So Hedo Wants to Go Back to Sacramento...
by Adam Francis on Jun 9, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
Email
Print
Franchise takes a moment to expand on yesterday's thoughts regarding shipping Hedo Turkoglu off to Sacramento...
Yesterday morning I posted a quick blurb on some ideas regarding a move by the Toronto Raptors that would see our buddy Hedo "The Ottoman" Turkoglu moved to Sacramento.
Did the ideas favour the Raptors?
On paper, certainly.
Do I think they're utterly ridiculous?
Not exactly, as for now it's hard to say what sort of value Hedo might have for certain teams.
However after reading this great break-down of the situation from the Sacramento Kings' perspective by Sactown Royalty, I'm re-thinking things just a bit. The article really puts certain things into perspective from a Sacramento stand-point and really, I think any sort of "Hedo to Sacto" deal really depends on two things:
1) How bad Turk wants out.
2) How desperate Toronto is to get him out.
Let's look at the first point.
If Hedo is really as unhappy in Toronto as he's made it seem so far this off-season, and is indeed bound and determined to get back to the Kings, then would he waive his player option in the "final" year of his deal? Because that's a huge starting point. If he's willing to waive the last year of his deal, which at face value does seem quite implausible considering his age, the new CBA, etc, etc, then that makes things a little more palatable for teams. The one thing playing in Toronto's favour here is that this isn't a young guy with many more possible years ahead; if Hedo wants to have a lasting impact on the game, he may well have to let go of some of his future earnings potential in order to get to a team that can allow him to achieve success again.
Onto the second bullet.
At some point this summer, perhaps even in the next two weeks, the Raptors need to decide how badly they want to rid themselves of the curse of Hedo. There's an argument to be had for making him sit and forcing him to round into shape if he ever wants to see the court again, but I think that only makes sense if Bosh returns and the team manages to somehow add another key piece. If Bosh goes, and the team is left in a bit of a rebuilding scenario, I don't see why you wouldn't liquidate all assets to start from scratch. No sense keeping an overpaid malcontent around the impressionable young guys. If the latter is then the case, the Dinos may move him for little in return, hoping to pull off what essentially would amount to "addition by subtraction."
So what deals make sense?
Frankly none.
The only thing that maybe makes sense for both teams is some scenario where Sacto takes on slightly longer contracts but ends up with more talent (say Hedo and Jose Calderon) while the Raps cut some salary long-term even though the players they get don't make the club necessarily more talented (Nocioni and Udrih.)
In fact the Raptors may have to throw another bone to Sacramento in the form of a future pick or some other player if they're extremely desperate to get Hedo out of dodge. It simply doesn't make a great deal of sense for the Kings to grab an overpaid player who's also almost over-the-hill age-wise.
All of this to say, I think the Hedo-to-Sacramento idea stops here. In my books there's a much better chance of moving him to a veteran team who can properly fit him into their system (like San Antonio) than a young club that's been trying to clear cap space the past few seasons.
It would be great to get him out of Toronto and out of the conference.
But I'm not holding my breath that Sacramento is much of a legitimate option.
86 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Trade kicker?
Is it true that his contract includes a 15% trade kicker? Of course I’d want to be traded if it meant a 15% raise. Bench him.
Yep, he’s got that too which further screws with any potential deals.
Hence, it comes down to “how bad he wants out.”
Wow – this signing by Colangelo is looking better all the time eh?
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
That trade kicker kills me. He’s already impossible to move at his current salary!
Hey, random NBA team, would you like to overpay Hedo even more than the Raptors? For a guy who will no doubt decline for the FOURTH consecutive year in 2010-11!
Face it, the Raps are stuck with this clown until he becomes the ‘Expiring Contract Know as Turkoglu’.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 9, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Shudder
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 9, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
how is it not possible
that a ‘trade kicker’ doesn’t include a clause that negates the kicker if a guy demands a trade?
I understand the idea of it…. the player signs with the expectation to play for a team, so if the team ships him out the player gets compensated.
But to then turn around and demand a trade (regardless of the reasons) really should change that, ideally anyways.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 9, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
To me, a player who demands a trade is in many ways violating his contract, or at least that’s my opinion. Instead of this, and to make a horrible situation turn into the borderline obscene, we have to give him a fucking raise on the way out of town? No wonder Stern wants to do-away with 5 year contracts for joe-schmoe’s like Hedo, NBA GM’s are like crackheads who just can’t help themselves.
by RaptorsAddict on Jun 9, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
here, here
“If the player formally requests a trade, they turn the last “player option” year of their contract into a team option".
The player wins by getting their ticket out of town and an extra 15%
The former team wins by having an easier time trading the contract.
The team acquiring the player wins since they are paying more up front (15% kicker) in exchange for the option to terminate the contract one year early.
This would only work in extreme situations, since the last year of a player’s long term contract is usually grossly above market value (see O’Neal, Jermaine).
wow DOnt really know
yes if we can make a deal like that make the deal those two are like cancer to the raptors Hedo and Jose Calderon Garbage
by Real raptors fan on Jun 9, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions
Jose is a cancer?
since when is a guy who works hard and tries a cancer? You can be unhappy with hi scontract, you can complain about his D… but seriously give the guy a break.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 9, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Have you not been paying attention for the last 4 years? He’s the waterboy at halftime, always walking around handing out the gatorades with a look on his face that just screams he’s overjoyed to actually be in the league. Compare that the entitled attitude of [insert former Raptor malcontent here’
by RaptorsAddict on Jun 9, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Turk for Noc
Sacramento has the cap space to make this deal with no other players involved. It is always good to have a clean salary cap, but I don’t think that Sacto is any more likely than Toronto to be able to real in the LeBrons of the league with their cap space. The main value for the Kings would be to get an offensive facilitator who would allow them to deploy Evans at either the 1 or the 2 and hopefully get the most out of his talent.
That said, I still am somewhat partial to a Turk for Curry deal. It would be a nice slap in the face to Turk to trade him for essentially a non-player and with Curry, Evans and Banks coming off the cap next year Toronto could have some room to move in terms of trades or other re-tooling moves next offseason.
I realize these two points seem contradictory(TO should clean up their cap picture while Sacto muddies theirs), but given that Evans is Sacto’s best player it seems like Turk may actually be a complimentary fit for them.
Lastly, despite all the above comments, I agree that a Turk to Sacramento trade seems unlikely.
Is anyone aware that Nocioni is, in fact, a terrible defender (and not the gritty, hard-nosed defensive presence he’s portrayed as)? Just asking…
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 9, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Love this idea too and glad to see it keeps popping up in discussion. Curry could take Hedo’s place as the “designated sitter” and be dropped in New York…where he could ball-hog to his heart’s content.
In fact, since Hedo would actually have SOME value to the Knicks unlike Curry for the Raptors, maybe BC could get tomorrow’s interviewee, Bill Walker thrown in?
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 9, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Curry
Eddy Curry…I have thrown his name out there a couple of times for Hedo (even before he demanded the trade). I would like the move even more now. How about attaching Hedo along with Bosh to New York (or Miami like I suggested in a recent fanpost).
by JumpShootersRUS on Jun 9, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Breaking News!
Leon’s has just taken their deal off the table. Apparently the dinette set with the 5 year warranty seems to be worth more than Hedo right now. Does anyone have any contacts for furniture stores in Sacramento?
I think that the Government of California would be willing to sell you some furniture… they need the cash.
OR...
…maybe Greece?? He could play for the National Team!
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Jun 9, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Hedo not going anywhere
The summer is long. By the start of training camp we’ll all see a suitably damaged controlled public image for Turkoglu – who will see more of the ball without Bosh in the lineup.
We all need to chill out and take a long view of this – like 3 more years!
What was wrong with Millhouse?
As for the longview, how does keeping 10 million average per season of dead contract on our team help us in any way other than the fact I guess we would get a nice run of lottery picks? At some point down the road this team will be ready to contend again as I am sure our next GM will know what he is doing and isn’t just doing things just to look busy.
man we should just hire a hitman to take care of turkaglu but then i bet his contract has something to take care of that stupid turk
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 9, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
re: keeping Turk on payroll
At the point when we are competitive, Turk’s contract will have less years left and he will be easier to move. I don’t see a scenario where we are able to ditch Turk’s remaining dollars scot free. Something unpleasant will come our way in exchange, not necessarily the player as much as a contract that is out of proportion to their current abilities.
As kid santiago said, sticking it out for three years then dealing him as an expiring wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. The greater world of NBA agents knows that Turk brought this situation on himself, so this wouldn’t be an issue that scares off future FA considering Toronto.
That look busy comment was priceless.
Really? How many dead contracts have moved over the last few years? Something like an average of one or two per year. Portland tried to trade Raef Lafrentze’s expiring 13 million dollar contract and no one would bite and with the new CBA expected to be stricter on contracts (max could be as low as 10 mil and a hard cap) the Raptors may be stuck with him for the full length.
As for keeping him, that creates all sorts of complicated logistics. You cannot ban him from practices or games but you also really do not want him there either. Teams usually ask players in these situations to stay home but if they prevent him from coming to “work” they are opening a possible lawsuit (a player sued a team, I think it was Tim Thomas and Chicago) which was resolved out of the courts partly because the Commish put the squeeze on Chicago. In fact I think Starbury went a similar route.
I agree with kidsantiago
I bet you we will see BC on the opening day of camp shoveling manouer about how he and Turk and the coaches had good discussion over the off season and Hedo is returning with renewed committment to the franchise…. bla bla bla bla!
Translation: I tried everything I could, searched high and low, but couldn’t come up with a trade scenario to correct YET ANOTHER HUGE MISTAKE I’VE MADE without irreparably damaging the franchise for years to come. I am a failure. I should be fired.
Thanks BC! Everything you touched in the last 3 years has turned to shit…
I wrote about this after the initial public venting by Hedo and agree, I think we will see BC and Hedo attempt to mend the fences and throw on their best “happy faces.”
It’s the only way Toronto gets much of value in return for his services and that Hedo plays so he can elevate his trade value to the point that he CAN be dealt.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
Regarding your second bullet
I think the oposite is true. If Bosh goes then that is the situation where it makes more sense to take a strong stance regarding Hedo and not trade him. In this scenario, this team will be abysmal anyways, so why not sit Hedo’s petulant ass until he conforms or we find a suitable trade option. Let’s face it, his value probably coudn’t get much lower. In this scenario the raps have the time and flexibility to wait the situation out.
Convesly, if Bosh re-signs, or even FOR Bosh to re-sign, that is the sscenario we have to move this Bum ASAP.
One more thing..
If Hedo does come back next year, Raptors fans I beg you, do not forget this. Raptors fans are the most venomous fans in the league. If there was ever a turd bucket that deserved your venom, it’s Turkoglu. I call on you – Boo him. Boo him mercilessly. I want to see those close ups of BC in the hallway beside the court during Raptors broadcasts as history is set when for the first time in NBA history a home team mercilessly boos one of their own players. Ladies and gentlemen your 2010 – 2011 Toronto Raptors!
Thought about this angle actually. The thing is, I just can’t see the Raps sitting him as frustrating as that is. And BC has shown that he won’t put up with players who “don’t want to be here.” He’s repeated that numerous times in the past and TJ being shown the door I think was a good example of him backing up his words.
That’s why I went with my second bullet. Ordinarily, if Hedo wasn’t bitching, it would have made sense to make him the focal point if Bosh was gone, at least to try and up his trade value.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
2 factors will decide if hedo leaves or not. how bad hedo wants out or how bad orlando wants to win maybe orlando should take back hedo atleast he will continue to play like he did in orlando.naaaaaaaaaaaah what am i kidding myself hedo will be here fo 4 more years we are all screwed
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 9, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Bosh + Hedo
Forget about trying to get players back for Bosh. You will end up with mediocre talent signed to long-term deals. Keeping us in the middle third of the draft for years to come. Try to package Hedo with Bosh, somewhere he wants to go. ie Bosh + Hedo to Miami for Beasley and our pick back or Bosh + Hedo to NYK for Curry and future picks.
by JumpShootersRUS on Jun 9, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
There is an a strong argument against keeping Hedo with his ass nailed to the bench as opposed to getting crushed in a deal to get rid of him now. The NBA is going into lockout mode next season (more than likely at least) and who knows what the new CBA will look like. I know the owners are angling for a hard cap shorter contracts and if they win outright, the ability to cut players like HT. The problem is, more than likely the owners will forgo the cutting so the players will not revolt outright. That means that if the NBA gets its way and they bring in a hard cap of say, just to be generous here, 60 mil, HT will be taking up 1/6th of that from the outset. That means Toronto will have to pay 14 players 50 (3.6 avg) mil instead of 15 at 60 (4 mil avg). If you do not think that will not cripple this franchise you are crazy. In light of that, why risk being stuck with him. Let someone else take the cap hit even if it means mortgaging the future a little.
I love a hard cap because it forces GMs to value players accurately instead of blowing their money on bad players and then requesting more from ownership because of their own poor decisions. It would be a far cry from ex-players becoming GMs and then just signing whoever they thought was good with little regard for the financial consequences.
Without a hard cap, it definitely makes it more difficult to say player X is not worth $Y since a team can theoretically spend unlimited money.
I think you just eat whatever you have to (within reason) to get rid of Hedo. The mental torture alone of keeping him around is not worth it. Even if he is amicable about being in Toronto, which he isn’t – while he is here the staff will forever be stuck trying to think of ways to motivate this deluded, purely average NBAer.
And of course, Hedo kills you in a hard cap system as you say. It’s almost like NFL’s dead cap space. A guy worth 3-4m getting paid 10m is 6-7m of dead cap. For our top 5 commited salaries – Hedo, Jose, Andrea, Reggie, Marcus – we owe them 37m next year. I would argue that their market value is more like 17m combined (AB 6, JC 5, HT 4, MB 1, RE 1). That’s 20m which could have been spent on other players right there.
Buy Low...Sell High
This is the worst possible time to trade Hedo. He is coming off a terrible year where he admits to not being in shape coupled with a myriad of injuries. Plus he is asking for a trade which eliminates what little leverage we may have had. The only trades to be had will be with teams looking to dump their problems. Sac is not going to give us any of their young assets and we’re really dreaming if we think we can pry the #5 pick from them. Best course of action is not to panic. Promise Hedo a trade at some point next year if he shows up in shape and puts forth an effort. Carlisimo has a history with Hedo and can keep on him. Without Bosh, Hedo can play a more central figure in our offense and reclaim some of his value.
I’m of two minds here.
Without knowing what the market bears for Hedo, in some ways I think it’s the best time simply because moving him would allow the club to start fresh with new bodies that aren’t corrupted by the Ottoman.
That being said, if his trade value is as horrific as we all assume, moving him now would indeed be the worst thing from a value perspective. Almost better to let this die down and try again late in the summer or early next season.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
the trade value may be low, but it also may never get better
..unless of course we trade him the year his contract ends. honestly, i want him out now. get expiring contracts or late draft picks, just get him out. his trade value may be low but you never know, he make act more of a dumbass this upcoming season, play terrible, or can even get injured, which i can see happening. this will lower his value even more (if what i predict comes true). unless someone here convinces me that if BC were to tell him he must play in toronto until his value goes up, in which he will play better, then maybe i can cope with the idea of him returning. but right now, he’s made it clear, he wants to go, then let him go, which relieves our stress, we can start off fresh, and we can move on sooner than later.
we can only hope this all does die down and his value goes up again, but you never know, it may continue or even get worst. but seeing how this team is likely heading in a rebuild mode once bosh leaves, this is the best time to get rid of the cancer on the team, which of course is hedo. we just cant have him play with the young guys, maybe telling them they should all leave toronto. lol
would we consider having brand over hedo i would atleast brand isnt a pizza eating fatass and can rebound a little bit
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 9, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s nice to see people are finally coming around to the idea of letting Turk rot on the bench until he deseves to play, then trade him. Don’t let the turd bucket win as MAS11 says. I think we have also found a nickname that is better than the ottoman. Do you think the ACC would let fans whip turds at him on the bench? Probably not…
don't make a bad trade just because
BC should exaust every avenue to trade Turk for expiring contracts. Lets face it he isn’t getting anything good in return for this.
However he shouldn’t trade turk just because or mortgage picks or good players to do so…I would force turk to either play well and raise his trade value or sit on the bench and rot and get heckled everyday and be miserable. I honestly think the raps will end up with more leverage the longer they make him sweat it out. Who does this guy think he is telling them where he wants to play? Buddy you will play wherever we can find a suitor for your shat deal which is now impossible thanks to your moronic statements. It was near impossible before you even opened your big mouth. You don’t like getting booed? well guess what those 20 or so mentally ill fans that still boo a washed up VC 10 years later that booed you after you faked sick to karioke will be a whole city of people
no we we trade derozan weems or our 13 to get rid of turk
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 9, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Would drafting a guy like Aldrich
open the door to a Amir J S&T?
I see Raps situation with more open and less bleak than most here……
Evans + Banks expiring
possibly a Bynum S&T for Bosh
Maybe you get Vujacic back (another expiring)
Calderon or Jack getting traded
MSLE
telling hedo to come back in top shape or show him the Superglue that will attach his ass to the pine and a CD of Vince Boos tha will go with it
AS you see BC will have his hands full, but the has also plenty to work with….
Hedo Hedon't
.
As mas11 and others mentioned, Hedo would be booed relentlessly if he began the season under “things are good” BS. I would think BC knows that, and would like to avoid a poisonous situation where Turk is worth even less. Personally I think Hedo is well gone before the season starts.
.
Before Orlando bowed out (with Vinny being Vinny), I thought it was a bad idea to trade Turk. I figured, if Jose moved on, it would do two things – give Hedo a different style to work with, and allow the PG situation to be Jack’s, with a young apprentice via draft or trade (ala Weems).
.
Then the Magic lost their magic. And part of the reason was a guy who I still think is the greatest Raptor ever produced. It got such that some people suggested Hedo might have taken Orlando over the hump. Since Turk wasn’t there, the argument is academic. However, the future of Hedo might suggest someone will take a chance, allowing Toronto to move in a different direction. One can only hope.
,
I vote to nickname Hedo as HST. I am sure his middle name starts with an s and if not then I say we give him one, say, Suckcash. Just like the other HST, you will be paying a tax on things you shouldn’t have to and wondering who to blame for the next number of years.
P.S. – I vote that we break into BC’s office and strip him of his Exec of the year trophy/paper weight/whatever as he is slowing making me think he may be the worst GM in the history of our franchise.
Love it, love it, love it… LOL! HST is real good, still like Turd Bucket, but like HST as well. Regarding your P.S. totally agree. Yearning for the Grunwald era right now brother. The worse this situation gets, the more embarrassed I am to be Raptors’ fan. This team has been terribly mismanaged for 3 years now and we fans continue to take it. .
Grunwald was a great guy, but he saddled the franchise with contracts that were at least as bad as what BC has done.
Disagree. The JYD contract is the exception, but the Antonio Davis, Vince Carter, Oakley, Alvin Williams resignings and even the Hakeem deal were all justified at the time. Unfortunately, due to injury (Williams/Hakeem) and skumbaggedness (Davis/Carter) things fell apart… However, I think those years, when this team was built on defense, rebounding and veteran leadership were the glory years. Now our team is built on weaksauce and jump shots.
If the Raptors trade Hedo then it will be a long-time before this team is a playoff team again.
The reality is that a good NBA team doesn’t allow itself to be blackmailed into trading a malcontent. A good team whips the malcontent into shape (see Phil Jackson getting Dennis Rodman and Ron Artest to contribute) because the long-term damage of giving the precedent that you can whine your way out will continually haunt this team. All the things that people are complaining about Hedo just don’t matter.
We keep ignoring the simple fact that Hedo is what he is and it was our GM who targeted him and brought him here. Colangelo coveted Hedo for years, well it’s time then for him to stop with the panic moves and show that he can run a stable ship.
Without that stability this team will always be a non-playoff team.
good point - remember Kobe?
He “demanded” out of L.A. a couple of years ago… then they pulled off the Gasol robbeery, and everything was ok again.
I don’t get it.
You seem to continually advocate mutually assured destruction, cutting your nose off to spite your face, etc…
Fighting with Hedo for 4 more years to prove you are the big dog is a waste of time. Teams put up with malcontents because they can be big contributors, but Hedo was seriously overrated when he was playing “well”.
Regardless, he will be here next season because nobody wants him.
Problem is Artest wanted to be in LA and Rodman wanted to play with Jordan. There is a huge difference between a headcase and a malcontent. Do you really think it is a good idea for the Raptor players to stare down the bench at a guy in a suit lounging around making 10 million dollars a year while they sweat for 3 million? Keeping Hedo around is recipe for disaster, especially if he really really wants out of Toronto. Did you forget how Carter acted once he made up his mind to leave? HST whispering into the ears of the Raptor youngings and undermining the coaching staff and management will not help either.
Nocioni
“Toronto is not a bad option”
Way to help the Toronto infeiority complex. Now we’re “not bad”… next step: “acceptable”!
For everyone killing Colangelo for signing the Turk
What BC was buying was a player who had led Orlando to the NBA finals, during the season as a SF (a Rap’s team weakness) for the Magic,with 37mins, 17pts, 5asts, 5rbs, a unique talent who would facilitate, as well as be a 2nd or 3rd key player/scorer. As well during the playoff run the Turk was the Magic’s key player, who led the team.
What BC got was a lot less than what he expected for his money, as he had every reason to expect the same type of performace from the Turk as he had demonstrated in Orlando, and now how faces a decision on what to do in reaction to the current situation.
Signing the Turk allowed BC to make a lot of complementary moves re Marco, Sonny, Amir, Jack, Wright, which worked well to help improve the team talent from 33 to 40 wins, although they failed to make the playoffs when Bosh and Wright were lost to injury.
I believe he has the track record, experience, and ability to resolve the Turk and Bosh situations and create a winning team in Toronto.
MLSE’s mandate and Colangelo’s objective is to create a winning team in Toronto, which includes playoff appearances, wining series, semis, finals, and a championship somewhere down the road, and they are both commited to that.
That is not an easy road to travel as can be seen by anyone with knowledge of who has won champioships in the last 10 years, and how they were achieved, and how many teams failed to win.
The reason we are killing BC for bringing in Turk actually has very little to do with Turk. If BC had done his homework he would have realised that Turk was a huge risk and probably wouldn’t fit Toronto’s offensive scheme which is run through the point. Orlando has a guard who is more comfortable off the ball (Nelson) so you can run the offense through Turk. In fact, things still might have worked out okay but then BC brought in Jack to improve the point position and ironically to destroy any chance of things working out with Turk. As for his numbers, who cares if Turk had 17 pts per game last year, he also had almost as many games where he fouled out (3) to games where he got a double double (4) and his numbers were inflated because he had the ball in his hands so much. If BC truly wanted it to work he would have gone out and found a scoring PG to back up Calderon so that when Calderon went to the bench, the offense would run through HST keeping him happy.
As for signing Turk allowing him to make complimentary moves, you couldn’t be more wrong. Wright and Marco were a direct result of Marion S&T and we could have ended up with them and the cap space. Amir and Weems were through the Delfino S&T. The only player that is a direct result of signing HST is Jack and the irony is that was the move that killed Turks value. It can drive you crazy just thinking about it.
Actually...
I believe that Wright was aquired in a four team trade involving Toronto, Orlando, Dallas and a fourth team I can’t recall (Memphis?). We also recieved Devean George in that trade, did we not? Both Turk and Marion were involved in that trade. I’m pretty sure we sent Humphries and Jawai to Dallas. I’m having trouble remembering specifics. I do remember it being a ridiculously complicated deal though.
Yes, but the Hedo part was somewhat separate from the other deal in that if Toronto hadn’t signed HST they still could have gotten Wright and George as part of the Marion deal. Remember Dallas is over the cap and needed to ship out contracts to take on Marions. It was Nathan Jawai that was a true casualty of the HST deal.
John 19 and others – A few points to consider when trying to defend Colangelo’s decision making regarding the Turkaglu signing:
• Turkaglu was over 30 when Colangelo offered him the 5 year deal
• Turkaglu’s stats and impact on the game had been declining for 3 years when BC offered him the deal
• Everyone, including the media knew the following about Hedo when they signed him
o Hedo had an inflated sense of his own value
o Hedo required consistent motivation from the team and would slack off without getting the occasional "kick in the ass" as Vangundy later put it
o Hedo was a terrible defender
o Hedo’s terrible defensive short comings were covered up by the presence of perennial Defensive Player of the Year Dwight Howard
• Hedo’s desire for a 10 mil plus average over 5 yrs were out of sync with his market value
The abovementioned needs to be considered in the context of the following:
• The Raptors already had a good offensive team
• The Raptors already had players who needed the ball in their hand to be "effective" (Calderone, Bargani, Bosh)
• The Raptors main deficiencies were on the defensive end (who was going to cover for Hedo’s bad D and clog up the middle? Bargani!!!!!??!?!??)
• The Raptors had a Rookie coach, as such one would think it a bad pairing to have a Rookie coach deal with a player with an inflated sense of value that required constant motivation or ass kicking just to provide effort
For these reasons and more, many (if not most) of the respected NBA analysts at the time cautioned that this was not a fit and that the Raptors would regret the signing. The important part is that a good GM needs to be able to evaluate all of these factors and consider them when making decisions. BC has yet again proved his decision making is at best questionable.
Nice post.
On the cautionary side of things:
The Magic went out and dealt for Vince’s contract (52m/3yr), which was basically the same dollar amount but less term. I imagine Vince’s deal also exposed them to the luxury tax if they were not there already.
The Magic thought Vince was so much better than Turkoglu that they were willing to give up 2 free years of Turk’s services (age 33+). Also, they gave up a cheap Courtney Lee in the deal, who was quite a big piece of their finals run along with Turkoglu.
For some reason, the only two people with faith in Turkoglu were the only two people with money last offseason. And you know what they say about fools & their money.
one other point to mention
was that there was a sense of urgency (right or wrong) to get a player here to help this club and thereby keep Bosh. Its not like Turk was BCs first option either…
Regardless of whether you like(d) Turk or not… he was the highest profile FA last year. Questions about Bosh’s FA decision were already surfacing early the previous season, and he had shown in the playoffs that he could still compete with the best (regardless of age or in decline or not).
While there were alot of people who disagreed with the signing at the time, it was nearly the same number of people who complain about it now.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Jun 10, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Turk was definitely the highest profile FA last year
and he was brought here to try to convince bosh to stay, but BC should have never given him that large of a contract in the first place. he knows turk has no defense, hardly any athleticism, and what he emphasized the most when he brought him in was that he was going to take the big shots at the end of the game, which we all know, never happened. BC said at the end of last season he would focus on bringing some power, athleticism, defense, and grit. ya he brought some in but his biggest move that offseason was getting a player who is opposite and has none of those qualities, and who is being paid a monstrous contract.
i also hate how turk said that toronto was the place he and his family wanted to come, but what i dont get is why BC had to pay him 3 mil more than the proposed portland deal. its a lie of course. turk is only here for the money, and im so frustrated how BC willingly gave him what “HST”, lol, wanted and is now regretting the move. Turk is a party lying, pizza eating, nothing but “ball” saying, lazy backstabbing baby. he needs to go. NOW!
BC better move his ass
It doesn't matter......
because there is no chance in hell Bosh re-signs with a team in such turmoil, and so the Hedo question is moot. The reason for that is that we have all already acknowledged that you will not be getting anything back of significance for Hedo, so sans Bosh the team will still suck.
Unless someone here thinks that Turkoglu can be traded for any player of significance that may entice Bosh to come back, then I don’t see why all the fuss. Even if Sacramento lost it’s mind and traded Nocioni in a straight up deal for Turk, it would have no impact if Bosh is gone.
My opinion is that Bosh is headed elsewhere and that everything else is secondary for a team that will lose a top 10 NBA (arguably) player for essentially nothing. Colangelo’s contract should not be extended and this team should begin ANOTHER house clearing project from President on down to player personnel. If we’re lucky we end up with some good, maybe great players, via the draft over the next few years of futility which allow this team to grow into a contender.
Only time will tell.
Rob
by 2nd Raps Fan in LA on Jun 10, 2010 6:52 PM EDT reply actions
I think the issue here is if HST can be traded for nothing more than cap relief/shorter term contract. If BC can actually work a miracle and get nothing for HST (literally) then it could go a long way to helping to convince Bosh to stay as the cap space could be used to bring in a significant player. We all know it probably won’t happen and I have been at a point since last off season where I believe trading Bosh would be in the best interest for the franchise.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Raptors HQ
Related FanShots on Raptors HQ
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- C-a-C: This is probably as close to LeBron James working with John Waters as we’ll ever get
- Dwyane Wade’s hot pink pants: The kind of thing you can get away with when you drop 41
- Lamar Odom to New York? Dwight Howard on the move? For now, it’s all talk
