Tip-In: Inches - Felton's 3 Gives Knicks the Win Despite 41 from Raptors' Bargnani

but what would it take to our # 7 to be considered a grade A talent? Before the usual self appointed oracles scream D, let me ask, do you consider Amare a grade A talent? if yes, can we talk about his D? They did their best to to have him defending Andrea as he would have been constantly beaten.

I believe that is (yet again) a transition season for Andrea. I am sure more than somebody (including the coaching staff) has bough into the idea of running the offense trough him and I believe we’ll see more of that till he’ll earn to be a consistent passer out of the low post. We did not win yesterday because of poor wing production. Bring in a legitimate 3 and yesterday’s game does not get to the buzzer…

“I don’t think the offence should move through Bargnani at all. He hasn’t shown an ability to pass the ball (unless you think 1 assist per game is the sign of a great distributor with superior court vision). Bargs needs to move without the ball, find his spot and get his feet set. If they take away his shot or if the openings present themselves, attack the basket.”

by RaptorsHQ – Defensive Stance on Dec 6, 2010 9:36 AM PST

“Even Flow
Yesterday Andrea DID get the ball in the post. But the majority of the time he turned, faced up, and then made his move.

He might be a "skilled passer." But rarely do you see him actually pass the ball resulting in scoring plays. Neither the stats nor the eye test back it up. He’s averaged less than 2 assists a game, year after year, when he has the highest or near highest usage rate on the team is someone who facilitates motion on offence.

It’s like saying DeRozan’s an excellent 3-point shooter!"

Adam Francis – Publisher – RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ – Franchise on Dec 6, 2010 11:33 AM PST

I feel vindicated. The above are some of the responses to a post I made after the Knicks/Raptors game last week.

I think what this shows us is the writers on the blog, DS especially have no clue what they are talking about.

Andrea had a great game last night, was great on offense and did a good job on defense contrary to what some will say. Would I have liked to see Andrea shut down Amare in the 4th, absolutely but Amare is playing fantastic right now and he hit his jumpers, eventually Andrea will learn to make those stops.

biggest difference= 50 million $$$$$$

I think I’m considered to be in the pro-Andrea camp. Something I’d like to see Andrea work on a bit is a particular aspect of his rebounding: there are simply too many times when he’s the first guy to get his hand(s) on the ball, but it ultimately ends up in the hands of the other team. I don’t know if it’s a question of his hands not being as physically strong as other bigs, or whether it’s simply a mental/attitude/emotional thing. But I’d like to see that part of his game improve, and I think it’s something that a good coaching staff would address.

Everyone’s talking about how he could’ve done more on Defence, and while that may be true, someone go check out Raptors Republic’s analysis of the game. I agree completely that you’re not helping Bargnani AT ALL by playing KLEIZA as his front court mate. Seriously? Does no one else see this? What is he supposed to do when there is NO legitimate defensive presence on the court…

Anyone replay that 5 second count? They didn’t show the replay on TV, no, they were too busy queing up the next highlight to show during live game action. But if you rewond your PVR, you can clearly see the ref starting his 5 count before the ball gets to Kleiza. In fact, when Kleize gets the ball, he’s already at 1.

Blatant!

I can’t seem to stay back and its because of the unfairness. Those that continue to trash Bargs have developed this unique way to always dismiss offense and high lite these un measurable quanities like defense, and consistancy.
He must be the only center playing in the nba expected to produce these biased expected results every night. So then they say “no not every night but he has to be more consistant” but by who’s measure? Its just up to Ds, or Mas or Franchise to arbitrarily declare what is “consistent”. Show me one good player in the league that is good at every aspect of the game every night. For that matter show me a superstar who can’t improve in some area.
The other thing is that they seem to have the licence to declare his scoring as marginally important. Here’s a guy that scored 41 points last night, how many players in the nba will score 40 this year, or 30 for that matter.
I must not be watching the same games. I see him help on defense, I see him sprinting back, I see him block shots. He’s an average defender but who cares, he’s got a gift that few 7 footers have and thats the ability to put the ball in the hoop.
This criticism of Bargs is so obviously biased by some type of personal dislike, it is just crazy.
 

Seriously, the Andrea back and forth has reached epic proportions. While some of its fun to read, and I myself have partaken in it on more than one occassion, I feel like the positions on him are so extreme that a realistic view of him is getting harder to grasp.

But let me try:

Offensively he’s the most talented on the team and should be the guy that the offensive runs through because he is the only one that can consistently draw a double team.

The passing last night was a revelation, and if he can continue to draw doubles and pass it like that, we will be a much better team in the long run. Until last night, I didn’t think he had that in him. I hope to see alot more of it.

I think he gets into trouble on offense sometimes because he can do so many things. He reminds me of a pitcher that has 4 great pitches but can’t get any of them over for strikes on a consistent basis. If you can’t throw strikes, it doesn’t matter how good your stuff is.

Andrea has some stage presence, which is something most (Bosh included) don’t have. You could actually hear a collective gasp from the crowd when Andrea lined up for that 3 in the 4th last night. He’s just one of those players, that when he gets going, you get the feeling that he’s not going to miss. That’s a star quality.

Defensively, Andrea still isn’t good; but I’ve seen improvement. He’s moving his feet better and more consistently this year than in previous years, but his reaction times on the help side are still poor. If he was a 1 out of 10 last year, I’d say he’s been about a 3 this year; not good, but better.

Last night, while the pick and roll D wasn’t good, that’s as much Calderon’s fault as Andrea’s. What was really bugging me was the elbow jumpers that Amare was nailing. Simply put, Andrea didn’t keep his hand up to contest the shot. Every time he dropped it, Amare took the shot. I don’t know if you chalk that up to laziness or fatigue from carrying the team for 4 quarters, but that was the weakest part of his D last night if you ask me.

Finally, and I think this should not be lost sight of, Andrea’s made strides with consistency this year, which is probably all we can ask for as fans. We aren’t getting “Good Andrea” for 1 out of every five games or for 1 quarter of a game. He’s had his off nights, but for the most part since the Washington game, the effort’s been there.

He needs to score, if he scores, well he should have rebounded better. If he rebounds and scores, did he get enough assists. If he scores, rebounds and passes well, then was his +/- up there. And if all was good including the +/- then what about his “help defense”. And if all else fails, it’s “well he had a decent game this time but he needs to be consistant”.
I can’t wait till he meets all these great expectations, he’ll be changing in a phone booth at mid court and leaping buildings in a single bound.

but word today is kyrie irving might be done for the rest of the season with a serious toe injury..maybe his stock with drop cause of this and we’ll get our point guard.

andrea is the best offensive big man in the NBA hands down

bargnani’s value is probably through the roof right now because of his 10 mil a year deal. I bet we could get a real center for him

Bargs is actually making 8.5 million, and Amare is making twice that, but who`s counting.

“Money is not the most important thing in the world. Love is. Fortunately, I love money.” – Jackie Mason

I’m still trying to understand certain fans out there, who see think our greatest weakness is a real Centre, and that Bargs is counterproductive to a winning team. One thing is for sure, Andrea ain`t inviting Dave Berri over for lasagna.

The short of it is, some fans – while never admitting it, as it would affect their Bias standing – would simply be overjoyed if the 7 foot Italian was traded. Of course, incidental to all that, is this “magically delicious” idea that teams are just dying to give us a real Centre.
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Being away recently – and disconnected from the last couple of games – I finally got a chance to watch the New York game (via PVR – a great invention). Prior to this, my only connection to this match-up was thru:

http://www.raptorshq.com/2010/12/8/1864810/game-day-thread-toronto-raptors-vs-new-york-knicks.

And if I didn’t know better, I would’ve thought Bargs was having one of his worst nights on the Defensive end – and despite good scoring, was a negative. And not just in the +/- category. I guess that’s why I look at stats as having a subjective quality – and how one sees the numbers. Something to be said for actually watching the game.
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With this game, I eventually came to the conclusion that this was more a Raptor loss than a Knick win. Despite it being so – technically. Rookie Inexperience mistakes, and Kleiza + Barbosa veterans not being veteran enough were part of the reasons for missing a win. 6-18 will not cut it when playing a team that is currently in the zone.
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That said, it’s games like these that are an ideal way to illustrate Raptor needs. For the most part, Bench is not one of them (Centre excluded). Starters could sure use a younger Barbosa clone, but one with that .475 average from a few years back. Hopefully a little more Ed. And some Alabi. Why not? – Where we going. We need to test our strengths this year – not next. These games will help us refine those needs. And once the season is final, Raps can then focus on finding a jewel & diamond in the rough. We have 2 shots at both those items, so who knows. Hopefully the search includes a PG / Centre / SF – in that order.
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