Tip-In: Il Mago - Bargnani Powers Raptors Past Nets in Fourth

while I believe this is just the second time he goes over 30 I believe there is a sizable number of games he got 25+ and a bigger sample where he was 20+ (in 25 games plaid so far) I believe also rebounding is about 8 per game after Evans went down.
These performances come off a season where for the first time he is (or should be, more on that later) carrying the weight of the offense and, as you said, basically alone (Chris had Drea to keep opponents honest, who does Drea have?).
For your own admission Andrea’s performance has crushed your expectations this season and yet you do not (ever) seem satisfied with it. I also remember at the beginning of the season we said we should allow a period for him (but also for the team) to get used to be the 1st option. I can live with him having an off night or two and I can live also with the team not giving him the ball in his sweet spots for a game or two as they ALL need to get used to the situation and are still exploring ways to get the most of him in the NEW situation. Put the two together and I can see a bit of a roller coaster kind of thing, but it cannot be denied the trend underneath the swings, is up.
That said, again, I buy the argument on his D, which is more irritating since there is an “on” position on D as well and one has to wonder why it isn’t “on” all the time. I have to say however the same people who like to bash Andrea’s D are often cheering for players who are no better than him on D or overall which make the whole thing a bit puzzling.

So, at the end, I would like constant production (which means what for him 25+ average? because this is what we are talking about if we add consistency) but he should be allowed to go trough some growing pain since also expectations on his role are growing at the same time.

So, to finish up this rant, who gave you sore eyes? maybe they are a bit self inflicted?

even in the 1st half AB was the only guy that offered good resistance to brook lopez & humpries… blocking shots & just being big… even when his shots was struggling. there were a few lapses but even bill russell, malone or the greatest defenders gets scored on at times. & when AB was out amir was busy collecting silly fouls getting the team to penalty & dorsey & davis were getting abused by lopez & humpries & favors at will.

actual definition – “ability to be asserted together without contradiction”

in more laymans terms in reference to a player/sport/person etc. – to do the same thing (or close to) on a regular basis.

So with Bargs its him being even close to the same player in any game or in any quarter. This doesn’t mean a player can’t have a bad game or an exceptional game… but regularily provide the same thing on any given day.

As for his scoring… yes he consistently puts up around 20 points a game. However how he shoots (fg%) is inconsistent. How he rebounds is inconsistent. How hard he tries (on D and on O… such as attacking the basket) is inconsistent. This not only changes game to game, but can swing wildly within a game itself.

As for Bargs D, I highly question how every player that has ever started in a Raps uni since Bargs became a regular starter is seen as a bad defender (Jose, Jack, Weems, Derozan, Hedo, Bosh, Moon, Parker, Kleiza, Evans…. now I don’t agree that those guys are all bad defenders, but they have been accused of being bad defenders on numerous occasions around here). He is the only constant in that equation…. there is the reasonable possibility that he is so bad on D he hurts everyone else. Not that that means everyone is good and Bargs makes them look bad, but rather they are at the very least no as bad as he makes them look… or as bad as he is.

Man, we sound like Philadelphia Eagles fans. Why do we pan the best player on our team all the time?

Andrea had a good game and was the main reason we won, especially in the second half. He has continued to improve, in my opinion, every year he has played. He’s an offensive minded centre, with a very high skill set and a bunch of role players around him. He’s not KG, he is what he is. Luckily for us he keeps getting better and what he is continues to be better than what he was.

One thing to consider, how many Raptor players have solid contracts that another team would like to have? I think you could argue, that for all the Raptors making 5 million plus this season that Andrea is the best value and the most desirable asset on the team. That says to me we should consider discussing the short comings of other players. The only guy who lived up to expectations was Reggie and he’s hurt.

Where’s Linas been? Why can’t Amir stop fouling and still be aggressive? Jose needs to be more consistent and continue to try harder on D.
Demar and Sonny both need to pick up their games a lot or move to the bench.

Who has done their job? Andrea, Barbosa and Reggie and even though there is room for improvement in his decision making, Bayless should be mentioned as well.

Truthfully Andrea is one of the least interesting players to discuss their progress on this team. He’s doing what we expected, maybe even a bit better. The rest of the starting lineup has been playing below expectations and maybe if Sonny, Demar Linas and Jose started hitting their shots it would open up the floor for Andrea.

I don’t even like Bargs, but he’s not the Raptor I am upset with and he’s not the guy that has hurt his team the most. He has probably been our best player this season though he is far from perfect and his D is and always has been an issue especially on the pick and roll. No one can argue that, but he’s also the only Raptor who has commanded a double team regularly as well. I hope he keeps improving.

That bargs is also the second leading scorer behind Dwight in the center position..and a lot of people always complained bout his rebounding numbers but since Reggie has gone down he is averaging 8 boards a game..so the man is the second leading scorer in the center position in the whole NBA and is averaging 8 boards and yet he still gets bash from time to time..even in the bobcat game people were saying he played horrible etc. Well pretty hard to play good when your suffering from a knee Injury..this season is all bout development with everybody on this roster let’s just sit back and try and enjoy the ride.

he’s my favorite player but he shot 5-16 from the field, he did start of the game with 7 points going 3-6 and i’d like to see him play like that throughout the whole game, at the end of the third quarter it seemed like he was just throwing up the ball hoping it would fall. I thought he was better defensively in my opinion. i did like that he kind of still tried to break out of struggling at the end, and sealed the game with that sickk dunk :)

Hedo back in Orlando….. it is true there is one fool born every day….. hahahahahahha

I myself would prefer a defensive player who can board, block shots and protect the lane to play the centre spot. But that being said, Bargs is the only player on this team who has exceeded expectations and raised his game yoy.

For the 9 games in December he is averaging 22.6pts/7rebs/.89blks/4FTA/31% 3pts/52% 2pts

At the beginning of the season I said I would be happy if he could average 20+pts/8rebs/2blks per game. But beyond the numbers I’ve been impressed by how he has handled being the first option on offense, the craftyness with which he has broken down defences to create his own shots and how he has shown glimpses of being clutch. These have all beenn pleseant surprises to me. He will never be a good defensive centre and I accept that. And because of that he will never be a favourite player of mine but he is not the problem on this team.

The biggest disappointment on this team for me has been Demar. I don’t have the stats to back it up but his per minute production must be close to the worst amongst starting SGs in the league. Any improvement in his scoring has simply been the result of a 50% increase in his minutes yoy. There is no development of his game that I can see – still no midrange J, zero 3 pt range, no passing/playmaking, little in the way of rebounding, no steals and uninspiring defence. Alarmingly, the lack of playmaking, rebounding and steals/defense is the result of an inability to read plays as they develop and speaks to a low basketball IQ. Not good.

Most surprising to me is his inability to finish at the rim in traffic. The only time he actually finishes is on a wide open breakaway dunk/layup. I don’t understand this as he was touted as such a great athlete who could jump out of the gym when he was drafted. Although the window is far from closed on his development as a player his lack of actual basketball skills has me worried that we used a lottery pick on an athlete and not a basketball player.

Please prove me wrong Demar and I will happily eat these words.

On the flip side, I have been impressed by Barbosa and how he has bounced back from his wrist and shoulder injuries. He just looks like a player who knows what he is doing. His ability to drive to the rim and finish is huge on this team. As is his ability to stretch the D with his 3 point shooting. He never has that confused and/or ‘deer in the headlights’ look that is so common on Demar, Sonny, and Bargs. And his ability to turn up the defensive pressure from time to time is also much appreciated.

Finally, Amir’s foul issues are really starting to piss me off. Fix it.

Off topic guys but a big trade just went down with Orlando, Washington and the suns…its crazy!!

is anybody in here still interested in trading for him? I am not sure about his age/contract but we do not have any project to develop at the 3 (DD and sonny are more 2s)

Wow a lot of players got moved..Lewis, gortat earl Clark, hedo b

Wow a lot of players got moved..Lewis, gortat earl Clark, hedo back with the magic ..j-rich, pietrus..wow

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What else is there to do, besides talk about Bargnani – inbetween some serious trades.

Reggie goes down in Boston
Post Reggie – Barg numbers:

• Nov 28th vs Atlanta (L) 14 pts – 7 Rb – 0 Assists – .353 fg%
• Dec 1st vs Wash (W) 18 pts – 8 Rb – 3 Assists – .615
• Dec 3rd vs OKC (W) 26 pts – 12 Rb – 2 assists – .550
• Dec 5th vs NYK (L) 16 pts – 7 Rb – 2 assists – .421
• Dec 6th @ Ind. (L) 12 pts – 4 Rb – 1 assist – .455
• Dec 8th @ NYK (L) 41 pts – 7 Rb – 6 assists – .667
• Dec 10 vs Denver (L) 24 pts – 3 Rb – 3 assists – .412
• Dec 11 @ Detroit (W) 22 pts – 5 Rb – 2 assists – .615
• Dec 14 @ Charlotte (L) 12 pts – 8 Rb – 2 assists – .286
• Dec 15 vs Chicago (L) – DNP (knee)
• Dec 17th vs NJersey (W) 32 pts – 9 Rb – 2 assists – .538

10 games 21.7 ppg – 7.0 Rb – 2.3 apg – .500 fg%

The beauty of ample hindsight – is that you can understand trends & lapses in stats. Such as injuries, and how they impact.

It’s been argued a lot, some time over and over again, that Andrea is not consistent. And while I’m not sure what defines consistent, I do believe the past 10 games (that AB has played) – post Reggie – have been fairly consistent. Toss out the Charlotte "my knees hurt" game and you have 2 matches where Andrea scores less than 15. Andrea’s rebounding (on the AB scale) has been pretty decent. We all want it to be better – who doesn’t – however, it’s not a pressing need.

• Toronto is 13th in Rebounding (post-Reggie), compared to 24th all last season.
• Toronto is 4th in Offensive rebounding (post-Reggie) – 26th last season.

Bargnani’s assists are tracking higher (2.3) vs last year’s 1.2 – when he had someone he could pass to, that actually scored more than 13 points a game – aka … this year’s # 2 guy. Be curious to know his number of "hockey assists".
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Also, beside Charlotte (where Bargnani did not practice), his lowest fg% of .353 was the only game below .400. If there is any inconsistency, it’s not getting more .600+ scores (3 out of 10).
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Don’t know if anyone saw this quote from Brook Lopez of the Nets re “The Magician”

“Every game I have played against him he has gotten better. He’s a fantastic player, and is always a great challenge for me. Obviously he is a knock down shooter. and he plays very well off of that. You have to respect his shot, he pump fakes, puts it on the floor & gets to the basket. He is playing more in the post too. He is doing a fantastic job.”

Comments after the Nets ( who are the 16th best defensive team at 98 points allowed) but 29th offensive team at 92 points scored, lost to the Raptors who are the 25th ranked defensive team and 9th ranked offensive team by 98-92 Saturday.
The reason the game was close in the first half was the Raptors could not make a shot, shooting only 39% till the last couple of shots brought it to 40%. They shot 58% in the 4th to Nets 35%, all you need to know.

Forget all the stupid garbage you read by know it all bloggers and fans and listen to someone who competes on the court with Andrea.

I feel for you guy but it is probably best to not play into the Bargnani discussions. I get sucked into it all the time myself. Bargs for these guys is just someone they can stand. All your efforts to convince will be met with some kind of rebutal. They see us (supporters) as blind to his deficencies.
It really boils down to opinion. The haters put huge onus on the areas where he is lacking in defense. They see that as all important and nothing he does on the offensive end comes close to compensating for his defensive woes. They see defense as 80% + of a player’s worth. Nothing you say will change that. It is a matter of opinion and philosophy.