Sunday Thought - Maybe Colangelo was Right?
by Adam Francis on May 16, 2010 11:12 AM EDT
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The exodus of the Cleveland Cavaliers made Franchise wonder if maybe Colangelo was right after all...
After seeing the Cleveland Cavaliers flop out in six games to the Boston Celtics, the media went crazy.
They made sharks in a feeding frenzy look tame in comparison, and since that historic Thursday evening, we've all been avalanched with a series of Lebron stories.
Will he leave Cleveland?
Has his desire to be the ultimate sports business magnate overshadowed his desire to win titles?
Is he closer to Dr. J than MJ?
If he leaves will the city of Cleveland sink like Atlantis?
And on and on...not to mention that I find it hilarious that GM’s think they suddenly know where LeBron is going; after all, these are the same GM’s who choose Adam Morrison over Rajon Rondo and Marvin Williams over Chris Paul.
However I want to talk about something else today - the Cavs themselves.
As I discussed on Friday morning, Cleveland's loss for me was much more than simply a matter of LeBron being hurt, "distant," or not giving 100 per cent effort.
This was a Cavs team that by game five was in disarray. They did a horrific job making adjustments to the Celtics' attacks, (I mean seriously, SHAQ on KG in game 6??), they lacked poise under pressure, and most importantly, got almost nothing from their off and late-season additions.
Contrast that to the Celtics, grizzled veterans who played as a team from the first jump ball these playoffs and yes, while older and slower than in years past, worked as a cohesive unit, especially on D, to get the job done. Doc Rivers didn't need to keep drawing up plays, this team's core had been through the wars. He simply needed to be the motivator, and time and time again during TNT's "plugged-in" segments, you could hear Doc doing just that; spurring his troops onward.
To me, the big lesson from this series was that chemistry and team cohesion matter.
Not that that's a huge Smurfs "ooooh..." "aaaaah."
But I think at times both get pushed pretty far into the broom closet behind things like talent and coaching.
However I started thinking back to NBA Finals teams in the past decade and I couldn't think of a single team outside of the 2003-04 Detroit Pistons that made late-season additions and won it all. Even that Detroit team, which added Rasheed Wallace, had a very solid core in Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, RIP Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. They also had Larry Brown. This wasn't quite the same as a team of Anthony Parkers and Delonte Wests adding Antawn Jamison.
In fact, the team that fell to the Pistons in that finals is a great example of some of the worst chemistry of all time, the 2003-04 Los Angeles Lakers, who even with off-season acquisitions of Karl Malone and Gary Payton, failed to win it all, combusting in the end.
I didn't reach back past a decade but I think it's safe to say that very few "trade deadline deals for key players" end up being an NBA Championship team's final piece to the puzzle. Yes, adding a James Posey type here or there, or a bench upgrade fine, but trying to incorporate someone who is used to being the offensive center of attention?
Not so easy.
This got me thinking about the Bryan Colangelo's end-of-season presser that I attended. Over and over he gave "trying to incorporate nine new faces" as the main reason for the team falling short of pre-season expectations. I think most of us sitting there rolled our eyes at that. I mean, the team did play well in stretches, so was that really a valid excuse?
After watching the Cavs malfunction, I'm wondering now if a bunch of us, myself especially, didn't give this rationale enough credit.
It's simply very hard to incorporate so many new players, even if you get a chance to do it from the start of the season. And when you think about it, Hedo reporting to camp out of shape and drunk exhausted, Reggie Evans foot and Chris Bosh's knee injuries couldn't have helped either. And when the fit was never there to begin, as I felt was the case with Hedo, things can really go horribly awry. Perhaps going back we all should have seen this coming and even my original 42 win mark would have been a tad lofty.
One final thought though.
If that's the case, and we should have seen this coming, shouldn't Colangelo as well? I mean, even if you do think that BC was right, and that the number of new personalities, not to mention cultures, that the team had to integrate was simply overwhelming, you still have to question why he tried in the first place. I mean, he's a GM with decades of NBA experience! Wasn't it quite possible that this would blow up in his face? And wasn't that maybe not the safest bet in a season when keeping Chris Bosh was close to priority number one?
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But if Colangelo was that much of a visionary
He shouldn’t have made that many trades in the first place.
Exactly
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on May 16, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not as if Colangelo had a choice. Just because it tales time to incorporate so many new faces, doesn’t mean you keep the status quo all the time. The Raptors were in need of makeover, and it was better to overhaul the roster than be worried about how long it would take to gel.
And I don’t know if it was the new faces as much as the lack of identity and mismatched parts on the Cleveland roster. Ironically, possibly their biggest problem is the fact that their front line, apart from Varajap, could defend. Shaq and Ilgauskus are simply too old and slow, now, and Jamison was never known for his defense. I thought the two biggest mistakes Ferry made (and he made more than a few) was getting Shaq and trading for Jamison. I didn’t think either worked on this team.
The other big problem, I thought, was that Cleveland never seemed to have a real identity as a team. They just seemed to be a bunch of parts thrown together in hopes they would improve the team. They didn’t.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
I think the identity piece is huge, and I probably should have lumped that in with chemistry etc. Like the Cavs, the Raptors never had an identity this year, and trying to get that many new faces together makes it tough.
The other parallel I want to draw is with “fit,” as like Jamison, I think Turk was a terrible fit as well from day one.
Yes, it’s tough to incorporate so many new faces and cultures, but when the pieces were never a good fit to begin with, it makes things even tougher.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on May 16, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, neither Turkoglu nor Bargnani were ever good fits for the Raptors.
Oh, and I meant that the Cleveland front line COULDN’T defend.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Totally Agree
Our readers know I’ve loathed Hedo since his time in Orlando so seeing him arrive in Toronto was a nightmare for me ha ha.
As for Bargs, never thought the fit was there to the point that I asked BC at his year-end presser, if HE still thought the fit existed.
And incidentally, tomorrow we’ve got a big piece on Mr. Bargnani, with some of the top basketball bloggers in the business weighing in…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on May 16, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
So what did Colangelo say to your question???
I’ve already weighed in on Bargnani. Numerous times. I look forward to reading the article.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Here was his answer to that question, and my preceding one about Bargs being option number one if Bosh goes:
RHQ: If Bosh does leave, can you just talk about Andrea Bargnani, how ready do you think he is to possibly replace Bosh to take over that lead role?
BC: I don’t know if he’ll ever be ready to replace Chris fully, but he’ll have the opportunity to assume a much bigger scoring load, he’ll have the opportunity to emerge as a more a dominant scorer within this team. There’s times when he gets a little lost in the offense and he gets a little anxious when he does touch the ball. But you’re talking about a seven-footer who is 24-25, he’s gotten better – with the exception of maybe staying flat the second year – he’s gotten better every step of the way. Despite the constant, constant criticism of the contract, it’s a very good contract. There are a lot of people out there in the league that seem to agree with us. That it’s a very good contract for a kid with that kind of production and that kind of potential. For another $15M more you can get 1.2 rebounds from LaMarcus Aldridge, and arguably they’re in the same category. Maybe it’s neck-and-neck right now, LaMarcus is a little bit ahead but we’re talking about guys in an equal talent area and it’s a very good contract. There’s a lot of value there and there’s a lot of interest in him. He’s going to have a chance to emerge if Chris leaves and if Chris stays then we’ll find way for him to get better at things he needs to get better at. You could say rebounding’s a concern, he’s got a little bit better, but it’s not good enough.
Defensively, he’s one of our best post players. He averages over a block per game or one and a half blocks per game, whatever it is. He’s become very effective at that. Is he a good weak side defender? No, he needs to work on that, instinctively. We need to be collectively a better group defensively because we don’t have really solid man-on-ball defenders. We need to be better, especially if there are straight-line drives coming from the top. We need to work on our interior defence or weak side defence, people coming over to help and being more of a presence.
Andrea is going to have an opportunity to grow as a player for sure.
RHQ: Do you think the fit’s still there between Bosh and Bargnani though, playing together?
BC: Yes. As he gets more and more accustomed to or comfortable with playing in the post, which he has gotten much more comfortable at doing, he’ll be even that much more effective in situations where he can thrive.
Here’s the full breakdown:
http://www.raptorshq.com/2010/4/20/1431848/raptorshq-de-brief-bryan
I also asked him a few other things, among them, whether trying to fit 9 new guys together when you’re trying to keep Bosh was such a good idea…he totally avoided answering and went on about it “not being DeRozan’s fault.”
http://www.raptorshq.com/2010/4/21/1432220/raptorshq-de-brief-bryan
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on May 16, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Scratch That
Might not be up tomorrow now – Synergy’s data isn’t working right…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on May 17, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
The title to this post should read...
Sunday Thought, Maybe Hedo blows goats?
In my estimation, BC can’t put a team together (with 9 new faces) at the beginning of the season and say it is a 50 win team. Then, turn around at the end of the season and say they fell short of expectations because they had to incorperate 9 new faces. It hurts his credibility as a GM.
On a bit of a personal note, I find it absolutely hilarious that the same d-bag who publically called out the Raptors desire to make the play-offs is now faces similar questions about his desire to win Championships. Enjoy the extra time off this summer LeBron (again).
exactly. even his desire to play AT ALL in the 4th quarter of games 5 and 6.
Le BJ mailed it in for those key moments, essentially quitting on the team/fans/owners who pay for his salary and merchandise. He spent more time looking at the clock ticking down than he did focusing on how to take over the game.
At least Bosh broke his face before he quit – LBJ and his “strained elbow” were too worried about whether he’d be hanging out with Jay-Z or Kanye this weekend.
Never thought of that...
Great point, here’s a guy who called out the Raps, then did arguably a worse job mailing it in when the stakes were even higher…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on May 16, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
9 faces & 50 wins
.
As far as I remember, BC said the Raptors had potential for 50 wins – not “this is a 50 win team”. One’s optimism, the latter … just stupid.
.
I agree with Tim that " it takes time to incorporate so many new faces ". Problem was, everyone would chew you out if you used that excuse for Raptor woes. As for Tim’s other assertion …. " neither Turkoglu nor Bargnani were ever good fits for the Raptors " , I have to disagree. Turk either didn’t fit, or didn’t try to fit. And Andrea – despite his inconsistencies – was (along with Bosh), one of the top front courts in the League – pre-All star game.
.
Did like the comment about how LeBron called out the Raptors, and then proceeded to play with his head up his ass.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on May 16, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Bargnani and Bosh were one of the top front courts in the league OFFENSIVELY. But on the other end of the court, they were never, ever a good fit. Bosh needs to play with a big man who can anchor the defense. And so does Bargnani. Bargnani also needs to play on a team that plays gritty defense, rebounds the ball and who’s players can create. None of that has described the Raptors since Bargnani was drafted.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Lebron...
I dont know about you guys but watching the Cavs series made me wonder as well.
I’ve been a little hard on Bosh,…no playoffs,or never getting out of the first round,all about his numbers blah,blah,blah.
We just watched a team with back to back,60 win seasons,a 2 time mvp,all kinds of additions,Shack/Jamieson…go down the toilet and not getting out of the second round AGAIN,and barelly getting by the Bulls.
The upcoming draft is going to be interesting?,how do we draft,do we keep the pic,trade up,use the pic in a trade?
At the end of the day it all comes down to # 4,period.
Or does it? I think BC already knows the hand he has to play.
A quick look at all the mock draft boards:
Most site have us taking Whiteside,Patterson,Oerton…
I guess looking at the big picture….its pretty blurry.
I agree with Posterized,looks good on the “King”
I actually saw myself cheering for the C"s
Wow what a screwed up world,I was even cheering for the Habs !!!!.
Say What
This article started out positively and quickly tanked after that.
1. Rondo is a better fit for the Celtics than Paul so Ainge made the correct pick
2. The Cavs lost because M. Brown was outcoached again in the playoffs for two years running and
3. The Celtics got back to the EC Finals this season because KG one of the top 50 if not 25 players of all time is almost back to 100%.
4. If Evans had not injured his foot than most likely Johnson doesn’t get the minutes he did and with Bosh only playing 70 games the Raptors would have won fewer than 40 this season not more than 40.
Now I’m confused.
1. I’m not sure how you can say Rondo is a BETTER fit than Paul for Boston – they offer very similar attributes, all of which help the Celtics go. And really – the Rondo note was a sidebar, not the point of the piece.
2. You just can’t pin this all on Mike Brown. Remember when LeBron destroyed the Pistons single-handedly? Where was that LeBron? Where was Jamison? Did he ever fit in the first place? I thought Mike Brown was a HUGE part of the problem but there’s always more factors involved in a loss like this. Read the Sportsguy’s piece, he does a great job of going into this.
3. Rondo was the MVP of that last series. KG was good to great, but I don’t think he was any more valuable than Ray Allen, who was very solid as well.
4. This however is a solid point – perhaps on the other side of the fence, nine new faces DID help Toronto because it allowed guys like Amir and Weems to break through.
The bottom line for me here is BC didn’t learn from the NBA’s past history and whether the nine new faces were the issue or not, it maybe wasn’t such a good idea to try it in the first place.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on May 16, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
and the alternative to that was?
hindsightis 20/20, but if were to start all over again andyou are at the end of last seaon what would you do? what player besides hedo was willing to come to TO? having seen the matrix this year, has it been such a wrong idea to let him go?
there was no alternative
9 new faces is alot but what would you want him to do? stay pat with the roster with only a few moves here and there? umm no we were not a good team so 9 new faces to me would have work..hell we won a divison title with what 7 i believe..and the matrix thing well he wasnt coming back here he wanted to play for a contender its but he really didnt play that well either i mean he didnt even play that much in the last game of the series against the spurs which lend him to make comments about his playing time after the lost.
Not saying what BC SHOULD have done in terms of actual moves – instead, questioning the logic of trying to add SO MANY new parts, especially ones that weren’t necessarily good fits in the first place. The point of the piece really is that chemistry matters a great deal and so instead of calling out mistakes in the past, I’m hoping that the Raps apply this going forward.
And I actually think Marion was very good this year – remember, he’s not 25-year old Marion any more, but I’m 100% certain he would have been a better fit for TO than Hedo.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on May 16, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the issue is that BC felt he pulled magic out of his the first time he threw 9 new players onto the team and he could do it again but instead it was just a smelly fart. He could have sat on that money for this offseason and made some smaller moves and drafted a more NBA ready player taking the lower ceiling for the larger immediate impact. The problem a lot of us have is that he Pooped in a box and called in gold then said it was really poop in a box all along, that is just unacceptable.
which Sportsguy piece?
Just wondering which piece you are referencing here so I read the right one.
Say what now?
1. Ainge never had the chance to pick Paul – they were in different draft years. Rondo turned out to be one of the best players of his class, ahead of second overall pick Marvin Williams, despite not having a jump shot coming out of college.
2. Cavs lost because of a lack of team chemistry, not tactical play calling. You can’t coach chemistry.
3. KG did show up when it mattered, but it was a total team effort, with Rondo leading the way.
4. …and clearly, if Evans didn’t injure his foot the Raps would have won the East.
by kidsantiago on May 16, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
You know that Ainge never had a choice between Rondo and Chris Paul. First of all, they were drafted a year apart, and Ainge never once had a high enough draft pick to pick Paul. If he did, Paul makes just about any team better than the current PG (Utah and Phoenix excluded).
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
TOTALY AGREE WITH POSTERIZED & B.C.
great post and i totally agree with posterized and B.C. with what they said in their comments..lebron just weeks ago was talking all kinds of junk about the raptors heart and their desire to win as an organization.yet watching him embarrass himself by flat out giving up in game 5 and looking disinterested was a disgrace to the cavs and that organization..think about it everyone is saying hes a max player this and that and he is to a certain extand but if ownership who build the best team around you since you’ve been in the NBA and you cant even get them out the SECOND FREAKING ROUND of the playoffs im sorry you aint no max player..the media out right chewed lebron up for the way he played. hurt or not at least put up a fight..great players like jordan or bird wouldnt have given up the way lebron did..and his teammates sure didnt help either.shaq was ok but putting him on KG had to have been the dumbmest coaching move in NBA history..mo williams once again was a no show in the playoffs when they needed him, and antawn was just a no show in the post season as well..and why the hell did they try and get big Z back after trading him away and only used him what?? like 10 minutes in the whole playoffs???? we talk about how the raps would look if bosh leaves and how crappy our team would be..but id bet anything we’ll be a better team than the cavs WHEN lebron is gone cause theres just no way hes staying there after this display and after watching how they played in the playoffs the cavs are not gonna be a very good team for years to come.
Great post and discussion…
Myself, I’d say the biggest parallel between the cavs and raps is the catastrophic effect when a superstar loses faith in his teammates.
I mean bosh and lebron had some talent around them, but they want to set new high marks all the time and all they had to do was look at the team and extrapolate a bit… they probably know where the ceiling is better than anybody….
Completley Unrelated - Delonte West asking for a beatdown!
Completley unrelated…but oh SO FUNNY if true…an oh man Deltone West! Someone is about to get a beat down if true. And I wonder if Lebron knew before…say…game four of the last series.
by WinnipegRaptorFan on May 17, 2010 1:07 PM EDT reply actions
Obviously there had to be changes after we earned the #9 pick. So I don’t fault BC for tossing bodies overboard. But he made the situation what it was – and after his offseason blitz it was clear that the team was going nowhere, fast.
My thought before the season was this:
- The only thing that would have kept Bosh here was Demar Derozan playing like a future all-star and legit second banana.
Clearly, the odds of that happening were not good. And it wouldn’t have been fair to put even more pressure on young DD. It didn’t help my spirits when he came in 2-3 inches shorter and 20-30 pounds lighter than listed, but our FO knew that when we drafted him.
Seems ridiculous, but that’s the scenario Colangelo set up for a realistic shot at keeping Bosh. Or one of our two laziest players playing with some sustained gusto.
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