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3 in the Key - Raptors' Game-Day Preview vs. The Knicks


After two straight wins, the Toronto Raptors have now lost two straight, both in slightly ugly fashion.  The team tries to get back on the right track tonight with a rematch against the Knicks...

Star-divide

As of this morning, the Toronto Raptors sit a fraction out of 8th place in the Eastern Conference.

The standings are:

1.  Boston Celtics

2.  Orlando Magic

3.  Atlanta Hawks

4.  Chicago Bulls

5.  Miami Heat

6.  New York Knicks

7.  Indiana Pacers

8.  Charlotte Bobcats

 

The Raps, with an identical 8 and 13 record as the 'Cats, are 0 and 1 against Charlotte this season, hence the 9th ranking as opposed to being tied for 8th or even ahead.

Yesterday in the comments section I noted that it seemed that teams in the East could probably start to be "tiered" to a certain degree so that five tiers would present themselves when all was said and done.

In the first tier, the Celtics and Magic, clearly the cream of the Eastern crop.

There's of course a chance a healthy Bulls and Heat join them, but right now, they seemed to be a tier below that.

The Hawks, minus Joe Johnson, I felt would inhabit a tier 3 to themselves.

In the fourth tier, two teams, the Knicks and the Pacers.  I was skeptical earlier in the season of the Knicks, but having seen them recently, they look to be a true playoff team in the East, and are still missing a few important pieces like Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike.

Finally, the fifth tier.

And right now, it's anybody's game.

If the Milwaukee Bucks can get healthy then I actually expect we'll see them in that third tier with the Hawks when all is said and done, and then the East's playoff spots will be pretty locked-up.  But should they continue to struggle, then really, that 8th spot is anybody's for the taking.

Philly?  Detroit?  Cleveland?  New Jersey?  Charlotte?  Washington?  And yes Toronto?

These are not good teams.

Just take a look at this hilarious montage put together by NBA Playbook.com from last Friday's Nets vs. Bobcats match if you don't think so...

My point is that while some tend to view this season's coverage of the Raptors as about as bi-polar as it comes, the reality is that Toronto may simply make the playoffs based on how being the "lesser of the leasts" so to speak.  I'm sure from here on out they'll win some big games, like the recent W's against Boston and OKC, and yet they'll drop some matches they also should easily have won.  But it's quite possible that again this season, fans find themselves in the unenviable position of having to decide between a possible first round thrashing at the hands of the Celtics, and a low lottery pick.

No shot at the top 5?

I don't think so and here's why.

Barring a major slide, improvements via trade by some of the other Eastern Conferences bottom-feeders, or a rash of Dino-injuries, teams like Washington, Cleveland and Philly look to be set for the very bottom.

As well, even a bottom finish doesn't guarantee you a top 3 spot, look at the Nets last year.

Compound these notes with the fact that the West is guaranteed to produce a few top 3 options (Sacto and Minny look like good bets) simply because they play against much tougher competition on a nightly basis, and unfortunately I think Toronto ends up drafting right around where it drafted last year, in that 10 to 13 range.

It's a bit of a strange thought actually, especially considering the loss of Chris Bosh etc, but a bit like the Jays divisional woes, the Raps to me this year look to be a victim of their surroundings.

One of the teams that is influencing said surroundings is the New York Knicks, Toronto's opponent again this evening.  And as our interns point out this morning, while NYC is ahead of TO in the standings, let's not confuse this club with the Magic or C's yet.  I asked each to fire me over a stat about the Knickerbockers that they found interesting, and here are their submissions:

 

New York Knicks fans have a lot to be pleased about, comfortably sitting in the 6th seat in the Eastern Conference and currently riding a 5-game winning streak. The Knicks are road warriors winning 7 consecutive games away from home, but their winning ways haven't carried over to the Garden. The New York Knicks are at a dismal 4-5, and they are the only playoff ranked team in the NBA with a less than .500 home record.

Danilo Gallinari is the team's worst offender in their home game woes. On the road, Gallo is averaging 17 PPG and shooting 43 per cent from behind the arc, but at MSG he's averaging 13 PPG and is shooting less than 30 percent from the three-point line. His numbers on the road are eerily close to those in the wins vs. losses. Gallo has only hit on 11 three pointers at home, but he is still ranked 8th in Three Point Field Goals Made in the league (44). If the Raptors want to snap their mini two game slump they have to make sure Gallinari doesn't get hot. It's a task easier said than done.


Home Games:  12.6 PPG   27 3P%
Losses:       11.7 PPG  19 3P%
______________________________
Road Games:   16.8 PPG  43 3P%
Wins:              17.4 PPG     48 3P%

 

Jeyan Jeganathan

Despite their 13-9 record, the New York Knicks' season can be compared to the strange case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Winners of 10 of their last 11 games, it is a mystery as to why the Knicks, who were considered to be a playoff bound team going into the season, are only four games over the five hundred mark. The 11 different teams that the Knicks have beaten combine for a meagre winning percentage of .359, with a less than impressive 80-143 combined record.

While it appears that they have feasted on the weak (the only teams with winning records that they have beaten are Chicago and New Orleans), Amare and co. have also fallen victim to their apparently weaker foes, as teams that they have lost too combine for a paltry .467 winning percentage and herald a mediocre 85-97 combined record. This is the Knicks' most telling stat of the season for two reasons. On one hand, the Knicks have only played five teams with a winning record all-season, and despite their incredibly easy schedule, they have only managed to win 13 games. For a team that many people believe will go deep into the playoffs, one has to ask them self a simple question. What happens when they start playing competitive teams like the Spurs, the Magic or the Lakers?

Sean Tepper

If the 2006-07 Suns were a Mac, then the 2010-11 Knicks are a PC. This year's Knicks are a typical D'Antoni team: near the top of the league offensively but defensively challenged. While their 13-9 record is auspicious, it should be taken with a grain of salt. New York has been the recipient of an early Christmas gift from David Stern and the NBA schedulers. So far, the Knicks' opponents have the league's worst winning percentage at .415. The teams that have beaten the Knicks have allowed a combined 100.1 points (around the league average), Toronto's average currently stands at 103.8. The key to defeating the Knicks for the first time in three tries for the Dinos will be holding their ground defensively, and especially containing the red-hot Amar'e.

Gabe Lee

51 three pointers have been attempted by the Knicks in their last 2 games against the Raptors, both Toronto losses.

It is no secret that D'antoni's team have fallen in love with the triple, but they become ruthlessly effective when the Raptors wing players are late on their close outs. Amare Stoudemire is a beast and against the Raptors front court he is sure to have a great game. When he starts to command double-teams, it only creates more open looks for his teammates, and in order to win this game the Raptors need to limit the amount of quality shots the supporting cast gets. It might just become a case of letting Stoudemire get his, and focusing on completely shutting out the supporting cast. And more than anything, this game is about pride. After getting spanked on their home floor twice by the Knicks and outworked by the Pacers, this contest screams statement game.

Sasha Kalra

2010-11 New York Knicks: 1.31 point/shot (league lead at 1.32)

2004-05 Phoenix Suns: 1.29 (regular season), 1.32 (postseason)

2005-06 Phoenix Suns: 1.24 (regular season), 1.29 (postseason)

So far in this young 2010-2011 regular season, the Knicks have enjoyed similar success offensively to that of previous D'Antoni-coached teams. The Knicks are tied for third in the NBA with 1.31 point/shot, a figure that bodes well for Mike D'Antoni-coached teams. Indeed, his Phoenix Suns enjoyed a remarkable season in 2004-05 when they lost to the San Antonio Spurs, 4-1, in the Western Conference Finals. For that postseason, the Suns had 1.32 point/shot. Who knows what could have happened for this team had Joe Johnson not been injured during the playoffs. The following year, Stoudemire suffered a knee injury and nobody believed the Suns could reach the Western Conference Finals once again, but they did. Then again, the team scored 1.29 point/shot during the postseason.

D'Antoni seems to fully believe that basketball, most of all, is about scoring points; he preaches to his players to make more baskets than the opposition on any given night. This recipe has yet to lead anyone to an NBA Championship, but D'Antoni has led previous teams on the cusp of the NBA Finals two years in a row. For that, I believe the Knicks are on the right track for trying to emulate the 2004-05 Phoenix Suns.

Charles Blouin-Gascon

Some really interesting metrics from our prospective new HQ team members, and I think it's pretty easy to follow them into tonight's "3 keys."

1)  Defend the perimeter:  Toronto has gotten shelled from downtown in their past two games as both Indiana and New York let fly from long range.  The Raps seemed helpless to counter this strategy and simply wilted under the long-range barrage.  As well, both clubs were able to create said open opportunities via defensive breakdowns around perimeter as Toronto was forced to collapse on guys like Raymond Felton, thus opening up easy looks for 3-point shooters.

It's pretty clear therefore what the first key is.  Toronto can't afford to try and trade long-range buckets with the Knicks as they're currently the second worst 3-point shooting team in the league right now so this isn't about "first to 150 wins."   If Toronto can't run the Knicks off the 3-point line or force contested looks, it's going to be a very long night once again.

2)  Amar'e Stoudemire:  Amar'e of course throttled Toronto on Sunday in the Raps' loss, and was perhaps the sole reason New York put on such a dominant performance.  With so much of the Raptors' defensive energy placed on stopping him, it allowed Amar'e teammates way too many open looks on the perimeter.  As a result, guys like Shawne Williams looked like Ray Allen and the Knicks never looked back.  As one of our intern finalists noted above, Toronto may simply have to let Amar'e "get his," and concentrate on keeping the rest of the Knicks out of the scoring party.  

3)  Match-ups:  There have been some rumblings recently about another change to the starting line-up, with Sonny Weems perhaps coming out in favour of another option.  While I'm not sure that's necessarily the answer, it's easy to see why it would happen.  Weems just couldn't seem to understand the concept of "going over" screens against Indiana and was burned time and time again by guys like Brandon Rush who were left with nothing but open look after open look from deep.

However my concern extends beyond Sonny to Amir and Andrea.  Last time they played the Knicks, Toronto got in a huge hole early because Amir wasn't physical enough to get Amar'e away from his sweet spots, and Andrea not fast enough to run out and challenge Wilson Chandler on the perimeter.  

I'm hoping therefore that tonight Triano puts Bargs on Stoudemire.  Let Amar'e contend with Andrea's outside game on D, and have the more physical Bargnani body Amar'e around on the night.  Amir can then use his length and quicks to get out on Chandler, and hopefully this will mean less "help" rotations from Toronto's wings.

As well, how about using guys like Julian Wright, similar types to Chandler, in order to fight fire with fire?

Mike D'Antoni got the best of Jay Triano last time these clubs met and I'm looking for some payback tonight.

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Same old, same old

I find myself not caring too much about individual performances or the team’s conference standings… I’m just so disappointed that the raptors new-found defensive intensity and focus has whittled back down to last year’s levels.

So like in the past, they can get hot offensively and beat anybody, but if the shot’s not falling and the calls aren’t happening, they get killed… fun!

by axl t on Dec 8, 2010 10:13 AM EST reply actions  

i think you should make a survey francise

I see you brought up the case as to what do we as fans want. As you know I’m with you for getting a top 3 pick ( kyrie Irving ) but a big of me also wants to see this team make the playoffs and get some experience. Should do a survey down the road to see what the HQ readers want.

by sherwin316 on Dec 8, 2010 10:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Great idea Sherwin.

We’re getting into Christmas time and I’ve actually got a few “feature” posts I want to run, that being one of them.

The other being a roundtable with some of our favourite media folks regarding what the Raptors should do with the TPE they’re sitting on.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 8, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Making the playoffs is pointless if you can’t even compete with your opponent. Getting shellacked by the Celtics or Magic will not help this team down the road. Unfortunately, tanking looks like its out as well (baring a trade) so I am not sure what his team can do other than to aim for the 7 or 8 spot and hope to get lucky.

by McGateway on Dec 8, 2010 10:40 AM EST reply actions  

By 7 or 8 i mean draft position not standings.

by McGateway on Dec 8, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s an interesting dilemma, and one that hit me last night when talking to a work colleague about Toronto’s chances at getting a top pick.

Statistically draft pick productivity tumbles off a cliff after the top 5, and it becomes basically a crap shoot, but I agree that they should try and get as high as possible on the draft charts. Sometimes the difference between a 9 and a 7 is a DeMar DeRozan vs. a Steph Curry…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 8, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

true say

lets hope toronto can get a top 10 pick or BC can improve this team significantly

by raptors_run_the_show on Dec 8, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

tough call

We want to do well and see progress,but we are stuck between a rock and a hard place…I understand that there exists no guarantee of a top draft pick but falling to 10/13th pic isn’t going to solve any of our problems.
I am tired of projects,I would love a pic that can come in and have immediate impact,I like the speedy guard from Duke…ya Barnes would be nice…but the way the league has changed the speedy guards is the way to go.Unless a Shack or a Howard falls on our laps!!!
I guess its the best thats available that we will have to go with…..Barnes/Irving ?

by d279 on Dec 8, 2010 11:07 AM EST reply actions  

There might be a silver lining in UConn’s PG Kemba Walker. He wasn’t supposed to be a lottery pick this year, but has taken off and may be available when Toronto drafts. He’s probably the quickest PG from end to end in the NCAA and has been tearing it up.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 8, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Man Kemba ripped up the Maui Invitational and scored 90 points in 99 minutes. They upset Michigan State and Kentucky.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Irving

Pretty hard not to read this though and drool

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 8, 2010 11:25 AM EST reply actions  

and barnes is really struggling right now.

He might not even be the first pick like a lot of experts were Thinking. He is really struggling in college and that could hurt his position in the draft.

by sherwin316 on Dec 8, 2010 11:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Yep – most mocks have Irving at the top now…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 8, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

In the last few weeks I’ve caught a few NC games and Barnes has not looked good. I touted him after watching the McDs All-Am tourney and he stood out so much, but he’s falling quick.

The new flavour of Perry Jones has been good. I like Irving, but wasn’t overly impressed from the Duke v Baylor game.

Mid lower pick, I’m liking Maalik Waynes from Vil.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

They’re experimenting with Barnes now @ and undersized 4. It’ll be interesting to see if that gets him going.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Though just for Raps fans.. I smell: Jonas Valanciunas or Donatas Motiejunas coming here… both 7’ ish projects. :)

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Huge fan of Terrence Jones here. Man is a beast already.

by HDave on Dec 8, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Why SO SKECPTICAL???
if the team believes in themselves then they could achieve whatever position in the 2nd or 3rd tier. I believe they will make it to the playoffs and i do hope so!!! BE OPTIMISTIC!!!

by ZM15 on Dec 8, 2010 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

actually I think they’re probably going to win the division this year.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

My concerns for a TJ is that they’ve played him at the 5.. @ a very small 6’8" and I’m not sure how that translates into the NBA. They have him posting low against some smaller 5s but there’s not really that many small 5s in the A.

I haven’t seen him in enough face-up situations to really like his pro game. Reminds me a lot of a smaller Ed Davis with an even thinner frame.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve gotta see more of Jones but he has looked good against college competition.

What do you guys think of Kanter?

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 8, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Its really too bad about Kanter. I know nothing of him, and hopefully we get to see him play this year. I hear his knee issues are a problem and may well be a Greg Oden/Bynum type thing. At this point, I’d avoid him like the plauge! Let the Clippers draft him.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

With the 12th pick....

Eyeballing the NBA standings it looks like Toronto will pick around 10-14. Obviously that could change a lot between now and the end of the year. However, before long we may be reconciling ourselves to the fact that we are going to have to hope for a Paul Pierce or Rudy Gay scenario to get a premium player out of the 2011 draft.

Kemba Walker anyone? Maybe Barnes draft stock plummets? Franchise what do you think about Mason Plumtree?

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Everything after Jones, Irving and maybe Barnes is a bit of a mess. I’ve not been to a few tournaments and watched a bunch of NCAA games and it’s tough.

I know who I don’t like after admittedly very few minutes (i.e. 1 game):

Tyler Honeycutt.(You think Bargs is soft?!)
Corey Fisher (i.e. Mike James light)
Jordan Hamilton… kept waiting to see him do something but nothing happened.

and I’m not really sure how good the rest of the Duke team really is because of the Irving effect. Plus that’s just a crazy stacked team, and honestly didn’t wow me vs the Baylor game.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

What does anybody know about Travis Leslie?

He seems like D-Wade Lite or Jason Richardson Jr. athletically but what’s his game like?

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Keys to Raptors winning

Andrea Bargnani has to score. In all 8 wins he has 20 plus points in 7 and 18 in the 8th.
If he dosen’t score they do not win, 11 FGA as with Indy won’t cut it.
Rebounding is not an issue as @ 42.5 they are 7th in the NBA, and plus 3.5 a game, with or without Reggie.

They must learn to adapt their defensive play (as the coaching staff lays it out) to play teams with different styles eg. Oaklahoma and the Knicks or Pacers.

If Sonny at 24 does not smarten up and play right, he should sit, even if the reason he is playing is to help BC make a decision whether he should be resigned, as he is a FA, or if he is a duplication of DeRozan at only 21.
 Raptors biggest need is for an experienced 2/3 who can score, and shoot the 3pt, and defend with some dependibility, while DeRozan developes.

Kleiza did not sign here to sit on the bench and play 10/15 mins per game. He should be starting and playing 30/32 minutes, as when he does he will be productive with 16/18 pts and 4/5 rbs, as he has demonstrated in 6/8 games this year. He will not be as productive as a part time player.

by Johnn19 on Dec 8, 2010 2:15 PM EST reply actions  

Not as simple as that

Sure, it helps if Andrea scores, but it helps even more when he does it efficiently and contributes in other ways.

For instance he’s averaging about 17 points a game even in losses so not a huge difference purely from a “scoring” standpoint, but in wins he’s averaging 6 free throw attempts a game and in losses, only 4.

This offensive aggression shows up in his percentages too; key isn’t so much to score more, but to take quality shots. He’s shooting just under 40% from the field in losses and a blistering 56% in wins.

That’s a HUGE difference.

The other correlation surprise surprise? Rebounding. Not so much early in the season, but over the past 8 or 9 games, Bargs’ rebounding averages in Toronto wins are way higher than losses.

I could go on and on but it’s pretty safe to say looking at the stats that when Andrea is involved in the game, and I mean scoring, rebounding, attacking the basket etc, the team as a whole tends to win more games.

As for Kleiza, I don’t want to see the human turnover anywhere near the starting line-up until he proves he can shoot again. He’s shooting 43% from the field and a nice old 24% from downtown.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 8, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with Franchise here, and I’d like to offer to condense his answer: when Andrea plays well the Raptors tend to win, when he plays poorly they are pretty much guaranteed to lose.

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Totally

Efficiency is huge with no defence to fall back on. I wish we had another player who could step up when Bargs is in lala land…

by axl t on Dec 8, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

can’t I just trade DeMare for Kobe and Bargnani for Dwight Howard? Maybe an Evans for Kevin Durant?

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

So irrelevant comments aside, what are your priority upgrades and how would you best like them addressed?

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

hmm good question.. my priorities would be my starting 5. I like the bench.. they can stay.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

If only pigs could fly....

I don’t think you could even make those trades on NBA Live let alone in the real world. It’s fun to dream, but don’t go roasting Colangelo because he is not able to pull off this sort of fantasy scenario.

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Like I said...

Those aren’t the actual players I suggest are available, only the type of player I would like in that spot…

Evans and Weems or Evans and Kleiza to a contending team who is deep at the center position for a player LIKE Bynum is absolutely plausible…

Using the TPE on someone who seems to have talent but is not in the team’s good graces (Williams, Eddie Curry) at least gets you something for it…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing is that I think you are hoping for too much in your trade scenarios. You are over-valuing Toronto’s assets.

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Prime Example...

New York is NOT playing Eddy Curry.

Eddy Curry is a career 13 and 5 guy who is a legit 7’ center.

Using the TPE to get him this year and giving him a reduced contract for a couple years to see if he is really able to make the comeback he thinks gives us options for resting Bargs and shoring up the interior.

No pigs needing to grow wings to make it happen.

New York would welcome the extra money as they bid for ’Melo or Tony Parker next year.

Now think of some ideas of your own and post relevant results…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

This doesn't qualify as relevant...
What about

1) Peja and Alabi for Howard?
2) Bargnani and Kleiza for D. Wade?
3) Jose and Barbosa for Dirk?

That would give us
Howard/Davis for C
Dirk/Johnson PF
Wright/Weems SF
Wade/Dero @ SG
Bayless and some guy from my YMCA @ PG.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if you want to acquire Curry that should be possible, but I wouldn’t touch that guy with a ten foot pole. He would be like having a second Bargnani(not great at defense or rebounding), but with a worse attitude and out of shape.

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, so...

who do we use as centers, starter and off the bench, if Bargnani gets hurt?

Having a 7’ backup that you didn’t lose a player to get seems like an alright option to me…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d rather stick with the current big man rotation of Bargnani-Johnson-Amir-Dorsey. If Bargnani got injured then bring Alabi back from the D-league and start Amir and Ed vs undersized front courts with Dorsey starting against stronger guys(who would admittedly overwhelm him height-wise). This is a development year anyway, so I would give the minutes to guys who would be part of a longer term plan.

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Perfect rationalization...

I know you meant Bargnai-Johnson-Davis-Dorsey since Johnson and Amir are one and the same…lol

It would be nice if Alabi would come around fast as he has the size to help out…

You gotta love how Amir is stepping up to really balance the frontcourt…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

How could I miss Ed, who is quickly moving in alongside Amir as my two favourite Raptors :)

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Really...

I would love to see Davis put on about 20 lbs and run an Johnson / Davis as our punishing starting duo with Bargnani coming off the bench at the 4 for scoring and getting a solid backup center for Davis…

Hey wait that sounds like half of exactly what I posted that you guys started ragging on me as ridiculous…

hmmm… what a conundrum…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see Davis putting on enough muscle to battle the big centres as effectively as Bargnani does. For me Davis might be the starting PF down the road with Amir as the impact big man off the bench. In that scenario, it would be absolutely great if Bargnani improved his defensive game to complement Davis’ heady play at that end of the floor. As they say “you can’t teach size” and Bargnani has more of it than Davis.

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

True, but...

… I can’t hang my hat on the notion of Bargs improving enough defensively to be the man…

That’s why I ideally had my scenario with bringing in a starting center, unless Alabi becomes one, but that’s a long-shot…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 9, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Also relevant and plausible...

Tony Douglas from New York for a first round pick…

The Knicks REALLY want a first round pick to help land Carmelo…

Douglas gives us freedom to use Jose’s contract for bigger fish…

Not a good scenario for us if we maintain a high pick but in a thin draft if we end up lower down, it really isn’t bad…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

For example...

Do you take a chance on a Greg Oden to fill the center spot? Is he gonna be able to come back strong from injury?

Is Alabi going to be a huge addition with some development and polish?

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

all kidding aside.. I hate fantasy scenarios as well.. there are a billion combinations.. and with the advent of the trade machine, just because it goes thru doesn’t make it true.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

..sorry.. I meant fantasy trade scenarios.

I used to work with a bunch of guys who came up every day with a different trade. So I kept cutting to.. why don’t we just trade for Kobe? They would respond by saying “that’s silly”. Most saw the irony.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

why don’t we just trade:

Pedja and Jose for Kobe?
or
Bargs, Barbosa, Evans and Johnson?
or
Evans, Johnson, and Pedja?
or
Bargs, Wright, Calderon and Barbosa?
or..

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, but the question is...

Where would you start?

Is finding a true center the first priority or is acquiring a reliable SG?

Does Peja have trade value or is his only value the money dump when he expires?

You know things that need to be done to develop the franchise…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you’re missing my sarcasm and my point that.. this team has many priorities… no one more than another. You could argue literally any point (i.e. needing a new guard, SF, PF, SG and C) and I can agree with it.

This team needs 1 thing more than anything else. Talent. Doesn’t matter where.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

but if I could trade Pedja and JC for Kobe?? That’d be my first priority. ;)

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

actually I take that back.. I’d trade Wright and Bayless for Kevin Durant. Hmmm maybe I can do both!

I’m a fricken Genius!!

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough,

at least that’s an actual point…

Not missing any sarcasm, I feel you spitting in my face, I’m just trying to get a feel for the consensus of who people see as “keepers” and who has more value as a commodity…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

ok.. I’ll be serious…

ok.. I’ll be serious…NO BODY is a “KEEPER” on this team. If you can upgrade your talent (i.e. see MY trade proposals) you do it.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

now whether the other team accepts.. that’s a different forum.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm I would then have:

Bargnani/Evans/Davis/Johnson as my Cs and PF
Durant/Kleiza/Derozan/Weems as my SF/SG
Kobe as my SG/PG
and Bayless and some random guy I picked up at my local YMCA as my PG, better yet.. maybe Allen Iverson at some MLE.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

What about

1) Peja and Alabi for Howard?
2) Bargnani and Kleiza for D. Wade?
3) Jose and Barbosa for Dirk?

That would give us
Howard/Davis for C
Dirk/Johnson PF
Wright/Weems SF
Wade/Dero @ SG
Bayless and some guy from my YMCA @ PG.

:)
Bayless @ PG

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

oh wait this is fun.. now I know everyone does it..

How about:

1) Peja and DeRo for Pau Gasol
2) JC&Evans for LeBron
3) Bargnani and Barbosa for Chris Paul

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Other random notes:

POB gets released from a team in China?!?!
J. Moon goes from starter to DNA
I’d love to see the Hornets go to Seattle or Vancouver. Both cities deserve a 2nd chance.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:49 PM EST reply actions  

I’d love to see the Hornets go to Seattle or Vancouver. Both cities deserve a 2nd chance.

Agreed. But it looks like Kansas City is the frontrunner. Vegas would be a nice option IF they had a new arena.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 8, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Who built that dum-ass stadium in 2007 in KC anyways?!?!?! Sheesh. :)

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

It seems like the ultimate “cart before the horse” scenario, doesn’t it? I mean, Kansas City has failed (so far) to attract an NHL or NBA team to the new arena.

But they do boast the College Basketball Hall of Fame connected to the arena. So it would be a decent fan experience, I suppose.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 8, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

If the world was fair...

If the world was fair, the Hornets would move to OKC and the Thunder would move back to Seattle where they belong(Durant and all).

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve only heard its a gorgeous stadium.. it’s too bad I don’t now a soul who’s actually been there.

by Ustation on Dec 8, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Andrea vs. Amare

I like your suggestion, Franchise, of putting Andrea on Amare. I would take it one step further and challenge Andrea to outscore and outdefend Amare(hardly an all-world defender). The Raptors absolutely have to guard the Knicks 3-pt gunners tighter and they are only going to do that if they can avoid doubling Amare. Additionally, Andrea can forget about helping(which he often does anyway) because if he has Amare under control then Amir, Ed or Dorsey should be able to hold things down in the lane. This could be a real statement game if Triano frames it that way and Andrea steps up to the plate.

by DW19 on Dec 8, 2010 4:05 PM EST reply actions  

Great comment

I was thinking about this whole Andrea thing the other day, and really, isn’t the bottom line the same as it was for Bosh, Carter, Mighty Mouse…is said player carrying the team to wins?

One guy can’t do everything, but you’re bang on DW19 – if I’m Bargs and I want to make a statement, I go right at Amar’e tonight. Just like no one on the Raps can handle Amar’e, well no one should be able to handle Andrea…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 8, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

That sums up Andrea's true value to the team...

He needs to be an absolute force to be reckoned with the best way he knows how…

Score, score early, score often, score in the bus on the way to the game for all I care, but get the other team to commit some fouls and tire themselves out…

He may not be our Franchise Player, but he is the one guy that really gives the other teams a problem to have to deal with…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 8, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

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