Tip-In: RaptorsHQ Talks to the Newest Raptors, Bayless and Stojakovic
The Toronto Raptors crushed the Philadelphia 76ers early and held on for their fourth straight win. More importantly...the HQ team got to talk to the two newest Raptors...
The Toronto Raptors have won four games in a row.
In fact, looking at the standings this morning, they're an incredible half a game back of a playoff spot.
The team may still be three games under .500 but has done exactly what many of us, myself included, didn't think this club could do; beat the teams on paper it was supposed to beat.
Last night's 106 to 90 win over the Philadelphia 76ers was the latest example and while the second half wasn't nearly as pretty as the first, Toronto got over the .500 mark at home with the W, pushing their ACC record to 4 and 3. The second half saw Philly outscore Toronto 47 to 44, but a dominant first half that had the Raps crushing the 76ers in nearly every way possible, made way for this victory. And this dominance was predicated by the Dinos' front-court.
At one point in my view from the ACC's Media Gondola, I remarked that Andrea Bargnani and Reggie Evans had the exact opposite stats; Bargs with 12 points and 2 rebounds, Evans' with 2 points and 12 boards. While together they may represent the most one-dimensional front-court in NBA history, last night they certainly got the job done.
Bargs was unstoppable in the first half scoring 15 points and torched every Philly defender in his path. He again finished the game as Toronto's high point man dropping 24 on the Sixers, shooting 50 per cent from the field, and got to the line 8 times as well, setting the tone early with his offensive aggression.
Evans was equally as dominant but not in terms of scoring.
Reggie outworked the entire 76ers team in the paint grabbing a career-high 22 rebounds when all was said and done. Add on his 12 points, 2 assists, 2 steals and a block and you'd have to give Evans the game ball in this one. DeMar DeRozan described Evans post-game in his talk with us as "a big scary dude who gets rebounds," but I think it was Evans' own take that bears posting:
"You have so many people who go out there and work so hard from 9 to 5 to make an honest living and buy a Raptors ticket...they want to come here and see somebody work just as hard as they do in the real world. A lot of times, they appreciate it more to see a guy go out there and bust his butt. That way they get their money's worth when they see the Raptors play."
Slightly refreshing to hear isn't it?
And with Evans and Bargs providing the 1-2 punch inside, there wasn't a ton more needed in this one, especially in the first half against a very porous Philly D.
Even the new guys got in on the act as Jerryd Bayless dropped in 13 backing up Jose Calderon and Peja Stojakovic had 7 points in only six minutes of action.
Both looked pretty comfortable all things considered and it will be interesting to see how Jay Triano uses them going forward. Talking to Bayless post-game, it certainly sounds like he's expected to run the show at the 1 behind Jose and get after it on D. Triano remarked that he was already impressed with Bayless' defence and while he thought Jerryd took the pedal off the defensive metal a bit in the second, he's excited to have such a competitor out there.
As for Peja, Triano noted that it was only one game, but that he may use Stojakovic in a "stretch 4" type role going forward, something I asked Peja about post-game:
RaptorsHQ: "When you talked to the coaching staff, did they talk to about the role they think you'll play on the team?"
Peja Stojakovic: "I don't really know that they're sure how they're going to use me, or how long I'm even going to be here."
RHQ: "What's your preference in terms of your role...and would you like to stick around?"
PS: "I don't think it's right from my standpoint to talk about it. It's different what players want and what coaches want but it's something that players can not control. We're professionals, we're obligated to do what's asked of us, and the organization is eventually going to make a decision. There's gonna be short term, long term goals; whatever's in best interest for them."
RHQ: "You played a lot of 4 tonight, do you prefer playing the 4, the 3..."
PS: "I've played all my life as a small forward so it is an adjustment for me..."
RHQ: "Looks like you created some nice mismatches though that you were taking advantage of..."
PS: "Overall it's an adjustment, not playing at your own position, just kinda playing in spurts and trying to get yourself going in a small period of time, it's a challenge."
RHQ: "How would you describe your experience in New Orleans overall?"
PS: "It was pretty good, I had a good time! I was there what, four years? Great support from the city, we had a few good runs, especially in 07-08 season and...it was obvious, especially in the last year of my contract, I expected something like that, that i was going to be moved, and it happened."
RHQ: "What about playing with Chris Paul? He's such a dynamic player, and you've played with some great players in the past obviously with Sacramento, talk about playing with him."
PS: "He's definitely one of the best, and one of the best point guards in the game today. He's really passionate about the game, very competitive, looking to involve his teammates, and I'm glad he's healthy now. He was a little down with his injury last year but he's back now and playing well and the whole team is playing well."
Interesting that Peja doesn't seem to be unpacking his bags any time soon so we'll see just how long he remains a member of the Toronto Raptors. Obviously he can still contribute at this level, but Bryan Colangelo may indeed have other uses for him and his contract in the next little while.
Switching back to Bayless for a second, the newest member of our Raptors HQ team, Jayne Erickson, had a chance to chat with Jerryd pre-game. Jayne, one of the three finalists from The Score's first "Drafted" series will be working on various video projects with us this season and we're thrilled to have her on board. In fact we're hoping the following piece is the first in a series of "Jayne and Jerryd" "webisodes:"
Apologies for the sound quality, last minute security moved us into the hall to conduct the piece, but it's pretty evident that Bayless is extremely happy to be here in Toronto. He didn't want to insult any of his past teams or teammates, but even post game he made it pretty clear that he was thrilled to be in a system that was much more conducive to his natural abilities.
We'd be remiss however to end this without looking at a few things Toronto is going to have to work on for their next bunch of games, against much tougher opponents.
For starters, the team's offensive execution late in the game was horrid as guys like Barbosa and Bargnani settled for way too many contested jump shots and inefficient looks at the hoop. As well, the team got sloppy with the ball and against a club like Philly who loves to get out on the break, turnovers lead to easy hoops. A 20 point lead therefore was cut to only 10 before Toronto finally pulled away for good.
However had the first half lead not been so great, this one might have ended quite differently, and to that effect, I'm anxious to see what the club can do against some superior competition this weekend.
The other thing that stuck out to me as a concern was the play of DeMar DeRozan.
DD was pretty much invisible once again and while some of this yes, was due to lack of playing time and touches, he DeRozan wasn't that aggressive either when he got opportunities, and missed badly on a few jumpers.
I asked him about this post-game but he didn't seem to be concerned, and eventually the discussion changed to a quite humourous back and forth regarding new teammate Jerryd Bayless' acting career...
RaptorsHQ: "DeMar, how have you felt you've played in the past few games? It seems a bit like you're not quite as involved in the offence."
DeMar DeRozan: "Everybody's time will come, I'm not really too worried about it, we've got sixty-some more games to go; everything is gonna come along you know? That's what's so great about our team. Everybody don't have to put up 20 points. One night it could be this guy or this guy. Jerryd came in today and did a great job...any night it could be any one."
RHQ: "So it's not simply a matter of Triano looking at some other options and combinations on the court is it?"
DD: "Yeah, whoever gets into the flow, that's who we're going to go to. If it's me, if it's Sonny, whoever it may be."
RHQ: "Do you feel that you need to assert yourself more though on the court?"
DD: "Naah, I just have to pick and choose my spots and not force things."
Holly MacKenzie: "It feels like you've got a lot of weapons out there right now, a lot of speed; you, Sonny, Jerryd, Leandro..."
DD: "Oh yeah, at any given time you give it up, we run a fast break and anybody can get to the basket...we've got a lot of weapons...and nobody's saying nothing about Jerryd yet...because he's athletic, he can jump crazy - it's going to be fun once everybody gets sorter in our offence."
RHQ: "Obviously you and Jerryd have some history, talk about how you knew him pre-Raptors."
DD: "I knew him ever since high school, I remember playing against him in high school, playing against him at Arizona camp, and just seeing him develop. He was one of the top guards on the West Coast and so we always ran into each other."
RHQ: "Are you going to give him any grief for "Gunnin for That No. 1 Spot," the movie he was in?"
DD: "What movie, he was in a movie?"
RHQ: "Yeah, he was in a documentary."
DD: "What movie??"
RHQ: "He was playing with Beasley and a bunch of cats..."
DD: "I never seen that!!" (Laughs)
RHQ: You're gonna have to talk to him about that.
DD: "Yeah! I remember! It had Brandon Jennings in it? Yeah, I remember that!"
RHQ: "All those guys were in it..."
DD: "And the Rucker Park thing, yeah I remember that!"
RHQ: "Yep..."
DD: "Yeah, he should have won a Grammy for that!"
I think he meant Oscar, but an apt way to wrap this one up...
133 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Thanks! Yeah, it was funny because DD was pretty subdued through the first part of the chat but his eyes lit up when we got into talking about Bayless in “Gunnin’ For That No. 1 Spot.”
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 25, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
I would argue there arn’t really any teams the raps should win on paper. On paper brand and iggy would have them ranked higher.
It’s hilarious the toronto love for blue collar guys who can’t score (hockey and basketball). Evans now joins the j.y.d. Popeye club.
by Ustation on Nov 25, 2010 9:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions
The media crowd around Reggie in the locker room was crazy…you’d think he had a triple double so yes, Toronto loves its grunts.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 25, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Evans might be the most talented of all the blue collar guys the Raps have employed.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Bayless looked good last night...
We finally have a PG that can play D. The season just got interesting.
He does foul a bit too much but I think it’s like Amir – just trying so hard and not always thinking first.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 25, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
I was wrong about B & B
Yesterday, I predicted that Barbosa and Bayless wouldn’t be a good combination on the court together. Lo and behold there they were last night torching the Sixers in the second quarter and teaching me a lesson about jumping to conclusions. I am now officially jumping on board the Bayless/Barbosa bandwagon. Those two along with Johnson give the second unit some major speed and a good dose of aggressiveness on both offense and defense.
Yeah you’d think those two wouldn’t be great together because of their similar games but they were a nice complement last night.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 25, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Welcome aboard, if you look out your window to the left you'll see the frosty Toronto skyline...
… nearly set ablaze by rioting fans who, just last night, watched their hopes of a number one draft pick vanish as it became obvious the Raptors are destined to be Eastern Conference Champions…
Thanks for the coverage
Btw, thanks to the RHQ crew for all the great coverage of the trade and the new guys. Your new recruits look like they are going to bring some great extra coverage for those of us who enjoy what you do on the site.
No problem, great to have some help coming on board in the next while so I can sleep more than 4 hours a day ha ha!
Really hoping we can do this project with Jerryd too…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 25, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
and Calderon
played very well last night. He has really improved on the defensive side and ran the offense great as well.
Candyman can!
I just loved the last rebound Evans got. There wasn’t a Sixer within 30 feet of the ball and the first thing that the other Raptors did was look around for Evans so they could get out of his way. Not so much to let him have it, but more out an instinct of self preservation. They didn’t want to get run over by the crazed Candyman!
DeRozan
I agree that he seems to be in a bit of a dip right now, but I am not overly worried about him. The nice thing with DeRozan is that he seems to be a low maintenance guy who doesn’t obsess about numbers. My only concerns with him are that he keep his defensive intensity high and that he keep driving to the net in search of his 5+ FTs per game. Oh, and gradual improvement of his jumper would be ideal, too.
I am starting to think that DeRozan may evolve into more of an Anthony Parker-style glue guy than a big scoring star.
That’s my take on DD – solid overall player eventually, but not a go-to option for a club. Pietrus without the 3 point shot perhaps…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 25, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Enjoying the early ride
Rough spots are surely coming sooner or later, but this early season win streak has been fun.
+1
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 25, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I reserve judgment untill the next two games
I do not necessarily look for a W, instead I want to see how the team performs against a (good) team having an issue with them and against another team that used to abuse the raps from an athletic standpoint.
The symtoms of winning
What a difference winning makes. The knives are put away. Must be a disappointment for the “haters”. Not much motivation to even carve up Bargnani.
One loss will change all that though.
I still have issues with him but the last four-five games his good play has outweighed his bad.
He’s such a mercurial player though – D Stance and I were talking this morning about how he just shuts down when his offence isn’t going. In the first half, he was grabbing boards and being active, but in the latter stages of his game, once the shots stopped falling, so did the rest of his game.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 25, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
I would agree ...
His passion for playing definitely stems from his confidence on offense.
I would say Sonny Weems has displayed the same characteristic. Fired up when he’s torching guys and attacking the rim but bored and distracted when he hasn’t hit enough shots.
Maybe these two should go on a hunting trip with Reggie and discuss what really makes a man a man…
If you'r talking about Bargnani
What really makes a MAN is someone who can lead his team in scoring every night when it is imperative for TEAM success, as well as play improving post/help defense, block shots and also rebound, as needed.
After 15 games, 11 with 20+pts, 7 games with 25+pts, avg 27+pts in the 4 game Win streak in 36 minutes 27.2ppg, 5rbspg @ 56%FG
This is an emerging STAR, leading his position in scoring in the NBA, and only behind Dirk, Amare, Gasol, and Scola, as a scoring BIG. I hope, and expect Andrea to continue to grow in his ability as an NBA star, and franchise player.
If you have doubts about his continuing defensive improvement listen to PJC on the Fan590 interview a coach with 35 years in the game.
This is me talking about Bargnani...
He doesn’t provide help defense, but he is more than capable of defending his own man.
If his teammates didn’t need as much help with guys blowing by them this deficiency would be much less obvious…
I think if he spent all his time on the court with Bayless, Derozan, Wright, and Amir, you wouldn’t have much to comment on his lack of defense because those guys consistently keep their man in front of them…
by Mikthaniel on Nov 25, 2010 7:29 AM PST
But you have to admit he does excel on man to man D on his own guy…
Like I’ve had to remind others, a players usage is completely situational and that’s what coaches are for.
If the game is on the line and the guy with the hot hand on the other team is a tall Forward or Center, I put Bargs on him without a moment’s hesitation…
He is a very capable one on one defender…
He is also caught as a spectator too often…
You don’t use a shield to protect against infection and you don’t use antibiotics to ward off a sword…
Each are an effective defensive tool when used in the appropriate context however so credit should be given where it is due…
And yes, I also said he needs to learn to be a man when it comes to playing the same type of defense regardless of how his offense is doing…
Reggie’s “On-Switch” is the opening tip and his “Off-Switch” is the final buzzer, PERIOD…
Bargs could use a dose of the same attitude… the entire team could…
Did you really say Bargnani excels on man-to-man D on his own guy?! I think the better description is he’s passable defending his own man as opposed to the gong show that is his help defence.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
And also said by me, about Bargs... when DW19 commented that Bargs is currently useless in the NBA...
Okay first, what’s with the disrespect?
“If Bargnani is ever going to be a useful NBA player” – DW19
Really?
So I guess we should just waive him then huh?
He probably has nothing to do with the 5 games we have won so far…
What an ignorant thing to say…
Secondly, his usefulness at each position is situational…
Just like Barbosa being able to handle PG duties in a pinch is valuable, the fact that Bargnani can switch between the two positions depending on who is on the court with him and against him makes him special.
Slapping a permanent label on a player regardless of situation is inefficient and closed-minded…
I prefer to look at all the possibilities of using a player rather than trying to force him to conform to what position is listed under his name in the opening graphics on t.v.
But hey, I guess Phil Jackson is a basketball dunce because you know Gasol is listed as a Power Forward and he has stupidly been playing him as a Center… WHAT AN IDIOT THAT GUY IS…
by Mikthaniel on Nov 24, 2010 4:32 PM PST
Not to pick on you since you seem like a decent person, but I think the only thing that your quoted comments prove is that you have a strong emotional over-reaction to perceived criticism of Bargnani. I suppose your optimism provides a necessary balance to D-Stance’s pessimism.
My Bargnani pessimism revolves entirely around his usage. I continue to maintain that he is a 6th man on a good team who should not see the floor during crunch time. You need his offensive going to counteract the rest of his game. When his offence goes, he’s not giving the team anything down the stretch.
Bargs is doing a good job of giving the team offence in bursts.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Right, but he's on this team now...
So complaining about how he should be used on a different team seems a little pointless does it not?
I think he should be used as a 6th man on this team, actually.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Then I would guess you got your moniker from being constantly wrong...
… and having to constantly take a Defensive Stance behind your absurd comments…
So it’s absurd to bring a one-dimensional scorer off the bench in favour of starting more well-rounded players who can score and defend?
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
1. One-Dimensional Scorer? or One-dimensional Player?
Cause the guy can score from anywhere he wants so put some thought into your comments before you toss em out there…
2. You would recommend which available Center on this roster then as a reliable offensive talent with such impeccable defensive tendencies? I am truly curious to know which exemplary talent we’ve all been so foolishly overlooking…
Maybe Joey Dorsey just has to step out of Barg’s shadow?
Or is it Amir Johnson who is the poorly misused All-Star?
Seriously, where is this mythical Center who is our rock on defense and provides the scoring a starting line-up should bring to the court every night?
I would actually start Amir Johnson, but that’s just me. He’s only got the best +/- rating of any player on the Raptors.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Calderon / Derozan / Weems / Evans / Johnson?
Okay, so here is where the word ABSURD comes directly into play…
Firstly, you think Amir would really maintain the best +/- on the team when matched up against STARTERS?
Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Tim Duncan, Brad Miller, Shaq, Ilgauskas, Chandler… get in touch with reality man…
So when we are behind by thirty points at the half then we should ask Bargnani to come in and make up the difference (all in one quarter that is, because you would also bench him for the fourth quarter)…
Wow, that is some fine coaching you are offering up… Triano should keep you on speed dial or at least follow you on twitter…
But hey, you were right for once...
but that’s just me
You’re dead on there… you’re the ONLY one with that opinion…
Beidrins?
Lol…just messing with you.
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
by HQ Interloper on Nov 25, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
But in my defense...
I would rather see Bargnani / Biedrins than Evans / Bargnani matched up against:
Garnett / Shaq
Odom / Gasol (Gasol / Bynum)
Nowitzki / Chandler
Stoudemire / Turiaff
and when the other team has a Big Center / Small PF combo (Horford / Smith or Noah / Gibson ) then I go with Bargs and Johnson…
But like I said, I like to be adaptive to my situation and not try to force a bad situation…
What a miserable excuse of an opinion. It’s pointless debating anything with you because you’re unable to take off your “I HATE BARGNANI” hat. Suck it up, he’s been fantastic for the past 4 games. The boys at Raptors Republic had the balls to aknowledge it. When you say he should come off the bench on this team, wow, there goes your credibility.
He’s been fantastic offensively in bursts, as he has been for most of the season. He’s disappeared down the stretch against both Boston and Philly. When his offence goes cold, he’s not contributing much else.
My problem with it, is Triano seems reluctant to remove him from the lineup when he’s clearly gassed or unmotivated or whatever it is that goes on with Bargs. Sure, there have been the occasional offence/defence substitutions — but those are few and far between.
This isn’t hatred — this is stating what I’m watching on the floor.
I love how people think we’re debating removing mid-90s Michael Jordan from the floor in crunch time.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
I have a bigger issue with you thinking he should come off the bench. Did you not watch last night’s game? He absolutely tore shit up in the first quarter, and drew 3 quick fouls. Like it or not, his offensive game is evolving.
DS, Triano may very well see exactly what you are seeing. He might also be instructing Bargnani that it needs to change and be sending him out anyway in order for him to learn and improve.
Funny enough, given Bargnani’s performance this season, the best use for him would be to start games and play a lot in the first half. Then in the second half he becomes the sixth man. Kind of an unorthodox approach, I admit.
It’s an unorthodox approach, but he’s an unorthodox player.
They’ve already addressed part of the issues by pairing him with Reggie Evans. I think the next step is having him cool out on the bench during crunch time after he’s already dropped 20+. And then crunch time minutes become the carrot for “you have to play better defensively, etc”.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s the issue I have: If you go back and look at the 15 games they’ve played so far this season, the Raptors have been outscored in the first quarter in 11 of those games. Yes, Bargs tore it up in the first quarter — but last night was the exception, not the rule.
This team is prone to slow starts, so in order to remedy that I’m suggesting removing the guy with the worst +/- on the team, who clearly doesn’t defend. That’s all.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Do you have Bargnani’s first half vs. second half +/- numbers? I would curious to know what they are. Anecdotally, I expect him to have a worse +/- in the second half of games. Is that true?
I can’t find anything that breaks it down by quarter or by half. I mean, you would hope that while his shot is dropping, his +/- is a bit better?
Check out 82games.com for a whole bunch of Bargs-related data.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Then your issue really should be with Reggie and Sonny...
But you propose, that when we are already getting outscored in the first quarter, we should bench the guy who provides 80 % of the scoring we do have?
That’s the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard you say…
And that says a lot cause man, you’ve had some doozies…
He probably gives up 80% of the opposition’s points, but we don’t count that…
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
HA!
That’s complete BS and you know it…
Name me one game where the opposing Center was the other teams leading scorer…
If you can name ONE I’ll be impressed…
You’re so full of it man…
Can we count when opposing guards finish at the rim uncontested?
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
He hasn't disappared in the game with Boston
he had double + Triple teamed, that is the best you can ask to a player,, take away 3 players from the other team, it should have been up to the other 4 raps to make easy baskets.
as a counter example
I believe Andrea would start for Orlando and Miami (current roster, irrespective of salaries) ….
I also believe he is the most important player on the Raps team because his 23 ppg come at 8.5 M$, I also believe Miami would gladly give you Bosh, his max salary and his 15/6 and get Andrea and the possibility to sign some other players.
Fair enough evaluation...
I just hate in general when people talk in absolutes and don’t give credit where it’s due…
It just so happens that the Bargs Bashing is the most recurring around these parts.
When someone says any player, is useless, or to be literal “Is ever going to be a useful NBA player” it shows a complete lack of respect for the hard work that person has put into getting where he is today.
I would say that the Raptors have found Bargnani to be a very useful NBA player as he still has a starting roster spot…
If any seven-footer with no talent could do what he does, there would be a helluva lot more NBA players so obviously he did something special to get him where he is…
It’s the lack of respect for somebody, ANYBODY, who puts in the work and dedication that we all reap the benefits of as fans that really pisses me off…
How would you like it if Bargs listened to all the bullshit spewed about him and pulled a Vince Carter or Hedo Turkoglu and pulled his pud on the bench all game?
He at least has the character to continue to do the best he knows how to do…
Yes, he has things he needs to work on…
But calling a guy useless is a completely ignorant comment…
And ignorance bugs the hell outta me, yea
Bargnani
Bargnani may score alot of points but this is negated because of his nonexistent help-defense and sad rebounding…. i think plus/minus actually means something here, miky
by untouchable_21 on Nov 25, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
And if you want me to carve up Bargs...
I remember in the second half, Bayless ripping a rebound down, with Bargs standing but 2 feet away. I can see an argument that he plays on the outside so it’s tough to rebound, but he was right next to the ball, and looked completely disinterested. He overall played a pretty good game but it seems that you like the drama.
The question is why is Bayless under the rim ripping down rebounds when there is a 7 footer already there, instead of leaking out for a fast break? Jesus
The answer is ...
For the same reason that Jose tried a 3-pointer from about five feet behind the arch…
Because sometimes in a game you find yourself in a position where you have to improvise and do things that normally aren’t asked for but fit the situation at the time…
No the answer is...
Is that every player on the court has to compensate for Barg’s lack of rebounding.
Which puts them out of position. Again, I can sympathize slightly when Bargs can’t rebound because he is shooting from the outside, but when he is under the basket, he should be just as hungry for rebounds as anyone else.
I didn’t even have a problem with the way he played, this whole thread started with someone fanning the flames about Bargs haters.
@ Mik – If you know so much, I would counter with sometimes in a game a 7 footer finds himself in a position to grab a rebound once and a while, but has a point guard playing in his first game pull it down right next to him…
Oh I agree...
have said it myself, watched it many a time…
It’s the fact that when he makes a hustle play, or gets a tap out in traffic (which in this game I saw at least three) which he doesn’t get marked down as a rebound, people don’t say nearly a peep…
When they do (credit HDave for recognizing it)
Wow
When’s the last time you saw Bargs hustle for a ball like that?
by HDave on Nov 24, 2010 4:57 PM PST reply actions
when it was covered in a very tasty marinara….
by Jenge on Nov 24, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
and the perfect balance of basil and oregano
by Jenge on Nov 24, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
+1
by HDave on Nov 24, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
HA!
Adam Francis – Publisher – RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ – Franchise on Nov 24, 2010
It gets turned into nothing but a joke and pushed aside…
Nobody furthers the discussion or gives him any credit…
Not interested in making it a conversation unless it’s a Roast…
Takes a brave type of person to jump on a bandwagon with a ton of momentum doesn’t it?
I root for the solitary little dude standing his ground in front of a row of tanks…
This is melodrama of the highest order. You think any player really cares what a few fans choose to joke about off in cyberspace?
Look, Bargnani is a work-in-progress. Trying to pass him off as the finished article is just as absurd as writing him off completely(which I am not doing, despite your repeated quoting of one isolated post). If you are not Bargnani’s agent or PR representative then I don’t know why you are getting so worked up over other people’s opinions.
I remember that play
In regards to this situation and this debate that’s been going on for years, all I can say is that there are far more one dimensional players in the league than there are well rounded ones. The dimension that Bargnani excels in happens to be scoring and some here seem see that as a detriment to his career. I just don’t get it. Monta Ellis can’t defend, Kevin Martin can’t defend. We revere Reggie Evans because he doggedly rebounds even though he can’t score, YET we’re all over Bargnani because of the opposite. It doesn’t make sense. Bargnani has a niche on this team and he’s fulfilling it to a tee right now. He clearly doesn’t understand the intricacies of rebounding, but as long as he shows some eeffort, I’m cool with it.
Nowizky can't defend a lick
he is however portrait like a great defender (over here) since he rebounds. Question would be, what is it harder to get, a consistent scorer (with good efficiency) or a consistent rebounder? I believe money talks, Evans for all his rebounds costs 5M, Rashard Lewis who scores less than Andrea and defends and rebounds just as well will make next year 19M. Now you are welcome to say Rashard is well over paid, but on your way to 8.5M (Andrea) how many Aldrige at 15 will you find?
Dirk
is a career 8.5 Rebounding average – 7.7 last year, 8.4 this year. He will also make 17.3 million this season …. just slightly above Andrea’s 8 mil.
.
By the way, AB is pulling in 1.3 Offensive rebounds per game (Dirk is at 1.1). Defensive rebounds are important, but ORb hold more sway with me.
As Bargs said (or Leo made up), first you have to box out the Opponent, then Reggie. Last night, Evans “stole” a defensive rebound from Weems (with only Rap players around), and you could almost see Sonny have that … wtf Reggie, you’re a little too close to my ass. :-)
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Nov 25, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I remember commenting that the next time Weems better not go near that ball or Reggie was gonna rip his arm off with it…
I’ve seen guaranteed once a game or more that Reggie has fought off his own teammates for rebounds, some of which resulted in turnovers to the other team… so I would say there are a lot of factors into why some guys get less rebounds… and into what makes up a guys value in TEAM REBOUNDING
a: I box out my guy so you can snare the board… no stat for that but it’s a plus
b: My guy is out at the three point line with me so you get the ball… no stat for that but that is a plus
c: I tap the ball out of a crowd to Jose for a new possession… doesn’t get recorded as my rebound
d: I shoot more efficiently than most of my team mates therefore giving less rebounding opportunities to the opposition… not a rebounding stat, but a plus for team rebounds
But hey you can’t quickly go on the internet and toss stats around to fit your propaganda in these categories so I guess D-Stance is gonna win the debate… unless you know, you are willing to look at the big picture outside of the Blinders of Barg Bashing…
Further to that
I remember commenting that the next time Weems better not go near that ball or Reggie was gonna rip his arm off with it…
That comment reminds me at times, of a concern I have for injuries (when watching those Raptor battles for DRb). At some point, it could impact a player – which wouldn’t be good. That said, I wouldn’t want Reggie to temper his energy and enthusiasm. Just maybe pay a little more attention to the team around him.
But hey you can’t quickly go on the internet and toss stats around to fit your propaganda in these categories so I guess D-Stance is gonna win the debate… unless you know, you are willing to look at the big picture outside of the Blinders of Barg Bashing…
D-Stance likes his stats, more than I do. His prerogative. One can show that Bargnani’s rebounding has declined, yet I can show that his ORb number has improved (even if it is slightly). And that’s with Reggie in the mix – the Rebounding stat killer for all others.
Suffice to say, AB will never be a Centre-centric rebounder. The concern (with Bosh gone), was whether Bargnani could step it up, and make up for CB’s rebounding. The irony is, Andrea’s total rebounding numbers are tracking lower, while the Raps have improved significantly in that department.
Raptors by the Numbers – 2010/11 vs (2009/10)
- Team ORb – 7th place vs (25th for 2009/11)
- Team Total Rebounds – 17th (vs. 24th)
- Opponents Rebounds – Raptors are 4th best in minimizing them (vs. 15th last season).
So why the continued focus on this facet of the game with Andrea? And why with Wages of Wins and other stat “Killers” giving emphasis on rebounding, do we not question the singularity of stats. You can slap Bargs for his effort – lackadaisal at times, and where Jay has gotten better countering it – but rebounding is more about the team, then it is about individuals. That’s the beauty of this Raptor version.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Nov 25, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
c: I tap the ball out of a crowd to Jose for a new possession… doesn’t get recorded as my rebound
Maybe I misunderstand, but doesn’t a tap like this count as a rebound?
He’s been getting better with this though, bit by bit. And if teams are going to over compensate to keep the ball out of his hands, then the rest of the team has to win it. That’s not shutting down, that’s strategy and team play.
Happens to kobe, happens to paul pierce, that’s why the top teams need multiple finisher type players. Nice to see last night, that happened, they got all up in Barg’s grill, did some really effective ball denial, but bargs kept working to get his shot going. Plus a huge block to disrupt the sixer’s momentum. He’s been awesome in this stretch.
It will be interesting to see the reaction when things turn south again… it’s a tough, tough schedule…
in the latter stages of his game, once the shots stopped falling, so did the rest of his game.
I might cut him some slack on that one. It’s been a historical flaw in his game, but I think he’s been improved in this respect this season. Last night his game fell off in the second half, but the Raptors also had a big lead. Many players in the NBA have trouble maintaining their intensity when they’re up by 20.
Don’t take that as an excuse – it’s still bad. I just think it’s a lesser sin to slack off because you have a big lead than it is to slack off because you’re not scoring.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Nov 25, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
?
Yes winning does make a difference. And no I’m sure the haters are not disappointed. I love how you ignore a plethora of statistics that say one thing, but as soon as a couple of wins come you go into “I told you so mode”. You sound like the hater. This post was irrelevant.
What are these Raptors ?
TEAM, TEAM, TEAM after 15 games, with 67 opportunities to go @ 6-9
Among 30 NBA teams
13th in Points scored
19th in Points Allowed
17th in Rebounds
Per the EXPERTS the worst collection of NBA players on one team of no-stars
And where is the 72 win, by the EXPERTS, Miami Heat @ 8-7 and losers of 3 in a row ?
The NBA where on any given night, there are no guarantees.
Miami Heat
There’s something oddly satisfying about watching the Miami Heat struggle.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I love it.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 25, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
there is also somethin to be said
about a player, well known around here, who is struggling out of his cocoon….
I hope it well serve as a warning to guys like Carmelo and Chris Paul, who think they can just sign on with the Knicks and create a counter to the Heat’s Big Three (or is it Big Two and a Half?).
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if I’d go that far… the lack of chemistry is a bit baffling… it’s almost like they thought it would be easier… unlike Boston’s big three, lakers also, who are working as hard as ever… they just seemed a little out of shape to start and too much one on five… hard to believe these guys won’t start clicking at some point…
I think the Heat turn it around as well. Just look at this.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Nice quote
Although they keep losing, based on scores of games, the Heat are still the league’s best team…
I am sure someone in NJ wished they had come up with that line last year :))
Haha. So true.
But on a serious note, I think metrics like that indicate that things might not be as bad as they seem in Miami. And chances are, Miami is going to embark on an extended period of good play.
If you look at the bottom of the rankings, you’ll find the usual suspects in Sacramento, Washington, Minnesota, etc. So it passes the smell test.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Not so sure I agree it completely passes the smell test. I mean, right now Miami is no where near being the best team in the NBA. They may have the best collection of individual stars in the NBA, but they certainly aren’t playing well right now.
I think what this ranking is showing is that when Miami wins, they are completely annihilating the opponent and putting up massive point differentials. When they are losing, they aren’t losing by as much.
Yes, Miami will get over 50 wins this year unless they get hammered by injuries. But I think that calling them the best “team” is completely wrong.
What I love most
is how everyone keeps talking about the Olympics…
And FORGETS that Wade was coming off the bench.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 25, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Dear Pnutz
" He overall played a pretty good game" Nice to hear the positive too. Thanks
For all the Jarret Jack lovers
New Orleans lost the first 2 games he played in after being 11-1
Raptors won the first 2 games Calderon started
Bayless made 3- 3pointers in 15 mins of his 1st game
Jack made 4- 3pointers in 13 games he started for Rap’s
I’m sure it’s all a big coincidence, the NBA where amazing happens
Just a quick point here.
If your team is overall a minus team (allows more points than it scores), then wouldn’t you expect your top minutes guy to be your team’s worst plus-minus guy?
I’m just saying, the plus-minus argument is flawed in many ways, and this is just another reason.
Bargnani & DS - Elimidate is not working with these two.
Did you really say Bargnani excels on man-to-man D on his own guy?! I think the better description is he’s passable defending his own man as opposed to the gong show that is his help defence. – Defensive Stance
While I think Andrea is pretty decent at man-to-man – excel is for Superstar status – I don’t think AB’s ability as a help defender is a “gong show” . If you ever watched that show, it would be the likes of POB who are the contestants, not Bargs.
Andrea’s help defense certainly needs improvement, but as PJ said (and yes, he’s a Coach hired by BC), AB’s help defense has shown improvement. We could debate that, but what’s the point.
.
What does matter, is a situation like last night against Philly. Andrea created the first 3 fouls. And he altered a number of shots throughout. Bargs kept the Offense going, when the likes of Demar & Sonny were off. He attracted a more focused defense in the 2nd half, sometimes double coverage, which allowed a greater freedom for others – opportunities that the younger guys have to take advantage of. Bargnani does need to fight through that added attention, but Amir, Demar & Weems need to step it up better. They’re young, so let’s give them time to adjust. The team hid a lull at one point, but as the 4th Quarter came to a close, the Raps completed their task – pick it up and win the damn game.
.
On another note, I think it was Leo who mentioned that the Raptors have 9 players – 25 years old or younger. That’s a young team. We’ll have some growing pains, and lapses that will have Rap fans pulling out their hair. But if the players & fans can roll through those “troughs”, we should be okay.
.
Yea, I adjusted my statement accordingly...
Granted, excel is too strong a word…
but saying he is terrible is just as much too strong in the other direction…
by Mikthaniel on Nov 25, 2010 9:58 AM PST
Reggie
I would hope that the Raptor organization finds a way to keep Reggie under contract for two more years. He has become both a vocal leader and a leader by example which is something which has a lot of value and cannot be expressed in stats.
His Rodmanlike performance have been real impressive.
I suspect that part of J Jack’s problem of late has been Reggies assendance to the leadership whereas JJ wanted to be that.
Yea I thought JJ was thinking he was having to carry the team offensively or something and was resenting that the guys he was playing with are developing…
Everybody loves to lead a prodigy… makes you look good and it’s easy…
That’s why Phil Jackson is so special, he can take less than stellar guys and help build them into champions…
Should Reggie stay?
I never would’ve said this before, but trading Evans as a simple Expiring contract may not be the right move. Unless of course, someone offers us a 1st round pick. lol
.
Without Reggie, Raptors have 12.5 million in a TPE, plus 25 million in movable contracts (if you count Barbosa). If you want to throw Reggie back into that fold, the total comes to 42.5 million. Wtf are we gonna get with all that money – a whole new team? lol
.
BC has so much flexibility, it’s scary. Hopefully he’s given an 3 or 4 year extension, and is told to play it slower …. That way, we all should be able to breathe a little easier.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Nov 25, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Without Reggie...
… the Raptors would completely expose Bargs on the glass. Apologist or hater, you know that’s true.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 25, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
No question...
the loss of Reggie wouldn’t ever be balanced by Bargs…or anybody else…
He may get one or two more boards a game but I would hazard to say maybe 4 or 5 guys get an extra one to two boards per game… but we definitely lose 5-6 possessions in his absence…
I think losing Bargnani would also expose the lack of consistent scoring from guys like Demar and oh I don’t know Reggie… or Sonny, or Amir, or Kleiza… oh but you don’t have a hate on for any of those guys so we’ll only talk about what makes one guy look bad in one aspect of the game…
Do you wear a special hood and carry a torch when you watch Raptor games?
Just askin…
3 in the key
Next opponent the Boston Celtics….it will be tough to get the 5 in a row in bean town but I see another big upset. Rando is still day to day so hopefully he will still be out. But confidence is a big thing in the NBA and the monkey is finally off the Raps back with the Celtics and prior to the win on sunday the last time we beat them was in Boston.
My 3 in the key…is Bargs and a lot of him. Peja more playing time = more 3 pt attempts and last but not least a everyone be a Reggie on the boards and we got that game covered.
Holy comments Batman
Maybe we should start rolling out a ton of posts with Jayne featured in them!
Or wait…keep making controversial Bargs comments ;)
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
I think I deserve my own Blog on this site...
Even if it’s just for the conversations I often hold with myself…
While I find myself siding with
Mikthaniel on the incredibly long discussion on Bargnani, I feel the need to tell him to take a walk, you’ve been on the computer all day.:)
I bet paid to sit on my computer all day...
LOL I just made $1000 while discussing D-Stance’s extreme devotion to Bargnani hate…
I totally commend the guy on sticking to his guns though, he is just as determined as he is wrong…
the trade & the heat
I too was a fan of the trade..by listening to a lot of the media or “so called experts” when it happened you would think the hornets won hands down..whoa whoa I never understood it I guess its just a lack of respect for the raps I guess but any person with common sense “looking at you cherly miller and Steve smith” I think the raps got the better of this deal short and long term..we got a younger, cheaper & better defender version of jack , with a 15 million dollar sharp shooter who comes off the books this year..no one can’t tell me a playoff bound team or someone else looking to shed cost won’t call BC about this guy. And as for the heat..wow when it rains it pours..losers of 3 straight, just not in sync at all, dwade is hurt and can’t seem to shoot his way out of paperbag now, bosh got hurt last night, its only a matter of time before we see Riley on the bench if this keeps up. And imagine if they don’t win it all this year or come close and there’s a lockout next season? It’ll eat the organization and the heat fans up for along time..gotta love it lol
by sherwin316 on Nov 25, 2010 6:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Raps over Heat
This might not happen very often, we were told it would never happen but right now, at this early point of the season, I would rather be a Raptor fan than a Heat fan. I know it’s early and I know they have a better record and their top three are better than anyone we have but they have no depth and both their clutch players are poor shooters. That’s the big difference with Kobe and Lebron/Dwade, they all three can drive to the hoop and finish but only Kobe can shoot the lights out as well.
Well Toronto doesn’t have a star but we have a very deep team, we’re young and hungry. For some reason as a fan, this is more exciting than I thought it would be and it feels like it is us against the world. Go Raps.
Gotta love the effort and we must keep improving. But this group has more potential than last years team because soft, skilled and slow are not a winning combination. Young, tough and athletic seems much better.
honestly, who *is* a Heat fan anyway?
those 200 people that showed up to the games (and weren’t given free tickets by someone promoting a new nightclub in South Beach)?
agree with milkthaniel
too much hate on bargs. fact is, if bargs wasnt on our first line, we’d be down 20 points by the half. and you can run and tell that, homeboy.





























