Raptors Rapid Recap - New York Knicks 116 - Toronto Raptors 99
by Adam Francis on Dec 5, 2010 3:50 PM EST
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-The New York Knicks put on an offensive clinic in a 116 to 99 destruction of the Toronto Raptors this afternoon at the Air Canada Center. New York jumped out to a 16 point lead, and while the Raps closed the gap to as few as 7 at times, the Knicks were never really threatened, and pulled away for good early in the fourth quarter.
-Amar'e Stoudemire was unstoppable posting 31 points and 16 rebounds on the Dinos, but he got lots of help from his Knicks teammates around the perimeter, who dropped in 12 three-pointers on the afternoon. Landry Fields, Wilson Chandler, Shawne Williams and Raymond Felton all dropped in double figure scoring performances, and Toronto just couldn't keep up.
-There were a myriad of issues for the Dinos on this afternoon though so it wasn't all "what New York did." Toronto shot a dismal 11 of 22 from the free-throw line, missed numerous open looks, and had 13 turnovers, many of these as the result of players trying to do too much. Throw in some sketchy personnel decisions by Jay Triano and you have all the makings of a loss.
-The lone bright spots for the Raps on the afternoon were Amir Johnson and Jerryd Bayless. Amir had a break-out game with 22 points and 16 rebounds (8 of these on the offensive glass) taking only 14 shots (making 10), while Bayless played 27 minutes posting 23 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists. His five 3-pointers were instrumental in fact in keeping Toronto in this one.
-The rest of the Raptors? Ugh. DeRozan was pretty invisible on the afternoon, Sonny Weems looked like he was back in the D League, Andrea Bargnani hit on only 8 of his 19 shots and wasn't nearly aggressive enough inside, Jose Calderon was a team-worst -22 on the afternoon and Linas Kleiza made another case for being the first victim of the Bryan Colangelo's "immediate free-agent flip." Ed Davis and Leandro Barbosa were the only other Raptors worth their weight on the afternoon, and now Toronto has to forget this one and head to Indiana for a tough match tomorrow night.
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One of the things that I like about BC is that he is willing to trade guys that he views as mistakes. Kleiza is not a bad player, but he is not necessary and not a great fit right now. I would obviously be thrilled if BC were to trade him in a deal him. So long as he was looking more for a player of the Julian Wright, Jared Bayless type. A young, cheap, athlete who has not proven anything yet. Or an expiring plus a pick of any type would do.
Kleiza
Linas doesn’t make sense on this team. The team is long and athletic while Linas is slow and and big-bodied. Wright fits the team’s new identity. The only position right now that looks weak IMO is the three. I like the bigs with Davis, Amir, Bargnani and Reggie back. I like our one and two spots with a veteran and a young up and comer at both positions. I think Sonny needs a mobile vet (definately not Peja) behind him or an Igoudala type in front of him.
Bargnani seems to be setting the tone for this team. How goes Bargs so does the team.
Couldn’t agree more with both of you. To me there’s no reason to play Kleiza even over Julian Wright at this point considering the style the team is playing.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
The word is ‘identity’. And maybe in the summer, the Linas Kleiza signing made sense. He played alright in limited minutes in Denver, played well in Europe, had a very strong World Championship performance, etc. I was excited enough by Kleiza’s potential to draft him in the late rounds of our fantasy basketball draft.
But then a funny thing happened. This team turned into a Homeless Man’s version of the Showtime Lakers on the fast break. And suddenly a slow, plodding, halfcourt player like Kleiza makes little sense.
Now, you can go in one of two directions: You can give Kleiza minutes regardless of his play and hope he figures it out. Or you can recognize that the team has gone in a different direction style-wise and realize that Kleiza is probably always going to be that square peg trying to get in the round hole, and move on from there.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 5, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
It's Happend Before ..His name was Mark Jackson
A much heralded signing that proved not to fit the style of the team and so they traded him and were off to the races from there. Although he’s young and his contract is reasonable it i hard to pinpoint a team that would him, barring injury, especially considering how he has performed/not performed thus far
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
by HQ Interloper on Dec 5, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
+1
The Mark Jackson era was painful. Calderon looks like a great defender next to Jackson. LOL
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 5, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
I for one am totally surprised Kleiza is this bad. Not just one dimensional but butterfingers with the ball and bad defense.
Where is the guy I saw at the worlds??
by axl t on Dec 6, 2010 12:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Both Weems an Kleiza are struggling, why isn't Julian Wright playing
Franchise, when you get the opportunity could you ask Jay Triano why Julian Wright seems not to get playing time at a position that has proven detrimental to the team the last little while? Could you ask Triano if he feels pressure to play Kleiza because he honestly feels he is a better prospect than Wright or simply because of the size of the contract?
If tomorrow I woke up and heard that both DeRozan and Weems had been traded I actually wouldn’t be too bothered by it. Wing play continues to be the achilles heal of this team. And despite the raw athleticism and ample opportunity, neither is showing that they have “IT.” You never know what you’re going to get from either.
Lots of baskets that just didn’t go in tonight and uncharacteristically poor free throw shooting. The team does need reliable three point shooting from the wing positions though, heck, they need reliable wing shooting period.
Jose and Bargnani have on court chemistry issues. This has been the case for a while and looks to continue as long as both of them are here. Check out Jose’s assist distribution. Compare the Amare Felton chemistry with that of Bargs and Jose and it is pretty clear why some games the offense seems to stagnate.
One more thing..if they had made the shot that would have given them more than 100 points…the crowd would have actually cheered? That is ridiculous.
I know some will jump on me for this but I don’t think Bargs had that poor of a game. If I’m taking a positive out of his play I think it was his willingness to grind things out.
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
Completely agree with you about the Julian Wright thing and the wing play. I think DeMar DeRozan, in particular, gets way too much rope. And we’ve seen how this team performs when the wings actually bring something to the table.
I know some will jump on me for this but I don’t think Bargs had that poor of a game. If I’m taking a positive out of his play I think it was his willingness to grind things out.
Not jumping on you for the comment, but definitely disagree. If Bargnani was, in fact, grinding it out, he would’ve posted up more than 2 or 3 times against an undersized Knicks frontcourt. And he probably would’ve got to the line more than the zero times he did today. There was too much of the settling for lazy jumpers… even when he had a clear path to the basket with absolutely no one in front of him.
Of course, when Bargs finally backed his man down low in the closing minutes, he scored with ease. It’s rare when a player scoring a bucket for your favourite team is far and away the most frustrating moment of the entire game. Congrats on pulling that off, Andrea!
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 5, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
Bargnani needed to post up more. This game seemed a perfect opportunity to go inside. I got the sense, he forgot to pound back some pasta earlier in the day.
Can’t say those jumpers should be called lazy. Andrea has been shooting pretty well in the last number of games, even though I do prefer he start off games more in the Post. However, once the jumpers stopped jumping in, he should’ve transitioned to a closer placement. Suffice to say, he didn’t have it this afternoon.
Amir was great – too bad it came while most others didn’t bring their A game. Upside is, this gives AJ a shot of confidence. Bayless definitely offers more potential, then Jack did. JJ was at his limit, while Jarryd has something to prove.
by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 5, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
So I’ll provide some clarity around the ‘lazy’ comment. Yes, Bargs’ shot has been dropping lately — but he was launching long jumpers this afternoon with no one in front of him. The type of opportunity where a player of his skillset should be able to put the ball on the floor, attack a bit more, and get a closer/higher percentage look at the rim. That’s all.
I can understand Bargnani struggling against the likes of Garnett or someone who is going to give him fits defensively. But Amar’e is a terrible defender, Chandler is undersized at the four, etc. It’s like I said, watching Bargs back his man down in the last few minutes of the game and scoring with ease was beyond frustrating because you see how simple that was. You’re scoring more efficiently, perhaps getting to the line, and giving your team a better opportunity to win the game.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 5, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
They looked him off a few times when he posted up. Finally they started getting it to him but it was way too late.
by axl t on Dec 6, 2010 12:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
how often can we hear
the same old excuses?
Others ‘looked off’ him…. please thats nonsense.
You mean to tell me when Bargs had the ball he couldn’t simply turn around and post his man up? Or he couldn’t attack the basket? Or roll after a pick?
He needs to work hard at both ends of the floor on a nightly basis to not be a liability. The only time he can get away with this kind of display is when he is shooting 60+%, and that didn’t happen tonight and won’t happen on a regular basis (no shooters do).
Oh and disregard my question because we will hear the same old ‘he didn’t do it like he should have because of his teammates’ over and over…. same crap the Bosh lovers gave.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 6, 2010 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
go read yesterday
and the day before and the day before….
he put 2 good games together where he worked hard at both ends and I complimented him for it. Now a game of classic Bargs.
Its the same thing over and over. If he doesn’t work hard at both ends, he has to shot extremely efficiently to make up for what he lacks.
This has been said consistently, and Bargs has proven that consistently.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 6, 2010 6:34 AM EST up reply actions
lol it wasn't 5
he simply shot well those others games, but didn’t provide on the glass or on D.
But lets even say its been 5… 5 out of 20 games is pretty damn sad.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 6, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I can get screen grabs
Post players get their position without the ball, then have three seconds to get the pass and shoot. Looking him off is when they look at him, in position and decide not to give him the ball. Happens all the time with bargs. Less of late. One thing that can be done is for the post player to pass the ball back out, then get it right back again. We’ve seen a few times with bargs, but again our smalls often look him off on the first and re-post.
Guess its to be expected
Inconsistancy will be the most frustrating part of the year. I do agree that we need our wings to be productive, but lets not give up on what we have, just yet.
Maybe our recent run has made us forget that nights(day) like this will happen. Two games against the Knicks show that their starters can dominate ours. When they make their 3’s they will score a lot of points. Too many open 3’s today.
Gotta forget about this one fast, got a game against a conference rival up next.
Yeah, inconsistency will be one of the major themes of this team this season because of the lack of elite talent. I think my frustration stems from the fact that you can see that the Raptors have the makings of something special with the rebounding, fast breaking and all that good stuff… and then Triano makes some sketchy decisions like the inexplicable, run killing Bargs-Kleiza subsitutions at the end of the third quarter, when the lead had been cut to seven. You could see that coaching decision coming a mile away though. Sad.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 5, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Not much more needed to be said here
Agree on all points and will be touching on them in the morning.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
looking over the knicks roster. they got anthony randolph. a player i think can be a great player in this league. anyone think BC should go after this guy. hes not getting any mins and is still wayyy too young. has potential. good pick up?
Randolph definitely has that “roll the dice” potential. But it’s a little odd that he can’t find minutes on that team, in that system. It’s not like D’Antoni preaches or coaches defence, and offensively Randolph is supposed to be quite gifted.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 5, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Randolph has been
highly adored for his potential…. which has turned into absolutely nothing.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 6, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
3 point Shooting
We could run through a few issues tonight, but there’s one area where Raps need to improve – 3 point shooting .. (as well as defending against 3 pt shots).
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Raptors are 27th in 3 point attempts, and 29th in 3pt % – not good statistics for a team that over the last few seasons, has been pretty decent at this part of the game. As the New York tussle showed tonight, popping 3 – 3 point shots in a span of 1 minute and 14 seconds, is one sure way to get a lead and demoralize an opponent. All the while adding a little spark to your team.
.
Raps need to address their 3 point shooting. With a Peja 8 years younger version. Not necessarily a Starter, but a Bench Kapono type (and Bench price), who will actually take the shot.
There was one point, when Jack or Devlin mentioned Raptors having no perimeter players on the court, outside of Jose. Essentially, that gave NY’s defense the confidence to contract, and play tighter inside.
.
You’re right about the 3-point shooting… although I did cringe when I read the words “Kapono type”. Haha.
But seriously, this goes back to the whole “we need more consistent production out of our wings” argument. One of Weems or DeRozan probably needs to be replaced with a high volume, 3-point gunner.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 6, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Trade DeRozen
I don’t know what BC saw in this pick. Given starting role for the past two years, the progress is just not satisfactory. DeRozen has shown flashes but just cannot be consistent. I’m not sure if he is worried about getting injured or it is someting else. He is flashy enough to create his own shots. I don’t think he has learnt anything from playing with Bosh or Bargnani and knows how to contribute. If we do not get at least a double in points or double in rebounds performance out of this position, Raptors should trade him for someone that can do that consistently, instead of wasting 25 minutes average on this guy.
On Kleiza
I believe he can provide two valuable functions for the team. He can be a very good 3 point shooter and he is good in the low post. He should be used as a specialist for these functions. They could set him outside for kick out 3s when the paint is covered and post him when the match up suits.
They need to narrow his focus to these functions and he will be an asset.
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