly obvious around the league that the leadership in the Cavs organization was poor to begin with, and their coach/GM were both out the door this offseason. It doesn’t say much for setting the tone at the top if Gilbert was ready with that scathing letter. If you’re Lebron, why would you give time to an organization full of people you don’t respect?
“It doesn’t say any of that.” – Again, I don’t have the benefit of writing after that article. Anyway, the fact remains that Dan Gilbert was ready to hand Lebron 130 mil, and was ready to sell out for more cash despite how much trouble Lebron was for him. He’s simply trying to make himself look like the sympathetic figure. But in reality, the situation is that he’s just a user, trying to squeeze every last dollar out of Lebron. I don’t resent that – I resent that he’s trying to misrepresent himself and paint Lebron as the bad guy.
I doubt Lebron is a perfect person, anyone who has had that status since before being an adult must have picked up a few character flaws along the way. But he busted his ass for 7 years in Cleveland and look at how they treated him. He definitely should have handled leaving Cleveland in another way, but his squad must have misread how it would have been taken. I’m sure he will speak again on the subject, and express what he really meant to say (or what his newly hired PR guns tell him).
In 33 years, the Cavs had 2 EC semi-finals and 2 EC finals appearances. In 7 years with Lebron, they had 3 EC semi-finals, 1 EC finals, and 1 NBA finals appearance. So perhaps the Cavs were good in particular years, but Lebron nearly singlehandedly accomplished as much in 7 years
a couple things wrong with this.
A) the cavs of the 90s came up with most of those playoff appearances you speak of. Not only that but they made the playoffs 9 out of 11 years. I would consider that Era as much (if not more) of the glory years of the franchise as the years with Lebron.
B) there is no Michael Jordan and no Chicago bulls. There is no doubt in my mind, that the cavs during the 90s would have had as much if not more (which is highly likely) success in the playoffs than the cavs with lebron…IF there were no Bulls or Michael. Every year pretty much, the cavs lost to the bulls. They did well when facing other teams but the bulls were their Kryptonite. The bulls were an amazing team and there was no such team during the Lebron era, in fact the EC was pretty darn weak…The fact that the cavs made the finals that year was part luck, and part the fact that the EC was terribly weak.
C) you say singlehandedly but no one does anything single-handedly in the NBA. The cavs did not win 60 games by accident. if you look at the stats and take away lebron, thats still at least a 35-40 win team (also taking away shaq, and using numbers such as total points, and Win shares). The cavs without lebron, Shaq, or Z, still would have 36 wins by win shares last season. Consider that Jamison only played in about 1/3 of the season with the cavs and JJ is poised for a breakout year, this team could easily win 40 games. Lebron james has always had a decent supporting cast, that people undervalue.
On the occassion that Lebron doesn’t play lights out, the Cavs lose.
nope…Not at all. I will take ‘lights out’ to be a gamescore above 20, which isn’t even ‘lights out’ in my mind. If you just take gamescores of his that are under 20, the team is 12-4…if you take ones under 15, he is 6-1.
If you take 2008-2009, the cavs were 12-7 when under 20 and and 5-6 when under 15.
The cavs may not have the best supporting cast, but they can win when he isn’t lights out, and more often than not do.
So it was natural that Lebron would look bad if the Cavs got eliminated. Even if he was trying and lost, Cavs fans had that thought saved up since the previous summer,
not at all…so wait, now you know how cavs fans think?
If the cavs played well and lebron didn’t and they got eliminated, then he WOULD look bad. if they got eliminated like they did in the orlando series, he looks great because he STEPS UP his game and not DOWN..
Nope, the cavs didn’t think he blew it. why would they think that from the previous summer? his teammates were having a bad series so he singlehandedly carried the team through the orlando series. People had their doubts once he just blew it and gave himself an excuse to leave.
Did he want the Cavs to lose? Let’s just say I don’t think any player grabs 19 rebounds if they’re trying to lose.
this doesn’t prove he didn’t want to lose, this just proves he put up some stats to point to so he can say he tried…That it can prove, but not wanting to lose, it can’t.
You don’t seem to understand how slanted and assumptive that article is
yes, it is slanted and does make some assumptions, but the facts are not distorted. Like I said, the cavs beat writer also wrote most of the same stuff several days earlier, just without the slant and some of the assumptions. Its a piece he has been working on in parts for a few months in fact…its a great piece (and the writer’s name is Brian Windhorst).
Yes, in hindsight the cavs organizational leadership looked bad, but I didn’t hear a lot of people around the league saying that the cavs should clean house. maybe you thought that but you do not speak for all of the NBA.
It doesn’t say much for setting the tone at the top if Gilbert was ready with that scathing letter.
by ready do you mean premeditated? if so, you are wrong. that letter was a heat of the moment thing most likely and there is no evidence he just had this lying around. if he did, he would have at least though enough to use a better font.
You got right to my point. lebron didn’t respect the organization and didn’t give them an ounce of respect. They did everything for him including give his friends jobs. They did everything to earn his respect, but the fact of the matter is, that his mind was made up long ago.
He’s simply trying to make himself look like the sympathetic figure. But in reality, the situation is that he’s just a user, trying to squeeze every last dollar out of Lebron. I don’t resent that – I resent that he’s trying to misrepresent himself and paint Lebron as the bad guy.
Yes, he is trying to make himself out to be the sympathetic figure, but you are also painting him to be an evil scrooge that was merely upset that one of the pieces in his puzzle for world domination was gone. He may not be the most sympathetic character, but he is far from what you are painting him to be, and honestly, he is closer to sympathetic than your scenario because yours is the complete other side of the spectrum (but maybe even more extreme).
Lebron has been misrepresenting himself for years. He tried to represent himself as this person who was like michael and wanted to stay on one team for his whole career. He has been quoted countless times saying things along the lines of him wanting win a championship with the cavs and not leaving till he did this. Now he leaves when the team is still close, how is that NOT misrepresenting yourself.
He may not be a “bad guy” but he definitely has not handled this situation great and in the process has shown the basketall world the ‘real lebron’ that he restrained. Lebron has always been in the limelight and developed great skills and portraying himself a certain way with the media. Did you know that after he signed with Miami, he called the papparazzi at 3am just to meet him at the airport so they could photograph him? yeah, the only people who do that are Paris hilton, the people from the Hills, and Lindsay Lohan…basically, hollywood trash. That is not at all good company when judging character.
And then with being a ‘bad guy’ we should look at how he manipulated the organization by putting out subtle hints and threats he would leave if he didn’t like the direction. Lebron had final say on free agent signings and trades pretty much. Lebron was coach, GM and player. I blame gilbert for catering to him, but that doesn’t mean lebron’s not the A$$hole who pretty much blackmailed the organization into getting his way. He could get away with anything with in the cavs organization.
Now we realize with what Windhorst and Wojo brought up, that his mind was made up at least 2 years ago and all these threats since then have been empty threats in a way about leaving because they weren’t threats anymore but what was going to happen. The cavs got Shaq and Jamison because they were guys he wanted and the cavs though they would help lebron stay, but he had already made up his mind…So he really was playing with the cavs organization and tampering with their future…
I would have loved for the cavs to get Dexter Pittman who we could (and probably would) have gotten with our draft pick, but lebron strongarmed the cavs into getting rid of their pick.
Lebron did not just give an F-U to the franchise just by having a 1 hour press conference and not returning Dan Gilbert’s phone calls since they got Jamison, it was the stuff that affected the cavs on the court. Lebron led them along and made them think he would resign with them, but then he made the announcement so late that they were handcuffed in free agency. They couldn’t sign anyone.
Its also funny how lebron for the last few years was so non-committal about his future with the cavs that they lost out on free agents such as Trevor Ariza, but then when he is in Miami, he actively recruits guys. On that subject, another way he tried to affect the cavs on the court is poaching our players.
He tried to get Jawad williams from us, a restricted free agent. In all honesty, With Bosh and Lebron at forward with Haslem and Juwuan howard off the bench, there is no room for playing time really on the Heat for Jawad…but there is time on the cavs. The only logical reason I could think of he would poach jawad is to spite the cavs b/c they could use Jawad, but he will be sitting on the bench a lot in Miami.
Add on to all of this, that lebron, like i said earlier, used threats to get player that he wanted and wanted the cavs to give up their future. He wanted the Amare Stoudemire deal. The thing is, when you look at it, this was the worst F*%$ you to the cavs in trying to screw over the team. Amare would only resign with the cavs if they did well and lebron stayed. As it has been revealed, lebron’s decision was predetermined, so this trading deadline, he knew he would leave. The trade would have been giving up Z, our first rounder, and JJ Hickson. Hickson had a goodsecond half of the season so I am glad we didn’t give him up and he is an excellent young player. Looking back, I would be devastated now, knowing what I know, if the cavs gave up JJ AND a first rounder…plus I heard we also needed to give up Varejao to make that deal happen. There is no way, if lebron gets the cavs to make that deal (with Andy in it), they don’t finish in last place…the only reason we will have a shot at the playoffs is our frontcourt of Andy/Jamison/JJ
But he busted his ass for 7 years in Cleveland and look at how they treated him
yeah. they treated him like a king. I wish i was treated the way lebron was treated…They let him do whatever he wanted…And jesse jackson is an idiot because if anything, gilbert was a ‘slave’ to the demands of lebron. Gilbert became the servant of lebron and lebron literally was “King James”
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
wow great article final
and great comment, this is what I’ve been saying the whole time management always looking forward to finding the next big athlete to control. and it won’t stop, if LBJ got hurt and they thought he couldn’t play he would be old new in the city , jus shows , some places has no loyalty to the players , even stern has no loyalties to the players great article
by Real raptors fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:14 PM EDT reply actions
how could a team
possible show loyalty to the players when they no longer show loyalty to a team?
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jul 15, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He was wrong.
Not to change teams but to show the complete lack of courtesy to the fans who have supported him.
His pathetic interview will have hopefully have ‘damaged’ his brand as many neutral fans will be turned off by his behaviour. As a professional, the correct way would have been to have released at press statement 24hrs before the interview (if he needed to do that) in which he simply stated that he decided that it was time to move on, and thanking the fans for their conduct, make a point that he was doing a sign and trade (I think they got draft picks in 2012 and 2013) to ensure that Cleveland could look to go in a new direction.
He could then have done the interview
He seems surprised there has been a backlash. Exactly how rubbish are his advisors. Gilbert was OTT but to describe his behaviour with slavery is stupid and wrong and offensive … since when were slaves multi-millionaire.
The fact is he dragged it all out as a Me Me Me spin to inflate his ego and if he doesn’t like the fall out, then too bad.
He can become the new poster boy for how arrogants sportsmen shouldn’t behave.
by kernow on Jul 15, 2010 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The point about slavery is not how much money money they’re making – everyone who works for an employer is a slave and just renting out their services. It’s about the institution of professional sport, where teams think of players as property, and even fans think of players as their teams’ property.
Many fans were pre-emptively lashing out at Bosh and James during the regular season and playoffs – before they even had reached the FA period or put on any TV specials.
Also, about the S&T, I don’t think he knew. Reports had all three on varying lengths of deals, and it only got settled once the actual 2010-11 cap figures came in and they figured out what they planned for guys like Haslem/Miller.
everyone who works for an employer is a slave and just renting out their services
if you want to look at it that way…then every single person in the world pretty much is a slave…except for the few people who own businesses and the unemployed. Its so hard being a slave and making a living. I would rather not be a slave and just not have a job…/sarc
(webster’s)
Slave: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
Servitude: a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one’s course of action or way of life
nope…The definition of slave does not fit because basketball players have liberty to determine action and way of life. If anything, because it is a star driven league, basketball is the sport where the players have the MOST liberty…lebron got anything he wanted from the cavs organization. If thats not liberty, i don’t know what is.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
see when u have eyes of no pain what would u see
if u never took a tripe back in time and never see what i seen or hear what i heard if u don’t listen or see in spirit why would u understand what Jesse was saying , u think of now but not the past ,
but as every black person who knows them self or people who know pain would see a different thing, plus its not about money that’s why u got lost . with no point in your comment ,u jus sound like a hater , because he didn’t do what u think he should do or how he did it , which is stupid , it jus a sport game.
he ask his mother for advise which every man does or female , cause it human nature , so u hate his mother now, cause u knew who he ask, wow. Get over yourself your a joker , leave the man to make his money where it counts and that’s from a real fan not a pretender of a fan , and u better be black to be talking about what Jesse said to be stupid and wrong and offensive. or your jus stupid. don’t talk about something u clearly know nothing about , my peoples history go back before there even was a Europe or Christianity or Islam or a herbrew faith which it all comes from so peace to u and learn some pain to understand my peoples pain which is history ,not supremacy history which most people fellow but truth
by Real raptors fan on Jul 15, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
if the argument is
if you haven’t travelled back in time to feel/see/hear slavery you can’t understand it…. exactly how do you feel/see/hear slavery. Through books? Why can someone of another colour not feel/see/hear or understand it?
The argument that this Lebron scenario has anything to do with slavery is ludicrous. Its a rich man who is pissed he is losing his meal ticket. Its fans, of all colours, pissed their best player is leaving town and there team will suffer. Lebron’s colour is insignificant. He just happens to be of a certain persuasion.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jul 16, 2010 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions
cause u jus cant
and u keep proving it , u know nothing like i said , it has noting to do with money , u feel your right , and ill leave it at that , u will never understand a black African person cause your white, like i said .it sad but true , u feel what u feel and i well always see the truth , but when u learn something threw experience of knowledge of history and now then join me in reality
by Real raptors fan on Jul 16, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
ps your so stupid it Ludicrous
until the mad say the N word u don’t think he has a racist or a control problem,
by Real raptors fan on Jul 16, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
really I'm white?
really?
I just can’t because why? How am I proving it? Do I prove it by not agreeing with you?
Your entire statement is based on personal assumptions about other people. Which has now led to a generalization. Which is the first step to……..
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jul 17, 2010 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions
u jus dont get that why your a fool
pretend all u wont to say blah blah blah , your a fool . the question was are u white . cause if your black and u know your history u would understand automatically
if u are black and talking like u have knowledge and your such a wiser man than Jesse Jackson then tell me where did civilization start from and who started it and who rob them of there own name country and culture, then tell me about social order and who runs that and then tell me since your so smart that a simply clear statement , a lot of people are ashamed of mostly white people sorry jus true.
when u deal with people who know and understand power of processing of a people and misunderstanding that clearly pass over your head to know what he said and why he said it , cause
when any black person say something that u may know but clearly try to hid in intolerance and ignorance u act stupid like u don’t know peace
by Real raptors fan on Jul 17, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
“if your black and u know your history u would understand automatically”
you can be any colour to understand history and the history of racism and slavery. Every culture, race and creed have been put under those conditions at one point in time. (do you know the history of Native Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Jews, Europeans, Middle East, East Asians?… I do and they have all suffered from that in one way or another)
“where did civilization start from "
The Middle East. The first written law system and cities. It is called the cradle of civilization and it included blacks, Arabs and Jews. (slavery was a common and accepted occurence throughout that time period (and earlier) right up until the 19th century)
Anyways, well beyond the scope of a Raptors blog, but just because intolerance and racsim exists, doesn’t mean it happens all the time, or that it exists in every decisions by a person of any race.
Both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have admitted that not all of the occurances that they call racism are accurate. But rather its a means to get the message out to people that racism is still out there. However without knowing Gilbert, what type of person he is or how he acts, calling him a racist for being upset with Lebron leaving, and then airing out his dirty laundry, is doing the one thing you and others are condeming… generalizaitons, assumptions and discrimination.
Just as a side note “pretend all u wont to say blah blah blah” amazing.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jul 17, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
yup i do and your wrong wrong wrong
nice come back but u been reading European history , first of there are no such people called Jews back then they where people of Hebrew faith only black , brown and oriental, no European were even in that land , there was no Rome or Greece and there was no middle east, it was called Western Asia if u should learn African History u can understand world history my friend cause that’s where it start from , in Africa first in a democracy and invention of science and faith in one God
The so called cradle of civilization start in central Africa up to northern Africa which is Egypt which European went to school to learn all things if u don’t even know that then , wow
Also Oriental Jews had established communities in Baghdad in Iraq and in other Middle Eastern countries 12 centuries before Islam arrived
Egypt had the first laws in which the Hebrews took as the 10 commandments but they had like 32 law, and still there was no slaver do u even know about the Nile Valley civilization
like u said Jus because intolerance and racism exists, doesn’t mean it happens all the time, OKAy do u watch TV or Study world history or listen to music or watch movies , or listen to politics or sports Com on man please , your blind as a bat , no Bat can see better than we think so make u think even more. how u think is European thinking like but so does a lot of people doesn’t mean it right , i done so read learn more that all i can say , start with Dr Clarke look him up he’s a very very smart man
by Real raptors fan on Jul 23, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
first of there are no such people called Jews back then they where people of Hebrew faith only black , brown and oriental
no…they were called the jewish nation or the nation of Israel, but we are just arguing about whether the word was ‘jews’ or ‘nation of israel’ or ‘hebrews’. Plus, you just showed you don’t know the first thing about judaism. The people that were jewish were not black. the first jews were not oriental or whatever you want to call ‘brown’. They were Canaanites from the middle east. That is where the first jews were. Yes there are oriental jews but judaism was brought there through settlement during the middle ages.
no European were even in that land
The so called cradle of civilization start in central Africa up to northern Africa which is Egypt which European went to school to learn all things if u don’t even know that then
No…there was no ‘central african cradle of civilization’. If you learned that somewhere, that is a myth and propaganda spread by a pro-african teacher. There is minimal history recorded in central africa period. If you look at history through the scope of archaeology and anthropology (basically historical evidence) there is nothing in Central Africa.
The first 4 Cradles of Civilization were Egypt, Mesopotamia (Iraq/Iran), the Indus River valley (western india/Bengaladesh) and ancient China. If you want to call ancient Egypt “africans” that is a stretch because they were levant peoples (‘western asia’) who migrated from what is now the middle east to Egypt. So they are much closer related in fact (genetically) to jews than pretty much any african-americans (who were taken from sub-saharan african lands, especially along the western coast of africa.
Yes the egyptians were more advanced than the Greeks, but the greeks did catch up…
Egypt had the first laws in which the Hebrews took as the 10 commandments but they had like 32 law, and still there was no slave
Nope…The Egyptians did NOT have the first laws because the first code of laws was established before the Jewish people. They were the Code of Hammurabi. Are you talking about the Nash Papyrus? That proves nothing, except that there were some Jews living in Egypt in 150 BCE…plus the Dead Sea Scrolls predate them so there is no evidence that the 10 commandments were stolen from the egyptians.
Are you saying there was no slavery? there is Archeological evidence that points to jewish slavery in egypt being much more than a nice story…There is more proof of slavery in egypt than other things in history taken to be a fact (like the fact that alexander the great, or jesus existed)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
The African Contribution to Technology and Science
by Yosef ben-Jochannan (1986)
I will first express my appreciation for you having me here, and ask that you meticulously follow my comments, because as you know I’m known to be controversial, and that’s an understatement. I’m controversial not because something is wrong with my documentation, but because I challenge Western hegemony.
Africa, as the label of my talk, cannot be spoken of in terms of Adam and Eve, because long before they had an Adam and Eve there was an Africa and African people, with concepts that predated Abraham. All of the pyramids of Africa, not only those in Egypt, but those in Sudan, and the two in northern Ethiopia (which the British and the Berlin Conference removed and put into southern Sudan), where built thousands of years before there was an Adam and Eve mentioned anywhere on the planet. When you get to the birth of Abraham, at the same time when the Africans along the Nile are already in their thirteenth dynastic period, there is no Adam and Eve, because the Hebrews gave you the concept of Adam and Eve. Most of you believe that it has something to do with facts, rather than theocracy.
To speak of Africa you would have to revise your concept of the Virgin Mary and understand that it’s nothing but a copy of Isis, and her husband God Osiris. You will also have to go to the Nile Valley to the temples there and see that this is thousands of years before Westminster Abbey, and, of course the Vatican in Rome. You can go all over the Nile Valley and elsewhere, and I use the Nile Valley, particularly, in that the oldest records of man are still there in terms of monuments. Of course, there are a lot stolen from Africa here in London, and in Berlin or other such places.
Your ancestors gave to the world the calendar in 10,000 B.C.E. (Before the common “Christian” Era). That is 8,000 years before Adam and Eve. Your ancestors revised that dating system because of their understanding of the astronomical calculations. It is the science of astronomy that gives the ability to read calendars. Thus 10,000 B.C.E. saw the first calendar. The term is self explanatory, the solar calendar showing the relationship of the moon and the sun, etc. that gives us the basis of the present calendar, with 364 days corrected each year, instead of 365 days corrected each fourth year. And I will say again that there wasn’t a single European society in existence at that time. The first European writer, Homer, had not been born yet. And when Homer was born and finally became literate because of the teachings the Africans gave him, he too started to corroborate the evidence your ancestors had by stating that even the gods of Europe, Greece, in particular, which was then called Pyrrhus, came from Ethiopia.
I’m sure that those of you who have been to college, if not here in England somewhere else, know that I’m quoting from two works of Homer, the Iliad and the Odyssey, which brought Europe and England into civilization. The African we must talk about is the African that caused people to understand science, medicine, law, engineering, etc. It is common at the universities here to deal with science as if the art of medicine came from a Greek named Hippocrates. We don’t have Hippocrates until about 333 B.C.E. Yet we don’t need any record other than Hippocrates himself to know that what is being taught at the universities here are lies.
One has to realize that Hippocrates himself, in what is called the Hippocratic Oath, wrote that he had a god named Escalipius, the Greek name for the God Imhotep. Imhotep had died 2500 years before the birth of Hippocrates. Imhotep is the first known multigenius other than the one you call Michelangelo. We don’t have Michelangelo until 1609 and he is not known until he does the work of Pope Julius II, who commissioned Michelangelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Michelangelo used his cousin and other relatives as models for some of the biblical characters that he painted. The basis of engineering was created by Imhotep. He created the first stone structure; that building still stands in a place called Sakkara, about less than an hour north-west of what is today called Cairo. And here you will see the Grand Lodge of Djoser at Sakkara. That modern structure was built in the Third Dynasty, since Djoser was the third pharaoh of the Third Dynasty. Imhotep was the man who gave us the little quip, “eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we shall die.”
The FIRST WORLD western university was the University of Jenne of Timbuktu. But as we continue, we realize that in the universities here you use paper to write on, and if it was not for paper the means of communication would not be as it is today. But in Egypt, Sudan and other such places, and I will remind you that Egypt is still in Africa, the Africans reached such a height in engineering that we even turned the Nile in an s-turn to cut down the flow when the inundation period came. That brings us to 2200 B.C. That means at least 1400 years before the first European wrote anything.
Africa, Mother Africa, as I prefer to call her, understanding that the Greeks called her Africa in about 500–400 B.C. I’m talking about the time when the first Greeks who had gone to Pyrrus, who had come into Egypt by way of Leba (now called Libya) and established their little villages in a little enclave, they then called Africa long before the continent was partitioned by the colonialists. I am speaking about 11.3 or 11.5 million square miles of land, where first the concept of a God and Goddess Nut is shown as the mother of the sky. Symbolically, the God Geb, the god of the earth, lived in a little chapel in the center of Hathor. The African woman is giving birth even to the sun, in the morning through her vagina and receiving the sun back in the evening through her mouth. This shows the whole rotation of the world, long before the world had a beginning and an end. These Africans along the Nile were to do more of this. They were to give us a God Osiris, where people went yearly to pay pilgrimage long before there was a wailing wall in Palestine or a myth of a Jesus born in Bethlehem, which changed at the Nicene Conference of Bishops, ordered by Constantine and removed from a cave in Ethiopia to a manger in Bethlehem.
It is Africa that gave birth to Hadzart Bilal ibn Rahab, who taught Mohammed ibn Abdullah, who was illiterate in his own language, not able to read and write. In spite of what your belief system may be, Hadzart Bilal ibn Rahab became the head of the Moslem embassies under Mohammed ibn Abdullah, Omar the Great, and Abu Bakr. I think that we need to know history before we can quote texts in religious scriptures.
There was a myth of Africa as the home of a people who ate each other and missionaries. I wish we did eat the missionaries, it’s never too late! We’ve got to understand that this Africa we are speaking about even established Europe’s greatest universities and first, the University of Salamanca in Spain. The Africa we are speaking about produced the ancestors of the present Queen of England, George III, the German king who spoke no English. We forget that Elizabeth’s grandparents and ancestors are related to George III, who was the son of Alexander the Medici, the cardinal of Rome who later became Pope, and an Ethiopian woman by the name of Martha. So I have to say, don’t worry too much about it because Elizabeth belongs to the family. The Africa, which you may not know, happened to give birth to Zinjanthropus Boisei by the Africans of Kenya. The Leakey family, Louis and Mary, dated him to 1.7 million years old. Adam is about 4000–5000 years. The Africa you do not know gave birth also to Lucy in Ethiopia dated 3.2 million years old, they are both in Kenyan and Ethiopian museums. And some of us are still ashamed to be Africans! Some of us pay money to have our nose reshaped, our hair fried and boiled and all sorts of things, because we don’t know this Africa; we know the Africa of the slave trade with John Hawkins from London and the other little songs.
Yes, that is the phase of Africa. Surely, slavery is a phase of lives past, but slavery is a tiny little bit from 640 A.D. with the Arabs, 1506 A.D. with the Europeans to now as against what I’m talking about; it is minuscule by comparison, because if I wished to go back to Africa, not only when we were performing astronomy, engineering in establishing the pyramids and so forth, but when we gave to the world the fundamental moral concept. “I have not killed man or woman.” This is a response to the admonishing of the Goddess Maat. You notice that every time we talk about justice and rights we have as African woman representing the scale of justice. The response to the admonishing which would have stated, “You shall not speak ill of your mother and your father; you shall not kill man or woman; you shall not hide a light under a bushel,” sounds familiar to you because they said some guy named Moses discovered them thousands of years later on Mount Sinai.
Yet they said Moses was born in Goshen. This is the Goshen in Egypt according to the Torah or the Old Testament in the Book of Exodus. Moses had to be trained, and if he was born and lived there (for between age one to eighty-five years of age), according to your Bible, then he must have read this, because he was taught in the Grand Lodge. If he went to the lodge at age seven as a young boy, then he did not come out until he was forty-seven, because it took forty years of training to make a priest in all of the disciplines. So then, Moses came as nothing but a copy of the Egyptian priests and Teachings of The Egyptian Mysteries System.
These same Africans went on to give us the concept of the monotheistic deity. Thus it was that Amenhotep IV, who changed his name to Akhenaton, who gave us the concept of a solitary god by the name of Aten. Akhenaton died long before the birth of Moses. Is it possible for you to come to England, go to kindergarten here, go to elementary school, college, do post-doctoral work and never hear of the English national anthem, the Magna Carta, or Queen Anne’s stature? Is it possible, just as it was for Moses to be born in Egypt, a soul brother, because his first wife was Deborah, according to the Bible, and had never heard of Akhenaton.
And it is said that when Moses was running away from the Pharaoh for committing murder (before he got the rod of Mount Sinai), and his brother Aaron was charged for stealing from the Pharaoh’s treasury, he met Deborah. It would seem to be that Deborah said, “That Egyptian,” pointing to Moses; there was nothing in Moses to tell that he was Jewish; he was not wearing any special clothes; he looked like any other soul brother you can find in London, the Caribbean, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Ghana, the South Pacific. And then you say you are the minority! You are members of the third world. I am not a member of the third world, I am a member of the first world.
When one of the first of the so-called philosophers came to Egypt, we see him before 640 B.C.E. When he was supposed to have released his philosophical thinking, he is in Egypt. From Socrates down to Aristotle, the so-called post-Socratian philosopher, every one of them spent several years in Egypt and of course the only one who couldn’t come since he was the creation of Plato’s mind, was Socrates. And even he (Socrates) was supposed to have taken the hemlock for teaching African philosophy: “Socrates is an evil doer” was part of the charge against him. Plato had to run (and all the others) for teaching this philosophy. Would you have to run from England for teaching English history? Neither would the Greek government persecute the Greek philosophers for teaching Greek philosophy. It was somebody’s Philosophy they were teaching, and where did they go to school to know whose philosophy?
It is not until the Persians in 525 B.C.E. allowed them in, and it was not until 323 B.C.E. at the death of Alexander, the son of Philip of Macedonia, that Aristotle was allowed by General Soter (who changed his name to Ptolemy I) to have Tusak to bring those works down, that the Greeks had access to Egyptian works. Those who could study in Egypt for themselves did so, while some were sent over to Greece where they established what they called the Peripatetic schools in what later was called Alexandria, out of African materials.
Is that the Africa you know? It couldn’t be, otherwise you couldn’t be praising your masters; you would be going back to your educational past and be your own master, at least if not physically, mentally. It is difficult, because colonialism brings to us a kind of history written by the conqueror for the conquered to read and enjoy. When the conquered looks around and finds that even God speaks from the heart of the conqueror, the conquered then becomes suspicious of God. What is God’s interest in all of this? It is not the African who said in the Songs of Solomon, Chapter 1, Verses 1–9, and when you get to 8 and 9, it says, “Ye daughters of Canaan look not upon me because I am black, because I’m beautiful. My mother put me in the vineyard, but my sister, she kept indoors.” That is why the Queen of Sheba turned black. I thought it was because her mother and father were black! But even in the Bible you find lies, racism and all that. As if we didn’t have Bibles. We have “The Book of the Dead” which was changed right here in London from its original name in 1895 at the British Museum. It was called “The Book of Coming Forth By Day and Night.” We have the “Book of the Divines,” “The Book of Judgment,” “The Heart of Judgment,” and other such works, that preceded the Old Testament and the Jewish Kabala by thousands of years.
The Africans gave us the concept against murder. When the Shipwats at the Temple of Philos, a Greek word, which means Angelica, by the way, of the Goddess Auset, which the Greeks called Isis, and her son Heru, who the Greeks called Horus, and all the gods viewed the murder of Osiris by his brother Seth. A murder that preceded the Cain and Abel murder by thousands of years, beginning on the island of Angelica, continuing at the Temple of the God Horus, continuing further and you see the Virgin Birth and Immaculate Conception. It is here long before you see it in lifestyle, and you can see in life-size the drama that preceded Greece, showing Horus killing his uncle for the revenge of killing his father, showing his uncle symbolically as a hippopotamus.
This continued to the Temple of Osiris in Abydos, where pictures of the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, showing Osiris’ penis perpendicular to his body, being symbolic to the resurrection. When you go there you will see it all over the place. Those of you who have been to Egypt know that life is shown as the penis coming out of Peta’s naval, representative of the extension of the umbilical cord, which is the extension of life, the source of life.
The Africa that I have spoken of, you need to know, and no one can keep you a slave after you know it. In America there is a saying that “A mind is a terrible thing to waste.” It is said on television all the time by people who call themselves “The United Negro College Fund.” You can only waste your mind on that one, and by using the term “negro” it indicates they’ve got no minds, because I have been looking for a negro, and I haven’t found one in umpteen years. Because I’m not a Portuguese, I don’t create negroes nor Negroland. I’m an African, and that word we need to deal with as having come from the Greeks. I guess some say it has got good connotations. So I beg of you to always carry a mirror, whether you are a man or a woman, to look at yourself daily. Then you’ve got to have a good feeling about that face you’ve got, the texture of hair you’ve got, and all the fine features you’ve got. I don’t know about you, brothers, but when I look at the face of that African woman, I see heaven!
(A lecture delivered for the Minority Ethnic Unit of the Greater London Council, London, England, March 6–8, 1986. It was addressed mainly to the African community in London consisting of African people from the Caribbean and African people from Africa.)
by Real raptors fan on Jul 25, 2010 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
To speak of Africa you would have to revise your concept of the Virgin Mary and understand that it’s nothing but a copy of Isis, and her husband God Osiris
Nope…not at all. there were significant differences…first of all the whole ‘virgin’ thing with Isis is very disputed among historians and is not at all anything concrete to be historical proof of anything. Second of all, Osiris was not “the god” or “the creation god” and maybe not the most powerful god in egypt…And people who say this always talk about horus because he was the sun god and Jesus was the son of god…Hate to break it to you, but they DIDN’T SPEAK ENGLISH. That is the only language where the word meaning sun and word meaning son sound or look anything remotely similar…
That is 8,000 years before Adam and Eve
where is this calendar? I tried to find information on it but there doesn’t seem to be any…oh, not only the textbooks, but all other books and even the internet is ‘eurocentric’.
because of the teachings the Africans gave him
Proof?
the Iliad and the Odyssey, which brought Europe and England into civilization
not true at all…just like you think everyone needs to learn african history, you just don’t know european history of civilization…
Escalipius, the Greek name for the God Imhotep
nope…this is you again jumping to conclusions. I will not deny there are similarities, but there are between many deities of many religions. the greeks associated Imhotep with Asclepius…for the plain and simple fact that they had similar roles in some ways. that is like saying that Christianity associates their god with “allah” and they must be the “same”, but really they recognize the 2 gods having a similar role in their religion.
The FIRST WORLD western university was the University of Jenne of Timbuktu.
there is no record of this university…however there is a 12th century University of Timbuktu which may be the oldest university but there is no clear founding date. the earliest records of it say it could possibly be the oldest western university, but only by a couple decades at most. Also, the univeristy…however the university’s goal was to teach a religion invented outside of africa and there is no evidence to prove that it was built by africans instead of the Imams from the islamic holy land.
where people went yearly to pay pilgrimage long before there was a wailing wall in Palestine or a myth of a Jesus born in Bethlehem, which changed at the Nicene Conference of Bishops, ordered by Constantine and removed from a cave in Ethiopia to a manger in Bethlehem.
wow…A, what is with the Deal of the cave in Ethiopia to a manger in bethlehem? this guys really likes making stuff up…oh, and to further his own beliefs that the egyptians were superior, he slanders all other religions.
The Africa we are speaking about produced the ancestors of the present Queen of England, George III, the German king who spoke no English. We forget that Elizabeth’s grandparents and ancestors are related to George III, who was the son of Alexander the Medici, the cardinal of Rome who later became Pope, and an Ethiopian woman by the name of Martha
this is where I completely lose respect for the man…now he is making up stories to try to prove that all the royalty in Europe was really derived from africans…What??? I am calling shenanigans right here.
the whole thing is pretty much taking history and the historical evidence and piecing together things that just don’t exist…like Seth killing Osiris MUST be a sign that the Jews borrowed that from the egyptians when
a) there is no evidence towards that
b) they could have easily come up with a story about the morals of killing ones brother independently of egypt
c) their is no evidence early jewish scholars were aware of this story
Do you see this large flaw? please say you do and don’t ignore it because the guy says something you like. I could go on and go and read every single thing he says and point out that its not true, but its honestly wasting my time.
The guy not only is piecing together things that don’t exist but taking only historical evidence that proves his point. You can prove/disprove anything if you only take one side of the evidence…there in fact is more evidence to disprove what he says but he only takes the evidence that makes it look like his view is right…
This is forming fact around opinion (changing facts to fit ones opinion) instead of forming opinions around well known facts (basing your opinion on anthropological evidence. its okay to do this in politics where what is the ‘truth’ and what is ‘right’ isn’t clear (and its used often) but we are talking about history which is based on evidence, not far fetched theories based off of similar myths that must prove something…No self-respecting anthropologist would make these theories (my college anthropology professor just called much of these types of theories just pure BS).
Also, like I said in one post, Egypt is technically in the geography of africa. He keeps insisting this because he has no argument without egypt. His whole argument is based off of the fact that egyptians were originally africans. The problem is, like I said they weren’t.
They were from the levant region which stretches from Turkey to Iraq…basically, the land west of Mesopotamia. These people had genetic similarities to the Mesopotamians, the Canaanites, the Persians, etc…basically, any group of people from the Middle east. The ‘ancient egyptians’ migrated and started a civilization around the same time the Mesopotamians did too.
I am jewish. I will say that right now. My family has been jewish for hundreds of years. There are also in my family a couple people with Crohs disease which is much more prevalent in Ashkenazic jews. Studies have proven the diaspora of jews. They looked at certain mutation in the DNA and their prevalence. They found that Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews were significantly different, genetically, then their non-jewish neighbors, ergo they did not share an ancient common ancestor.
If you look at the genetic mutations of Ashkenazic and Sephardic jews, they most resemble the current people living in Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon. These regions are also the 3 countries surrounding Israel…This is also known as the Levant region.
This speaker is trying to say that if you trace your ancestry, you get great kings of egypt (if you are african-american) but there were many genetic differences between all saharan africans (not just egyptians) and sub-saharan africans. 99.9999% of african-americans in this country would have come from the sub-saharan region (only not 100% because there is always a chance at a weird occurance in statistics).
I am more related to the people that built the pyramids than you are. Genetically, we share a common ancestor somewhere in the Levant region. Both the history of the Egyptian people and Genetics prove this.
Technically, he is correct. Egypt is part of africa…However:
Does this mean that there is a connection, besides continental geography, between african-americans and the ancient Egyptians? No
Does it mean that the Egyptians and african-americans share a common ancestor? No, unless you go back to the birth of man (but then, don’t we all and what does that prove)?
Does it mean that genetically, the Egyptians were ‘african’? No. the only way they were african was by geography.
Does it mean that ‘africans’ created everything that western civilization was built on? Not even close.
Sorry, but you have absolutely no claim to what the egyptians accomplished…unless you are truly from egypt (like waaay back)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
wrong wrong wrong some true maybe
please please please stop , and think , then think some more lmao, middle ages lmao u talking about me wow wow
No…there was no ‘central african cradle of civilization’. If you learned that somewhere, that is a myth and propaganda spread by a pro-african teacher. There is minimal history recorded in central africa period. If you look at history through the scope of archaeology and anthropology (basically historical evidence) there is nothing in Central Africa.
wow jus wow lmao
?there is Archeological evidence that points to jewish slavery in egypt being much more than a nice story? Lmao
by Real raptors fan on Jul 25, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
so you are just going to laugh at my points and say wow, instead of making any of your own?
There is little, if any recorded history in sub-saharan africa before medieval times.
And yes, there is archaeological evidence of jewish slavery in egypt. there is also geological evidence that can prove several of the plagues existing and both point to the same period of time…so that geology proves that the 10 plagues could have happened, and archaeology proves the jews were there…both occuring at the same time. For history, especially that old, that is almost definitive proof.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
i'll end it with this
The ancient Egyptians called themselves KM or Kam-Au which means Black people or Black God-people, and their country Kemet (Kamit /Khemit), which means land of the Black people and the Black Land. The foreign word Egypt is derived from the Greek word Aigyptos / Aegyptos which also means Black. However, Western historians, Egyptologists, and professors disseminate the misinformation that the word Kemet only refers to the colour of the land which it can, and not to the colour of its people which it does. These Egyptologists, scholars and historians have deliberately manufactured this deception based partly on a section of Herodotus’ statement which says that Egypt is a land of Black soil; completely ignoring the fact that he also said that the Egyptian people were Black.
Examine this sample of kings from the 1-5th dynasties of the early Egyptian period which many historians suggest was dominated by white rulers.
(1) – 1st dynasty (3890 – 2686 BC). Narmer (Aha/Menes) was the first unifier of Upper and Lower Egypt.
(2) – 2nd dynasty (3890 – 2686 BC). Hotepsekhemwy.
(3) – 3rd dynasty (2650 – 2575 BC). Sanakhte was the first pharaoh of the third dynasty of ancient Egypt.
(4) – 4th dynasty (2575 – 2467 BC). Pharaoh Khufu was the second king of dynasty 4 of the Old Kingdom.
(5) – 5th dynasty (2465 – 2345 BC). Userkaf was the founder of the 5th Dynasty.
These professors and Egyptologists sought to deceive the world by painting the picture that Egyptian civilization was created by the people who originally came from Asia, yet no Asian parent can be found anywhere. There are no buildings, writings, or cultural material to provide the evidence that anything came from Asia that could have produced what was found in Egypt, but on the other hand, there is plenty of evidence which clearly point to the fact that the reverse was true, including these words from the Egyptians themselves. “We came from the source of the Nile, the foothills of the mountains of the moon”. A map will show that they either came from Ethiopia or Uganda, so taking the Egyptians own words as to where they came from, that would be the hinterlands of Afrika, up river, up the Nile, near either Mount Ruwenzori or Mount Kilimanjaro, which would take them either into Ethiopia or the Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania areas.
The Egyptians used only one term to describe themselves – KM(T) – which literally means Black men. The term represents a collective noun which describes the whole people of Pharaonic Egypt as a Black people, and this is the strongest term existing in the Pharaonic language that indicates Blackness.
FOR MORE EVIDENCE Go TO THIS SITE
http://www.blackhistoryjohnmoore.bravehost.com/Black_Egyptians.html
by Real raptors fan on Jul 25, 2010 5:39 AM EDT up reply actions
The ancient Egyptians called themselves KM or Kam-Au which means Black people or Black God-people, and their country Kemet (Kamit /Khemit), which means land of the Black people and the Black Land.
So, if someone calls themselves ‘black’ or their land ‘black land’, they are automatically related to sub saharan africans and also, you? that is a ridiculous argument that doesn’t prove anything.
I know some ‘wiggers’ who call themselves black. are you also genetically related to them?
What does this prove? that the egyptians called themselves ‘black’. Who knows if this was about skin color. Anything outside of the fact that they called themselves ‘black’ is pure speculation and you cannot base this stuff on pure speculation.
yet no Asian parent can be found anywhere.
you sure? have you tried genetics because it will disagree with you. In the same study, MODERN Egyptians, the descendants of ancient egyptians (mostly) were found to be pretty closely related to groups like the Syrians, the Jews, and the Lebanese…There were some differences, but they were nowhere near genetically related in these studies to Sub-Saharan Africans.
but on the other hand, there is plenty of evidence which clearly point to the fact that the reverse was true, including these words from the Egyptians themselves. "We came from the source of the Nile, the foothills of the mountains of the moon"
so because a couple thousand years later, with no history or knowledge of where they came from (though there is a history of them leaving the region and arriving in the nile river delta), they say they have always been in africa, they must have been? There are probably tons of people who say “my ancestors were from america” because they have no idea where their ancestors were from…
A map will show that they either came from Ethiopia or Uganda
basic genetics prove otherwise…plus, we are assuming when they say source, they literally mean our interpretation of what source means when talking about rivers…they could mean the bottom, who knows? we are making many assumptions and without the assumptions, this is nothing.
a) are you sure?
b) what does this prove?
c) how do we know they called themselves something we haven’t found out yet.
And I went on another egyptology website…You say that they called themselves “black people” and they also called their land, the ‘black land’. this websites has the translation as ‘people of the black land’ and not black people…This makes more sense because people call themselves the land they are from and they called their land the black land.
Why did they call their land the ‘black land’? I will explain it simply. The reason they are there is the Nile River Delta…the Nile river is so great for growing because of the silt and the floods…Silt is black, ergo they called the land ‘black land’. they also referred to the land as ‘red land’…so are they also native american (red people)? No, they are just referring to the reddish sand.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
you are really ignorant. Blacks are the only people who understand slavery? so they become an automatic authority and we must appeal to them even if their definition of slavery doesn’t fit technical dictionary definitions?
You really can trace your roots back to the times of Hammurabi? because that is some of the earliest recorded history before Judaism. Here are a list of places with history that is recorded before Judaism: Mycenae (greece), Troy (Turkey) the Nile River Delta, Babylonia (Iraq), the Indus Valley people (Bangeladesh, India), China. Can you really trace your ancestors back to any of those places? because if not, then there is no recorded history before Judaism.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
i didnt say that
but its plain to see that only white people can’t see when its in front of your face and to hate on Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who talk cause there have lived it ,u complain of them talking so i know your thinking and sad and funny and dangerous
by Real raptors fan on Jul 23, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
but its plain to see that only white people can’t see when its in front of your face
this is blatantly racist…you are basically saying “white people aren’t as smart as black people”.
and to hate on Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who talk cause there have lived it
I hate to tell you, but don’t take these guys’ word as the word of god or an expert just because they were black and involved in the civil rights movement. both have OPENLY ADMITTED that a good deal of what they say is not completely true and is somewhat an exaggeration. they feel they are there to just point out that racism still exists…ironically, trying to prove racism (against blacks) still exists, they race bait whites and say things that are actually somewhat racist against whites…
How is my thinking dangerous because I do not take Jesse Jackson and Sharpton at their word? they ADMIT they exaggerate the truth.
I also don’t understand what either of these guys have to do with your claim that you can trace your roots back before any religion…Are you from any of those regions? you seem to claim to be black which would in turn place your ancestors in the sub saharan region of africa, most likely from the western coast. However, no one from these areas and no one who is truly of “african” descent can trace their roots back as long as you claim.
As I stated to you (or someone else) egyptians actually trace their roots back to the middle east or western Asia. In genetics, and in how they look, they are very closely related to the people of the Levant Region. Egypt is also often characterized as part of the middle east too.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
THat a lie wow propaganda at it best
DNA , lMao wow , reading some history son please stop arguing the fact i made and read some history son, my people are not stupid to the fact of history so please read history , there no black agenda , there can’t be it is jus truth , so learn European history and watch to much TV to know what is truth fact or a lie, u think in a way that is not of your own faith , and u say things like
middle east or western Asia. In genetics, and in how they look, they are very closely related to the people of the Levant Region. Egypt is also often characterized as part of the middle east too.
the hykoss into Egypt and took over for 200 year until they got kick out same time the hebrews left NO Slaver its a lie Watch to much movies which are lies and funny cause they dont tell u thw whole truth even tho its in the good book
nope only to Europeans last time check Egypt is in Africa why u don’t wonna say that an its funny , from susdan Ethiopia the Congo to south Africa evidence
ask all the European countries which sole so man things out of Africa
PEople for get it believe this man cause he know everything , but if u are interesting in the truth please clear your mind of everything u learn in school and start looking for books which back up there fact , Dna lmao
by Real raptors fan on Jul 25, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
my people are not stupid to the fact of history so please read history , there no black agenda , there can’t be it is jus truth ,
wow…you are SOOO blinded by the propoganda on your side and your own views that ‘must be the TRUTH’. you claim there HAS to be a European agenda, though there is no proof of this, but there CANNOT be a black agenda.
nope only to Europeans last time check Egypt is in Africa why u don’t wonna say that an its funny
no one is arguing geography…egypt is part of africa. the fact that ‘egyptians are related to other groups of africans’ is definitely arguable and the evidence points away from that.
but if u are interesting in the truth please clear your mind of everything u learn in school and start looking for books which back up there fact , Dna lmao
So I should just forget everything I have learned and only read a certain view of history and that view’s propoganda and outlook of their place in the world? If I went back to 1940’s germany, that would make me a Nazi…just saying. I read books and studies that back up ANY fact…I don’t ignore studies or evidence that doesn’t agree with my view.
Yeah, DNA…its actually much better at proving things than a couple words in linguistics.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
wow thats funny and u call me blatantly racist
u cant see a thing i told u already u still can see a thing
and u tell me am a racist and talk shit which i said proves that u are blind and think only one way , now is now and the past is what we make it
bla bla is all u hear , i’m done nothing u do is wrong i get it , your justified in everything u do, i understand, u say what ever u won’t its okay No lie is forever peace
by Real raptors fan on Jul 25, 2010 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, racist. When you say white people don’t understand and can never understand or comprehend any history about africa because they are white.
Racism (one of the few definitions in the dictionary): belief that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
By saying that black people comprehend history about africa better b/c they are black IS the literal definition of believing that racial differences (white vs. black) produce an inherent superiority (blacks always can understand whereas whites can’t) of a particular race.
So by definition, saying that IS being racist and anytime any african-american person says ‘you can’t do that because you are white’ or ‘you will never understand because you are white’ or ‘you cannot speak on the issue because you are white’ (which are said a lot), it is being racist. it fits the said definition perfectly because each one says that because racial differences, blacks have an inherent superiority. this is just as racist as all opinions that blacks were inferior (though have not proven yet to be as damaging).
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Author unknown, attributed to Mark Twain
Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret. ~Ambrose Bierce
the first one is true…but you can sometimes avoid it using logic. However, I am not at all angry…I am keeping my emotions cool, but the other guy doesn’t seem to be.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
who's angry u are
i repeat u dont care thats why u can’t understand , if u are of that race maybe it come easier, simple to understand , but u didn’t cause u are of a difference race or jus dont care , i keep making my point over and over and over http://chicksinthehuddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/south-park-dead-horse.jpg
by Real raptors fan on Jul 26, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
We can’t solve a problem by using the same kind of thinking we used to created them. Albert Einstein
we are citizens of the world . the tragedy of times is that we do not know this . Woodrow Wilson
A leader takes people where they want to go.
A great leader takes people where they don’t necessarily want to go but ought to be. Rosalynn Carter
by Real raptors fan on Jul 26, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
who’s angry u are
nope…not angry at all.
if u are of that race maybe it come easier, simple to understand , but u didn’t cause u are of a difference race or jus dont care
If I understand this correctly, you are saying that because I am of a different race, understanding racism doesn’t come easy? that is blatant racism by the dictionary definition.
You keep making your points over and over again, yes. the point is that YOU are beating the dead horse and that you are the one ignoring my points and just staying intrenched in your views. I was actually open to your ideas, but you seem to flat out ignore mine, which shows an inherent bias which will never change.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
wow…that is your response to everything…that I am funny and the implication is that you know what you are talking about but I don’t. Its kinda condescending and in some ways smart. You can never lose an argument if you just try to end with ad hominem’s or never admit you are wrong…or can you.
By using a fallacy like ad hominem, you are in fact, denigrating your argument and sabotaging yourself and making yourself lose.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
I don’t let anyone get away with anything, especially when it is ignorant slander (especially against my religion)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
i never slander nobody
I’ve been ignorant and slanders wow that’s funny , your religion wow , i didn’t know only once race could own a religion ,, what do u luv about bross09 ???? good question , hes a lair wont accept anything but the twisted norm , nothing new to me , but u luv, com on are u kidding me , i tell him Hebrew he tell me Jews , i tell him where the name Jew come from he takes it as slander funny , i tell him Egypt is in Africa he tell me he has more DNA in Egypt then any black African’s lol and I’m the bad guy wow , i tell him and any others that they couldn’t truly under stand slaver and what it did to blacks all over the world not only in America , but u tell me it compares to the Jews in 1900s or the 10 century maybe am wrong but am not trying to rewrite history look it up or study before u try to compare one to the other, bad is bad but one is worse and to try to compare it is even worse and am the bad guy wow , brother aw nothing u still dont get it , Ethiopia was the father of Egypt for the most part and share a Nile threw Africa , i give u evidence threw pictures and faces next y’all tell me there fake ,but science and faith is one , but with out one there is no other,
by Real raptors fan on Jul 31, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i didn’t know only once race could own a religion
Did I say my religion was only one race and my race owned it?
i tell him Hebrew he tell me Jews , i tell him where the name Jew come from he takes it as slander funny
actually, I accused you of implying that many jews were slaveowners as slander…and why are you insisting on arguing the semantics like this?
i tell him Egypt is in Africa he tell me he has more DNA in Egypt then any black African’s lol
have you ever looked at someone from egypt? have you ever looked at someone from the Sahara? they do not look the same as sub-saharan africans which would lead someone to believe that they did not share a common ancestor. Even a 5 year old could see this but I have more. Y-Haplope DNA points out the genetic similarities between Egyptians and Modern people living in the Levant Region. There is also historical evidence that they came from the levant region.
This whole argument rests on the geographical fact that Egypt is in Africa and all africans must be related. By this logic, we must all be related to Native-Americans because they also live here. You cannot just say everyone on a continent is related, because you don’t factor in travel. Plus, not everyone on a continent shares a common ancestor. Do iraqis and Korean’s share a common ancestor? No. But they live on the same continent.
i tell him and any others that they couldn’t truly under stand slaver and what it did to blacks all over the world not only in America
how did slavery truly affect blacks that weren’t enslaved first of all? Second, you mean the same blacks that sold their brothers into slavery?
but u tell me it compares to the Jews in 1900s
actually, the holocaust is MUCH worse than slavery in America. during the course of 5 years, Hitler wiped off the face of the Earth, 6 million Jews, and another 7-10 Million Slavic People, Gypsies, Gays, Masons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Disabled and the Mentally ill.
Nothing that ever happened in america can compare. Not even if you try to combine the Trail of tears, the enslavement of Africans, and the Japanese internment. All of these were terrible acts, but this just shows the scope of horrible tragedy that Hitler unleashed on the world.
look it up or study before u try to compare one to the other, bad is bad but one is worse and to try to compare it is even worse
Actually, I have studied slavery and genocide in the world. the enslavement of Africans was bad, but how was it worse than an of the other enslevements of people in history. It was on the largest scale at that time, but every new century brought slavery on a larger Scale. All genocide and slavery is bad. I am not the one trying to compare really, you brought up the comparison. You insisted that what happened in the South was the worst act of Genocide and Slavery in history, and none could compare. you also tried to say that it was the only act of slavery in history, which was just wrong. I was merely pointing out that there were definitely acts in history just as bad and its not like African-Americans are the most downtrodden people in history. not even Close.
Ethiopia was the father of Egypt for the most part and share a Nile threw Africa
where is the evidence that Ethiopia was the father of Egypt? ancedotal maybe but that is the weakest kind of evidence. They share the nile, they must be related right?
but science and faith is one , but with out one there is no other,
Actually, wrong. You can have faith without science. Many people do and reject science. in fact faith has been rejecting science for centuries going back to the Excommunication of Galileo Galilei. Many sects of faith still reject science such as the Dinosaurs never existed with humans. Science has existed also for centuries without faith…many scientists are in fact athiests who reject any sort of faith. you can have one without the other, though too much of either one can be a bad thing.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
WOw your normal
Wow its stupid to argue with someone like u , European Jews holocaust is MUCH worse than slavery in America and I wasn’t talking about only slaver in America my people where enslaved all over if u didn’t know the world , European Jews? Holocaust , don’t take this the wrong way but that was noting compare to slaver, where is your head , 7million , which that number needs to be research and hasn’t still but, stil is nothing compared before slavery and after slavery and to the native Americans and Canadian native(small pox)with a hand shake and thanks giving , and the atomic boob was nothing either huh , you are a racist or a real jerk off that doesn’t know shit, your evil if u think that way u know and if your going to talk about European killing there own people that’s horrible too but please don’t confuse your self with history. The number of blacks goes into the hundreds millions of people and the word holocaust shouldn’t even mean European Jews only
how did slavery truly affect blacks that weren’t enslaved first of all? DO u even know about Willy Lynch and and how europe rapping Africa fool stealling killing millions, to put others like Arabs and white in African lands what about apartheid in south Africa, if u don’t even know that ,what are u talking about , remember Marcus Mosiah Garvey
, Africa for African Quote came from. Buddy u love yourself too much and hid behind of the powers that be and i ain’t talking about God, and why do u think only one race has solo dominance of a religion that was a faith all over the world, isn’t Funny how thing play out. Do u even see it, all these Religions use to control and steal people land oh no u cant see it , how about Benjamin h freeman letter and Hitler is nothing just another evil man in European history
where is the evidence that Ethiopia was the father of Egypt? anecdotal maybe but that is the weakest kind of evidence. They share the Nile, they must be related right?
Wow u don’t think not jus the High-Cultures along the Nile but the beginning of the Nile?" The farthest point of the beginning of the Nile is in Uganda; this is the White Nile. Another point is in Ethiopia. The Blue Nile and White Nile meet in Khartoum; and the other side of Khartoum is the Omdurman Republic of Sudan. From there it flows from the south down north. And there it meets with the Atbara River in Atbara, Sudan. Then it flows completely through Sudan (Ta-Nehisi, Ta-Zeti or Ta-Seti, as it was called), part of that ancient empire which was one time adjacent to the nation called Meroe or Merowe. From that, into the southern part of what the Romans called “Nubia,” and parallel on the Nile, part of which the Greeks called “Egypticus”; the English called it “Egypt” and the Jews in their mythology called it “Mizrain” which the current Arabs called Mizr/Mizrair. Thus it ends in the Sea of Sais, also called the Great Sea, today’s Mediterranean Sea. When we say thus, we want to make certain that Hapi is still God of the Nile, shown as a hermaphrodite having the breasts of a woman and the penis of a man. God Hapi is always shown tying two symbols of the “Two Lands,” Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt, during Dynastic Periods, or from the beginning of the Dynastic Periods. The lotus flower is the symbol of the south, and the papyrus plant, the symbol of the north
Taken From by Yosef ben-Jochannan -The Nile Valley Civilization and the Spread of African Culture
by Real raptors fan on Aug 4, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
7million , which that number needs to be research and hasn’t still
nope…wrong. it has been researched many times and although they cannot pinpoint an exact number with complete certainty, it is more than 6 and less than 7. you also fail to ignore the other people Hitler killed which ammounted to close to 18 million…plus starting a war too…if we are going to go into deaths caused by germany at that time, its at least 50-60 million at an extremely conservative estimate.
The number of blacks goes into the hundreds millions of people and the word
enslaved? over the course of time, this is possible, but like I pointed out, a good portion of africans that were enslaved actually lived and died in africa. the idea of the white man coming over with nets and grabbing people is one of the most widespread myths. Plus, this number has no validity like the number of people killed in the holocaust does. its hypocritical (or racist) to say my number isn’t researched (which it is) when your number has even less research behind it.
what about apartheid in south Africa, if u don’t even know that ,what are u talking about
I have already proven multiple times I do know what apartheid was. however, that has no connection to the enslaved africans in the new world…None at all.
a) they didn’t live in the new world.
b) the Boer people had no connection to the slavery in the New World
c) The south africans were never taken to the new world as slaves and no one from that region was enslaved in the new world.
I don’t know what that exerpt was trying to prove, but again it was anecdotal evidence based on what people said (also known as hearsay). I have actual hard evidence and all you can come up with is ancient interpretations of words and meaningless passages.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
what are u talking about your so lost your crazy and Nile River Delta lol
Judaism lmao , 10,000 Bc befoe there was a Judasim , or Islam , ect, its funny same people who control how u view things spread your thinking to beleive in yourself see yourself where ever u go others are savages or primitive , this is noting new ,
Relationship between black and Jews very good book, from Babylon to Timbuktu also a good book , it trace alot to people, please read more to put it altogether, breathing when thinking is best and how stupid are u yes we are the only people who was in slaved Killed and murder no others can compare in million on millions yet where still here
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. do u ,don’t disrespect evidence and truth and religion to talk as if u think u understand yet know nothing , I’m ignorant wow can u understand can u really and then say Gilbert u can do no wrong.
peace
by Real raptors fan on Jul 26, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Relationship between black and Jews very good book, from Babylon to Timbuktu also a good book ,
I did read some of the book ‘the secret relationship between blacks and jews’. The problem is, that the information given is highly misleading, much taken out of context, and some is just plain inaccurate.
From Babylon to Timbuktu isn’t much better. you criticize europe from stealing the history of Egypt but that book does just that…it steals the history from other civilizations and “africanizes” it. To me, it felt like a half-assed researched term paper that was slanted.
breathing when thinking is best and how stupid are u yes we are the only people who was in slaved Killed and murder no others can compare
What does breathing when thinking have to do with anything?
I am stupid because blacks were the only people enslaved or killed or murdered (or had genocide committed against them which you go on to mention)
You are completely wrong. There is anthropological evidence to PROVE that there was slavery. there is also geological and anthropological evidence that the 10 plagues may have actually happened. Also, did you just conveniently forget the holocaust were 6 MILLION jews were killed…
How about the trail of tears and the mistreatment of the Native Americans? that was murder and genocide. I hate to make you feel less entitled (in a weird way) but the Native americans were mistreated just as much as the african-americans in US history.
How about the Irish Potato Famine (caused by british policies that had malicious intent towards the irish), or the destruction of the aboriginal tribes in Australia? how about the expulsion of a half a million muslims from Russia in the 1800s and a half a million more killed? How about the Armenian people who were first enslaved by the ottoman’s during the middle ages and then were partially wiped out by Genocide around the time of WWII. Some other Genocides that have occured were in Rwanda, Cambodia, Indonesia, and Guatemala…And these are just genocides and not Murders. What about what Saddam was doing to the Kurds? also genocide.
These are just pretty much examples of genocide. If you insist that the african slavery was genocide, which it wasn’t, it still isn’t the only one. The CPPCG in the UN, which is in charge of defining, recognizing, and stopping genocide does not recognize slavery as a genocide…mostly because it was not with the intent to destroy the slaves and was not deliberate and systematic. In all reality, it would be stupid for a slaveowner to kill his slave because he considered the slave piroperty (though he was wrong) and that would be destroying his own property. There was no attempts to destroy the african slaves, just use their services for their own gain. This is unethical, wrong, and illegal, but not genocide.
And blacks were not the only people that were slaves. Lets disregard the Jews because you disregard anthropological evidence (like inscriptions on the sphynx talking about jewish slaves, or the great building increase during the period the jews were supposedly there without an increase in the working population of ‘egyptians’, or the decline in work after the supposed exit).
Lets look at people we knew have been enslaved. The Ottoman empire employed many slaves and had a very active slave trade, dealing many native people from the lands they conquered including the Assyrian’s and the Armenians. China has had slaves off and on for centuries and Nepal even had slaves as of 1997 and was still sending girls to india for sex slavery (basically the same as normal slavery, but you are forced to be a hooker for no money).
Europeans were enslaved by Vikings. Europeans were enslaved by other Europeans. Some europeans were enslaved by north africans or Ottomans or Moors over the years. In fact, the biggest amount of enslaved people of african descent toiled away in africa. Yes, africans enslaved other africans. It was these africans that the europeans bought their slaves from. It is easy to blame the europeans for the slavery, but they did not enslave the african people. this is a myth purported throughout history. They instead did most of their buying from africans who had taken other africans and enslaved them.
There is much animosity for white europeans, and yes they did keep the slaves, but to them they were property (which I will say again is still not the right way to think). They were not the enslavers, but they were just the people that benefitted from the institution of slavery.
You say that africans were the only enslaved people. That is just not true. America is not the only country with slavery. If you look back through history, pretty much every race, creed, and nationality has been enslaved and pretty much every race, creed, and nationality has owned slaves.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
wow jus wow
wow your an idiot truly a stupid fool , nothing i say matters its like speaking to a ??? dont know u truly are a racist , forget your a waste of time
by Real raptors fan on Jul 27, 2010 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions
wow your an idiot truly a stupid fool
ad hominem? I have tried to avoid it for a long time because it is just not the way to make a point…but you are completely blind to reality.
Do you really believe that blacks were the only people that were enslaved, killed, or had genocide committed against them? that would be the most ignorant thought ever that was caused by only listening to certain propaganda. You just need to open a history textbook or learn any history outside of the continent of africa to know there are people who had it bad too.
dont know u truly are a racist
you see? this is the worst ad hominem you could use. you try to insult me by calling me a racist, which in turn is an attempt to invalidate any of the points I made. However, nothing I said at all comes remotely close to any of the dictionary definitions, or unwritten definitions even, of racism.
Its funny that you seem to find the term “racist” to mean ‘anyone who doesn’t agree with my views as a black man, no matter how little they are grounded in reality or history’. That is not only race baiting, but not at all racist.
What would happen if me, a jew, said that someone who didn’t share my personal views on abortion, was an anti-semite? does that sound ridiculous? yes, but that is the same logic you use to call me a racist.
My opinions on certain races have nothing to do with history. History is not an op-ed, opinion piece. History is based on known facts, archeological evidence, and anthropological evidence. My opinions on races are in fact fine. I do not think that any one race or group of people is superior…because that is racism. I truly do not. You seem to believe in black superiority. However, this is textbook racism.
I guess now i understand how you get such a skewed view of history. You ignore mainstream history and read books that while they may agree with your personal views n biases, are not grounded in much history and fact.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
I’m ignorant wow can u understand can u really and then say Gilbert u can do no wrong.
I am assuming this is dan gilbert. I never said he could do no wrong. I think his letter was a bit immature. He CAN do wrong. You jump to the most radical conclusion from a response that because I say that it is racist and somewhat ignorant to say only blacks can understand slavery, that I am saying that Dan gilbert is perfect.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
ignorant to say only blacks can understand slavery nope , your ignorant
once again i siad only black could trulty understand u dont care to so u dont understand , u dont fight for blacks or discrimination how would u know or care, u look back at a history and feel fine about it and then u learn history which lies to u and helps breaths apartheid ,mentally u dont need proof u eat it up.
what do u care , the whole time u been arguing that my people did not contributed anything in this world u talking about DNA vs what was written in stone , so many evidence proving u and idiot but u still talk bull shit , what do u need a white man to tell it for u, go look they are many Kemet fool Kemet
still not mad but this is my last comment
the nation of Islam made that book and everything in it was recorded in history are true and they are not of Jewish faith , the other book oh lmao 999.9% correct , next your going to tell me about some curse of ham bull shit your a racists okay i said it u can’t be help’t u have only brain washing education that doesn’t let u see anything did u even re read what u wrote wow
by Real raptors fan on Jul 27, 2010 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions
once again i siad only black could trulty understand u dont care to so u dont understand
So because you say only blacks understand racism, it must be true? even though there were TONS of other groups that experienced racism? people like to focus on the racism against black in the south and point out how it was bad, but it was just as bad for jews.
My ancestors couldn’t go into the same establishments yours were not allowed in. If you ‘looked jewish’ you would be asked to leave. There were no jim crow laws against jews but the racism and the discrimination was almost as bad (until about WWII when it improved a bit).
u dont fight for blacks or discrimination how would u know or care
So, because I don’t believe the same skewed views that you do, I don’t fight for blacks? I believe in equal rights for EVERYONE and believe that racism is wrong. stop jumping to conclusions about my character just because you don’t like the history I bring to the table.
u look back at a history and feel fine about it and then u learn history which lies to u and helps breaths apartheid
hopefully, you are not talking about looking back and ‘feeling fine’ about slavery in this country. As I tried to point out, I disagree with it ethically and the earliest any of my ancestors arrived in this country was 1868…5 years after the emancipation proclamation, and none of them lived in the south. I even have family (including my grandma) that participated heavily in the civil rights movement…So I guess I ‘feel fine’ ab out my family’s history in the US because my family supported equality for blacks.
Are you saying that I support apartheid too? yeah. I am sorry I forgot that genocide. It did slip my mind, but I have researched it and think it was a terrible ocourance. However, I personally have no connection to it, but hat it.
the whole time u been arguing that my people did not contributed anything in this world u talking about DNA vs what was written in stone
I am not arguing that there is no history or contribution from the sub-saharan african region. There were great kingdoms during the middle ages that rivaled the kingdoms in europe in many ways. However, it is wrong to say that ‘your people’ are the egyptians. The egyptians did not share a common ancestor with your ancestors. Maybe mine and the egyptians did 10,000 years ago, before they left the Levant region. However I do not have any claim to the egyptian accomplishments, nor should you.
so many evidence proving u and idiot but u still talk bull shit , what do u need a white man to tell it for u, go look they are many Kemet fool Kemet
No…there is a lot of evidence that proves you wrong, but your whole basis if this argument hinges on you are related to the egyptians, and they are ‘black’ because they called their land the ‘black land’. Like I said, egyptians that did not live as much on the Nile River delta called themselves ‘red people’ or ‘people of the red land’ because of the sand. Did that mean that these people were literally red and were not at all related to the ‘black people’? Not at all. thinking that would be foolish.
It is merely an issue of linguistics and someone deciding to ignore WHY the egyptians called themselves ‘black’ and used an alternate linguistic opinion of a word.
Not everything in the book was true. Some of it was taken from actual historical sources but grossly misquoted (to the point where it is something completely different pretty much) or taken completely out of context. They also uses sources of known anti-semitic authors such as Fydor Dostoyevsky. They use KNOWN anti-semites (that aren’t historians) as legitimate, unbiased, historical viewpoints. It criticizes jews for leading the charge against Jeremiah Wright which is a blind accusation with no proof.
It is hard for me to listen to a group write a book about jews and then someone claim it is anti-semitic when the group IS anti-semitic. This is like the religous right finding scientific evidence to prove abortions are actually harmful to the woman. You have to look at the personal bias, and oh does the nation of Islam have a biggie.
This is the same group that claimed, without any proof, that the jews control the economy and thats why all blacks are impoverished. This is completely ridiculous because every single ‘jews control the economy’ or ‘jews control the world’ myth has been debunked. The economy is controlled by the Fed and while the NOI tries to claim he Fed is controlled by Jews, there is no proof of this. In fact, until the 80s (so for 70 years), no Jew had been chairman of the Fed and minimal had been on the Board of Governors. Only greenspan, and recently Bernanke have been jewish and chairman of the fed.
This is the same group that accused other black leaders, not in the NOI, of being controlled bye Jews (with no proof). The same group, that blatantly called the Jews “bloodsuckers” with no basis for it. The NOI has brought in Holocaust Deniers to speak at functions and while they won’t explicitly deny the holocaust, they support people who do. They also pretty much say ‘the jews had it coming’ by saying they supposedly undermined hitler. The NOI has also collaborated Neo-Nazi anti-semitic groups and supported the building of Nuclear weapons in Iran (to destroy israel and possibly would be used to destroy the US).
That is my spiel on why I will not listen to a book about the bad things jews did written by the NOI.
The other book does not have much in the way of historical inaccuracies. Instead, it combines about 15% historical fact with 30% myth and 55% speculation. It is no more ‘history’ than the greek myths (which some were based on a combination of a bit of historical fact with more myth and speculation). It brings up some interesting points but instead of expanding on those with more fact, it speculates things like because one connections may exist, many do exist. None of the research was firsthand and didn’t even use primary sources, but secondary sources. I had to do a term paper in HS where i wasn’t even ALLOWED to use secondary sources. In all honesty, I may have done more in depth research for that this guy did for this book.
next your going to tell me about some curse of ham bull shit
the curse of ham is very rarely, if ever, used to justify wrongdoing for jews. People have speculated this but it really is not all that much used…and again, I am not a racist.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Thank you bross09
for clarifying black “history” for me. I never realized it was so bad.
there is very good history, it is just that the NOI, or the Nation of Islam has preached all this history that just isn’t true.
I dunno if I said it in this comment, but I e-mailed my cousin who is doing her dissertation of jews in the south during the civil war. she said there were slavowning jews…but you could probably count them on one hand. The reasons are:
a) Jews were not particularly widespread in the US at that point, especially in the south
b) Jews were less common (mostly because they tended to be poorer at the time) to own slaves than other whites
c) The common misconseption is that everyone owned slaves in the south and they were all on big plantations. This is not true. Only 1/4% of people owned at least 50 slaves, and only .05% owned at least 100. Also, these people owned most of the slaves. That 1/4% owned 1/4 of all slaves and close to 60% of all slaves were owned by owners with 20 or more slaves (which usually meant some sort of small plantation). A vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves, and was close to 80-85% that didn’t at the time of the Civil war (only 1/3 of people owned slaves at the peak of slave ownership).
Just more of an example of skewing history.
Like I said, I have no problem with black history as long as the purpose is not a ‘feel good’ story to make people feel more special and connected to cultures than they are. Real history if fine, but the stuff this guy is talking about is pseudohistory at best. the stuff written by the NOI is just flat out lies and I just can’t respect anyone (I am sorry) who believes some of this stuff so religiously.
NOI disgusts me. Malcolm X was the only leader in the NOI I respect, but he broke off because he didn’t totally agree with some of their radical views and the Nation of Islam murdered him. It was spun as some white on black crime, but in reality it was his own brothers.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Unfortunately, I haven’t met up with any “real” history when it comes to black history. It troubles me. A lot. That’s why I was fascinated to read your expose in the context of the Lebron story. So again, thanks.
yeah…what kind of response is this?
You have nothing to say except pretty much saying my history is laughable. Sorry, I got if from people doing their dissertations in these areas. I think I would trust someone with a PHD in the history around the time of the Civil war over louis Farrakhan.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
lmao
i gave u people with a Phd’s in history like the late Dr Henry Clarke and other some books , u still made up up things , lol told me he had a agenda lol what else u want me to say when u comparing Jews in 1900 to slaver which is funny, your hock on phonics , i know your history and it started in Europe sorry son , that’s why you call your self a Jew , not Hebrew or an Israelite, u dont even know that , please learn real history not apartheid history which u embrace like breathing , yes , Honorable Louis Farrakhan is very smart that’s why he;s honorable , why people wont argue with him or and then try to taking his words out of context is funny, hes a politician at heart but will tell u the truth , that why people listen to him , u discredit him cause he strong , intelligent, wise and powerful, he never took over a country or killed people in the name of god , so why hate on him , maybe cause he tell people not to forget that there consciousness is more than a middle passages which u twist or try to twist to benefit your way of thinking , And i keep sayin I’m done but u keep bring back lol
by Real raptors fan on Jul 30, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
i gave u people with a Phd’s in history like the late Dr Henry Clarke and other some books , u still made up up things
First of all, this shows how little you know about the own information you put forth. by Henry Clark I am assuming you mean John Henrik Clarke. A little tidbit about him. He is not a Dr and never received a college degree. He was completely self-educated. The other books were 1, written by a group with an obvious bias against Jews in general. The other is a semi-sholarly work written by a semi-educated writer.
hat else u want me to say when u comparing Jews in 1900 to slaver which is funny, your hock on phonics
I never compared Jews in 1900 to slavery. it really seems you can never understand what I write and have a serious comprehension problem. My only point about Jews in any sort of recent history was to point out it was a complete falsehood that they were the type of slaveowners you make them out to be. you can pretty much count the jewish slaveowners in this country on one hand.
So that whole thing about ‘jewish slaveowners’ written by scholarly people from the NOI is just anti-semitic propaganda. this comes from my cousin who is a professor on Jewish history and Jewish studies and in fact specializes in Jews in the south during the 1800s. I will say her expertise trumps anything you bring to the table.
i know your history and it started in Europe sorry son , that’s why you call your self a Jew , not Hebrew or an Israelite, u dont even know that
yeah, so because I call myself a jew, i am from europe and can’t trace my ancestors back in the Diaspora? it doesn’t matter what I call myself. My family has been jewish for Centuries and if I took a Y-Chromosome Haplope test, it would show me that my genes are more closely related to those of the people of the middle-east than that of Europe.
please learn real history not apartheid history which u embrace like breathing
What apartheid history? you keep saying that. I understand the apartheid and it was horrible and did a report on it. what history do I say, is apartheid history? any stuff that disagrees with what you say?
Honorable Louis Farrakhan is very smart that’s why he;s honorable ,
so you believe him to be smart and appeal to authority and say he must be honorable because he is smart? The problem with the general stupidity of humans is they assume anyone who is considered ‘smart’ also knows all, is an expert, and is honorable. Look up the Milgram experiment, which is where they got someone pretend to be an ‘honorable doctor’ and they convinced people to give almost lethal shocks to complete strangers (amost 50% did…but the shocks weren’t real and the people being shocked and the doctors were actors)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
first of John Henrik Clarke (January 1, 1915 – July 16, 1998), born John Henry Clark, was a Pan-Africanist American writer, historian, professor, and a pioneer in the creation of Africana studies and professional institutions in academia starting in the late 1960s.
He was Professor of African World History and in 1969 founding chairman of the Department of Black and Puerto Rican Studies at Hunter College of the City University of New York. He also was the Carter G. Woodson Distinguished Visiting Professor of African History at Cornell University’s Africana Studies and Research Center. In 1968 along with the Black Caucus of the African Studies Association, Clarke founded the African Heritage Studies Association.
A self-educated intellectual, Clarke documented the histories and contributions of African peoples in Africa and the diaspora, creating an Afrocentric perspective.
by Real raptors fan on Jul 31, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
He challenged traditional academic history as an outsider, and helped shift the way African history was studied and taught. Clarke was “a scholar devoted to redressing what he saw as a systematic and racist suppression and distortion of African history by traditional scholars.” When some of the scholarship he championed was dismissed by traditional historians, Clarke accused them of their own biases in promoting Eurocentric views. While some of his views were controversial, Clarke did create a framework for studies of the history of Africa and the diaspora of its peoples.3
by Real raptors fan on Jul 31, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
u still say nothing about
The Honorable Louis Farrakhan , why u hating on the man , what did he do to u ? is he lair , talking about what history done to black and taken it out of context ? did he kill people in the name of god ? are u of faith or politics and why should i believe u over my people who give me and showed and still have evidence, but if i do believe u, with what you’ve have been saying, would that be right ? its not always a white vs black thing people make it out to be, its is just the truth some people don’t like to hear
U didn’t prove anything about Dr Clarke only that many PHD in every level of history have agreed with him over and over again , cause u can’t take it ,u try to belittle him as unproven and that’s sad, he was a great man of character and knowledge he stood for truth and only truth but i don’t need to tell u that go look it up and to others who read this cause this was never a private conversation u all need to relearn history and read a book that contours to the norm and make your own decision , cause they always tell u only what u like to hear and after that read some more , i couldn’t understand if u were talking to me or trying to making people think u know what u are talking about , and theirs more than just Egypt in Africa , they also traveled to china and been in north America and traded with the natives before European where there’s and theres evidence on that to but why didn’t most people hear about this? now that’s a good question
by Real raptors fan on Aug 1, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
is he lair , talking about what history done to black and taken it out of context
yeah. He misrepresented history to fit his views that the Jews control the Fed, the FBI, and the CIA. I am not talking about what he has said about black history, even though much of that is factually incorrect (including the NOI book he likely comissioned that called jews ‘slaveowners’ when I could easily count the number of slaveowning jews on one hand).
did he kill people in the name of god
you can argue Malcolm X…but that one is very debatable.
are u of faith or politics and why should i believe u over my people who give me and showed and still have evidence,
well, there you have it. you have been significantly ingulfed in the NOI. the NOI has been putting out ‘pseudohistory’ for years that is rejected by every single person who is specialized and trained in history and historical documentation.
but if i do believe u, with what you’ve have been saying, would that be right
you can believe what I say, but you have to look at these situations logically.
Logically, if you had no connection to the NOI, who should you trust: the NOI, a group accused many times of anti-semitism, who says that there were many jewish Slaveowners; or a professor with a PHD who did their dissertation on Jews in the south during the civil War period? I would have to go with the person with the PHD, but you go with the NOI evidence.
Which is more suitable evidence to prove that Egyptians are really middle easterns? the fact that they are part of africa and your leaders insist that makes them african, or DNA evidence which conclusively shows their close relation to the people of the Levant Region? I would say objectively, it would be the DNA evidence.
However, you will never choose any of these evidences that an objective person would choose, b/c you are not objective. you are clearly biased and cannot remove yourself from your bias long enough to objectively view the evidence at hand.
hey also traveled to china and been in north America and traded with the natives before European where there’s and theres evidence on that to but why didn’t most people hear about this
really? there is evidence of this? I would honestly like to see that. ‘evidence’ is not ancedotal to be real, but factual. if Farrakhan, a politician at heart, said these things in a speech or any time in public, that is not evidence to their factual accuracy. However, if this is true factual history that has been uncovered and has sources, then that is good evidence. If there is the latter, I would like to see it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
hey also traveled to china and been in north America and traded with the natives before European where there’s and theres evidence on that to but why didn’t most people hear about this
learn african histroy look up i forgot the books name but the arther Ivan Van sertma but he has a aganda to so
what are u talking a the hornable louise Farrakhan he didn’t say that but yea its all true blacks in westen asia china there are books on it read that book lots to be uncovered if your willing , or beleive what ever u wan’t to
by Real raptors fan on Aug 4, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
actually, sertima was biased and kind of crap. He researched africa and came up with a god that had some similarities to the ancient god Olmec from Mexico. he claimed because the artwork had some similarities to Nubian artwork, the africans must have been there. However, that is extremely loose correlative evidence and correlative evidence proves nothing.
He completely ignored all the research done in Central America up until that point. he was highly criticized from that wing of research in the field of anthropology. he made ludicrous claims about regions without researching them or consulting researchers who were experts…so yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had an agenda.
Farrakhan he didn’t say that
so well documented quotes that I bring up from Farrakhan he never said? does the NOI have an army of Farrakhan robots they send out just so they can say ‘oh, he never said that’? I didn’t know we had that sort of technology…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
you know
when you are going to copy and paste other peoples work you should really atleast give them credit for it. Its called plagiarism.
Its pretty easy to tell what you have written and what you have copied
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 1, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
this was
not directed at bross09
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 1, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I figured it out using the up button. I could give a bibliography of where i learned stuff, but I never directly copied.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
i'll leave foot notes then
if it makes people happier
by Real raptors fan on Aug 4, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
thats funny
u didn’t say the same thing to him and where did i steal people work to show my point and have giving there names , i thought i have wow
by Real raptors fan on Aug 4, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I know that. you insisted that John Henrik clarke was a DR. and received a doctorate. you kept calling him a doctor when he received no formal doctorate, so you are adding on a title to authority which is not there and then appealing to that authority…a double fallacy.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
ok out of Repect i call him DR Clarke Fine
John Henrik Clarke: Historian, Scholar, and Teacher
That a doctor to me , Cornell University he as a libary in african history name after him RIP Sir Aand Thank u wich u were here to school to fool for me but thats why your a teacher left it for me to teach other peace
by Real raptors fan on Aug 4, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
From http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/clarke/
http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Images/Clarke.jpg
John Henrik Clarke
(1915-1998)
In 1986, the Africana Library was named in honor of John Henrik Clarke, who was widely recognized as a pioneer in the field of Africana Studies. Dr. Clarke played an important role in the early history of Cornell University’s Africana Studies & Research Center. He was a Distinguished Visiting Professor of African History at the Center in the 1970s. He also made an invaluable contribution to the establishment of its curricula.
Dr. Clarke is the author of numerous articles that have appeared in leading scholarly journals. He also served as the author, contributor, or editor of 24 books. In 1968 along with the Black Caucus of the African Studies Association, Dr. Clarke founded the African Heritage Studies Association. In 1969 he was appointed as the founding chairman of the Black and Puerto Rican Studies Department at Hunter College in New York City.
Dr. Clarke was most known and highly regarded for his lifelong devotion to studying and documenting the histories and contributions of African peoples in Africa and the diaspora.
Dr. Clarke is often quoted as stating that “History is not everything, but it is a starting point. History is a clock that people use to tell their political and cultural time of day. It is a compass they use to find themselves on the map of human geography. It tells them where they are, but more importantly, what they must be.”
by Real raptors fan on Aug 4, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
(crap. Didn’t finish)
I don’t see how intelligence makes someone infallible, especially in character. I can give a lot of examples to the contrary. Aldrich Ames: Brilliant CIA agent, who was an agent for the Russians and was passing gov’t info to them. Thomas Edison was a genius but took credit/stole multiple inventions. Maxamilien Robespierre was brilliant and led the french revolution but got drunk with power and turned bad. Bobby Fischer was ridiculously brilliant but definitely wasn’t honorable in later life. Plus, every person who committed mass genocide had to be smart because they were in general sociopaths and sociopaths have a good amount of intelligence combined with a lack of empathy or emotion.
why people wont argue with him or and then try to taking his words out of context is funny,
Even when people take his words in context its out of context?
And you do with me as is written, but remember that I have warned you that Allah will punish you. You are wicked deceivers of the American people. You have sucked their blood. You are not real Jews, those of you that are not real Jews. You are the synagogue of Satan, and you have wrapped your tentacles around the U.S. government, and you are deceiving and sending this nation to hell. But I warn you in the name of Allah, you would be wise to leave me alone. But if you choose to crucify me, know that Allah will crucify you.
he goes on to say
<blockquoteI called them [Jews] bloodsuckers. I’m not going to change that. Our lessons talk about the bloodsuckers of the poor in the Supreme Wisdom of the Nation of Islam. It’s that old no-good Jew, that old imposter Jew, that old hooked-nose, bagel-eating, lox-eating, Johnny-come-lately perpetrating a fraud, just crawled out of the caves and hills of Europe, so-called damn Jew. . . and I feel everything I’m saying up here is kosherblockquote>
He ADMITS its not out of context and goes on to show himself to be as anti-semitic as any Neo-Nazi out there.
“The same year they set up the IRS, they set up the FBI. And the same year they set up the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai Brith…It could be a coincidence…[I want] to see Black intellectuals free…I want to see them not controlled by members of the Jewish community
he speculates that because a jewish group that is against anti-semitism and defamation (and this group does not get along with him for some fairly obvious reasons) is founded the same year as the FBI and CIA and the IRS that the Jews have control over these and the Federal Reserve.
Hate to break it to ya, but none of these years line up. The IRS was around in some form back to the Civil War era, however it was first called the IRS in 1918 and then first formed as an official federal agency known as the IRS (pretty much just a name change) in 1953. The FBI was founded in 1908, but you could also point to 1932 when the Current facilities were opened, or 1935 when J. Edgar Hoover became the first Director of the FBI. The ADL was founded in 1913. The CIA was formed n 1947, based off of the OSS which was formed in 1942. None of these groups were FORMED within 5 years of each other. He might be a smart guy, but he is speculating and making up history to suit his anti-semitic desires.
German Jews financed Hitler right here in America…International bankers financed Hitler and poor Jews died while big Jews were at the root of what you call the Holocaust…Little Jews died while big Jews made money. Little Jews [were] being turned into soap while big Jews washed themselves with it. Jews [were] playing violin, Jews [were] playing music, while other Jews [were] marching into the gas chambers..
I know where he got it from. A writer, Gary Allen. He doesn’t even come up with his own stuff and should probably double check the sources if he blatantly borrowed such Ideas. Allen didn’t check his sources either, because in his book, he blatantly lied about Jewish contributions to hitler, (by getting information that a bank owned by a jew handled the account of multiple people who gave to hitler, but then using this information to assert the bank funed hitler).
intelligent, wise and powerful, he never took over a country or killed people in the name of god
how is this relevant? the jews didn’t do this either really.
u discredit him cause he strong , intelligent, wise and powerful
Nope. i don’t trust him because he has an obvious bias, tells blatant lies, and is extremely anti-semitic. Maybe you may think all of the quotes, taken in context (even him admitting they are) are out of context.
How do you explain the fact that he has constantly associated with known holocaust deniers and invited them to speak? the holocaust is HISTORY and these people like the Institute for Historical Review try to deny it (and they are funded by Neo-Nazi groups). NOI members and speakers have quoted Holocaust Denial groups and organizations and quote them on websites. These groups also link to the NOI page from their website and quote the NOI. I am sorry I cannot trust a group that is considered ‘quoteworthy’ by revisionist historians.
They also had a good relationship with Lyndon Larouche, a ridiculous conspiracy theorist and anti-semite who alleged such things as the Jews owning all the drug cartels and funding islamic terrorists. He even accuses the queen of england of being a drug Kingpin. He worked a lot with the NOI and they borrowed ideas from each other.
The NOI has also had Neo-Nazi’s, such as Tom Metzger, speak at functions. They have also agreed with Neo-Nazis that their common enemy are the jews. White supremacists have been praising the NOI for years for their work at trying to destroy the Jews.
I guess I understand why you pretty much keep calling me a racist. you really think so highly of Farrakhan and you obviously have a bias and a deep connection to the NOI. I know now that this is why it is impossible to argue with your complete ignorance.
Did you know that the NOI killed Malcolm X? they tried to spin it as the whites did it (or at one point that the jews did) but its pretty clear that the NOI at some level had some sort of involvement. the men convicted of shooting him were members of the NOI…one that got paroled is actually head of a Mosque in Harlem.
Elijah Muhammad pretty much said he got what he deserve and Farrakhan said “Was Malcolm your traitor or ours? And if we dealt with him like a nation deals with a traitor, what the hell business is it of yours? A nation has to be able to deal with traitors and cutthroats and turncoats!”. All of this hate just for deciding that the NOI was not completely what he agreed with (Elijah’s extramarital affairs and using NOI money to cover it up combined with Elijah’s jealousy of his publicity and EM forcing him out). They threatened him publicly and said he should be killed, while great amounts of members of the NOI sent him death threats and bombed his home the day before he was supposed to be evicted. It is clear that on some level (though its not clear how far up it goes) that the NOI was involved in the Malcolm X murder.
I cannot take the ideas and ‘history’ put out by the NOI seriously. the new NOI under Farrakhan is more fundamentalist and anti-semitic than under Elijah Muhammad. the American Society of Muslims is a very respectable association that does not attack other races…you should look into it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
anti-semitic u dont even know what that means
or who or what it relates to , i don’t believe in hate and if he killed Malcolm why didn’t the FBI arrest him and so on ,
-He’s not perfect in what he say’s but aw whatever look it up Relationship between blacks and Jews
Elijah Muhammad aw had wives which he did wrong , and he’s human , not Jesus
marten Luther king cheated on he wife so nobody character perfect except one men which i guess u don’t believe in Yahweh
and stop throwing anti-semitic here and there , what happen in Germany was truly wrong but it was a European problem and shouldn’t had nothing to do with Palestine look up Balfour declaration
before go on i’ll stop myself wtih that cause u never know Benjamen h freeman dis’ credit him to cause hes’ lying about everything explain khazria Ashkenaz for me cause i dont understand and dont call me a anit-semitic cause of my question, and i well say anybody can be jew if they wan’t to , but if your going to say that the same european jew of today people are the jews of the bible that not true at all cause they were ethnic and had no Europeaness , repeat Black , brown , oriental , now Jesus had color two, white hair like sheep ,skin like dark bronze color and eyes of fire , Mose was black god turn Mose hand to leopard snow then turn it back to show him he was god and married an Ethiopian and god turn his sister white for i think couple of day 7 she stayed in the wilderness for not trusting Moses like when u come out your mother at child birth they put it , it wouldnt have matter a diffence if she was white to put like that or god doing so , if u dont beleive me , i have a bible to , oh did u know Alexander the great is in the bible , they took him out ? if color dont matter then why do people ahve a problem with the fact of color in the bible , all religion has politics, casue of people genital or Jew or Islam or etc. god love all we must fellow truth not politics
by Real raptors fan on Aug 1, 2010 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
i don’t believe in hate and if he killed Malcolm why didn’t the FBI arrest him
btw, I am not saying he did, but there was definitely NOI involvement at some level, whether it went all the way to the top to EM, or if it was just a couple of worshipers at a Mosque who killed him…the evidence was there and the connection is there. Plus, does the FBI ALWAYS arrest the person who did these things, even with sufficient evidence? no. And like I pointed out, there was not sufficient evidence to link it to any ranking official of the NOI.
Relationship between blacks and Jews
you are bringing THIS unfactual book up again?
marten Luther king cheated on he wife so nobody character perfect except one men which i guess u don’t believe in Yahweh
I do believe in god…nice assumption man. You also completely missed the point. Elijah was human and I don’t care about the Affairs. However, this is what made Malcolm X split off from the church, and not just the affairs, but the embezzlement by EM to cover it up.
and stop throwing anti-semitic here and there , what happen in Germany was truly wrong but it was a European problem and shouldn’t had nothing to do with Palestine
Nope…It was a WORLD problem. this was a WORLD WAR and over 12 innocent people were killed through Genocide.
And it itself has nothing to do with palestine, but radical palestinian groups have shown that they have the potential to be just as bad. ‘Palestine’ isn’t bad, how come Hammas has vowed to wipe jews off the face of the Earth (and America btw), not just Israel? that sounds like threats at genocide to me, or vowing to finish Hitler’s work. Palestinians and other Middle east radical groups have embraced Holocaust deniers, people who dislike the jewish people and use this dislike to distort factual history to defame the jews. The scary part is, that the NOI not only has connections to Nazi’s, but Holocaust deniers, and Arab radicals such as Achmedinijad.
explain khazria Ashkenaz for me cause i dont understand
its okay, the question itself is not anti-semitic but many of the people who believe its pseudo-history are.
the Khazars are the nomadic people of turkey. During the 8th Century about, the Turkish royalty converted to Judaism and many of the citizens did too. There is a theory that the Ashkenazic jews of Europe were just descendants of these jews. However no legitimate historian or scholarly source has supported it.
Also, the recent DNA studies that have come out in the last decade that I mention, also almost completely disprove it. They show that the Ashkenazic jews are genetically different than the turkish people and their closest genetic ancestors are the jordanians, Syrians, and Lebanese; the 3 countries surrounding the modern state of Israel. Khazar jews are almost identical in the Y Haplope to the Turkish people, not surprisingly since they were the Khazars ancestors. However, the turkish people probably shared a common ancestor with the other people from the region at some point since their DNA is somewhat similar to the Middle east in Y-Haplope’s (or they could be a Mix between ME, and European DNA since they are in between the two).
but if your going to say that the same european jew of today people are the jews of the bible that not true at all cause they were ethnic and had no Europeaness
the jews of Today are primarily ashkenazic jews, at least the ones you see in America. They do look, in skin tone, similar to their European counterparts, but that is not an accurate judge. like I said, there is DNA evidence. Jews today are also higher risk than their european counterparts at being carriers for TS disease or Crohns. They look european but look is fairly subjective whereas DNA points to them not at all being related to europeans but much more related to the people in the Area where the jewish people originally lived.
I don’t get what Moses marrying an ethiopian had to do with anything (though this is quite possible but is historically disputed). Ethiopians are actually much more related genetically to Egyptians than sub-Saharan africans. they are darker than Egyptians, but color is fairly subjective. Its possible, they lived in the Levant region but moved out of the region over 10,000 years ago and through evolution, their pigment color changed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/figure/F2/
Yes, we should follow truth, and not politics. I do believe that.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your so funny but i'll end this with the great man himself cause your funny
AFRICAN FUNDAMENTALISM
by The Hon. Marcus Mosiah Garvey
The time has come for the Blackman to forget and cast behind him his hero worship and adoration of other races, and to start out immediately to create and emulate heroes of his own. We must canonize our own martyrs and elevate to positions of fame and honor Black men and women who have made their distinct contributions to our racial history.
Sojourner Truth is worthy of sainthood alongside of Joan of Arc. Crispus Attucks and George William Gordon are entitled to the halo of martyrdom with no less glory than that of the martyrs of any other race. Jacques Deselines’ and Moshesh’s brilliancy as soldiers and statesmen outshone that of a Cromwell, Napoleon, or Washington: hence they are entitled to the highest place as heroes among men.
Africa has produced countless numbers of men and women, in war and in peace, whose lustre and bravery outshines that of any other people. Then why not see good and perfection in ourselves? We must inspire a literature and promulgate a doctrine of our own without any apologies to the powers that be. The right is the Blackman’s and Africa’s. Let contrary sentiments and cross opinions go to the winds. Oppositions to Race Independence is the weapon of the enemy to defeat the hopes of an unfortunate people.
We are entitled to our own opinions and not obligated to or bound by the opinions of others. If others laugh at you return the laughter to them; if they mimic you return the compliment with equal force. They have no more right to dishonor, disrespect or disregard your feelings and manhood than you have in dealing with them. Honor them when they honor you; disregard them when they vilely treat you. Their arrogance is but skin deep and an assumption that has no foundation in morals or in Law.
They have sprung from the same family tree of obscurity as we have; their history is as rude in its primitiveness as ours, their ancestors ran wild and naked, lived in caves and in branches of trees like monkeys as ours; they made sacrifices, ate the flesh of their own dead and the raw meat of wild beasts for centuries even as they accuse us of doing. Their cannibalism was more prolonged than ours; when we were embracing the Arts and Sciences on the banks of the Nile, their ancestors were still drinking human blood and eating out of the skulls of their conquered dead.
When our civilization had reached the noon-day of progress, they were still running naked and sleeping in holes and caves with rats, bats, and other insects and animals. After we had already unfathomed the mystery of the Stars and reduced the Heavenly Constellations to minute and regular calculus they were still backwoodsmen, living in ignorance and blatant darkness.
The world today is indebted to us for the benefits of civilization. They stole our Arts and Sciences from Africa. Then why should we be ashamed of ourselves? Their modern improvements are but duplicates of a grander civilization that we reflected thousands of years ago; without the advantage of what is buried and still hidden, to be resurrected and reintroduced by the intelligence of our generation and our posterity.
Why should we be discouraged because somebody laughs at us today? Who can tell what tomorrow will bring forth? Did they not laugh at Moses, Christ, and Mohammed? Was there not a CARTHAGE, GREECE and ROME? We see and have changes everyday; so plan, work, be steadfast and do not be dismayed. As the Jew is held together by his religion, the white races by the assumption and the unwritten law of superiority, and the Mongolian by the precious tie of blood; so likewise the Blackman must be UNITED in one grand RACIAL HIERARCHY. Our union must know no climate, boundary or nationality.
BLACK MEN THE WORLD OVER MUST PRACTICE ONE FAITH, THAT OF CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES, WITH: ONE CAUSE, ONE GOAL, ONE DESTINY.
Let no religious scruples, no political machination divide us, but let us hold together under all climates and in every country; making among ourselves a RACIAL EMPIRE upon which, “The Sun shall never set.”
Let no voice but your own speak to you from the depths; let no influence but your own rouse you in time of peace and time of war. Hear all but attend only to that which concerns you, your allegiance shall be to your Race, then to your family and your Country. Remember always that the Jew in his political and economic urge is always first a Jew, the white is first a white man under all circumstances; and you can do no less than being first and always a Blackman; then all else will take care of itself. Let no one inoculate you with evil doctrines to suit their conveniences. There’s no humanity before that which starts with yourself, “CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.” First to thyself be true and thou canst not then be false to any man.
NATURE first made us what we are and then out of our own creative genius we make ourselves what we want to be. Follow always that GREAT LAW. Let the SKY be your limit, and Eternity our Measurement. There’s no height to which we cannot climb by using the active intelligence of our own mind. Mind creates, and as much as we desire in NATURE, we can have through the creation of our own minds. Being at present the scientifically weaker Race, you shall treat others only as they treat you, but in your homes and everywhere possible you must teach the higher development of science to your children; and be sure to develop a RACE of SCIENTISTS par excellence, for in Science and NATIONALISM lie our only hope to withstand the evil designs of modern materialism.
Never forget your Cause. REMEMBER! We live, work and plan for the establishment of a great and binding RACIAL HIERARCHY; the founding of a RACIAL EMPIRE whose only natural, spiritual and political limits shall be: LIBERTY FOR AFRICANS, AT HOME AND ABROAD.
by Real raptors fan on Aug 4, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
okay…you just quoted something called ‘african fundamentalism’ and I usually disregard things that have fundamentalism in them (like the christian fundamentalist who believe we existed side by side with dinosaurs…and Hamas…for examples)
Sojourner Truth is worthy of sainthood alongside of Joan of Arc. Crispus Attucks and George William Gordon are entitled to the halo of martyrdom with no less glory than that of the martyrs of any other race. Jacques
I do not believe Sojourner truth is worthy of sainthood, though she is a great person. I also do not believe Joan of Arc to be worthy and may be the least worthy. Its not a valid argument to point out the least worthy saint and say ‘oh, sojourner truth is just as worthy’, that makes me think she isn’t worthy enough b/c of my opinion of Joan of Arc.
Attucks is a bit overdone IMO. he was probably a decent person, but he is made out to be this person who was always fighting for the revolution. Aside being killed in the boston Massacre, there was never any evidence he was even against the british. Some accounts even point to him basically being an innocent bystander…is every innocent bystander thats killed in a massacre a ‘martyr’? if so, we are setting our bar a little low on that word. Plus, in case you didn’t know, he was not fully black and part native american. I don’t know much about Gordon
Jacques Deselines’ and Moshesh’s brilliancy as soldiers and statesmen outshone that of a Cromwell, Napoleon, or Washington:
I am sorry, but this is false. I did extensive research in HS on the Haitian revolution and wrote a 10 page paper on it. I did the kind of research historians often do. I know about Dessalines. He was a good man and a good leader, but as a statesman, he can’t even hold the jockstrap of Alexander Hamilton, Washington, or any of the other major founding fathers of the US.
Moshesh was a solid statesman and a good General. However he fails to mention also Shaka Zulu who was almost as good of a diplomat and statesman but a much better and more revolutionary general.
Their cannibalism was more prolonged than ours; when we were embracing the Arts and Sciences on the banks of the Nile, their ancestors were still drinking human blood and eating out of the skulls of their conquered dead.
…just factually incorrect.
After we had already unfathomed the mystery of the Stars and reduced the Heavenly Constellations to minute and regular calculus they were still backwoodsmen, living in ignorance and blatant darkness.
you know…fighting the stereotypes of africans by accusing the europeans of the same and not having any factual basis solves nothing.
Their modern improvements are but duplicates of a grander civilization that we reflected thousands of years ago;
…and the idea that ‘all european thought and progress was stolen from egypt’ is a myth and fallacy.
the white races by the assumption and the unwritten law of superiority, and the Mongolian by the precious tie of blood
…back to the stereotypes for garvey. he assumes that every white person has this bond of superiority over black people. maybe several hundred years ago this was true, but that is extremely dated because most of this thought process died long ago. Also, I have met someone from mongolia, he is not a bloodthirsty person who wears ‘a tie of blood’.
so likewise the Blackman must be UNITED in one grand RACIAL HIERARCHY
So here, he is saying all black people must unite and rule over everyone else…doesn’t this sound a bit like racial superiority? doesn’t this sound like the aryan race dominating? these ideas lead down a very slippery slope. There should be racial equality. you don’t solve the problems with putting one race on top, that causes more problems.
RACIAL EMPIRE upon which, "The Sun shall never set."
you mean like hitlers ‘final solution’ to have a world ruled by the Aryan race and the Aryan race having control over the world and the ‘sun never setting’ on it? yeah, these ideas sound more and more dangerous.
First to thyself be true and thou canst not then be false to any man.
nope…you can be true to yourself and a liar at the same time.
RACE of SCIENTISTS
how about scientists of all races working together, or would Marcus Garvey not like that?
for in Science and NATIONALISM
hopefully, these things are mutually independent. Nationalism driving science is not good because it results in bad science like hitler put out about the jews to give an excuse to do ‘ethnic cleansing’ or what the russians did to convince people to wipe out the armenians. Science driving nationalism can be dangerous to in the same way. they are both good, but best if left separate.
and plan for the establishment of a great and binding RACIAL HIERARCHY; the founding of a RACIAL EMPIRE
so this is garvey’s final solution???…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
THE FU--
STEVE CARRELL IS LEAVING THE OFFICE
my life is over.
Fan of :
Toronto Raptors
Arizona Cardinal
Kansas Jayhawks
Well it’s not like LeBron has “loyalty” tatooed on his chest or anything. Oh wait.
Look, he left, and that was his right, but the way he did it was just stupid, and it’s not surprising he pissed everyone off.
Sports, at its best is evokes a loyalty from fans that is akin to being in a romantic relationship, in that you start to identify the team as a part of you. The millionaire athlete entertainers who work on these teams (under rather convoluted collective bargaining agreements, yes, but they can quit the game any time they want to go do anything else they want – calling them slaves is asinine), on some level, are just employees and where their contracts allow it are free to make choices, based on whatever criteria they like – financial, personal, family based, where they want to live, whatever. But the reason they get paid millions of dollars, rather than just tens of thousands like the rest of us, is because their job is to have the inhabitants of a city identify with them, and play out their fantasy life through them. So these athletes, shouldn’t be surprised when their audience invests their egos in them a little (especially if they are very successful).
The bottom line is that LeBron wasn’t just moving from one equivalent career track to another, he was “breaking up” with Cleveland, a town that had come to Love him (and yeah, that’s pretty much capital-L Love). And if you’ve been in a long relationship with someone and you still care about them on some level, you don’t break up with them by saying “look I have to do what’s best for me, and I’ve found someone better.” You just don’t. There’s no way for them NOT to read that as a kick in the teeth. LeBron didn’t have to play it that way, but he did.
He could have gone on about how much he loved Cleveland, he could have said “but I’m 25 and I only have a couple more years of peak performance in me, and I can’t turn down the chance to play with two of the greatest players of my generation. It breaks my heart, I tried to bring the other two to Cleveland, but I couldn’t do it, so blame me for that Cleveland. But I’m just one guy and I can’t turn down a chance like this – even if it means I have to leave home to do it. But Ohio will always be my home.”
They would still have been mad, of course, but they wouldn’t be feeling nearly as betrayed and punched in the neck. But he didn’t have the interpersonal smarts to pull that off. Instead he sat in front of the camera and said “yeah, this is tough, but it’s all about me, and God is cool with that. So forget you Celeveland, out with the old, in with the new.” And the reaction was predictably hostile. Just zero emotional intelligence on the part of him (which as a 25 year old guy is understandable) and his handlers (which is unforgivable – he needs competent PR people stat).
While this is about disloyalty in Cleveland and is based upon emotions rather than reasoning Lebron did this to himself and to blame anyone but Lebron would be wrong. While you talk about The Office, think about how an Office is structured. The oss is solely responsible for any actions his employees do, just like Lebron is responsible for his PR people he hired them and he has to succeed or fail by their ‘decisions’. Having teams fly in to see you, host an espn special and start a twitter account. It was all about publicity.
What has turned the average fan on Lebron is that he expects us to by into him. If it was about winning as he claims can you tell me that a team featuring Derrick Rose, Luol Deng, Noah, Boozer and a bench featuring Taj Gibson, James Johnson. Plus whoever they could sign with veteran’s minimum etc. He could of also gone to Nets along with another big name, Harris, Lee, Lebron, Amare, Brook. Or the Thunder, if he had of called up the OKC thunder who had the cap room and wanted to sign with them…how is that not the best starting line up with KD, Bron, Westbrook, Green, and a great group of role players. Or if it was really about championships why not sign for the mid-level with the Lakers. There were plenty of other options for Lebron other than going to the Heat that would of given him a better chance to win a title.
If you do not believe it was a better publicity, just watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAbwk361bM&feature=related
I think what bothers most people about this more than the fact that Lebron James left Cleveland is the fact that we watched aplyer who may be the most dominating physical player in the history of the nba, give up on greatness. The Cleveland Cavaliers have brought in Mo Williams who was an all star, Shaq who was an all star the previous year, antawn jamison who had averaged 20/8 (5 years straight) and could stretch the floor. The Cavaliers did everything they could to surround Lebron James with quality players and it was still not enough. Yet Lebron James wants to be known as King James or the Choosen One, he isn’t even the King of Miami, he is a prince their next to wade. If he really was the Choosen One (Which is tattooed on his back) would he need the help of Wade and Bosh. True greatness is never backing away from a challenge but Lebron did everything he could to avoid it. While he may end up winning championships in Miami (MAY, because nothing is guaranteed) he will never be in the same category as Mike, Bird, Kobe and Magic. We can compare him to Pippen, Drexler and James Worthy but is that who we thought Lebron James would be. I think for the average fan this is a let down and thats what is upsetting, we thought we had a chance to watch someone special, maybe not Mike or Magic, Kobe or Bird but someone who when his career was done would be in that conversation, an athlete who we feel privileged to watch. While you may not have liked him or his game in Cleveland every fan knew we may never see another Lebron and we wanted to see how great he could be. Now we are all left wondering what could of been.
Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen. Michael Jordan
The difference between Mike and James is quite simple, Michael did not accept failure as an option. When he came into the nba he couldn’t shoot but when he finished his career he was an above average three point shooter and a great mid range shooter. When Lebron came into the NBA he bought into his own hype and for seven years he hasnt lived up to it. Unlike Mike he couldn’t make it happen on the court, so he did it in free agency. While people may be disappointed in that what upsets them is the lack of respect his gives to the fans, these are the people that pay his salary and let him take his talent to South Beach…i mean the Miami Heat. Because as Lebron has said "I don’t need too much. Glamour and all that stuff don’t excite me. I am just glad I have the game of basketball in my life."
Wow
I’m happy some of you have enjoyed my post. It wasn’t meant at all to be a black/white thing. I think the whole ‘slave’ thing is being blown out of proportion, but that’s just my opinion.
BTW, I posted this same article on the SB Nation Cavs fan site, and they’re hating big time. Bitter, bitter fans.
BTW, I posted this same article on the SB Nation Cavs fan site, and they’re hating big time. Bitter, bitter fans.
dude…way to spin the truth…People aren’t just hatin’, they are given evidence and logical reasoned arguments that your ‘opinion piece’ is extremely uninformed. You are entitled to an opinion, but you will get criticism if you do not do your research and only look at one side of the argument or the surface.
In debates in the real world, you will get criticized if you make an argument and an opinion based on little facts…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty

by 











