"Pass the OJ...

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 9, 2010 11:43 AM EST

because I got juice, I lay more chicks than mother goose." Alright I don't, but that was a classic line. Thank you to a very young Tom Green.

OJ Mayo is not thriving as a bench player in Memphis. The development of Gay, Conley and Marc Gasol has made his scoring much less important.

Should the Raptors make a play for this guy? Could they get this guy? I would say yes on both counts.

Since OJ Mayo is not really playing well or contributing for Memphis right now, and more importantly, I think they would deal him if the right package came along. I think the Raptors could put together such a package...I have used my imagination to come up with such a package...

How about completing a simultaneous two part trade since the TPE and players can't be dealt together. That's what Brian Colangelo did when he made the trade (trades) with New Orleans.

1) Use the TPE plus the Miami pick in exhange for Marco Jaric and OJ Mayo.

That would save Memphis a ton of cash, and get them a chance at a player next year. The trade would leave a scoring void on their bench though.

Hello Leandro Barbosa...

2) Deal The Brazilian Blur for Hasheem Thabeet and DeMarre Carroll (expiring).

Unlike OJ Mayo, Barbosa is accustomed to coming off the bench. Despite being drafted extremely high, like DeMarre Carroll, Hasheem Thabeet's production would not be missed.

OJ Mayo would give Toronto that young dynamic scoring guard that we are hoping either DeMar DeRozan or Sonny Weems will grow into.

This way we have some choices as for what to DeMar and Sonny. Obviously we could resign Sonny and keep them both along with Mayo. Or we could trade one of them if it would land something useful.

Hasheem Thabeet does not seem likely to figure things out, and would likely just be overpaid this year and next. You just never know though....Athletic 7 foot 3 players are pretty rare. I would be willing to overpay him for a year and a half while the Raptors are expected to go nowhere.

If the light were to suddenly turn on for Hasheem Thabeet like they recently have for Darko Milicic, he could even become the most valuable part of the deal. That's very unlikely, but I could live with just getting OJ Mayo.

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re: Memphis trading Mayo

First off, thanks Jumpshooter for posting this. In a season where we’re building up to something, its fun to speculate as to how to move the pieces we have.

I’m going to start by saying by looking at things from Memphis’s point of view. They’ve got a player who was taken…third overall in 2008, so not that long ago. He was also traded for Kevin Love, who is absolutely tearing it up this year. So we’ve established that they made a considerable amount of investment in OJ both in draft position, assets (moving up likely cost them a low first rounder or high second rounder in addition to taking on some unfavorable contracts like Jaric from Minny) , and the salary of a number three pick. Let’s also factor in the fact that he hasn’t approached his make or break year before he becomes a restricted free agent. He’s on the third year of his rookie deal, and circumstances seem to favor the GM sitting tight in this instance.

BC had quite a bit of resources, and ego tied up in drafting Andrea Bargnani, and he didn’t throw in the towel during the rough patches in his development.

I would also cite the fact that usually trading expiring contracts works for players that were drafted in the mid late portions of the draft. Players like Belinelli and Julian Wright. When drafted that low, these players usually have a few things keeping them from being considered strong starters.

Memphis is hard up for cash, and owner would probably go for a deal that worked from both a talent and financial standpoint. However, it would be more likely for players who they haven’t offered an extension to, players that they no longer see as part of the plan. Those players would be easier to “write off” and accept a role player and cap savings. Another avenue would be pursuing players like the mentioned Demarre Carroll, or Sam Young, who were drafting later in the first round to be role players.

The two part trade thinking is sound, BC has already taken that route with the failed deal with Charlotte, and the Bayless deal to Sacromento.

by Yardly on Dec 9, 2010 12:29 PM EST reply actions

They’ve got a player who was taken…third overall in 2008, so not that long ago.

True

He was also traded for Kevin Love, who is absolutely tearing it up this year. So we’ve established that they made a considerable amount of investment in OJ both in draft position, assets

Yes they did make a big investment in OJ when they picked him high. You are right that teams are hesitant to part with players that they have recently spent high draft picks on, but the past is the past and it should not matter. OJ is currently wasting away on their bench. He is not even performing well as a 6th man. Barbosa is probably better in that role.

Financially, they just made a much bigger investment in Mike Conley and Rudy Gay. Those guys are locked up and obviously not going anywhere. Gay’s improved ability to score the ball and increased usage rate takes away from the usefulness of Mayo. Conley’s usage rate increase also takes away slightly from the potential of Mayo.

He was also traded for Kevin Love, who is absolutely tearing it up this year.

I know that fans have a hard time forgetting about past mistakes, but teams should not operate in the present based on what has happened in the past.

I would also cite the fact that usually trading expiring contracts works for players that were drafted in the mid late portions of the draft.

Probably true, because owners don’t want to make moves that could appear like what they did in the past was a mistake or no longer fits. However, that does not make it a rule, or even the right way to operate.

Memphis is hard up for cash, and owner would probably go for a deal that worked from both a talent and financial standpoint.

This deal would save them over 8 million dollars this year if it were made right now (11 million in salary difference for a year adjusted based on a quarter of the season being done). It would also save them over 2 million dollars next year, even once you factor in singning the draft pick that they would get via the Miami pick I suggested including.

I do not think this year’s Memphis team would be any worse off with Barbosa off the bench compared to Mayo (currently producing very little) and Thabeet/Carroll (producing nothing).

I actually think the biggest obstacle to this deal would be that the Raptors would not want to take on all that salary this year for a move that would not make them an immediate threat to win some playoff games.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 9, 2010 1:40 PM EST reply actions

I just don’t see the kind of deal weighted in financials ever happening only two years out of the draft, at least not if I was at the draft table. Yes, Beasley was traded in such a deal, but I think Miami may have held on to him to, for at least one more year, if they hadn’t had the big three poised to scoop up all those free agency dollars.

If the Raptors were able to ante up a piece of interest from their young core, then I could see that discussion going somewhere. For all the talk of financial distress on teams in general, I have rarely if ever seen significant assets traded for what amounts to salary relief. It would be a VERY tough sell to fans. I also believe that if he was available for expirings, there would be a bidding war and pretty soon the asking price has gone up. I don’t see anything in our package that the other teams with s TPE (Cleveland among them) can’t match.

I don’t think it is uncommon for a team to hold on to a player, even when the team has evolved in such a way that the player’s contributions are reduced. The GM knows if the problem is the player or the situation, and if its the situation then they will fish for offers which come closer to matching Mayo’s potential value on a team that needs and has a place for his skills.

I will admit that I don’t have any direct knowledge of his game aside from hearing things third hand through various media sources. He sounds like a player that fills it up via jumpshots, and is someone that doesn’t have the hops to finish strongly at the hoop. I’ll take your word for the fact that he has the potential to be a featured scorer on this team, hence why your willing to take on all that extra cash. It’s my position that we’d have to ante up more then that, since they aren’t the motivated sellers that Miami was when trading Beasely last offseason. If DeRozan or Weems had a longer track record, I could see them being included in the package along with the Miami first, and taking back a significant chunk of current and future salary. However, they remain inconsistent and haven’t established their place in the league yet.

How does OJ Mayo compare to Bayless as a scorer. Could we have a reasonable approximation if we give Bayless the chance to develop.

by Yardly on Dec 9, 2010 2:11 PM EST reply actions

Talented players do get traded to save money by

a) teams that don’t want to spend or are not doing well financially

ie Al Jefferson to the Jazz

b) teams that want to have money to spend on free agents

ie Michael Beasley

I think the Grizzlies satisfy both points. They are in financial difficulty and do not want to spend. Yet they would like to spend money next year on Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol . Both guys are free agents to be, both are more important to the Grizzlies right now than OJ Mayo.

I knowthat the move only would save them a few million next year, but there is no better time to save/lose money than in the present thanks to a little thing called compound interest. 8 million dollars saved this year would be huge for them if they want to save up to spend over the next few years.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 9, 2010 2:17 PM EST reply actions

The point about Zach Randolph and Gasol being up for extensions is a very good one. Adding that to the money paid to Gay and Conley this past offseason, and their internal budget is likely stressed.

I can’t completely rule anything out. I could not believe the trade which had Hedo’s contract going out of town and Barbosa coming in. The Suns basically took on two extra years of Hedo in order to keep treading water in the Western Conference.

re: MLSE, I think BC would have to make the case that the player coming in was someone that the organization would have a hard time obtaining any other way. This stipulation would likely come into effect when the balance between salaries out and salaries in was significant. I don’t know if making the playoffs would be a stipulation to vast amounts of money, hasn’t been that way for the Leafs has it (cheapshot I know). Bringing in someone capable of being marketed to the masses ala Dion Phaneuf, that’s probably more on the mark.

In our current state, I see little use in just letting the TPE expire. I think we can start recruiting significant free agents once the teams core has developed to the point where they are making the playoffs year after year. The catch is that we need to look for teams like Memphis where extra dollars taken on can mean better talent coming the other way.

For anyone that follows fantasy bball, there’s always a blurb on how much of a mess the Sacramento Kings rotation is, with players rotating between starting, bench, and dog house. Perhaps we can pick up some talent there, since they have yet to find a mix that they can stick with for any period of time. Everyone aside from DeMarcus Cousins and Tyreke Evans would seem like fair game.

By the by, have a feeling that either Utah (via Boozer signing in Chicago), Suns (via Amare signing in New York), or Minnesota via Al Jefferson being traded to Utah is the third team with the large TPE.

by Yardly on Dec 9, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions

I don’t see anything in our package that the other teams with s TPE (Cleveland among them) can’t match.

How many teams have the 12 million dolar TPE needed to take Jaric and Mayo off Memphis? To my knowledge only Toronto and Cleveland.

Do I think Cleveland would be smart to try and get Mayo, probably, but I do not know enough about them to argue that they should too.

However, does Cleveland have a talented 6th man type with a short contract like Barbosa to include to take the role Mayo is currently supposed to be filling? I don’t think so.

Does Cleveland have a spare first rounder kicking around like the Raptors Heat pick? I have no idea.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 9, 2010 2:21 PM EST reply actions

I’ll take your word for the fact that he has the potential to be a featured scorer on this team, hence why your willing to take on all that extra cash.

It would be worth it to me to take on all the extra cash this year.

A) Because they get a young talent on an affordable contract, who has proven more than Weems/DeRozan

B) It would mean they could not use the TPE/Barbosa to make the team a playoff team this year

C) Most importatnly – it is not my money. I doubt the Raps would take on all this money this year. I think it would be smart though. I believe Mayo would look very good for us next year. Hopefully, he would be playing along side a well calculated high draft pick too.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 9, 2010 2:25 PM EST reply actions

How does OJ Mayo compare to Bayless as a scorer. Could we have a reasonable approximation if we give Bayless the chance to develop.

I would hope that Bayless would stay, and play as a back up 1/2 getting 20-25 minutes. I think Bayless could fill Barbosa’s current role very nicely.

I know I will get some heat for this, but I personally would look to trade DeRozan or Weems either this year or in the off-season if we got Mayo.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 9, 2010 2:28 PM EST reply actions

This is a player with a pretty low ceiling in my opinion. He’s a small SG (6’4) who can’t move over to PG. He’s not particularly athletic and doesn’t defend his position particularly well. He does one thing well – shoot. I’d say he’s more of a shooter than a scorer.

In other words, I’m not saying he couldn’t help out in the short term, but I don’t know if he’s a really vital piece on a winning team. You say he isn’t thriving on the bench, but I see his ceiling as basically that of a solid bench player – maybe 6th or 7th man, a guy who can come in and heat it up if needed.

(Then again I was against the deal for Bayless, and I’m liking what I’m seeing for him. Mayo is young too. So what do I know.)

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Dec 9, 2010 2:28 PM EST reply actions

Ideally, I would like to see a swingman who is more of a stat stuffer coming in either one way or another. Marion was on the downside, but I think he showed that a SF with above average rebounding, defensive and finishing skills would be a good add on a Raptor front court. These players are rare, but I think they are worth targeting in the draft, since what they lack in fancy moves they make up for in making everyone else’s life easier.

by Yardly on Dec 9, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions

Ideally, I would like to see a swingman who is more of a stat stuffer coming in either one way or another. Marion was on the downside, but I think he showed that a SF with above average rebounding, defensive and finishing skills would be a good add on a Raptor front court.

If the Raptors were to wait the mandatory 60 days after a trade before redealing a guy and Philadelphia continues to struggle maybe the following would be doable.

Marco Jaric’s expiring plus DeMar DeRozan for Iguodola. That would just work under the rules of the CBA, could be done before the Feb. 24th deadline, and would save the 76ers a lot of money.

The Raptors would then have Mayo and Iggy on the wings without having time to make too much of a run in the standings, thus preserving a decent drafting spot.

We would need to draft well because we would be void of a star, but I think Iggy, Mayo, Andrea and Amir would provide a nice blend of defence and offence.

I have stated before that I think Iggy is too expensive, and I do. However, I would be intrigued by that group of players…

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 9, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions

This is a player with a pretty low ceiling in my opinion.

I would agree with this to a certain extent. I think he showed what his ceiling was the last couple of years in Memphis when he averaged about 18 points per game with solid percentages for a guy who shoots a lot of threes. On a good team, like I would like the Raptors to be in 2 years, I think Mayo could be a 15 point scorer.

He’s not particularly athletic and doesn’t defend his position particularly well.

He definitely does not have the athletic ability of DeMar or Sonny, but he is athletic.

I think he is a decent defender, which is rare for a shooter, but do not have effeciency stats to back that opinion up.

but I see his ceiling as basically that of a solid bench player – maybe 6th or 7th man, a guy who can come in and heat it up if needed.

I do not see his ceiling as much higher than that, but I think he could be a nice scoring/decent defending 2. Kind of what people are hoping that Sonny/DeMar will be.

If you put him beside a slashing defensive minded SF. He would do very well.

Memphis has too many scorers for him to be useful. Toronto currently has one scorer.

Bargnani could use a guy to kick out to out of the post that can hit shots. Mayo could get Bargnani some of those assists that people have been arguing over whether or not he should/could get.

The biggest obstacle/reason to not get him would be that the Raptors would have to pay out a ridiculous amount of money this year to do it. That is why the deal is unlikely to do it. Marc Cuban does not own this team!

I feel overpaying on contracts this year and next would not be a bad thing. You do not want any long term bad contracts on the team in 2 years because once Jose is off the books, they have a chance to have no really bad contracts, and may have a chance to be contenders.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 9, 2010 2:55 PM EST reply actions

18 a game

I hate to say this about Mayo, since he seems like a real class act. But lots of guys in the NBA can score 18 a game. To me, it’s how you do it and on what team you do it that counts. Mayo to me just has the look of the “best player on a bad team” – there’s lots of guys like this – he’ll get his numbers, but not on a great team.

Also, you say he’s not exactly unathletic, and I agree. But are there any real unathletic wing guys in the league? Or, let me put it another way: can you name me a single 2 in the league who is less athletic than him? I’m sure there are some guys, but they probably have 4-5 inches on Mayo.

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Dec 11, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions

Or, let me put it another way: can you name me a single 2 in the league who is less athletic than him? I’m sure there are some guys, but they probably have 4-5 inches on Mayo.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 11, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions

Oops, I was trying to use your question as a quote, but hit post by accident.

Or, let me put it another way: can you name me a single 2 in the league who is less athletic than him? I’m sure there are some guys, but they probably have 4-5 inches on Mayo.

He measured 6’4.25 (6’6 wingspan) at the NBA combines, that is a little small for sure, but I do not think there are many 6’8/6’9 twos that are as athletic/fluid as Mayo. When testing for the draft he had a 35 inch vertical, and he had some of the quickest speed times of eligle players. He had a lane agility time of 11.04 and 3.14 3/4 court sprint. Those numbers reflect an athletic player.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 11, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, but like I said, what player at that position is unathletic? You say there aren’t “many 6’8/6’9 twos that are as athletic/fluid as Mayo.” But the point is that as an undersized 2, he has to be way more athletic than those guys to compete. He just isn’t. I stand by my point: I can’t think of a single starting 2 in the league who brings less to the table from a physical standpoint than Mayo.

Again, I hate to say it, because from everything I’ve seen, Mayo’s a class act. But check out the comments here, they’re very instructive. Kind of funny, because in a way I think he’d fit way better with the Wolves than with the Raptors. The last thing the Raptors need is another finesse guy who isn’t disruptive on defence.

He’d bring nice numbers, but not more wins. Best player on a bad team.

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Dec 11, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions

I have never been trying to hype him as amazing, just a good young piece. If I thought he was great, I would not suggest that he could be had. Memphis simply would not let him go.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 11, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions

Very Interesting Idea

I’ll have to give this some more thought but at face value, the OJ move makes a lot of sense, especially because Memphis has paid so much for Conley and Gay. I’m wondering if the Raps couldn’t send Weems or DeRozan over (both relatively low salaries) to clear up the glut at the 2 as well.

I don’t love Mayo, he’s a volume guy, but he’s being severely underutilized in Memphis right now, and considering it’s the Grizz we’re talking about, could be had for very cheap.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 10, 2010 5:28 PM EST reply actions

I'm not sold

on any Mayo move… team needs D not more O, dedicated effort not game-in game-out style effort and thats all you are getting from Mayo. Like you said he is a volume shooter… again not something this team needs.

On top of all that… he hasn’t proven anything other than he has ‘potential’… and who doesn’t start in the NBA with ‘potential’? It concerns me that a mediocre to bad team, with limited talent and playoff aspirations not only moved him to the bench, but also cut his minutes (ie. he isn’t a Terry/Ginobli style 6th man) and started a rookie over him. I can’t say I know all in regards to Mayo… but thats a pretty damning indictment of him I would think.

In all honesty I never really thought he would ever amount to much more than the ‘Iverson type’… and I still don’t think thats changing. Sometimes a change helps guys, other times they just are who they are….

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 12, 2010 7:51 AM EST up reply actions

More interested in Thabeet

I like this whole trade though the thabeet part of it looks more interesting to me. Thabeet seems like the perfect fit for the raps right now, bringing defense and amazing athleticism. Thabeet has Dwight Howard potential on defense, obviously his offensive game hasn’t matured but he’s got to be better then reggie.

by Zack Hendo on Dec 15, 2010 1:22 AM EST reply actions

How many people would do this? Kleiza and Weems for OJ Mayo plus an expiring like DeMarre Carroll.

I personally do not think that would be quite enough to get Mayo, but I am wondering how many people think it would be worth it?

If the Grizz are in fact desperate to dump to dump Thabeet and the offer above would not be quite enough, maybe a separate deal of Thabeet for the TPE would get it through.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 15, 2010 9:49 AM EST reply actions

I think Mayo is still worth quite a lot, i would definately do both trades if they could happen, I don’t see weems or kleiza being worth much though, mayo used to be talked about as the next Lebron when he was in highschool so i doubt your getting him that easy.

by Zack Hendo on Dec 15, 2010 4:37 PM EST reply actions