Grasping at Straws?
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
160 comments
With details still being sorted out regarding the rumoured Hedo Turkoglu deal, Franchise touches in quickly with some thoughts...
The new era of "journalism" can certainly be frustrating at times.
At one end, it's possible for blogs like ours to break news almost immediately after it occurs since social media platforms like Twitter allow for almost immediate access to new information.
However it also means an almost 24 hour media watch, and often, false or incomplete reports that get bandied around prior to any actual confirmation.
Such was the case around midnight last night.
Just when I was preparing to pack for my annual Vegas Summer League trek, news broke via Arizona Republic writer Paul Coro that a deal was in place that would see the Toronto Raptors send beleaguered forward Hedo Turkoglu to the Phoenix Suns in exchange for Leandro Barbosa and a trade exception.
I was obviously ecstatic, even when the deal was updated a few minutes later to include little-used forward Dwayne Jones.
After posting an update on the site when it appeared that things looked legit, suddenly, the new word was that Toronto was moving Jones and part of their trade exception obtained via the Chris Bosh deal, to the Charlotte Bobcats in exchange for Boris Diaw.
Say what?
Now before I get into my initial thoughts on such a plan, suffice to say that it made for a very late and confusing night.
As of the time of this post, there's still no official word from any of the local sources, although Michael Grange tweeted last night that the deal was "quite complex" so I'm guessing this may take the better part of the day to figure out.
Now...some quick thoughts.
If the Barbosa part of the deal is correct, I love it.
In fact, I started to wonder if maybe my recent anti-Colangelo tirades may have been a bit misplaced.
The deal would mean getting rid of a major team cancer for starters, but would also trim about $2.5M per season off Toronto's books over the next two years, and then Hedo's entire salary after that. Barbosa has one year and a player option left on his contract (which I'm sure he'll exercise given the impending CBA) so I'm not sure how this can be viewed as anything but a huge win at face value.
Yes, Barbosa then joins the current log-jam at the 1-2 spot along with DeRozan, Weems, Calderon, Jack, Banks, etc. However contract aside, his other huge plus is his skill-set; he's a lightning quick guard who can light it up and change games, something this Raptors' club desperately needs.
Considering the word was that Toronto was also getting a trade exception to make the deal work financially (making up about $2M in change) then I was about to call Pizza Pizza and have my own party.
Unfortunately then the Diaw rumours came down the pipe...
...and I felt sick to my stomach.
If Toronto is indeed acquiring Boris, I'm a bit at a loss here.
Why move one soft, overpaid 3/4 for another?? How does Diaw make sense on a team that just made an offer to a similar yet cheaper and more physical player in Linas Kleiza?
A move like this is the exact type of decision that I wanted Colangelo to avoid this off-season, using the newly acquired player exception to grab someone that has little upside, or tangible skill-sets that the team desperately needs.
Diaw like Hedo was out of shape all last season, posted numerous career lows, and finished with a whopping PER of 12.8. To give you an idea of how poor this was, players like little-used Shelden Willimas posted higher marks, the league average is 15 and even Hedo posted above 13.
And most importantly, how does Diaw, a soft rebounder considering his size (his career average is 5 a game), and not exactly a noted defender, fit next to the likes of Andrea Bargnani and DeMar DeRozan?
I just don't get it.
I know BC is against a rebuild effort and wants to make a splash next year, but doesn't this feel a bit like grasping at straws? Especially since counting Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks, BC has now made an attempt to put four of his previous Suns on this Raptors club.
As one of our SB Nation bloggers tweeted last night:
"Does Bryan Colangelo think this is 1996?"
I'm not sure.
And as previously discussed, who knows, maybe these are just rumours and the final deals end up looking much different.
But from where I sit, this re-cycling of previous players he was high on (remember, he almost grabbed Hedo when he was in Phoenix but was out-bid by Orlando) reeks of desperation.
Unless of course BC grabs one more of his former Suns compadres...
...a certain Mr. Steve Nash.
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There may be more to this
Hoopsworld (not the most reliable) is reporting that Calderone and Chandler are also involved. If thats the case, we dump two long contracts for three short ones. We take on an extra $10M in 2010, but reduce obligations by $3.8M, $22M and $12M in the following 3 years. And we are a better team in the short term, vastly improving our athleticsim and defense.
No confirmation from Toronto media on the Jose part yet, but it makes some sense considering the team is losing their starting PG to the Knicks via free-agency.
Not sold on the Diaw piece so hoping there is more to this.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmmm
Yesterday the Raptors shipped off Hedo Turkoglu to Phoenix and got Leandro Barbosa in return and have a deal that’s likely to drop today which will return Boris Diaw for Jose Calderon and Tyson CHandler for the trade exception the team obtained from Miami in the Bosh sign-and-trade deal.
Chandler would be a nice piece. He’s that rebounding grit we need at C.
"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."
— Bob Uecker
oh never mind just read that
"I knew when my career was over. In 1965, my baseball card came out with no picture."
— Bob Uecker
I refuse to believe that Diaw will be a Raptor when the seasson starts. Lets me honest here, we need another PF like I need a third testicle. This has to be part of a bigger transaction. If “Its’ complicated”, then there must be more to come. As it stands right now, this trade does not sound “complicated”. It just sounds confusing.
I went to bed last night thinking that Collison did not play in yesterdays summer league game (hangnail?). Could N.O be holding him out pending a trade. Could they be interested in Diaw? I think Diaw is in the last year of his contract.
Lets not tear BC to shreds here. Let’s let this payout.
Lets assume he has noticed that PF is the ONLY position we do not need help.
Love to see Collison here…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Diaw is NOT in his last year.
Why don’t people look things up before they spout nonsense? He has 2 years and $18 million left.
Yep…so not quite sure I understand the logic in using the TPE (or part of it) on him.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Not in Vegas yet ha ha – later tonight after real job number one finishes…I’ll send an update when I arrive!
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Why Diaw ??
First he is available, can play SF and PF, has 7 years NBA exp, only 28, 11.3pts, 5.2rbs, 4asts, 35min, starting in Charlotte, a playoff team.
He is only signed for 1 year plus a player option, and will provide at the very least insurance at SF/PF or starting at either, as the Raptors rooks learn their craft and become starters in the NBA.
With Turk gone SF/PF talent Johnson, Davis, Weems, Kleiza present minimum NBA starting experience.
I think Diaw is a better fit from a need perspective than Barbossa, a SG, who’s claim to fame will be that he is a Turkoglu disposal unit, as the Raps are well stocked at SG now, and he is at best an emergency PG and will take over from Banks in that respect.
Re the complicated transaction
Read Paul Coro’s article at the Arizona Republic for a very detailed description that looks like he got a detailed memo from Paul Sarver, who is dealing with Colangelo in the transaction, will wonders never cease. It involves 4 teams, and at least 5 players.
I was going to hold off commenting on Diaw coming here until it was official but the more I thought about the more I like it, though not for the reasons most fans have. Assuming that Diaw is a player BC has to take in order to get rid of Calderon and HST’s contracts then I can accept that. It could have been worse and his contract will come off the books at exactly the right time. If he ever even plays here that would be a bonus. I am not ready to rescind my belief that BC needs to be fired but at least he is taking steps in the right direction and maybe he is planning to do something in 2 years with the contracts coming off at that point.
Are we better off?
Yes. Talent wise might be a wash, but unloading Hedo was everyone’s priority.
Yeah we got a lot of one’s and two’s but as reports state, we are not done yet.
but I think
It is good to get rid of him.
Potentially turning Hedo and Calderon into Chanlder, Barbosa and Diaw sounds good to me.
Sad to see Calderon go if that is the case, but the team does look better than it did 2 days ago
Talent
I may be easily impressed by BC but turning Hedo’s stinkbomb of a contract into Barbossa is genius. Getting Chandler for Calderon’s deal is also a nice get.
Dias is oe of those multi-tool point forwards that BC loves, can guard four positions and is able to slot anywhere into the lineup.
That all said, I would have preferred Jack leaving to Calderon, and Diaw needs to lay off the donuts in the offseason to be effective.
by CamHilton on Jul 12, 2010 10:17 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Jack is cheaper. I like Calderon’s upside as much as the next guy but I just don’t think this team can afford a 8 million a year PG who may never actually reach his potential. Jack is half the cost and just as effective.
He's 28
What potential is left to be reached?
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Potential?
Jose was posting 50%/40%/90% just over a year ago all while leading the league in A/T ratio, those were Nash-like numbers.
Then he got injured :/
Diaw can guard 4 positions???
Diaw can’t guard 1 position… Not an upgrade over Hedo from a defensive perspective.
Can I borrow your Diaw game tapes
And could you also send your scouting reports as well?
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
he just came from
one of the top defense’s in the league, and played multiple positions there.
He has played everywhere from the 3 to 5 at different times in his career.
He is not a world stopper, but that doesn’t mean he can’t defend.
Plus I thought Jose was the biggest problem to the Raps D? (I don’t agree but anyways)… Plus the Raps get a true center.
Isn’t this just what fans wanted again… or is it as usual, never good enough?
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jul 12, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Like the sounds of this but will wait a bit
Here’s the thing…
Diaw can play defense, can supposedly guard 5 positions, and is an exceptional passer. If it were Diaw for Turk who would be complaining?
I imagine having PJ on the coaching staff will help with the motivation (hopefully).
If it’s Diaw and Chandler for Calderon & the TPE, suddenly this is a better team than it was last year. Period. Some are treating the TPE as if it’s a super star player and thus should return a superstar player.
I know a lot of people are asking for a rebuild, but I thought the point of a rebuild was to get better, which these moves, when viewed in the right context, help the team accomplish.
Talent and potential are great, but winning is a habit as well and one of the problems with this team is that they’ve never developed that consistent winning culture.
And notice that the moves so far have been about grit, smarts, and defense, which should translate to playoff wins when the team develops enough to reach that level.
Detroit basketball.
You really believe that?
If it’s Diaw and Chandler for Calderon & the TPE, suddenly this is a better team than it was last year. Period.
That’s Diaw and Chandler for Calderon and Bosh. Ummm…
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jul 12, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I do
You can’t look at it selectively like that. First, saying Diaw & Chandler for Calderon & Bosh, you might as well say Diaw, Chandler, two 2011 first round picks,and Barbosa for Calderon, Turkoglu, & Bosh.
Better defensively, much better defensively, thus makes up for the the loss of offense. Diaw being an excellent distributor would further offset the offensive downgrade by allowing for a better distribution of the offense than the Calderon to Bosh sets the team has been relying on for too long.
If the complaint was the team’s defense was so poor last year, how do big upgrades on the defensive end not help?
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
And Chandler is expiring
In time for the 2011 free agent period. Helps with the rebuild, no? The team has one long term big contract (in Bargs) and a lot of expiring or short terms contracts that can be flipped for picks and other useful pieces down the line.
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree
But that talent has to learn how to win. Regardless of how talented the eventual pieces are, they are better served with winning habits, otherwise the talent is wasted.
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Did the Boston Celtics of a couple of years ago learn to win? Or did a bunch of talent just showed up and they won?
Ditto for Miami this year.
Did the Lakers learn how to win, or did they acquire Gasol (who wasn’t known for knowing how to win) and then won?
NBA is ALL about having talent. The only exception to this was the Detroit year.
Teams don’t win in the NBA, because they don’t have enough talent, not because they don’t know how to. Unlike say, NFL football where you can overcome talent or lack of talent, or if you have lots of talent and they fail.
I think they (the Celtics) did
They played to a system that made proper use of their talents. Gasol fit very nicely into the triangle as a good passing big man. It will be interesting to see what system Spoelstra implements next year (he was iso dependent but that was because the Heat were just Wade).
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
With doc as the head coach? Bwhahahahahaha hahah ahahaha HAHAHAHAH ROFL.
This is Doc’s coaching style “Hey guys.. you’re doing good.. keep going.. Yeah! More intensity.. yeah go hard! Give it 110%!”
Whatever you have against the coach
The system, as implemented by the coaching staff, worked for the talents they had at their disposal.
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I think something's missing here
I’m not saying talent isn’t important. I’m saying talent has to be used properly to make the most of an opportunity, the habits that go into playing the right way to the point where it’s almost automatic, have a lot to do with team success as the talent level. Houston made use of the talent at its disposal to maximize its result. Atlanta, a perennial loser, eventually got to the point where one year’s success translated to a better year the next. Even Orlando, with the infusion of the right coach who imparted the right principles, transformed from a 500-ish club with moderate playoff success to one that is regularly in the discussion as a conference finalist.
The Raptors, even as they work to upgrade that talent, need to establish the sort of foundation that can take that talent and use it in a way that translates to wins, consistently, not just one surprise season but for multiple years.
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Atlanta’s called finally drafting some good players. Orlando’s called Dwight Howard.
Here’s my stance. Bring me talent and a trained monkey will make them a winner as a coach.
When I bet money on a team to win or lose, I could care less what their “foundation” is. This variance in the NBA is marginal (not to say never, but it’s insignificant). Teams with talent win, teams with no talent loses. That’s why I make money. In other sports.. not so much, ie Football and Hockey where your “Learning to win” motto may have some validity. But for all I know, it maybe because the moon is in the different part of the sky that night.
It is very rare that a team that is projected to finish last in the NBA at the begining of a season pull off a shocker and be significantly better than their projections.
Why? Because external influence on “wins” is minimal. The projected variance is HUGELY smaller than all other sports.
Even in baseball where you’d think win variance is very small teams like the Blue Jays who some projected to win 40 games can surmount it.
Totally agree with this
Have always preached that coaching in the NBA (outside of a few outliers like Phil Jackson) is overrated. Give me talent first…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
look.. the way I keep advocating how to figure out which team is good.. look to Vegas. They’ll tell you the truth.
look.. the way I keep advocating how to figure out which team is good.. look to Vegas. They’ll tell you the truth.Didn’t the Celtics vault to the top of being the favourites that year before they even stepped onto the court? This was after several seasons of learning how to lose badly too. Why? Simple.. you know the answer.
Regardless of how you look at it, the Raptors will not be a better team. They are a lottery team… which is what they need to do in order to rebuild this thing. That Miami pick is going to be the 29th or 30th pick in the first round next season, so they need their own pick to land in that top four range.
Talking about Diaw as an ‘excellent distributor’ is the same argument we heard from those who defended the Hedo signing last summer. Diaw is a declining, out-of-shape player with a less burdensome contract. That’s all.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jul 12, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
An excellent distributor who can actually defend is an upgrade from an excellent distributor alone.
I think this will be a better team. You don’t. I guess we won’t be on each other’s Christmas list, but that’s okay.
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Where are you getting it that Diaw can defend?
He has NEVER had a rep as a defender. Not a good rebounder for his size/position, has been out of shape ever since he landed his bloated contract… BTW who signed him to that contract? Hmmmm…
Research
I check out sources that seem reliable when arriving at my position on players. Don’t watch a lot of Charlotte or Phoenix games so can’t say I have first hand knowledge of his defensive capabilities, but I will trust the word of those that make their living making such judgments.
Michael Grange has also mentioned Diaw as a solid defender in the past.
by HQ Interloper on Jul 12, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m curious to look over Diaw’s Synergy data now but I never considered him a great defender. Maybe decent when in shape, and an upgrade over Hedo, so I’ll take it.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
That report is two years old...
He’s significantly ummm, heavier these days and curious why Lary Brown is shipping him out… Not sure
Ideally we would land in the lottery
But we can’t throw in the towel.
“Diaw is a declining, out-of-shape player with a less burdensome contract. That’s all.” – AND WE WILL ACCEPT IT GRATEFULLY
yep need to include
all the future flexibility (another thing people have been whining for)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jul 12, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
But I don't think you can compare to that
Bosh is leaving. We did the best we could for him given the situation. We have 2 first rounders next year. I don’t know what we would have got with the TPE, but I think Chandler may be a decent start.
Oops
That should be ‘Diaw’ and ‘one of’.
by CamHilton on Jul 12, 2010 10:29 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Diaw
Colangelo’s weakness is that he obviously falls in love with players he has aquired (or has tried to acquire) in the past without regard for their present-day performance. See Marion, Turkoglu and now Diaw.
That being said, a healthy Chandler seems like the type of rebounding, shot blocking presence needed alongside Bargs.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jul 12, 2010 10:32 AM EDT reply actions
Absolutely. He’s part of the Colangelo starting five. Haha.
You know if BC lands a job somewhere else, he will give his right arm to land Bargnani.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jul 12, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Does Washington need a new GM?
Bargnani for John Wall? Hey, they’re both no.1 picks ;)
Banks
was never a former Colangelo player.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jul 12, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It does not look like
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2525540
The date is July 20 2006 and if it is correct, BC was in Vegas watching Andrea at the summer league….
as always MAS11
jus because you say it doesn’t make it true.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jul 12, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry
didn’t realize it was a joke.
But some took it as an accuracy anyways…..
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jul 12, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually think BC did have his hands in the Banks signing, or at least bringing him in in the first place.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The key still is, people who freaked over the value of Hedo’s contract were wrong. As I kept saying all season long, there’s still value in Hedo’s contract and it isn’t as crazy as everyone in Toronto thinks.
Hopefully that’s a lesson learned we there’s a major freak out over length and term of contract. Let me state, yes there are horrible contract lengths and cost, Hedo’s wasn’t as bad as what everyone made it out to be. That analysis was just wrong.
Oh and the Amir Johnson freak contract freak out.. it looks like the deal wasn’t as much as previously stated.
What's the lesson?
That no matter what bad deal BC makes, he will rectify it by trading it for a slightly less bad deal?
I like the tie....
But you are spot on otherwise. Contracts, no matter how onerous are not immovable objects (Banks excepted).
I hold out hope that Childress will make his way here as well.
by CamHilton on Jul 12, 2010 11:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As I said.. there are immovable contracts, but Hedo and Calderone arn’t one of them, which is what every made it out to be.
One thing here
Jose I always felt was moveable but yes, Turk I did not.
Question though – if Turk’s AGENT wasn’t going to be Phoenix’s new GM, does this deal get done?
Doubt it…there’s probably a very good reason this trade only happens now…no other team was touching Turk with a 10-foot pole.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't see Childress coming over
I think he will stay in Phoenix, but who knows.
Vegas means nothing. Tons of guys look great in Vegas because they are playing guys who are not very good. The fact that he isn’t sucking is at least a good sign but until he plays that way in the NBA for real, I will reserve judgment.
As well...
There’s a definite trend between a team’s summer league success and regular season failure.
Think about it – best teams in NBA have few rookies and therefore send squads of random “maybe we’ll look at them down the road” guys.
Worst NBA teams usually have a good chunk of their roster on their summer squads.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as its still 5 years its a bad deal. The team needs an option after year 3 at the very least to make this contract palatable. If he ends up being a bust, they can at least get out from under it.
Are they not in the process of “getting out from under it?”
Say I sold you a K-car (okay maybe a Kia for those younger folks) for $1.5 million dollar. Yeah sure it’s not a great deal, but the market rate is $1.3 million dollars, then I resold it for $1.1, Dodge. Overall, not great, but it’s not like I’m trading it in a for a russian car and getting $1. Who cares what I paid for it originally. It’s about deflation of the value of the contract. Hedo’s was no Acura, but it was no Lada.
Didn’t you just learn the length of the deal can be irrelevant? And AJ’s is more irrelevant than most signed so far.
Just because he managed these “alleged” deals doesn’t mean he will always be able to. As much as we all malign HST, if he is motivated and in the right situation he can help a team. It will be interesting to see how he fits in Phoenix as it sounds like the fans have him penciled in at the 4. Only time will tell on Johnson but it doesn’t change the fact that he could have provided some protection to the club without too much fuss.
Hedo Countdown
You guys should lend the rights to that ticker to the Pheonix Suns SB Blog, along with a case of vodka. Bye Bye Hedo, we hardly knew ye.
We’ll also throw in VIP passes and free bottle service for a year at any Phoenix area clubs. That’s a great way to get over the ‘flu’.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jul 12, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Talked to Seth Pollack of Bright Side of the Sun about that ha ha
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok.. my new favourite player has got to be Jarrett Jack, and it’s not about his skills. I remember him in the NCAA run with G-Tech, and pretty much tackled in the air when he took it to the hole. You could tell he was badly hurt, but still got up and made his FTs. Then he took over that last 3 minutes of the game and made jumper after jumper.
Ok.. my new favourite player has got to be Jarrett Jack, and it’s not about his skills. I remember him in the NCAA run with G-Tech, and pretty much tackled in the air when he took it to the hole. You could tell he was badly hurt, but still got up and made his FTs. Then he took over that last 3 minutes of the game and made jumper after jumper.Now the fact that he shows up at the Vegas workout with the young guns, and not only that has taken on a Summer League Special Assistant Coach role. Seriously, which other player in Toronto Rap history has done that?
Ok.. my new favourite player has got to be Jarrett Jack, and it’s not about his skills. I remember him in the NCAA run with G-Tech, and pretty much tackled in the air when he took it to the hole. You could tell he was badly hurt, but still got up and made his FTs. Then he took over that last 3 minutes of the game and made jumper after jumper.Now the fact that he shows up at the Vegas workout with the young guns, and not only that has taken on a Summer League Special Assistant Coach role. Seriously, which other player in Toronto Rap history has done that?He could be chillin and relaxing at home like every other person… that’s why I love Jack.
wtf is with the posting for my account? This is the 3rd different computer & different browser that I’ve tried and it’s still doing it.
Couldn't agree more.
I was watching Raptors TV last week and they had an episode of Raptors Today on (to announce the Amir Johnson signing). So they played an interview with Jack and apparently he has been in TO for like a month, working out with "The Young Gunz". And yes he’s in Vegas practising with the summer league team.
Just listening to his interview, you immediately understand this guy totally gets it. Apparently there was a rumour at the beginning of the season that he wanted to be traded (didn’t come from him or his camp). What does Jack do? He immediately got on a plane and came back to T.O. to discuss with Colangelo and let him know he didn’t want to go anywhere. Then he ends up spending much of the summer here working out with the youngins. Very much in the vain of Alvin Williams in the professional manner in which he approaches the game and gives effort, but also he has a bit of "born leader" in him as well. If he is the Raptors’ "captain" or "emotional leader" going forward, the Raptors are in good shape in that department. He’s EXACTLY the type of vet you want around the Young Gunz, and the most important part is you can just tell they look up to and respect him. Loves me some Jack man!
Hoopsworld very unreliable
The Chandler-Calderon part of this deal seems unlikely since hoopsworld makes up stuff all the time . . . this is going to take a while, hopefully something will be settled by the time I get home from work, all this internet checking is stupid:wake me up when it’s done.
by Original Aaron on Jul 12, 2010 11:14 AM EDT reply actions
BC vindication
It’s not maybe Sam Presti-esque but pulling a deal like this off is certainly righting some wrongs. Giving us a bunch of cap flexibility next year and the year after.
And we have a balanced starting line-up that looks like this.
C – Chandler, Johnson, Alabi
PF – Bargnani, Ed Davis, Reggie Evans, Dorsey
SF/SG -DeRozan, Diaw, Kleiza, Weems, Belineli
PG – Jack, Barbosas, Banks
Johnson and Chandler would probably split minutes 50/50
At the end of the day – if that was our roster – i would gladly fork up money and cheer my ass off for some young and exciting guys.
Agree
Hopefully going to talk about this tomorrow provided my flight to Vegas gets in at a decent time.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Potential to surprise
I like the team.
Good interior presence, athletic on the wing, solid, maybe not spectacular at the point. I could see Banks taking on a much bigger role given the present depth at the 1, which might not be a bad thing at all
Perception is reality
Look at how all the news are about the Suns getting a talent inflow, rather than the Raptors getting a rid af expensive dead weight. I would urge some to try to take a step back and look at the situation beyond their small world. Most people here can talk themselves into thinking their situation is worse than it is and their roster s full of untradeable fat asses (never a nice attitude to have when you want to call some other GM to try to make a deal)
Confirmed
Dougie Smith just confirmed the deal – and apparently no TPE involved – some unnamed player to be included (probably an expiring)!!
Yay!
I don’t see how we’re not using the TPE. We are taking approximately $29 million on in salary for the upcoming year if Chandler is part of the deal. Hedo and Jose equal approximately $19 million. Doug Smith is saying that we are sending out 1 other unnamed player, but we don’t have anyone that makes up the $10 million difference. The closest is Andrea at $8 million for next year. So either there are 2 players involved (possibly Banks & Evans?) or Chandler’s not part of the deal. Unless we are using the TPE, of course.
I think that it would have to involve Evans and the roughly $3 million TPE we get from the Suns for Barbosa. There is still about a $4 million dollar disparity. Is this doable under the collective agreement? If not, another player would have to be involved (i.e., Banks or we would have to use some of the Miami TPE).
by Assistant GM on Jul 12, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The small disparity doesn’t matter if there is no TPE involved – it would be a simultaneous trade and would fit within 25% of total salaries incoming and outgoing.
by dhackett1565 on Jul 12, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
what is the difference in salary between Chandler and Jose?
It should not be difficult at that point….
Sorry to see Jose going….
About $5M next season…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 12, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry Chandler 13 M and Jose 8
difference 5…… Reggie Evans?
Jose is making $9 million. Diaw is making $9 million. Chandler is making $12.7 mill. and Evans making about $ 5.1 mill. If these are the players involved, there is still a discrepancy of about $4-5 million…hmm!
by Assistant GM on Jul 12, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
This trade is attached to the Turk trade – multi-team trade: so the total numbers actually add up to match withing 25% – no discrepency at all.
by dhackett1565 on Jul 12, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks dhackett1565! That’s what I was hoping to hear!
by Assistant GM on Jul 12, 2010 2:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So, it means even more flexibility
The team keeps the TPE, rids itself of what were albatross contracts, gets itself some defensive minded players and a scorer for the bench. The team is now in excellent position for the post-lockout NBA, has some intriguing youth with more to come via picks, and has cap flexibility to sure up its areas of weakness.
This is as good a fresh start as anyone could have expected.
Of course there will be complaints because Batman needs the Joker
You silly Boy
most of the people here will not be happy if the team wins more than 11 games…. 12 being a stretch.
/end sarcasm
I won’t be happy if they just miss the playoffs again and leave us with another crappy selection. If we are going to miss at this stage might as well miss big. I am not a fan of tanking but I am hoping our team will be just bad enough to finish in the 5 or 6 spot. Those spots always seem to win the lottery.
Hopefully this time
Noone goes to the ASG and gets tampered into joining three amogos groups aywhere and will keep playing.
My only complaint...
… is that this team is completely devoid of elite talent. That being said, if they get lucky in the lottery next year and manage to turn that exception into an elite young talent then bravo Colangelo (you may once again rise above the level of Rob Babcock).
Otherwise, I agree with your previous points.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jul 12, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
If true...great news
It would mean that two of our three expirings (Beli, Evans and Banks) would have to be included to make it work. Any two of the three would do it. We would be shedding about $35M in salary commitments (Turk $43, Jose $30, two of Beli/Banks/Evans approx $7; Chandler $13, Barbosa $15, Diaw $18)….WOW! And we would still have our TPE….WOW.
Will Miss Calderon
But I like this deal. Enjoyed Calderon as a person but there was some regression and some injury issues and I think it’s time to go younger at the PG. Jack is a cheaper alternative and a better defender.
I like Chandler, and I think he is the ideal big to put next to Bargs.
This allows us to still keep our 14.5M trade exception. I would love to pry Collison out of NO somehow.
by WinnipegRaptorFan on Jul 12, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions
wasn't Bosh originated TPE 16 Mill?
and not the 14.5 Doug Smith is talking about?
The three amigos signed for less than the max
Bosh’s starting salary is only 14.5M.
Brilliant brilliant brilliant
Tyson Chandler working with Johnson, Bargs and especially Davis for one yr will do wonders for them. Diaw will be a useful expiring trading chip season after next and in the mean time insurance in case of injuries. Babarosa is a guy I always liked, can play both PG & SG, lightning quick, great on the fast break, all round good pick up.
Brilliant work by BC. Chandler in Particular buys Davis some time to develop and gives Davis a good veteran to learn from. I’m all smiles :)
Uhm
Chandler is a C and Devis is a PF…. do you want to go back to Andrea playing C?
I don't think positions matter that much
Its more about style of play. Andrea needs to play with a good help defender and a good rebounder. Bosh was a good rebounder. Our problem was that neither was a good help defender. Davis has the potential to be both. Andrea does fine defending against big centres. Some of his best games came against the Howards and Shaqs of the league.
Renato, understanding how to play as a big whether as a C or PF is important
boxing out, helpside def, getting early position on both defence and offence, rebounding, setting screens. Aren’t those things that both C and PF need to know> Working with Chandler day in and day out will be good for our bigs.
Scoring?
Suddenly this team will struggle to score. But the D will be much improved and it looks to be a more balanced team.
I was thinking the same
It looks like they just “promoted” Andrea to be Dirk. I am sure they also prepared some tapes to have him listenting to them while asleep….
Crazy Lucid Dream Time
Okay here is a dream…
To New Orleans:
Diaw
Banks
Belli
2 2011 First Round Picks (Our pick top 5 protected)
~6M Trade Player Exception
To Toronto:
Chris Paul
James Posey
Or
To New Orleans:
Diaw
Evans
Dorsey
Miami’s 2011 First Round Pick
~4M Trade Player Exception
To Toronto:
Collison
Okafor
James Posey
NO Second Round Pick
by WinnipegRaptorFan on Jul 12, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions
You can’t combine TPE and player in a single move – you’ll have to find a way to split up the moves so the TPE’s are moved separately (and they have to match within 100,000 – no 25% margin).
by dhackett1565 on Jul 12, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Screw taking back Okafor. BC just extricated us from some bad long term deals. I really do not want to take on another just because Collison might not turn into Calderon part 2.
First option, but just giving up one pick :)
by Assistant GM on Jul 12, 2010 2:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have to remind you
Boris Diaw is a very good defender. He doesn’t rebound or block alot, but his mobility enable him to be a great defender in pick and roll situations and is tough enough to guard 4s.
WTF
trade is cancelled!
The Charlotte Bobcats have traded center Tyson Chandler(notes) and Alexis Ajinca to the Dallas Mavericks for Erick Dampier(notes), Matt Carroll(notes) and Eduardo Najera(notes), a league source tells Yahoo! Sports.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-chandlertrade071310
Ummm… none of those are a PG? What is Michael Jordan doing?
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