Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: This Week In GIFs

Tip-In: Shorted - Lakers Depth and Talent Too Much for Raptors


The Toronto Raptors gave it their all yesterday afternoon, but the Lake Show rolled to their fifth straight win with a 120 to 110 victory over the short-handed Dinos.

Star-divide

We've talked a lot this season about margin of error.

The Toronto Raptors are certainly not the most talented team in the league, so for them to get wins, especially over some of the league's elite, they need to get a complete effort from their team.

It also helps when they have a team.

Yesterday afternoon the Raps were without leading scorer Andrea Bargnani and key wing Sonny Weems, and against the team with the best road record in the league, the Dinos knew they were in for a real challenge.

However they didn't crumble, and didn't fold, and fought this one out to the game's final minutes, eventually succumbing in a 120 to 110 loss.  The Lakers simply had the upper hand in terms of depth and talent, and despite a great effort from the Dinos, this one ended in Toronto's 18th loss of the season.

Bright spots?

Lots in this game, and great to see in a season such as this, where the team should be building for the future.

I'll start with the youngsters, as Raptors' fans saw solid performances from guys like Joey Dorsey and Julian Wright, and some sensational play from Amir Johnson and DeMar DeRozan.  Amir started out hot, hitting open J after open J on offence, but back spasms kept him from being as effective in the second half, as repeatedly he had to head to the locker room.

DeMar DeRozan showed glimpses of what the Raptors expect from him in the future, dropping in 23 points on the day, 11 of these from the free-throw line as he was perfect from the charity stripe.  Unfortunately 19 of his 23 came in the third quarter and he failed to score a point in the fourth while being hounded by Matt Barnes.  He was also a team high minus 17 on the day thanks to his defence of Kobe Bryant.  Again, the 19 were great to see, but on a day when the Dinos were missing their main gun Bargnani, the team needed more down the stretch from someone they're banking their future on.

One player for the Raps though who had no trouble scoring in the fourth was Linas Kleiza.

Kleiza had his second straight dominant performance finishing with a game-high 26 points while also grabbing 10 rebounds.  He wasn't great from long range (4 of 10), but if you watched the game yesterday, you saw how Toronto should be using him going forward.  He's not athletic enough to create off the bounce or score on face-up one-on-one situations...but make him the fourth man on the perimeter after a number of bullet passes lead to an open look?

And look out.

His offensive efficiency is very much determined by the types of looks he gets.

Yesterday that extra pass many-a-time found him on the perimeter after two or three Raptors touched it, and it gave Kleiza enough space to either shoot the 3, or drive to the hoop.  He doesn't have the quickest step, but that extra time as the ball swings around the perimeter allows him to get a head start on his opponent, and he's got a nice enough touch to finish in close.

It's the same idea on post-ups.

He can be absolutely lethal in close if he's got a mismatch and in a sense he's a bit of a Bargnani 1.0.

Speaking of Bargs, I admittedly watched this game thinking what if...as in "what if Andrea had played."  I'm not big on using scoring as a benchmark of effectiveness, but it was brutally apparent that Toronto needed help on the offensive end yesterday, and I would have loved to have seen what Bargs could have done.  Folks assume I simply "hate Bargnani" when that couldn't be further from the truth.  "I hate" to see this team struggle and underachieve year in and year out, and if I'd love to see Andrea help this club rise from the Atlantic Division ashes.  In fact, with his recent offensive wizardry, I'm extremely interested to see how he performs from here on out, not just on the defensive end, but on O too in terms of keeping his team afloat.

I'll leave the final praise though for Jose Calderon.

To me, numero ocho was the true MVP for the Raptors yesterday.

Toronto fought to the finish, but it wouldn't have been possible without Calderon's 12 assists, and numerous other "Gretzky assists," not to mention his 20 points and overall disposition in a game that some would have said was an automatic L.

Nope, the Jose fans saw yesterday was the one of old, the one who would find seams in the opposition's defence that no one else saw, the one who would drill shots in your face if you dared take away his passing lanes.  Most impressive though was his willingness to get out and run, something the team fed off of in order to take the lead at one point, and keep this game throughout.  Calderon was immediately looking for the lead pass and did a supreme job guiding the team's offence right up until the final whistle.

So what can fans expect Wednesday versus Detroit , more of the same?

Well first it would be nice to get Bargnani and Weems back but more importantly, this team needs another full team effort.

That effort was there today...

...it was just too bad they didn't have a full team to put behind said effort.

Comment 76 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Great write up

You gave credit where credit was do. I like Kleiza and next time he has a bad game you will not hear me scream trade or bench.

by raptball on Dec 20, 2010 7:48 AM EST reply actions  

Excellent write up.

Kleiza looked really good. As the guy who wrote the fan post no need for Kleiza, maybe I need to reconsider…He plays well with Jose, and the other guys he was paired with yesterday. Those guys really moved the ball around.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 20, 2010 7:57 AM EST reply actions  

Agree that Kleiza played very well. He’s put together 3 or 4 really nice games in the past week or so. He seems to be over his achilles injury, gaining confidence and learning his role in the offence which is good to see. His combination of 3s and boards are desperately needed on this team. And if Triano could apply a ‘No more than 2 dribbles’ rule to limit his turnovers we’d be all set.

IMO Mr. Weems should be coming off the bench once healthy.

Jose is ripping it up right now. Hope he stays healthy.

I like it when DD goes 11/11 from the line. Do it again Demar. Do it again.

Shannon Brown is a second unit guy who is definitley ready to assume a starter’s role somewhere. He’s improved his game each year and can now shoot it from 2 and 3 at a high rate and breakdown players off the dribble (just ask Barbosa) and plays solid D. Throw in a winning pedigree and he would make a nice addition. BC, do you hear me?

I read yesterday that the Suns were trying to trade Hedo half way through training camp. What a disaster.

I hope Arenas and JRich blow up in Orlando because I would like to see the Magic give the Heat and Celtics a run for their money.

by Tronix on Dec 20, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I’d love to see another team in the East challenge Miami too, although I’m not convinced Orlando’s recent moves have made them any better.

As for the Raps, it’s going to be instrumental that Triano uses Kleiza in a certain fashion going forward, and not with Andrea Bargnani. The two together remind me of the triangle of death from last year; too many similar skillsets.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 20, 2010 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

not sure

the Raps needed any help on offense.

110 points against the lakers, while shooting .471 (solid fg%)

what they lacked was raw size. Running Dorsey or Amir at C with Kleiza or Wright at PF is an extremely small line up… against a giant Lakers team. Bynums 5 offensive boards was the killer.

The refs not bailing the Lakers out at times would help to.. but thats seems to be expected against those guys….

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 20, 2010 7:59 AM EST reply actions  

+1

Yes, I agree. While the offense wasn’t super smooth on some occasions, I thought the ball moved really well and Calderone, DeRozan and Kleiza did a good job of attacking. The issue was the ability to stop the Lakers. And for me, there is no much really to pick on here as it was more about talent and size than anything else…

by MAS11 on Dec 20, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

The score would indicate that the team didn’t need any more O…but there were so many times when I found myself wishing a better offensive player was taking the shots down the stretch. And right now, that option would be Andrea.

Toronto’s always going to struggle on D until they get better defensive players, so in a match like this, especially without the size and rebounding prowess of an Evans, more scoring sadly might have been the solution.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 20, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Disaree...

No way the Raptors are going to out score the Lakers if LA is putting up 120+. No way. They are one of the better defensive and rebounding teams in the league. They will get stops. They’ve stopped/slowed down WAY better players than Bargnani, so while I won’t argue that the Raptors wouldn’t have scored a few more points, it would have been inconsequential anyways as I don’t see how Bargnani makes them defend or rebound better – which was the difference in the game. The Raptors were outrebounded 46 to 35 and the Lakers got 14 offensive rebounds despite shooting 52% from the field for the game. Besides, the Raptors did put up 110 points and shot 47% with 27 assists (to LA’s 20). So the ball did move relatively well and they shot a good percentage… So pretty sure the offense was not the issue.

by MAS11 on Dec 20, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Although the offense might not have been THE issue… you cannot say without a doubt that Bargnani wouldn’t have upped the offensive output to 121 points on say 55% shooting. And since the defense was pretty atrocious anyway, I think this is a game where he wouldn’t have hurt much on that end.

I agree that ideally the Raptors would have subbed in a monster of a defensive specialist C to help with this game, but they don’t have that. They have Bargnani, and I think he certainly could have helped. I still doubt they would have won (you never know when or how these elite teams will find another gear), but even in a game where the offense is clicking fairly well, improving that offense can still affect the outcome.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 21, 2010 7:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I think you are assuming a lot here. AB shooting 55% against Bynam and Gasol is a bit of wishful thinking here. I am not saying he couldn’t have made a difference but you cannot just assume that he would have been a difference maker in this game as he would have had to deal with two pretty good players on both sides of the court. Can you say without a doubt he would have limited Bynam and Gasol to lower numbers than they put up yesterday?

by McGateway on Dec 21, 2010 7:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I will definitely concede that right now, Bargnani is the Raptors best player (which says a lot more about the current raptor roster than Bargnani). I will also go so far as to say that this team has a better CHANCE of competing with the Lakers with Bargnani than without him. However, I would stop WELL short of suggesting that Bargnani or more scoring might have been the "solution" versus the reigning champs. Even with Bargnani the Raps lose that game. Full stop. In fact who’s to say they don’t get outplayed in the paint even more so with Bargnani in the game? Knowing Bargnani’s interior game that’s hardly a stretch… My point basically was that based on everything I saw and all the stats I could pull, the team seemed to play alright offensively and the larger challenge was controlling the Lakers defensively and on the boards. Two departments I’m hard pressed to think Bargnani would have helped improve in.

by MAS11 on Dec 21, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Franchise

“Speaking of Bargs, I admittedly watched this game thinking what if…as in “what if Andrea had played.”

I remember in the game thread you saying something along the lines of: " I have to admit that without Andrea our offense sucks, there, now I said it!"

which came across as having been so painful for to say as “coming out” :)) haha

To be honest while being bigger, Andrea is still quite smaller than Bynum ( and it needs to be said this was Bynum first game game of the year). For all some guys have said in the mini recap aout the importance of D I cannot stop wondering if this wasn’t a deep (second round) playoff team with Bynum in this roster. You would also suddenly have plenty of tradeable assets too

by renato on Dec 20, 2010 8:20 AM EST reply actions  

???

isn’t this Bynum’s fourth game already coming off the bench?

by Sick M on Dec 20, 2010 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

maybe

not sure, I read something during last week and I assumed yestarday was hist first game but I could have been wrong

by renato on Dec 20, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, he’s played a few games, four sounds about right.

And while I’m still not convinced Bargs is the answer to all the team’s problems, I did feel last night that the club could have used his skillset.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 20, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm a Bargnani supporter but

Bynam is a man among men, he’d push Bargs around like nothing. He’s a true center, that’s why he moves Gasol over to the 4 when he’s around.

by raptball on Dec 20, 2010 8:25 AM EST reply actions  

yup although

he could not guard Andrea either, normally they send out Odom or Pau on him

by renato on Dec 20, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

And truthfully, Barnes or Artest would probably be better options to send out on Bargnani. He seems to struggle putting the ball on the floor with smaller, mobile guys guarding him closely.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 20, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m just talking about guys who would have success guarding Bargs on the perimeter, and preventing him from putting the ball on the floor.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 20, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Bargs trying to post up Barnes or Artest would have been very interesting…really sucks he didn’t play last night.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 20, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

great article francise..love the pic too

Kobe and derozan..teacher & student…could DD be like his mentor kobe some day? Maybe not but of he keeps working hard and gives results like yesterday who knows..kobe has said in interviews he likes DD upside (since they have played together in the summer) just patients..it’ll be fun to watch if he “gets it”

by sherwin316 on Dec 20, 2010 8:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Kobe

completely schooled Derozan

by Sick M on Dec 20, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions  

The educatoin of Demar DeRozan

Yesterday was like a tale of two halves for DeRozan. The first half, school was in session. Kobe basicaly said to DeRozan “here son, this is how you play basketball”. What I like though was DeRozan didn’t wilt, he went into attack mode in the third quarter. Let’s hope (man I’m praying) that this game was one of those development milestones that are so important for young players.

by MAS11 on Dec 20, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think DeRozan is “intimidated” by Kobe for one reason.. He’s been a Kobe protege since he was a teen. He’d been attending Kobe’s camps and has known him his entire “career”.

So literally, Kobe’s been taking him to school since he was 12. It’s probably also why DeRo has had some of his better games vs KB. DD is one his his boys.

by Ustation on Dec 20, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I want to see that 3rd quarter play from DeRozan for all four quarters (or close to it) against Detroit on Wednesday. No reason he can’t.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 20, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

By the way.. I’d love to host a New Years eve party and invite Kris Humphries, and Sasha Vujacic. I’m sure I’d talk about basketball for 5 minutes..

by Ustation on Dec 20, 2010 9:21 AM EST reply actions  

yes, you do that

I’ll have a word with Kim and Maria in the meantime

by renato on Dec 20, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Ha!

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 20, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

From a coaching standpoint...

Do you think Triano chose to rest Bargs with his “sore ankle” because he knew this game wasn’t winnable?

No sense burning Bargnani out in a game where the outcome seems inevitable.

Also using the opportunity to geet some of the lesser played guys some valuable experience?

If so I would say Triano deserves a nod of distinction for a smart gameplan in the big picture.

by Mikthaniel on Dec 20, 2010 11:12 AM EST reply actions  

I thought about that but...

if they consider this season as “lost” emaning the end record being not important, which game is it better to play good? one against the lakers which has (US) national coverage (and that can be used to attract/lure free agents) or with the Nets??? I would say that, following your reasoning the organisation wants to reach the playoffs.

by renato on Dec 20, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

But on the other hand...

They’re “expected” to lose to the Lakers… so Bargnani has a “sore ankle”…

But you look weak if you lose to the Nets… so Bargnani scores 32 points…

It’s called picking your battles, fight the ones you can win, learn from the ones you don’t…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 20, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Besides, they aren't shopping or showcasing Bargnani...

… and they don’t want to have competition forcing them to pay him too much to keep…

May as well keep him off TV so you can keep him from getting big offers (IF you don’t want to lose him)…

Me personally, I want teams beating my door down and throwing me good players to get him… but Colangelo isn’t havin’ none of that…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 20, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting theory

I also wonder what’s going on in BC’s head right now…we’re at the trimester mark pretty much, and the Raps haven’t beaten anyone really other than the dregs of the league (and OKC and Boston missing their top dogs), and also haven’t been healthy enough to compete at times…so maybe he’s thinking about a little “tank-a-palooza?”

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 20, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Really? AB is signed through 2015 so I really doubt that BC is worried that someone will offer AB more money to play somewhere else in the near future.

by McGateway on Dec 21, 2010 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL @ “and they don’t want to have competition forcing them to pay him too much to keep…”

Oh the irony of this quote… the irony… No, don’t worry about competition to sign him. BC took care of that by competing against himself and signing him to a $50+ million deal in the same summer that David Lee couldn’t get a long term contract.

by MAS11 on Dec 21, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

On Colangelo

I guess as usual, I’m on the “pro” side since I’m a Colangelo supporter. He’s done a hell of a good job. Imagine what he could do in Boston or Orlando or LA where they pay to win.

by raptball on Dec 20, 2010 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

Hell of a good job?

Um…the team is on pace to win about 30 games and this is year 5 of his reign. He’s been barely better than Rob Babcock in terms of on-court success!

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 20, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the perception that Colangelo is superior comes from the fact that when Babcock whiffed, it was on laughingstocks like Hoffa or passing on Danny Granger twice or dealing Vince Carter for pennies on the dollar (followed by Zo Mourning refusing to report, etc). Babcock’s mistakes were epic failures and he never carried himself with enough confidence to fool people into thinking he knew what he was doing.

When Colangelo has whiffed, it’s been on big-name trades and signings like Jermaine O’Neal and Hedo Turkoglu. Names like J.O. and Turk had cachet based on prior accomplishments, and the perception was that they would elevate Toronto to some previously unseen level (50 wins?). In hindsight, those players are viewed as at fault as opposed to the GM who acquired them in the first place.

Plus, Colangelo carries himself in such a Teflon Don-type of way, that he’ll always have his supporters regardless of his transaction record. And his smaller moves (Barbosa, Bayless, etc) always seem to work out.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 20, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean building around a centre who can’t defend properly? How is that flawed? ;)

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 20, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

it worked wuite well in phoenix tho

and no they did not win it all for various circumstances but you could not sau that was not successful basketball

by renato on Dec 21, 2010 2:20 AM EST up reply actions  

No NASH worked well in Pheonix

Steve Nash is a singular talent that has worked with pretty much whoever else you can throw around him. And yes you’re wright, despite having one of the best PGs in the history of the NBA, they have failed to win anything of significance.

by MAS11 on Dec 21, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

To put it simply -

Jump shots are more important than stops and rebounds. He has gone on record many times saying that he wanted to import a more European style, which is predicated on drive and kick basketball. This continues to floor me. Imagine Brian Burke or another Hockey GM saying he wants to build his team around the style they play in the Sweedish league. Or a Major League Baseball GM saying he wants to build his team around a style used in double A baseball minor leagues.

Colangelo has always wanted to build a team that was exciting offensively, as the thought was that exciting offense would lead to ticket sales. Too bad it doesn’t necessarily translate into wins.

by MAS11 on Dec 21, 2010 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

First to admit

The business side of the game is beyond me but he has fixed what turned out to be mistakes. I just happen to really like Bayless, Bargnani, Jose, Barbosa, Reggie, Amir and Kleiza. I think there is some room to do more now and most of all, which you brush off or ignore is that he is working for an organization that can’t or won’t spend to win.Please don’t tell me you don’t need to spend to have a winning team.

by raptball on Dec 20, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the idea that the Raptors’ organization won’t spend to win is a bit of a myth. The Raptors are right up against the luxury tax. If you want to criticize their spending, they are not the Memphis Grizzlies by any stretch of the imagination. I think they would enter tax territory, if it made sense from a competitive standpoint. But let’s face it, this team has not had the need to even entertain that thought in many, many seasons.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 20, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. There has been no opportunity to go into the tax.

by dhackett1565 on Dec 21, 2010 7:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't get you guys at all

You guys must work for Rap’s ownership do you? If you have a race car team , you don’t go with low power cars and say I’m not going to spend more money till this car starts winning. What a strange attitude!

by raptball on Dec 21, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Couldn’t you argue though that the team would be better off not spending money? The team is not going to win either way and they could have been just over the cap and still been bad. If you continuously spend bad money then you will always be up against the tax and still going nowhere.

by McGateway on Dec 21, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions  

You are forgetting though that he made those mistakes in the first place. It is not like BC has really learned from his mistakes as he continues to make the same ones over and over again. Until he shows that he has seen the error of his ways, I cannot support him as a GM.

by McGateway on Dec 21, 2010 7:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Good time to make trades

I didn’t get to see the game, but from reading the comments it looks like they stepped up their game to play the Lake-show. I can’t be more happy that they were able to challenge the Lakers for the majority of the game. However, I do think that Colangelo needs to use this time effectively and assess the trade value of players.

I am the most critical of DeMar’s game because I still believe that he is young and still has to develop. I cannot rely just on his performance against the Lakers and forget about what he has done this far into the season. I honestly believe that OJ Mayo should be the prime target for the Raptors to obtain to solidfy the Raptors backcourt. No knock on Demar, but the Raptors need a player that will automatically make a difference on both the defensive and offensive end. Demar’s play of late has warrented looks from other teams, so I wouldn’t be suprised if he is moved.

I think that the time is now for changes. Raptors fans have been far to patient with the team’s development. The team needs an all-star caliber player or a potential all-star to make a step in the right direction.

Also, I think that Raptors management should become impatient because any failure of the team to draw fan support will jeopardize their future as a franchise.

by Slick_Rick on Dec 20, 2010 1:08 PM EST reply actions  

before getting into that there is an ananswered question (or maybe even an unasked question)

It all depends on what time frame we are working with

Example:
   - If we want/hope to make the playoffs even this year or next year you could be correct, plues I would not trade JC
   - if
  

by renato on Dec 20, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

love this website that keeps changing while refreshing....

before getting into that there is an ananswered question (or maybe even an unasked question)

It all depends on what time frame we are working with

Example:
   - If we want/hope to make the playoffs even this year or next year you could be correct, plues I would not trade JC
   - if we are talking three years you could be wrong but I WOULD look for JC suitors…

end so on.

so the question is: what is the strategy? and what is it’s timeframe?

by renato on Dec 20, 2010 2:29 PM EST reply actions  

Exactly...

As far as we know, the idea is to look competitive and fight hard while building over the next couple of years too being a serious playoff team…

That means Jose shining now is great for trade value, but he should only be traded if we KNOW we are getting a permanent starting PG…

That either means a trade before the draft FOR another starting PG (not likely), drafting one (probably not either) or a trade next year…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 20, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing I like about Jose Calderon – when he’s performing at a high level – is that he does a great job getting the Raptors into their offence, distributing the ball (12 assists vs. the Lakers plus countless other “hockey assists”) and limiting turnovers. Obviously, his defensive shortcomings have been brought up on numerous occasions. But with Jose, the good generally outweighs the bad.

So ask yourself this question: How was a young team like the Raptors able to hold their own against the defending champion Lakers? And does having a heady, veteran PG running the show have value to a young team? I say it does, and I’d be disappointed to see the team give up on Calderon without a replacement already in place via a trade or the draft.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 20, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yuppers...

only for a younger certified starter… only way we can let him go…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 20, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Teamwise though, how many bad defenders can you hide on a given lineup? (if you’re seriously thinking playoffs)

I mean Turk, Bargs JC at the same time last year was a joke and Bargs, JC, derozan/weems/whoever isn’t much better. They all just combine to make each other look bad…

We need some guys out there who are not going to get beat so easily.

by axl t on Dec 20, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

But consider how few PG's get "stopped"...

It’s really up to the other positions to play above average team defense while the PG plays passable defense…

Jose, nor anybody else, is gonna “stop” Rondo or Rose or Paul or Wall or Ellis or Felton etc. etc.

How well the rest of the team is at rotating and covering is the key…

So I agree with your overall notion, I just think the PG spot is the least critical to be “lock-down” that’s all…

by Mikthaniel on Dec 20, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t disagree at all… My point is that you can’t have multiple defensive liabilities on the floor at once and that JC and Bargs are two parts of a trifecta of defensive liabilities as far as slowing or stopping penetration. JC can’t consistently stay in front of his man and Bargs can’t consistently make the right or quick enough choice on help. Though it occurs to me now, JC is pretty good rotating to help and bargs is pretty good at staying in front of his man…

Either way, people get to the bucket too easy… Happens too much with derozan/weems too.

It’s almost like they are not poor defenders per se, but actually avoid contact (maybe because JT and sam before him have always been so quick to pull guys out). Bargnani’s about the only guy who could conceivably justify avoiding contact to stay on the floor.

by axl t on Dec 20, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Jose “stop” those guys more that he, at the very least, direct them and slow them down.

You just can’t let the opposing PG waltz into the lane and be allowed to distribute the ball, it’s a recipe for disaster. If you don’t have good defense at the PG position it will compromise the rest of your defense just the same if not more than at any other position, imo.

by even flow on Dec 20, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Some great points.

I agree that a healthy Jose is simply too valuable to trade for uncertain assets. I also think he’d be one of the best back-up PG’s in the league so while overpaid, if the Raptors can draft a legit starter, or somehow trade for one, the team is in great shape at that position for a while.

For me the real issue is players like DeRozan, Weems, and even Bargs. They need to show this season that they can indeed be important pieces of the team’s future.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Dec 20, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

When you get back to the T Dot, we should ceremoniously burn the Sonny Weems bandwagon. My god he’s been awful lately.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 20, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I totally agree.

How much better the ball moved without him was mind blowing.

The fact that Kleiza clearly is playing better defense than him on traditional 3s is inexcusable.

by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 20, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Backup?

he is playing like a legit starter in my opinion, and a quite good one also

by renato on Dec 21, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

“So ask yourself this question: How was a young team like the Raptors able to hold their own against the defending champion Lakers?”

Because the Lakers didn’t play defense in the 1st half and played in 3rd gear the whole game?

But I’m kind of with you on the Calderon thing.

by even flow on Dec 20, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I just think a young team like the Raptors is going to lose to the Lakers anyway. But at least Calderon runs the show in such a manner that the young kids perform well and build some confidence against the league’s elite. DeRozan dropping 19 in the 3rd quarter, Dorsey finishing in the lane after a nice pick and roll, etc.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 20, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Aren’t you being a little generous with Jose here? Steve Blake is decent PG but he is hardly the type to burn Calderon on possession after possession. Calderon needs to play this way regardless of who the opposing PG is.

by McGateway on Dec 21, 2010 8:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Kleiza over Weems

Love the upside on Sonny. Tonnes of potential but lacks drive on D and polish on O…so he’s more a work in progress. Kleiza is an accomplished player, or so I have heard.

The reality is the timing is right for Linas to start for a while and Sonny should come off the bench…then they should both push each other to play better because they will be competing for playing time the rest of the season. Good luck to both of them. It’s time for Linas to regain his World Championships 2010 form. Maybe another 40+ game will give him some confidence. I expected a lot more out of him this year as did most, but he can still prove me wrong. Please do so Linas.

And get well Sonny.

Question HQ: Why can’t Demar and Sonny channel their energy into playing better on the defensive end? They seem athletic enough to do better if they committed to it.

And how’s Reggie? And why can’t Amir stop reaching in? Thanks

by defensive rap on Dec 21, 2010 5:50 AM EST reply actions  

+1

Have not been impressed by Weems – too much show and not enough graft recently.

Would continue to start with Kleiza and let Weems and DDR fight it out for time.

by Canuck Exile on Dec 21, 2010 6:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

RaptorsHQ is a growing, interactive community committed to providing the best Raptors and Canadian basketball content on the web.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Raptors and the Summer of 2013
Small
All Things Tanking Pt.2
Small
All Things Tanking  Pt.1
Small
The Jared Sullinger Project
Small
The Disturbing Parallels of Briyan Burkeangelo
Small
Who kidnapped James Johnson & replaced him with this guy?
In_rainbows_small
I am concerned; I think fans should be concerned.
Tfc_academy_small
Andrea Bargnani Interview
Small
Ed Davis and how he defines the Raps future
Small
Fan Perspective: Demar Derozan

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

2009_0503draft09-20006_-_williams_solo_small Adam Francis

Basketball_20gym_20in_20sun2009-01-27-1233091216_small RaptorsHQ - Howland

Editors

Viciousd_2005-01-20_small Raptors HQ - Vicious D

Authors

Burgundy_small RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance

Img_0813_small rbala