A Road Map for the Raptors 2010 Draft
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 22, 2010 11:00 AM EDT
in NBA Draft
65 comments
With only two days before the 2010 NBA Draft, the HQ weighs in on a few scenarios they'd like to see transpire...
Last night I participated in a round table on the Fan 590, the main sports radio station here in Toronto. Myself, along with Sway Sports' Darren Andrade, and the National Post's Eric Koreen talked all things basketball, from the NBA Finals, to the state of the Toronto Raptors and the upcoming draft.
One of the main points that we discussed was just how many different directions Toronto could go in the draft; big, small, wing, best player available...you name it.
Mr. Koreen made a solid point in that one of the main reasons this team could go in various directions is because outside of Andrea Bargnani, there isn't another player on the roster that Toronto wouldn't want to take major minutes from.
I argued that DeMar DeRozan might be the exception, but even with DeMar, Eric correctly noted that he probably still wouldn't be playing 36 minutes a night next season.
Of course if Bosh sticks around, you include him too, but right now who knows what happens with that situation.
This got me thinking about a post for this morning.
We've got our annual chat with DraftExpress' Jonathan Givony tomorrow, and some last minute thoughts, insight and analytics draft day morning, but what we haven't done yet is talked about what we'd like to see transpire Thursday evening.
Sure, readers know that we're big Paul George fans, and that we'd be completely happy to see other guys like Aldrich or Patterson taken at 13, as well as sleepers like Devin Ebanks grabbed with a second acquired draft pick, but what about from an overall big picture perspective? There are so many options right now for this team, so to that end, we've decided to lay out our "RaptorsHQ Masterplan for the Draft:"
The first point that needs to be discussed is regarding Mr. Bosh.
I'm not sure even Bryan Colangelo has any sort of inkling regarding which way Mr. "I don't want to be a complementary piece" is leaning.
But I think to a certain degree BC HAS to plan for life after CB4, and if so, I'm not sure how this can't be anything but a full rebuild situation. The team disappointed last year even with Bosh, so time to start the youth movement.
Enter Paul George.
Not sure there's much more to say about George that we haven't said already, but George would be the future 3 this team craves. Length, athleticism, rebounding...he's the anti-Hedo.
Speaking of the Ottoman, I expect Toronto to move him in the coming weeks, even for a couple pies from Pizza Pizza (how appropriate would that be?) I'm not going to speculate on returns in trades at this point, but suffice to say that I'm hoping the Raptors future at the 2-3 is a combo of Weems, DeRozan and George.
If George is off the board, a distinct possibility, if I'm BC, I draft Cole Aldrich (assuming he's still on the board at 13 as well of course.) No, he's not the biggest upside guy in the world, but I truly believe he can become a shot-blocking, solid rebounding big man at the next level akin to Joel Przybilla. This would allow Toronto to then move Andrea to the 4, a position he's more suited to play and one I feel that will minimize his weaknesses.
If he's gone, I'd look at Patrick Patterson.
Next? Grab another pick.
This might be as a result of a cash-grab, or perhaps another team like Chicago drafts the player for Colangelo (to be used later in a Bosh sign-and-trade.)
With that pick, I'd then go one of two directions.
If the Raps have grabbed George already at 13, then go after Eric Bledsoe or Avery Bradley if either are around.
If not, go big with one of the big man projects like Solomon Alabi or even Jarvis Varnado later on. Both bring NBA-transferable skill sets (motor, shot-blocking) which could have an immediate impact on this club.
If Aldrich or Patterson are the choice at 13, I'd love to see the team upgrade its perimeter D or athleticism therefore taking someone like Devin Ebanks, Quincy Pondexter, Stanley Robinson or Damion James. Ebanks in particular is interesting as both he and Aldrich are back in Toronto for workouts this morning.
Suddenly you've got a very intriguing young roster for next season, one that could contain the following pieces:
PG: Jarrett Jack, Marcus Banks
SG: DeMar DeRozan, Sonny Weems, Marco Belinelli
SF: Paul George,
PF: Andrea Bargnani, Reggie Evans, Joey Dorsey
C: Amir Johnson, Solomon Alabi
You'll notice I've removed Bosh, Calderon and Turkoglu from the roster as under this scenario, all are going to be plying their trades elsewhere next season.
As a result, players will be obtained in return for their services and thus the other four roster spots will be filled out.
A 50 win team?
Hardly.
There would still be a lot of work to do to get the talent level up to scratch.
But I think for the sake of the future, this is Colangelo's best case scenario on Thursday evening. Guys like George and Alabi have the potential to be very nice players down the road, and hopefully trades involving Bosh, Hedo and Jose bring in more youthful talent.
What I certainly don't want however is another Marcus Banks situation, where Colangelo takes 20 cents on the dollar in exchange for Hedo or Jose (he might not have a choice with Bosh) and takes on an even more onerous contract without upside.
Or even worse, trading this pick in order to move Hedo at all! This team desperately needs, cheap, young talent.
I know BC spoke about the team not being in a "doom and gloom" scenario at his year-end presser, and that he believed the club would be "fine" this upcoming season.
But let's hope that doesn't mean forsaking the future, and some very nice talents in this draft class, in order to try a third consecutive overhaul to help fuel his delusions of being "not that far off."
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I was working last night and couldn’t listen to the program but it sounds like it was a good discussion. Good job on getting on the show; the HQ team is clearly well respected around basketball circles. Keep up the good work.
Although I’m not very excited abt this yrs draft I’ve grown on the idea of Paul George over the last 3 weeks. I agree with your draft board and rebuilding plan altho I’d put more value in acquiring a quality big who can play now over a potential star SF in George who may or may not actually turn out to be star (he’s one of those real gamble kind of picks that could get a GM in trouble if the player doesn’t develop into a star).
As of today, based on last season, I think Weems is going to be a better player than DeMar (looking at you depth chart) and should be the starter next year. DeRozan hasn’t shown as much promise as Weems imo but still gets more attention because he was picked in the lottery. Weems has everything you need in a good SG except the ability to dribble penetrate and shoot the 3, if he improves in those areas he’d be a lock at that position for years. DD is a nice prospect but I haven’t seen anything on the court to suggest he should be penciled into the raps starting line up next year. I’m hoping he shows improvement and proves me completely wrong.
My board (depending on availability) looks like this:
1. Ekpe Udoh
2. Paul George
3. Cole Aldrich
4. Bledsoe
5. Henry
6. Bradely
I definitely agree that Weems should enter training camp as the starter at SG. It’s up to DeMar to significantly improve his game, if he hopes to earn the starting nod ahead of his boy Sonny.
I think I’m firmly entrenched in the “blow it up and acquire young talent” camp.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I too think that Weems is and will be a better player than DeRozan. However I think Colangelo suffers from what I’ll call the “Bargs syndrome.” That is to say, he’s loathe to accept the fact that his high lottery pick just isn’t the player he projected him to be. So again next year unfortunately, I think we’ll see DeRozan, at least initially, get the minutes automatically over Weems unless the two are played together as the team’s 2-3 combo at times.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 22, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Bargs Syndrome… otherwise known as the inability to get over one’s massive ego despite in-your-face evidence that your decision-making skills are lacking.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Sadly true.
Both of you are right. That Lunchtime Link to the strategy of adding 3-4 wildcards per year I think is a great idea, and a firm commitment to such a strategy would yield huge dividends. And, as part of the rebuild, that should be the strategy: keep mining ore until you find some gold.
by RaptorsAddict on Jun 22, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
under what evidence do you suggest that derozan isn’t a good player and not better then weems i completely disagree with you derozan has the potential to be 100% better then weems and your have no grounds to base your argument on. i don’t get why the fan base is putting derozan under the bus ya he got minutes last year but his minuets were more “go out there and don’t screw up” minuets not “run the raptors offence” minuets. weems is a good player but he just does not have the upside that demar has and i think you need to give demar a chance until he shows that he can not live up to it. which he has done nothing to show so far
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 22, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re aware that Weems is only 23, right?
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s far, far too early to write DeRozan off. I think he showed a fair bit of potential last year and I actually expected him to finish with the stats he did. And people have to be aware that Weems is 3 years older than DeRozan, so I should hope that he’s a bit more polished. I’d be worried if he wasn’t.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
I’m not writing DeRozan off… yet. But I think the initial point was “hey, let’s not automatically hand DeRozan the starting spot again” next season. That would sort of feel like that classic Bill Murray flick Groundhog Day.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
well derozan is only 20 lol and only a rookie
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 22, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You are basically comparing a college sophomore to a college senior. I should hope the senior has a more developed game, otherwise he is doing something seriously wrong. I agree that Weems has plenty of upside, but given DeRozan’s age and experience he “should” be due for a big leap forward this coming season. Either way, I am happy to have both and don’t care which one starts as long as they both get minutes, both contribute and continue to have good chemistry on and off the court.
I don’t think anyone is writting DD off but all I’m saying is he hasn’t shown anything on the court to suggest he is better than or goig to be better than Weems therefore he shouldn’t be simply handed the starting spot next season. Weems on the other hand played very well and until DD plays better than him, Weems should get the start. No body knows what DD is going to become as a player (star, roleplayer, bust) so lets just wait and see how he develops; I get annoyed tho when people anoint the guy a future star because he’s 20, athletic and wa sdrafted #8 in a weak draft. Go ask Gerald Green all about being young and athletic with plenty upside.
Middle ground on DD
I know we Raptor fans like to take things to extremes, but it is very likely that DeRozan will be neither a total bust nor an NBA First-Team All-Star. I too favour starting either Weems or DeRozan based on who is playing better in training camp and/or who’s abilities mesh best with the rest of the starters.
I talked about this last night on the Fan590 – there’s not a single thing that DeRozan does well.
Not slashing, not dribbling, not shooting from long or short-range, not defending…that worries me. I also saw very little progress in his game from the start of the season to the end.
And when people talk about Weems being more polished because he’s older, he really doesn’t have THAT much more experience. Not like he’s been in the NBA for 3 seasons, last year was essentially his rookie year.
That being said, I’d jump for joy if DeRozan developped into anything more than a bench player, but so far, I’ve seen no evidence of anything else.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 22, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Point taken
About his lack of an elite skill. He’s going to have to find one in order to be anything more than a bench player. I agree as well that his lack of development from start to finish was somewhat disconcerting, but given how much patience we’ve/I’ve had for Bargs’, we still need to see how he shakes out. With his age and work ethic (apparently), I see no reason to think that he won’t eventually be good at one skill, and OK at many. I could live with that. Plus, as we’ve learned over the years (painfully and repeatedly – fuck you Vince, fuck you Hedo), attitude matters in a big way. By all accounts, he has a great one to go along with a real desire to improve. Those two together, to go along with his physical skills, means that he’ll find a way to stay in the league. We just need to accept that he’s likely not a perennial all-star, but still has a chance to be a good starter if things fall correctly.
I also wonder how much his youth played a role is his play as it related to the stress around the team. Obviously, Hedo was a cancer and the whole Bosh UFA Showcase took a toll. If we blow it up, his roll will undoubtedly increase, and I think this consistent faith and opportunity to make mistakes would be great for his development.
Either way, put me firmly in the “let’s blow this shit up” camp. As you put it Franchise, there is nothing worse than delusions of “we’re almost there-ness”, also known as Maple Leafs Disease.
As for the draft, I’d take George, Bradley or Bledsoe with teh pick (or trade down to take the latter two), and would prefer Stanley Robinson or Ebanks with a later pick. And in my dream world we land a 2nd rounder and add another piece. I’d also add that Cole Aldrich is not the way to go in a blow it up scenario – we need more upside!
by RaptorsAddict on Jun 22, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
im not saying he wil be the next kobe but i can see him beeing the next vince and derozan can slash well he just didnt know when to slash and when to shoot i think his mid range game is good he just needs to improve that 3 ball and his ft
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 22, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You are joking right? I think based on the evidence we have so far that it is safe to say that Derozan will never be as good as Carter was and could have been. Everyone is acting like the kid didn’t get a chance when he started 80% of the season. I am not calling him a bust yet either but when people say they see him being as good as Carter was, that really bugs me. I know yall hate Carter but lets be objective here for a second.
derozan may never be as good as carter
but dont ignore the fact that derozans role in the lineup was not to be the go to scorer. carter had that opportunity. derozan had to play behind bosh, andrea, hedo, and even calderon/jack.
ya i know
i dont get why weems gets a pass, but everyone is almost considering derozan as a bust. what the hell. why? thats what i wanna know. why is everyone so high on weems but sooooo low on derozan. i just dont get it. did weems suddenly become an all-star? i dont think so
i think from now on, it should be fair game in who gets the starting spot. who outplays the other during pre-season. but please, please, enough with derozan could be headed to becoming a “bust”. cause he’s not, unless you all wanna give up on him now.
Do you honestly believe the Raptors said “Hey, this Derozan kid is a really great player but we better limit his touches to keep Chris Bosh happy?” Seriously! Bosh and the Raptors brass would have been ecstatic if DD came in and played like an all-star but that didn’t happen (nor was it expected to) which is why his role was limited. Like I said before, it is not like he didn’t get a chance. He was handed the starting role and yes the offense went through other players but that is because it was clear he wasn’t ready to step in and be a primary or even a secondary/tertiary scorer.
Actually, that’s not true. There are three things DeRozan does very well. He finishes well, gets to the line at a very high rate and works very hard. All-Star careers were built on a lot less.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Have to disagree Franchise. Did Weems outplay DeRozan for a good chunk of the season – Yes.
Does DeRozan need seasoning – Yes.
Does Weems have the same tools in his tool-kit – No. DeRozan has way more to work with and more potential.
This is interesting and probably a good blog post on its own.
I actually think Sonny has more to work with overall but that’s just me. And I MAY be biased considering I didn’t want the Raps to draft DeRozan in the first place and was jumping for joy when Weems was included in the Amir deal…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 23, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Weems has a lot of athleticism and looks like a potentially better outside shooter, but DeRozan is also quite athletic, has a better mid-range game, is good at drawing fouls and takes fewer bad shots. Defensively they are both a work in progress. To me they seem like complementary pieces. As the next step in DeRozan’s development it might make sense for him to be the featured scorer off the bench next year(depending on the composition of the team).
I could back this plan.. I’m all for aquiring picks this draft. Let’s go after Miami’s.
I just have this uneasy feeling we’ll add one of Andre Igoudala or Elton Brand to our line up.
why?!?! why?!
Why trade for Brand – when you can draft Patrick Patterson?
Why trade for Iguodala – when we could draft Paul George (2-3) and Stanley Robinson(3-4) to add to complement a young arsenal of Weems and DeRozan on the wing?
Exactly
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 22, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You only get Igoudala if you're keeping Bosh
And Turk is going elsewhere (ideally back to Philly). I could live with that scenario…
If, big if doubtful if, Turk could be involved in a deal for Iggy, you have to do it whether Bosh is staying or going. I would easily throw Dero\an in with Turk to get Iggy. I know that I will take heat for this because many people think that at least one of these guys has significant upsdie, but I would throw Weems in too if it would get it done.
by JumpShootersRUS on Jun 22, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
no need to trade for either of those 2 unless we’re getting the number #2 pick in addition.
We seem to be on the exact same page with regards to who we should draft with #13 and a late 1st rounder, with the exception of Patterson. He is a good player, who will have a long NBA career, but he is more offensive minded than defensive minded. For that reason, he cannot play with Bargs. Bargs, and this team, needs a defense-first big alongside Bargs or this team will continue to be a below-average defensive team. There is no getting away from that.
We are so lucky we have this chance to upgrade our frontcourt, thanks to He-douche. As long as that lazy bum was on this team, our defense was doomed to be sub-standard with him and Bargs on the floor at the same time.
I think Bosh and Patterson would be a better fit than Patterson and Bargs.
Paul George or Aldrich have to be our top 2 choices at #13.
I think that’s a good point. I like Patterson, but not convinced he’s any better a complement to Bargs (who would still have to play the 5 next to him) than Bosh.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 22, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
So Frustrating...
How having Bargani as your centre completely limits your options at other positions. Basically you have to surround Bargs with defensive support in order to keep him on the floor..
PS – “EarthJuice” is probably the illest handle I’ve seen on this site! LOL
I burst out laughing when I saw Earthjuice for the first time…solid.
And I agree MAS11 – Bargs is a tough starting point because you need VERY specific types of players around him…ones the Raptors, with the exception of Shawn Marion I’d argue, have never had.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 23, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
i caught the interview last night and if i heard correctly 1 of you guys said that there was a rumor that a deal is in place for hedo to be traded on draft night is that true or did i miss hear wrong lol
No, I believe Eric Koreen did say that, and it’s something that’s been floated out by Ric Bucher of ESPN.com, but no one’s come out and confirmed it yet.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 22, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
that voice
Eric was the one with the annoying voice..for the love of god listening to him talk I wanted to jump in the radio and crack him one lol with a voice like that the fool should NEVER do radio again.
by sherwin316 on Jun 22, 2010 9:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
LOL
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 23, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Maggette Trade
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5316714
Maggette for Gadzuric’s expiring contract and Charlie Bell.
Warriors look to be dumping long-term contracts to complete the sale to Larry Ellison & others… so, who else would be a reasonable player to try and grab?
Monta Ellis and Bierdrins are the 2 long-term deals on the team… Biedrins seems like the obvious choice, especially since they just picked up Gadzuric and also have Turiaf.
Coincidentally, Bierdrins’ salary matches up with Reggie Evans + Marcus Banks:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2vg4jnl
Perfect salary dump for the Warriors?
good trade but
it depends on what happens in the draft and with Hedo. Biedrins isn’’t a bad player but he is over paid. If we get rid of hedo for shorter contracts and draft a pg or wing I’d say go for it.
Bierdrins ....
is notorious to be an awful defender, it is interesting how people can talk themselves into believing all the grass is greener outside their garden
Bierdrins
I watch a lot of Golden State ball bec they r my 2nd favourite team and altho Bierdrins can never be mistaken for a lock down defender, he is an average defender but above average rebounder in my opinion. How many great post defenders are there in the NBA anyway, and how many of them can we realistically expect to be traded to the Raps? Bierdrins is a serviceable big man making 11mil a yrs who 2yrs ago he was one of the top 3 rebounders in the league andddddd he’s young at 24. He had a ridiculously bad year last year and I mean bad but a change of system and fresh start might be exactly what he needs. He’s still young with upside.
What we need behind Bargs is a rebounding machine who is willing to play def while not needing many offensive touches. To me Bierdrins fits that role. A good Big from this yrs draft would be my first choice bec thats cheap labour compared to 11mil/yr but if we strike out in the draft and sign and trade with Bosh I’d consider Bierdrins for sure.
Actually
We have one, Andrea is a good post defender (I know, bad at help D). Now, for that role, would you rather have a (hopefully) somewhat heatly Bynum or Biedrinis?
My choice is Bynum because his contract is short enough (he becomes an expiring after the first season) if he is a bust (because of injury) longer if he is good (healthy) enough (team option for the third year)
heat trading their pick
Realgm.com reported that the heat are willing to trade their number 18th to clear up cap room…BC better contact them like ASAP
by sherwin316 on Jun 22, 2010 9:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It’s funny because on one hand a trade like that kind of greases the skids for Bosh to land in Miami (kinda like the Jermaine O’Neal-for-Shawn Marion deal did… ummm… crickets).
But if the Raps are going to commit to a proper rebuild, they could do worse than grabbing No. 18 and then snag a project big like Alabi to go with someone like Paul George at No. 13.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 22, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Sadly, another trade the Raps wish they could make
Why are the Raptors never the ones fleecing other teams like this???
Colangelo alwasy seems to be on the “giving” end of these types of deals: think of how many times in Phoenix they dumped great players for nothing in return (just to clear cap space).
its funny how some are already see derozan as a bench player in this league
and they are so high on drafting paul george. you serious?
last year everyone here believed it will take derozan a few years to develop a game in the league, and after just one year some think he’s headed for the bench and just “hope” he becomes something better. and you think sonny is soo much better than derozan? i dont know where all this sonny love is coming from, its not like he’s had one heck of a season. ya, he’s a little better than derozan ‘right now’ but he is 3 years older than him. they’re both pretty much rookies but age does matter as sonny had more time to learn from the bench in denver how the nba worked and derozan had his first year into the league.
also i did mention how its funny how now you want an athletic with potential player in george. he’s pretty much the ‘derozan’ in this draft. yall are just looking at the upside, which is great, but you all need to learn to accept the fact that these ‘upside’ players take time to develop. give derozan some time damn it!
Solid Point
While I think we started this whole “Paul George frenzy,” admittedly, I DO sometimes struggle with the differences between him as a prospect and DeMar DeRozan.
However there are marked differences, something I’m going to touch on Thursday morning hopefully.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 23, 2010 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Aldrich
I didn’t see George play last year at all, so I will defer to other’s judgement on him. However, I want to point out that if the Raptors end up with Aldrich he could be very useful to them. On defense he would provide badly needed rebounding and help defense(maybe shotblocking, but I don’t know if he has the length and hops to be a game changer in that area). On offense, the Raptors have not had a good screen setter (maybe Rasho) since the Oakley/Davis era. That would be especially helpful for DeRozan who could get lots of open mid-range looks off screens while also wearing down his defensive assignment. Aldrich also can hit a 10-15 foot jumper with consistency(although it’s an ugly sight) which will keep his man honest on D.
Not to say that he should be the Raps primary focus if George or someone else with ridiculous upside, but I would be satisfied if the Raps came out of the draft with Aldrich.
recent numbers....
I just looked up a bunch of mock drafts….
Patterson 7 votes
Bradley 7
Aldrich 5
Orton 5
Whiteside 4
Hayward 3
Davis 3
Interesting….
demar needs to start at the 3 and weems at the 2
by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 24, 2010 2:23 AM EDT reply actions
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