Toronto Raptors Quarter Report
Has the 2010 NBA season been a successful one for the Toronto Raptors to date? Franchise takes a look at this question from a few different angles...
Last year, at the 24 game mark, the Toronto Raptors had 10 wins and 14 losses.
It was an underwhelming start, but five straight wins during the week of December 18th got the club back on track, and a dominant January saw the Dinos look record-wise like a playoff team.
Of course we know how the whole thing played out in the end, but it's interesting therefore to note then this year that the Raps, currently with a 9 and 15 record, are only a game behind last year's pace going into tomorrow night's match against the Bobcats.
This is without Chris Bosh and Hedo Turkoglu, and with one of the younger teams in the league, a team that from game-to-game still seems to be trying to indoctrinate various new faces.
Would you then say that this season has been a success to date?
It's an interesting question, and one that Bryan Colangelo and management will likely be pondering from here on out.
From a talent perspective, it's hard not to say that this season has indeed been a win.
With the exception of a loss or two, the club plays hard every night and has won some games that on paper, it had no business winning. The mere fact that its record this season is virtually the same as last echoes this point, although one could argue that last year's schedule was tougher to start.
Many picked the Raps to sit at the very bottom of the East but at present, they're hovering around the Eastern Conference's final playoff spot.
That's one way of looking at things, and it's admittedly a short-term view.
From a future perspective, I also understand how someone could say this season has been a worst-case scenario.
Not bad enough to fall into the very bottom of the NBA basement, and yet not good enough to challenge for a meaningful playoff spot, this season could end up being similar to the 2008-09 version of the team, the 33 win group that was just enough of pain to grab upset wins, but not bad enough for a top lottery spot. That lottery spot may be a moot point should a lock-out occur, but in any event, at present ESPN.com's John Hollinger has the Raptors slotted for 35 wins on the season, a number which likely puts them just out of playoff reach.
To me though, this season was never about playoffs or a certain number of wins.
No, this one was about advancing in the right direction, both from an individual and team perspective.
Has this occurred?
At just over the season's quarter mark, I'm not sure we can say yet.
From an overall view, the team's defence is again atrocious. It's 25th in points allowed, 27th in defensive efficiency, and generally near the league bottom in all other categories that reflect strength in D.
And last year's high-powered offense hasn't been nearly as good.
13th in the league in offensive efficiency is a solid mark, but the club is in the bottom five in 3 point shooting and after years of being one of the best free-throw shooting clubs in the league, has fallen to 16th overall in that metric.
In my books, this doesn't look like a step forward by any means.
And on an individual basis, things aren't much clearer.
Sonny Weems and DeMar DeRozan look pretty much like the same players they were last year, exhibiting flashes of improvement for a game or two, but the big leaps many were expecting just haven't happened.
Jose Calderon has bounced back a bit, but one can hardly say he's returned to his former dominant self either, and the same could be said for newer acquisitions like Leandro Barbosa and Linas Kleiza; inconsistency has been the name of the game in fact for nearly the entire team.
The brightest spot in my books has been up front where Amir Johnson has taken a big step forward, especially on offense, and Reggie Evans prior to injury re-established himself as one of the league's premier rebounders. Ed Davis and Joey Dorsey have shown some nice upside in limited minutes too, and as a result, Toronto has actually been one of the best in various rebounding metrics, something unheard of in the post Oakley and JYD days.
The other bright spot to me has been Andrea Bargnani.
Bargs hasn't statistically advanced much, but considering my fairly low expectations for him this season he's been a pleasant surprise in my books, especially on offence where with each game he looks more and more confident in his own scoring abilities. He's added a few new dimensions to his O-game which is great to see, and when that part is humming along, he truly is one of the league's tougher match-ups for opponents.
However in my opinion, Andrea's value to the team this year is more of a testament to the club's lack of talent than Bargs' becoming a legit All-Star candidate. He's head and shoulders above his teammates as the top offensive option for sure, but let me ask you something:
Couldn't Al Harrington have essentially the same impact on this team if he and Andrea switched places?
Hmmm...
In fact I was awaiting Toronto's match-up with Denver this season with baited breath in order to compare these two players. In the off-season I did a statistical analysis of Bargnani vs Channing Frye, but later on I got thinking that a much better compare is Mr. Harrington, a similar offensive juggernaut when given minutes, and one of the league's tougher covers, especially in his prime.
Sure, Andrea has the upside but look at how similar these two have been in their careers to date:
14.1 points per game, 5.8 rebounds, 1.8 assists.
45 per cent shooting from the field, 36 per cent shooting from long range, 73 per cent shooting from the free throw line with 3.3 free throw attempts per match.
Those would be the career averages of one Al Harrington.
14.2 points per game, 4.9 rebounds, 1.4 assists.
44 per cent shooting from the field, 37 per cent shooting from long range, 82 per cent shooting from the free throw line with 3.5 free throw attempts per match.
Those would be the career averages of one Andrea Bargnani.
I expect Andrea's scoring average obviously to keep climbing in the future, but I doubt many of those other metrics change that much.
Again, this is not a tirade against Bargnani here, the point I'm simply trying to make is that Andrea is what he is; a supremely talented offensive player but one that doesn't contribute enough in other areas consistently at this point to be able to carry the weight himself. We saw this with Bosh and regardless of how you feel about CB4 vs. Andrea etc, etc, the bottom line is Bosh wasn't a big enough individual difference maker in terms of wins, and ultimately that's how Andrea will and should be judged too. He needs help, and as the season goes on we'll see if he can start getting that help, especially from Toronto's supposed "young ones."
Should he get it, then suddenly this might be a very interesting version of the Dinos, one that already this year has been infinitely more entertaining because of their up-and-down style and increased athleticism.
Should the team continue to stumble along though, winning somewhere in that 30 game range, then again as Raptors' fans we'll in all probability be looking again at a murky off-season, a somewhat daunting prospect...
....lock-out or no lock-out...
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tough
The second and third options applied for me. I expected more from certain players but the team overall is about where I expected them to be.
I’d have to say the same thing, although that was pre-season. After the home opener I expected about 15 wins so in that sense, the team is crushing my later expectations.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Dec 13, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I picked the fourth option because I thought the team would be a 25-game winner and they are currently on course for ~35 wins. That said, I am with siggian in being disappointed in certain players(Kleiza, Weems from time to time, DeRozan). Although, I am pleasantly surprised by Bayless, Barbosa, Evans and occasionally by Ed. The rest of the roster is playing roughly how I would expecte them to(Bargnani, Calderon, Amir). Overall, a mixed bag, but one that is winning more often than I thought they would.
I like how this team is what everyone “expected”. If it was just according to the comments at the beginning of the season, I swore this team was destined for a 12 game win season.
Remember the whole over under discussion? When announced in July it was going to be around 28, how many took over? My wagering team was questioned (not just from around here) when we emphatically took the over pegging them for about 33-36 wins (Why I bet $1k on the Raps). I will admit though, we also factored in that BC would have made a major trade by the end of December.
Is it wrong I’ve already blown my winnings? ;)
I will be the first to admit
this team is playing WAY better than I expected and I did take the under. I am now saving my pennies to way out.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Dec 13, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing when I saw the results
what happened to all the people who though this was the worst team in the league or east? This team is playing to those low expectations up to this point?
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 13, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I expected the team to get above 30 wins ...
… I just didn’t expect them to come until later in the year as guys developed and gelled…
They are definitely surpassing my expectations for the rate at which they are progressing as a team…
Some individuals not so much, Demar and Sonny specifically, but as a team well ahead of schedule
In other random notes:
You know its bad… real bad, when your owner starts to heckle you. “Why are you even in the game?”, “You’re Fat”, “What’s with the shot?”. Don Sterling to Baron Davis.
Is the east ready for Melo? I don’t get New Yorkers. Even though it’s a quick train ride out to New Jersey, it might as well be on a different planet. From Brooklyn, 20 mins on the A Train to Pen Station, and 20 minute train ride out to the stadium. Anyways.. Amare and Melo might make an upset? Looking at you Miami.
8th straight 30 plus games?!?! WTF. I thought he “couldn’t play without Nash”?
Thank you Eric Gordon for saving my week! Picked you up as a free agent two years ago, and you’ve been on my fantasy team since. Traded Tyreke Evans 3 weeks ago for Paul Pierce.. facing that team this week. :))))
Christmas with the Kardashians? Lamar to Kris Humphries on Twitter “Good Luck!”.
Where is Andrea Bargnani today??
Let’s compare him to the standard at C, Dwight Howard.
Howard 25, 6yrs NBA, $16.7mil this year, 35min, 2.1blk, 12.6rbs, 21.5ppg Orl 41.7rpg.
Howard has been the defensive player of the year, Andrea will never aspire to that.
Andrea 25, 4yrs NBA, $8.5mil this year, 35mins, .7blk, 5.5rbs, 21.3ppg, Raps 41.7rpg
note: Andrea while not giving RBS a priority with Evans dominating, since Reggie out has avg 7.5rbs, and his game is still evolving both on offense, and defense, and team RBS are the same.
Both players have 9 sub 20pt games to date.
Andrea is starting his 2nd season as the full time starting C, and his first as the MAN who is counted on to lead the offense and score every game. The Raptors have not won a game when he did not score at least 20pts except 1 when he scored 18 pts. The next closest scorers on the team average 10/12 ppg. He is the KEY to team success, and just as important to Toronto as Howard is to Orlando.
Just to be clear
you are saying they are equally as important and not equal in talent right?
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Dec 13, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure that's exactly what he said...
He is the KEY to team success, and just as important to Toronto as Howard is to Orlando.
I think I noted though in a previous comment Johnn that I think we put too much weight on his scoring – his scoring average in losses isn’t that much different than in wins. I think the real difference is his efficiency in wins and losses, and his overall game. FTA’s, rebounds, percentages – all of these are markedly better in wins.
Also, that line of thought would intimate that Mike James was as important to his team as Dwight Howard…not sure that’s really saying much on a macro level.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Dec 13, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
"I think the real difference is ...... his overall game"
thats exactly what it is. When he puts in the effort on D and on the boards (and this doesn’t even mean actually getting the blocks or rebounds or steals, but rather making the other teams life more difficult to score and rebound) this team is so much more successful.
Like I said after the Detroit game, he was excellent in the 4th quarter.. even though he didn’t rack up defensive stats. And as well as others played on the Raps, his motivation, play on D and rebounding was a difference maker.
However when he plays ‘classic bargs’…
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 13, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Agree about Bargnani’s efficiency and “overall game” being more important than his outright scoring numbers. Imagine you are Kleiza, Weems, whoever and you see Bargnani out their busting his butt and hustling. Now, I am not saying Andrea is much of a leader, but when you see your team’s primary scorer/golden boy hustling then that has to have a motivating effect. So in that sense, when Bargnani is scoring efficiency and putting out a good effort (results of not) in other areas that has to have a big effect on the Raptors success.
I'll take that argument
That bargnani is as important to his team as Dwight Howard and respond by saying: That is why the Magic will again challenge for 60 wins and the Raptors won’t, even in the BEST case secenario win more than 35.
If you think a 60-win team could be built around Bargnani… wow…
That Magic team is built around Howard. I think that’s the point. No one in the supporting cast is considered more talented than Howard.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 13, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Point taken and agreed with...
Just saying you can’’t straight up compare the Magic to the Raptors without comparing the rest of the guys…
It is after all a TEAM sport, where all the guys help determine the results…
The percentage of games the Magic win may very well plummet by the same percentage the Raptors’ would if you removed those two guys…
Making them equally as important, you may only win 5-10 less games with Bargnani gone and 20-30 games less with Howard gone, true.
But in relation to how big of a difference is to the overall loss by each team, that works out to about an equal percentage…
An average player is just as valuable to a shyte team as an All Star is to a contender, equality in importance to the team, not equal to each other…
No Andrea would not be as important to the Magic as he is to the Raps…
No the Magic would not be a contender if they were built around Andrea…
That wasn’t the point being made…
in the spirit of the joke
your fellow idol Chris Bosh, before Andrea came along managed to win 25, and you wanted to give him the max….
Slightly exceeding expectations, so far...
Raptors are on pace for a 30-31 win season right now. And the funny thing is, I actually believe there’s enough talent on the bench to have squeezed out a couple of additional wins given the right lineup decisions.
If the over/under for wins was 27.5, I felt pretty strongly that this team would finish under. It remains to be seen what will happen over the rest of the season, but it certainly looks like they will hit the over. And a trade or two could have them in the mix for an 8th playoff seed.
I’ve been impressed with the rebounding of guys like Amir Johnson, Reggie Evans, Ed Davis and Joey Dorsey in the frontcourt. I think there are some good pieces in the backcourt as well with Jose Calderon, Jerryd Bayless and Leandro Barbosa. The fast breaking has been fun to watch.
On the downside, the wings have been brutal… especially lately. The Kleiza signing looks like something Colangelo will have to ‘reverse’ by February. And the Bargnani love borders on irrational at times. I mean, Franchise nailed it with the Al Harrington comparison (despite the fact that I actually believe Bargnani is more talented than Harrington at this point).
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 13, 2010 11:04 AM EST reply actions
Random Trade Thought
Reggie Evans for Kendrick Perkins, yes?
I'd do that in a heartbeat
Which makes me think Boston wouldn’t do it in a million years. They’d be downgrading from a starting caliber C to a backup caliber PF. Perk is a great rebounder too, so I don’t see how this makes any sense for Boston.
by IWillPartyHard on Dec 13, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
and if Boston is willing to part with Perkins that easily… I would be real worried about his knee. (big dudes with leg issues rarely end well)
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 13, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
guy can dream can’t he? ironically, I tried it on ESPN trade machine, it worked and hollinger’s analysis gave several more wins to Boston out of the deal. (maybe that accounts for Perkins not playing yet this year?)
by benjibopper on Dec 13, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Careful what you post...
you may end up with twenty or thirty posts in multiple forums getting your balls busted because you wanted to chat about your team…
The audacity of people talking about aspirations and such…
The Raptors are a better team than most give them credit for. Their roster is one of the deepest in the league with two players in each position capable of starting. I disagree that Amir Johnson is the brightest spot on the team. I would say Jose Calderson as he is starting to return to the form that he was in 2 or three years back.
by Jeffrey Thompson on Dec 13, 2010 12:01 PM EST reply actions
I commend you on your bravery...
Both in disagreeing with the common annointation of Amir as the beacon in the dark and in not turning your comment into a discussion about Andrea… SH*T, there now I DID IT…
Oh well, regardless, I agree that Jose returning to form is one of the BEST things for the Raptors to hope for… for two reasons…
We play better when Jose is on his game as he has good chemistry and communication with most of the guys on the team…
And it means his trade value is returning to the point where we might convince some other GM that he has an All-Star buried within and we may get some valuable building pieces for the future…
My biggest thing I want from the PG position is good defense and low turnovers…
You don’t need an All-Star PG if you’ve got a great team… ask Derek Fisher…
You can have an All-Star PG and have a gong show of a squad, hey Steve Nash? How’s your title hunt?
For me, the PG spot is really the LEAST important position to need a star player… just gimme a good defender with a high B-Ball IQ…
good point. I’d expand by saying that PG and C are the positions you most need good defenders, and SG, SF and PF is where you most need offensive players. And the Raps are kinda backwards from a winning team in that sense.
by benjibopper on Dec 13, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
NBA is a pg league.
LA plays the triangle so you an get away with Fischer. Bulls in their heyday were the same.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that 3 of the top 4 team in the East have the best point guards in the conference (Rondo, Nelson and Rose). While Miaimi runs it’s offence through LeBron and Wade.
In the West 6 of the top 7 teams have premier pg’s (Parker, Kidd, Westbrook, DWill and CP3) with LA the only exception.
Totally agree about the Centre point.
Shaq and Duncan are the only two bigs I can think of who were the central focus of championship teams.
by raptor rabid on Dec 13, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Shaq and Duncan are the only two bigs I can think of who were the central focus of championship teams*.
In the last ten years.
by raptor rabid on Dec 13, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Lakers, Boston, Miami, Spurs, Bulls, Rockets, Bulls.. Okay maybe the 89-90 Pistons.., Showtime Lakers, Bird’s Celtics, okay the 1979 Seattle Sonics with Gus Williams and Paul Silas..
How many championships have Kidd, Nash, CP, Deron Williams, Baron Davis (in his hey day), Devin Harris won?
@ustation Not sure what your first comment meant
How many championships has Howard, Yao, Amare, J. O’Neal and Bogut have?
by raptor rabid on Dec 13, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Howard I'll give you as an appropriate response...
Yao – Injuries ruined his career…
Amare – Only just reaching “elite” status so we’ll see…
J. O’Neal – ?!? – Really?… come on, really?…
Bogut – Equivalent to Bill Wennington really, not “elite”, so give him Jordan and Pippen and I’d say he gets a few rings…
Now, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwan, Shaq, Duncan all modern day examples that prove our point…
… Jermaine O’Neal… shaking my head
Come on man
He was an elite player in his day.
by raptor rabid on Dec 13, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
But an elite dominate BIG will also win:
As you mentioned Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem, Robinson, Chamberlin, Bill Russell, Bill Walton, Moses Malone, Perish & McHale, Sabonis, even Wallace for that one year.
I totally agree with you that it used to be a big man's league.
With the recent rule changes as you say SG/SF were dominant.
I think the current crop of point guards with a more aggressive shoot first mentality are more dominant than ever.
by raptor rabid on Dec 13, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
More dominate yes.. but championship winners? I’d argue no.
I’ve been arguing the “elite” PGs will never win a championship (Kidd, Nash, CP, Deron, Rose, Wall) or won’t in the next 5 years.
I have a very difficult time agreeing to Rondo as being elite, as he couldn’t make a 9-12 foot jumper regularly if he was required to.
Well
I saw Wellington play in Italy and I believe Bogut is " just a bit" better…
Ah see... I was watching a tall white dude watching Jordan cut up the opposition...
… you’re watching a round mound of expertly cooked meat get cut up by a chef… I can see where we have a different opinion on how good it was…
Love me some beef wellington…
I agree with Mik (see I can do it!) :)
I just want my PG to bring the ball over the 8 half court and drop it off to someone, run in transition, and play D. Hopefully occasionally shoot the three to stretch out the D.
PG
Different strokes for different folks.
I just think your pg is your best ball handler and passer on most teams. What not have the ball in his hands the most.
by raptor rabid on Dec 13, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Since 1980 only 3 real PGs have been Playoff MVP: Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, and Isiah Thomas.
Pre 2004, – Michael Jordan, it’s been all big-men minus Billups.
Post 2004 its: Wade, Pierce, Kobe.
1990-04: Hakeem with 2 MVPs, Duncan with 3, Shaq with 3.
Jordan: 6.
In the 80s: It was Magic, Bird, Kareem and Moses Malone.
Magic played all 5 positions, so what do you call him? There’s been no-one else like him.
I think Lebron reminds me of Magic.
Bigger more powerful, maybe not the same IQ.
by raptor rabid on Dec 13, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
The last time a team had a PG as their leading scorer you’d have to go back to Isiah Thomas, which proves that the PG being a primary pass-first type is the way to go in the modern NBA. I guess you can say Billups took big shots (back then) but he had Rip Hamilton and Sheed with him and same goes for Parker, who had Manu and Duncan around him. It’s hard to win without a great scoring swingman which makes it difficult for teams like Chicago/Utah/New Orleans to ever get to the finals.
NBA Champions and their PGs:
Laker: Fisher and Shannon Brown
Celts: Rondo and Cassel (and remember, this also wasn’t the same Rondo we know today)
Spurs: Parker & Vaughn
Heat: Jason Williams (?!?) and an old old Gary Payton
Piston: Billups & Hunter
Spurs: Parker and Speedy Claxton (?!?!)
Lakers: Fisher and Brian Shaw
I’d say aside from that one performance from Parker, no PG on that list is “dominate”
the PG to win a championship thing is a myth.
hold on here
Fisher was already talked about… triangle offense, shaq and kobe (who brought up the ball) he has always been good. Not dominate, but an asset for every team. Is there a more obvious team leader in the NBA?
Rondo has been the best player on the Celtics for 4 years now (this year being the 4th). Everyone talk about the big three, but he was crucial to that team in their championship year, and in the playoffs. He has been one of the best PG in the NBA, just completely overlooked again and again. Yeah he doesn’t have a jump shot… and he has created a game where he doesn’t need it and still helps the teams offense (and I think his D is clearly top notch)
Parker has been an excellent PG since he started in this league. Regularily close to a 5.
Jason Williams.. Wade and Shaq. Wade was the ballhandler, Williams just needed to play D and not screw up
Billups… Mr Big shot. Leader, shot maker. Excellent player for years.
There are a slew of excellent/dominate pgs in this league (and have been for years). Others are assets in other ways
All this discussion proves is that you can win with an outstanding PG, and without. Its all about the make up of the TEAM. This goes for any position.
You need to rebound and defend. You need to be able to rely on more than one individual on offense. You need guys to be scrappy night in and night out. You need everyone willing to sacrifice in someway (whether its their body, their play time, their scoring etc). You need someone who can score when the game is on the line.
How good your PG or C or SG etc are in comparison to the rest of league, is meaningless in and of itself.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 13, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
I never
disagreed….
its just some of those PGs are elite/dominate… some aren’t.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Dec 13, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Stevie
You can have an All-Star PG and have a gong show of a squad, hey Steve Nash? How’s your title hunt?
Nash was one " i ota " away from the finals.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 13, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
7th or 8th seed
Raps have a great chance to get some momentum and get a playoff spot. To me, this would be a great goal for the team for several reasons.
1. winning is contagious
2. it will give our team confidence down the road
3. if there’s a lockout, a top lottery pick may be waisted anyways
4. because we are young, deep and athletic, we can benefit from some more experience in tough situations
5. did I mention that winning is contagious?
Plus the East is just so bad from 7-15 and I’m not sold on NY either. They’ve had the 2nd easiest schedule so far (including beat the Raps three times)… I don’t think they’ll finish with more than 42 or 43 wins, still good for 6 or 7 in the East.
If Raps can repeat last year’s season they’ll have a great chance of sneaking in the 8th spot. Bargs has just got to keep being an efficient scorer and if the wings can step up, it’s definitely possible.
I will say that Amir has proven his doubters wrong. He has a more polished game than we give him credit for. I thought he was just a transition player. He kinda reminds of a young Rasheed Wallace.
by Jeffrey Thompson on Dec 13, 2010 2:14 PM EST reply actions
I can't believe...
… how easy he makes tip ins look…
The man has the softest hands I’ve ever seen…
I would have way more faith in tossing the ball near the rim and having him tip it in while facing the wrong basket than shooting an open mid-range jumper…
The man just makes it look so easy…
Dermar
I hate all of these negative comments on Demar Derozan, come on guys he’s 21 years old, he’s gunna make mistakes…
I don’t think anyone expected or expects much winning out of this group. I have been impressed by their young guns and the constant desire for improvement from Derozan, Weems and Johnson.
I measiure their real success by the move they made for Bayless. This guy has he present skills of Jack but is young! Getting some much needed cap relief from Peja could turn out to be key as well.




























