3 In the Key - Game-Day Preview vs Pistons
by Adam Francis on Dec 22, 2010 9:01 AM EST
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The Toronto Raptors have seen healthier days, but that doesn't mean they're going to roll over in tonight's game against the Detroit Pistons at the ACC. The HQ breaks it down...
And Linas Kleiza halfway through.
The above names represent the members of the Toronto Raptors who missed practice yesterday thanks to injury.
It sounds like all but Reggie and Peja will be available to play this evening, but there are no guarantees. Against the Lakers Andrea Bargnani became a late scratch, and Amir Johnson had to leave numerous times thanks to a back that was acting up.
Luckily the Detroit Pistons, Toronto's opponent tonight, haven't been faring much better.
They're healthier to be certain, but had lost 8 of 9 matches up until three games ago. The team's now won 2 of their last 3, but have yet to crack the 10 win mark on the season, and now, rumours are swirling around the Pistons camp that RIP Hamilton has quit on the team.
Everyone remembers the last time these teams met of course.
Just over a week ago the clubs met in Auburn Hills where Toronto pulled off their greatest comeback in club history, rising from the dead and a 25 point late third quarter deficit to eventually win 120 to 116.
Jerryd Bayless had 31 points in the win, but it was an all-out team effort that got the job done...
...which happens to be our first key for tonight:
1) Team play. There's no telling who's playing and who's not at this point, and no telling how effective any of the players we listed above will even be. So to get their 11th W on the season, the Raptors are going to need an all-out team effort this evening. The Pistons are no Lakers, but they've beaten two tough teams of late, the Atlanta Hawks and New Orleans Hornets, so if Toronto doesn't come out aggressive, another miraculous comeback will likely not be enough.
2) Wing play. Against the LA Lakers, Raptors' fans saw some great play from the likes of DeMar DeRozan and Linas Kleiza, great play that was enough to keep Toronto in the game without their leading gun, Andrea Bargnani. We'll assume Andrea is back tonight but regardless, I'm looking to see more of the same from Toronto's wings this evening. DeRozan in particular needs to start showing that he's taking the next step in his career and games like these are perfect opportunities for him to shine. Ben Gordon, starting in place of Mr. Hamilton, shouldn't be able to offer much resistance on D, and I'll be looking to see DeMar not only create for himself, but for others since he should be able to break Gordon down, and force other Pistons to help out.
This key though isn't simply about effectiveness on the offensive side of the ball though. DeRozan will likely spend a good chunk of time chasing Gordon around on D and must limit his open looks. Gordon has been a Raptors' killer in the past, and guys like Kleiza and Weems (assuming he plays) need to be locked in on scorers like Hamilton and Prince too.
3) Get out and go. This piece to me is probably the biggest key to a win tonight for TO. The Pistons play a fraction off the league's slowest pace and the Raptors...well, they're pretty much at the opposite end of the spectrum. So to me a lot of this game is going to come down to style of play, and who can force their preferred methodology on their opponent.
A good part of this then revolves around maintaining possession.
Toronto is still one of the better rebounding clubs in the league, and if they can secure defensive rebounds, make crisp outlets and get out on the break, it probably will be a long afternoon for the Pistons. The Dinos were extremely effective using this game-plan even in the loss to the Lakers, and the Pistons, one of the league's most woeful offensive clubs, will have a hard to keeping up.
However should the Raps not be able to secure boards, or should the recent turnover issues continue to rear their ugly heads, this one could easily end up being Toronto's 19th loss. Detroit is one of the best teams in the league at taking care of the basketball, so Toronto ensure they don't keep giving the boys from Motorcity second-chance opportunities.
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Hope Raptors won’t get lackadasical like they were when they first met Detroit and play with the same energy it took to comeback from that huge deficit. As for Hamilton, I hope Detroit will put him out of his misery and trade him. hamilton is too good to be on such a bad team. Same goes for Tayshawn Prince
by Jeffrey Thompson on Dec 22, 2010 9:33 AM EST reply actions
you guys are crazy
a 30 year old ultimate role player is what you would love on the raptors…
If Prince had 3 years left on his deal, and was paid about a quarter as much…maybe. But his contract doesn’t make sense for this team considering his age and declining skill set.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Dec 22, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Would rent Prince or Hamilton too if I was BC, two excellent players who could use a change of scenery
I would not rent Hamilton unless I am getting the Pistons pick this year, which would be dumb of them.
Hamilton is set to make almost 13 million dollars both next season and the season after. That said, taking on his deal would not be the absolute end of the world because then he and Jose would come off the books at the same time.
I would definitely rent Prince if we did not have to give up any significant assets. He is about to come off the books, and if he were to look as good as I think he would, they could try to resign him.
by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 22, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Would you use the TPE on either guy? Not really sure that’s how tpe works, but I would … smart players.
I’d take both of them actually.
Yea...
basically you are trading a player for cash… no second player swapping teams… the Pistons would have to be okay with not getting a player in return… just money for a free agent or contract extension etc…
In other random notes:
The Zhejiang Golden Bulls are getting ready to release Mike James. Maybe the Raps can bring him back?
Brandon Roy now has something in common with Andrea Bargnani, he’s starting to get a lot of hate, and even had some spattering of boos. On multiple occasions, Miller asked Blazers fans to continue to show respect to Roy despite his struggles.
Toronto always feel bad when our superstars leave and think it’s a Canadian thing. What about Orlando? They’ve had Shaq, T-Mac and now maybe D. Howard?
Seriously.. How crazy stupid are Kevin Love’s number? The 31-31 game vs the Knicks was nuts, but he’s averaging 20 and 15, and over the last month it’s almost 20-20. 43 and 13 vs Denver. Why isn’t there more love for Love?!?!
Seriously.. How crazy stupid are Kevin Love’s number? The 31-31 game vs the Knicks was nuts, but he’s averaging 20 and 15, and over the last month it’s almost 20-20. 43 and 13 vs Denver. Why isn’t there more love for Love?!?!“Charles Oakley on whether or not he likes Isaiah Thomas: "I have nothing against Isaiah but he made a lot of comments about the Knicks in the old days. He’s a great player, just like (Charles) Barkley’s a great player, but (they’re) assholes.”
Seriously.. How crazy stupid are Kevin Love’s number? The 31-31 game vs the Knicks was nuts, but he’s averaging 20 and 15, and over the last month it’s almost 20-20. 43 and 13 vs Denver. Why isn’t there more love for Love?!?!“Charles Oakley on whether or not he likes Isaiah Thomas: "I have nothing against Isaiah but he made a lot of comments about the Knicks in the old days. He’s a great player, just like (Charles) Barkley’s a great player, but (they’re) assholes.”Holly MacKenzie: Props to Bryan Colangelo and Andrea Bargnani for each donating $125k to SickKids towards a new surgery unit. Lovely gesture. Twitter… I heart Holly.
Seriously.. How crazy stupid are Kevin Love’s number? The 31-31 game vs the Knicks was nuts, but he’s averaging 20 and 15, and over the last month it’s almost 20-20. 43 and 13 vs Denver. Why isn’t there more love for Love?!?!“Charles Oakley on whether or not he likes Isaiah Thomas: "I have nothing against Isaiah but he made a lot of comments about the Knicks in the old days. He’s a great player, just like (Charles) Barkley’s a great player, but (they’re) assholes.”Holly MacKenzie: Props to Bryan Colangelo and Andrea Bargnani for each donating $125k to SickKids towards a new surgery unit. Lovely gesture. Twitter… I heart Holly.Alejandra said she was surprised by her husband’s decision. “I still do not quite understand what interests possessed Steve (Nash) to do such a thing at this moment, as he told me of his desire to divorce the day before the birth of our son”
Kevin Love
Who does Love play for, and where are they in the NBA standings ?
Answer: Minnesota and dead last, answere the question why.
Can maybe put some of of Love's succes on the coach
Rambis certainly has a good pedigree coming from the lakers, he’s the guy I wanted in Toronto for ages… Has a no talent team of misfits playing a little bit of ball.
(What’s up for the formatting issues again… )
In other random notes:
The Zhejiang Golden Bulls are getting ready to release Mike James. Maybe the Raps can bring him back?
Brandon Roy now has something in common with Andrea Bargnani, he’s starting to get a lot of hate, and even had some spattering of boos. On multiple occasions, Miller asked Blazers fans to continue to show respect to Roy despite his struggles.
Toronto always feel bad when our superstars leave and think it’s a Canadian thing. What about Orlando? They’ve had Shaq, T-Mac and now maybe D. Howard?
Seriously.. How crazy stupid are Kevin Love’s number? The 31-31 game vs the Knicks was nuts, but he’s averaging 20 and 15, and over the last month it’s almost 20-20. 43 and 13 vs Denver. Why isn’t there more love for Love?!?!"
Charles Oakley on whether or not he likes Isaiah Thomas: "I have nothing against Isaiah but he made a lot of comments about the Knicks in the old days. He’s a great player, just like (Charles) Barkley’s a great player, but (they’re) assholes.
"Holly MacKenzie: Props to Bryan Colangelo and Andrea Bargnani for each donating $125k to SickKids towards a new surgery unit. Lovely gesture. Twitter… I heart Holly.
Alejandra said she was surprised by her husband’s decision. "I still do not quite understand what interests possessed Steve (Nash) to do such a thing at this moment, as he told me of his desire to divorce the day before the birth of our son"
Love the Random Notes
Love Love too.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Dec 22, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you! That video was officially the best part of my day so far.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 22, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
including the part
where he asks for a foul…. embarrassing :)
Saw it early this morning and going to include it in a little Christmas Day post…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Dec 22, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
The cost of success
The other day I suggested that the Raptor ownership needs to spend more money if they want to win. A couple of your readers here were quick to disagree with that, essentially saying the team has to be better before spending more money. I thought that was really a strange stance to take so I looked at the team pay roles in the league and their standings.
From that, I confirmed what I thought but I also learned something. In general the big payrole teams are at the top of the standings and the lowest pay role teams are at the bottom. However there are a couple teams that don’t fit the mould – Miami and San Antonio. When you look at those teams, they pay big money for their stars, Bosh, lebron, and Wade in Miami and Duncan Ginobli and Parker in SA. Their crcumstance is that they pay big money for their core and less for the supporting cast.
Toronto pays about the middle range and that is where they are in the eastern conference. Now I’m not sure if some of you are on the pay role of Raptors ownership and that’s why you make such ridiculous statements or what but for anyone to say that we need to wait until the team does better before going over the tax is mind boggling. Some of you seem to like to crucify Colangelo all the time but you give him the budget that Kupchak, Ainge or Smith have and you would see a better quality product. It’s the old saying " you get what you pay for"
For some reason there is a tendancy to give ownership a pass.
Agree to a point.
Yes, there’s definitely a correlation between spending and playoff success, but it’s not like the Raptors have been cheap. And the reality is that this Raptors’ team has under-performed compared to the amount they’ve spent the last few seasons. So I think there’s a bit of a combination here needed. Yep, taking the lock off the coffers would help, but if Colangelo keeps making poor decisions with said money (Kapono, Hedo etc), then would it really matter?
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Dec 22, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Hind sight
The Hedo situation turned out bad yet he had just come off of a good year with Orlando and so it was not unreasonable to thinkhe might help the Raps. At the time, I don’t remember a lot of people predicting what ended up happening. Kapone was supposedto fill a need to open up the floor for Bosh. Unfortunatly, Jason could not seem to get the shot off because he needed too much room. Anyway, I think the Bayless and Barbossa deal were good deals. it could be argued that the money for Bargnani is reasonable for a 20+ scorer and that signing Amir was good and time may proove that the Kleiza deal has been ok.
Again if the organization ties one hand behind your back with a lock on the purse strings, you probably have limited choices. It’s easy to second guess.
I mean really...
Kapono was a three point champion one year, so he has skills, I personally think he was used wrong by the coaches…or that he at least fit with a different coaching style… can you remember Toni Kukoc? Not a bad player, not necessarily a better player than Kapono, but in a better coaching situation for his style… (that Jordan guy drawing defenders may have helped a bit too)…
And with Hedo it’s like Bosh said man, it’s all about getting on TV…
You get on TV, you look appealing, you make more money…
Bargnani, since you brought it up, is a great piece on a team with superior TEAM defense around him helping to mitigate his help deficiencies. His contract is perhaps even under-valued in that situation…
Stuck on a poor defensive team like the Raptors he is exposed as a liability… Bad luck for him but that’s where he is…
Comparing Tony Kucoch to Kapono
is blasphemy, you are better off comparing him to Andrea although, at the time, there was probably not enough consideration for the (white) big who can put the ball on the floor and who can shoot from outside. Kucoc’s firs step was not as fast as Andrea’s but, definitely the “type of player” is similar
Never thought of it that way but...
Bargs is kind of a higher scoring Kukoc isn’t he?
Give him Michael Jordan to play with and he’s all good…
I agree with renato
In that a Kapono/Kukuc comparisson is ridiculous.
The Bargnani-Kukoc compare is much more relevant. I’d be interested to look at both their starts more closely tos ee how they line up.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 22, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Bargani Kukoc is appropriate.
They have a somewhat similar skillset. Note, Kukoc played a great role for the champion Bulls as a 6th man/utility forward off the bench.
Uh? what's that?
me on the same page with MAS and DS…. at once? definitely too much alcohol…. or too little…
It must be the holiday season ;)
I’m like the Grinch Who Stole Bargnani’s Christmas – my heart grew three sizes today when I paid him a compliment. Hahaha.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 22, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, it was unreasonable to think Turkoglu could help the Raptors. Because anyone who watched Turk play beyond hitting a couple of big shots on TV realized that he was an overpaid, inefficient, DECLINING player (who has continued his decline this season).
Bargnani is overpaid by virtue of the fact that the Raptors bid against themselves and have no context of how that contract will line up with the new collective bargaining agreement.
Kleiza needs to string together more than two good games before that signing gets any more than a D.
Agreed on the Bayless and Barbosa deals – those were terrific transactions.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 22, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Hedo and Kapono
Revisionist history… There was a lot of people against both the Hedo and Kapono deals. Here and throughout the rest of the NBA world. They were bad deals at the time they were signed and have remained bad deals for their duration.
Sorry UStation, trade idea...
Rockets get : Bargnani (Raptors), Brockman (Bucks) to be waived and re-sign with Bucks, and 2012 Bucks Draft Pick
Bucks get : Brooks (Rockets) and 2012 Raptors Draft Pick
Raptors get : Douglas-Roberts (Bucks), Courtney Lee (Rockets)
Rockets need a C, Bucks need a PG, we need reliable SG and SF skills…
Rockets have a trade exception in the works that make this possible…
Not a chance of this happening. Rockets want a C but not one who doesn’t fit with the team philosophy
And I don’t want the Raptors to give up draft picks for mediocre players. Ever. Unless said players are part of a championship run.
does that mean you would do it? seriously?
For Douglas Robert and Courtney lee? (including giving up a first?)
Wasn’t thinking right about the pick, really should be Houston and Milwaukee swapping picks IF Houston gets a better pick in 2012.
I have a better idea
why don’t we just wave Andrea, so we do not to hopelessly wait for anybody to give away their peanuts for him? just wave him or buy him out…
I can’t stand Bargnani’s game… but even I would expect more than Douglas-Roberts and Lee in return.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 22, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I am more focused on the extra flexibility it gives us after Bargs is gone to do more than just replacing him straight up and calling that enough…
Two young cheap pieces that may either perform well or showcase well to be traded while affording us the room to trade other players from those same positions while minimizing accrued salaries…
You don’t rebuild in one move, and each move isn’t necessarily going to reveal it’s merits until the next move or two occurs…
No, I would not do it. If the Raptors are where, say the Chicago Bulls, are, I might make that trade to pick up two mediocre players if they are replacing two worse or equivalent but injured players. But since the Raptors are at least 3 years away from that position, its an absolutely pointless trade for them.
And I assumed 1st round picks because 2nd round picks are generally not worth much. Typically, the best you can get out of them is a really long term project or cap relief.
My main thinking is, both these players are relatively cheap while being an upgrade over what we have now…
Then if we get a Barnes type in this draft (man would that be nice) we all of a sudden are deep at two positions that currently hurt us the most…
I still think Derozan is gonna be great, Weems should ship out, Kleiza… I still gotta see more from Kleiza but he looks like he’s back on track…
We make a move to get a LEGIT C (which I’ve been advocating all along) and we are NICE…
Aftermath...
Calderon / Bayless
Lee / Derozan / Barbosa
Kleiza / Douglas-Roberts / Weems / Wright / Stojakovic
Johnson / Dorsey / Evans
Davis / Alabi
Add a solid draft pick…
Use TPE effectively…
Make a trade using Barbosa / Evans / Weems…
Bringing in a serious C moves Davis to backup PF…
Perkins is a free agent next year and we will have Peja money to burn…
Johnson's Back Spasms
He was asked what he thought caused it.
He said he didn’t know but said that he thought it was odd in that it was only on one side and came on suddenly.
People can go back and re-watch the game. Go to the second quarter just before he left with the injury.
You will notice that he was posting up and Gasol had his right forearm pressed against Johnson’s back. A lot of defenders do this because it is legal and a foul won’t be called for it.
However what happened next was that Gasol’s right forearm became removed from contact with Johnson’s back. Then Gasol forcibly shoved his right forearm into the location where Johnson was injured. Immediately after the forearm shiv to Johnson’s lower back he had to come out.
Maxiell used this tactic on Howard a number of years ago in the playoffs with the same result. Howard was hampered for the rest of the playoffs as a result.
It is not too difficult to injure someone on the lower back using a forearm shiv if you know what you are doing and where to hit the other person in the lower back with your forearm.
I thought hypothetical trades are for REAL GM
Back away from computer Mik – go outside and take a walk.
HQ crew
Must say I was a little disapointed at the way yesterday’s thread kind of fizzled out… Great oportunity for an epic discussion. What are your thoughts Franchise, D-stance on what route the Raptors should embark on for the rebuild going forward?
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