Raptors Rapid Recap - Toronto 127 - Washington 108
by Adam Francis on Dec 1, 2010 10:31 PM EST
in Raptors Rapid Recap - 2010/11
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-The Raps got some revenge for an ugly recent loss to the Wizards by crushing them tonight, 127 to 108. Toronto started strong and kept the pedal to the metal in this one shooting 58% from the field, and had seven players in double figures. The Wiz barely put up a fight and John Wall, who played, and Gilbert Arenas combined for some beautiful 6 of 21 shooting.
-Where do we start this one. How about with Ed Davis. In his Raptors' debut he hardly looked the part of a rook who missed a chunk of the season, putting in 11 points and 6 rebounds with 2 blocks in only 24 minutes. He looked as smooth and athletic as advertised too, and his presence could be felt when he stepped on the floor.
-Davis wasn't the only one banging in the paint though as Toronto as a whole outrebounded Washington 50 to 32 with Andrea Bargnani, Joey Dorsey, Demar DeRozan and Jerryd Bayless each pulling in 6 or more boards. Sonny Weems had five of his own, and he and DeRozan busted out of their recent slump to torch the Wizards for 38 points on 14 of 23 shooting.
-Washington just didn't really look like they wanted to play this game and really, JaVale McGee was the only Wizard who Toronto had a hard time containing. He finished with 21 points and 7 boards but got very little help from his teammates.
-Next up for Toronto is a tough match Friday against the OKC Thunder. The Thunder may be without Kevin Durant, but Russell Westbrook has been torching clubs this season and the Raps will no doubt have their hands full.
-Finally, some Reggie Evans news. Reggie had surgery today and will be out for what looks like 8 weeks. Tough blow for Reggie, but with the way Dorsey and Davis played tonight, this could be a blessing in disguise as many have intimated.
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Hard to find any faults
with tonights performance. Perhaps we should of beat them by 40? Boy the Wizards looked off!
Should be a fast paced game against the Thunder.
Promising debut from Davis. We might have a good one!
Almost 40 points from Weems and DeRozan.
Bayless and Barbosa is a formidable backcourt.
Like how Jay will sit Bargnani early when he’s got his head up his ass. He seems to respond well.
Great effort
.
Keys to Rap Success
- Raps need either Weems or DeRozan to have a good game going. Getting a combined 38 points (some garbage I know) is a bonus.
- Jay “resting” Andrea at the beginning – if I recall, that’s at least the 2nd time Jay has done that, and it’s worked well. Bargs’ offensive game gave the Raps an insurmountable lead. 18 & 8 in only 26 minutes … works for me.
- Bayless is one feisty little guy, and pretty decent on the defensive end. With some mentoring from Jose, he could develop a true PG mentality.
- Ed Davis – I can see him being our starting 4 in the near future. Amir is better as the 1st big off the Bench. Facing Starters is still a chore for him. Despite what some people think about his contract 5 yr $30 million – only 5 mil this year, and the final year not fully guaranteed, I’m okay with it.
- A healthy Barbosa is a perfect tonic.
- Need more from Kleiza
- Joey is just simply a bonus – great game from him. Glad that Dampier BS didn’t pan out.
.
mentoring from Jose lmao
Jose gonna be coming off the bench next year or sooner , i’d like what i seen from jose but he’s still not a starter in the NBA , no team will trade for this guy
Good game for the Raptors, but still there garbage , Andrea Bargnani is still not a replacement of bosh, we got lucky tonight but that will end soon, Jerryd Bayless needs to start for anything good to happen for this team or have more min than Jose , he’s does the same things like Jack but he has better ball handling skills, until Jose can take the ball to the rim to open the zone, he should be bench or come off it
by Real raptors fan on Dec 2, 2010 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
totally disagree
u guys are over hyping Bayless; the kids is playing well against 2nd tier opposition and in tonight’s case he played awesome after the game was decided and Washington was waving the white flag. Fans do this same very thing over and over and over and over again and when they end up with Jose Calderon at 9mil per yr for example we complain bitterly.
Bayless’ start potential is being judged from a very small sample size and that’s how we ended up with JC at this price tag. We’re making the same mistake all over again.
A lot of players can do well in 15-20 mins of action against the other team’s bench but no way am i convinced Bayless is better for this 2010.11 team. I can see Bayless starting by 2011.12 or 2012.13 but the kid had a couple of 1.2 decent outings and all of a sudden he is a starter>> u gotta be kidding me
JC has his weaknesses laike any and every other PG but he’s a pure PG and a pretty good 1 on his good days; Bayless will be better eventually but he could def learn from JC in order to maximize his development.
Uhm isnt that reason enough to start him now? If we truly want to see whether he is made of the right stuff then putting him up against stiffer competition may go a long way in answering those questions. Its not like making the playoffs is the goal this year. Throw the kid out there once in awhile and see what he can do. At least he wont be a pylon on d.
Liking Barbosa-Bayless chemistry
I like the way these two guys play together and I would keep them paired up coming off the bench. Bayless is getting plenty of opportunity to learn and grow right now and he has a backcourt partner who, surprisingly to me, seems to complement his game. For me, status quo is the way to go for next while.
i said will become a starter
Jose Calderon is Garbage am sorry , IF u dont go to the Rim or attempt to go as a PG then your garbage , your not a Nash, Paul, Rose, Rondo , Williams, Rose, Bullups , westbrock the list goes on , this is not Europe People its the NBa and Grown Man must not be afraid of contact
by Real raptors fan on Dec 3, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
And you call yourself a “real raptors fan”. “They like umm stink and we lucky and Andrea suck and……” How about we enjoy our young team going out and competing on most nights!
cause am real not fake like u
Jose has to get alot better for him to be a real PG of the team , he’s not even a starter , he’s getting better but not to be in the future of this team,
I ask u this question who will trade for this guy in the NBA ?
NOBODY and there’s 36 teams in the NBA , hes’ at the bottom of the list of PG and the guy is young , why can’t he go the the rim to open the zone , Cause he’s afraid of contact ,
Jose had the best three throw record in the NBA and Ray Allen was second, Why is that, because he never went to the rim and hardly got fouled , thats garbage to me , i dont blame him that bunch more than BC for given him all that money to stay ,when he should have been gone along time ago, And alley opp dont give u a championship
by Real raptors fan on Dec 3, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
For someone who claims to know a lot about the NBA, you don’t seem to realize that the NBA has 30 teams, not 36.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Hey fake raptors fan, I had a very difficult time reading your post. I am still trying to figure out what you are talking about. Where exactly did the Jose debate begin between you and I? I don’t remember mentioning Jose in my post. By the way, Bargs is going to be an all star this year while Bosh watches from the stands :)
by Assistant GM on Dec 5, 2010 2:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
A TEAM WIN
The most impressive numbers 28 assists from 8 different players and 52 rebounds from 10 different players with a mim of 3 each. Reggie out for 8 weeks min, with this kind of effort, no problem.
The high’s and lows of youth, 78 pts 40% vs Atlanta, and 127 pts 58% vs Washington 1 game and 3 days later.
by Johnn19 on Dec 2, 2010 12:18 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
nice recap
if only we could play like this every night we’d be a great team to watch win or lose. Truely enjoyed tonight’s game, that’s basketball :).
+1
I really hope that kid stays healthy.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 2, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
This just in ....
.
If Miami beats Cleveland …. Raps are in the Play-offs.
.
Well, if the playoffs started Friday. Of course, there are 4 more months to play.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Your spoiling the moment
.
The more I think about play-offs, the more I believe a successful year for the Raptors, means play-offs. And if that means Boston, then so be it.
In fact, Boston would be an ideal opponent. They’d kick all these young guns & Bargnani’s asses. Then the next time the guys make it to the 2nd season, they’ll have a little more anger to vent. And not just have that “happy to be here” kind of look.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Dec 2, 2010 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
However nice it would be for the Raptors to make the playoffs, without a top draft pick, the Raptors would continue to swim in mediocrity. More than playoff experience, they need more top level talent if they ever want to be a contender. They’re not going to get that by barely making the playoffs.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Yes, let’s miss out on the next Blake Griffen, John Wall, Durant, Tyreke Evans, etc. etc. etc. so we can watch Bargnani get imasculated by Garnett for four straight games. Sounds like a solid plan for the future.
Really?
How can you cheer for a team that you want to lose. The Raptors don’t have that a super star, but they have depth up and down the roster. 9 guys 25 or under. Why would you ask these guys to lose lots of games. It takes away from the team concept, players don’t believe in each other, and the whole team falls apart at the seams. Then you get a top 5 pick, per say, and you blow up the team again and start all over? Or you could let your young guys play, give them the confidence that any night they can win. They start to beleive in each other, learn to win together, and most importantly, build chemistry together. I know that off court chemistry can be important, but it’s on the court where it counts.
I don’t think losing just for a CHANCE of a top pick seems like good business for your players, the fans or the coaching staff. I would rather watch these young guys play there butts off and try to win every night. That’s how you build play off teams, not by tanking and hoping for the best.
And good players can be had in the middle and end of first round. And sometimes, in the second round. Granger was 17th, David lee 30th and Ellis 40th overall in 05. Rondo went 21st and Millsap 47th in 06. Aaron Brooks 26th and Landry 31st in 07. They don’t need a top 3 pick to succeed. They just need to actually keep some of their draft picks, and develop them into keepers or commodities.
With the talent on this roster, they can get by without having a super star, if, and only if, they come out to play every night. And that is what is so refreshing about this team. They have played with more heart than i can remember in a long time, and these guys want to play here. If they played hard every night and lost 60, i would still rather watch this team oppose to last year. But something tells me they won’t lose anywhere close to that number.
Oh, yeah. Go Raptors!!!
Do I WANT the Raptors to lose? No. I watch every game and I love watching them win. Do I truly believe it is best for the team in the long run if they do lose? Yes, absolutely.
They have a nice young team with some pretty good talent. What they don’t have is any elite talent and you need elite talent if you want to be anything more than a mediocre team. If all you want the team to be able to do is compete, then that’s fine. But to be a real contender, the team needs to upgrade their talent. I’m not happy with simply competing.
And yes, you can get talent outside of the top 15, but it’s incredibly difficult to find elite talent outside of the top 15. It’s hard enough to get elite talent in the top 10. The farther you draft, the less chance you have of finding someone. You might as well buy a lottery ticket.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
As if I needed another reason to cheer for Cleveland tonight. Thanks!
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 2, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think I could have asked for a better first game from Davis. He was everything I was hoping for. When he and Amir were on the floor together, the Raptors didn’t let much happen in the paint. I’d like to see those two play a lot more together.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Let’s just hold off on the Ed Davis parade though. He’ll get scouted, he’ll get tired, he’ll get knocked down a few times, let’s see if he gets back up. Agreed, you have to like the first impression.
by axl t on Dec 2, 2010 7:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
What I liked best about Davis was his IQ on the court, and scouting isn’t going to change that. He’ll surely have his ups and downs, but he knows what to do on the court and has the physical tools to be able to do them.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Basically anytime AB was not on the floor the interior d improves dramatically. This is my biggest reason for starting Bayless over Calderon, you cant have a pylon at PG when you have Center who is not a good help defender. If this team is to have any success moving forward, then bring one of them off the bench.
Agreed
I love that the raps are keeping most games competitive. However, I have no interest in squeaking into the playoffs at the 8th spot, only to get swept out in the first round, resulting in a double digit draft pick. That has been the plot for the last few seasons (I’m aware we missed the playoffs last season, don’t nitpick) and I’m tired of it.
Crap!
This reply was meant for your previous comment. Apparently I haven’t consumed enough cafein this morning.
Totally agree. The Raps need to decide whether they want to have the pylon at point guard and let Amir Johnson and Ed Davis protect the paint OR do they want to slow down the penetration and not expose Bargnani as much. You’re never going to completely eliminate guards getting by their man and into the paint because of the lack of hand checking, etc. (witness Derrick Rose busting up Tyreke Evans)
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 2, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Wins don’t matter this year. Even Colangelo stated that. What’s more important is the development of the young players, and while starting Bayless might be a nice idea, he still isn’t a true PG and guys like DeRozan, Weems etc, need a true PG to be able to get them the ball. Calderon isn’t the long term option. That’s obviously true, but he’s the best PG for this team right now, whether or not he helps the team defensively in the short term.
Bayless will get his 20 mpg learning how to run an offense without the pressure of playing against the elite PGs most of the time. I think that’s best for HIS development.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Plus, there is absolutely no way you can trade Calderon if he is not starting. If he starts and plays well, a team might gamble that he could help them at point guard (if their own goes down with an injury or they feel that they have the right team to mask his deficiencies on defense while needing his precision and care on offense).
Sorry, I didn’t mean to frame that comment as a “Jerryd Bayless should start” argument. I actually wrote that with “the Raptors need to acquire a starter to play ahead of Calderon” mindset. I should’ve developed that comment a little further. Totally agree with you — I think Bayless’ role will be replacing Barbosa once he’s dealt.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 2, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
D-Stance...
What is your opinion on Rubio…
He seems to be a guy that would mesh in our mosaic of players, but do you think he’s a legitimate number one PG?
I dunno. I mean, I like the flashy PGs as much as anyone — but, as you know, I like to subscribe to the advanced stats as well. And I keep hearing about Rubio’s numbers not being that impressive (even when you adjust for the difference between the NBA and the European leagues).
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 2, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
All right...
So, given one Fantasy trade (in the sense that it works technically but probably wouldn’t be accepted), and that our current roster stays healthy (Reggie healthy as well) what lineup (limit it to a 10 man rotation) would you like to see starting next season… (therefore including a draft pick)…
I like: (assuming Derozan and Weems continue to improve)
Kyrie Irving / Jerryd Bayless
Demar Derozan / Leandro Barbosa
Sonny Weems / Linus Kleiza
Ed Davis / Amir Johnson
Al Jefferson / Andrea Bargnani
For me it was a coin flip between Al Horford and Al Jefferson (Pau Gasol was my first choice followed by Dwight Howard but I want to maintain a certain level of plausibility)
My biggest reservations at the moment completely hang on where Sonny and Demar are gonna level off at… If they can feed off each other and really prove to be a dynamic duo, AWESOME… if not I would work one in with Kleiza or Reggie (or all three) to try to get a Star replacement…
You completely lost me at Al Jefferson. Jefferson is possibly the best post scorer in the league, and a good rebounder, but he’s at a similar level as Bargnani defensively. I’d rather see them go after guys like Marc Gasol or even Gortat at the center position. Guys who aren’t going to be liabilities. I’m sick of those types of players.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
I didn't think ANYBODY was as bad as Bargs defensively...
nudge, nudge
Bueller? … Bueller? …
I get what you’re saying about Gasol and Gortat being more even spread talents… I just think about building a bit of “Showtime” to maybe create an atmosphere where real superstars feel okay sticking around…
Give me Hakeem in his hay day over any other center ever to play the game, had offense and defense, and was FUN to watch…
If we had a Lebron to carry a Big Z that would be one thing, but I think we need a stand alone talent… I loved Rasho, but we need a showcase talent not a background extra…
But seriously, make a Ten man Rotation, maybe someone comes up with a brilliant, overlooked idea…
Showtime atmosphere doesn’t make players stick around, Winning makes players stick around. If you want to win, you need good defense.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
p.s. I've been pushing a Gortat deal on these guys for weeks now...
It’s one that I think is actually feasible…
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29z9htv
Wright isn’t getting to play much anyway and we still have pieces to maneuver for next year…
This could be a reality, easy...
too bad about Reggie’s foot but maybe even so, in time for the Magic to make a playoff run…
We end up with:
Calderon / Bayless
Derozan / Barbosa
Weems / Kleiza
Davis / Johnson
Gortat / Bargnani
It’s a good start…
Not so much...
With Howard’s lousy foul shooting the Magic don’t exactly need another bricklayer for their frontcourt and with their deep rotation it is unlikely Wright helps them much either.
The only reason the Magic would do this is for a salary dump, and I don’t think they’re that desperate to unload Gortat. Plus, I’m willing to bet they’re already getting much better offers than that from other teams.
The only deal I think would be feasible for both teams (and realistic) would be deal involving Barbosa, as long as he’s healthy. The problem is that Orlando would need a backup center in return, since Gortat is their only one.
Tim W.
The Picket Fence
Still thrilled
Loved tonight’s game — watched every minute. Blowout wins are going to be rare this season (this is our second, by my count), so to watch our Raptors out there having fun and winning is a treat. Sure, we all love the nailbiters when they go our way. But give me blowout wins and I’m happy happy happy.
That first half was very impressive. Some nights everyone’s shot is falling and the game looks very easy. Between Jose, Weems, Andrea, even Derozan hitting a desparation 3 . . . the shots were going in. I remember plenty of nights where our opponents haven’t been able to miss, and it’s frustrating as hell. So I feel for Wizards fans, but wooohoooo I hope we get more just like that.
Let’s be patient with EdD. He’s going to have his nights where he looks like a rookie., He certainly has some physical tools to make it in this league and he learned under one of the best at UNC. I’m not ready to retire his jersey yet, but I think he has a chance to be a quality starting 4 in 2012-13, if not late next season.
Finally, if our frontcourt of the future includes EdD and Andrea, I hope our wings learn to TCB on the defensive boards. And that EdD bulks up a bit.
Nice game Raptors
There is definitely something to be said for winning the games your are supposed to win. The Wizards were poor last night and the Raps made them pay for that. Good going team.
I liked the same things as everyone else: Weems/DeRozan snapped out of their slumps, Davis looked smooth and savvy beyond his years, Bargnani woke up after his early hook, Bayless and Barbosa were good again off the bench, etc.
One more guy that deserves some props for last night is Triano. He takes plenty of grief around here, but he should get some credit when it’s deserved. He made the right call pulling Bargnani. His gameplan of driving to the hoop against the Wizards lackadaisical guards and undermanned front court worked to a T. He got all the young guys into the game including Dorsey and Wright, who sometimes get overlooked and he kept the team focused enough that they didn’t give back the lead(as they have done in the past). He may not be Phil Jackson or Larry Brown, but for one night at least Triano and his staff got everything right.
PG Defense
The defense on the point guard is an interesting topic. Calderon has been the brunt of critizism for a quite a while for not being able to stay in front of an opposing point guard. On at least a couple of occasions last night, Bayless blew by Wall like he was standing still yet Wall already has the reputation as one of the fastest players in the league. I’ve seen guards blow by Jack, and I’ve seen Jack blow by Rondo and so on and so on.
So I question if it is possible to stay with the quality PGs when you are going backwards and they are going forward especially with assortment of crossover and spin moves that guards have today.
I have seen a marked improvement with Jose this year because he seems to have increased his stand back distance which gives him more reaction time but it allows jump shots and many of the PGs want to pentrate for a lay up or give an easy dish. Rondo for example does not want to shoot jumpers.
So when I see Gateway talking about Calderon as a pylon, I am reminded of all that discussion here last year. I had thought he had escaped that rap but it may be back.
I have liked Bayless since his draft year, and I believe he will become very good. Certainly will be our starting guard soon.
So I question if it is possible to stay with the quality PGs when you are going backwards and they are going forward especially with assortment of crossover and spin moves that guards have today.
I don’t think you can. You can occasionally slow them down. That’s about it.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 2, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Although I don’t completely agree with everything in the book “Fooled by Randomness”, a point that stuck out to me was that stock traders who monitor their portfolio every minute live shorter lives, even if they are successful.
Lets just say his portfolio on average drops at the end of everyday 40% of the time, and gains 60%. How often he checks in on how he’s doing will affect his misconception of well he’s actually doing.
In general, whenever he has a losing day, the pain caused by losing money is roughly 2 times worse the enjoyment he receives when gaining money (not necessarily how “bad” he feels, but the combination of the length of time he feels it— i.e. when we feel pain, it lasts much longer, and when we feel euphoria, we may feel it more, but it lasts shorter).
So if he checks in every day, he’ll feel pain 2 days of the week, and have pleasure 3. But the 2 days of pain can skew perception because the pain lasts much longer. However if he were to check in once a month, all he would feel is just gains (however small) and no losses and be pretty good. Even more, if he only checked in once a year, he’s seeing huge gains.
Meanwhile with blackberries and tech, you can check in every minute if you’d like. Guess how much pain he feels on a daily basis?
In terms of fans of sporting teams now.. we’re now checking in if not on a daily basis, maybe minute to minute basis. We keep rehashing the same things over and over.
Back in my day, Leafs were on TV twice a week, and Jays were on twice a week if we were lucky. The sports pages in the papers were maybe 3 to 4 pages. I’d have to wait till sports magazines came out once a month to “check” in on how my team was really doing with thorough analysis (Sporting News, Elias, etc).
This day to day “checking” in skewing our true perception of how teams are really doing. For example, I made a prediction for the month of Oct/November to be 6-11. If I was to limit my time range at the beginning of the month I would have been told I was to optimistic and the reverse if I was limited to the end of the month I’d be told I was too pessimistic. At the end of the day…. to borrow from someone else. The Raps are who we thought they are.
+1 just for the Dennis Green reference alone. Nicely done.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 2, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
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