Tip-In: Outmatched - Shorthanded Raps Lose to Superior Bulls Squad
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Dec 16, 2010 8:00 AM EST
in Tip-In (Post Game Reports)
Email
PrintSome nights things go as expected and tonight was one of those nights.
In a game where the Raps were missing three of their starters the were absolutely dominated by a red-hot Chicago Bulls team.
This was a game to forget.
Last night the Chicago Bulls manhandled the Toronto Raptors and left the ACC with a 110-93 victory.
To be honest this game was over as soon as it was announced that Andrea Bargnani would be sitting this one out with a knee issue. Already short Reggie Evans and Jose Calderon the final nail was in the coffin even before the opening tip.
That's not meant to be a negative statement. It's just unrealistic to expect a young, inexperienced and short-handed Raptors team to compete with this Chicago Bulls team.
The Bulls are downright impressive. With Carlos Boozer, the teams biggest off-season acquisition, with his legs under him the Bulls are now hitting their stride and on a roll. The team is set at the point-guard, power forward and center position for years to come, have a very good coach in Tom Thibodeau (more on him below) and perhaps most importantly, a clear identity. They rely on their rebounding (2nd in the league) and their defense (9th) to win games. They also run beautiful half-court sets.
The Bulls and the Raptors are simply at different stages at this point in time. While the Raptors are using this season to build, get their young guys some experience and look to the future, for the Bulls the future is now.
It was evident early that this wasn't going to be much of a game. In the opening quarter it was obvious that the Bulls were going to be able to get any shot they wanted and lots of them. Boozer and Noah each had a double double and the Raptors young big men just couldn't match-up on the glass. The Bulls were quick to recognize the huge advantage they had in the front court and they went back to the well over and over again.
For the Raptors big-men this was a lesson. School was in. The teacher? Boozer. The students? Ed Davis and Joey Dorsey. Each of Davis and Dorsey did have a double double as Davis went for 10 points and 10 rebounds while Dorsey had 12 points and 13 rebounds, but they were no match for Carlos Boozer.
There is value in these lessons. Ed Davis needs to experience these sorts of nights and hopefully he remembers them when the off-season training rolls around. What Davis is experiencing is not unlike what Bosh experienced in his first season. He is simply too slight, too raw and too inexperienced. He does, much like Bosh in 2003, show flashes. Although Davis has logged limited minutes this season he is showing potential.
For Dorsey this was an opportunity to show he should get more burn - in particular with Reggie Evans sporting the crutches. Dorsey has an extremely wide body and has a knack for getting rebounds. He made a good case for getting a few more minutes tonight.
Te Raptors also got good performances out of Jerryd Bayless and Leandro Barbosa once again and once again the Raptors wing players struggled. Weems and DeRozan were non-factors while Linus Kleiza and Julien Wright did little to impress. In a game where the Raps needed all hands on deck it was their wing players who really let them down.
This lack of wing production is albeit disappointing. I fully expected DeRozan and Weems to experience growing pains but the production from Wright and Kleiza has been underwhelming. As I mentioned in the chat last night I would like to see all four of these guys have an equal opportunity and, depending on the flow of the game, let the hot hand play. I have a hard time believing that Wright is consistently being outplayed by Weems and DeRozan in practice.
The Raptors simply lost to the better team - and unlike in the recent game against the Pistons, there was no miracle comeback to be had. Even when the Raps did seem to get a little momentum Coach Thibodeau was quick with the time-outs and settled his players. By all accounts Thibodeau looks to be a great hire for the Bulls and although one game doesn't tell a full story it was obvious that he has complete control his team and has a great feel for the flow of a game. If he can keep the Bulls focused on the defensive end there is no reason, shy the injury bug, they can't be a major factor come playoff time. I couldn't help but think Jay Triano could learn a thing or two from his Bulls counterpart.
The Raps can't let this loss linger as there is a very winnable game coming on Friday night against the Nets at the ACC.
Last, although a small point, I was a little disappointed we didn't get to see Solomon Alabi on the court tonight. It would have been nice to see this kid get some burn.
95 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Alabi – It doesn’t really surprise me that he didn’t play. This team is terrible about developing 2nd rounders not named Bonner so it shouldn’t surprise anyone.
Care to generalize? The only 2nd round picks the Raptors have had that have played with the current staff were Roko Ukic and Nathan Jawai, and neither of them were talented enough to stay in the league, despite playing for at least one other team. That was obviously not a problem developing them.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Care to assume? I was speaking of the Raptors as an organization which is why I refered to Bonner ( who was brought in before the current staff). P.S. Have you forgotten about PJ Tucker?
Who really cares how the Raptors, as an organization, have done over their lifetime. We’re talking about dozens of coaches, front office staff, scouts, players, etc. Some were good, some half decent and a few not so good. You can’t exactly lump them all together simply because they worked for the same name.
Ya, I forgot about PJ Tucker, but are you suggesting he had the makings of a half decent NBA player? I don’t think he did. I don’t think development is the problem. I think the problem is that the Raptors have not had much luck finding NBA players in the second round. Of course, the majority of second round picks end up the same way the Raptor’s 2nd round picks do.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
P.S.
Love the photo. Boozer is showing his jazz hands.
I'm confused...
I thought that with Andrea’s terrible +/- stat not in the game we were supposed to have a BETTER chance at winning games…
It seems to me that was the big talk after he scored 41… that his scoring was meaningless because he played bad defense…
But now only days later, we had lost before we even stepped on the court because Bargs was a scratch for the game…
So confusing…
Here's what I posted in the live game thread:
I’m glad the Raps came out and showed without a doubt that it is Bargnani and Calderon that are the primary reasons for the defensive problems, to the extent that their defense negates their offense.
Not counting the 4th (in which Noah, Rose, and Boozer played a combined 0 minutes), the Bulls were on pace to winning 121-85. They haven’t scored that much even once over their 7 game winning streak, and have averaged only 102 PPG. The Raptors were outscored in the paint 62-46 – can’t imagine how that happened without Bargnani’s porous help defense down there. Weird how the Raps were out-rebounded 47-37 in this game, with Bargnani’s no-rebound-talent sitting on the bench.
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Bargnani’s scoring isn’t meaningless, but unless he scores over a certain amount, he’s a detriment to the team because he’s such a liability on the defensive end.
The Raptors were missing their two best offensive players, which hurt them, but it’s a little ignorant to be making judgements after one game. Last night the Raptors had an average starting unit age of 22 years old, no real PG, so no one to set up their offense, and were playing one of the best teams in the league with one of the best defenses. If both Bargnani and Calderon had played, they still would have gotten spanked.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
+1
Plus, despite playing against two of the leagues top rebounders (Boozer and Noah) and probably the best starting frontcourt this side of the Lakers, two very young and raw players (Doresy and Davis) BOTH managed double doubles. If Bagnani had played significant minutes, I would argue the rebounding totals would have been WORSE as Bargnani would have only grabbed his pathetic 5 rebounds.
Don’t agree at all. Put legitimate wings around him and its a whole different story. Look at what happen last night, the Bulls being a below average scoring team put up 40 in the second and had 93 at the end of the 3rd. Obviously the defense has bigger issues than Andrea.
In fact I’m starting to wonder how much of this has to do with the coaching and system in place. Bayless said something very interesting after he came here, he said that the defensive system was nothing like what they ran in Portland and New Orleans.
Put legitimate wings around who? Bayless? If you put a guy like Brandon Roy or Kobe Bryant, that you can run an offense through, then I agree. Otherwise, you’d still have the same problems, just less pronounced. Without SOMEONE who can run the offense, Bayless would not be able to start or play significant minutes. The problem, though, is that he really needs the ball to be effective, so making him play off the ball would hurt his effectiveness. That’s why I think he’s best as a 20 mpg guy off the bench.
And just because the defensive system isn’t anything like New Orleans and Portland, doesn’t mean it’s a problem. I’m pretty sure P.J. Carlesimo is a top-notch assistant coach who knows what he’s doing on the defensive end.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
i am also confused
i dont really think people understand plus minus…….. bench players on the raptors tend to have a better plus minus since they come in to play against second units of other teams, so does that mean if those players started , it would carry over to be a positive number?
I dont think so…..Andrea plays most of the game and well how can he have a great plus minus if we loose most of the games, and now he doesnt play, we get spanked even more….. I think fans read way to much into plus minuses to many variables that can effect it and remember its not 1 on 5, its 5 on 5
i posted in another thread
but +/- is not about the value… but the context of the value. Just like any stat. you don’t think there is a correlation between Bargs best +/- in the last 3 games (0 in a win) and him playing his best defense of late? (was a -15 going into the 4th)
As for last nights game do you seriously think the team got spanked just because Andrea didn’t play? You don’t think being down 3 starters (although Reggie I will say is marginal as a starter), only having 3 bigs… and then one in foul trouble, playing an elite team in the bulls, and having the youngest starting line up in Raps history had nothing to do with it?
Please.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 16, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
-/+ is a horrible stat to use to determine a players effectiveness. There are at the very least, 20 different variable to take into account. The fact that you rely on it so much speaks volumes about you.
my goodness
I don’t ‘rely’ on it. Its simply another factor. And just because its not perfect doesn’t mean it should just be disregarded.
I don’t need any stat to tell me Bargs defense and rebounding is horrible.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 16, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Man i just hate this guy who writes these things.
when someone has 1 good game he jumps on their bandwagon, when he insults demar and sonny because they’re inconsistent, well theres a reason for that sir… their young, just chill, jay isn’t going to start julian wright over demar because the team would get smoked! he’s only doing well because he’s playing at the end of games when the shitty players from other teams are playing
Not sure if this is directed at me....
but I am not insulting DeMar. I have been consistent with the position that next year is the time to truly evaluate him as a player.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Dec 16, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
demarD
Right on . This +/- shit is rediculous. It’s been used here by the “pile on” gang to try and discredit certain players. Glad to see you are not drinking the cool aid
BBIQ
I didn’t manage to catch the game last night, probably a good thing. However, the commenting during the Bobcats game got me wondering about the BBIQ again.
There was the usual ragging on Andrea, which is now par for the course. It’s funny the joy the pro AB camp gets when he scores, and the joy the hating camp gets when he struggles. I joined at the half way mark of the game and ask for a recap, and got the AB struggling update and the first thing I said was you can’t base it on an individual game good or bad, but to me it looked like AB was either sick or hurt.
But the issue I had was when the number of complaints when AB returned in the 4th quarter, and everyone critiqued Jay. To me, it looked like JT was prepared to have AB sit until the final 2, but subbed him in when Davis picked up 5 fouls. The KEY is 5 fouls. At that point AB had played only 23 minutes into the late 4th Q. Essentially Davis WAS playing AB minutes until 2 quick fouls in the 4th. The fans got all upset at AB reentering the game, and that’s where I question the IQ. The value of keeping a player like Davis with 5 fouls in specific end of game scenarios is tremendous. Not only that, his level of D would be neutralized to being a pylon. Even with a hurt AB, at least he had fouls to give. It bugged me quite a bit that not only did no one point that out, no one understood it.
Then there was the Kleiza, Weems bit. If anyone thinks Weems is a better defender than Kleiza (not to say Kleiza is a good or even competent defender) I’d say, you need to watch Weems with greater care.
In other random notes:
Is Brandon Roy starting to crack? He’s had to apologize to his team for his recent rants on Andre Miller.
How much has Ron Artest grown up (or healed mentally)? He’s come a long way since the Detroit debacle. Here’s proving a city can forgive a player (you reading this Lebron?).
“A coward, I was a coward,‘’ Artest said before Wednesday night’s game between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Pacers. “When you do coward stuff, you feel like a coward. I don’t care if it was done intentionally or by mistake, you’re still a coward. I don’t care how young I was. That’s not an excuse…”
“There’s no question those (mental-health issues) played a role,‘’ Artest said. "I just wasn’t mentally strong enough to deal with adversity, deal with things not going my way, not strong enough to not throw an elbow (on Richard Hamilton) when (Game 6 of the 2003-04 Eastern Conference finals) was tied,’’ he said quietly.
What Artest wants is for kids, troubled kids, to have the same access to necessary therapy he has been blessed to receive. "It’s cost me $75,000 to fix my problems,’’ he said with a laugh. "How many people have 75 grand? I want more therapists and counselors in the schools.
I’m liking Amare more just because he HATES KG so much, and spanked him
Great post Ustation
And good on Artest for his comments, obvious commitment to bettering himself and for being a role model for those who struggle with mental health issues. Very encouraging.
Last night's game
I missed this one thanks to Christmas festivities, but obviously Howland has a different take on Andrea than some of our other HQ writers, myself included.
However I think that the result would have been the same had Andrea played – but I guess we’ll have to wait for the rematch to know for sure.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
When is the rematch? Noah is out 6-10 weeks. If he is not in the line up, that makes a big difference.
by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 16, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think the result...
would have been much different either. All I was saying was it’s tough to poo-poo on the loss when they were missing three starters. They should have lost the game by 30. With Bargs I still think they would have lost. As mentioned the Bulls are in a different category.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Dec 16, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
No where near the competition
The Raptors, Nets, 76ers, Pistons, Cavs, Washington, and maybe Bobcats are clearly the bottom feeders of the Eastern Conference. With the prospects of New York acquiring Carmelo Anthony it removes any outside chance of the Raptors winning a division title (a la Blue Jays – Red Sox and Yankees predicament).
I cannot foresee any success in the Raptors future until they are able to trade Andrea and start in a new direction. I don’t have a problem with Andrea, but the Raptors just don’t have the personnel to overcompensate for the lost rebounds when Andrea is on the outside shooting. As Franchise mentioned, Andrea would be an asset coming off the bench, but what are the chances of that happening? The only solution that I have is try to acquire a proven shooting guard or small forward for Andrea. Dumb and Dumber or Frick and Frack (DeMar and Sonny) are just lousy. I’m not sure what their role is on the team. Both players should NEVER start on any team in the league.
Sonny – I cannot defend his game anymore. Of all players on the team he should be the most driven because he is playing for a contract. Instead, he is playing his way out of the NBA.
DeMar – I concur with most criticisms of him. He just is not playing with any energy or intensity. For God’s sake, get angry. Andrea has a laid back persona, but DeMar’s demeanor is just plain uninterested. He is playing as if his career is winding down.
An admission
When I read comments here on players performance on defense it occurs to me that I am some what limited in my ability to spot bad defense. I watched Weems a few times just to see if I could spot where he is so bad on D and I was really finding that he was moving and making an effort to be in position and didn;t seem to be getting beat any more than any one else. I think my problem is that I don’t think anyone is capable of stopping opponents at will.
I think some of you have a much keener eye for the details that I am obviously missing.
I classify it into two groups.. on ball and off ball. Weems is bad on ball, but worse off ball.
Here’s a hint.. when you see a guy dunk on Andrea, check who the original on ball cover was. Because Andrea is also a bad off ball defender, it’s made even worse because when he doesn’t cover weak side well, but in his defense, even though you can’t hear it, you can see that the cover didn’t call it out loud. How can you tell? When the guy gets dunked on, he glares at his team mate. That usually means the cover didn’t communicate.
You see a lot of glaring from AB at Weems, but even more so with Evans. He’d give Weems the death stare. That’s the biggest sign to me that things weren’t right.
NOTHING is worse than getting posterized because your small was late with the call, and you end up looking bad. I’ve seen a locker room fight between two team mates because it happened twice in one game.
The Bigs also have the obligation to be somewhat aware of what is going on.
See my post below in response to your post above. They are the ones accountable for rotating and calling out the cutters, screens etc. Watch Bargnani on defense. He floats, is disengaged and seldom communicates. His poor rebounding is also symptomatic of his floating and disengagement. When the the shot goess up (on O or D) Bargnani watches the ball, his oponent is already getting into position and boxing him out.
No, he actually does a good job of boxing out. It seems you have made up your mind about what Andrea does and refuse to let reality sway your opinion.
LOL, convinvcing argument argument - "yes he does, your stupid"
So if he’s boxing out so well, why is he historically one of the worst rebounding centres in the history of the NBA? How can you argue this? How do you reconcile that!?!? And don’t give me a “he boxes out so his teammates can grab the rebounds”. That’s nonsense. His teamates, (Amir, Doresey, Davis, Evans) actually WORK for their rebounds.
Actually, for the most part, Bargnani is horrible about boxing out, which is why his man often grabs offensive rebounds. Bargnani tends to watch when the ball goes up, so a good offensive rebounder will get around him before Bargnani realizes it.
Before you call someone stupid, I suggest you make sure you know for sure what you are talking about. And I suggest you watch Bargnani closely one game. You might be surprised to discover your assertion is, in fact, incorrect.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
That’s a good observation because I figure that as a player in the league you gotta do one thing really well. Shooting, passing, rebounding, stealing, or defending. I see with Sonny and DeMar that they don’t have a strong suit. I would argue that Antoine Wright may have lacked offensive skills, but he did compete on defense.
In this case its also about a simple thing.. communicating.
I don’t blame smalls for getting beat, but if they don’t communicate I encourage Bigs to get on their case. There’s no excuse for not calling for help as soon as you’re half a step beat.
With young guys, sometimes its ego, they think they can get back into the play, or get a block from behind. With others, it’s just between the ears.
It takes three steps to go from foul line to lay up. If you call it on step two, you’re too late and your big gets dunked on. It needs to be right when your opponent gets passed your back hip (not even half a step).
Agree on the "on ball off ball" breakdown
One additional comment. Maybe Weems is doing a poor job of communicating, but Bargnani’s week off ball defense is magnified because he is a “big” or the centre. The bigs HAVE to be good off ball defenders for your team to be successful, like it or lump it. It is just the way the game of basketball breaks down. Bigs are by definition help defenders as they are predominantly the ones who rotate and have the physical stature to protect the basket. These are things Bargnani just doesn’t do.
Watch Weems fail to go over (or even under) screens. Compound that with the fact that there is very little in the way of shot blocking / basket protection, and you have a recipe for easy scores by the opposing team.
There’s a reason why opponents can shoot 50-60% from the field vs. the Raptors and easily win the battle in the paint.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 16, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
+1.
I posted a while back asking, what’s one of the two biggest thing JT changed this year in the defense? He’s asked all players to fight through the screen, go over and not switch. Sometimes, it’s just too easy to switch and players get lazy (re: last year). BTW, going under is also not allowed by JT this year. You go over, force the guy to penetrate and like football “supposedly” allow for secondary coverage, while cover rotates to the guy the secondary leaves. (From what I see.. doesn’t always happen though)
So if you seem a player get bumped, going under or calling for the switch or fails to rotate if the player penetrates, you know that wasn’t part of “the plan”.
Weems, gets bumped off by the pick waaaaaaaaaaaay too easily. Not only that, it doesn’t look like he fights hard to go over.
I’d even settle for Weems going under. Take the other night vs. Charlotte as a prime example: At least if he went UNDER the Augustin screen, he would’ve had another shot at slowing Gerald Wallace on his way to the bucket.
But I give credit to Triano for getting rid of the constant switching that was happening last season. Having to watch Jose Calderon getting caught on a switch and attempting to defend a guy like Kevin Garnett down low was painful. #thanksfornothingiavaroni
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 16, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
You mean kind of like how he got stuck defending Amare twice in the NY game...
Had to resort to just slapping him and running away…
Agree on your assessment of the scheme.
However, to often that first rotation or secondary coverage from the big is late or non-existant.
You will have all kinds of success
With Andrea where he should be, at the 4 behind a big strong defensive center. (ie Perkins etc)
What is so hard to understand about this?
I cannot believe how many people think that because “Bargnani is now gonna play PF instead of center this means he’s gonna have smaller guys defending him”
POSITION ONLY COUNTS ON DEFENSE…
I REPEAT, POSITION ONLY COUNTS ON DEFENSE!
This discussion has been had time and time again… so I’ll quote myself…
The position you play Bargnani at only refers to who he is going to defend…
Triano has no control over who defends Bargnani so you can’t say "We should play Bargnani at PF on offence because he would dominate other PF’s"
The fact is, the opposing coach can play a PG on him if he chooses, but in most cases is likely to have his Center pick up the assignment…
You can only call Bargs a Center or Power Forward etc. etc. in regards to who you intend him to defend… and he is much better off defending Centers man-to-man than mobile 4’s…
His offense is going to have to come against whoever the opposing coach chooses to defend him…
Now if we got a legit bruiser of a Center who demended the opposing team put their Center on him, THEN you can begin to dictate which position Bargs plays on offense… but we don’t have a strong force at Center to be able to do that…
by Mikthaniel on Dec 10, 2010 9:49 AM PST
Now don’t get me wrong, raptball you nailed it…
behind a big strong defensive center. (ie Perkins etc)
But this for for all the other posters who are gonna chirp in with opinions as to how Bargs is magically gonna destroy scoring records once he gets put at the 4 spot…
Have to agree.
And the first part of your post reminded me of this.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 16, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s the issue, though.
If you define your players (for now) by their size – i.e. Bargs is the biggest guy, he is the centre – you can see how you can force certain matchups.
If Bargnani is playing alongside Linas Kleiza, Bargnani is the C. But this is NOT just because you have him guard the opposing C. It is also because the opposing C cannot guard Kleiza, and is FORCED to guard Bargs.
Similarly, he often plays PF on offense (ie. is guarded by the opposition’s PF) because the opponent can afford to guard players like Amir or Reggie with their C.
Having a full-time large C to play alongside Bargs would ‘force’ the opposition to use their C on ours, and Bargs would play against the opposing PF.
Of course, this doesn’t change the fact that Bargs is BETTER suited to score against C’s.
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
two things
“Having a full-time large C to play alongside Bargs would ‘force’ the opposition to use their C on ours, and Bargs would play against the opposing PF.”
just if the C is somewhat a scoring threat, but usually that is the case
“Of course, this doesn’t change the fact that Bargs is BETTER suited to score against C’s.”
not necessarily, he can post up very well against PF as they are normally lighter and smaller (see, for example Studamair, another PF playing C) . sometimes it IS up tot the team mates to feed him the ball when he posts up (and also up to him to post closer to the bucket against them).
Thank you for repeating exactly what I said...
Having a full-time large C to play alongside Bargs would ‘force’ the opposition to use their C on ours, and Bargs would play against the opposing PF.
Now if we got a legit bruiser of a Center who demended the opposing team put their Center on him, THEN you can begin to dictate which position Bargs plays on offense… but we don’t have a strong force at Center to be able to do that…
Sorry, you contradicting your own post confused me.
POSITION ONLY COUNTS ON DEFENSE…
I REPEAT, POSITION ONLY COUNTS ON DEFENSE!
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps you can explain the contradiction...
I said the position a coach chooses to play a player at applies to defense only.
The coach doesn’t get to decide who his player plays against on offense.
The team (and hence the coach) can influence the opposing coaches decision based on the other players he puts on the floor.
It is still the other coaches decision as to whether or not he uses his PG, SG, SF, PF or C to defend him.
We could put 5 guards on the court together at the same time, that doesn’t mean the other team is going to do so as well… they might, but you have no control over whether they counter with playing 5 PF/C in response…
So I suggest you either read the whole post before you critique it or call Bargnani a PG on the scoresheet while letting Barbosa bring the ball up the court, you know cause then Bargs automatically gets to post up the other team’s PG every game…
Andrea struggles more when he’s defended by smaller moblie guys.
This is so true, but would not be if he would consistantly post up these types of players. He has shown that he can do it very well when he chooses to do it.
by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 16, 2010 11:21 AM EST reply actions
And when he receives the ball when he does…
by dhackett1565 on Dec 16, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
That’s part of it, but there have been games when he has not chosen to establish post position against players that he should be eating alive.
by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 16, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I hear a lot of “buck passing” by Bargnani in the post-game interviews as well. Like his teammates are supposed to magically get the ball to him in the post when he makes little to no effort to establish himself by posting up and calling for the ball.
In a lot of ways, it’s like a child making excuses while the parents (Triangelo) let him get away with the behaviour.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 16, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of buck passing on D as well.
I love the “just play him at four because he can’t play centre argument”. My response to this is, “why, so you can have a bad defender at the 4 spot”? Or "God forbid we ask Bargnani to give a crap and start rebounding and defending. Why are we forcing a square peg in a round hole? You can’t be successful with a starting frontline that includes Bargnani.
You play AB vs an opponent at the perimeter, because our perimeter plays already arn’t preventing penetration. And as you stated, AB isn’t much of a help defender, so why not have Davis and AJ as your help D? Davis is already an above average help D.
AB takes away the perimeter shot with his length, and he’s not getting posted.
That’s why I’d do it.
There’s a great example posted somewhere below of how Amare blew by Bargnani on the perimeter and dunked before Bargs could even turn his head. Perfect example of what we would be treated to on a nightly basis with Bargnani trying to guard more mobile 4s. Bargnani has neither the lateral quickness, instincts or desire/inclination to guard a player who is more perimeter orientated.
You only hear what you want to hear. The fact you always have to demean the guy goes to show who the child is here.
The fact that you cannot forge an argument to debate and can only name call goes to show who the child really is.
siggian
Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one. There’s lots of big 4s out there – sure you’re not thinking 3s.
Yes
The 4 position has guys who are generally more mobile than the guys at the 5 position. There are exceptions, of course.
I wasn’t talking about height either. Opposing height doesn’t seem to bother Bargs (as it shouldn’t as Bargs is a good height himself) but playing against a mobile opponent gives him problems.
I remember one baseline move Amare put on Bargs...
He was facing him, hop stepped baseline and went up for an easy dunk and Bargs head was barely turned to watch by the time Amare was at the rim… he looked like Jose trying to stay in front of D. Rose the first time we played the Bulls this year…
All I want for Christmas:
IsAndreaBargnaniToGrabaRebound! LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHQMn5NlQCM&feature=player_embedded
That is what I meant to reply amazing to.
by JumpShootersRUS on Dec 16, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
All I want
.
Thanks MAS11 …. Great little video – Brings a little fun (and smile) to all the pain we’ll experience this year (being a young team and all). And she’s cute. ;-)
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 16, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Ya man, gotta laugh sometimes : )
Plus some pretty good digs at the rest of the Toronto sports landscape.
Now that's Mas murder
Why would you be so mean in this Christmas season.
Aw man... I'm not the Grynch I swear... I just posted it, didn't creat it.
Now I know how Julian Assange must feel : )
youngest starting unit ever
against a legit contender. Short 3 starters (2 bigs), Amir in foul trouble. Playing one of the best defenses in the league. 2 allstars, noah and Deng (quality talent) and a deep bench.
and thats a good enough to say… see ‘I told you so’ about Andrea? Come on now. Lets string atleast a handful of games together against a variety of talent before that can be a conclusion
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 16, 2010 4:27 PM EST reply actions
this game would have been lost by a lot greater margin if bargs would have played regular minutes…
by untouchable_21 on Dec 16, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
wow...
now that is a bold statement.. how can spout that off like you’re absolutely certain. You don’t know how many points he could’ve had, you don’t know how the bulls offence would’ve changed, you don’t know what passes or shots would find their marks, and you don’t know what injuries or lucky/unlucky bounces and breaks would’ve happened, if Bargs played regular minutes. What about the effect on Amir’s minutes and his fouls? cmon now… let’s think this through..
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Raptors HQ
Related FanShots on Raptors HQ
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- C-a-C: This is probably as close to LeBron James working with John Waters as we’ll ever get
- Dwyane Wade’s hot pink pants: The kind of thing you can get away with when you drop 41
- Lamar Odom to New York? Dwight Howard on the move? For now, it’s all talk
