Future Forecasting - Is 50 Wins Within the Raptors' Reach?
With a day off before Toronto's final match prior to the NBA's All-Star break, Franchise looks at just what the potential of this year's club could be...
Yesterday, while doing some unpacking thanks to a recent move, I got a chance to tune into the Fan 590 to listen to Jack Armstrong and Eric Smith talk some sports.
Besides the usual spread of topics, from hockey to baseball, a question was posed to the listeners;
With the recent success of the Toronto Raptors, the big-name acquisitions by the Toronto Maple Leafs, and the new ownership and management structures with the Blue Jays and Argos, are you as a Toronto sports fan, feeling better about the direction of the city's sports teams?
The answers were mostly of the "yay" variety, however I admittedly found the question itself slightly comical.
I mean, wasn't such a question jumping the gun JUST a bit?
The Leafs are still out of the playoffs, the Jays are mired in what appears to be another long rebuild, who knows (or as one caller put it, "who cares") about the Argos, and for all the recent success of the Raptors, there's still nearly half a season to go, a big question concerning getting out of the first round of the playoffs, and of course, the ever-present shadow of the Chris Bosh situation.
No, I'm not sure I'm quite ready to wave the T-Dot flag high and proud just yet...
But what about the Dinos? I mean, can this club continue to suprise and maybe hit the 50 win plateau? And can they win a playoff round in the process?
The assumption, even when Toronto started to roll last month, was always that the team would peak at 5 in terms of playoff seeding, and probably still bow out in the first round. In fact, until listening to Jack and Eric yesterday, I hadn't even given the other options much thought. Especially since, while this recent swing is nice record-wise, it's not like the Raps are in the Western Conference and have just finished a string of wins over Utah, Portland, Houston, New Orleans etc. The schedule has turned in their favour and while so far they've won most of the ones they should have won, perhaps the true tests of this club's caliber lie at month's end.
However, let's take things one step further.
Prior to the season I had guesstimated a 42 win year, thinking that once the schedule evened out we'd see a good, but not great club; one that usually beat up on lessor foes, but struggled against the big dogs. However with 28 wins, the club is actually on pace for about 45 victories already, and that forecasted win total could jump even higher considering upcoming matches against Philly, New Jersey and Washington.
As mentioned, the schedule toughens up again towards the end of the month, but it's fairly balanced from here on out. So if Toronto won three of their next five (quite plausible considering the aforementioned schedule), and then ONLY went .500 the rest of the way (the remaining 26 games), that would still give them a 44 win season. Add on the fact that Toronto plays more home games than away games the rest of the way, hopefully some good health, and at face value, it would seem that 50 wins isn't out of the question for this team.
Of course winning 50 games means little if the team again can't get out of the first round.
So what about this facet? Does the team have what it takes to make the next step?
I'm not sure as of yet, but I think the two in some ways go hand-in-hand; an ever-improving Raptors' club that can hit that 50 win mark, should also be well on the right path to winning a playoff series. As demonstrated above, Toronto can't just beat up on cream-puff teams to get that "fitty," they'll have to vanquish some solid foes, similar to what they'll face in the first-round of the playoffs.
And to do that, I think there are two main areas that need to improve post All-Star break:
1) Wing play.
This is the most obvious one for fans in all likelyhood (along with improved defence, which we'll get to in a minute) and a quick look at the stats lends even more weight. Currently, Toronto's average PER from the 2 and 3 spot is about 13. The average for opponents? Almost 17.
For this team to take the next step, that simply has to improve, and it starts with The Ottoman himself. Hedo has the the third highest "wins produced" score on the Raptors right now, but he's sagging behind his Orlando averages in this respect. And while others like Sonny Weems, Marco Belinelli and DeMar DeRozan are producing a positive "wins produced" scores, they're not positive by much, and Antoine Wright is dragging things down with a solid -2.1 projected wins produced.
Of course, Antoine has been much better of late and Hedo has shown some signs of life too. If these two get on track and display some consistent traits at both ends, and DeMar DeRozan starts to live up to his draft billing, then suddenly we're talking about a team well on the way to 50.
And let's talk Mr. DeRozan for a second. No one's really focussing on this too much because of his highlight reel dunks and All-Star weekend inclusion, but he really isn't producing enough to be a starter at this point. He's on the court 40% of the game, yet is a team worst -82 in terms of net points, is an offensive liability, and has one of the lowest "win percentage" scores of the entire team. For those who thought that DeMar should be a shoo-in for the rookie game, statistically, it doesn't look to be the case. He's producing only 0.5 wins currently whereas Jonas Jerebko, who many thought robbed DD of his spot, is more than doubling that at 2.6, second-best on the Pistons. Put it this way, Portland's Donte Cunningham has been almost as productive as DeMar by these measures.
2) Defence.
Yes, it's been better of late. No, it's still not exactly "lock-down." We've all seen the stats so perhaps no need to harp too much, but suffice to say that even if the Raps could get into the middle of the pack in terms of defensive efficiency, this club would be that much more deadly.
Raptors' assistant coach Micah Nori was on the Fan590 yesterday talking about the team's defensive schemes and what was encouraging, was the discussion involving late-game situations. Toronto has an overall plan they've put into effect for how they want to guard clubs, but it's late in games when the team needs key stops that they've really started to become effective.
Take the win over Sacramento on Sunday. I didn't think much about this at the time, but in the final quarter, the Raps did an excellent job of getting the ball out of Tyreke Evans' hands and forcing other players to take key shots. Evans as a result finished with a measly 11 points and really wasn't a factor in the second-half of the game.
If Toronto can extend this late-game mentality to matches overall, and tighten up the transition D, this would bode well in not only hitting that 50 plateau, but also advancing past the first round of the playoffs.
And that's really what this is all about right?
If the team wins 50 and gets swept in the playoffs, it's pretty hard to think about that franchise-best win total. The goal here should be to continue to build towards a complete and healthy squad for playoff time, one that not only plays in the extra season, but gets one step beyond.
And forget the Argos and Jays, if the latter should occur, then and only then, will I be able to answer the question posed by Jack and Eric with a resounding yes.
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Comments
cream puffs?
I believe in the cream puff comments but only to certain degree….we did after all beat some pretty good teams……give credit where credit is due.
Playoff picture…..pick your poisson? Celtics,Hawks,Magic,Cavs
I’ll take my chances AGAIN with the Magic.
Celtics….beat us up
Hawks….run by us
Cavs…NBA would never let that happen
Magic….could be our only chance.
I do not necessarily disagree, but with some caveat
Celtics: we met them last at the beginning of this winning stretch. The problem so far has been more mental than anything. Aside of the first game, we have lost to two edition of the Celts that are much worse than other teams we have defeated.
Cavs: Up till now has been the most even confrontation. Yeah, they have Lebron, but their front court is one or two or three steps slower than our.
Hawks: So far they have walked over the Raps, but that was a long way ago and it was a different team.
Magic: Similar pics than the Hawks, we lost to them badly at the beginning of the season and we scored a win in Orlando (were they on a B2B at the time? not sure) we can play with them as long as we can play single DH coverage. If the refs go in superstar call mode during the playoffs with Andrea you have lost your whole D plan and your second best scorer, in other words we would be walking on thin ice.
In relation to Belinelli, I believe he either will be the starter or in he will anyway play a much bigger role starting after the all star game; it is, historically, normal for team playing rookies the first part of the season and tight the rotations towards the end, and DD has not proven to be a difference maker.
In my opinion , a lot boils down to the OttoMan and to the contribution that Reggie Evans will make. No need to waste ink discussing on why the OttoMan has to / can make a better contribution; In relation to Reggie, I believe he could make a difference establishing the pace of the game in term of toughness, against the Hawks and the Celts and could provide some minutes of 1-2-1 coverage against DW. I do not think the Raps start beaten against any of those four teams, moreso if they would manage to get home court advantage in the first round.
No, the string has been
Houston, San Antonio, Orlando, Los angeles. If the W were in a Row, you would run buying the tickets for the finals….
I knew I was forgetting some
Add Dallas to that list
I knew someone was going to bring those clubs up...
…and yes, those wins were solid. But the majority lately have been the Knicks, Pacers (including a loss) and not exactly blow-out wins over Sacto and New Jersey…
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Feb 9, 2010 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
well the schedule is what it is
and Knicks, Pacers, etc play also the other teams,so I do not think you can say we have to thank theschedule
50 baby
I believe there was a post at the beginning of the season where everyone recorded their win predictions. It’s obviously too early to pull those out, but I did call 50 wins and I’m sticking by it. When looking at the pace the Raptors are on, you have to remember that the first handful of games are not representative of this squad as the chemistry hasn’t been developed yet. You can clearly see now that they can be competitive in any game against any team!
I have high hopes. Their current pace has been sustained for long enough (against good and bad teams) that we can now think of this as the norm. I fully expect the Raps to have home court advantage for the first round. How high they end up would depend entirely on how many teams panic and blow things up next week (Celtics anyone?). But a first round matchup against Miami or Chicago sure would be nice. I’ll save the Magic matchup for the second round.
DeRozan
Honestly, it’s difficult to criticize DeRozan’s contribution because he has pretty much done what he’s been asked to do. Actually, if you think about it, the Raps top ten picks of late have not be put in the position where they are expected to save the franchise and thus given the room to just play and develop. I will take heat for this but I honestly think Andrea Bargnani would be better than Brandon Roy RIGHT now, if the Raps at the time of his drafting were in a similar position as other teams who luck into drafting number 1. Bargs came in playing the position of the established star and had to make an adjustment to a different position. The team made the playoffs that first year and Bargs had A LOT to do with it. Roy was just allowed to play the position he was comfortable with, with the ball in his hands a lot as the defacto leader of a young team. As is the case, he became a US media darling and was entrenched as the unquestionable best player from his draft.
Pardon the momentary digression but this is kind of what happened with Vince Carter and Antoine Jamison. Carter got the attention and praise early because he took the reigns of a team that gave him the room to do what he knew how to do already. If memory serves, Jamison was played out of position a little while in his early career. In retrospect, who is the more highly regarded player.
If DeRozan came into a barren landscape of a basketball team and was just given the ball and allowed to do what he needed to, we might be more enthused about the kind of asset he could be on the team. But it’s not like that here with Bosh as the straw that stirs the drink. If Bosh leaves, it will be interesting to see how the team chooses to integrate DeRozan going forward.
It’s far too soon to dismiss DeRozan as a future top-flight player. However, this may be the point in the season when the Raptors need to start getting ready for this year’s playoffs by putting their best lineup on the floor for as long as possible. It may be best for the team – and for DeRozan’s development – if the Raptors give Belinelli a run as the starter and make DD compete with Weems for the backup minutes.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 9, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Why change?
DeRozan is continuing to develop nicely and not hurting the team. Why would you change things up?
Franchise’s point #1 was that he is hurting the team. His defense isn’t there yet and his offense is inconsistent. I’m saying that perhaps the next important step in his development is earning his minutes, rather than being a starter ahead of two players that are outperforming him.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 9, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Lessons from Bargnani
Bargnani was screwed up for a while partly because he was a starter, then he wasn’t, then he was, and then again he wasn’t.
DD Is where he should be, starting the 1st and 3rd quarters and on the floor for as long as he’s contributing. I wouldn’t make a change.
Franchise, sometimes you have to go beyond the stats with a view to the future.
Lessons from Hoffa
Bargnani’s having a much better career. Plus I wasn’t advocating yanking DD in and out of the lineup repeatedly, or making him change positions, or play a style he isn’t used to.
I think starting DD for the first 2/3 of the season was smart. I also think it’s smart that sooner or later he should have to earn those minutes.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 9, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Gotta agree with franchise + backinblack here. Derozan hasnt been bad, but why not use better options down the stretch????
Problem is they should have done this when he came back from injury – now i think its too late. Dont want to yank him in and out like bargs.
by fromlongrange on Feb 9, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Down the stretch, they never use Derozan so that’s not the issue.
Derozan only plays what, 20 mins a game? I think it doesn’t really matter who starts, the more telling stat is who’s playing more minutes and if Beli and Wright get more burn than him that way, I dont see the point of the fuss about Derozan starting or not.
Of two minds
On the one hand, the described situation of having DeRozan compete with Belli and Weems for minutes is the kind of situation you’d want at every position. On the other, DeRozan doesn’t have a strong body of work with regards to his collegiate career. He has individual skills to shore up, and he needs the minutes against live competition to hone how he thinks the game as well.
There was talk earlier in the comments, I think it was renato, about the relative levels of DeRozan and Weems. If you didn’t know about their draft status and age, you would think that weems was the first rounder not derozan, due to overall polish.
I agree with Zona that a longer term view is needed. While his minutes could be scaled back somewhat, if they got too low I would rather he was just sent to the D-League for big minutes. Even if he was the reason why we lost out in the first round, I wouldn’t mind at all. This team doesn’t really go places until he’s up to speed. A rookie season spent in the playing rotation, for someone who takes to instruction as well as he, is the best way to send him into the summer. Send a coach to kick is butt while he bulks up on an NBA weight program, and extends his range past the 3pt line. Hopefully, when he returns he can handle spot minutes at SF in addition to SG.
Weems is ALOT older, spent two years community college, two years at UArkansas. Then spent two years putting up numbers in the D-League alternating with bench stints with the Nuggets. He’s fulfilling the role that we want DeRozan to take (athletic, hustle SG) next year. I’m thrilled to have him on the team, but he’s a one position player who can’t consistently pick up minutes at SF. Maybe now is the time to swap him out for another young wing that can handle both SF and SG. Whether this takes place now, over the summer, or next year, I see it as inevitable. The next step in DeRozan, Weems, and Belinelli’s careers’ is more minutes at SG. This is a good problem to have, but a problem nontheless.
It’s a tough call. I’m not sure I want to yank him completely but I think his minutes should be cut back as we head down the stretch here. It’s a great point that Weems, not DeRozan, looks like the first rounder, but yes, he’s got the experience that DeRozan doesn’t have.
Ideally you’d like to let DeMar learn by fire and run wild, but when the fate of Chris Bosh may indeed hinge on the success of the team this season, I’d have to argue that a bit less DeRozan, and much more Weems, Belinelli and now Wright, would seem to be a good thing.
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Feb 9, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
I have asked this a couple of times.
Marco isn’t all that much older and he is a third year boy who has spent two years sitting. He is NOT a finished product by al stretch of the imagination, isn’t he somebody to make an investment in too? Shouldn’t the same arguments used with DD apply to him too?
That's part of my thinking as well
It’s not like they’d be sitting down DeRozan in favour of Kapono or Parker. The Raptors have other young players who may also get better with more opportunities.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 9, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
By that same argument, Sonny Weems is also the same age as Belinelli and you can tell he’s raw and far from a finished product. Basically, I’m agreeing with you and adding Sonny into your comment.
My point is
while both DD and Weems can jump way more than Marco, doesn’t it seem that Marco is way more talented than them in any other respect? Just to put it in black and white, Marco shoots (way) better, drives better, handles the ball better, passes it better and he has quicker hands on D. It seems to me the guy has yet to get his chance, actually he had it once last year in GS for a stretch of abut 10 games (before getting injured) and he has produced. While I do buy the argument of having him starting from the bench I do not see him getting consistent minutes and it is a shame.
Marco shoots (way) better, drives better, handles the ball better, passes it better
All of this is true when Beli is playing well. It is not true when he is not.
The problem with Beli is that he is so bipolar that you can’t give him consistent minutes. When he’s not going well, he can kill the team’s momentum.
I know it’s a bit chicken and egg, but until he starts showing a bit of consistency in performance, it’s going to be hard to give him consistent minutes.
I love Belinelli for the swagger and fearlessness that he has, but I also wonder each time he’s checking in what we are going to get out of him.
In terms of consistency, yes
With DD, you can pretty much book somewhere around 8 points and two rebounds per game.
With Beli it could 0 points or 17 or anywhere in between. Beli averages higher but when you put him in, you are crossing your fingers and hoping he’s not going to put in one of those 2pt games he occasionally delivers. The problem is that Beli plays in more crucial times than DD.
PS
I do not think he is bipolar, just his shooting is up and down, but as with all shooters it is not easy to get in rytm in limited time…
Bipolar in terms of production. Otherwise he’s been giving a pretty good effort.
There have been a few games where his shot has not been falling and he’s resorted to going to the line to get his points. He just doesn’t do that consistently when that happens.
Don’t get me wrong. I like Belinelli and he does give the team some things that nobody else on the team can provide. He is caught in a bit between a rock and a hard place in that perhaps he needs consistent minutes to produce consistent numbers but he’s not producing consistently enough right now to earn consistent minutes.
He’s a key component on this time so I really hope Triano finds a better way to utilize him and the coaches really work with him to get that consistency. We’re talking about a 23 year old player here. He has lots of room for improvement and lots of time before he reaches his peak. Make the most of it and develop him into something special – a la Ginobili.
Fifty sounds nice, "but consider"
1. Raptors 9-17 on the road, must be better
2. 4 game trip West/ 2BB’s, LAL,SAC,GSW,POR,then
3. ATL/OKC @ home
4. 7 BB’s in last 22 games
5. 5 games left CLE,BOS,ATL 3@home
After the West trip #2, then the next 2 @#3 we should hve a good
Idea of what this team can do, not till then. My guess is 43/44 wins.
Yeah, dont see it. Still think the team just gets over .500 by palyoff time.
by fromlongrange on Feb 9, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
fromlongrange, having DVR issues? Are you watching re-runs from last season?
How could you possibly support the notion that a team that has been playing 0.677 ball over the last 31 games is going to go 14 – 17 down the stretch?
Just amazes me sometimes how some fans just refuse to believe…
Here is how it plays out
Current 28 23
Target 50 32
Required 22 9
The rest of the schedule looks like this:
Wed, Feb 10 Philadelphia 7:00 PM W
Wed, Feb 17 Memphis 7:00 PM W
Fri, Feb 19 @ New Jersey 8:00 PM W
Sat, Feb 20 Washington 7:00 PM W
Wed, Feb 24 Portland 7:00 PM W
Fri, Feb 26 Cleveland 7:00 PM L
Sun, Feb 28 @ Oklahoma City 7:00 PM L
Mon, Mar 1 @ Houston 8:30 PM W
Fri, Mar 5 NY Knicks 7:00 PM W
Sun, Mar 7 Philadelphia 12:00 PM W
Tue, Mar 9 @ LA Lakers 10:30 PM L
Wed, Mar 10 @ Sacramento 10:00 PM W
Sat, Mar 13 @ Golden State 10:30 PM W
Sun, Mar 14 @ Portland 9:00 PM L
Wed, Mar 17 Atlanta 7:00 PM W
Fri, Mar 19 Oklahoma City 7:00 PM L
Sat, Mar 20 @ New Jersey 7:30 PM W
Mon, Mar 22 @ Minnesota 8:00 PM W
Wed, Mar 24 Utah 7:00 PM L
Fri, Mar 26 Denver 7:00 PM L
Sun, Mar 28 @ Miami 6:00 PM W
Mon, Mar 29 @ Charlotte 7:00 PM W
Wed, Mar 31 LA Clippers 7:00 PM W
Sat, Apr 3 @ Philadelphia 1:00 PM W
Sun, Apr 4 Golden State 6:00 PM W
Tue, Apr 6 @ Cleveland 7:00 PM L
Wed, Apr 7 Boston 7:00 PM L
Fri, Apr 9 @ Atlanta 7:30 PM W
Sun, Apr 11 Chicago 6:00 PM W
Mon, Apr 12 @ Detroit 7:30 PM W
Wed, Apr 14 NY Knicks 8:00 PM W
Total wins = 50.
Obviously it won’t play out exactly like that, but for every W they won’t get, there is an L that they may not get.
Since the early struggles, the Raptors have a record of 21W and 10L since they found chemistry. If you believe that they can win the next 3 games against Phi, Mem & NJ, that makes them 24W and 10L, .706 winning percentage. They will then need to go 19W and 9L the rest of the season, .679 winning percentage.
May not happen, but barring injuries, just as likely to happen as it is not.
You have a few I disagree with
Mon, Mar 1 @ Houston 8:30 PM W
2nd night of a back to back on the road against a gritty hardworking team
Mon, Mar 29 @ Charlotte 7:00 PM W
ditto
Fri, Apr 9 @ Atlanta 7:30 PM W
You have us beating Atlanta twice in the remaining schedule. Once is very possible. Twice is unlikely so I’ll take this game as the one you get wrong.
That would still make 47 wins.
on the other hand
He has us loosing at home with Utah and OKC and those are two winnable games…
More problematic are other two, still at home with Denver and Boston which have been booked, again as two L. Two tough game, but automatically two L?
Conservative
That’s why I think 50 is doable. Because for every argument that we won’t get a win in a Charlotte, there is an equal argument that you could put up that we should win the OKC game and I believe the BOS game.
It’s an interesting debate eh? I did some similar math when penning the article late last night and for the winnable games that you know the Raps will drop here and there, there are plenty of ones that look like losses that Toronto is apt to pull off. So 50 wins isn’t a HUGE stretch.
Tough – indeed.
But not out of the question.
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Feb 9, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Atlanta at home should be a W. The last one on the road is a little more dicey but by then, it’s the end of the season and we will be in top form. This one will be our mission statement game heading into the playoffs and a possible second round matchup with the Hawks in the 2-3 spot.
I also gave us an L against the Celtics but that should be a W. We’re due, and the Celtics are aging faster than a fly.
The 50 mark may be a bit of a stretch, but I do think that we will be in the 47 – 50 range trying to pull out the 50 late in the season.
50 wins
Its a nice benchmark but it is impossible to know at this point of the season. What we do know, is that the Raps are starting to get a bit more attention from the US media and we are starting to become a threat. Now is the time to put our heads down, take it one game at a time and start to believe we can beat anybody in the NBA, home or away. The big picture is fun to chat about, but that’s all it is.
What isn’t just chatter is their recent play and their ability to gut out wins. My preseason guess was 48 wins. More important than the win total is the level of play and confidence we go into the playoffs with. The most important thing for the Raptors right now is to build on their success and improve. One game at a time.
US Media Notice
That’s definitely true as those who follow us on Twitter know…last night I called Jalen Rose out regarding his comments about Bosh sticking around (complete 180 from earlier this season), and he tweeted back noting how well the team is playing right now.
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Feb 9, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
If they win 50
is Triano a serious candidate for coach of the year? Especially if OKC and Memphis fall off a bit down the stretch. Wouldn’t that be interesting. I would have to prepare myself some crow for dinner that night.
47 is all we need
We get 47 wins and you can chalk up Bosh for first team honors and put his pen to paper, cuz that guy will not be goin nowhere. Now, if we can just trade Calderon for assets we should be just fine.
just a thought..
let DD start for now… chemistry is ok and getting better… bench play is good because players know their roles & comfortable w/ it… so just leave it for now & dont fix what is not broken.. & like earlier comments said it’s who are finishing games that should be more in focused than who is starting. Godbless


















