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Orton, Bledsoe and Patterson, the Kentucky Trio - RaptorsHQ Draft Prospect Preview #5

In the fifth of their series of Raptors draft previews, the HQ takes a look at the Kentucky Trio of Daniel Orton, Eric Bledsoe and Patrick Patterson with a little help from some subject matter experts...

Star-divide

The NBA Draft is in less than two weeks.

And yet it's been eerily quiet around the league.

Usually at this point in the process, ESPN.com's Chad Ford thinks he has 80% of the upcoming draft's picks slotted to their respective teams, however this year has been much different.  Instead, his latest mock draft on Wednesday was peppered with statements like:

"I don't have a good feel for which way the Kings are leaning."

And

"The Clippers could go in a lot of different directions with this pick and I keep getting mixed signals."

Just look at his take on the Raptors and their selection at number 13:

The Raptors could go a number of different directions here. With Chris Bosh likely out the door, Hedo Turkoglu pining for a trade and the team shopping Jose Calderon -- you can expect the Raptors to look radically different next summer.

Finding a center is atop GM Bryan Colangelo's list. If Bosh leaves he'd like to move Andrea Bargnani to the 4. But of the top big men left on the board -- Orton, Whiteside and Alabi -- none of them is close to being ready.

That may shift the Raptors' focus to the backcourt. Assuming they can move Calderon this summer, they'll have a need at the point and Bradley, who can play both backcourt positions, is the type of athletic, explosive athlete they're looking for.

Translation.

"At this point, I really have no idea what Toronto will do."

That being said, I agree with Ford's logic, and it depends on how a few other cards fall first.  My take is that if a player like Cole Aldrich, who can come in and help immediately, is still available, he'll be the choice. However I find that scenario hard to believe hence the reason Cole has yet to make an appearance on our board; I just don't think he'll be around when Toronto picks.

That leaves the Raptors with a variety of options and the pick may depend on which of the following three scenarios Bryan Colangelo feels most confident in transpiring:

1)  The Raptors can get a competent big man back in return for Chris Bosh (assuming he's gone.)

2)  The Raptors can receive some sort of value for Hedo Turkoglu

3)  The Raptors can move Jose Calderon

In fact I bet Colangelo and crew are evaluating these three scenarios at this very moment.

If the first scenario doesn't play out, then Toronto might not have much choice but to go big, as the team could be down to Reggie Evans and Andrea Bargnani by the time August rolls around.

One interesting big man is Kentucky's Patrick Patterson.

He's a bit all over the draft boards right now, but is one of the more proven players coming out of last year's NCAA season.  While he doesn't have the upside of many of his peers (I see him as being a Corliss Williamson or David West 1.0 at the next level), I'm confident he's a player who could come in and have a positive impact on a team immediately.

To this end I reached out to Ken Howlett of SB Nation's Kentucky blog, A Sea of Blue, for his take on not only Patterson, but a trio of Wildcats who might be interesting options for the Raptors at 13.  Here was his take on Patterson, Daniel Orton and Eric Bledsoe:


Patrick Patterson
 
Strengths: A plethora of around-the-basket moves, defense, ball handling, offensive range, 100% all-the-time player, work ethic.
 
Patterson's offensive game is polished, much more so than either Orton or Bledsoe.  He has a very effective up-and-under move around the basket, a nice 8-10 foot baseline jumper, a consistent 15-foot mid-range jumper, and he developed a three-point shot during the summer between his sophomore and junior years.
 
He not only excelled against players his own size, but he also was effective against taller opponents, because of his ability to drive around the timber, or shot fake, getting his defender off his feet.
 
Patterson also has a decent jump hook, which he developed this year.
 
Patterson is also a very strong defender.  He uses leverage to push big men away from the basket, and he stays on his feet on the shot.  He doesn't reach, or shy away from contact.  He will bump, and play phyisically, oftentimes wearing down his opponent.
 
Patterson was a true leader in his time at UK.  Both through his work ethic, which is unparalleled, and his play on the court. 
 
 
Weaknesses: Size?  
 
Patterson was measured at only 6-8 or so by the NBA people.  Other than that, I can't come up with any weaknesses to Patterson's game. 
 
Well, maybe one thing -- Calipari thought he tipped rebounds too often, instead of grabbing the ball with both hands.  But honestly, I never really saw that.
 
Projected Position and Impact:  Patterson can play either the "3" or "4" at the NBA level.  He can score, or defend either position due to the attributes I list above.
 
I would expect Patterson to play his rookie year, and be a contributor.  It's so difficult to project him as an immediate, high impact guy, because the NBA is such a different game than college, but he possesses all the tools to be a very solid pro, possibly an All-Star-type of performer after a few years. 


Daniel Orton
 
Strengths: Shot blocking, defense, a growing offensive repertoire, rebounding, high ceiling.
 
Orton was an outstanding shot blocker very early on in his frosh year.  He not only defends his man well, but he's an excellent off-the-ball shot-blocker.  Overall, his defense is at an advanced stage for someone so young, although he will at time play D with his arms, instead of his legs.  This caused him to pile-up the fouls, especially through the first 15 games or so, but in the second half of the year, his fouling became less of a problem.
 
Orton's offensive game, which was limited to put-backs, layups, and dunks through the first half of the season grew exponentially as the season progressed.  He developed a nice up-and-under move around the basket, and an impossible to block baby hook.  In high school he supposedly displayed range out to 20-feet or so, but we never saw that while he was at UK, which is probably a result of an urging by Calipari not to wander too far away from the paint.
 
Orton proved to be a solid rebounder at Kentucky.  He uses his body well to shield the opponent, and his footwork is good enough for him to gain position on his opponent.
 
Weaknesses: Unproven range at the collegiate level, tendency to foul, inexperience.
 
I touched on both of these in the above paragraphs.  But honestly, I can't think of any glaring weaknesses Orton has to work on.  He just needs experience.
 
Projected Position, and Impact: If Orton has, or can develop a mid-range jumper, he would be a solid, if not spectacular "4" in the NBA.  As he stands now, Orton could comfortably play the center spot, but I wouldn't look for him to be a starter, or even a major contributor his rookie year.  His inexperience will probably be revealed at the pro level, but if he continues to work hard, and grow his game as he did while at UK, he could be a major contributor by year two.

 
Eric Bledsoe
 
Strengths: Incredible speed, strong motor, quick hands, penetrating ability, unlimited ceiling.
 
Bledsoe is blessed with John Wall-like dribbling speed.  His quickness enabled him to weave through traffic, and penetrate to the rim with relative ease at the collegiate level.  In the NBA he'll have to adjust to the bigger, better players, but in time he will probably be considered an elite level penetrator.
 
Defensively, Bledsoe has extremely quick hands.  He became adept at the back-tip, and interrupting passing lanes.  He did at times have trouble defending quick, penetrating guards (ala Devon Downey), but hey, who doesn't?
 
Bledsoe has a strong motor and great attitude.  He plays hard ALL THE TIME, both offensively and defensively.  His effort cannot be questioned. 
 
Bledsoe's ceiling is so high, Toronto should be very excited to get a player who is already showing signs of being a great contributor at the next level.
 
Weaknesses: Inconsistent ball-handling (decision-making), and streaky outside shooting.
 
Bledsoe went through stretches where he tried to do too much, i.e. forcing passes, and being a less than strong ball handler.  He would also leave his feet, with ball in hand, unsure of where he was going with the pass.
 
All of these problems can be traced to his youth.  With some experience, he should grow out of these issues.
 
Bledsoe arrived at UK with the reputation of having no outside shot.  But upon his arrival on campus, it was obvious he had been working hard on his three-point accuracy.  Although he made roughly 35% of his trey attempts, he was wildly streaky, but if he continues on his current arc, I can easily see him becoming a reliable, if not spectacular, outside shooter. 
 
Projected Position and Impact: Bledsoe is a point guard.  At 6-1 or so, he would be hard-pressed to be a "2" in the NBA, and plus, he has a point guard mentality: Penetrate and dish first, shoot second.
 
I certainly would NOT expect Bledsoe to make an immediate impact at the NBA level his first year.  But with experience, and an improvement in his decision-making (with the ball), physically, he has a chance to be an impact player at the next level.

Fit for Toronto (all three): I'm not familiar with who Toronto may lose to free agency, but, as noted, I would only expect Patterson to be an immeiate impact player. Patterson would be a nice complement to Bosh, Bargnani, and Turkoglu, but I doubt he would unseat any current Raptor starter.
 
Orton, because of his size and increasing skill level, could see some floor time, and although I think Bledsoe has the highest ceiling, I wouldn't anticipate him taking much time away from Jack, or Calderon.

NBA Comparisons (all three):  That's a tough one, because I don't follow the pro game all that much.  But I'll take a shot: 

Orton -- I'll buy the Bynum comparison, but I do think he will be a better defender/shot blocker.  So I think a combination of Andrew Bogut and Bynum might be appropriate. 

Bledsoe -- Baron Davis.  Both are excellent penetrators, and shaky outside shooters, although I do think Bledsoe will eventually become a solid shooter.  Both are quick with the ball. 

Patterson -- He has always reminded me of a better Elton Brand.  Both possess strong around-the-basket skills, but Patterson will probably end up being a more dangerous outside threat, and better rebounder.

A big thanks to Ken for the very comprehensive breakdown.

Of the three, Orton is my favourite option long-term, however if Patterson fell to Toronto at 13, I wouldn't be screaming "Hoffa Part II!" by any stretch of the imagination.

As for Bledsoe, I'm not sure what to think.  We've had him on our big board just behind Avery Bradley for a while now but like JRue Holiday last year, I'm not sold on his pro potential as much as several other players.

Of course we all know how things turned out with Holiday but at least JRue had one NBA-ready skill-set coming out of UCLA, he was a very good defender.  I don't see any one quality like that in Bledsoe.  Orton and Patteson on the other hand both have skills that will immediately translate, something Scout.com employee Evan Daniels talked to me about, specifically regarding Orton:

Having watched Orton quite a bit during high school and throughout his year at Kentucky, I've developed a pretty good feel for his game.  In high school his frame was quite thick and due to a rigorous training program he slimmed up and headed to Kentucky looking quite skinny.  At Kentucky he never really got it going, partly because he was playing behind DeMarcus Cousins.  With that said, he obviously left a lasting impression.  Perhaps his best attribute was his ability to block shots around the basket.  He's a pretty good athlete with good timing.  He's got a nice set of hands and runs the floor pretty well.  Where he needs to continue to develop is his post game.  He has shown a right jump hook, and it's a nice move, but he's going to have to develop some consistency with it, as well as a mid-range jumper.     
I saw a lot of this in Orton's workout here in Toronto and while he's miles away from being an NBA player, having him come off the bench for the next few seasons to back-up the likes of Bargnani and Johnson certainly wouldn't be a bad thing in my eyes.  You can never have enough agile, strong-rebounding bigs, just ask the Boston Celtics, and for a Raptors team that has had major issues on the glass the past few seasons, grabbing a Patterson for the short-term, or an Orton for the long-haul, would be a big step in the right direction.

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Patterson sounds like a pretty good option for this team..where is he slotted to be pick today?

by sherwin316 on Jun 11, 2010 8:48 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

He’s a bit all over the place…ESPN.com’s latest mock has him tumbling all the way to Portland!

Others have him in the lottery above the Raps.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 11, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Needing a centre

If I was Bryan I would be on speed dial on July 1st to Brendan Haywood’s agent. He is exactly what we need. A shot blocker, big presence in the middle, offensive & defensive rebounder, weak-side help defender, need I say more. MAKE THAT CALL!!!!!!!!!!!!

by OriginalRaptor95 on Jun 11, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions  

That’s the big question for me – do you use the pick on a big man who’s a project and can’t help out for another 3 seasons? Or do you use it to address other needs/positions knowing that you can grab a competent big in free agency?

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 11, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Best player available

I realize that is a subjective judgement. I want to see the team build up it’s talent base, so I don’t mind waiting a bit for a guy to develop, as long as he is not totally useless in the short term. Orton might need a couple of months in the D-League, but if he can become a useful big off the bench by year’s end then that would be a fine pick. The thing I like about both Bledsoe and and Patterson(assuming we can Ken H’s word for it) is that they are both competitive guys with strong motors. The Raptors can certainly use more guys like that on their roster.

by DW19 on Jun 11, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

DW19

I don’t blame you a bit if you question whether I can be impartial when discussing anything associated with Kentucky, but I do the best I can to take my UK hat off when someone asks me my honest appraisal of the team or its players.

Good luck, guys!

by Ken Howlett on Jun 11, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks Ken

Ken, thanks for taking the time to give us your input on these players. What I was thinking is that most players are going to look like hard-workers when they play for Calipari because he is a demanding coach and becaue he controls their minutes, scholarships, etc. As you may have heard our coach is not the heaviest taskmaster, so the Raptors need guys with a lot of self-motivation. If we draft any of these guys I hope your assessment turns out to be correct. Good luck in your recruiting!

by DW19 on Jun 14, 2010 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haywood/Orton combo

I’d be happy to see the Raptors grab both.

A shot-blocking, rebounding centre like Haywood would allow Bargnani to move to the PF position… and eliminate the last of the remaining excuses about Bargs not being put in a position to succeed.

In the meantime, you have a guy with upside like Orton developing behind the likes of Haywood, Bargs, Amir Johnson and perhaps whatever they get back in return for Bosh.

Is it the best frontcourt in the NBA? Not by any stretch of the imagination. But at least there would seem like some semblance of a rebuilding plan is in place.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 11, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree.

Our full rebuild idea version 1.0 will be coming next week, but having a legit NBA center combined with some youth and upside at that spot is a must.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 11, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still maintain (and many fans would agree) that any rebuild based on the idea of Bargnani as your primary offensive weapon is comical and doomed to fail. But hey, let’s get guys who can defend and rebound at the other positions and see what happens.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 11, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe he is hanging around so you can find him a (bench) spot at the local YMCA team….

by renato on Jun 11, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

That is why everyone needs to come to terms with the following: If Bosh does not resign, this team is in rebuild mode whether you like it or not. This team will loose more games than it will win. So why spend any money on any new contracts until you draft for a few seasons and figure out what assets you have?

But here’s what BC is going to do… He is going to spend money to attempt to fill the Bosh hole with the presumption that this team will be built around Bargani. Then this team is going to loose between 45 and 50 games a year and the team will be stuck in non-playoff, capped out purgatory until MLSE comes to its senses and fires BC and starts over.

by MAS11 on Jun 11, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reading some interviews from the finals

I read an interesting story about Nate Robinson and how he had to change his working habits coming from a team with a loosing mentality moving into one with a winning mentality. I believe this applies to several TO supporters: coming from a background of loosing, you do not see any other way out of any situation that does not include a rebuild (the only thing you guys seem familiar with) the same way in which every surgent would suggest surgery as the solution to any health problem….

by renato on Jun 11, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

But when the guy you are about to anoint as the franchise player (Bargnani) is admittedly lazy and not held accountable by the coaching staff, where are these magical work habits going to come from?

The reason why they are staring at a rebuild right now is because the team wasn’t built properly in the first place. We’re a few years into:

- React impulsively and make a mistake (Jermaine O’Neal)
- Compound the mistake by trying to fix things (Shawn Marion)
- Screw things up even more (Hedo Turkoglu)
- Lose cap space, flexibility and draft picks along the way
- Rinse and repeat

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jun 11, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some Bargani supporters are prepared to watch Bargani lead a 30 win team for then next 5 years. This is due to thier I don’t care about the franchise, I am a Bargani supporter mentality. Most TO supporters are not willing to suffer through this..

by MAS11 on Jun 12, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

we will only be a 30 win team for a max 2 years eventually we will get a high pick so dont worry man

by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 12, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't get it

Can’t the team rebuild while remaining competitive and enjoyable to watch? Why does an idea of a rebuild have to be limited to a full youth movement of losing badly. How many teams are actually doing that with projected success…Minnesota? Atlanta tried it and well…several years of bottom dwelling has translated to a couple of rounds or playoffs and they look to be entering another period of flux.

The new CBA is approaching. Who knows how that will impact teams thinking about just how much of a window they have to devote to the contract of young players in development. Everybody looks at OKC but they had the good fortune of getting 2 top 7 picks in a good draft, one of those players being an all world talent.

Portland is about to enter its “interesting” period where their big extensions kick in.

I’m not sure I’m on board with this whole idea of a full tear down because how often does it really work and translate to championship winning results? That approach is often compromised when the GM makes one bad move in the early stages that, at first glance, reflects badly on the organization (see Babcock, Rob)

by HQ Interloper on Jun 11, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because sucking big is the best chance this team has of getting a franchise player. Look at the Leafs who were always competitive but were not good enough to make the playoffs and not bad enough to draft a cornerstone player. Is that what you want for the Raptors? Rebuilding requires suckage, just look at the Thunder and Portland, two teams that got bad to get good. They both had either a couple of veteran players (Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis) other people wanted and they both took on bad contracts to pick up extra picks to build their teams around (Raef Lafrentz for Portland via Boston and Kurt Thomas for Seattle via Phoenix). Hell Phoenix gave Seattle two first round picks just to take Thomas’s contract off their hands. That is the problem the Raptors now face. We are in the give away mode right now and that can be a harrowing time.

One more thought, if we were competitive and fell into the playoffs next year with HST, Bargnani and all, we would then lose our first round pick to Miami at a time where it is critical for us to hold onto our picks. Not something to look forward to.

by McGateway on Jun 11, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some examples of teams who blew it up or built through the draft and are better for it

Oaklahoma City
Portland
Chicago
Atlanta
Memphis

Interloper, the reason the Raptors can’t live in both worlds (remaining competitive and rebuilding) is becuase you have to dedicate funds/cap space to players to be competitive. This should be done when you have a core to build around. When Bosh leaves this team HAS NO CORE! Add to this the deminished value of your draft position when you are a middle of the pack team and the end result is a team “competing” to be .500 with little cap room to improve and reduced value assets by way of middling draft picks. That’s not “enjoyable” to watch.

You are either selling hope or selling wins. This team is not going to win without Bosh – so let’s start investing in hope.

by MAS11 on Jun 12, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you aware how many years...

Portland, Atlanta, Chicago have been awful before they returned competitive? The majority of TO supporters would not wait nearly that long. Moreover, your theory is based upon the false assumption that you would get the Lebrons or the Durants where they, even having top pics (not a sure thing) are more the exception that the rule.

PS Memphis has not yet stop to be bad.

by renato on Jun 12, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I am aware of is that continuing down the path of pretending to have something to build around after Bosh leaves will lead to many years of dissapointment. We will have to be bad at some point in order to get good. Resistance is futile. It can not be avoided. So my vote is swallow the pill and get it over sooner rather than later.

I would much rather have a rebuild now that takes a few seasons than watch a terrible Bargani lead team loose for a few seasons and then STILL eventually have to watch a rebuilding process… I’d rather spend 3-5 years on a rebuild than a decade!

The only positive of not rebuilding immediately is that this team will be terrible next year and BC’s contract will not be renewed. Which would be worth it, because I don’t want him anywhere this team when rebuilding decisions have to be made!

by MAS11 on Jun 12, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh and BTW

I would trade Memphes’ roster for the Raptors situation in New York minute! They were almost 500 playing in the West, have stockpiled some valuable young assets and have a bright future.

by MAS11 on Jun 12, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

i see differently then you i feel that bargnani can be our offensive leader the trick is to find a defensive leader which very well could be avery bradly thats why i rate him so highly i think we can have a good team with derozan amir and weems developing even if these 3 become good players not great we can have a solid team. P.S Portland and Atlanta are still not championship teams and with there core probably will never be one. OKC might be a championship team but maybe in 2-3 more years they still need some more pieces there puzzle isn’t complete yet

by raptors_run_the_show on Jun 12, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

re: Drafting Bigs

A factor to keep in mind is exactly how big the talent gap is between the upperclassman and underclassman at a given position. Sometimes it pays to sacrifice a slightly higher ceiling in exchange for a much higher floor.

Another argument against a project that takes three years, is that you get less guaranteed usable years out of them before you determine their worth on a second contract. The player is eligible for an extension after their third year in the league, and a restricted free agent after their fourth.

IMHO, Orton would be worth it due to the premium on players at his position. I do question the merit of drafting say Larry Sanders over Expe Udoh. Sanders looks like he faces the double hurdle of adding weight to his frame at an advanced age, AND trying to make up for a late start to bball (grade 10). I’ve always been wary of upperclassman that are still stringbeans, especially given the behemoths waiting for them in the NBA. There is no substitute for real time game action, especially when trying to reinforce what you’ve been taught in practice. With Udoh, you can spot him a year, and then start evaluating him more on what he brings to the court, then what he COULD bring to the court down the road.

I’m sure there is an entire branch of science where they analyze a person’s body structure and try to predict what their frame will look like in five years. I vaguely recall, that positive projections of a teenage Dwight Howard’s eventual frame were part of the reason why he went first overall ahead of the more proven, but less projectable, Emeka Okafor.

by Yardly on Jun 11, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

As an aside...

Slam’s ongoing mock draft (which I actually like best of the bunch so far) has Patterson being drafted by the Raptors:

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/06/slamonline-mock-draft-patrick-patterson-no-13/

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 11, 2010 10:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Personally, if the players you have mentioned are our only options at 13, I would rather we traded down or out of the draft altogether, assuming we could get a decent young player and future picks in return. I just do not like the idea of a 3/4 or a project big man right now until we have a better idea what is going to happen to HST. If we had to trade our pick to get rid of HST, I say we do it and suck this year and get a really good pick next year. The draft will be thin next year anyway (with everyone coming out this year and a lot of underclassman will probably stay in rather then sit for who knows how long) so it is imperative that we get a good pick or our fun fun times will continue until 2015 and we hand our 1st overall pick (because you know that is how it is going to break down when you are a Raptor fan) to Miami.

by McGateway on Jun 11, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

DRAFT DARLINGS?

As long as we put ourselves in a position to scoop up Stanley Robinson and have a much closer look at Artsiom, I will call this draft a success.

If we get Patterson at #13 its a no-brainer. I know he was on our shopping lists the minute he projected to be a ‘Landry’ type player.

I think that #13 pick is really a matter of who falls into our lap.

I would really like to get our hands on a #21-26 pick and a #35-41 or thereabouts – as we might be able to land aforemetntioned S.Robinson and Artsiom…..

by Jenge on Jun 11, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

That’s really what it boils down to isn’t it?

If a Patterson, an Aldrich, a Henry or even an Aminu slip…done and done.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jun 11, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree

Agree and I have a very strong feeling teams with multiple draft picks (heat, griz, wolves etc.) there will be teams sellin their picks for sure. So I’m calling it right now..if patterson slips to us we get him..the raps grab another pick and draft Bradley with it that’s my guess.

by sherwin316 on Jun 11, 2010 5:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

bradley will not slips past 15

his stock is rising, it is very possible he even gets chosen before 13 comes around

by tea time on Jun 11, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

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