The 2010 NBA Draft - AKA, "After John Wall, Who Knows?"
Before heading to the ACC today for another round of pre-draft workouts, Franchise breaks down the impressive group of big men he'll hopefully get to see in action, and discusses some of the issues with the upcoming draft.
The closer we get to the NBA draft for the Toronto Raptors, the more interesting it's becoming.
Back in early April, it didn't look like the team had a pick at all. It also looked like the team had a good chance of retaining its franchise player.
Then by May, that franchise player looked to have one foot out the door.
The Raptors then had a pick, but a coin flip had to determine which pick it would be after Toronto and Memphis finished with the same regular season record.
More recently, Toronto's key free-agent from last off-season has stated publicly that he wants out, and a new coach has been brought into the fold.
So a draft that was at one point viewed as a ho-hum affair, suddenly seems to be growing more important by the day.
Further complicating matters is that aside from John Wall, no one is sure where any of the other prospects will go. Sure we're still about three weeks away from the actual event, but in previous years folks like Chad Ford and Jonathan Givony seemed to have a pretty good read on how at least some of the process would unfold, even this early.
But now?
Even Mr. Evan Turner doesn't seem to be much of a lock at 2, despite at one point being discussed as an option for whichever team landed the first overall pick.
This has made things very tricky in mock draft land, and a quick survey of the landscape shows just how far off folks are on who they think our Toronto Raptors will pick.
-Draftexpress has Toronto taking Kentucky big man Daniel Orton,
-NBADraft.net has Toronto taking Kansas big man Cole Aldrich,
-ESPN.com has Toronto taking Orton as well, but in their first mocks had Texas guard Avery Bradley,
-CNNSI.com has Toronto taking VCU big man Larry Sanders,
-And SB Nation's own Ridiculous Upside has Toronto taking another Kentucky big, Patrick Patterson.
Woah.
The problem as I see it, is that after Wall, things could go in an any number of orders, similar to the 2008 draft. In that one, Brook Lopez, a prospect most had agreed was on paper a top 5 pick, fell to the Nets at 10. This year with "character issues" being thrown around regarding DeMarcus Cousins, and "fit issues" with numerous other top prospects, things could unfold any which way, which could mean a player "mocked" to go in the top 10, slipping to the Raptors at 13.
Therefore, the Raptors need to be very thorough in their workout process as even players like the aforementioned Aldrich or Patterson, or the HQ's personal favourite, Xavier Henry, could end up sliding.
This helps explain a banner crop of prospects expected to stop by the Air Canada Center today:
Name
Jeremy Wise Guard 6-2 Bakersfield (NBDL)
Eric Hayes Guard 6-4 Maryland
Ekpe Udoh Forward 6-9 Baylor
Daniel Orton Forward 6-9 Kentucky
Larry Sanders Centre 6-10 Va. Commonwealth
Cole Aldrich Centre 6-11 Kansas
Udoh, Orton and Aldrich are all players who could conceivably be gone by the time Toronto picks, but as mentioned, they could all end up sliding depending on what the teams above the Raptors do.
So let's talk a bit about each.
For starters, Hayes and Wise are likely being brought in as favours to their agents, not because they're options at 13, or even in the second-round. Both were solid players at the college level, especially Wise, who led the Southern Mississippi Golden Eagles in scoring as a junior before entering the draft, and ending up playing last year in the D League. These two are likely playing for an audition in Summer League.
The other four, well, that's a different story.
Aldrich is probably the surest bet of the bunch, a towering center with good, but not great, athleticism. I'm not convinced he'll be around after the top 10, hence his absence from our "big board," but if he is, I'd love to see him in a Raptors' uniform next season. He's a bit of a Joel Przybilla clone, someone I always thought would pair nicely with Andrea up front due to his ability to block shots and rebound the basketball. The concern of course is that he didn't show much statistical improvement last season at Kansas (in fact aside from shot blocking, most of his numbers were down), however some of this is due to the decreased role he had in the Jayhawks' offence thanks to the talented additions of Xavier Henry etc. He also gets the "big white guy" label but then again so did both Lopez brothers come draft time. This is no Hoffa, and I'd be thrilled to see Toronto land him at 13.
Next up, Mr. Udoh. Basketball fans might actually be more familiar with Ekpe than Cole thanks to Baylor's run to the Final Four this season. He's an extremely intriguing prospect thanks to his outstanding athleticism, power and defensive capabilities as a big man, and on paper, looks to have many of the intangibles this Raptor team needs so badly. However I'm just not sold. I fell for this type of player back in 2006, thinking Tyrus Thomas would become the best of his draft class. He didn't, and while part of this I'm sure was due to effort and attitude, he also simply didn't possess enough NBA-level fundamentals to become a dominant player. I see Udoh in a similar light and visions of guys like Pops Mensah-Bonsu and Jerome Moiso unfortunately flash through my head. These visions were backed up by ESPN.com' s recent statistical draft ratings done by John Hollinger. Udoh finished near the bottom of the prospects in future PER ranking and was given the "dud" status.
VCU Big Man Sanders is next, another intriguing option in the first round. Sanders has continued to develop his game since his freshman season at Virginia Commonwealth and has become one of the better big man prospects in this draft. He's not a monster offensively, but is a definite factor at the other end of the court, something that has to be of interest to the Raptors' brass. Like Udoh therefore, he's still quite raw, however has a more polished passing game and perhaps runs the floor better as well. I'd liken him more to the Raps own Amir Johnson then, as opposed to say Theo Ratliff who some have compared him to. He's not strong enough at this point to play the 5 and really not offensively gifted enough to play the 4 so is certainly a project. One probably worth taking a flyer on later in the first round, but not for Toronto. That's not to say though that by bringing him in with this group, it doesn't make for a very interesting workout.
Finally we get to the rawest of the raw, and the player I think the Raptors take at 13 when all is said and done, Daniel Orton. Kendrick Perkins, Brendan Haywood, Andrew Bynum...take your pick as these are current NBAers who Orton has drawn comparisons too. He played very little last year at Kentucky backing up DeMarcus Cousins but there's no doubting the upside. After names like Wall and Favours, there might not be a player with more in fact. He's got legit size and length to be a true 5 at the next level an like Aldrich, his skill-set would be a great complement to Andrea Bargnani. The problem of course is that if the Raptors make this pick, it signals a full-on rebuild as I don't expect Orton to contribute for a good couple of seasons. However when all is said and done, he may be one of the top 5 players in the draft, and considering Toronto's current needs, he may make far too much sense to pass up.
Orton currently therefore sits at number 3 on our home page's Big Board with only Xavier Henry (perhaps wishful thinking as he seems to be a top 10 pick) and Paul George (a player I feel is quite underrated) slightly ahead. Should Orton dominate today that could change of course and my hope is that we'll get to see a good chunk of what should be some pretty intense action between these four.
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good read
not sure i care to see any of these players on a raptor squad next year with the 13th pick, still think BC should explore options for trading the pick to get a veterans in bec at 13 there is no one that can help us win more games.
Since we’re probably keeping the pick tho and will end up with a 2 -3 yr project, might as well take Orton frombthat list.
You’re right about the fact that none of these players projected to go 13th are going to help win many games next season. But here’s the thing – the Raptors are going to win significantly fewer games next season ANYWAY thanks to both the departure of Chris Bosh and the potential improvements by teams like the Chicago Bulls, New York Knicks and New Jersey Nets.
I’m all for adding a kid like Orton and getting some combination of young players/draft picks in exchange for Bosh to build on the likes of Amir Johnson, Sonny Weems and DeMar DeRozan.
I think the idea that someone like Orton complementing Bargnani is a moot point since the Raptors will not return to the playoff picture until they acquire at least two guys from the top few picks in the lottery (in other words, they need a couple of very painful seasons to emerge from this mess). Bargnani is at best a 4th or 5th option on a good team. Maybe even playing a 6th man role.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 3, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Blow it up.
No half-assed rebuild, time to blow it up.
by RaptorsAddict on Jun 3, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree wholeheartedly.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 4, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I am bookmarking this page......
and mark your words…..
I am not sure....
what BC’s mind frame is on this as he only has one year left on his contract. Is he willing to take a project if he isn’t going to be around?
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jun 3, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
That's the million dollar question
Asked head of scouting for the Raps, Jim Kelly, about their strategy on “long-term prospects” versus “can-help-you-now” guys and he said BC and the team is still deciding what way to go.
So anyone who is sure about Toronto’s pick is on drugs essentially…the team itself hasn’t decided on a direction, let alone a player.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
Taking a chance on a bright future
Having a foundation of Amir Johnson, Sonny Weems, and DeRozan is your first sign that you don’t really have a foundation at all. We are no longer the kind of organization that can pooh pooh taking a project bigman, cause he doesn’t fit our timeline for success. The 2008 draft had a group of project bigmen, Robin Lopez, Marrease Speights, Javale McGee, JJ Hickson, and Kostas Koufus. The polished bigman projected in that draft range was Hibbert. The Suns, Philly, Washington, Cleveland, and Utah all took a chance on an unproven big, and that is a group of teams spread out across the NBA standings. Two years out, some have yielded better returns then others, just like any other draft pick. But when they turn out, you’ve got a piece of your foundation, ready to bear weight.
Contrast this with the other way to approach drafting in the late lottery / mid first round. It was exhibited in the picks of Roy Hibbert and Tyler Hansbrough by the Pacers. They went for the sure thing, when the sure thing was a good chance of meeting low expectations. If you want a difference maker in this range of the draft, you’ve got to take a chance. If you’re lucky, the only major difference between the player you selected, and one a few spots up is a shorter track record. Drafting role players is the domain of teams that are looking to fill out the right complementary pieces, I think Orlando was in this mode with picks of JJ Redick, and Courtney Lee.
Orton
For me he is a really unknown quantity. He would be a guy that I would love to see go back to college for another season to polish his game. However, I have no idea about his personal circumstances and what motivated him to leave college this year(other than projections that he will be a lottery pick). I am really looking forward to hearing what you guys find out. I would especially like to know what you find out about his attitude and work ethic. That is such a huge factor in whether a raw guy like Orton develops or not.
Orton looked good today facing up, he reminds me a lot of Maurice Speights actually – huge body with a sweet touch from outside. He doesn’t have much of a low-post game, but his size makes him an immediate upgrade defensively.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
Interesting choices
As a Kentucky Wildcat fan, I did see a fair amount of Orton last year (even in his backup role). While quite raw offensively, he was actually better than Cousins on the defensive end. On a couple of occasions, Calipari credited Orton as the difference maker in the game. Apparently he is a good, hard working kid. Good rebounder (not the force Cousins is) and excellent shot blocker. Just don’t expect anything offensively for some time.
Udoh
i liked Udoh play in lastyrs NCAA Tourni, but before that Inever watched himat all. Based on his play at the tourni tho,he’d be my pick but the experts who has seen himalotmore than me seems to think he’ll be a bust.
and yees, would love to see Orton and Bledsoe go back to school,they’d prob be top 5 picks next yr. I’m a big fan of drafting players who’vew spent 2 or more yrs in school.
Only saw Udoh play once
but he absolutely dominated the game defensively. I’m so sick and tired of watching the Raptors suck defensively. We’ve got to address that. That’s why I’m keen on Udoh or Bradley and could live with Orton.
Sizes
How is Orton, at 6’9, legit size to play the 5 in the NBA? Haven’t seen any of these players in action so can’t make any judgments but going by your measurements I’d be concerned that he would be too small to make the envisioned impact. For instance, looking back at this year’s playoffs all I could think to myself watching the Phoenix/ San Antonio series was how DeJuan Blair ultimately was too short to shift the series in their favour, missing some key putbacks because of a height disadvantage.
Is Orton really only 6’9? Is that a with shoes measurement? If we’re getting a centre, should we not focus on someone with centre size?
I think he’s 6’10" with shoes, if I’m not mistaken, which would put him on a par with Zo Mourning. And then there’s the wingspan that makes up for an inch or two of height.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 3, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Orton
He definitely could shoot up a bit, but already he’s got legit 5 size. Out there with Aldrich today he was almost on par height-wise and he’s such a beast in girth, he makes up for some of that ala Kendrick Perkins.
Great quote from Orton when I asked him about his developped face-up game:
“I had to learn a face-up game in high school because I got called for charges every time I posted up! I was just way bigger than everyone else!”
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
David Lee putting up 500 3-Point Shots per day
Just read this on RealGM. Maybe he would be a good fit for us. A big man who likes to take 3’s and can’t play defence.
The future of this team will ironically be what Toronto gets for Turkoglu not Bosh. I think we can all agree that Toronto would be lucky to get a player like Hinrich or Deng at this stage for Bosh (I think Hinrich would be more preferable because of his contract). The issue is if Toronto gets junk (by junk I mean a dead contract as long or almost as long as Turkoglus) back for Turkoglu it could really hinder their development long term as we would be handicapped when it comes to signing players. If Toronto gets lucky and gets off the hook with Hedo(don’t have to take back an equally bad contract or give up too many important picks) then that could be huge down the road when this team is ready to compete again. I am not sure who the Raptors should take at the 13 and seeing as it looks like trading down is not something the brain trust is deeply considering, I think they should just take the best player available. We already gambled on a project last year and taking on another one would not be a boon long term.
re: Clearing long term contracts and trading Calderon
Good point about contracts and the future. Even a team in rebuilding mode has to remember that the carousal will stop eventually and they will return to being a competitive outfit. And before it comes time to give all those great young players their second contract, a team usually has one last off-season where they are still under the cap and can maximize their free agent spending.
Keeping Calderon AND Turkoglu for their full terms would ensure that no significant spending occurs for the next four years. I would hope that Colangelo sets an internal goal of clearing at least one of them off the books within the next year. I see Calderon as the best domino to tip first, preferably during the draft. Hedo may need an extra year to build up his value.
Calderon also has the potential to bring back assets that would influence what we may request in a Bosh transaction. I see Calderon having a limited market, and largely among teams that are already over the cap, meaning we will have to match salaries. Hence, it is very unlikely that a trade of Calderon yields picks and players on rookie scale contracts. One of the players will come close to matching the remaining dollars on his deal, the difference being the term. I would like to know who this player is, and how they will fit before I decide on the return on the Bosh deal.
While Bosh will not return a pirate’s bounty, there will be room for flexibility in how the return package is structured. Do you want a Gasol like return, where there is a strong emphasis on expiring deals for the players that aren’t on a first contract? Or would you rather a package centered around draft picks? Another option would be focusing less on several assets, and going for the best possible player you can, regardless of contract length and dollars remaining. Most of the suitors for Bosh are well under the cap. They don’t HAVE to send equivalent salary back, they have room under the cap to absorb Bosh’s salary. The more certainty we have regarding the rest of our roster, the better our chance of picking the deal that complements the assets we already have in place.
re: Bulls
They are a prime example of a team where several packages could be produced with differing pluses and minuses for both teams. The offer heaviest on salary would contain Deng. The offer lightest on salary would contain picks and rookie scale players. And the middle ground would be a package which included Heinrich’s deescalating deal.
re: Trading down
I see trading down as something that is entirely dependent on how the draft plays out ahead of them. BC has mentioned in the press that he has identified nine players who will most likely be off the board by the time the Raptors choose. Assuming he’s right, a short list of three candidates will be in danger starting at roughly pick ten. Should the top two be taken off the board, I can see him being more receptive to trading down. This possibility increases if the players further down on his board share the same position and playing style as the remaining top three candidate.
Using the RaptorsHQ board as an example, let’s say that Henry and Orton are both off the board at 13. BC could take a pass on Paul George, and trade down to a spot where he was certain at least one of Damion James, Devin Ebanks, or Stanley Robinson would still be there. And the team trading up could not care about wings at all, but want to put themselves in position to snag an available pg such as Avery Bradley or Bledsoe.
Today's Workouts
I’ll get into things more tomorrow morning but a VERY interesting session this afternoon.
Got to see Orton matched up against Aldrich a lot, and Sanders and Udoh as well. Best of all, finally saw a good chunk of the workout instead of 10 minutes.
Sanders was the stand-out in my eyes, however Orton and Aldrich were very solid as well in different ways. Udoh showed some athleticism, but nothing in his game really jumps out at me.
Only one-on-one was with Sanders which I’ll post tomorrow, rest of the participants only did scrums but I’ll discuss those as well.
Finally, good chat with PJ Carlesimo, who you felt could have talked for days. Just a huge amount of NBA and basketball experience.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
there are soo many players in this draft that i want....
avery bradley
paul george
damion james
cole aldrich
pattrick patterson
xavier henry
stanley robinson
etc.
but who exactly is worth the 13th pick? we need to get more draft picks this year because we might start off fresh…again…our “star” players are leaving us, bosh, hedo, possibly calderon. let stack this team with draft picks. i may be high but i predict this draft has a lot of great nba role players. i really hope bc goes this route because if we have a team full of good young players, this team would be great in the future having these young players grow as a team together. its not like we’re going to win the championship next year, and i dont want to make the playoffs where miami will get our pick and we’ll still be in mediocrity. pahulease…get more draft picks this year.
Yes.
Draft picks, draft picks, and more draft picks.
by RaptorsAddict on Jun 3, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
also did anyone read
that article about the nets rejecting to trade keyon dooling for michael beasley. how bad is he? i thought he had great potential but doesnt even seem like the worst team in the nba wants him. seriously id give him a chance. hope BC feels the same way
Definitely worth Dooling.
I don’t see any deal that really works for us yet, but as part of a bigger deal I would love to land Beasley for cents on the dollar.
My question is this, and maybe Franchise can answer it, is what is Beasley’s problem: is he unable to be a good NBA player, or is he a psychological/emotional/maturity problem? If its the latter, I think he’s worth a gamble. From what I understand, he comes from a bit of tough background, and it’s not inconceivable that the side effect of that stressful upbringing has been affecting (and understandably so). I just think you have to give a guy like that a chance, the upside is simply too high. You just have to view him as someone in need of a unique organizational structure and support system outside of the basketball sphere. With the resources of an MLSE, I see no reason why to not at least try it.
by RaptorsAddict on Jun 3, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions













