Talking Peja Stojakovic and Jerryd Bayless with At The Hive
With a day off in Raptors' action, the HQ talks to "At the Hive," SB Nation's New Orleans Hornets blog, regarding the recent trade...
Can Jerryd Bayless be a significant player in this league.
To me, that's really what Bryan Colangelo's latest trade comes down to.
As NB'eh's Devin Dignam posted yesterday, there's no question the Toronto Raptors gave up the better players in the short term, and while financially it gave Toronto more long-term flexibility, no one can say for certain if the Raps are better off for making this trade at this point.
However should Mr. Bayless develop with the Raptors, suddenly things would look a lot different.
So what are the chances of that?
Well for starters, as our buddy at BlazersEdge (and now CBS Sports), Ben Golliver, pointed out in his talk with Holly MacKenzie recently, Bayless may be a much better fit in a Toronto offense that plays at a much faster pace. And while on paper to Ben's point, it doesn't look like there are starters' minutes available, I'm going to disagree a bit. If Jose Calderon struggles to contain opposing lead guards game after game, and continues to struggle with his shot (Jose's shooting under 40% from the field on the season), then we might see a situation where Bayless starts games, but Jose plays in crunch time and gets the bulk of the minutes.
But I do agree that his upside is largely based on opportunity here, and you've gotta worry that Triano buries him on the bench regardless of how he looks in spot minutes. (See Wright, Julian, Dorsey, Joey, Weems, Sonny until recently.)
To get another take on Bayless, as well as Peja, I fired over a few questions to Rohan from "At the Hive" and I answered some queries he had:
1) RaptorsHQ: How much did you get to see of Jerryd Bayless and what's your take on him in terms of upside and future in this league?
At The Hive: I've always been a Bayless fan since his Portland days. I never saw too much of him, but I knew he was a pure scorer that could get to the line frequently. When he came to NOLA, the team tried to make him a pass first guy. His assist rates did increase significantly, but he also turned the ball over way too often as a result.
I think he could be the ultimate change of pace guy off the bench, but it needs to be as a combo guard. He'll find success when a team lets him play to his natural skill set. For me, his ceiling is a guy like Jason Terry. They have very different games (JET shoots jumpers, Bayless gets layups and free throws), but I think Bayless could have a JET-like impact on games- an extra guy that defenses have to game plan for and a tough matchup.
2) RHQ: How much does Peja have left in the tank or should Raptors' fans view this as strictly a "future cap room" transaction?
@tH: He can still shoot (obviously). I think given the chance, his back to the basket game will still be there. The real issues are defense and rebounding... those two things alone could render him a future cap room guy.
3) This Raptors' team is finally making way for a youth movement so would either player be a problem if they didn't get minutes on a nightly basis?
@tH: Peja: no way. He's been the ultimate professional in NOLA. He comes to work every day, does what's asked of him, and that's that. There won't be any issues there. I can't see Bayless getting overly worked up about it either. But he's more of an emotional guy, and it's really been a tough couple months for him already.
Bonus question) Can we have Marco Belinelli back now?
So general consensus on Bayless to this point?
Probably that Bayless is truly a combo guard and while he's perhaps been underutilized, he simply isn't a solid option as a starting point guard because of his passing issues.
Having seen Bayless up close in Vegas for two straight summers, I'd agree. He dominated Summer League using his scoring and athletic abilities, but he was still prone to bad turnovers and decisions as the Blazers' lead guard. Indeed he's probably better suited as a change of pace guard off the bench but I still wonder if his defensive abilities, competitiveness, and ability to get to the free throw line won't get him a look in the starting unit at some point. According to 82games.com, Bayless draws fouls on nearly 16% of his offensive possessions, a number that would put him slightly behind only DeMar DeRozan and Amir Johnson on this current squad, and something that would be a huge asset to the club.
However playing time is still the key piece in my books.
Without significant minutes I'm not sure we'll ever really know what Bayless can do, and while I'm not convinced he'll ever be much more than a Bobby Jackson type, we won't even know that if he's strapped to the pine.
Tomorrow night Raptors' fans will get their first chance to potentially see Bayless in action (as well as Peja), and the HQ will be at the game via media access to talk to the newest Raptors.
Hopefully we'll get a chance to have a good chat with Jerryd, but even more importantly, hopefully Jerryd will get a chance to make himself a permanent fixture in this rotation as the season progresses.
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Did your friend kindly refuse to answer the bonus question?
or did he give you the finger and hung up?
Ha…no, he responded by asking how “JuJu” (Wright) was making out ha ha…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Nov 23, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for this
I like the trade overall, especially for the financial flexibility that it provides. That can be very useful in a rebuilding situation as some of OKC’s moves have shown.
My main negative regarding the trade is that the guys coming are basically duplicating skill sets that the Raptors already have on the roster. Bayliss sounds an awful lot like Barbosa, minus the experience and wingspan, while Stojakovic doesn’t seem to provide anything that the Raptors aren’t already getting from Kleiza. On the plus side, Rohan’s comments about Peja’s professionalism are reassuring(he sounds like a good replacement for Banks in that respect). And finally, with a young guy like Childress you just never know what he might be able to do when given an opportunity. Exhibit A for this being the Raptors very own Sonny Weems.
sorry, you lost me,
what does Childress have anything to do with this?
D’Oh, name mix-up. Childress=Bayless.
What I meant, in a shorter form, is that Bayless sounds a lot like Barbosa to me and Peja seems a lot like Kleiza. This would make them great injury replacements for eachother. However, other than depth and potential I don’t think these guys bring new skills to the team.
while Stojakovic doesn’t seem to provide anything that the Raptors aren’t already getting from Kleiza
A .44 3pt % vs a .25 3pt % this year is what I see as different. Kleiza’s 3pt shooting should improve over the season but right now it’s not very good. I’m not advocating giving Peja lots of playing time, but 3pt shooting is something the current Raptors are not great at (Bargnani excepted) right now, and this is one thing that Peja can still do.
he sounds like a good replacement for Banks in that respect
In terms of his role of sitting on the bench and being ready to go every game, I agree. I thought Banks did a good job at his 3rd string PG role in that he was ready, and you never heard a peep out of him because of lack of playing time. Yes, he is drastically overpaid, but I can’t blame him for signing that contract.
You are right that Peja’s shooting form seems to be better than Kleiza’s right now. He can certainly be useful for spot duty, especially considering that Kleiza has been in and out of the line-up so far this year. I’d like to see Wright getting more minutes, so I don’t want to see too much of Peja out there.
Agree with you on Peja – he is a better shooter, but probably a worse defender and rebounder, than both Kleiza and Wright. Add in the youth factor, and he should not get more than 5-10 minutes a game max.
Disagree about Bayless though. With Barbosa injured, and likely being moved later this year, I think him simply being a replacement for Barbosa is good enough. Plus, I do see more upside in him – so it seems like a good move to me.
by dhackett1565 on Nov 23, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I like the idea of buying low on Bayless in hopes that he might be a diamond in the rough, so I am totally fine with the trade. I also agree that Bayless would be a fine guy to try as a replacement for Barbosa. I just don’t see them necessary complimenting eachother on the court and I think it might be hard to work them both into the rotation. Now if Barbosa goes for surgery or is traded then that is all a moot point and the Bayless acquisition makes that much more sense.
Barbosa
is not really expensive and still quite young. Moreover he is possibly a veteran, as he has been there and done that with the suns. I am not sure I share your hurry to trade him
re: Barbosa
If they put a premium on existing role model’s I think Jarrett Jack would still be here. I think (hope) that BC realizes that even the expansion era Raptors had a few long in the tooth vets we helped give the team some direction and professionalism during times of turmoil. That being said, I don’t see Barbosa contributing in any kind of leadership capacity. From what I’ve read about him, he doesn’t seem like the type.
He also is only under contract for one more season, so he won’t necessarily be around to grow with our young core. He exists in a sort of no man’s land, and on teams that are “accumulating assets” those players, provided they can bare a decent return, are usually shipped out in the name of progress.
Bayless
Currently has trouble with turnovers and making the right pass BUTTTT, with time, like/ similar to Chauncy Billups, can develop these skills and become a damn good starting PG. I don’t agree with labelling a 22yr old guy (combo guard label) who has had limited/consistent opportunities in the NBA.
As for Triano, he coached Bayless for a summer and I can almost guarantee that Triano and Carlisamo (spelling) will give him minutes.
This yr Bayless has looked really sloppy so let’s be patient and not judge in the first few games. He’s gonna be a work in progress for sure but he has some nice natural tools that can turn him into a starting calibre PG.
re: Taking chances on other people's first rounders
I agree, we absolutely have to take this chances, as another potential avenue towards augmenting the existing core of Raptors. Belinelli couldn’t keep a spot in the rotation, turned him into Wright, who adds some height and size on the wings. These second looks on players still on rookie deals are worth the effort to figure out whether anything other then their talent was keeping them from taking a role in the NBA.
On a different note, recently read that Joey Graham replaced Jamario Moon in the starting lineup of the Cleveland Cavs. And with Anthony Parker at the 2 guard, they are a Kapono trade away from one heck of a pathetic wing minutes battle.
I wouldn't mind...
…using Bayless to slow down a hot PG while letting Barbosa bring the ball up from the 2…
A mix of Bayless, Barbosa, Kleiza, Amir and Bargnani (until Ed Davis breaks out) would be very effective IMO…
Funny enough I think the weakest link on defense there is Kleiza, leaving Amir to pick up the rotations which may get him in foul trouble in a hurry… If Kleiza is matched up with a speedy SF I would sub him for Wright or Weems…If he’s got a banger, let him bang…
That’s an interesting combination, but I think a big guard would score at will against that line-up. Neither Barbosa(size) or Kleiza(speed) would be able to contain them. This line-up would probably have to play zone defense.
It’s worked fairly well so far this year, and Triano hasn’t been afraid to use it in stretches, so I don’t think that having to use zone will affect whether that lineup gets minutes.
by dhackett1565 on Nov 23, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
If they did play zone with this line-up at least they would have footspeed at the guard position to close out on 3-pt shooters.
And keep in mind...
this is the “B-Unit” so they would be squaring off more against the less talented players from the other team… less likely to be getting scorched…
re Bayless potential
Barbosa has a 2 year window @ $7mil per and is 27 now, then what ??.
Bayless is 22 and at $2.2 and $3mil, then a RFA has a window to improve and replace LB, if he is unable to develope the passing, playmaking PG skills.
re Peja
He brings someting that Raptors do not have except Bargnani, a reliable 3pt shooter who can open space in the post for Sonny, DeMar and Andrea. As a team shooting .296 from three is not acceptable, and have not had a reliable shot maker since AP left. In todays NBA it is a big weapon not in the Rap’s arsenal.
Peja
I agree with Johnn as well. I don’t think he’ll be a game changer, but I’d rather see Peja jacking up threes over Weems any day.
I would love to see Weems and DeRozan staying after practice to learn how to nail threes from Stojakovic.
by DW19 on Nov 23, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The weapon that should be in the Raptors’ arsenal is a top-three draft pick in 2011.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 23, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
A fools gold that draft
ask the clippers. The draft really can go either way, its def better to have a top 3 pick than a bottom 3 pick but too much weight is put on that bec u could easily draft a dud at 1-3 just the same as u can draft a stud at 13-15. It’s truly a lottery and I don’t consider the lottery a weapon, it’s more of lottery ticket than can land u a million bucks or a few dollars down the drain.
+1
I agree completely. I am in the minority in the thinking that dedicating a whole season to try and get a top three pick is a waste of time. It’s also not indicative of a good franchise.
How have every one of our top picks fared thus far?
Play to win. That’s it. If your franchise can’t build a winner without a top pick, they aren’t going to magically figure it out when they get one. See Bosh, Stoudamire, MacGrady, Lebron (By the way how’s Cleveland doing now?)… etc. etc..
re: Draft
Seen alot of people citing the Clippers recently as an argument against not “playing to win”? The Clippers play to win just like any other NBA team. They just happen to be so dysfunctional that they can’t even translate good drafting position into success. Citing the Clippers as a reason against utilizing a tool like the draft, is like citing the Knicks as an argument for adding pieces via free agency. Without foresight and good evaluation skills you end up with gems like Baron Davis and Eddy Curry.
There are no guarantees with a top three pick. But your odds of drafting an all=star calibre player are MUCH higher then being in the low lottery. Pretty sure there is an article about NBA success vs draft position somewhere on Draftexpress, though I can’t cite it offhand.
Due to the physical requirements and skills required to even set foot on an NBA court, we’re picked from a fairly limited pool of the general population, let alone college basketball. Add in the limited roster size and its imperative that you take chances on talent that has both the physical and mental makeup to make a serious impact on your team. Thinking that your work is done once you’ve “hit the jackpot” is the problem that Toronto ran into with Bosh. Had they had more talent that Bosh could grow with, who’s to say that one of the second tier of nba free agents wouldn’t have come north of the border?
re: Cleveland
They designed their entire team around Lebron, and did have some regular season success. They did put themselves in a bad position post-Lebron / didn’t seem to adequately hedge their bets when it came to hoarding draft picks. One thing I can’t fault them for is not taking chances to maximize what could potentially be a limited amount of time with a once in a generation type player.
re: Build a Winner
Not everyone can be Boston, the way that all came together still seems equal parts luck and skill on the part of Ainge. Being in the right place at the right time, while having a Paul Pierce (whom they drafted). If Pierce isn’t there, Garnett doesn’t agree to go and sign an extension. No way, no how.
Look at the Nets and Clippers
Even if the raptors sucked all season, it doesn’t help their fortunes… look at all the loses the nets had last year, and Washington ended up with Wall… the lottery is, as said by member 29, fools gold… your better off letting your young guys to learn how to win together, and build a nucleaus of young guys that want to succeed together, then trying to lose games, and how that effects young players confidence.
I have to say
I don’t see any issues with this trade. It was clear that the Jose/Jack combo wasn’t working. Although I would have probably dropped Calderon, he has been showing improvement. Banks is Banks, and I couldn’t stand Anderson. Another soft shooting “big man”. This looks like a win win, to me, long term and even short term. They beat the Celtics with all three of these guys already out the door. Things can only get better… For the first time all season, I feel optimistic.
I think we were better off in the deal franchise. Jack has alkready reached his celing, while Bayless uis not even near the surface in terms of his abilities. Watrch for the raptors to be the next OKC Thunder with their young core winning and taking it to the old fogies of the NBA.
by Jeffrey Thompson on Nov 23, 2010 11:46 AM EST reply actions
We need a couple more studs...
to be able to compare ourselves with OKC. Westbrook and Durant are stars and Green is very good. not quite….
re Performance in a game
For all the Bargnani commenters on his game in Washington 3/13 2rb, 2ast, 12 Pts consider the following:
DWade “Superstar & Franchise player” at home vs Indiana, 1/13fg, 1/5ft, 5ast, 5to’s, 3pts as Miami, the super team with the 3 kings was spanked at home 93-77.
So what? This is the NBA, where talented players on each team want to win, on any given night anything can happen in any game. LBJ had 25 pts, 5rbs, 5ast, and CB had 21pts 11rbs, and the bench scored only 4 points. IT’s a TEAM GAME !
On any given night individual performance can vary for many reasons, unknown to fans of the game, the team or a player.
Good point
One nice thing about this years Raptors is that despite their struggles they seem to be still enjoying themselves due to their hard work and their us against the world mentality.
Thank you and FINALLY
I’ve been saying this for so long, we have a tendency to throw players under the bus, Bargs in particular when they have a few bad games or even 1 horrible game but even the mega superstars have off nights and periods where their production is down. We are way too hard on Bargs. I think he is a good player but slightly flawed on the defensive end and I’ll take that any day over Loren Woods, Rafael Araujo, Sharone Wright , Primoz Brezec, Pape Sow and the many other shitty centers we’ve had. I would love for Bargs to be traded and have to listen to us criticize BC for not having one good big on the roster.
wouldnt it be nice to have roy hibbert to play alongside bargs? lol all kidding aside, i love how this team is playing and excited for the future of our young and coming players
Bayless was Indiana's pick at #11 just after Brook Lopez by NJ at #10
and he was in that 2nd tier of Guards taken after D.Rose, Oj Mayo and Westbrook….
Pick traded to Blazers for Brandon Rush #13….
PG position is like a car’s gearbox (known in america as transmission). When you have the ability to switch out transmissions in race cars at will – it makes rough terrain easier – and higher top speed possible on smooth roads…
(s’cuse the metaphor) – but Calderon, Barbosa and Bayless will be interesting transmissions to ‘switch-up’ with – considering how much of a bowling ball impression Bayless can perform… hopefully for strikes…
Winning the Lottery
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In these debates about a Raptor direction, and securing a top three pick, you have to look at the odds. A third overall worst team going into the 2011 draft, with some bad luck, can pick as low as 6th. Although the odds are slim for 6 itself.
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To aim for that next draft now, means giving up the fight – discreetly or not. Which is counter to what defines this current version of the Raptors. One of the advantages of this young team, is the hustle and energy. With talent that may be raw, inexperienced, and subject to mistakes, it still manages to compete. Tanking – consciously or not – would give this current group, bad habits.
As for “missing out” on a draft, by being mediocre – not sure what the definition of that is – the Raps already have that draft pick. Ed Davis, who was rated 5th by some. I doubt the Raptors would be fortunate to even get a 5th pick in 2011. Probably 10th, or even worse. Unless the Lottery Gods pull one out – a 3 or 4 % chance – the Raps might end up landing in 12th place – and the pick will be more about need. And that doesn’t always work out. A draft can be a crap-shoot. And tanking is not worth the price of agony. As luck might have it, a Oden-type pick might happen.
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At it stands, Davis is an extra benefit. He is that draft pick. And if it meant we hit the play-offs, I’ll take that mediocre.
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Agreed
You’re in a competitive business. The people in this pro basketball business are competitive people. Who would even consider loosing intentionally?. This talk the last few weeks about intentionally" tanking" has been nonsense.































