Trade Scenario Number 1 - Al Jefferson
As we moved towards the draft and free agency we will be tossing out a trade idea or two. Possible trades are always a hot topic.
First up? Acquiring Al Jefferson.
OK - I'm back from a bit of a hiatus.
Since the end of the season I needed a break from all things Raptors. It was probably the most disappointing season I have experienced as a fan - at least since the HQ was launched. I really disliked the 2009-2010 Toronto Raptors roster (the only upside is I wagered on the under in terms of wins) and given what looks like Chris Bosh's inevitable exit, I wasn't sure there was going to be much to cheer about in the years ahead.
Then came the draft lottery and my outlook has since changed.
Why?
Despite the Raps having stayed put in position number 13, the established draft order seems to have opened up a new world of possibilities. Things are a little more clear and suddenly players who you wouldn't originally consider may now be available. Bryan Colangelo just may be able to pull another rabbit from his (sometimes) magical hat.
Rather than harp on the failures of last season (boring!) I figured over the next little while I would throw out the occassional trade idea to the community and get people's thoughts. I urge you to post any trade idea's you may have in a FanPost. People love to discuss possible trade scenarios, no matter how unlikely so if this little series does anything, it will spur some lively debate. Just don't pitch a "We should trade Hedo for Kobe" idea.
Be forewarned however. I am imposing a few rules on myself. The trades need to be at least somewhat plausible and they have to make sense not only in the short terms but the long term as well.
This first idea stems from the various mock draft's who have the Timberwolves taking DeMarcus Cousins with the fourth pick. The analysis @ CNNSI is as follows:
The presence of an enormously talented -- and simply enormous -- center will enable the Timberwolves to deal Al Jefferson. Cousins' size and athleticism will complement the perimeter shooting and passing of Kevin Love.
Dealing Al Jeff you say?
With no Chris Bosh around could you put a better center next to Andrea?
Despite a less than stellar 2009/2010 regular season where Jefferson never quite looked like himself coming back from knee surgery, Big Al still put up some solid numbers averaging 17.1 ppg and 9.3 rpg. There is a debate to be had as to whether he is as good as advertized or simply a good player putting up numbers on a bad team, but you can't debate the fact that the guy has a strong post game and is a very strong rebounder, which is a "must have" when playing alongside an Andrea Bargnani.
Now the desire of the Wolves to move a player of Jefferson's ilk will of course depend on how they value him and what they are receiving in return. There are questions about just how enamored the Wolves are with Jefferson - some of these questions stemming from the fact that he and Kevin Love don't complement each other or play well together. There were rumours last season about the Wolves offering Jefferson to the Pacers for Danny Granger and where there is smoke....
So let's assume he is available (we have to in order to discuss this anyway).
Perhaps the bigger question is what the Raps have to offer the Wolves given the salary rules. Well, try this on for size:
To Toronto:
Al Jefferson
To Minnesota:
In return for Jefferson the Wolves bring in their new two guard of the future to pair in the back-court with Jonny Flynn and/or Ricky Rubio. They also get a more established SF in Hedo who brings with him some much needed experience. Playing time is opened up for their young big men and the Wolves suddenly have an enviable stable of young talent.
The Raps? They get some much needed front-court help. Oh right....they also get out of Hedo's contract. The loss of DeRozan is easily cushioned by the emergence of Sonny Weems and the Raps can look to grab a SF in the draft (Ebanks anyone?).
Just to make sure I hadn't written this article after hanging out with Wilson Chandler I reached out to SB Nation's Timberwolves blog (Canis Hoopus) to get their take.
The response was not all that positive.
I think Hedo would be a non-starter due to his age. The Wolves are looking to upgrade this summer but with younger players that fit within the age range of their existing players. A wing like Rudy Gay is going to be a lot more attractive than someone like Hedo. They are going to look for a sign and trade for Al, but not for Hedo, even with DeMar in the package.
Unfortunately I think outright rejection of Hedo (or perhaps more accurately, his contract) is going to be the constant message received by Colangelo this summer. In fact, I don't know if the Canis Hoopus response would have been different had the return piece simply been Ryan Hollins. Of course constant rejection shouldn't stop Colangelo from trying to improve the team and it won't stop us from trying to find workable deals to discuss - even if moving Hedo is slowly becoming known as Mission Impossible.
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Comments
Where to begin. I will first admit that I haven’t seen Minny play. From what I can tell though, Love is basically what BC wishes Bargnani played like. If that is the case, does it make sense to get someone who doesn’t play well beside the guy who he wishes played like the guy he currently plays beside? Now I know Andrea looked semi-competent next to Oneal but is Oneal the same as Jefferson? Nope, at least not anymore. Andrea needs a center who will not demand the ball and who can play defense(not sure Al is the answer there either) not a guy like Jefferson who is going to demand touches all the time.
"Center who will not demand the ball"
Bierdrins
Camby – just re-signed with Portland
Noah – not unless in a Bosh S&T
Dalembert – could be interesting with Leo doing commentary
Greg Oden – broken
Brendan Haywood
Ben Wallace – retired/old
The big issue here...
is that you are assuming Andrea can be a number 1/2 option. I don’t believe that to be the case. He is too inconsistent to play such an important role. Franchise laid out a comparison between Frye and Bargs and although not perfect the fact that they are even REMOTELY comparable tells me the Raps need a lot more fire power in the front court.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on May 20, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Still will be – Synergy is still trying to fix some of their database issues but I promise it’ll be up as soon as that’s done.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on May 20, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting point – I think though the issue with the Love-Jefferson combo is that Love plays too much on the inside and is not enough of a face-up player. I actually love this idea because Jefferson is far more of a low-post, back-to-the-basket threat than Bosh.
Problem is, not sure the Raps have nearly the assets to make it happen…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on May 20, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Hedo will only be traded for a bad contract
Iguodola, Brand, Arenas, etc.
Al Jefferson is getting $12M+/year for 3 more years… so that almost qualifies as “bad”, but not bad enough.
Also – Hedo is only useful to a playoff team (or near-playoff team) needing to fill a role, and not to a team like the wolves who are probably years from getting back to the playoffs.
I think that’s what’s interesting about Canis Hoopus’ note – even WITH a young piece like DeMar, no go. That probably tells you DeMar’s value right now around the league as well…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on May 20, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Hedo possibilities
Atlanta, for say Marvin Williams +others, if they don’t re-sign Joe Johnson
Milwaukee, with Banks for Redd (bad contract, but expiring)
Clippers, for Baron Davis (bad contract)
Memphis, if they don’t re-sign Rudy Gay
Sacramento, for Nocioni (bad contract) + others
Golden State (after a rich new owner buys them) – for Maggette, or Bierdrins, or others
Utah – with Reggie Evans and Belinelli for Kirilenko (Utah needs size and shooting if Boozer and Korver leave)
HOUSTON – in the “if you want Bosh, take Hedo” scenario
Man...
that is a list of players that (A) don’t play defense and (B) have never won squat….save for maybe AK47.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on May 20, 2010 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t mind a few of these options simply because they would mean getting Hedo off the books…I think it depends on whether or not BC realizes he needs a full rebuild. Until then, I fear that Hedo ain’t going anywhere.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on May 20, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
One Other Issue
Chad Ford and various others are noting that the Wolves are in love with Evan Turner, the probable number 2 pick. Meanwhile, one could argue that the 76ers have more of a need at the 4 thanks to Brand’s decline so it’s quite possible (and I actually think this WILL happen) that we see Minny deal its 4th and 16th picks to Philly for number 2…or some version of that…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on May 20, 2010 9:57 AM EDT reply actions
Had to gather my thoughts on this one
While the Raptors do need a post presence desperately, and have for years (Bosh isn’t due to his extreme skininess), there ins’t a snowball’s chance in hell that Minnesota would take Hedo.
The only scenario that I could see us getting a post player in a trade involving Hedo would be Philly for Brand, and I’m not sure I’d be in favour of that deal. Hedo would be a decent fit in Philly, as their point guards aren’t the best at creating for teammates. Calderon would fit there for the same reason, but with Williams and Holliday already on their roster, they would really have to move one of them for that to work.
If Orlando flames out, McGateway, I could see them wanting Hedo back, but I doubt it would be Gortat coming the other way. I suspect they’d want to unload one of Lewis or Carter. Getting Carter back would be ……..interesting.
Orlando
Or how about Brandon Bass?
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on May 20, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Orlando is definitely moving Bass this summer, but I just don’t think he’d be coming back in a Hedo trade unless it was expanded. A Bass & Gortat for Hedo deal isn’t happening because then Orlando would be stuck with Hedo, Vince and Lewis, for 2 positions. Unless we threw something else in and maybe even if we do, it would be a 1 for 1 involving Hedo because of salaries. If we threw in an expiring (say Banks), then maybe we could get Bass thrown in.
I think its funny
that after bashing Hedo all year, we are proposing trades for Jefferson for him. While Jefferson may not be an allstar, he is an upper echelon big. You can’t compare offering Jefferson for Granger (an allstar) to trading him for Hedo. This board may not like Hedo but must accept the fact that the only trade for him will be for a contract that a team is desperate to dump. I agree with Mistafitz that Brand would be a possibility worth considering if we loose Bosh. Off the top of my head, Arenas would be the only other player we could get and that would be disastrous long-term for us. Its time we accept the fact that Hedo is here to stay so we better figure out how to make best use of him.
The deal would also include....
a lottery pick in DeRozan. The value of the deal is really contingent of how you view DD.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on May 20, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be stunned if DD had that kind of value
I haven’t given up on DD BUT, we are talking about a guy who didn’t even make the rookie allstar team. A player everyone was calling to remove from the starting lineup. There are probably 15 to 20 rookies from last year’s class who would have a higher trade value. He will not be enough to dump a horrendous contract and still get a high quality player back.
Hedo is here to stay period! Its more productive to talk about how we make best use of him. For example, draft someone like Avery Bradley to play the point, guard point guards on the perimeter and turn the offense over to Hedo where his skills can be maximized.
DD and Hedo comon guys
DD has no value, and even if he did Colangelo might as well quit if he moves either of these guys. He doesn’t want to make it seem like every decision he makes is wrong, even if it is. And what planet are we on where any team would have the slightest interest in Hedo based on last season and the cash remaining on his contract. DD was spoon fed minutes all season long and had unimpressive numbers and a few hightlight reel dunks on a bad team. If he moves either it’s basically telling everyone that last season was a complete waste of time based on BC’s projection that DD is the future of the franchise, and on the amount of money dumped on Hedo. It makes no sense.
I’m sure Minnesota would love to have Derozan, but in addition to his terrible contract, Hedo is also a terrible fit. He’s way older than the core that they are developing in Minnesota and he won’t be bringing any lockerroom leadership that a Battier type would bring. If you want to teach a bunch of young players bad habits, bring in Hedo, otherwise, you’d have turn this into a 3-way to get Minnesota to bite.
Maybe they take Dalembert & Derozan, Philly takes Hedo and we take Jefferson? While Dalembert is no prize, he’s younger and he fills a need ( a true Center). I still doubt Minnesota would do this deal, but to me, it’s more realistic.
I think we are in agreement that DD has some value. But Jefferson cannot be had so easily. Look at it from Minnesota’s standpoint. Why would they want to give up Jefferson to basically replace him with Dalembert. Jefferson is four years younger, was finally healthy last year (played 76 games), rebounds as well as Dalembert but averages 17.1 points vs Dalemberts 8.1. Its going to take a lot more than DD to make Minne want to do that.
CALM vs. BUSH FIRE
I think that we are going to have to bite the bullet and keep Hedo – and on a very short leash at that.
On the other hand if we are going to go LOCO we could try and lure Arenas here to play with Hedo (and put guns in the locker room)…. and emphasize the ‘No-leash for all’ methodology – hell lets even promote interpersonal conflict, partying and drinking to excess. I think this is called the dyionesian approach…. and usually ends in tragedy – but hell we are the Raptors – so as long as we embrace it – it could be fun.
If we are going to get crazy… then lets get really crazy…
Andrea-Al = Andrea-Chris (no difference)
I think that Dalembert would be a good option for the Raptors to consider. Hedo and Calderon (or Jack) for Dalembert and Andre might work. It all depends if Philly is willing to look past Hedo’s diasterous season.
In response to the Al Jefferson suggestion, I don’t think that it would work. Al demands a ton of touches and it would be a Bosh-like performance. An argument could be made that Al and Kevin Love is the same as Andrea and Bosh. Also, you made mention that Al recently had surgery on his knee. I don’t think that the Raptors should consider players that are recently recovering from knee injuries.
As mentioned earlier by someone, the Raptors need a banger that is not going to demand the ball. Dalembert fits that bill for a number of reasons:
- He can offer double digits in rebounding
- He can provide necessary weak-side help by blocking shots
- For God’s sake: he’s Canadian (screw Leo)
I’m hoping that the Raptors will be able to retain the services of Demar and Sonny. However, the only problem with bringing in Iggy is that he will hamper the progress of our future young stars.
Again....
in this scenario who is your number 1 and 2 options on the offensive end?
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on May 20, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are making a bigger deal out of the need for a number one or two option on offense. At this point the goal is get rid of some of our bad contracts and to be honest with you if we got nothing but pure tripe (shorter contracts) back for Hedo/Calderon and a true center who doesn’t demand the ball, I would be ecstatic. The Raptors need to suck really bad for a year or two so we can get a true franchise player as we are not going to be able to lure one through FA or trade. On the plus side, Bargnani will either sink or swim as the number one option so if he is going to sink its better to find out now.
Dalembert’s not a terrible fit for us, although he doesn’t have the post skills that would be ideal. We could run the same screen & roll that Hedo ran in Orlando with Howard. More times than not with Andrea and even Bosh, they popped instead of rolled. It would push Andrea to the 4 which is the best position for him and he could take Bosh’s spot playing out of the high post.
I’m banking on Iggy being the primary option and Andrea being the secondary option. In the time that Andrea has been in TO, I don’t think there has been a legit SG. However, I cannot predict Iggy’s offensive impact.
Neither Iguodala, nor Bargnani are suited to be number one options on offense.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Your number 1 and 2 options need to be able to create their own shot in the half-court. Iguodala would be ok as a number 2 option because he can against most players, but Bargnani cannot yet do that, unless you count his brutal 1 dribble pull-up from just inside of 3 that comes out of his hands like a laser beam and clanks off of the rim. Andrea is more of a number 3 option (similar to Rashard Lewis in Orlando).
Worst Defensive Front Line in NBA History
I can’t believe no one has commented on the fact that trading for Al Jefferson would make Toronto even worse defensively than they were this past season. Is this what we’re going for? I thought the idea was to improve defensively? Al Jefferson, for all his strengths, is a poor defender. I’d much, MUCH rather have Kevin Love.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
by Tim W. on May 20, 2010 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Love for Love
Agreed! Jefferson is NOT the answer, but Love would be an awesome piece to get.
In my dreams Toronto manages to sign Bosh to an extension and then trades Bargnani for Kevin Love (I don’t believe either event will actually happen, but screw you killjoy – its my dream). We also re-sign Johnson, giving us a deep legit front-court that can score, rebound and play defense.
Heck, Love can even play the undersized center role ala his hero Wes Unseld next to Bosh and the Turk.
Bonus points for having a massive Wages of Wins upside to this move as well – which is why the T-Wolves would have to be collectively swigging LSD by the bucket for it to happen.
Ah, good dreams.
Calderon & Reggie Evans for J. Holiday & Dalembert
I can see Philly agreeing to that one; it gives them that pure point guard they lacked last year. If they draft Cousins instead of Turner either by choice or trading down with Minny, they’ll have a good young Center to replace Dalembert. If they draft Turner however I don’t see how they could trade Dalembert because they’d be awfully thin upfront.
I don’t see Minny trading with Toronto bec we really don’t have any of the assets they’d need for an Al Jefferson trade.
Also, my pick at #13 would be Damion James if all of the other popular top 10-12 choices are gone eg. Aldridge, Udoh, Davis etc. James has a low ceiling (the experts say) but he does have the skill set we need on the wing. Where did all this hype about Avery Bradely come from?
I would do this trade in a heart beat
Unfortunately…I don’t see Philly biting. Yes they don’t like Dalembert’s contract but Calderon’s bad contract has more years to it. Furthermore, Holiday showed alot (certainly more than DD) as a rookie and has quite a high ceiling. Evans, well Philly certainly knows what you get and don’t get with him.
With respect to Bradley, I brought him up. I just think he is a good fit. Many teams will not be interested because he is too small to play the two but is not a true point guard. However, he is considered possibly the best perimeter defender in the draft (which we desperately need) and playing him at the point allows us to turn the ball handling duties to Hedo so we can get more production from him. My point was that we cannot trade Hedo so lets find a way to make better use of him.
I don’t think you linked your trade properly
I like this one:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2dgqgxv
or this one:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y3qej4c
or this one:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ehaw7m

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